Re: [Tagging] Ski_jump_take_off

2014-01-23 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:04:38PM +0100, Tobias Knerr wrote: On 22.01.2014 21:52, yvecai wrote: 97 sport=ski_jump_take_off, given the number off such facilities in the world can be considered as a massive use of the tag. Should we really change the key even if leisure, man_made or

[Tagging] tag covered questions

2014-01-23 Thread Richard Z.
Hi, considering a fairly short way that is partially covered in several places by one or more buidlings: (1) should the way be split in sections and covered applied striclty only to the covered sections (2) or is it good enough to mark a larger section with covered and interpret it to

Re: [Tagging] Ski_jump_take_off

2014-01-23 Thread Richard Z.
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 10:31:51PM +0100, Janko Mihelić wrote: We should try to unify tagging of various sport objects as much as possible. Golf courses are tagged like this: leisure=ski_jumping_hill (over the whole area) ski_jump=take_off (or maybe better, ski_jump=in-run) ski_jump=landing

Re: [Tagging] tag covered questions

2014-01-24 Thread Richard Z.
On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 08:39:12PM +0100, Johan C wrote: It was a bit confusing to me, but tunnel=building_passage seems to be a better one than covered=yes for the situations when a highway is under a building. I think ideally such a building should be split giving the building a different

Re: [Tagging] Wikipedia tag validator

2014-01-28 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 10:25:48AM -0800, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: Keepright has a new maintainer, and will be revived on a new server soon. is there an issue tracker or other possibility to report bugs and issues for keepright? Richard ___ Tagging

[Tagging] Waterway dam tagging issues

2014-01-30 Thread Richard Z.
Hi, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Dam says: * Smaller dams can be drawn as a way Way and tagged with waterway=dam. They will be rendered with a black line. * Bigger dams can be drawn as an area Area and tagged with waterway=dam. They will be rendered with a gray hatching. I think it

Re: [Tagging] Canal banks

2014-02-03 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Feb 03, 2014 at 03:13:23PM +0100, Janko Mihelić wrote: 2014-02-03 Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com: A user has recently amended them all to natural=water water=canal. Is there a specific reason for this? Does it correct any problems or give any advantages for rendering etc?

[Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-02 Thread Richard Z.
Hi, I have significantly changed https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Hot_Spring with the intention to revive the proposal - thanks for any comments and enhancments. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-02 Thread Richard Z.
On Sun, Mar 02, 2014 at 01:28:28PM +0100, Richard Z. wrote: Hi, I have significantly changed https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Hot_Spring with the intention to revive the proposal - thanks for any comments and enhancments. just to clarify, among other changes I

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-03 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Mar 03, 2014 at 01:29:06PM +, Dan S wrote: 2014-03-03 12:53 GMT+00:00 nounours77 kuessemondtaegl...@gmail.com: I have significantly changed https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Hot_Spring with the intention to revive the proposal - thanks for any comments and

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-03 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Mar 03, 2014 at 08:14:42PM +0100, fly wrote: Well, think it might get tricky. I know places where you will find several springs right next to each other. Some are hot, some are warm and some are cold. All have different contents not depending on the temperature. that is fine. The

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-03 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Mar 03, 2014 at 01:53:48PM +0100, nounours77 wrote: I have significantly changed https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Hot_Spring with the intention to revive the proposal - thanks for any comments and enhancments. Dear Richard, thanks for your

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-04 Thread Richard Z.
On Tue, Mar 04, 2014 at 07:35:02AM +0700, Dave Swarthout wrote: Speaking as a chemist, the term sulfuric would imply strong acidity as in sulfuric acid. What you're looking for I believe is a term to indicate if the water smells bad or not. Many hot springs have a rotten egg smell lent to the

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-04 Thread Richard Z.
On Tue, Mar 04, 2014 at 03:50:30PM +0900, Satoshi IIDA wrote: Hi, +1 to Tobias. I feel it needs clarification for this tag scope. I think it was leisure=hot_spring once, and switched to natural=hot_spring. exactly. So the main purpose of this scheme is now natural. Like to

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-05 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Mar 05, 2014 at 10:06:45AM +0900, Satoshi IIDA wrote: So the idea is to have natural=hot_spring - the hole in earth where hot water is comming out I see :) So I prefer to switch the icon from Onsen icon ♨ to another ones. it ♨ maybe to use for leisure/amenity scheme. another

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-05 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Mar 05, 2014 at 11:01:50AM +0100, Peter Wendorff wrote: Aren't volcanos exactly what geothermal refers to, only near or at the surface instead of deep down in the earth? apparently not, I can only direct you to the wikipedia article:

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-05 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Mar 05, 2014 at 09:24:24AM -0600, John F. Eldredge wrote: In what sense is volcanic heat not geothermal? In some sense you could argue that volcanos are also heated by geothermal heat but the details are very different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_(geology)#Heat_sources

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-05 Thread Richard Z.
On Thu, Mar 06, 2014 at 01:56:57AM +0900, Satoshi IIDA wrote: * Onsen without lodging amenity=public_bath leisure=onsen so in this combination which object would you tag with leisure=onsen, the water pool? The same object which is also tagged with public_bath? Looking at

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-05 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Mar 05, 2014 at 12:58:51PM -0600, John F. Eldredge wrote: I don't see anything in that definition that says the heat from within the earth has to be a minimum distance below the surface in order to be classed as geothermal. Volcanism is a subset of geothermal, where the hot material

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-06 Thread Richard Z.
On Thu, Mar 06, 2014 at 01:15:13AM +0100, Peter Wendorff wrote: Hi Richard, Am 05.03.2014 21:50, schrieb Richard Z.: On Wed, Mar 05, 2014 at 12:58:51PM -0600, John F. Eldredge wrote: I don't see anything in that definition that says the heat from within the earth has to be a minimum

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-07 Thread Richard Z.
On Fri, Mar 07, 2014 at 05:45:51PM +0900, johnw wrote: On Mar 7, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: I know of a number of each type of facility that I won't be adding to the map This is for an amenity for a building - like Sauna. not a natural=hot_spring

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-07 Thread Richard Z.
On Fri, Mar 07, 2014 at 12:38:14AM -0800, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: Just saying: Tradition among both cavers and hot springs bathing enthusiasts is to keep quiet about locations, passing the word though caving societies and word of mouth. Why? Because caves and hot springs that become well

Re: [Tagging] Hot springs

2014-03-10 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 01:44:30PM +0900, Satoshi IIDA wrote: John some onsen are not associated with hot springs, but have hot sand instead. Yes, but they are rare case. Most of onsen are hot water bath. So might be represented by adding following sub_tags. bath:sand_bath=[yes|no] ; if

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-14 Thread Richard Z.
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 11:51:47AM -0300, Fernando Trebien wrote: Hello everyone, This is a small issue that came up recently in Brazil. In my understanding, the layer tag has no specific meaning other than to specify a rendering order. The wiki, however, states that it is wrong to tag a

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-14 Thread Richard Z.
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 04:36:26PM +0100, Pieren wrote: On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Jaakko Helleranta.com jaa...@helleranta.com At least OsmAnd renders all waterways with layer=-1 with dashed casing, as if they were underground, which to me makes sense That's clearly a bug.

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-14 Thread Richard Z.
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 04:51:18PM +0100, Pieren wrote: On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: in theory yes. However nearby is a problem as rivers can be very long. Many people simply tag rivers with layer=-1 without even thinking about the fact

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-14 Thread Richard Z.
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 04:36:26PM +0100, Pieren wrote: On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Jaakko Helleranta.com jaa...@helleranta.com At least OsmAnd renders all waterways with layer=-1 with dashed casing, as if they were underground, which to me makes sense That's clearly a bug.

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-14 Thread Richard Z.
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 03:55:39PM -0300, Fernando Trebien wrote: I don't think you should be required to check the river's layer tag. Validators should do this job for you, it's quite easy to write a rule for that. validators can check for many errors but if you want to change anything you

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-14 Thread Richard Z.
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:34:41PM +0200, Ilpo Järvinen wrote: On Fri, 14 Mar 2014, Richard Z. wrote: On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 04:51:18PM +0100, Pieren wrote: On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: There has been a proposal long ago for bridges to have

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-14 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 12:30:30AM +0200, Ilpo Järvinen wrote: On Fri, 14 Mar 2014, Richard Z. wrote: On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:34:41PM +0200, Ilpo Järvinen wrote: On Fri, 14 Mar 2014, Richard Z. wrote: On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 04:51:18PM +0100, Pieren wrote: On Fri, Mar 14

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-15 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 01:24:07AM +0200, Ilpo Järvinen wrote: On Sat, 15 Mar 2014, Richard Z. wrote: Therefore, everyone needs now to handle those hardly useful layer warnings about trivial cases (and waste their time on correcting them). even worse, people just apply layer=-1

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-15 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 01:25:16PM +0100, André Pirard wrote: Hi, I wonder why we make bridges split and split and split the roads. do not like that too much either. In reality, bridges are pieces of concrete or stonework at level -1 under an uninterrupted foil of tarmac at level 0. but

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-15 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 02:06:13PM -0300, Fernando Trebien wrote: the validator will only prevent the most obvious errors but will give you no clue how to fix them correctly I know. But two or three rounds of trial and error with the validator should be enough to bring a new user to an

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-15 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 03:19:36PM -0300, Fernando Trebien wrote: Situation 1 happens in many other cities across the world, and if you tag the bridge as layer=1, you may end up inverting the rendering order of highways, leading to this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/138032009 what

[Tagging] building=bridge vs. man_made=bridge

2014-03-16 Thread Richard Z.
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 09:36:43AM +0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 16/mar/2014 um 01:42 schrieb Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com: Also building=bridge is the wrong tag for this bridge why? Let's be cautious with judgements like wrong tag and even more in situations where

Re: [Tagging] surface=ground/dirt/earth

2014-03-20 Thread Richard Z.
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 09:40:15PM +1100, David Bannon wrote: A few months ago, I spent two long days traversing a 250Km section of the Kennedy Development Rd in Queensland. No part of it even approached the grade5 described in tracktype= . There are many other roads, world wide, often quite

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-24 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:02:35AM -0300, Fernando Trebien wrote: On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at wrote: On 14.03.2014 15:51, Fernando Trebien wrote: This is a small issue that came up recently in Brazil. In my understanding, the layer tag has no specific

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-03-25 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 10:38:08PM +0100, fly wrote: On 24.03.2014 20:45, Richard Z. wrote: On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:02:35AM -0300, Fernando Trebien wrote: On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at wrote: As it might be even hard to define the ground level (we

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Coastline-River transit placement

2014-03-29 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 03:44:17PM +0100, Christoph Hormann wrote: Hello, i put up a proposal for specifying somewhat tighter limits on where to place the transit between the coastline and the riverbank polygon at the mouth of a river:

Re: [Tagging] natural=cloud

2014-04-01 Thread Richard Z.
On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 12:25:03PM -0500, Clay Smalley wrote: Sounds about right, but add layer=* tags where appropriate. Clouds go above the land, so we have to make sure they render above everything (except certain bridges and buildings). Might as well add layer=5 to all of them for good

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-04-02 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 10:15:39AM +0200, Pieren wrote: On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Andrew Errington erringt...@gmail.com wrote: I have discovered a bunch of rivers and streams with layer=-1 in my local area. In my opinion this is simply wrong, It's not wrong. It's just another way to

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-04-02 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 03:53:25PM +0300, Ilpo Järvinen wrote: On Wed, 2 Apr 2014, Dave Swarthout wrote: C'mon guys. Tagging an entire river at layer=-1 is simply not the way to do things, unless it is a covered river or one that runs underground. What other possible justification is

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-04-02 Thread Richard Z.
On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 11:21:51PM -0700, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: April 1st aside: the number of important implicit assumptions is relatively small. Rivers under, power lines over, closed ways under except if they're tagged building, etc. Currently this type of layering is implicit in various

[Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway

2014-04-02 Thread Richard Z.
Hi, I have something revolutionary simple in my sleeve for the case where a highway is going over a waterway: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:bridge#Simple_one-node_brunnels_for_way_over_waterway We have been thinking about it for a while and it seems there is some demand which

Re: [Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway

2014-04-02 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 05:59:40PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2014-04-02 16:41 GMT+02:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com: have something revolutionary simple in my sleeve for the case where a highway is going over a waterway: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:bridge

Re: [Tagging] What is OSM: a base layer for individual maps, or a fully featured geobased information system?

2014-04-03 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 08:18:12PM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: Problem is that while wanting things to show on the map is a strong motivator for people, it doesn't scale - we are not far from the point where for every feature we add to our main map we have to remove another feature from this

Re: [Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway

2014-04-03 Thread Richard Z
On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 06:08:46PM +0100, Dave F. wrote: On 02/04/2014 17:14, Richard Z. wrote: as explained in the rationale the dimensions of the bridge/culvert are frequently only a fraction of the achievable precision. Think of a track crossing a small creek in a forest valley int

Re: [Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway

2014-04-03 Thread Richard Z.
On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 01:53:15AM +0200, Janko Mihelić wrote: Also -1 for the proposal. Rationale in the Wiki says this would save us database space, we would have 2 ways and 1 node less per bridge. Also, that maintaining one node is easier than maintaining 3 ways. Lastly, problem of

Re: [Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway

2014-04-03 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 07:44:40PM +0200, Tobias Knerr wrote: On 02.04.2014 18:14, Richard Z. wrote: On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 05:59:40PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: IMHO there is a fundamental problem to your proposal because you want to connect 2 ways with a node which are in reality

Re: [Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway

2014-04-03 Thread Richard Z.
On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 09:52:13PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 03/apr/2014 um 21:43 schrieb Richard Z ricoz@gmail.com: so again: *** a small creek in a forest valley int the mountains *** Where is your aerial imagery? I want that!! you don't need imagery, you

Re: [Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway

2014-04-03 Thread Richard Z.
On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 09:53:44AM +, Philip Barnes wrote: Whilst I think this is a very bad idea for the same reasons as already given by Martin and Janko. What on earth is a Brunnel? I don't know and neither does google. I have an idea from reading the thread but I wonder how many

Re: [Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway

2014-04-03 Thread Richard Z.
Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 12:07:42PM +0200, Janko Mihelić wrote: 2014-04-03 11:12 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: FWIW, it is not true, we would save 1 way or 2, but the amount of nodes would remain the same, because with the new proposal the waterway would get an

Re: [Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway

2014-04-03 Thread Richard Z.
On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 04:27:57PM -0500, John F. Eldredge wrote: That is my main objection as well. This proposal is to deliberately reduce the accuracy of the data in the name of saving a few seconds of mapping time. nonsense. This proposal is here to improve the accuracy. You do not have

Re: [Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway

2014-04-03 Thread Richard Z.
On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 10:49:56PM +0100, Dave F. wrote: On 03/04/2014 22:04, Richard Z. wrote: A brunnel is a crossbreed of a bridge with a tunnel. It has been used somewhere to describe constructions where it is not easy to decide whether a grade separated crossing is better described

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-04-05 Thread Richard Z.
On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 09:41:56PM +0200, André Pirard wrote: Hi, Regarding normalized layers. If I can believe my eyes, bridges/culverts are under (uninterrupted foil) roads http://www.hdtimelapse.net/content/HDtimelapse.net_City/HDtimelapse.net_City_3290_hirez.jpg: bridge=road-1.

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-04-06 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 11:04:13PM +0300, Ilpo Järvinen wrote: On Sat, 5 Apr 2014, Richard Z. wrote: On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 09:41:56PM +0200, André Pirard wrote: In addition, key:layer *is not* rendering layer/order. One example, a road is going through a forest, both should have

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-04-06 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 10:14:05PM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, On 05.04.2014 21:17, Richard Z. wrote: If the road (for whichever reason, valid or not) has layer=-1 and the forest just the implicit layer==0, the road should still be drawn above the forest. I don't think

Re: [Tagging] simple_brunnel : one node bridge like xing highway over waterway

2014-04-06 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 03:52:42PM -0500, John F. Eldredge wrote: You are being asked, is the word brunnel one you coined, or is it in use already by other people? Pointing to a page you wrote is not an answer to the question. I have used a word I found in the wiki. I did not investigate

Re: [Tagging] direction=forward/backward on nodes ?

2014-04-13 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 10:43:58PM +0200, Janko Mihelić wrote: 2014-04-12 20:39 GMT+02:00 John Packer john.pack...@gmail.com: I have never used this key before because of the drawback you mentioned: There is no editor supporting this tag when reverting a way direction, Does anyone else

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-04-21 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 11:42:34AM +0200, Pieren wrote: On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 1:46 AM, Andrew Errington erringt...@gmail.com wrote: I am using OSMAND for navigation, so it's important to have clear maps. Now that I have downloaded the latest data for this area (which includes my

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-04-21 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 07:06:16PM +0900, Andrew Errington wrote: Should I add layer=-1 to all the rivers and streams again? no, see other email. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-04-22 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 09:53:21PM +0100, Chris Hill wrote: On 21/04/14 21:20, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2014-04-21 20:48 GMT+02:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com mailto:ricoz@gmail.com: Without any additional tags like tunnel=* or covered=*, a layer=-1 river shouldn't

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-04-22 Thread Richard Z.
On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 10:58:35AM +0200, André Pirard wrote: On 2014-04-21 22:20, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote : 2014-04-21 20:48 GMT+02:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com mailto:ricoz@gmail.com: Without any additional tags like tunnel=* or covered=*, a layer=-1 river

Re: [Tagging] layer=-1, rivers, bridges and tunnels

2014-04-22 Thread Richard Z.
On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 10:54:37PM +0300, Ilpo Järvinen wrote: On Tue, 22 Apr 2014, Richard Z. wrote: Layer tag is a *hint* to the renderer, nothing more. the wiki page says The layer=* tag is one of several methods used to describe vertical relationships between crossing

Re: [Tagging] Tagging natural or informal swimming holes?

2014-04-25 Thread Richard Z.
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 11:03:50PM -0700, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: How best should I tag informal swimming areas? These typically have no lifeguard or facilities. An example deep-content site for these types of holes is: http://www.iforgotthename.com/ In OSM is it best to create an area and

Re: [Tagging] Tagging natural or informal swimming holes?

2014-04-28 Thread Richard Z.
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 02:07:15PM +0100, Philip Barnes wrote: On Thu, 2014-04-24 at 23:03 -0700, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: How best should I tag informal swimming areas? These typically have no lifeguard or facilities. An example deep-content site for these types of holes is:

Re: [Tagging] bridge movable vs swing vs swinging

2014-08-08 Thread Richard Z.
On Thu, Aug 07, 2014 at 05:58:01PM +0200, Volker Schmidt wrote: Good old Wiipedia helps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge#Types_of_bridges http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_bridge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_bridge wikipedia is clear on that but if you look at swing bridge

Re: [Tagging] bridge movable vs swing vs swinging

2014-08-09 Thread Richard Z.
On Fri, Aug 08, 2014 at 05:10:26PM -0400, Christopher Hoess wrote: Volker, There was a rather inconspicuous sentence at the end of http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bridge linking to the additional bridge:... keys. I've reordered the introductory material in that page somewhat to make

Re: [Tagging] bridge movable vs swing vs swinging

2014-08-09 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Aug 09, 2014 at 09:21:46AM -0400, Christopher Hoess wrote: On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: thanks, that looks much better now. Would it be fine to add the simple_suspension type (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_suspension_bridge

Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

2014-08-10 Thread Richard Z.
Hi, lots of the national wikis refer to bridge=humpback which is missing in the English wiki, how to add it? Also, should the key:bridge pages really encourage user defined bridge values? Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

2014-08-10 Thread Richard Z.
/covered, from examples section: http://www.travelbygps.com/special/covered/covered_bridge.JPG 2014-08-10 12:33 GMT+04:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com: Hi, lots of the national wikis refer to bridge=humpback which is missing in the English wiki, how to add it? Also, should

Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

2014-08-10 Thread Richard Z.
On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 06:14:24PM +0200, Colin Smale wrote: It is neither constructed with the intention of calming traffic, nor is it intended as any kind of barrier (a bridge is usually exactly the opposite!) Let us not be afraid of using a different tag for what is clearly a different

Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

2014-08-10 Thread Richard Z.
On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 12:41:22PM +0200, Colin Smale wrote: On 2014-08-10 12:13, Никита wrote: I.e they define this tag as subtype of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_bridge [5]. I don't see any real application/use to bridge=humpback. Also, bridge=humpback does not imply covered=yes by

Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

2014-08-11 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 11:00:06AM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Il giorno 11/ago/2014, alle ore 10:30, Philip Barnes p...@trigpoint.me.uk ha scritto: I do not like the idea of bridge=movable. whilst true, it is only useful to routers and looses the diversity of OSM, we should

Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

2014-08-11 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 12:40:57AM +0200, Colin Smale wrote: Hi, http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1263/1186115057_7f88a4aaed_o.jpg looks like a landmark or tourist attraction to me and a narrow single lane bridge. The speed limiting factor on this particular bridge might be that you don't see

Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

2014-08-11 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 12:28:59PM -0400, Christopher Hoess wrote: Hi, As the author of the last big redesign, I'm having trouble understanding some of these criticisms and would appreciate it if people would draw out the critique a bit so I can try to improve things. my criticism was

Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

2014-08-12 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 11:40:00PM -0400, Christopher Hoess wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 5:33 PM, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 12:28:59PM -0400, Christopher Hoess wrote: Maintaining both bridge=movable and bridge:movable=* has at least one useful

Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

2014-08-12 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 09:27:45PM -0400, Christopher Hoess wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Tod Fitch t...@fitchdesign.com wrote: The image reminds me of a bridge, no longer open for traffic, on the old National Pike in Western Maryland. I can see where one might want to

Re: [Tagging] bridge movable vs swing vs swinging

2014-08-12 Thread Richard Z.
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:23:35AM -0400, Christopher Hoess wrote: On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 7:57 PM, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote: For the benefit of anyone looking at taginfo stats in this thread, it's worth mentioning that there's some non-survey-based editing going on:

Re: [Tagging] bridge movable vs swing vs swinging

2014-08-12 Thread Richard Z.
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 09:02:39AM -0300, John Packer wrote: Richard, Perhaps these cases in which the outline of the bridge was drawn is related to this proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/man_made%3Dbridge yes, I am pretty sure it was a desperate attempt to make

Re: [Tagging] bridge movable vs swing vs swinging

2014-08-12 Thread Richard Z.
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 09:06:02AM -0300, John Packer wrote: PS: If you removed these 'bridges as area', you probably should fix that. I have removed the area around this one: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25397414 and filed this ticket as it did not render sanely:

Re: [Tagging] bridge movable vs swing vs swinging

2014-08-12 Thread Richard Z.
, when two or more parallel ways are in a bridge/viaduct, they are drawn as separate bridges. Drawing the area of the bridge would solve that. Cheers, John 2014-08-12 6:26 GMT-03:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com: On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:23:35AM -0400, Christopher Hoess wrote

Re: [Tagging] bridge movable vs swing vs swinging

2014-08-13 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 09:12:07AM +0200, Martin Vonwald wrote: Hi! 2014-08-12 22:57 GMT+02:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com: what else can I do? Maybe it's time to open up a change request for the main map style? The tag man_made=bridge seems to be used worldwide [1] in some - more

Re: [Tagging] bridge movable vs swing vs swinging

2014-08-13 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 09:25:33AM -0300, John Packer wrote: Just noticed that some mappers resort to adding building=yes or similar to make it render at all. Note that bridges that are buildings actually exist. [1] But adding building=* to a bridge when it's not the case would be

Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

2014-08-13 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 06:54:11AM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: 2014-08-11 18:28 GMT+02:00 Christopher Hoess cahoess@gmail.c caho...@gmail.com As the author of the last big redesign, I'm having trouble understanding some of these criticisms and would appreciate it if people would draw

Re: [Tagging] Mapping cave tunnels passable by human

2014-08-14 Thread Richard Z.
On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 12:31:28PM +0200, Martin Vonwald wrote: 2014-08-14 12:25 GMT+02:00 André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com: On 2014-08-14 11:08, Janko Mihelić wrote : Well first, tunnel=yes is obviously wrong. We need to replace this with cave=yes. Other than that, I have no

Re: [Tagging] bridge=humpback ?

2014-08-14 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 11:48:35PM -0400, David K wrote: I support a general tag for hill crests with sufficient vertical curvature to introduce a visibility, grounding, or takeoff hazard. It could be applied to railroad crossings, humpy bridges, or just roads traversing hilly terrain; all of

Re: [Tagging] To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools

2014-08-16 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 05:50:06PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Il giorno 15/ago/2014, alle ore 23:52, St Niklaas st.nikl...@live.nl ha scritto: I would go for building=bridge, since a bridge is a building actually a bridge isn't a building according to standard

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC - nudism

2014-08-19 Thread Richard Z.
i was also thinking about that. i think it is only neccesary if a former nudist place is changed to a place where clothing is expected in some areas nudism is so prevalent that it is a good idea to use nudism=no in places where it is not expected/allowed. In other areas it would not make

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC - nudism

2014-08-19 Thread Richard Z.
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 12:54:21PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Maybe a more generic tag like dress_code would also catch these places? This was already proposed some time ago IIRR. this was already discussed on some talk page - why can't I find it now? :( It could also be

Re: [Tagging] bridge movable vs swing vs swinging

2014-08-19 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 09:12:07AM +0200, Martin Vonwald wrote: Hi! 2014-08-12 22:57 GMT+02:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com: what else can I do? Maybe it's time to open up a change request for the main map style? The tag man_made=bridge seems to be used worldwide [1] in some - more

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC - nudism

2014-08-20 Thread Richard Z.
On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 01:08:25AM +0200, Heiko Wöhrle wrote: Hi everybody, i'd like to readdress an old draft from Xan, that has never been voted but is nevertheless in use. Please feel free to comment the slightly changed proposal:

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC - nudism

2014-08-20 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 08:28:13PM +0200, Heiko Wöhrle wrote: Hi, yes i changed the values because i found the differentiation between customary with prevalent nudity and permissive but not prevalent nudity difficult. But i had a mistake in my description, it should be: designated to

Re: [Tagging] Forest vs Wood

2014-08-20 Thread Richard Z.
On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 06:45:30PM +0100, Rob Nickerson wrote: Hi, Sorry to raise this issue again but it really does need resolving: * for ensuring good data; and * to prevent forest and wood being rendered as the same thing [1] Currently the descriptions in the green box on the right

[Tagging] minus or underscore in attribute values?

2014-08-23 Thread Richard Z.
Hi, another mapper metnioned to me that it is unusual to have attribute values with a minus, like bridge:structure=cable-stayed On the other hand, it is an apporved proposal - what are the opinions on that? Richard ___ Tagging mailing list

Re: [Tagging] usage of maxspeed:practical is described as recommended on wiki

2014-08-23 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 09:08:08AM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:surface#maxspeed:practical for proposed change with 12000 ways already tagged maxspeed:practical and lack of alternatives I would think twice removing any documentation. Richard

Re: [Tagging] usage of maxspeed:practical is described as recommended on wiki

2014-08-23 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 10:55:15AM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: 2014-08-23 10:48 GMT+02:00 Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com: 12 000 ways is really low number in this situation. Surface tag is used on nearly 9 million roads, number of highway=* ways crossed 76 million. possibly it is used

Re: [Tagging] usage of maxspeed:practical is described as recommended on wiki

2014-08-23 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 10:33:16PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Il giorno 23/ago/2014, alle ore 21:08, Ilpo Järvinen ilpo.jarvi...@helsinki.fi ha scritto: How much of such ways that would be a candidate for maxspeed:practical IMHO this is a highly subjective tag that

Re: [Tagging] Wadi vs intermittent stream?

2014-08-24 Thread Richard Z.
On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 02:52:41PM -0700, Tod Fitch wrote: So which is the preferred tagging? If waterway=wadi then I have some OSM editing to do but at least the renderer should be easy. If waterway=stream, intermittent=yes then I need to get some changes done by the project who's

Re: [Tagging] usage of maxspeed:practical is described as recommended on wiki

2014-08-25 Thread Richard Z.
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 10:43:36AM +0200, Pieren wrote: I would modify the section [1] by replacing it is recommended by it is suggested and adding at the end a note saying that a large part of the community consider these two tags -smoothness and maxspeed:practical - too subjective. I have

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