Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Le 22.12.22 à 18:10, Raphael a écrit : I think we should rather decide where the tagging discussion should take place and then announce proposals at that place. the power of discourse, when it 'll be in a "full working state" is that is that it allows a unified communication between the users

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Hello everybody Sorry for joining this discussion late. I think we should rather decide where the tagging discussion should take place and then announce proposals at that place. Currently, there are many places where tagging discussion take place: mainly on this mailing list and on the new

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Based on the feedback I have received I made some changes to theproposal: 1) I added a smallchange in the proposal template to add notes as reminder that useradds the links of discussion on the forum and ML to the proposal. 2) I removed thewords “new forum” and replaced it with community

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Vào lúc 10:44 2022-11-23, Zeke Farwell đã viết: A 100+ message thread on the mailing list is no better than on Discourse.  The problem is people spending too much time writing many long messages, and not enough time reading and thinking.  Much as I would love if everyone could learn to write

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 10:57 AM Matija Nalis < mnalis-openstreetmapl...@voyager.hr> wrote: > I find Discourse work well for short discussions (up to max. 10-15 > messages), but becomes totally unusable on > bigger threads esp. with subthreads (e.g. highway=scramble discussion with > 100+

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:54:42 -0800, Minh Nguyen wrote: > Vào lúc 17:24 2022-11-19, Matija Nalis đã viết: >> Because, someone has to do that summarizing work for extra channels to make >> sense, and it is IMHO only fair that would >> be proposal author (expecting that EVERYBODY will do that SAME

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 10:01:23 +0100 (CET), Cartographer10 via Tagging wrote: >> Question is: did you then collect all the points those extra communities >> made (both those you agreed with, and those >> that you didn't agree with), and summarized them on wiki /talk page, for >> extra period of

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 19:10:07 +0100 (CET), Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: >> the first and foremost reason for the tagging mailing list to exist was the >> desire to offload tagging discussions on a central place, off the other >> channels, because people there felt overwhelmed with the

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

The new forum may be also more capable of handling large volume of posts - you can easily mute threads and entire categories. It's also possible to subscribe to only the first post in a category. Thus, you may set to be notified whenever a new proposal is posted and only then choose if

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

20 lis 2022, 17:06 od dieterdre...@gmail.com: > > > sent from a phone > >> On 20 Nov 2022, at 02:27, Matija Nalis >> wrote: >> >> Because, someone has to do that summarizing work for extra channels to make >> sense, and it is IMHO only fair that would >> be proposal author (expecting that

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

sent from a phone > On 20 Nov 2022, at 02:27, Matija Nalis > wrote: > > Because, someone has to do that summarizing work for extra channels to make > sense, and it is IMHO only fair that would > be proposal author (expecting that EVERYBODY will do that SAME task is both > extremely

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

> Question is: did you then collect all the points those extra communities made > (both those you agreed with, and those > that you didn't agree with), and summarized them on wiki /talk page, for > extra period of RFC? Because if you didn't > (especially if you didn't include things you

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Vào lúc 22:07 2022-11-19, Graeme Fitzpatrick đã viết: On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 at 15:38, Minh Nguyen > wrote: There are some ways to draw attention to a wiki talk page comment in general. For example, if I add {{ping|Fizzie41}} to my comment, you'll

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 at 15:38, Minh Nguyen wrote: > > There are some ways to draw attention to a wiki talk page comment in > general. For example, if I add {{ping|Fizzie41}} to my comment, you'll > get a notification, including by e-mail if you've set that up. If your > comment concerns the

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Vào lúc 18:17 2022-11-19, Graeme Fitzpatrick đã viết: I do have some concerns about the talk pages though. Over time, I've asked quite a few questions on various talk pages, seeking clarification of tag details, or whether this tag would apply in these circumstances etc. I doubt as many as

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 19:21:07 -0800, Minh Nguyen wrote: > Vào lúc 17:39 2022-11-18, Matija Nalis đã viết: >> 1 on twitter and 2 on OSM Diary of proposer. Do you spot the problem here? >> Because I do. > > No one has seriously proposed to make a Twitter announcement part of the > standard

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

On Sun, 20 Nov 2022 at 11:58, Minh Nguyen wrote: > direct interested mappers to the wiki talk page, where hopefully others > can engage as necessary. > I do have some concerns about the talk pages though. Over time, I've asked quite a few questions on various talk pages, seeking clarification

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Vào lúc 17:24 2022-11-19, Matija Nalis đã viết: On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 12:12:22 +0100 (CET), Cartographer10 via Tagging wrote: This proposal makes sure there are 2 required platforms where people have to announce it. That way people have the choice to follow one of the two channels of their

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 12:12:22 +0100 (CET), Cartographer10 via Tagging wrote: > I always had good discussion on several platforms for my proposal. Each > community or person has another view > which I collect this way. Nobody (at least I hope) questions that extra communities (or extra persons

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

It is perfectly OK we use many channels to communicate, as they each have their specific uses. And our new forum [1] is becoming a vital resource of a community project like OSM. Emphasis on community. One person's opinion: in less than a year, our new forum has grown to a place of

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

If it is indeed better (which I personally am not convinced), then why not change the proposal to ask that, in addition to the tagging mailing list, proposal might (or should?) be announced at *as many contact channels as possible* of those listed

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

My experience is that proposals are already announced on several channels other then the current required mailing list. I always had good discussion on several platforms for my proposal. Each community or person has another view which I collect this way. This proposal makes sure there are 2

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Thanks for the reminder, I had a busy week so I didn't have time to change it. Here it is  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Announce_proposals_on_the_new_forum 19 nov. 2022 02:56 van mnalis-openstreetmaplist_at_voyager_hr_prfkut...@simplelogin.co: > This email failed

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Vào lúc 17:39 2022-11-18, Matija Nalis đã viết: That way, maximum reach will be accomplished, and all "people could decide for themselves where they wish to communicate". So instead of say 30 messages on tagging mailing list for some proposal, we can have 5 messages on tagging ML, 2 on

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 at 11:43, Matija Nalis < mnalis-openstreetmapl...@voyager.hr> wrote: > Do you spot the problem here? > Because I do. > Certainly do! Going back to what I mentioned earlier: On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 at 08:21, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > So far, there have been 23 responses to

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Have you managed to do it yet? Could you post the URL, if so? On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 07:06:10 +0100 (CET), Cartographer10 via Tagging wrote: > Thanks for the reminder. I indeed forgot to update the title after i changed > the proposal. Will do that soon. > >> But before we get that far, I

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 08:49:46 -0500, Brian M. Sperlongano wrote: > On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 2:49 AM Marc_marc wrote: >> We can see it with the osm-fr experience: the immature forum has split >> the community, far from federating > > Thank you for clearly describing the root cause of your

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

- if a mailing list user want to reply to a message on the forum, he must subscribe/use the forum Note that this is already happening with some things being discussed both on the forum and on the mailing list without the requirement to post it there. This has also been the norm until now

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Le 14.11.22 à 14:49, Brian M. Sperlongano a écrit : it is better to let people decide for themselves where they wish to communicate. a community split offer a fake "let people decide" : - if someone want to make a proposal, the notification must be send to both channel - if a mailing list

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

"here is the logical error: no the forum does not attract a global audience, it may one day, now it is in test, half of the things do not work and therefore let us leave time to have a functional forum (including by email) in stead of trying to an attempts of discussion where the current

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 2:49 AM Marc_marc wrote: > We can see it with the osm-fr experience: the immature forum has split > the community, far from federating > Thank you for clearly describing the root cause of your objection. In my opinion, it is better to let people decide for themselves

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Le 13.11.22 à 23:51, Brian M. Sperlongano a écrit : The standard for a proposal, which purports to change tagging standards that affect *the entire community*, should be to advertise it as widely as possible. of course, and the current proposal is not needed to "to advertise it as widely

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Le 13.11.22 à 20:40, Cartographer10 via Tagging a écrit : There are quite some people discouraged by the mailing list requirement You regularly use this argument but it makes no sense. So there would be people motivated enough to make a proposal but whose only blocking factor is to post 2

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Thanks for the reminder. I indeed forgot to update the title after i changed the proposal. Will do that soon. > But before we get that far, I recommend that the proposal's title be adjusted > slightly. The current title implies that discussions would start "moving" to > the new forums, which

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Vào lúc 14:51 2022-11-13, Brian M. Sperlongano đã viết: You're using the wrong metric.  The standard for a proposal, which purports to change tagging standards that affect *the entire community*, should be to advertise it as widely as possible.  With the new forums picking up interest and

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

You're using the wrong metric. The standard for a proposal, which purports to change tagging standards that affect *the entire community*, should be to advertise it as widely as possible. With the new forums picking up interest and activity, it is entirely appropriate to say to a proposer

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 at 01:07, Cartographer10 via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > I hope that the current proposal will for everybody. > It possibly will be one day, but at the moment, no, I don't think that we're yet ready to say "You *have* to post there". I recently started a

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

I did actually do something with the feedback. Quite some people advised to require posting on both platforms. The proposal now requires that.  However, the first vote did show that quite some people actually support including the forum in the proposal process. There are quite some people

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Le 13.11.22 à 16:01, Cartographer10 via Tagging a écrit : I didn't receive any feedback on my updated proposal. If you have any, please share it here I have the impression that you have received a lot of it but you simply refuse to listen to it and go on forcing it until it finally passes.

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

It has been discussed with the forum admin here:  https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/moving-to-the-new-forum-for-proposals-and-voting/2940/70?u=cartographer10 He recommends to first start in the tagging sub community. If the volumes get really high, we can request a subcommunity. You can also

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

I support the idea that proposals be posted to both the mailing list and the community forums. Over time we can assess whether one or the other is better. One thing I think is missing is that I would like to see proposals posted to a dedicated space in the forums that can be subscribed to, that

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

I didn't receive any feedback on my updated proposal. If you have any, please share it here. I hope that the current proposal will for everybody. Kind regards, Vincent 6 nov. 2022 09:03 van tagging_at_openstreetmap_org_seblajk...@simplelogin.co: > I have updated the proposal a few days back

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

I have updated the proposal a few days back which I would like to receive feedback on. I removed the transition period and required both the forum and the ML to be notified of a new proposal or vote. One exception I propose is that the proposal should be allowed to be made on behalf of the

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Hello Yves, Yes, I saw that. I also described that forum announcements should be made in that new subcommunity. The reason why I prefer following tags is that I only get notifications for new proposals and votes. If you follow the entire category, you get a notification for every new topic in

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

Vincent, I do appreciate your effort with this new proposal. Are you aware that this week a new category "Tagging general discussion " has been created on https://community.openstreetmap.org ? It's probably better to follow this category