Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright Assignment
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: But OSM does not require copyright assignment, so it is not *directly* relevant. What OSMF requires in the current draft is for you to effectively give up your copyright altogether. OSMF then copyrights the database as a whole, asserts database rights on the database as a whole, and tries to get people to enter into a contractual agreement on the database as a whole. No, it's not copyright assignment, but it's basically the same thing. If you agree to the contributor terms, you can't sue anyone for a license violation, but the OSMF can. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright Assignment
On 01/01/10 17:40, Anthony wrote: On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: But OSM does not require copyright assignment, so it is not *directly* relevant. What OSMF requires in the current draft is for you to effectively give up your copyright altogether. That is simply untrue. OSMF requires a broad copyright licence but not an exclusive one. OSMF then copyrights the database as a whole, asserts database rights on the database as a whole, and tries to get people to enter into a contractual agreement on the database as a whole. No contributor has produced the entire database, and OSMF has assembled the database. And since OSMF are using a broad non-exclusive licence on the database, and you are arguign that for an individual to do this effectively gives up their rights altogether, surely OSMF are effectively giving up *their* rights on the database altogether? No, it's not copyright assignment, but it's basically the same thing. It is not. I've signed copyright assignments, and this ain't basically the same. Unlike with a copyright assignment, when you contribute to OSM you retain your (probably imaginary) copyright and you can licence it to anyone else you like on whatever terms you like. If the salient point of comparison is meant to be that a third party gets to licence work that you've produced in-keeping with the principles that people have agreed to contribute to the project under, then I think it would be more constructive to try and discuss why that is felt to be bad in itself. If you agree to the contributor terms, you can't sue anyone for a license violation, but the OSMF can. Which licence, and what are the advantages to suing in a personal capacity rather than having OSMF do so? - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright Assignment
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: On 01/01/10 17:40, Anthony wrote: On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: But OSM does not require copyright assignment, so it is not *directly* relevant. What OSMF requires in the current draft is for you to effectively give up your copyright altogether. That is simply untrue. OSMF requires a broad copyright licence but not an exclusive one. I didn't say it was exclusive. You hereby grant to OSMF and any party that receives Your Contents a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable license to do any act that is restricted by copyright over anything within the Contents, whether in the original medium or any other. You grant everyone the right to do anything. You're effectively releasing your content into the public domain. And since OSMF are using a broad non-exclusive licence on the database, and you are arguign that for an individual to do this effectively gives up their rights altogether, surely OSMF are effectively giving up *their* rights on the database altogether? No, the ODbL is much more restrictive than a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable license to do any act that is restricted by copyright over anything within the Contents, whether in the original medium or any other If you agree to the contributor terms, you can't sue anyone for a license violation, but the OSMF can. Which licence, and what are the advantages to suing in a personal capacity rather than having OSMF do so? Any license. And the advantage is that who you want to sue might be different from who the OSMF wants to sue. For example, let's say you want to sue Cloudmade... ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:35 PM, Jason Cunningham jamicu...@googlemail.com wrote: This document implies UNICEF doesn't even know OSM exists, which is just as worring as them funding Google's map making Well, has anyone from OSM spoken to them? Is there any kind of outreach program? Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Valuable Tracks found / French + Portuguese translators needed.
Hi Thanks for your offer and sorry for waiting that long. The problem is that i'm also not native english speaker. The most relevant thing is to be kind of course and as native portuguese speaker your words would get automatically more kind than my english text. The most relevant part to ask for is that the owner agrees with the license here: EN: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/ PT: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/deed.pt FR: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/deed.fr Thanks Martin Arlindo Pereira wrote: Hi there, I can help with portuguese translation. What exactly should we ask for? (I mean I know that we need that they release their tracks under a compatible license, I'm asking for the exact words so I can translate :)) Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Maxheight changes
I've just noticed that AlexanderF is changing all the maxheight=2.0 to maxheight=2. In fact he's changing anything ending with 0 after the decimal point to drop the zero. This is not good, he is lowering the accuracy of the tag, which is why they are displayed with a trailing zero on signs. I have sent a message to him, but no answer yet. Does anyone know him so they can ask him to stop and revert his changes? Cheers, Chris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
I've got a trace from today which is significantly out of sync with a path I traced from Nearmap: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-37.880138lon=145.193417zoom=19gpx=594988 The trace looks like I was wandering through the grassy paddock, but I was actually following exactly that northern most highway=path in the bush. So it looks like the trace is incorrectly recorded something like 50m north of where I actually was. Now, since the discrepancy seems to go away on that track a bit further east (later chronologically), presumably the explanation is the GPS data is faulty. Is this common? I'm new to GPSing, so I'm just surprised. It's a Garmin Oregon 550. Is there anything I can do to reduce, or at least detect, such errors? Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Maxheight changes
Chris Hill wrote: I've just noticed that AlexanderF is changing all the maxheight=2.0 to maxheight=2. In fact he's changing anything ending with 0 after the decimal point to drop the zero. This is not good, he is lowering the accuracy of the tag, which is why they are displayed with a trailing zero on signs. I have sent a message to him, but no answer yet. Does anyone know him so they can ask him to stop and revert his changes? I don't why he feels the need to do this, it seems a pointless task, but why do you think it reduces accuracy to remove trailing zeros? 2m =2.0m Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Maxheight changes
2010/1/1 Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com: Chris Hill wrote: I've just noticed that AlexanderF is changing all the maxheight=2.0 to maxheight=2. In fact he's changing anything ending with 0 after the decimal point to drop the zero. This is not good, he is lowering the accuracy of the tag, which is why they are displayed with a trailing zero on signs. I have sent a message to him, but no answer yet. Does anyone know him so they can ask him to stop and revert his changes? I don't why he feels the need to do this, it seems a pointless task, but why do you think it reduces accuracy to remove trailing zeros? 2m =2.0m Yes, but it's a means of expressing precision, 2m could mean 2.4 or 1.5 if you round. Where as 2.0m means 1.95 to 2.04... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Maxheight changes
Dave F. wrote: I don't why he feels the need to do this, it seems a pointless task, but why do you think it reduces accuracy to remove trailing zeros? 2m =2.0m Mathematically, you may be right. But having 2.0 actually means that it is 2.0 m with +- 0.1 m accuracy. Putting it as 2 means it's 2 meters +- 1 m. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Maxheight changes
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:14 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: I don't why he feels the need to do this, it seems a pointless task, but why do you think it reduces accuracy to remove trailing zeros? 2m =2.0m It reduces *indication of accuracy*. There's a difference between I measured that bridge, and it's 2 metres high and I measured that bridge, and it's 2.000 metres high. If the signposted maximum height under the bridge is 2.0m, it should be recorded as 2.0, not as 2. Especially since for such things, 10 centimetres here or there is pretty significant. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Maxheight changes
2010/1/1 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:14 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: I don't why he feels the need to do this, it seems a pointless task, but why do you think it reduces accuracy to remove trailing zeros? 2m =2.0m It reduces *indication of accuracy*. There's a difference between I measured that bridge, and it's 2 metres high and I measured that bridge, and it's 2.000 metres high. If the signposted maximum height under the bridge is 2.0m, it should be recorded as 2.0, not as 2. Especially since for such things, 10 centimetres here or there is pretty significant. Not to mention most signs on bridges indicate 2.0m not 2m. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
Steve Bennett wrote: The trace looks like I was wandering through the grassy paddock, but I was actually following exactly that northern most highway=path in the bush. So it looks like the trace is incorrectly recorded something like 50m north of where I actually was. Now, since the discrepancy seems to go away on that track a bit further east (later chronologically), presumably the explanation is the GPS data is faulty. Is this common? I've experienced the same from time to time. Seems to happen sometimes with garmin devices... when you restart it, it's at the correct position again. I'm new to GPSing, so I'm just surprised. It's a Garmin Oregon 550. Is there anything I can do to reduce, or at least detect, such errors? Start your gps at a known position and look at the map. For eample when you're standing near a road and your garmin tells you something different, restart it. best regards ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
On 1 Jan 2010, at 13:07, Steve Bennett wrote: I've got a trace from today which is significantly out of sync with a path I traced from Nearmap: http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-37.880138lon=145.193417zoom=19gpx=594988 The trace looks like I was wandering through the grassy paddock, but I was actually following exactly that northern most highway=path in the bush. So it looks like the trace is incorrectly recorded something like 50m north of where I actually was. Now, since the discrepancy seems to go away on that track a bit further east (later chronologically), presumably the explanation is the GPS data is faulty. Is this common? I'm new to GPSing, so I'm just surprised. It's a Garmin Oregon 550. Is there anything I can do to reduce, or at least detect, such errors? It is very common for GPSs to give errors for whatever reason. Interference is very common from things like buildings. Newer units are less likely to have an issue. You simply need to go along that track again a few times to get an averaged out reading. Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.ukwrote: It is very common for GPSs to give errors for whatever reason. Interference is very common from things like buildings. Newer units are less likely to have an issue. You simply need to go along that track again a few times to get an averaged out reading. Well...ok. But in this case I have the aerial photography, so I can just trace it, once I know more or less where the path goes. I was just curious if there was a way to detect errors at the time - repeating every trace several times just in case would be pretty inefficient. Anyway, I'll try SLXViper's suggestion. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda
Hi! Am 31.12.2009 14:29, schrieb Anthony: Maybe, but while the supply of people willing to become mappers is limited, it isn't fixed. I took a quick look at GMM, and it looks to me like it's not a bad introductory class for potential OSM contributors. GMM doesn't offer anywhere near as many features as OSM, and given their business model it seems unlikely to me that they ever will. And then, even if they do, there would be nothing stopping someone from contributing to OSM and then importing their contributions additionally into GMM. I believe that GMM can be a serious competition to OSM if it is simpler to use, easier to learn and thus more inviting to the casual newcomer. With GMM you have one way of mapping a simple item e.g. a bicycle track. Everybody can do it in ten minutes, no questions arise. With OSM you have two major tools, a huge load of tags, a wiki, a forum, several mailing lists, three different answers to the question, long discussions, pages of contradictory documentation, plenty of old discussions and after working through all this, you realize that the question has not been resolved yet. I can see how many people would prefer the simple way offered by Google. bye Nop ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda
Hi, Nop wrote: I can see how many people would prefer the simple way offered by Google. I can see that too, and I think it is perfectly ok. We do not have to be *the* world-wide collaborative mapping platform. Offering service to those who like it simple is costly, and I am not convinced that if we have a limited supply of time and money available it would be a wise investment to use that to get people who like things simple on board. I'm not saying these people have nothing to offer; I just doubt whether the whole enterprise would yield more than it consumes. Let Google teach them how to map, and if they grow interested and suddenly desire more (and are willing to accept the fact that being able to do more also means having to deal with more complexity), then they can come to OSM. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Nop ekkeh...@gmx.de wrote: I believe that GMM can be a serious competition to OSM if it is simpler to use, easier to learn and thus more inviting to the casual newcomer. I'm still not convinced that competition is the proper term for it. With GMM you have one way of mapping a simple item e.g. a bicycle track. Everybody can do it in ten minutes, no questions arise. With OSM you have two major tools, a huge load of tags, a wiki, a forum, several mailing lists, three different answers to the question, long discussions, pages of contradictory documentation, plenty of old discussions and after working through all this, you realize that the question has not been resolved yet. Only if you care. If you want simple, you click edit on potlatch, you draw the way, you click on the car until it turns into a bicycle, and you select cycle track. Then those of us on the mailing list write 1000 emails about whether or not you were right, but you probably don't even notice it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda
Hi! Am 01.01.2010 15:48, schrieb Anthony: Only if you care. If you want simple, you click edit on potlatch, you draw the way, you click on the car until it turns into a bicycle, and you select cycle track. Then those of us on the mailing list write 1000 emails about whether or not you were right, but you probably don't even notice it. Not at first. But you note later, when your edit has been changed into something that you don't understand or someone sends you a notice to do it some other way. :-( bye Nop ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda
Hi, Nop wrote: Not at first. But you note later, when your edit has been changed into something that you don't understand or someone sends you a notice to do it some other way. :-( But doesn't that happen with GMM a lot as well? Or that your edit is rejected altogether? Do we really have reason to believe that the average GMM mapper feels more confident (because of the easy rules) than the average OSM mapper? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Maxheight changes
Steve Bennett wrote: On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:14 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: I don't why he feels the need to do this, it seems a pointless task, but why do you think it reduces accuracy to remove trailing zeros? 2m =2.0m It reduces *indication of accuracy*. There's a difference between I measured that bridge, and it's 2 metres high and I measured that bridge, and it's 2.000 metres high. If the signposted maximum height under the bridge is 2.0m, it should be recorded as 2.0, not as 2. Especially since for such things, 10 centimetres here or there is pretty significant. While I agree that we should put in the tag whatever there is on the sign, maxheight=2 has absolutely no different meaning than maxheight=2.0. If something over that height isn't allowed, then it doesn't matter how many zeros you add. If your car is 2.1 meters high, you're not allowed, period (albeit chances of getting caught are very slim, as no ruler could measure it that accurately anyway, but that has nothing to do with the number of trailing zeros on the sign, but with the devices used for measuring). Telling maxheight=2 doesn't mean that cars between 1.5m and 2m have to watch out because they might not fit under the bridge. But on measured numbers, those trailing zeros are important indeed. That bridge is 2 meters high, or that bridge is 2.00 meters high: these sentences do mean different things. I'd be much more confident driving my 1.90m high car under that second bridge. So, numbers on signs about restrictions (maximum speed, maximum height, maximum length, maximum weight...): trailing zeros have no value, as those numbers are exact. Numbers about measurements (elevation, height of a bridge, road width): trailing zeros do have value. Greetings Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
On 01/01/2010 14:14, Steve Bennett wrote: On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk mailto:sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: It is very common for GPSs to give errors for whatever reason. Interference is very common from things like buildings. Newer units are less likely to have an issue. You simply need to go along that track again a few times to get an averaged out reading. Well...ok. But in this case I have the aerial photography, so I can just trace it, once I know more or less where the path goes. I was just curious if there was a way to detect errors at the time - repeating every trace several times just in case would be pretty inefficient. You can check the satellite screen on the Garmin. It should show an estimated position accuracy. Also, you can look at which satellites its receiving. If its locked on to a reasonable number of satellites in a decent spread across the sky, you can be fairly confident in its accuracy. You don't have any sort of WAAS like system in you part of the world do you? That would help a bit. But I'd still agree with Shaun - a single GPS trace is not really accurate enough for adding ways to OSM IMO. I'd say get at least 2, preferably 1 in each direction. If they are close to each other you can be confident its probably accurate. If they are much different, its worth getting a few more traces and taking an average. Though yes, this is not really necessary if you have accurate aerial photography that you can trace from. Craig ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
Craig Wallace schrieb: You can check the satellite screen on the Garmin. It should show an estimated position accuracy. The eTrex often claims 10m accuracy when in fact it is 50m off, so that doesn't really help. Using two different GPS receivers is a good idea if you don't want to survey twice. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
On 01/01/2010, at 17.40, Craig Wallace wrote: But I'd still agree with Shaun - a single GPS trace is not really accurate enough for adding ways to OSM IMO. I'd say get at least 2, preferably 1 in each direction. If they are close to each other you can be confident its probably accurate. If they are much different, its worth getting a few more traces and taking an average. I agree with this. I've noticed on my Garmin device, that if the satellite reception is lost or very poor, the device assumes it's continuing along a straight line using the most recently determined vector. Coming from a different direction, the device might be able to grab better hold of the the satellite signal and give you a better trace. Cheers, Morten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Countering Google's propaganda
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Nop ekkeh...@gmx.de wrote: But you note later, when your edit has been changed into something that you don't understand or someone sends you a notice to do it some other way. :-( 1) I really don't think someone who wants simple is going to check back later to see whether or not the tags have changed. 2) I don't think they're going to care. I know I've had some roads I've made changed from secondary to primary or primary to secondary or something like that, and it doesn't bother me at all. I don't understand the whole primary/secondary/tertiary thing, so I'm happy when others fix my errors. 3) Hopefully that notice to do it some other way is friendly and helpful. If not, it's a whole different problem, which I'm not sure exists. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, Craig Wallace wrote: You can check the satellite screen on the Garmin. It should show an estimated position accuracy. Also, you can look at which satellites its receiving. If its locked on to a reasonable number of satellites in a decent spread across the sky, you can be fairly confident in its accuracy. The Oregon 550 lacks a pictorial representation of the almanac, and only has five bars telling you whether it thinks it has good PDOP or not. Or it might, but as I've had mine 8 days , the same as Steve has, and it is in a menu I haven't found yet ;) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Craig Wallace craig...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 01/01/2010 14:14, Steve Bennett wrote: Well...ok. But in this case I have the aerial photography, so I can just trace it, once I know more or less where the path goes. Though yes, this is not really necessary if you have accurate aerial photography that you can trace from. Of course, how can you know whether or not you have accurate aerial photos if you're not sure of the accuracy of your GPS readings? Aerials aren't always georectified correctly. The more independent sources you have, the better. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
On the Oregon 550(t) you will find the satellite almanac-screen if you touch the five-bars satellite reception indicator. Micha H. On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, Craig Wallace wrote: You can check the satellite screen on the Garmin. It should show an estimated position accuracy. Also, you can look at which satellites its receiving. If its locked on to a reasonable number of satellites in a decent spread across the sky, you can be fairly confident in its accuracy. The Oregon 550 lacks a pictorial representation of the almanac, and only has five bars telling you whether it thinks it has good PDOP or not. Or it might, but as I've had mine 8 days , the same as Steve has, and it is in a menu I haven't found yet ;) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
You can also use Oregon's Waypoint Averaging function to make more accurate positioning of waypoints. But you need to do this at different times (say on you next hiking trip when you cross the same waypoint) for this to be really effective. With couple of accurate waypoints it is easier to detect track inaccuracies. Igor On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Michael Hufer michael.hu...@gmx.de wrote: On the Oregon 550(t) you will find the satellite almanac-screen if you touch the five-bars satellite reception indicator. Micha H. On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, Craig Wallace wrote: You can check the satellite screen on the Garmin. It should show an estimated position accuracy. Also, you can look at which satellites its receiving. If its locked on to a reasonable number of satellites in a decent spread across the sky, you can be fairly confident in its accuracy. The Oregon 550 lacks a pictorial representation of the almanac, and only has five bars telling you whether it thinks it has good PDOP or not. Or it might, but as I've had mine 8 days , the same as Steve has, and it is in a menu I haven't found yet ;) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Maxheight changes
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com wrote: Steve Bennett wrote: On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:14 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: I don't why he feels the need to do this, it seems a pointless task, but why do you think it reduces accuracy to remove trailing zeros? 2m =2.0m It reduces *indication of accuracy*. There's a difference between I measured that bridge, and it's 2 metres high and I measured that bridge, and it's 2.000 metres high. If the signposted maximum height under the bridge is 2.0m, it should be recorded as 2.0, not as 2. Especially since for such things, 10 centimetres here or there is pretty significant. While I agree that we should put in the tag whatever there is on the sign, maxheight=2 has absolutely no different meaning than maxheight=2.0. If something over that height isn't allowed, then it doesn't matter how many zeros you add. If your car is 2.1 meters high, you're not allowed, period (albeit chances of getting caught are very slim, as no ruler could measure it that accurately anyway, but that has nothing to do with the number of trailing zeros on the sign, but with the devices used for measuring). Telling maxheight=2 doesn't mean that cars between 1.5m and 2m have to watch out because they might not fit under the bridge. But on measured numbers, those trailing zeros are important indeed. That bridge is 2 meters high, or that bridge is 2.00 meters high: these sentences do mean different things. I'd be much more confident driving my 1.90m high car under that second bridge. So, numbers on signs about restrictions (maximum speed, maximum height, maximum length, maximum weight...): trailing zeros have no value, as those numbers are exact. Numbers about measurements (elevation, height of a bridge, road width): trailing zeros do have value. Greetings Ben I think some documentation on the wiki says something about use what's on the sign, so if the sign says 2.0 than the tag should be 2.0. Same also if the sign says 6ft9in than it should be tagged such. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
The accuracy shown on your GPS unit is not necessary the actual accuracy, but just a calculated accuracy depending on the signals your unit is receiving. You can experience athmospheric disturbance, plasma-effects, signals reflected off tall buildings, canyon or urban canyon effects, bed satellite constillations etc. If you have SBAS (WAAS/EGNOS) activated you might see an improvement in the signal, but mind that if you are outside the official coverage of such systems you might experience that these corrections are in fact increasing the error. If you have access to other forms of augmentation, such as IALA, make sure that you receive signals from the closest station. Even if you have access to good arial photography, remember that it might be out of alignment, it can be a good advise to gather some good fixes to check the alignment of your photos, this can be several GPS tracks along your trail. The problem of GPS devices drifting off is minimal, though more common in small and cheap devices, in many cases simple augmentation can counter for this, but the built in memory of your unit might also help in adjusting (for better or worse). On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com wrote: You can also use Oregon's Waypoint Averaging function to make more accurate positioning of waypoints. But you need to do this at different times (say on you next hiking trip when you cross the same waypoint) for this to be really effective. With couple of accurate waypoints it is easier to detect track inaccuracies. Igor On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Michael Hufer michael.hu...@gmx.dewrote: On the Oregon 550(t) you will find the satellite almanac-screen if you touch the five-bars satellite reception indicator. Micha H. On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, Craig Wallace wrote: You can check the satellite screen on the Garmin. It should show an estimated position accuracy. Also, you can look at which satellites its receiving. If its locked on to a reasonable number of satellites in a decent spread across the sky, you can be fairly confident in its accuracy. The Oregon 550 lacks a pictorial representation of the almanac, and only has five bars telling you whether it thinks it has good PDOP or not. Or it might, but as I've had mine 8 days , the same as Steve has, and it is in a menu I haven't found yet ;) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Cycleways wiki doc enhanced
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Pieren pieren3 at gmail.com http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk wrote: * But it is documented in ** http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway since a while and is ** about 100 times in osmdoc. The problem with cycleway=lane is that the ** wiki never says clearly if it is for both sides and both directions or ** if it can apply for one side only. ** * I think cycleway=lane clearly implies that there are lanes on both sides, hence why replacing that with cycleway:left= is bad. If there is only one lane, then fair enough to not use cycleway=lane. To me it makes perfect sense to indicate that lanes/tracks are only present in one side, as several examples on the page illustrates (M2 M4 and M5). This is also the case for roundabouts btw. I myself have attempted to stay backwards compatible in such cases with established tags using cycleway=lane combined with cycleway:left=none in Copenhagen. Such tagging will provide renderers with information to represent ways with visible indication of tracks/lanes in only the correct side and routers with information wether a road must be crossed. * 7) You don't make allowance for segregated cycleways ** (tracks/copenhagen-style lanes) that aren't represented as distinct ** ways. ** Is highway=residential, cycleway=track not possible? ** ** You mean for T1 and T2 but with only one way in OSM, right (the track ** is not traced separately) ? I didn't know it was called the ** copenhagen-style. I will add it but not as a recommended solution. ** * The term copenhagen style bike lane is widely used in Australia, seems to be used in New York, and maybe some other places - it's hard to tell. I am indeed talking about examples like T1 and T2. I don't see why it should be necessary to separately trace the bike path if it exactly follows the contour of the road. Just like we don't map pavements and lanes and stuff like that. +1! On the talk-dk list we have had a lengthy discussion on how to best represent such copenhagen style bike tracks. Since nearly every major road in our cities are provided with paved dedicated bicycle tracks aligned closely with their sides, separated by a curb or a curb and a bit of grass, it would add a tremendous number of shadow ways to represent these as separate ways. Making the right connections at junctions is not trivial either; e.g. at each T-junction, you would need separate micro-mapping ways to describe access to the cycle track on the opposite side of the road. In addition, routing software would not be able to suggest a U-turn until the next junction, as there would be no connections to the opposite cycle track. Finally, the concept of being at the same road as the cars would be lost - and routing software would have to tell you to drive left at unnamed cycle track instead of drive left at Oxford Road. The complexity of getting the connections right at junctions and traffic lights with separate cycle tracks where demonstrated well in the illustrations at this (Danish language) page by Morten Kjelgaard: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Da:Cykelstier. Now, imagine the result of adding representations of sidewalks separately as well in order to be consistent. Horror! :-) The outcome of the discussion was by default to represent bicycle tracks/lanes with cycleway=track/lane tags in the accompagning road instead of separate cycleway=highway. The following expressed exceptions were agreed upon and is now pinned out in the Danish guideline ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Da:Cykelstivejledning): - distances where the path/contour of the bicycle track differs significantly from that of the road - distances where the bicycle track is separated from the road by a barrier not easily nor legally passed by a bicycle (a curb is regarded as easily passed). - distances where the bicycle track has a significant distance to the road side (~ 5 meter) - distances where permitted traffic directions of different vehicles can not otherwise be correctly described (this bullet could well be elliminated by the present discussion) - distances where car road and bicycle track properties differs significantly (e.g. paved road and dirt bicycle track) Could a similar guideline be useful for other countries? -- -- Civilingeniør ph.d. Claus Hindsgaul Edvard Thomsens Vej 19, 5. th DK-2300 KBH S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Multipolygon tags removed
I recently added some buildings to OSM that have courtyards, thus added a multipolygon relation to them. I notice now that some of these buildings are not rendering on OSM. Looking at the history, Ropino removed the multipolygon tag from the relation on December 8. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/338011/history http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/357268/history Did I do something wrong with tagging buildings how I did? I think I tagged them correctly and undid these two. I want to understand what (and why) Ropino is doing? Are these mistakes on his/her end, in deleting the tags, and if so, do we have the ability to revert the changeset? Regards, Katie ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multipolygon tags removed
2010/1/1 Katie Filbert filbe...@gmail.com: I recently added some buildings to OSM that have courtyards, thus added a multipolygon relation to them. I notice now that some of these buildings are not rendering on OSM. Looking at the history, Ropino removed the multipolygon tag from the relation on December 8. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/338011/history http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/357268/history Did I do something wrong with tagging buildings how I did? I think I tagged them correctly and undid these two. I want to understand what (and why) Ropino is doing? Are these mistakes on his/her end, in deleting the tags, and if so, do we have the ability to revert the changeset? This is likely because the members of these two multipolygons didn't have roles assigned in the relation and instead had tags role=inner and role=outer -- may that be the editor's fault? That said I believe Ropino's removal of the tag is vandalism either way. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Maxheight changes
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com wrote: So, numbers on signs about restrictions (maximum speed, maximum height, maximum length, maximum weight...): trailing zeros have no value, as those numbers are exact. Not necessarily. Perhaps the number on the sign came from a measurement? E.g. Maximum Clearance: 2.0 Perhaps this is a case of ambiguity between whether the number refers to a restriction or to physical clearance. I suspect this ambiguity is quite common. Numbers about measurements (elevation, height of a bridge, road width): trailing zeros do have value. As I said, the number on the sign may have come from a measurement. I think the trailing zeros should be retained unless there is a specific reason to remove them. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multipolygon tags removed
Hi, Katie Filbert wrote: Did I do something wrong with tagging buildings how I did? I think I tagged them correctly and undid these two. Your version was ok. (The role is optional and meant to make things easier for human editors.) Ropino has made a mistake. His changeset comment translates to *added* multipolygon but in fact he removed the type=multipolygon tag, so I assume that he intended no harm but somehow the script he was using has malfunctioned. (If he was using a script - the last time people complained to him about bot edits it turned out that he did these manually.) I'll write to him and inquire, and help him fix the problem if he needs help. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org wrote: The accuracy shown on your GPS unit is not necessary the actual accuracy, but just a calculated accuracy depending on the signals your unit is receiving. You can experience athmospheric disturbance, plasma-effects, signals reflected off tall buildings, canyon or urban canyon effects, bed satellite constillations etc. If you have SBAS (WAAS/EGNOS) activated you might see an improvement in the signal, but mind that if you are outside the official coverage of such systems you might experience that these corrections are in fact increasing the error. If you have access to When I looked up WAAS on wikipedia a while ago, it appeared that we do have an equivalent system in Australia (although the term WAAS is american), but I'm not sure how to tell whether it's functioning in a given area. I switched the WAAS capability on the GPS on, but again, I don't know if it's actually doing anything. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cycleways wiki doc enhanced
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Claus Hindsgaul claus.hindsg...@gmail.comwrote: The outcome of the discussion was by default to represent bicycle tracks/lanes with cycleway=track/lane tags in the accompagning road instead of separate cycleway=highway. The following expressed exceptions were agreed upon and is now pinned out in the Danish guideline ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Da:Cykelstivejledning): - distances where the path/contour of the bicycle track differs significantly from that of the road - distances where the bicycle track is separated from the road by a barrier not easily nor legally passed by a bicycle (a curb is regarded as easily passed). - distances where the bicycle track has a significant distance to the road side (~ 5 meter) Excellent, agree completely with these. - distances where permitted traffic directions of different vehicles can not otherwise be correctly described (this bullet could well be elliminated by the present discussion) - distances where car road and bicycle track properties differs significantly (e.g. paved road and dirt bicycle track) Not sure about this one. Seems like surface:cycleway=dirt would be perfectly reasonable. I can't think of any examples, but since cycleways and roads tend to be maintained separately, it would seem possible for one surface to degrade to the point where you'd want to mark it as different from the other. At that point, I don't see that it has suddenly changed in status in any major way. But that's a minor quibble. I really like the major cases, and think we should document them in the english wiki. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Not-properly-Open-but-called-Open (was: Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another trunk road query - A495)
Hi, I'm breaking this out of talk-gb and into talk. Richard Fairhurst wrote: Sadly [the openmtbmap author] refuses to open-source his code (http://openmtbmap.org/faq/#i-would-like-to-have-a-look-into-the-style-file-for-mkgmap), which is entirely his prerogative but a shame nonetheless. Maybe it is time for us at OSM to make a distinction between (a) open projects in the sense and spirit of OSM, where scripts, style files, and everything else is open and license-wise available for everyone to look at and build upon, and (b) proprietary projects, whether of commercial or private nature, which we are still happy to have using our data and which we will still linkt to and all, but which we do not consider part of the family. We cannot, and do not want to, trademark the words open, free and the like, but I think we could be a little bit more assertive about whom we consider to be a kindred spirit and who is doing his own thing, and apply the tiniest amount of pressure for people to upgrade from (b) to (a). I think many of us will be surprised how many cool OSM projects actually fall into the (b) category. To make it absolutely clear, this is not about forcing anyone to do anything, about licenses or anything - it is just about saying loud and clear what we like, and giving those who do what we like a pat on the back while telling those who don't that we would respect their great work even more if they were open like us. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multipolygon tags removed
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Andrzej Zaborowski andrew.zaborow...@intel.com wrote This is likely because the members of these two multipolygons didn't have roles assigned in the relation and instead had tags role=inner and role=outer -- may that be the editor's fault? That said I believe Ropino's removal of the tag is vandalism either way. Having role=inner as the tag seemed to work, though I see that what I did was not really correct. I see how it's been changed to put this on the relation itself. (assume you or someone changed it - thanks!) To help people understand how to do this with Potlatch, I posted an example on the wiki. (please improve or correct if I said anything wrong there) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:multipolygon#Potlatch_example Regards, -Katie ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Multipolygon tags removed
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Your version was ok. (The role is optional and meant to make things easier for human editors.) I think it might have been okay, but I didn't tag it in the best way. Ropino has made a mistake. His changeset comment translates to *added* multipolygon but in fact he removed the type=multipolygon tag, so I assume that he intended no harm but somehow the script he was using has malfunctioned. (If he was using a script - the last time people complained to him about bot edits it turned out that he did these manually.) I'll write to him and inquire, and help him fix the problem if he needs help. Thanks. I assumed it was a script and there is some bug that caused these edits. Regards, Katie Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Maxheight changes
2010/1/2 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 2:39 AM, Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com wrote: So, numbers on signs about restrictions (maximum speed, maximum height, maximum length, maximum weight...): trailing zeros have no value, as those numbers are exact. Not necessarily. Perhaps the number on the sign came from a measurement? E.g. Maximum Clearance: 2.0 Perhaps this is a case of ambiguity between whether the number refers to a restriction or to physical clearance. I suspect this ambiguity is quite common. This came up some time ago, there was a thread about maxheight and maxheight:physical and I think the majority of the time signs indicate the legal clearance. You can see this clearly if you find a bridge that is sloped, like one near here has 5.0m on both side even though you could clearly have half a metre more on the higher side. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
2010/1/2 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: When I looked up WAAS on wikipedia a while ago, it appeared that we do have an equivalent system in Australia (although the term WAAS is american), but I'm not sure how to tell whether it's functioning in a given area. I switched the WAAS capability on the GPS on, but again, I don't know if it's actually doing anything. There is no GPS augmentation system in Australia, the closest one is in Japan. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
2010/1/2 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: Even if you have access to good arial photography, remember that it might be out of alignment, it can be a good advise to gather some good fixes to check the alignment of your photos, this can be several GPS tracks along your trail. I'm pretty sure the imagery he's refering to is nearmap.com, which I'm not sure how they manage it exactly but they seem to be about sub-metre accuracy... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Not-properly-Open-but-called-Open (was: Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another trunk road query - A495)
2010/1/2 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Maybe it is time for us at OSM to make a distinction between (a) open projects in the sense and spirit of OSM, where scripts, style files, and everything else is open and license-wise available for everyone to look at and build upon, and (b) proprietary projects, whether of commercial or private nature, which we are still happy to have using our data and which we will still linkt to and all, but which we do not consider part of the family. As a proud member of the (a) category[1], I'm all for it :) Cheers Colin 1 - http://mapnik-utils.googlecode.com/svn/sandbox/cascadenik/hike_n_bike/, http://gitorious.org/alpha-hillshading/alpha-hillshading/trees/master ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Not-properly-Open-but-called-Open
Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, I'm breaking this out of talk-gb and into talk. Richard Fairhurst wrote: Sadly [the openmtbmap author] refuses to open-source his code (http://openmtbmap.org/faq/#i-would-like-to-have-a-look-into-the-style-file-for-mkgmap), which is entirely his prerogative but a shame nonetheless. Maybe it is time for us at OSM to make a distinction between (a) open projects in the sense and spirit of OSM, where scripts, style files, and everything else is open and license-wise available for everyone to look at and build upon, and (b) proprietary projects, whether of commercial or private nature, which we are still happy to have using our data and which we will still linkt to and all, but which we do not consider part of the family. I think it's high time this was done. IMO, OCM should be removed from the main map options asked persuasively to rename themselves as they're not really open, are they? Fredrick - I think this needs a separate new topic. Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Not-properly-Open-but-called-Open
Colin Marquardt wrote: As a proud member of the (a) category[1], I'm all for it :) Cheers Colin 1 - http://mapnik-utils.googlecode.com/svn/sandbox/cascadenik/hike_n_bike/, http://gitorious.org/alpha-hillshading/alpha-hillshading/trees/master Err.. Sorry Colin, I read the readme other files but it looks like gobbledy-gook to me. Is there an explanation anywhere of what these do? Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
2010/1/2 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: When I looked up WAAS on wikipedia a while ago, it appeared that we do have an equivalent system in Australia (although the term WAAS is american), but I'm not sure how to tell whether it's functioning in a given area. I switched the WAAS capability on the GPS on, but again, I don't know if it's actually doing anything. There is no GPS augmentation system in Australia, the closest one is in Japan. we will have to disagree on this one. skim to the fifth page of this pdf to find the first listed AU stations http://www.beaconworld.org.uk/files/worldDGPSfreqorder.pdf These of course are the free (unencrypted ones). Encrypted broadcasts are used by surveying firms, and won't be listed. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 11:49 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: 2010/1/2 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: Even if you have access to good arial photography, remember that it might be out of alignment, it can be a good advise to gather some good fixes to check the alignment of your photos, this can be several GPS tracks along your trail. I'm pretty sure the imagery he's refering to is nearmap.com, which I'm not sure how they manage it exactly but they seem to be about sub-metre accuracy... Than they have done a hell of a job on aligning the fotos, cudos to them. I know that Yahoo imagery varies from less then 1 meter to at least 30 meters on the hi-res, havn't seen nearmap, and as I understand its only for Australia, so I would not have any data to compare with. As far as I know IALA have coverage also in Australia, and I am sure that you can get HF also, though it might inicate stations far away (IALA have a range of about 150km, HF roughly 1000km), these two systems are focused on shipping, so I would guess augmentation stations and transmitters are located along the coast. So saying that Australia have no augmentation systems are plain wrong. Now the question is rather if your handheld device supports IALA. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 6:49 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: 2010/1/2 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: Even if you have access to good arial photography, remember that it might be out of alignment, it can be a good advise to gather some good fixes to check the alignment of your photos, this can be several GPS tracks along your trail. I'm pretty sure the imagery he's refering to is nearmap.com, which I'm not sure how they manage it exactly but they seem to be about sub-metre accuracy... Where are you getting that sub-metre accuracy claim from? This thread ( http://www.mail-archive.com/talk...@openstreetmap.org/msg03414.html), which you contributed to, throws out 3-5 meters, 1-4 meters, and 5 meters or so. This seems like somewhere that the wisdom of crowds actually applies. I think I'd trust the average of a bunch of independent GPS traces to a single orthorectified aerial - especially in an area which isn't extremely flat. But I guess I might be convinced otherwise, if I'm actually shown the sub-metre accuracy claim, which presumably outlines the methods utilized to ensure such accuracy. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Not-properly-Open-but-called-Open
2010/1/2 Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com: I think it's high time this was done. IMO, OCM should be removed from the main map options asked persuasively to rename themselves as they're not really open, are they? What do you suggest they rename to? FreeCycleMap? :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
2010/1/2 Anthony o...@inbox.org: Where are you getting that sub-metre accuracy claim from? This thread (http://www.mail-archive.com/talk...@openstreetmap.org/msg03414.html), which you contributed to, throws out 3-5 meters, 1-4 meters, and 5 meters or so. They claim the imagery should be sub-metre, from what I've noticed the differences between different images on different dates are very close to each other. I can't however verify their claim, I don't have anything accurate enough, my claim was a best estimate based on GPS traces... This seems like somewhere that the wisdom of crowds actually applies. I think I'd trust the average of a bunch of independent GPS traces to a single orthorectified aerial - especially in an area which isn't extremely flat. They're planning to re-fly once a month over capital cities and you can access their older images. But I guess I might be convinced otherwise, if I'm actually shown the sub-metre accuracy claim, which presumably outlines the methods utilized to ensure such accuracy. I've cc'd Ben from nearmap on this email, I haven't seen what they do mentioned before. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
2010/1/2 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: Than they have done a hell of a job on aligning the fotos, cudos to them. I know that Yahoo imagery varies from less then 1 meter to at least 30 meters on the hi-res, havn't seen nearmap, and as I understand its only for Australia, so I would not have any data to compare with. Their imagery is a lot better than yahoo, in places yahoo is noted to be out by 20+m, where as nearmap is pretty consistent. They use planes, not sats dunno if it makes things easier or not. As for comparing, you can always use the GPS data uploaded to OSM. As far as I know IALA have coverage also in Australia, and I am sure that you can get HF also, though it might inicate stations far away (IALA have a range of about 150km, HF roughly 1000km), these two systems are focused on shipping, so I would guess augmentation stations and transmitters are located along the coast. So saying that Australia have no augmentation systems are plain wrong. Now the question is rather if your handheld device supports IALA. I didn't think there way, and the only augmentation I've seen is from mobile phone networks... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Not-properly-Open-but-called-Open
Frederik Ramm wrote: We cannot, and do not want to, trademark the words open, free and the like, but I think we could be a little bit more assertive about whom we consider to be a kindred spirit and who is doing his own thing, and apply the tiniest amount of pressure for people to upgrade from (b) to (a). I think many of us will be surprised how many cool OSM projects actually fall into the (b) category. To make it absolutely clear, this is not about forcing anyone to do anything, about licenses or anything - it is just about saying loud and clear what we like, and giving those who do what we like a pat on the back while telling those who don't that we would respect their great work even more if they were open like us. Hm, maybe. But YMMV on what we like. In my view, what matters is someone's _overall_ contribution to OSM, not their unquestioning adherence to the doctrine of free. Faced with one person who makes an enormous contribution to OSM, but chooses to keep one aspect of their contributions closed-source; and another whose main contribution is a lot of wiki voting, but has sent two preset patches, assiduously annotated with some inordinate licence preamble in capital letters - well, I couldn't criticise the former or deny them any respect. And applying pressure rather smacks of that Proper attribution lynch mob. cheers Richard Hey, I managed a whole post about Not-properly-Open without mentioning the GPL. ...oh crap. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trac
Sorry about the formatting on the quoted part. I'm writing from my BlackBerry. IIRC all of the correction stations (WAAS / EGNOS / etc...) are listed at or above satellite number 45 on your satellite / accuracy screen. An easy test is to go to an area with a clear view of the sky and take a reading on a stationary object. Come back to that spot a few days later and remeasure. If your second measurement is off by more than 25 feet (about 5 meters), then try toggling the WAAS option and see if your accuracy improves. If you are near an urban area, search the web for a local Geocaching club and read through their tech forum if they have one. BTW, geocaching clubs are great sources for raw GPS traces. Most cachers own at least one dedicated off-road GPSr with the snap-to-road option toggled off, so there won't be any issues with tracing off of a copyrighted map. On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org wrote: The accuracy shown on your GPS unit is not necessary the actual accuracy, but just a calculated accuracy depending on the signals your unit is receiving. You can experience athmospheric disturbance, plasma-effects, signals reflected off tall buildings, canyon or urban canyon effects, bed satellite constillations etc. If you have SBAS (WAAS/EGNOS) activated you might see an improvement in the signal, but mind that if you are outside the official coverage of such systems you might experience that these corrections are in fact increasing the error. I switched the WAAS capability on the GPS on, but again, I don't know if it's actually doing anything. Steve Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
2010/1/2 Anthony o...@inbox.org: This seems like somewhere that the wisdom of crowds actually applies. I think I'd trust the average of a bunch of independent GPS traces to a single orthorectified aerial - especially in an area which isn't extremely flat. But I guess I might be convinced otherwise, if I'm actually shown the sub-metre accuracy claim, which presumably outlines the methods utilized to ensure such accuracy. Average sub-metre error would still allow for a place or two with 50m error especially over a big area such as Australia, and Steve might have visited one of these places. It would be best to just go there again and see if on the second survey the error is siginificantly lower (or there's still error but the the vector is opposite direction). For example based on GPS traces I can say with some confidence that Yahoo is on average 3m off in my city even though there is a couple of places that are badly mangled. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
Thanks for the comments, everyone. In all my playing with nearmap, I have little reason to doubt their accuracy. There are a couple of little seams here and there, but nothing more than a couple of metres. Giving the way this trace here meanders all over the place, I'm pretty confident that the nearmap data is a safer bet than the trace - but I'll be paying more attention to accuracy in the future. Btw, can everyone actually see the trace in the URL I referred to ( http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-37.880138lon=145.193417zoom=19gpx=594988- then press G)? I'm a bit uncertain about the different privacy settings in Potlatch. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Defective GPS trace
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, Michael Hufer wrote: On the Oregon 550(t) you will find the satellite almanac-screen if you touch the five-bars satellite reception indicator. Thanks, will try it. Later I might read the instructions. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cycleways wiki doc enhanced
Steve Bennett wrote: On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Claus Hindsgaul claus.hindsg...@gmail.com mailto:claus.hindsg...@gmail.com wrote: The outcome of the discussion was by default to represent bicycle tracks/lanes with cycleway=track/lane tags in the accompanying road instead of separate cycleway=highway. The following expressed exceptions were agreed upon and is now pinned out in the Danish guideline (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Da:Cykelstivejledning): * distances where the path/contour of the bicycle track differs significantly from that of the road * distances where the bicycle track is separated from the road by a barrier not easily nor legally passed by a bicycle (a curb is regarded as easily passed). * distances where the bicycle track has a significant distance to the road side (~ 5 meter) Excellent, agree completely with these. * distances where permitted traffic directions of different vehicles can not otherwise be correctly described (this bullet could well be elliminated by the present discussion) * distances where car road and bicycle track properties differs significantly (e.g. paved road and dirt bicycle track) Not sure about this one. Seems like surface:cycleway=dirt would be perfectly reasonable. I can't think of any examples, but since cycleways and roads tend to be maintained separately, it would seem possible for one surface to degrade to the point where you'd want to mark it as different from the other. At that point, I don't see that it has suddenly changed in status in any major way. But that's a minor quibble. I really like the major cases, and think we should document them in the english wiki. Provided that this does not result in REMOVING ways that are mapped - or prevent adding the REAL fine detail of ways that do not actually physically form part of the 'accompanying' road. This sort of 'shorthand' should not replace mapping the real situation on the ground ESPECIALLY where the cycleway ( or sidewalk/footpath ) is not physically part of the 'accompanying' road. NOTHING should dictate that removing physical data is the 'correct' way of mapping! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [talk-au] Wrong way round the roundabout
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au wrote: By contrast, in my suburb of Ruse, NSW (not far from Harrington Park - look it up) there is a major road (Junction Road) through the middle of it, rendered as tertiary, and always coloured yellow in street directories. It's not just the way out of the suburb, it's the way *through* the suburb for people travelling through Ruse from adjacent suburbs. I feel that this is what qualifies a road as tertiary. Ok, so to clarify, a road that leads from outside, into the heart of a suburb, feeding into tiny residential streets - that's tertiary or residential? You're saying residential? And it's only tertiary if it connects two other roads that are tertiary or higher? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MapOSMatic will now do any where...
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 9:13 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: As long as they are tagged properly it's up to the render style sheet as to what renders. Perhaps you could add this comment to your signature and avoid the spam? No offence, but you really don't need to repeat yourself like this. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MapOSMatic will now do any where...
2010/1/1 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 9:13 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: As long as they are tagged properly it's up to the render style sheet as to what renders. Perhaps you could add this comment to your signature and avoid the spam? No offence, but you really don't need to repeat yourself like this. Steve You asked a question, I replied if you don't like the answer that's your problem, however the answer was accurate, there is no reason you can't literally map everything, as long as it's tagged properly if someone wants it rendered they can choose to see it. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MapOSMatic will now do any where...
2010/1/1 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2010/1/1 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 9:13 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: As long as they are tagged properly it's up to the render style sheet as to what renders. Perhaps you could add this comment to your signature and avoid the spam? No offence, but you really don't need to repeat yourself like this. Steve You asked a question, I replied if you don't like the answer that's your problem, however the answer was accurate, there is no reason you can't literally map everything, as long as it's tagged properly if someone wants it rendered they can choose to see it. Or to put it another way, why are you trying to limit what gets rendered by limiting what gets mapped? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MapOSMatic will now do any where...
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 9:31 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: You asked a question, I replied if you don't like the answer that's your problem, No, if you constantly repeat yourself on a mailing list, it's *everybody*'s problem. Everyone here understands that renderers can filter out information. Just like I could reply to every message and say Different people tag in different ways, and that's ok! It doesn't advance anyone's understanding – it's just noise. Whereas this: Or to put it another way, why are you trying to limit what gets rendered by limiting what gets mapped? ...is purely inflammatory. As if I ever suggested limiting anything. Once and for all: My position is that mapping manpower is limited. In an ideal world of unlimited resources we would map everything to the fullest extent conceivable. We'd map every block of concrete to the nearest millimetre, the height of every building, the species of every tree, and the location of every painted line. But since we don't live in that world, we have to make trade-offs, directing our efforts to where they have the most benefit. Obviously different people have different priorities, but it is unfair and antagonistic to suggest that when I propose a certain trade-off, that I'm trying to limit the project in some way. Now, are you willing to agree to this principle, so we can move on, or are you going to continue to accuse me of being too thick to understand how a renderer works, or of trying to curtail the scope of OSM every time I make any suggestion? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Alcohol Free Zones
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Craig Feuerherdt craigfeuerhe...@gmail.com wrote: I know Bendigo has an 'alcohol free zone' which would be useful to capture. Initial thoughts are that it is best represented as a relation, made up of the ways (roads etc) that form the outer boundary. Just need to define a new relation 'type' (Alcohol Free Zone) and 'restriction' (alcohol?). Start/end times may also be a consideration in some places as well. And then, of course, there is the rendering. Why not just an area=yes closed way, that overlaps other ways where appropriate? Most of the edges of the zone will probably be existing ways, like roads and parks, as noticed, but is that always the case? What's the benefit of a relation rather than an area...I guess the fact that you can have a multipolygon? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MapOSMatic will now do any where...
2010/1/1 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: No, if you constantly repeat yourself on a mailing list, it's *everybody*'s problem. Everyone here understands that renderers can filter out information. Just like I could reply to every message and say Different people tag in different ways, and that's ok! It doesn't advance anyone's understanding – it's just noise. Maybe you should ask better questions if you want better answers then. Whereas this: Or to put it another way, why are you trying to limit what gets rendered by limiting what gets mapped? ...is purely inflammatory. As if I ever suggested limiting anything. And also accurate... You are suggesting we limit what is mapped, regardless of the reason, to achieve your desired outcome. Once and for all: My position is that mapping manpower is limited. In an Which is assuming everyone mapping is interested in mapping the same thing you are, what about someone that only cares about trains, are you going to tell them to drop everything and just map roads? that I'm trying to limit the project in some way. In other words you are trying to limit what is mapped to match your ideals of what a map should be... Now, are you willing to agree to this principle, so we can move on, or are How can I make an agreement for everyone, simply put what a map is to me is completely different to what a map is to someone else, what interests me is completely different to what interests other people, if people want to map houses why tell them they can't? you going to continue to accuse me of being too thick to understand how a renderer works, or of trying to curtail the scope of OSM every time I make any suggestion? You seem to have a fairly closed imagination... If you don't dream of what's possible, it never will be... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Alcohol Free Zones
2010/1/1 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Craig Feuerherdt craigfeuerhe...@gmail.com wrote: I know Bendigo has an 'alcohol free zone' which would be useful to capture. Initial thoughts are that it is best represented as a relation, made up of the ways (roads etc) that form the outer boundary. Just need to define a new relation 'type' (Alcohol Free Zone) and 'restriction' (alcohol?). Start/end times may also be a consideration in some places as well. And then, of course, there is the rendering. Why not just an area=yes closed way, that overlaps other ways where appropriate? Most of the edges of the zone will probably be existing ways, like roads and parks, as noticed, but is that always the case? What's the benefit of a relation rather than an area...I guess the fact that you can have a multipolygon? I can understand that there is a similar benefit to having a single set of ways and using them for multiple routes instead of trying to use new ways to describe something, that said I'm still not sure if this is the best way to describe alcohol free zones if they diverge on a way, for example, only one side of the way is an alcohol free zone. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MapOSMatic will now do any where...
Ok, John, I'm adding you to my killfile. I'm not getting anything out of corresponding with you other than frustration, and I'm finding your messages consist mostly of unhelpful stubborn posturing, and too little useful content. I'm sure our bickering is only pissing everyone else off as well. Trying to deal with you has become an unpleasant distraction from the task at hand. If you need to communicate with me, you can ask someone else to relay a message, or use a different email address. I'm replying to the list so that everyone knows why I'm not responding to any future messages from you. All the best, Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MapOSMatic will now do any where...
2010/1/1 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Ok, John, I'm adding you to my killfile. I'm not getting anything out of corresponding with you other than frustration, and I'm finding your messages consist mostly of unhelpful stubborn posturing, and too little useful My answers are perfectly accurate, if there is a flaw in my logic, by all means point it out to me. content. I'm sure our bickering is only pissing everyone else off as well. You are the only one continuing to use expletives, if you were genuine interested in conversing you wouldn't have to stoop to such language, but such is life. Trying to deal with you has become an unpleasant distraction from the task I was replying with gunine answers, you seem to take everything out of context and/or personally as an insult... such is life... at hand. If you need to communicate with me, you can ask someone else to relay a message, or use a different email address. You mean if I want to stoop to looking as childish as you are being by telling everyone you will be sticking your fingers in your ears and going la la la la? I'm replying to the list so that everyone knows why I'm not responding to any future messages from you. Are you still in highschool? To be brutally honest, no one cares who you do or don't reply to. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mapping road closures...
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 5:47 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: The only problem with this scheme is you can't do, first sunday of the month for example. Surely someone in some field has already come across this problem before - i.e. surely someone's already developed a formal language for specification of time/date info? Don't have time to search right now, but if it has been done it would be good to not reinvent the wheel... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mapping road closures...
2010/1/1 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 5:47 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: The only problem with this scheme is you can't do, first sunday of the month for example. Surely someone in some field has already come across this problem before - i.e. surely someone's already developed a formal language for specification of time/date info? Don't have time to search right now, but if it has been done it would be good to not reinvent the wheel... I went to map a church the other day that is only open on the 1st sunday of the month and 3rd saturday and noticed the current spec lacks the ability to describe this. Otherwise for the most part it seems to deal with other common types of opening hours just fine. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mapping road closures...
iso 8601: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 jim On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 5:47 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: The only problem with this scheme is you can't do, first sunday of the month for example. Surely someone in some field has already come across this problem before - i.e. surely someone's already developed a formal language for specification of time/date info? Don't have time to search right now, but if it has been done it would be good to not reinvent the wheel... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://www.google.com/profiles/jim.croft 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap PhotoMap imagery for OSM
2009/12/29 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: Actually, in addition to this, it would be great if you could allow the date to be specified in the path, i.e. allow us to make requests in the form of http://www.nearmap.com/maps/nmd/z/x/y.jpg (where nmd is the date) The problem is the slippymap plugin, it just occurred to me that all we need is an extra parameter added to the plugin that can be passed directly to the code that builds the URL, I'll try and get time to play with the code tomorrow to add this, and if I don't have any luck I'll just file a bug about it. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mapping road closures...
2010/1/2 Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com: iso 8601: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 I'm still trying to figure out if that would cover things like first sunday, third saturday of a month, do you know how to write this in iso8601 format? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mapping road closures...
think it might have to be derived, e.g. http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/vb-date2.htm#Month http://code.google.com/p/datejs/ jim On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 3:46 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/2 Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com: iso 8601: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 I'm still trying to figure out if that would cover things like first sunday, third saturday of a month, do you know how to write this in iso8601 format? -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://www.google.com/profiles/jim.croft 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mapping road closures...
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:33 AM, Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com wrote: think it might have to be derived, e.g. http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/vb-date2.htm#Month http://code.google.com/p/datejs/ That's a shame. But iso 8601 is probably still a good starting point. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] NearMap PhotoMap imagery for OSM
2010/1/2 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2009/12/29 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: Actually, in addition to this, it would be great if you could allow the date to be specified in the path, i.e. allow us to make requests in the form of http://www.nearmap.com/maps/nmd/z/x/y.jpg (where nmd is the date) The problem is the slippymap plugin, it just occurred to me that all we need is an extra parameter added to the plugin that can be passed directly to the code that builds the URL, I'll try and get time to play with the code tomorrow to add this, and if I don't have any luck I'll just file a bug about it. Actually someone already filed a bug with a better idea than I was thinking of making a patch for: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/3983 Then it's just a matter of sticking in the URL similar to how you would in potlatch. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] MapOSMatic will now do any where...
2010/1/1 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2010/1/1 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Ok, John, I'm adding you to my killfile. I'm not getting anything out of corresponding with you other than frustration, and I'm finding your messages consist mostly of unhelpful stubborn posturing, and too little useful My answers are perfectly accurate, if there is a flaw in my logic, by all means point it out to me. Logic is not the only requirement for useful conversation. Assuming good faith is also important, and something that you often don't do when asking if someone has filed a bug or accuse them of trying to limit the project. We're all here because we believe OSM is a great project to work on, there's no need to needle people so much. Trying to deal with you has become an unpleasant distraction from the task I was replying with gunine answers, you seem to take everything out of context and/or personally as an insult... such is life... When you treat someone as though they're acting dishonestly, you can't expect that to be ignored. I'm replying to the list so that everyone knows why I'm not responding to any future messages from you. Are you still in highschool? To be brutally honest, no one cares who you do or don't reply to. I do, as his decision will mean less of your spam on the list (of course now I'm guilty of this, but whatever). James Andrewartha ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-br] Material interessante para o OSM
Olá pessoal, estou começando a me familiarizar com o Osm, no começo estava um pouco complicado, mas pouco a pouco vou me aprofundando mais. Recentemente encontrei um site com alguns arquivos GPS em formato GTM que pode ser muito interessante. Eu converti um dos arquivos e utilizei para corrigir a estrada de Brasília a Unaí e um pouco mais adiante. O site com os arquivos é http://onix.com.br/ivan/gps.htm Para baixar os arquivos, clique em roteiro para converter para GPX, basta usar a ferramente online no site: http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/ O cara que postou as rotas tem um email que está disponível nesse site: http://onix.com.br/ivan/ Se alguém desejar comunica-lo a respeito do projeto OSM seria interessante, (Talvez ele se interesse pelo projeto e comece a contribuir também) Obs: Uma coisa que percebi é que várias estradas estão erradas (totalmente desalinhadas). Essas estradas parecem ter sido importadas do IBGE. Para adicionar a estrada Brasília - Caldas Novas e Brasília - Unaí, tive que deletar vários segmentos. Não sei como foi feita essa importação, mas se for para ter algo totalmente errado, acho melhor que fossem deletadas e só fosse aceito adicionar estradas importadas de dados de GPS, pois o Yahoo não cobre com o zoom de qualidade as estradas brasileiras. ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Material interessante para o OSM
Eu realmente discordo. Se uma pessoa usa o mapa para fazer rota, certamente ele ficará mais frustrado em saber que a maioria dos dados estão errados do que não existir dados suficientes. Ter várias informações erradas, é como fingir ter um mapa completo. Eu acredito que em relação as estradas é preciso ter informações mais próximas do correto. Até para quem vai adicionar estradas ou editar fica complicado, devido as estradas erradas importadas do IBGE. Minha sugestão é se possível remover todas as estradas importadas pelo IBGE que estão muito erradas. 2010/1/1 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: 2010/1/2 enqd e...@ymail.com Olá pessoal, estou começando a me familiarizar com o Osm, no começo estava um pouco complicado, mas pouco a pouco vou me aprofundando mais. Recentemente encontrei um site com alguns arquivos GPS em formato GTM que pode ser muito interessante. Eu converti um dos arquivos e utilizei para corrigir a estrada de Brasília a Unaí e um pouco mais adiante. O site com os arquivos é http://onix.com.br/ivan/gps.htm Para baixar os arquivos, clique em roteiro para converter para GPX, basta usar a ferramente online no site: http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/ O cara que postou as rotas tem um email que está disponível nesse site: http://onix.com.br/ivan/ Se alguém desejar comunica-lo a respeito do projeto OSM seria interessante, (Talvez ele se interesse pelo projeto e comece a contribuir também) Obs: Uma coisa que percebi é que várias estradas estão erradas (totalmente desalinhadas). Essas estradas parecem ter sido importadas do IBGE. Para adicionar a estrada Brasília - Caldas Novas e Brasília - Unaí, tive que deletar vários segmentos. Não sei como foi feita essa importação, mas se for para ter algo totalmente errado, acho melhor que fossem deletadas e só fosse aceito adicionar estradas importadas de dados de GPS, pois o Yahoo não cobre com o zoom de qualidade as estradas brasileiras. Quase tudos os rodovias importado pelo IBGE precicar controle, eu ja fiz este com BR-262 Belo Horizonte para Vitoria, e alguns outros pedasses. Achou que e melhor continuar com os dados de IBGE e ajustar onde tem dados melhor ou mais recente, que chirar, o mapa parecendo mais completo com este. ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-is] OpenStreetMap.is vefurinn að fara í loftið
Ég kom loksins einhverju á openstreetmap.is í dag: http://openstreetmap.is (einnig á http://osm.is) Þetta er ekki mikið en ábendingar um texta og jafnvel einhver tilbúin skrif væru vel þegin. Einnig er ég mjög lélegur í útlitshönnun og fæ þetta CSS menu ekki til að líta vel út (aðalhönnuninni er að mestu til stolið af http://openstreetmap.ca). Vefnum er haldið við á github hér: http://github.com/avar/App-OpenStreetMapIs-Web Ég get einnig sett up póst-forward á openstreetmap.is léninu sem lítur kannski betur út ef það er verið að senda póst til aðila stofnana að biðja þá um gögn, hefur einhver hér áhuga á að fá mail forward í slíkum tilgangi? ___ Talk-is mailing list Talk-is@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-is
[Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Erstmal ein gutes Neues zusammen! Ich war letztes Jahr mal in ein paar Diskussionen dabei, in denen es um spurgenaue Abbildung von Autobahnkreuzen, etc. ging. Ueber die Feiertage hatte ich Zeit, ein wenig damit zu spielen und das ist dabei rausgekommen: http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/7219/bosmcrossing1.png Das Kreuz ist bei Herford (ca. 52°05'20'', 8°41'46'') und wurde mal im November als Beispiel angegeben: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.08868lon=8.69753zoom=17layers=B000FTF http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2009-November/058720.html Ich bin dabei komplett ohne Relations ausgekommen und habe als Eingangsdaten nur 'lanes', '*.link', 'oneway' und 'highway' verwendet (ohne Gewähr auf Vollständigkeit). Bei einer angenommenen Spurbreite von 5m sieht das ganze relativ realistisch aus. Allerdings habe ich das Kreuz lokal bei mir ziemlich umbauen muessen, damit das raus kommt, was zu sehen ist. Die Änderungen habe ich sicherheitshalber nicht hochgeladen, denn mit einem lokalen Datensatz kann man besser basteln ohne die anderen zu stören. Gruesse Hubert -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
qbert biker schrieb: Erstmal ein gutes Neues zusammen! Ich war letztes Jahr mal in ein paar Diskussionen dabei, in denen es um spurgenaue Abbildung von Autobahnkreuzen, etc. ging. Ueber die Feiertage hatte ich Zeit, ein wenig damit zu spielen und das ist dabei rausgekommen: ... Ich bin dabei komplett ohne Relations ausgekommen und habe als Eingangsdaten nur 'lanes', '*.link', 'oneway' und 'highway' verwendet (ohne Gewähr auf Vollständigkeit). Bei einer angenommenen Spurbreite von 5m sieht das ganze relativ realistisch aus. Allerdings habe ich das Kreuz lokal bei mir ziemlich umbauen muessen, damit das raus kommt, was zu sehen ist. Die Änderungen habe ich sicherheitshalber nicht hochgeladen, denn mit einem lokalen Datensatz kann man besser basteln ohne die anderen zu stören. Könntest du den irgendwie bereitstellen, damit man sich das ganze etwas genauer anschauen kann? Für sowas wäre eine Sandkasten-Datenbank nicht schlecht, in die man einen Ausschnitt an Daten importieren kann und dann dadrauf ein bisschen rumspielen kann, um neue Vorschläge zu entwickeln und zu testen... Gerade komplexe Dinge wie ÖPNV oder Einzelerfassung von Fahrspuren und -Flächen. Dort könnte man ein Beispiel aufbauen und schauen, wie sich das an die verschiedenen realen Fälle anpasst, ohne irgendwen zu stören. Das könnte vielleicht auch die ein oder andere Endlos-Diskussion verkürzen, wenn man die konkurrierenden Vorschläge mal nebeneinander realisieren kann und _sieht_, über was man da spricht. Mit so einer Datenbank könnte man dann auch die Software passend anpassen, damit, wenn der Vorschlag fertig entwickelt wurde, die passenden Tools (Renderer-Styles, Editoren/-Funktionen, Router, ...) zur Verfügung stehen. Grüße ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Am Freitag 01 Januar 2010 11:35:32 schrieb SLXViper: Für sowas wäre eine Sandkasten-Datenbank nicht schlecht, in die man einen Ausschnitt an Daten importieren kann und dann dadrauf ein bisschen rumspielen kann, um neue Vorschläge zu entwickeln und zu testen... sehr gute idee! koennte man sowas nicht auf dem fossgis dev-server realisieren? es wuerde ja erstmal reichen, wenn nur die deutschland-daten drin waeren... ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
qbert biker schrieb: Ich bin dabei komplett ohne Relations ausgekommen und habe als Eingangsdaten nur 'lanes', '*.link', 'oneway' und 'highway' verwendet (ohne Gewähr auf Vollständigkeit). Bei einer angenommenen Spurbreite von 5m sieht das ganze relativ realistisch aus. So eine Minimallösung geht aber doch nur, wenn man zahlreiche Einschränkungen vornimmt, die mehr oder weniger nur für Autobahnkreuze zutreffen? Ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, dass sich damit eine innerstädtische Situation abbilden ließe - selbst dann, wenn man sich auf Autofahrbahnen beschränken würde. Allerdings habe ich das Kreuz lokal bei mir ziemlich umbauen muessen, damit das raus kommt, was zu sehen ist. Die Änderungen habe ich sicherheitshalber nicht hochgeladen, denn mit einem lokalen Datensatz kann man besser basteln ohne die anderen zu stören. Kannst du das als .osm-Datei bereitstellen? Tobias Knerr ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Hallo, SLXViper wrote: Für sowas wäre eine Sandkasten-Datenbank nicht schlecht, in die man einen Ausschnitt an Daten importieren kann und dann dadrauf ein bisschen rumspielen kann, Es gibt ein paar solcher Sandkaesten bei osm.org, darunter http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/ kann man sich ganz normal anmelden, account holen, und hochladen, was man will (es gibt allerdings keine planet files und keine gerenderten Kacheln davon, das, was man an Kacheln sieht, kommt vom Hauptserver) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Guenther Meyer schrieb: Am Freitag 01 Januar 2010 11:35:32 schrieb SLXViper: Für sowas wäre eine Sandkasten-Datenbank nicht schlecht, in die man einen Ausschnitt an Daten importieren kann und dann dadrauf ein bisschen rumspielen kann, um neue Vorschläge zu entwickeln und zu testen... sehr gute idee! koennte man sowas nicht auf dem fossgis dev-server realisieren? es wuerde ja erstmal reichen, wenn nur die deutschland-daten drin waeren... Ich dachte eher an eine erstmal leere Datenbank, in die jeder importiert, was er braucht. Die Synchronisierung mit der echten Datenbank wäre nämlich alles andere als trivial. Und für ein ÖPNV-Schema braucht man keine landuses und massenweise Gebäude... Das ganze muss natürlich dokumentiert werden, wo wer was entwickelt, damit sich niemand in die Quere kommt und man die jeweiligen Gegenden wiederfindet. Und eine Beschränkung nur auf Deutschland halte ich für Unfug - der Rest der Welt hat vielleicht auch gute Ideen... Und außerdem sieht man ja oft, dass in anderen Ländern deutlich andere Reglungen existieren, an die man in Deutschland gar nicht denkt - Regelungen, die im Nachhinein Probleme machen, weil man an die nicht gedacht hat. Genau das ließe sich auch rechtzeitig erkennen, sofern sich jemand aus diesen Ländern drum kümmert. Grüße ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Frederik Ramm schrieb: Es gibt ein paar solcher Sandkaesten bei osm.org, darunter http://api06.dev.openstreetmap.org/ kann man sich ganz normal anmelden, account holen, und hochladen, was man will (es gibt allerdings keine planet files und keine gerenderten Kacheln davon, das, was man an Kacheln sieht, kommt vom Hauptserver) An den dachte ich auch ;) - ich wusste nur nicht, ob der auch für Tagging-Entwicklung da ist oder rein für Software, die auch ab und zu mal was kaputtmachen könnte. Dann bräuchte man nur noch etwas Dokumentation (wiki-Seite), wo was passiert, damit man niemandem ins Gehege kommt und die Gegenden wiederfindet. Grüße ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Original-Nachricht Datum: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 12:07:15 +0100 Von: Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de An: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch talk-de@openstreetmap.org Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung qbert biker schrieb: Ich bin dabei komplett ohne Relations ausgekommen und habe als Eingangsdaten nur 'lanes', '*.link', 'oneway' und 'highway' verwendet (ohne Gewähr auf Vollständigkeit). Bei einer angenommenen Spurbreite von 5m sieht das ganze relativ realistisch aus. So eine Minimallösung geht aber doch nur, wenn man zahlreiche Einschränkungen vornimmt, die mehr oder weniger nur für Autobahnkreuze zutreffen? Ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, dass sich damit eine innerstädtische Situation abbilden ließe - selbst dann, wenn man sich auf Autofahrbahnen beschränken würde. Fuer jedes Gebiet die passende Abbildung. Das was ich da probiert habe, ist erstmal für Autobahnen/Schnellstrassen gedacht, weil die sehr genauen Regeln folgen. Andererseits sind für Navis mit Spurwechselassistent die Autobahnen/Schnellstrassen von besonderer Bedeutung. Wenn ich dazukomme, werde ich noch etwas ähnliches für Innenstadtbereiche probieren. Ich denke schon, dass da mit der passenden Abstraktion einiges drin ist. Allerdings habe ich das Kreuz lokal bei mir ziemlich umbauen muessen, damit das raus kommt, was zu sehen ist. Die Änderungen habe ich sicherheitshalber nicht hochgeladen, denn mit einem lokalen Datensatz kann man besser basteln ohne die anderen zu stören. Kannst du das als .osm-Datei bereitstellen? Gerne, aber eine kurze Frage vorab, wie ich das am besten anstelle. Die bz2-komprimierte Datei kommt noch auf ca. 52kb und das dürfte etwas zuviel für die Liste hier sein, oder? Aber viel hab ich nicht gemacht. Erstmal habe ich Einfädelspuren korrigiert, die als eigener Link drin waren. Dann habe ich die ways anhand der tracks von der Mitte der Fahrbahn auf den linken Rand verschoben, weil sonst die Geometrie kracht. Und ich habe noch die ways neu gesplittet und wieder zusammengefügt, so dass sie an jeder Verzweigung enden und beginnen. Letzteres ist nicht unbedingt nötig, erleichtert aber die Programmierung ungemein. Ich hätte sonst virtuell im Programm splitten müssen und da habe ich über die Nachbearbeitung des Netzes ein wenig abgekürzt ;) Ach ja, ein Hinweis noch. Für das Rauslesen der Spuranzahl habe ich Google Earth benutzt, der Datensatz ist also nicht mehr lizenztechnisch sauber. Grüsse Hubert -- Preisknaller: GMX DSL Flatrate für nur 16,99 Euro/mtl.! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Erstmal ein gutes Neues zusammen! Dito! Ich bin dabei komplett ohne Relations ausgekommen Die Relationen sind dafür gedacht, dass ein Router die Spuren wieder zu einer Fahrbahn zusammenfassen kann. Auf Grund der GPS Genauigkeit wird ein Router durch zu eng zusammenliegende Spuren ja eher verwirrt. Des weiteren ist die Fehleranfälligkeit eines solchen Konstrukts natürlich auch größer, so dass das Spurenmapping für das Routing vermutlich eher eine Verschlechterung bringen wird. Chris ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Am Freitag 01 Januar 2010 12:10:30 schrieb SLXViper: Guenther Meyer schrieb: Am Freitag 01 Januar 2010 11:35:32 schrieb SLXViper: Für sowas wäre eine Sandkasten-Datenbank nicht schlecht, in die man einen Ausschnitt an Daten importieren kann und dann dadrauf ein bisschen rumspielen kann, um neue Vorschläge zu entwickeln und zu testen... sehr gute idee! koennte man sowas nicht auf dem fossgis dev-server realisieren? es wuerde ja erstmal reichen, wenn nur die deutschland-daten drin waeren... Ich dachte eher an eine erstmal leere Datenbank, in die jeder importiert, was er braucht. oder so. jeder tut dann rein, was er braucht. allerdings sehe ich da ein problem: angenommen, man will verschiedene moeglichkeiten einer realisierung direkt vergleichen (zum beispiel ein autobahnkreuz). sinnvollerweise macht man das am selben objekt, das sich aber geographisch nunmal an einer bestimmten position befindet, und damit auch die verschiedenen elemente uebereinander... eine moegliche loesung waere, nur die originaldaten aus dem live-system an der richtigen stelle zu importieren, und die alternativen ideen aussenrum anzuordnen; platz waere in der leeren datenbank ja genug... ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Am Freitag 01 Januar 2010 13:34:50 schrieb Chris-Hein Lunkhusen: Erstmal ein gutes Neues zusammen! Dito! Ich bin dabei komplett ohne Relations ausgekommen Die Relationen sind dafür gedacht, dass ein Router die Spuren wieder zu einer Fahrbahn zusammenfassen kann. Auf Grund der GPS Genauigkeit wird ein Router durch zu eng zusammenliegende Spuren ja eher verwirrt. Des weiteren ist die Fehleranfälligkeit eines solchen Konstrukts natürlich auch größer, so dass das Spurenmapping für das Routing vermutlich eher eine Verschlechterung bringen wird. immer diese vorschnellen und unbewiesenen behauptungen... man sollte sich vielleicht erst mal die realisierung, also die daten selbst, anschauen, bevor man darueber urteilt. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Original-Nachricht Datum: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 13:34:50 +0100 Von: Chris-Hein Lunkhusen chris66...@gmx.de An: talk-de@openstreetmap.org Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung Erstmal ein gutes Neues zusammen! Dito! Ich bin dabei komplett ohne Relations ausgekommen Die Relationen sind dafür gedacht, dass ein Router die Spuren wieder zu einer Fahrbahn zusammenfassen kann. Auf Grund der GPS Genauigkeit wird ein Router durch zu eng zusammenliegende Spuren ja eher verwirrt. Wenn man wirklich vor hat, einem Router so ein Linienbündel vorzusetzen. Ich hatte ja schon mal einen Router für OSM geschrieben und schon damals habe ich die meiste Zeit in die Vorbehandlung investiert, also der Vereinfachung des Graphen. Auch hier wäre das erste was ich machen würde, einen Algo zu bauen, der die Linienbündel wieder in einen einfachen Graphen zurückbaut. Einzelspurabbildung ist ineffizient beim Routing, weil es plötzlich pro Spur einen eigenen Weg im Graphen gibt. Des weiteren ist die Fehleranfälligkeit eines solchen Konstrukts natürlich auch größer, so dass das Spurenmapping für das Routing vermutlich eher eine Verschlechterung bringen wird. Als Anwendungsentwickler wollte ich mit dem Bild zeigen, welche Daten ich brauche, um die Geometrie abzubilden und das mit einfach zu handhabenden Attributen. Und dazu sind fast alle Informationen drin, die ich für Navigation und Spurwechselassistenz brauche. Genaue geometrische Beschreibung und Navigation müssen ja kein Gegensatz sein. Was fehlt, aber relativ einfach nachzutragen ist, sind Sonderlinien, wie die breiten Strichlinien, die die Einfädelspuren abgrenzen. Das wäre noch ein Attribut dazu. Gruesse Hubert -- GRATIS für alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Original-Nachricht Datum: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 13:53:06 +0100 Von: Guenther Meyer d@sordidmusic.com An: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch talk-de@openstreetmap.org Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung immer diese vorschnellen und unbewiesenen behauptungen... man sollte sich vielleicht erst mal die realisierung, also die daten selbst, anschauen, bevor man darueber urteilt. Höhere Komplexität verstärkt die Gefahr, dass sich Fehler einschleichen. Wenn ich 3 Spuren als Einzelelemente des Graphen einfüge und danach dem System über ein weiteres Konstrukt mitteilen muss, dass man beliebig zwischen ihnen wechseln kann, ist das fehleranfälliger als 'lanes=3' Wenn ich Einzelspuren als ways tagge und die dem Router direkt vorsetze, wird er erstmal langsamer, weil die Geschwindigkeit direkt von der Anzahl der (Verbindungs-) Knoten abhängig ist. Grüsse Hubert -- Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und Mozilla Firefox 3.5 - sicherer, schneller und einfacher! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/chbrowser ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Guenther Meyer schrieb: Konstrukts natürlich auch größer, so dass das Spurenmapping für das Routing vermutlich eher eine Verschlechterung bringen wird. immer diese vorschnellen und unbewiesenen behauptungen... Sorry, so sollte es nicht rüberkommen. Es sind nur meine persönlichen Bauchschmerzen die ich bei dem Thema habe. ;-) man sollte sich vielleicht erst mal die realisierung, also die daten selbst, anschauen, bevor man darueber urteilt. Ja, wenn die Spielwiese zeigt, dass das Ganze funktionieren kann, dann lass ich mich gerne überzeugen. Chris ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Am Freitag, 1. Januar 2010 13:53:06 schrieb Guenther Meyer: Am Freitag 01 Januar 2010 13:34:50 schrieb Chris-Hein Lunkhusen: Erstmal ein gutes Neues zusammen! Dito! Ich bin dabei komplett ohne Relations ausgekommen Die Relationen sind dafür gedacht, dass ein Router die Spuren wieder zu einer Fahrbahn zusammenfassen kann. Auf Grund der GPS Genauigkeit wird ein Router durch zu eng zusammenliegende Spuren ja eher verwirrt. Also ein Navi wird durch zu eng liegende einzelne Wege auf jeden Fall vewirrt. Das ist die Erfahrung die ich Garmin Navis gesammelt habe. Wenn man versucht, für jede Spur, oder jeden Weg einen Extra Weg anzulegen, dann ist das für die Benutzbarkeit auf Navis in vielerlei Hinsicht eher unvorteilhaft! Die meisten Geräte können nicht sicher die Position auf dem tatsächlichem Weg finden. Und das wird sich durch Gallileo nicht dramatisch verbessern. Des weiteren ist die Fehleranfälligkeit eines solchen Konstrukts natürlich auch größer, so dass das Spurenmapping für das Routing vermutlich eher eine Verschlechterung bringen wird. immer diese vorschnellen und unbewiesenen behauptungen... man sollte sich vielleicht erst mal die realisierung, also die daten selbst, anschauen, bevor man darueber urteilt. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] wirtschaftswege - access=no
Am 31. Dezember 2009 17:28 schrieb Mirko Küster webmas...@ts-eastrail.de: Wenn man das so dehnt dann brauchts keinen Track mehr. Hier mal ein Bildbeispiel. Oben ein Biketrail wie auch auf der Tagbeschreibung stehend. Unten ein 3,5 m Weg der vorwiegend für Rad vorgesehen ist, mit Ausnahme aber auch schweres Erntegerät zum Einsatz kommt, was Path aber wiederum ausschließt. Es ist kein Track, kein Path und auch kein Cycleway, können wir uns wenigstens auf das Element Way einigen? wieso nicht? M.E. oben ein Path, unten ein Track. Wenn da Erntegerät zum Einsatz kommt ist die Lage doch klar. Du kreierst hier Probleme wo es gar keine gibt. Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mapnik Probleme
Lennard l...@xs4all.nl wrote: Nein, das ist nur mit SVN Trunk, nicht mit 0.7. Jupp hatte das verpeilt. Schaumermal ob das mit boost 1.40 aus Debian squeeze läuft. Sven -- The main thing to note is that when you choose open source you don't get a Windows operating system. (from http://www.dell.com/ubuntu) /me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Kannst du das als .osm-Datei bereitstellen? http://www.opencarbox.de/osm/test6.osm.bz2 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Spurgenaue Abbildung
Am Freitag 01 Januar 2010 14:50:16 schrieb Chris-Hein Lunkhusen: Guenther Meyer schrieb: Konstrukts natürlich auch größer, so dass das Spurenmapping für das Routing vermutlich eher eine Verschlechterung bringen wird. immer diese vorschnellen und unbewiesenen behauptungen... Sorry, so sollte es nicht rüberkommen. Es sind nur meine persönlichen Bauchschmerzen die ich bei dem Thema habe. ;-) kam so rueber, aber wenn's nur der bauch ist, dann is ja gut... ;-) man sollte sich vielleicht erst mal die realisierung, also die daten selbst, anschauen, bevor man darueber urteilt. Ja, wenn die Spielwiese zeigt, dass das Ganze funktionieren kann, dann lass ich mich gerne überzeugen. das ist die richtige einstellung (die einigen hier manchmal leider zu fehlen scheint...) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
