Re: [OSM-talk-be] Weekly OSM
Thanks, nice to read it in Dutch. especially the Belgian touch you added :-) regards m On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 10:57 PM, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I would like to announce a new thing I am trying to do that is very simple but should introduce some continuity in our communication. I have posted the first translation of the Weekly OSM blog in dutch on osm.be: http://osm.be/nl/content/weekly-osm-news-221 Someone can translate into french if they want to. I can give you access to the website. Will post this tomorrow on the twitter account and the facebook group too. If you have osm-related news I should add please let me know. I will as always follow the mailinglist and sometime extract things I find newsworthy but feel free to nominate things you feel inportant and tell me. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Hey, 2014-10-24 1:13 GMT+02:00 Thomas o...@aptum.nl: Toch bijzonder dat al die officiële datasets die kennelijke fout bevatten. Interessant punt, we kunnen ook iets klein opzetten om fouten melden via deze webservice: Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Oeps, even te snel verzonden: https://www.agiv.be/producten/crab/meer-info-over-crab/beheer-van-het-crab/crab-beheerdiensten/crab-melding Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen 2014-10-24 9:10 GMT+02:00 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com: Hey, 2014-10-24 1:13 GMT+02:00 Thomas o...@aptum.nl: Toch bijzonder dat al die officiële datasets die kennelijke fout bevatten. Interessant punt, we kunnen ook iets klein opzetten om fouten melden via deze webservice: Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Een klein verhaaltje / A little story
Via de tool van Sander zag ik een straat waar ik nog geen huis nummers van had. Het was verleidelijk om de nummers gewoon snel te copiëren. Maar omdat ik toch met de honden buiten moest, besloot ik maar om een ommetje te maken langs die voor mij onbekende straat. Wat bracht deze kleine survey op naast de huisnummers ? Een zone 30, een gedenksteen aan Frans Abels (een toondichter 1899-1962) en een ontbreken pad en een vuilbak. En dat enkel op en ommetje van 10 minuten. Moraal van het verhaal ? Voor mij volstaat het kopieren van nummertjes uit AGIV Crab niet, ik kan beter met de honden gaan wandelen. Dan vergaar ik meer gevarieerde data en leer ik nog iets bij :-) From Sander's tool for the AGIV Crab import I saw a street in which I didn't collect house numbers so far. It was tempting to just copy the numbers. But since I needed to walk the dogs I decided to pass through that street. So what did I discover during this short survey ? A zone 30, a memorial for Frans Abels, and a missing path. It was just 10 minutes extra compared to our normal walk. Conclusion ? For me it is not sufficient to just copy numbers from a database. It's better to go out for a walk with the dogs. Using this method I collect more diverse data en I learn something along the way groeten/regards m ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
2014-10-24 5:32 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com: dan heb je geluk. In mijn regio is het veel slechter gesteld met de kwaliteit. ZN is waarschijnlijk zonder nummer, een kapel ? een kerk ? in Edegem is er ook een bibliotheek zonder nummer. m CRAB wordt per gemeente bijgehouden. Voor veel gemeenten is dat geen prioriteit. De burgemeester gaat daar geen stemmen mee winnen hé. In veel andere gemeenten zijn ze wel al gestart maar nog niet klaar met het controleren van de gemeenten, iets wat velen afgewerkt willen hebben tegen midden volgend jaar. Ik zou echt de opmerking van Ben ter harte nemen: ik vind het zonde dat we in OSM zaken gaan corrigeren in het CRAB zonder die terug te melden, en al zeker als het in gemeenten is waar de controle nu ook al bezig is. Weet dat veel Vlaamse overheidsdiensten momenteel bezig zijn hun databanken aan te passen zodat ze meer en meer gebruik gaan maken van het CRAB (ik ben zelf betrokken bij 2 projecten). Als je verbeteringen hebt zou het zonde zijn dat zij die ook niet krijgen. Johan ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Voor wat hoort wat vind ik, het mag misschien geen prioriteit zijn om de gemeente in kaart te brengen, waarom zou het dan voor ons prioriteit zijn hun data te fixen ? Het is op zich al moeilijk genoeg voor ons. De openheid van hun data kan beter. Bv. het overtekenen van gebouwen vind ik redelijk primair als volgende stap. Ik heb het gevoel dat we het op een zilveren plateau willen aanbrengen, dat op zich al zou toch wel wat onderhandelingspower / lobbywerk kunnen zijn. Bekijk het zoals het is: We gaan het werk doen van anderen. We kunnen evengoed zeggen: Daar staat het allemaal, zoek het zelf uit, in feite wat wij nu aan het doen zijn met hun data. We hebben hier de kans om meer visibiliteit aan OSM te geven, ik zie de krantenkoppen al: OSM gemeenschap helpt gemeentes met het valideren van geografische data Dit is leverage. pasmunt.Think about it! Glenn On 24-10-14 09:30, Johan Van de Wauw wrote: 2014-10-24 5:32 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com: dan heb je geluk. In mijn regio is het veel slechter gesteld met de kwaliteit. ZN is waarschijnlijk zonder nummer, een kapel ? een kerk ? in Edegem is er ook een bibliotheek zonder nummer. m CRAB wordt per gemeente bijgehouden. Voor veel gemeenten is dat geen prioriteit. De burgemeester gaat daar geen stemmen mee winnen hé. In veel andere gemeenten zijn ze wel al gestart maar nog niet klaar met het controleren van de gemeenten, iets wat velen afgewerkt willen hebben tegen midden volgend jaar. Ik zou echt de opmerking van Ben ter harte nemen: ik vind het zonde dat we in OSM zaken gaan corrigeren in het CRAB zonder die terug te melden, en al zeker als het in gemeenten is waar de controle nu ook al bezig is. Weet dat veel Vlaamse overheidsdiensten momenteel bezig zijn hun databanken aan te passen zodat ze meer en meer gebruik gaan maken van het CRAB (ik ben zelf betrokken bij 2 projecten). Als je verbeteringen hebt zou het zonde zijn dat zij die ook niet krijgen. Johan ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Everything is going to be 200 OK. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] text rendering for routes in Maperitive
Hi all, Sorry for the delay. Here are my rules : https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvxucuxtce8085f/Default.mrules?dl=0 Thank you ! Oli -Message d'origine- De : Glenn Plas [mailto:gl...@byte-consult.be] Envoyé : jeudi 9 octobre 2014 14:53 À : OpenStreetMap Belgium Objet : Re: [OSM-talk-be] text rendering for routes in Maperitive Hi Olivier, Do you have an .mscript file that we can use to reproduce your results in Maperative ? It's not clear to me how you are building your local map from this mail. It would help to know what you are getting at this moment. Greetings, Glenn On 09-10-14 10:42, Olivier Toubeau wrote: Hiall, I'm experiencing some problems with text rendering in Maperitive. I would like the same result like here for bicycle routes (RAVeL) http://www.opencyclemap.org/?zoom=13lat=50.50065lon=4.20957layers=B I think the problem is related to the display of the 'ref' tag in the relation route ncn. So i've tried many solutions, like importing a little Python script cyclelabel(e), which only works for one little piece of route: way n°28777565, with the two relations 112582/169 and 416224/17 (called: RAVeL 3 here : http://www.opencyclemap.org/?zoom=15lat=50.51416lon=4.27137layers=B). What am I doing wrong please ? I thank you in advance for your help ! Oli http://www.avast.com/ Ce courrier électronique ne contient aucun virus ou logiciel malveillant parce que la protection Antivirus avast! http://www.avast.com/ est active. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Everything is going to be 200 OK. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Daar geef ik je gelijk in, Glen. Ik map om OSM beter te maken, niet om een of andere overheidsdatabank te corrigeren. Het is ook een extra stap die je bv. niet van toerist-mappers kan verwachten. Als ik in Nederland een huisnummer aanpas of een gebouw verwijder omdat het gesloopt is, wil ik echt geen melding gaan maken bij BAG. Ook mensen die niet op de hoogte zijn van heel dit AGIV Crab verhaal gaan dat niet doen. Ik zou vooral een lijstje willen bijhouden voor mezelf, zodat ik niet telkens weer de zelfde fout ga bekijken. aan de andere kant doe ik wel terugmelding van problemen met de wandelknooppunten. dus echt consequent ben ik hier dus ook niet in :-) Sinds de building-import in NY, lopen er scripts die de overheid laat weten dat er wijzigingen gebeurd zijn. Automatisch. Als mapper moet je je daar niets van aantrekken. AGIV kan toch ook zoiets opzetten ? mvg m 2014-10-24 9:40 GMT+02:00 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be: Voor wat hoort wat vind ik, het mag misschien geen prioriteit zijn om de gemeente in kaart te brengen, waarom zou het dan voor ons prioriteit zijn hun data te fixen ? Het is op zich al moeilijk genoeg voor ons. De openheid van hun data kan beter. Bv. het overtekenen van gebouwen vind ik redelijk primair als volgende stap. Ik heb het gevoel dat we het op een zilveren plateau willen aanbrengen, dat op zich al zou toch wel wat onderhandelingspower / lobbywerk kunnen zijn. Bekijk het zoals het is: We gaan het werk doen van anderen. We kunnen evengoed zeggen: Daar staat het allemaal, zoek het zelf uit, in feite wat wij nu aan het doen zijn met hun data. We hebben hier de kans om meer visibiliteit aan OSM te geven, ik zie de krantenkoppen al: OSM gemeenschap helpt gemeentes met het valideren van geografische data Dit is leverage. pasmunt.Think about it! Glenn On 24-10-14 09:30, Johan Van de Wauw wrote: 2014-10-24 5:32 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com: dan heb je geluk. In mijn regio is het veel slechter gesteld met de kwaliteit. ZN is waarschijnlijk zonder nummer, een kapel ? een kerk ? in Edegem is er ook een bibliotheek zonder nummer. m CRAB wordt per gemeente bijgehouden. Voor veel gemeenten is dat geen prioriteit. De burgemeester gaat daar geen stemmen mee winnen hé. In veel andere gemeenten zijn ze wel al gestart maar nog niet klaar met het controleren van de gemeenten, iets wat velen afgewerkt willen hebben tegen midden volgend jaar. Ik zou echt de opmerking van Ben ter harte nemen: ik vind het zonde dat we in OSM zaken gaan corrigeren in het CRAB zonder die terug te melden, en al zeker als het in gemeenten is waar de controle nu ook al bezig is. Weet dat veel Vlaamse overheidsdiensten momenteel bezig zijn hun databanken aan te passen zodat ze meer en meer gebruik gaan maken van het CRAB (ik ben zelf betrokken bij 2 projecten). Als je verbeteringen hebt zou het zonde zijn dat zij die ook niet krijgen. Johan ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Everything is going to be 200 OK. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Op 24 oktober 2014 01:13 schreef Thomas o...@aptum.nl: Ik heb nu de CRAB-data voor een hele verzameling straten in en rond Oostende bestudeerd. In het algemeen vind ik dat de data vrij nauwkeurig is. Een enkele keer merkte ik op dat twee naast elkaar gelegen huisnummers met elkaar omgewisseld lijken te zijn. In werkelijkheid nummert alles gewoon netjes door, maar in GRB en CadGIS lijken de nummers ook omgewisseld te staan. Ik veronderstel dat we in dat soort gevallen de nummerplaatjes bij het huis moeten aanhouden. Toch bijzonder dat al die “officiële” datasets die kennelijke fout bevatten. Verder zijn er wel vaak heel wat nummers zonder locatie. Het betreffen vrijwel altijd nummers met een toevoeging (meestal het huisnummer waar ze bijhoren, een underscore en dan de toevoeging; vb 22_03). Soms zijn het schijnbaar gewone nummers. De nummers komen nooit voor op het GRB, maar soms komt hetzelfde huisnummer zonder toevoeging wél voor op het GRB. Ik begrijp niet goed of dat nu de subadressen zijn binnen CRAB of gewone adressen, maar dan een bisnummers (zie ook https://www.agiv.be/~/media/agiv/producten/crab/documenten/xgrabobjectcataloogv114.pdf pagina 15 en 29). OPGELET: Merk op dat dit bestand over een andere database gaat. De xGrab database valt niet onder de open-data licentie, en deze mogen we dus ook niet gebruiken (de xGrab database bevat trouwens wel gebouwcontouren).Gelieve je tot de correcte documenten te richten: https://download.agiv.be/Producten/Detail?id=102title=CRAB_adresposities Uit het feit dat er geen positie bekend is leid ik af dat het waarschijnlijk subadressen zijn die hun positie aan hun parent-adres horen te ontlenen. Misschien is het handig als deze punten vlak bij het bijbehorende parent-adres-punt geplaatst worden. In feite is dat ook waar ze gekarteerd zouden moeten worden. In Oostende alleen al gaat het om meer dan 1000 van dat soort nummers, met name in de winkelstraten en de appartementsblokken. Op de Zeedijk alleen al gaat het om 226 adrespunten zonder locatie, die gewoon in de overeenkomstige adresblokken horen. Al die appartementsgebouwen hebben 1 adrespunt, wat me verder doet vermoeden dat de meeste zo niet alle van die adrespunten zonder positie allen subadressen zijn die hun positie aan het parent adres zouden moeten ontlenen. Ik vind het niet aantrekkelijk om tientallen adressen voor 1 appartementsblok handmatig op een netjes raster te plaatsen boven het appartementsblok. Als dat automatisch kan... Daarnaast is het misschien handig om deze punten alsnog een tag mee te geven zodat ze anders weergegeven kunnen worden binnen JOSM, maar misschien vinden de andere mappers dat enkel onhandig. In datzelfde kader is het misschien mogelijk om iets met het herkomstAdrespositie-veld te doen. Daaruit zou je moeten kunnen afleiden of het punt als perceel-centroid of gebouw-centroid is afgeleid. Daarnaast kan die informatie misschien licht werpen op bepaalde nauwkeurigheids-problemen. Maar wederom: ik kan ook goed begrijpen als andere mappers die extra tags enkel vervelend vinden. Ze zullen in elk geval verwijderd moeten worden voor het opladen van de gegevens, zoals Sander al aangeeft. Verder kwam ik nog een aantal keer een adrespunt tegen met als huisnummer 'ZN', zonder positie. Het lijkt er steeds hooguit 1 per straat te zijn. Heeft iemand enig idee waar dat voor staat? Misschien 'zonder nummer'? In dat geval kunnen we dus helemaal niets met zo'n punt zonder nummer of locatie. Misschien is het handig om die met het script eruit te filteren? Deze had ik nog niet gezien. Buiten een vergissing van een mapper in de Spechtstraat in Oostende, zijn alle andere foute huisnummers eigenlijk industriële of commerciële panden waar de afstand tussen het centroid in CRAB en het gemapte gebouw groter dan de door mij ingestelde 20m op de website van Sander is; geen echte fouten dus. In het algemeen zijn de gegevens voor Oostende dus zeer goed bruikbaar, zeker als die subadressen nog automatisch de positie van hun parent-adres kunnen krijgen. Groetjes, Thomas Bij mijn weten heb ik helemaal geen subadressen verwerkt, ik heb die tabel zelfs niet bekeken. Maar je kan het zelf controleren in het script: https://github.com/sanderd17/sanderd17.github.io/blob/master/extract.py De subadressen zijn volgens mij bus-nummers. Een huisnummer kan een suffix hebben (zoals 29A), zonder dat het daarom een busnummer is. We zijn niet van plan om busnummers in OSM te importeren, omdat alle bussen die tot eenzelfde adres behoren toch meestal vlak naast elkaar te vinden zijn, en dat er maar 1 voordeur is. Als gevolg is er geen geografisch onderscheid, en is het dus niet nodig die in OSM te importeren. Nu heb ik wel een mogelijke bug gevonden in mijn script. In https://download.agiv.be/Producten/GetDocument?id=90title=Data_CRAB_pdfx=Data_CRAB_pdf staat vermeld dat een terrein object N huisnummers kan hebben. Maar volgens mij gebruik ik er
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Sander, je baseert je beter op de CRAB adressen*lijst* in plaats van de CRAB adres*posities* https://download.agiv.be/Producten/Detail?id=447 Dan krijg je per adres maar 1 positie (de beste) en er zijn zelfs een aantal categorieën die niet in de adresposities zitten. Verwarrend - zeker wel. Johan ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Hooi Sander, http://sanderd17.github.io/import.html werkt nu ook op mijn netbook zowel in Firefox als in Chrome. Ik gebruik die netbook om minder stroom te verbruiken en te mappen van in mijn luie zetel, een touchpad is ook minder belasten voor de vingers. ;-) Uw programma is handig om de reeds ingevoerde adressen te controleren of bij te werken. Een goede manier om het te gebruiken is eerst een test te doen met het OSM vinkje aan en de straten op te sporen waar er problemen zijn. Daarna zonder het OSM vinkje, dan krijgt men enkel de eerste kolom, maar dan kan men de adrespunten in JOSM inladen als een aparte laag en daarna de JOSM gegevens, zoals met GPS traces. Dan loopt men minder de kans om fouten te maken bij het uploaden. Ik heb al wel enkele adresnummers gevonden met verschillen tussen CRAB en GRB. Ik denk dat ik het wel ga gebruiken. :-) Nogmaals bedankt. Sus ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Op 24 oktober 2014 10:26 schreef Johan Van de Wauw johan.vandew...@gmail.com: Sander, je baseert je beter op de CRAB adressen*lijst* in plaats van de CRAB adres*posities* https://download.agiv.be/Producten/Detail?id=447 Dan krijg je per adres maar 1 positie (de beste) en er zijn zelfs een aantal categorieën die niet in de adresposities zitten. Verwarrend - zeker wel. Johan Dat is idd zeer verwarrend. Ben nu de andere database aan het downloaden, aangezien er geen documentatie van is, wil ik die eerst wel eens bekijken. Groeten, Sander ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
2014-10-24 10:48 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com: Op 24 oktober 2014 10:26 schreef Johan Van de Wauw johan.vandew...@gmail.com: Sander, je baseert je beter op de CRAB adressen*lijst* in plaats van de CRAB adres*posities* https://download.agiv.be/Producten/Detail?id=447 Dan krijg je per adres maar 1 positie (de beste) en er zijn zelfs een aantal categorieën die niet in de adresposities zitten. Verwarrend - zeker wel. Johan Dat is idd zeer verwarrend. Ben nu de andere database aan het downloaden, aangezien er geen documentatie van is, wil ik die eerst wel eens bekijken. Er is een leesmij. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Tag; definitie voor een garage straat
Dag, Situatie: Huizen rij langs straat. Elk huis met een lange smalle tuin naar achteren toe. Er is een geasfalteerde straatje die achter de tuinen loopt. Waardoor men in die tuinen een garage kon bouwen, dus toegang via zoals wij hier zeggen een garagestraatje. bord C3 uitzonderlijk plaatselijk verkeer het straatje stopt ter hoogte van een barrier paaltje voetgangers en fietsers kunnen verder.Werd ingevoerd. Het verkeersbord F45 doodlopende straat, staat aan de ingang van de wijk moet ik voor dit garagestraatje noexit=no handmatig toevoegen? Zie 50.7892212,3.1862567 service=parking_aisle of is er daarvoor een betere tag. Jakka ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tag; definitie voor een garage straat
Ik gebruik in zo'n situatie highway=service, service=alley noexit=no moet je niet toevoegen. Elke router kan dat zelf wel uitvissen. Tenminste als je op de barrier=bollard ook foot=yes, bicycle=yes zet mvg m 2014-10-24 12:08 GMT+02:00 Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com: Dag, Situatie: Huizen rij langs straat. Elk huis met een lange smalle tuin naar achteren toe. Er is een geasfalteerde straatje die achter de tuinen loopt. Waardoor men in die tuinen een garage kon bouwen, dus toegang via zoals wij hier zeggen een garagestraatje. bord C3 uitzonderlijk plaatselijk verkeer het straatje stopt ter hoogte van een barrier paaltje voetgangers en fietsers kunnen verder.Werd ingevoerd. Het verkeersbord F45 doodlopende straat, staat aan de ingang van de wijk moet ik voor dit garagestraatje noexit=no handmatig toevoegen? Zie 50.7892212,3.1862567 service=parking_aisle of is er daarvoor een betere tag. Jakka ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tag; definitie voor een garage straat
o ja, het is gemakkelijker als je op osm.org, de exit pijl rechts aanklikt en dan de link daar kopieert en meestuurt als je naar een bepaalde plek verwijst. 2014-10-24 12:14 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com: Ik gebruik in zo'n situatie highway=service, service=alley noexit=no moet je niet toevoegen. Elke router kan dat zelf wel uitvissen. Tenminste als je op de barrier=bollard ook foot=yes, bicycle=yes zet mvg m 2014-10-24 12:08 GMT+02:00 Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com: Dag, Situatie: Huizen rij langs straat. Elk huis met een lange smalle tuin naar achteren toe. Er is een geasfalteerde straatje die achter de tuinen loopt. Waardoor men in die tuinen een garage kon bouwen, dus toegang via zoals wij hier zeggen een garagestraatje. bord C3 uitzonderlijk plaatselijk verkeer het straatje stopt ter hoogte van een barrier paaltje voetgangers en fietsers kunnen verder.Werd ingevoerd. Het verkeersbord F45 doodlopende straat, staat aan de ingang van de wijk moet ik voor dit garagestraatje noexit=no handmatig toevoegen? Zie 50.7892212,3.1862567 service=parking_aisle of is er daarvoor een betere tag. Jakka ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tag; definitie voor een garage straat
Zeker geen noexit=no toevoegen. Dat is niet bedoeld voor gevallen waar de weg voor bepaalde groepen (voetgangers bijvoorbeeld) wel degelijk doorgaat (en ook in andere gevallen is het naar mijn mening slechts een hint voor andere mappers, geen wezenlijk onderdeel voor gebruikers). Ikzelf zou de voorkeur geven aan service=alley boven service=parking_aisle voor dit geval (al moet ik toegeven dat ik dit in de praktijk tag als highway=service zonder service-tag, wat geloof ik ook niet de bedoeling is). Het bord C3 - uitgezonderd plaatselijk verkeer kun je beschrijven met access=no, foot=yes of access=destination, al naar gelang hoe je 'plaatselijk verkeer' definieert. André 2014-10-24 12:08 GMT+02:00 Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com: Dag, Situatie: Huizen rij langs straat. Elk huis met een lange smalle tuin naar achteren toe. Er is een geasfalteerde straatje die achter de tuinen loopt. Waardoor men in die tuinen een garage kon bouwen, dus toegang via zoals wij hier zeggen een garagestraatje. bord C3 uitzonderlijk plaatselijk verkeer het straatje stopt ter hoogte van een barrier paaltje voetgangers en fietsers kunnen verder.Werd ingevoerd. Het verkeersbord F45 doodlopende straat, staat aan de ingang van de wijk moet ik voor dit garagestraatje noexit=no handmatig toevoegen? Zie 50.7892212,3.1862567 service=parking_aisle of is er daarvoor een betere tag. Jakka ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tag; definitie voor een garage straat
Oeps, te snel op enter gedrukt. Waar ik access=no, foot=yes zeg, bedoel ik access=private, foot=yes. André 2014-10-24 12:20 GMT+02:00 Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com: Zeker geen noexit=no toevoegen. Dat is niet bedoeld voor gevallen waar de weg voor bepaalde groepen (voetgangers bijvoorbeeld) wel degelijk doorgaat (en ook in andere gevallen is het naar mijn mening slechts een hint voor andere mappers, geen wezenlijk onderdeel voor gebruikers). Ikzelf zou de voorkeur geven aan service=alley boven service=parking_aisle voor dit geval (al moet ik toegeven dat ik dit in de praktijk tag als highway=service zonder service-tag, wat geloof ik ook niet de bedoeling is). Het bord C3 - uitgezonderd plaatselijk verkeer kun je beschrijven met access=no, foot=yes of access=destination, al naar gelang hoe je 'plaatselijk verkeer' definieert. André 2014-10-24 12:08 GMT+02:00 Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com: Dag, Situatie: Huizen rij langs straat. Elk huis met een lange smalle tuin naar achteren toe. Er is een geasfalteerde straatje die achter de tuinen loopt. Waardoor men in die tuinen een garage kon bouwen, dus toegang via zoals wij hier zeggen een garagestraatje. bord C3 uitzonderlijk plaatselijk verkeer het straatje stopt ter hoogte van een barrier paaltje voetgangers en fietsers kunnen verder.Werd ingevoerd. Het verkeersbord F45 doodlopende straat, staat aan de ingang van de wijk moet ik voor dit garagestraatje noexit=no handmatig toevoegen? Zie 50.7892212,3.1862567 service=parking_aisle of is er daarvoor een betere tag. Jakka ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com -- André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Ik heb die adressenlijst even gedownload en voor een paar straten bekeken. Dat verheldert ook wel een paar zaken. Weer kwam ik een geval tegen met als huisnummer 'ZN'. In deze lijst heeft hij echter wel een locatie meegekregen. Ik ken de betreffende plaats, en begrijp nu dat het een braakliggend perceel betreft waar in de nummering rekening is mee gehouden. Het huisnummer is dus nog niet toegekend, maar wel al gereserveerd, of zo iets. Alle adressen hebben per huisnummer een locatie gekregen. Vervolgens is elk 'BUSNR' voor dat punt geregistreerd in een apart punt met dezelfde locatie. Zoals Sander zegt kunnen deze punten genegeerd worden, en volstaat het om de unieke 'HUISNR's in het script op te nemen. Al ligt het misschien toch net wat ingewikkelder. Voor een bepaalde locatie (Kastanjelaan, Oostende, rond huisnummer 2) zie ik 24 (!) punten op elkaar liggen. Het betreft een klein appartementsgebouw. Het veld 'APPTNR' is steeds leeg. Voor HUISNR zijn er de waarden 2, 2_107, 2_109, 2_209, 2_309, 2A en 2D. Al deze 'HUISNR's met een underscore hebben als herkomst 'geinterpoleerdObvNevenliggendeHuisnummersGebouw'. In de dataset die ingeladen wordt met het script van Sander waren die 4 huisnummers met een underscore inderdaad de 4 punten die als 'zonder locatie' geregistreerd waren. In deze dataset hebben ze dus wel een locatie, maar vallen ze samen met het kale huisnr. Los daarvan heb je per 'HUISNR' in dit geval ook steeds een aantal 'BUSNR's. Dat is in dit geval 107, 109, 209, 309, 409, etc. Frappant is dat voor de HUISNR's met underscore, niet het nummer na de underscore als BUSNR geregistreerd is. Alle adressen met een underscore hebben een variant met BUSNR leeg en een variant met BUSNR A. Wat het helemaal af maakt is het feit dat het HNRLABEL in alle 19 samenvallende gevallen gelijk is, namelijk '2-2_309'. Mogelijk heeft dat ermee te maken dat het punt met HUISNR '2_309' de hoogste ID heeft van die hele set. Complex dus. Sander had het over het zinloos zijn van het registreren van meerdere busnummers per adrespunt, omdat dat toch allemaal samenvalt. Daar sluit ik mij bij aan. Echter, sommige van de nummers in de bovengenoemde casus zijn formeel bisnummers en geen subadres (wat dus op een busnummer of een appartementnummer zou slaan). Dat we de subadressen niet importeren lijkt me prima, maar mogelijk moeten we wel de bisnummers opnemen, ook als die toevallig samenvallen. Bij een opgesplitst rijhuis dat vroeger nr 5 was en nu nr 5 en nr 5A lijkt het me logisch om beide te importeren. Beide zou je ook prima kunnen intekenen met een eigen gebouw-polygoon. Bij een appartement heb je soms te maken met busnummers, maar soms ook met bisnummers (het was nog niet complex genoeg...). Wat dit betreft is het dus niet zo 'logisch' om al die 'HUISNR' met een underscore gewoon te negeren. Wat mij betreft mag dat wel gebeuren voor de APPTNR's en de BUSNR's. Dat is in feite wat het huidige importscript ook doet met de adresposities-dataset die nu gebruikt wordt. Door de subadressen niet te gebruiken worden de diverse BUSNR's genegeerd. De adressen die nu in het script ingeladen worden zonder positie zijn naar mijn mening dus bisnummers (geen busnummers!). Als we deze dataset aanhouden, dan zouden deze punten de locatie van het overeenkomstige 'kale' nummer kunnen krijgen, met een kleine verschuiving dan. In deze dataset (adressenlijst) is ook de 'HERKOMST' opgenomen. Die zegt wel wat over de nauwkeurigheid. Zoals ik in mijn vorige mail schreef, is het dus misschien handig om deze op te nemen als tag om bij de import die informatie beschikbaar te hebben. Groeten, Thomas Sander Deryckere schreef op 24-10-2014 10:48: Op 24 oktober 2014 10:26 schreef Johan Van de Wauw johan.vandew...@gmail.com mailto:johan.vandew...@gmail.com: Sander, je baseert je beter op de CRAB adressen*lijst* in plaats van de CRAB adres*posities* https://download.agiv.be/Producten/Detail?id=447 Dan krijg je per adres maar 1 positie (de beste) en er zijn zelfs een aantal categorieën die niet in de adresposities zitten. Verwarrend - zeker wel. Johan Dat is idd zeer verwarrend. Ben nu de andere database aan het downloaden, aangezien er geen documentatie van is, wil ik die eerst wel eens bekijken. Groeten, Sander ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
2014-10-24 12:42 GMT+02:00 Thomas o...@aptum.nl: Ik heb die adressenlijst even gedownload en voor een paar straten bekeken. Dat verheldert ook wel een paar zaken. Weer kwam ik een geval tegen met als huisnummer 'ZN'. In deze lijst heeft hij echter wel een locatie meegekregen. Ik ken de betreffende plaats, en begrijp nu dat het een braakliggend perceel betreft waar in de nummering rekening is mee gehouden. Het huisnummer is dus nog niet toegekend, maar wel al gereserveerd, of zo iets. ZN komt soms ook voor bij de enige gebouwen in een straat. Bij bvb kloosters enzo. Er is hier ook ruimte voor interpretatie. Alle adressen hebben per huisnummer een locatie gekregen. Vervolgens is elk 'BUSNR' voor dat punt geregistreerd in een apart punt met dezelfde locatie. Zoals Sander zegt kunnen deze punten genegeerd worden, en volstaat het om de unieke 'HUISNR's in het script op te nemen. Al ligt het misschien toch net wat ingewikkelder. Voor een bepaalde locatie (Kastanjelaan, Oostende, rond huisnummer 2) zie ik 24 (!) punten op elkaar liggen. Het betreft een klein appartementsgebouw. Het veld 'APPTNR' is steeds leeg. Voor HUISNR zijn er de waarden 2, 2_107, 2_109, 2_209, 2_309, 2A en 2D. Al deze 'HUISNR's met een underscore hebben als herkomst 'geinterpoleerdObvNevenliggendeHuisnummersGebouw'. In de dataset die ingeladen wordt met het script van Sander waren die 4 huisnummers met een underscore inderdaad de 4 punten die als 'zonder locatie' geregistreerd waren. In deze dataset hebben ze dus wel een locatie, maar vallen ze samen met het kale huisnr. Het CRAB in Oostende is nog niet initieel gevalideerd, wat zoveel wil zeggen dan dat er eigenlijk enkel een automatische import gebeurd is van allerlei bestanden. https://www.agiv.be/producten/crab/meer-info-over-crab/afgeleide-producten-onderdelen/initiele-validatie Mvg, Johan ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tag; definitie voor een garage straat
Andre Engels schreef op 24/10/2014 om 12:21: Oeps, te snel op enter gedrukt. Waar ik access=no, foot=yes zeg, bedoel ik access=private, foot=yes. André 2014-10-24 12:20 GMT+02:00 Andre Engels andreeng...@gmail.com: Zeker geen noexit=no toevoegen. Dat is niet bedoeld voor gevallen waar de weg voor bepaalde groepen (voetgangers bijvoorbeeld) wel degelijk doorgaat (en ook in andere gevallen is het naar mijn mening slechts een hint voor andere mappers, geen wezenlijk onderdeel voor gebruikers). Ikzelf zou de voorkeur geven aan service=alley boven service=parking_aisle voor dit geval (al moet ik toegeven dat ik dit in de praktijk tag als highway=service zonder service-tag, wat geloof ik ook niet de bedoeling is). Het bord C3 - uitgezonderd plaatselijk verkeer kun je beschrijven met access=no, foot=yes of access=destination, al naar gelang hoe je 'plaatselijk verkeer' definieert. André 2014-10-24 12:08 GMT+02:00 Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com: Dag, Situatie: Huizen rij langs straat. Elk huis met een lange smalle tuin naar achteren toe. Er is een geasfalteerde straatje die achter de tuinen loopt. Waardoor men in die tuinen een garage kon bouwen, dus toegang via zoals wij hier zeggen een garagestraatje. bord C3 uitzonderlijk plaatselijk verkeer het straatje stopt ter hoogte van een barrier paaltje voetgangers en fietsers kunnen verder.Werd ingevoerd. Het verkeersbord F45 doodlopende straat, staat aan de ingang van de wijk moet ik voor dit garagestraatje noexit=no handmatig toevoegen? Zie 50.7892212,3.1862567 service=parking_aisle of is er daarvoor een betere tag. Jakka ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com Bedankt Die tag nuances liggen gevoelig bij elkaar. Zie de hiërarchie nog niet goed genoeg. Via tag venster klik ik algemene beschrijving van object en krijg een invul venster, maar daar staat niet alles op. Een restrictie komt er pas bij als je er één zelf hebt toegevoegd. Ik probeer hier de mosterd te halen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features?setlang=nl Jakka ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tag; definitie voor een garage straat
On 2014-10-24 12:20, Andre Engels wrote : Zeker geen noexit=no toevoegen. Dat is niet bedoeld voor gevallen waar de weg voor bepaalde groepen (voetgangers bijvoorbeeld) wel degelijk doorgaat (en ook in andere gevallen is het naar mijn mening slechts een hint voor andere mappers, geen wezenlijk onderdeel voor gebruikers). Add hardly noexit = no. It is not intended for cases where the way for certain groups (eg pedestrians) indeed go on (and in other cases it is in my opinion just a hint for other mappers, not an essential part of users). Speaking of what noexit=no is intended for rather than not intended for... It means that a small gap in the road topology is not an error (roads coming close to one another but not connected), that it is normal that the cars cannot pass the gap. It is mainly made to stop quality assurance from complaining with unconnected ways, to stop the mapper trying to fix a nonexiting nonexisting error and to warn the map reader that the gap is almost invisible. Routers (GPS) do not need that tag. It is not an access restriction tag. It must obviously be coded on a node, at one end of the way. André. * Dutch - detected * English * French * Russian * English * French * Russian javascript:void(0); ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Bah, Daar waar ik dacht dat we aan de eindspurt richting goeie tools bezig waren, staan we terug aan het begin. Na een maand programmeren. Ik heb nu even geen zin meer om het script van CRAB naar JSON te herschrijven voor die andere database structuur. Ik vind het goed genoeg zoals het is. Hebben we die enkele voordeurlocaties echt nodig? Enkel toegang tot de gebouwcontouren zou een echt nieuwe uitdaging geven (en met nut). Maar als iemand zin heeft om er verder aan te werken, de code is vrij om te forken. Mvg, Sander ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
2014-10-24 13:57 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com: Ik heb nu even geen zin meer om het script van CRAB naar JSON te herschrijven voor die andere database structuur. Ik zal er eens naar kijken sander. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Ik wil ook wel meehelpen als ik nuttig kan zijn. Testen/bugchecken, browser tests, laat maar weten waarmee en ik help mee. Delegeer gerust. Glenn On 24-10-14 14:39, Ben Abelshausen wrote: 2014-10-24 13:57 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com mailto:sander...@gmail.com: Ik heb nu even geen zin meer om het script van CRAB naar JSON te herschrijven voor die andere database structuur. Ik zal er eens naar kijken sander. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Everything is going to be 200 OK. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Ik ga ook even kijken wat ik kan met het script. De structuur van de adressenlijst lijkt mij een stuk minder complex dan die van de posities. Groeten, Thomas Glenn Plas schreef op 24-10-2014 15:15: Ik wil ook wel meehelpen als ik nuttig kan zijn. Testen/bugchecken, browser tests, laat maar weten waarmee en ik help mee. Delegeer gerust. Glenn On 24-10-14 14:39, Ben Abelshausen wrote: 2014-10-24 13:57 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com mailto:sander...@gmail.com: Ik heb nu even geen zin meer om het script van CRAB naar JSON te herschrijven voor die andere database structuur. Ik zal er eens naar kijken sander. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
Vergeet niet de gebruikelijke character set problemen, UTF8 , Latin1 etc. Dat is denk ik nog hetgeen je meest mee bezig zal zijn. (regex+UTF8= fun fun ) Maar los daarvan kunnen we voortbouwen op een degelijke basis gelegd door Sander. Glenn On 24-10-14 15:26, Thomas wrote: Ik ga ook even kijken wat ik kan met het script. De structuur van de adressenlijst lijkt mij een stuk minder complex dan die van de posities. Groeten, Thomas Glenn Plas schreef op 24-10-2014 15:15: Ik wil ook wel meehelpen als ik nuttig kan zijn. Testen/bugchecken, browser tests, laat maar weten waarmee en ik help mee. Delegeer gerust. Glenn On 24-10-14 14:39, Ben Abelshausen wrote: 2014-10-24 13:57 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com mailto:sander...@gmail.com: Ik heb nu even geen zin meer om het script van CRAB naar JSON te herschrijven voor die andere database structuur. Ik zal er eens naar kijken sander. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Everything is going to be 200 OK. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] import AGIV CRAB-data
De character set van de posities database was cp720. Ik had er nog nooit van gehoord, maar het plezante is dat de encoderingen van é, ë en è in die character set net illegale encoderingen zijn volgens UTF-8. Waardoor je python script crasht als het die tegenkwam. Zie http://www.lingua-systems.com/unicode-converter/unicode-mappings/encode-cp720-to-utf-8-unicode.html Op 24 oktober 2014 15:43 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be: Vergeet niet de gebruikelijke character set problemen, UTF8 , Latin1 etc. Dat is denk ik nog hetgeen je meest mee bezig zal zijn. (regex+UTF8= fun fun ) Maar los daarvan kunnen we voortbouwen op een degelijke basis gelegd door Sander. Glenn On 24-10-14 15:26, Thomas wrote: Ik ga ook even kijken wat ik kan met het script. De structuur van de adressenlijst lijkt mij een stuk minder complex dan die van de posities. Groeten, Thomas Glenn Plas schreef op 24-10-2014 15:15: Ik wil ook wel meehelpen als ik nuttig kan zijn. Testen/bugchecken, browser tests, laat maar weten waarmee en ik help mee. Delegeer gerust. Glenn On 24-10-14 14:39, Ben Abelshausen wrote: 2014-10-24 13:57 GMT+02:00 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com mailto:sander...@gmail.com: Ik heb nu even geen zin meer om het script van CRAB naar JSON te herschrijven voor die andere database structuur. Ik zal er eens naar kijken sander. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Everything is going to be 200 OK. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world's best addressable map)
crossposting from the talk mailing list, where address imports are also discussed at the moment. -- Forwarded message -- From: Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr Date: Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world's best addressable map) To: OpenStreetMap t...@openstreetmap.org Addresses in France... We started a project to collect addresses on a separate database called BANO (Base d'Adresses Nationale Ouverte : Open National Address Database). We've recreated data from the national cadastre (scrapping 1.3 millions PDF files), opendata source and... OSM. This database contains 15+ millions addresses so far, and we added almost 4 millions hamlet and locality names recently. A full dump contains 19.7 millions locations ranging from housenumber to municipalities (no POI). Why we did it that way ? Import of millions of address can be done quick and dirty in a couple of days, but such a blind import does not really fit the import policy and we also learned from the TIGER import that fixing data is much less fun than creating new data. Why import all this if the data is available (under ODbL) ? It seems much better to take the required time to import these data street by street, reviewing it to make sure we improve its quality and not just copy it. This will take years, many years (from 5 to 20) depending on how deep to review the data before the upload. Some contributors have started this work, but it is really boring and I don't expect we can attract a large bunch of contributors on that project. Anyway, BANO updates its content every night and collects new OSM addresses to replace other sources. So it also take advantage of address reviewing/fixing done in OSM during this import process or during any address related contribution. What is much more interesting is that OSM contributors can use BANO to detect missing roads/streets and names (we have a BANO tiled overlay showing missing names like here http://layers.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=18lat=48.8474lon=3.23191layers=BFT ). This seems much more useful as we're far from having all roads and streets mapped and named in France. We can even see this BANO effect on some graphs: http://osm2020.free.fr/qa-commune/popu-sans-route-name-france.png Yes, something happened last may... BANO started to be available at that time and the population for which no nearby named road was present as decreased almost twice faster since then. You can see also the missing names graph here: http://munin.openstreetmap.fr/osm12.free.org/osm104.openstreetmap.fr/bano_rapproche.html More than 100.000 names have been added since may. To summarize... yes, address are really an important dataset, mainly because it allows to cross the boundary between non geographic data (postal addresses) and geographic data with the help of (good) geocoding algorithm. This allows to bring a lot of new data users to OSM by providing the data fuel for services like routing from address A to address B. Some public services web sites have started using OSM + BANO that way. This also allows to geocode new (open) datasets to improve OSM with more interesting data (we're about to do this for almost 3 pharmacy). Is it mandatory to have the huge address datasets in OSM ? Maybe not, and not if the import process does not bring any improvement to the data. Mappers' time seems to me much better used for less mechanical contributions. -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Modus operandi of the board
On Oct 23, 2014, at 03:00 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: I think it is reasonable postpone elections for three months considering current turmoil. Leaving aside any question about the merits of this, I don't believe it is possible. Notice has been given of the AGM, and an election must be held at the AGM (AOA 31). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
As Paul said, leaving aside any merits of this (there are plenty of other threads going on to discuss that), can we have some brainstorming on the mechanics of how it might work? There have been a few suggestions for ways to essentially reboot the board, but I am not familiar enough with the bylaws/AoA to know how we might go about doing it. Is there *any* mechanism to put a new question to the full membership in the upcoming election, or is it too late for that? I'm assuming we can't postpone the coming election, but could we ask the electorate to vote to hold another election in 3 months? If not, can we come up with some ideas for a way outside the formal AGM structure to essentially poll the full membership that could be seen as a legitimate representation of their wishes? Any other ideas are welcome, or anyone who is more familiar with the AoA, please chime in. (I probably can't dive into them until this weekend) On Oct 24, 2014 9:20 AM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote: On Oct 23, 2014, at 03:00 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: I think it is reasonable postpone elections for three months considering current turmoil. Leaving aside any question about the merits of this, I don't believe it is possible. Notice has been given of the AGM, and an election must be held at the AGM (AOA 31). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GoPro video traces?
Am 23.10.2014 um 20:24 schrieb David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com: I have sent a couple of emails to action cam manufacturers requesting a distance lapse function. I typically see higher offset/imprecision/wandering around when standing still on the phone GPS than what I think would make sense to set as distance between 2 photos. I'm on iPhone4S, maybe more recent phones do better, but I doubt it, as the antenna seems to be the main problem. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap ten years on, and why it's time for a fresh slate
This one's going to be long, but it might be worth it, I hope. I've been involved in OSM for almost ten years now. 22nd November is my OSM birthday: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2004-November/000111.html Message 000111. Right now talk@ is up to 71235, never mind the other lists. Come to Charlbury on the 22nd, I'll buy you all a drink and find you somewhere to sleep. (Don't tell Anna.) OSM has changed my life, and my outlook, in several ways. One is realising that a small number of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world, without any hope of a fast buck - which is a noble idea we all have in our 20s but this was the first real-life proof, to me, that it really does work. The other, perhaps more important, is: it's down to you. If you want change, change things. In 2005 we expressed this by demanding action, not words, from anyone who said 'OSM should do it like this' on the lists. The word 'should' was a red rag to us back then. In time the word 'do-ocracy' was coined. But the other half of the do-ocracy equation has never received enough credit. It's not just that actions speak louder than words; it's that we trust you to carry out the actions. OSM doesn't have a moderation system for edits. Site improvements don't have to go through five board committees. It's OSM. You're a contributor. You've given us your time. We trust you. Do great things. That, more than anything, is why OSM works. We value, and trust, our contributors. Every one of them. OSM is 'do great things' multiplied by ten thousand. The slight wrinkle is that this only gets you 95% of the way there. The 95% is astonishing. The 95% is mapping large parts of the world to ridiculous levels of detail. We are by most metrics the best available map of Germany, the UK, increasingly France, Russia and the urban US, and a hundred places I don't even know about. (I made this comment elsewhere. I was immediately picked up by a Belgian mapper, Marc, saying hey, what about us?. He was right. I didn't know. That's how far we have come.) The 95% is running the most crazily lean, efficient hardware setup, constantly reinventing: our API went from plain-old-Ruby to Rails to C++, our tile servers from monolithic to distributed, our database from MySQL to Postgres, our UI from entirely serverside to largely clientside. The 95% is an ecosystem of renderers and routers and, dare I admit it, the sleekest desktop map data editor there is and its universe of amazing plugins. (It begins with J. Don't make me say the name.) So if I talk about the 5% that do-ocracy doesn't accomplish, that's no slur on the OSM community. Our 5% is Wikipedia's 30% and Google's 95%. We do more, ourselves, better, than anyone else. Rewind to 2012. It was pretty clear we needed a new default editor on osm.org. Potlatch 2 still worked, but Flash Player was already (rightly) on the way out, and the six-year-old Potlatch user interface - initially designed for moderately clued-up users working on a blank canvas back in 2006 - was confusing for the newbies attracted by the explosion of public interest in OSM. This was a 5% problem. We needed a new beginners' editor, but no-one was clamouring to write it. The 95% of experienced OSMers, understandably, wanted to work on JOSM plugins for experienced OSMers. I tentatively started work on a newbie-friendly JavaScript editor called iD (I'm terrible at naming software) but I was pretty burned out on OSM development at the time and only got so far. Happily, in this case, there was a Fairy Godmother in the shape of the Knight Foundation and Mapbox. The Knight Foundation funded Mapbox to rebuild and complete iD. As part of this some incredibly skilled JavaScript developers and designers got to work on it. I don't think the outcome could have been any better, and it continues to delight me right now: while we're pointlessly beating seven shades out of each other in this thread, osmbot: [osm-website|master|John Firebaugh] Update to iD v1.6.1 has just flashed up on IRC. iD is how it ought to work. iD isn't telling the 95% how to map or what to map. It isn't saying Mapbox want turn restrictions, therefore the osm.org default will be devoted to mapping turn restrictions. It's simply a 5% intervention, a new tool which no-one else was writing, to increase the 95% of do-ers, to bring us more contributors. The effort in building it will benefit us many times over. But we can't always expect a Fairy Godmother to appear. We struck lucky in this one case. There are plenty of places where we haven't. I can recite a few of them. We have very little mobile presence, even though smartphones are ideal surveying devices; a 5% intervention here would bring so many more people to our 95%. Diversity is almost becoming a hackneyed word in OSM but let's restate the truth of it; a 5% intervention would make sure that our 95% of do-ers grows to
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
Hi, On 10/24/2014 10:41 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Is there *any* mechanism to put a new question to the full membership in the upcoming election, or is it too late for that? The board does not have to call AGMs or do elections. I don't know if legally it is too late to cancel the already-announced AGM and election but I guess we could simply do it - if we don't show up then there's no AGM. It would require a board decision. [...] If we don't manage to get a board majority to postpone the whole thing, there's something else we could do at least: Ask those who stand for election to commit to calling a new GM within a certain time frame, and offer the membership a reboot option. (Quite frankly, the term limit that's being discussed is nice but I'd prefer a simple rule that says, at least for the reboot, that nobody who ever had a board seat is eligible. Fresh faces strictly.) Then our members could elect these people and they could then plan the reboot from the inside. It would not be as strong as an AGM resolution but better than nothing. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Download source of all wikipages?
Hi, is it possible to download the complete source of all wiki pages from wiki.openstreetmap.org - preferably as highly compressed tarball? I am frequently finding that without a full regexp search it is very easy to miss important bits of information and related/similar tags so a copy at home where I could apply all of my unix tools for search would be very convenient. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
Hi, On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 01:32:19PM +0200, Marc Gemis wrote: So don't you expect pressure from companies using OSM for navigation and geocoding to add more addresses ? Or do you expect them to use many different datasources ? I dont get this? pressure? On what basis? You get the OSM data on a take it or leave it basis. If it doesnt suit your need you are free to spend an arbitrary amount of money to buy datasets which better suit your needs. OSM comes without any guarantees. Me personally i love addresses which might be the cause for 40K addresses i have added to OSM in the past years. I am absolutely optimistic that addresscompletion for example for Germany wont take more than 3 years. So by 2017 we'll have all Adresses. Its just a matter of time and i am very relaxed about this. When i started with OSM in 2007 i wouldnt have thought that we'll have that amount of Data in 2014 just 7 years later. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
OSM is not a melting pot for the world's open data and while there is a place for imports, every import will have to be carefully thought about and evaluated. Streamlining that process is not necessarily in the best interest of OpenStreetMap. What do you mean? Clearly it *is* in the interest of OSM unless you have a very different definition of OSM. In some areas of the map you would not see most of the data (or any data, really) were it not for imports. Nearby my home area Czech community did an awesome import of addresses and buildings. Now compare it with the Polish side: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.8719/18.5786 What is your vision for this specific area if there was no building/address import? Do you expect that in 1 or 5 or 10 years you would have the same level of coverage by local mappers? Regarding streamlining and imports in general - to be honest I don't see much point in the current (quite complex and lenghty) process for analyzing and blessing the good imports. Instead of putting up more walls between data and OSM the project should heavily invest in official backend (as in - *built-in into osm.org*) tools for detecting and manging (e.g. reverting) changes to the database. At this point there are tons of 3rd-party scripts but that will not scale and will lead to more calls for careful imports and that will of course lead to more barriers for people interested in importing data. Paweł ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Download source of all wikipages?
Hi Richard, https://dump.wiki.openstreetmap.org (currently offline) had daily exports of the wiki. I will try bring it back online in the next few days. Kind regards, Grant Part of OSM sysadmin team. On 24 October 2014 10:58, Richard Z. ricoz@gmail.com wrote: Hi, is it possible to download the complete source of all wiki pages from wiki.openstreetmap.org - preferably as highly compressed tarball? I am frequently finding that without a full regexp search it is very easy to miss important bits of information and related/similar tags so a copy at home where I could apply all of my unix tools for search would be very convenient. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Overpass turbo Has it been amended?
Ok, so you recommend to use QL instead of XML. Is there some feature that are in QL and not in XML ? The XML will be maintained for how long ? and quickosm should switch from XML to QL in the short term ? Currently, all features are available in both XML and QL variants, but the most recent additions have only been announced and documented for the QL language. I don't think that the XML language will be dumped anytime soon. Maybe Roland can tell us more about his long-term plans about deprecating the XML language. Thank you for bringing up this question. Acouple of people have asked me in personal communication, but I haven't made so far a public statement to bring clarity. Both languages have unlimited support. The software is designed in such a way such that the XML syntax makes no extra effort. In fact, the names of the statements are the names of the internal classes, so the XML support is tightly integrated. QL makes a little bit more effort with a dedicated parser, but that language has a couple of advantages: It is more briefly, which simplfies to write and publish code of it. Secondly, most programmers are nowadays familiar with C-style syntax, so there is less learning effort. The probably most striking aspect might be a cultural. Forced updates are amongst the things in the software world I hate most, so I would not deprecate things unless I'm absolutely forced to do so. The program code by design doesn't require deprecation, so it is unlikely that I would deprecate one of the languages soon. Another issue is documentation. I'm lagging behind a lot in this regard. And to catch up more quickly with incoming minor fixes and extensions, I would prefer to write the documentation for QL only in the future and publish for the XML syntax just a translation help. Best regards, Roland ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
For me it is not unthinkable that once a company starts using OSM data for a commercial offering, they might start demanding to add that data. Of course they cannot demand anything from the community, but they can import the data, or some people might feel a need to import data, or... It's hard to explain in a foreign language and via mail. But for me, allowing (address) imports is already a form of obeying that marketing demand. Then OSM is no longer about people surveying and drawing from aerial images. regards m On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de wrote: Hi, On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 01:32:19PM +0200, Marc Gemis wrote: So don't you expect pressure from companies using OSM for navigation and geocoding to add more addresses ? Or do you expect them to use many different datasources ? I dont get this? pressure? On what basis? You get the OSM data on a take it or leave it basis. If it doesnt suit your need you are free to spend an arbitrary amount of money to buy datasets which better suit your needs. OSM comes without any guarantees. Me personally i love addresses which might be the cause for 40K addresses i have added to OSM in the past years. I am absolutely optimistic that addresscompletion for example for Germany wont take more than 3 years. So by 2017 we'll have all Adresses. Its just a matter of time and i am very relaxed about this. When i started with OSM in 2007 i wouldnt have thought that we'll have that amount of Data in 2014 just 7 years later. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iQIVAwUBVEoqZZDdQSDLCfIvAQoqfw//aT5y1P1GRJ69bJgLE1TnzDPKT3p9hJhU xr6lUPh/ZP5KKPdLqwpjyTRvLaVTf1+YfHgUkg032NF7gj17ygH8wXRODTIU5JVa 6zlkCMQC5XlQALTJtJ6vqjxfNzc/mxfJui7xfsoe6RP9OuRzHN2tZTJBx5nMBf4A +NUVNpw2rq4J97oZKeBnrPDZ24gzOEZ5zUSlvSs5oQlA4lc5XHlqF2IZO0OyPsnt rqMexE9t0wwsFFlZapw270EH3hIebohOHuHHfmdKA9EikjmHRHU9vrtxwPMGpxDV L7fWfrupuFjkL6M4ZjIuIFCHXCWLvNSFalN5grf6ospD0JJY+tdSoo26fiuHgX88 CQmxijgbFNOjrJjPmkMJM0GGJRE9LuA9qyQmA6j9laTXwV6Cx6e6HHxcPOsv/Tzz sKC7nlez9e/RqtQjB7B8AG1Dj7Hk/XlYDZa/T9+oIxj8JaxehuvV9gUi9ETNLm9l HLvVeJ5Aujj42Hu42S/6p6T25h/nBS4Fg1VdqfKgudfiW8eoBGy4iUVqfRsd6CE8 xf8wQlTGlYg0FuwpvldgIRUFhc72c4S8XYehGGI6YS9XV09NqTrcVqQBnqm4d9RU f8CMRkG4H8f7YRB7PUqTUAacvE/R7K8gFf4mnATC82QKcKZc4JT7usvhwRPiEdpm 7P1eB1jdTZQ= =cnQK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do
In the city of Karviná, in your example, these two industrial buildings are much larger in reality than imported: http://osm.org/go/0LZc_9WgW?m= http://osm.org/go/0LZc_2625?m= But they can be corrected in JOSM easily. And it is not a big deal. An excellent stadium and a soccer pitch are not mapped here: http://osm.org/go/0LZeTNDQl-?m= , it is not like some shed missing. But in general, the map of Karviná is impressive. Sometimes municipal databases were created in 90s, with obsolete equipment, by employees who could not care less. But sometimes they are of good or medium quality. An import can be reviewed and corrected with satellite imagery or a survey. So both approaches are mutually-reinforcing. brgds Oleksiy On 24.10.2014 12:48, Paweł Paprota wrote: ... did an awesome import of addresses and buildings. Now compare it with the Polish side: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/49.8719/18.5786 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
2014-10-24 13:17 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com: For me it is not unthinkable that once a company starts using OSM data for a commercial offering, they might start demanding to add that data. indeed, could happen from time to time ;-) Of course they cannot demand anything from the community, but they can import the data, or some people might feel a need to import data, or... But for me, allowing (address) imports is already a form of obeying that marketing demand. if you have address information in a suitable license to import it into OSM, you can do this. All that is required is that you check the data regarding its quality (accuracy, currentness etc.), document your plan, explain how you will merge existing data and discuss this with the local comunity and the experts on the import list. Then OSM is no longer about people surveying and drawing from aerial images. ? We'd still need to survey in order to do the maintenance work and correct errors. That's the main reason why imports are often seen as problematic: they will not create a comunity, rather there are indications that the growth of the comunity will slow down when everything looks completed, and then you'll have the same errors in our db than all the other people that have imported from the official source, and no-one near to fix them or feeling responsible for it. If the amount of errors is significant, more data will actively draw people away (fixing bugs is less appealing to many mappers than setting the first foot steps on white map canvas). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Download source of all wikipages?
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 11:54:38AM +0100, Grant Slater wrote: Hi Richard, https://dump.wiki.openstreetmap.org (currently offline) had daily exports of the wiki. I will try bring it back online in the next few days. ok, thanks for trying. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
? We'd still need to survey in order to do the maintenance work and correct errors. That's the main reason why imports are often seen as problematic: they will not create a comunity, rather there are indications that the growth of the comunity will slow down when everything looks completed, and then you'll have the same errors in our db than all the other people that have imported from the official source, and no-one near to fix them or feeling responsible for it. If the amount of errors is significant, more data will actively draw people away (fixing bugs is less appealing to many mappers than setting the first foot steps on white map canvas). I totally agree with you, But, I have the impression that people that do the imports don't do them to create a community. they do it to have the data in OSM. I've read things like we don't need to do updates, we can wait until the imported source is updated, they have thousands of paid people to update the data. Pawel Paprota's reaction is along the same lines for me: we could not have accomplished this amount of data without an import. Again no focus on the community or how the extra data is going to attract new mappers. This is a different OSM than I have in mind. regards m ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:05 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: We'd still need to survey in order to do the maintenance work and correct errors. That's the main reason why imports are often seen as problematic: they will not create a comunity, rather there are indications that the growth of the comunity will slow down when everything looks completed, and then you'll have the same errors in our db than all the other people that have imported from the official source, and no-one near to fix them or feeling responsible for it. If the amount of errors is significant, more data will actively draw people away (fixing bugs is less appealing to many mappers than setting the first foot steps on white map canvas). I disagree that import do not create community. We build a strong community around an import, and address import. That community continues to grow. We even discovered that having an address node makes it easier to new mappers to add POI information to the node and to nudge it to the entrance. It is correct that imports can create more maintenance work. But then it gives us motivation to add encourage more mappers. If users of our data want addresses, demanding it isn't going to make it happen. If they want specific features, we give them ways to help us achieve those goal. Such as help fund OSM, help us grow the community, fund the development of betters tools, help us get our story out. etc. We shouldn't be afraid, we should embrace these requests. Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
2014-10-24 14:14 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com: I totally agree with you, But, I have the impression that people that do the imports don't do them to create a community. they do it to have the data in OSM. Don't you think that more data = more people eager to add notes about what's missing? Eg. nearly noone wants to add bunch of notes about missing addresses. When you make import, people are starting make notes about imprecise data. At least that's my observation regarding data in Poland. -- *Paweł Marynowski* user:Yarl Stowarzyszenie OpenStreetMap Polska http://osm.org.pl/ http://fb.com/osmpolska/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 2:55 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: If we don't manage to get a board majority to postpone the whole thing, there's something else we could do at least: Ask those who stand for election to commit to calling a new GM within a certain time frame, and offer the membership a reboot option. Frederik, Thanks for digging into the AoA. As I read the AoA it appears that we can request a vote on a special resolution. Not sure the mechanics of submitting a special resolution. In other associations I belonged to in the US there was a number, usually expressed as a percentage of the membership that was required to sign off on the resolution before it would be accepted by the Board for a vote. Keeping with the spirit of the AoA, we are required to hold a vote for board members if the last GM was more than 12 months. I am not comfortable with amending the vote to 0 people. I do like your suggestion that we go ahead with the vote on the current candidates and with a special resolution to call for a vote within 3 months for new board members. The three month period would serve two purposes. First it would give us a cooling off period. These conversations have been too personal. Second, it would give us time to properly assess the candidates and submit other resolutions as we deem necessary. Two of the resolutions I'd like to see put to a debate and vote are 1) requiring the Board to conduct annual surveys of the membership and 2) develop an OSM vision. I am happy to help draft the resolutions but need help with the process. Thanks, Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Fwd: Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world’s best addressable map)
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Paweł Marynowski y...@openstreetmap.pl wrote: Don't you think that more data = more people eager to add notes about what's missing? Eg. nearly noone wants to add bunch of notes about missing addresses. When you make import, people are starting make notes about imprecise data. At least that's my observation regarding data in Poland. Exactly. Now it'd be great if we at least had some means to reply back to anonymous users who add notes. GitHub issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/776 My observation is that GitHub issues with its accept/reject/leave forever conclusion to every discussion are not exactly a best place for a coordinated development. Also, users want to have everything, developers want to write as little code as needed (because they are volunteers not paid by OSMF) and the OSM as a system stays in a hiatus. Software (both the editor and consumer side) is as important as data and community. On that topic, I was going to write a rant about how bad apps that use OSM data are (OsmAnd, MapFactor, be-on-road and many others). Assuming that our map data are the best in many places, these apps would be so popular. They aren't, because they either are awkward to use, or try to do everything while not doing any single thing well. Good software - more users who either edit or report errors - better community. That is my opinion. Michał ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
Hi Clifford, Just a couple comments on your resolutions. On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 6:26 AM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 2:55 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Two of the resolutions I'd like to see put to a debate and vote are 1) requiring the Board to conduct annual surveys of the membership and 2) develop an OSM vision. I am happy to help draft the resolutions but need help with the process. I actually don't think it makes sense for the membership to approach things by passing a bunch of resolutions requiring the board to do things. I think certainly a drastic resolution like dismantling the entire board and starting again is the type of resolution that would be something to come from the membership. Acting in the interest of the membership would be to conduct an annual survey and develop a vision. Though really that would be something that could happen as part of a fairly normal board strategic planning process. I'd view this as being approached simply through the matter of the new board finding common ground and better ways to approach the business of running the OSMF. Meaning maybe a survey isn't the best way to determine things, maybe there is another way. Rather than dictate the approach the board should be tasked with doing what is in the best interest of the organization. A part of this I would see as working with a facilitator and others to educate board members in what generally it means from a legal and operational standpoint to be on a board. Best, -Kate Thanks, Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: I actually don't think it makes sense for the membership to approach things by passing a bunch of resolutions requiring the board to do things. I think certainly a drastic resolution like dismantling the entire board and starting again is the type of resolution that would be something to come from the membership. Acting in the interest of the membership would be to conduct an annual survey and develop a vision. Though really that would be something that could happen as part of a fairly normal board strategic planning process. I'd view this as being approached simply through the matter of the new board finding common ground and better ways to approach the business of running the OSMF. Meaning maybe a survey isn't the best way to determine things, maybe there is another way. Rather than dictate the approach the board should be tasked with doing what is in the best interest of the organization. A part of this I would see as working with a facilitator and others to educate board members in what generally it means from a legal and operational standpoint to be on a board. My concern is that the Board will use it's perception of how OSM should operate without consulting the community. Or as a worst case, do nothing. A proper survey, with published results, not only helps the Board's decision gives us a framework for community discussions. We have many smart people that do not participate on the mailing lists. Getting their input will be difficult but we need to hear from as many people as possible. A survey does face the obstacles of language, cost, time and apathy. I applaud the use of a facilitator. As a former, and I might and really bad facilitator, their skills can help the Board reach good decisions. But even the best facilitator can't help if there isn't good data for the decisions. Lastly, it is still the Boards responsibility to make good decisions. They may not always agree with the community, for example, diversity, but the Board should be expected to do the right thing and to explain why they did. -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] The world’s best [Cycling] map
Hi Steve Coast has a vested interest in encouraging others to add addressing to OSM. http://stevecoast.com/2013/09/03/mapping-my-next-adventure/ I, too, have a vested interest: in cycling (because I bloody love doing it). I ask, nay, demand, that everyone down tools, stop what they are doing map all cycling infrastructure, to make OSM the world's best map for riders of bikes. I'm joking/being mildly sarcastic, of course. OSM is a 'Do it yourself' - mappers add what interests them. With a diverse enough crowd we end up with a database that contains info for a wide variety of uses. I don't find adding addresses fun so I don't do it. I wouldn't dream of telling someone what we 'need' to map. Someone recently added all trees to a local university campus. To my eyes, completely pointless, but he wanted to do it, so more power to him. SC quote: what’s stopping us replacing proprietary maps... is addressing He's speaking from his vested interest position - SatNavs, which is just one small segment of OSM's uses. In many areas OSM is, all be it slower than I'd like, replacing proprietary maps. More web pages are embedding OSM slippy maps especially in the UK as a free to use map compared with Ordnance Survey. Unfortunately Google is still seen as the leader in the field due to the biased, free promotion it gets from media outlets like the BBC. I don't know how that can be overcome, but I don't think adding addresses is it. SC quote: So why don’t we go do that? I've little interest on OSMF, or the board as I rather go outside map. Dave F --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
FWIW, I'm also wary of resolutions dictating how the board operates. I think that a survey (or similar) is a good idea, but as Kate says, it doesn't require a resolution. Direct democracy is cumbersome and often lacks nuance, which is why it's so infrequently used. Representative democracies and their ilk are far more common simply because they are far more efficient. If I'm understanding this correctly, in the next week or so, before proxy voting begins, we could ask the board to make a decision to include a nonbinding resolution or, essentially a good faith resolution on the ballot. If that passes the board, it could be on the ballot, and give direction to the newly elected board to take [some action]. If it were voted in, the board wouldn't legally have to do [some action], but hopefully would follow the wishes of the electorate. Is that a fair reading of what you said, Frederik? On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: I actually don't think it makes sense for the membership to approach things by passing a bunch of resolutions requiring the board to do things. I think certainly a drastic resolution like dismantling the entire board and starting again is the type of resolution that would be something to come from the membership. Acting in the interest of the membership would be to conduct an annual survey and develop a vision. Though really that would be something that could happen as part of a fairly normal board strategic planning process. I'd view this as being approached simply through the matter of the new board finding common ground and better ways to approach the business of running the OSMF. Meaning maybe a survey isn't the best way to determine things, maybe there is another way. Rather than dictate the approach the board should be tasked with doing what is in the best interest of the organization. A part of this I would see as working with a facilitator and others to educate board members in what generally it means from a legal and operational standpoint to be on a board. My concern is that the Board will use it's perception of how OSM should operate without consulting the community. Or as a worst case, do nothing. A proper survey, with published results, not only helps the Board's decision gives us a framework for community discussions. We have many smart people that do not participate on the mailing lists. Getting their input will be difficult but we need to hear from as many people as possible. A survey does face the obstacles of language, cost, time and apathy. I applaud the use of a facilitator. As a former, and I might and really bad facilitator, their skills can help the Board reach good decisions. But even the best facilitator can't help if there isn't good data for the decisions. Lastly, it is still the Boards responsibility to make good decisions. They may not always agree with the community, for example, diversity, but the Board should be expected to do the right thing and to explain why they did. -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best [Cycling] map
Hi Dave, The Danube Cycle Path (Donauradweg) is arguably one of the best in the world. Here is a camping site for cyclists near Linz: http://osm.org/go/0JhPQJjmt--?m= . As you can see the camping site is mapped with an address and a name. There are such camping sites every 40 - 50 kilometers. There is usually a kitchen, washing machines, etc. Everything in excellent condition and affordable. The Danube Cycle Path (Donauradweg) goes all the way from Vienna to Linz, to Passau, on so on for hundreds kilometers on both sides of the Danube river. It is very popular route. During a long distance cycling tour one may want to visit also a bicycle shop for a repair, a hospital or a pharmacy, a supermarket, sometimes a hotel, etc. In such a case almost everything is cycling infrastructure. Best regards Oleksiy On 24.10.2014 17:29, Dave F. wrote: ... I, too, have a vested interest: in cycling (because I bloody love doing it). I ask, nay, demand, that everyone down tools, stop what they are doing map all cycling infrastructure, to make OSM the world's best map for riders of bikes. ... I don't find adding addresses fun so I don't do it. ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best [Cycling] map
Hi Oleksiy On 24/10/2014 17:11, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote: ...In such a case almost everything is cycling infrastructure. My exact point. If everybody adds the bits they find useful or fun then, as I said we end up with: 'a database that contains info for a wide variety of uses.' Cheers Dave F. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Missing Maps article in New Scientist
Hi This week's New Scientist magazine (no 2992) has an article about the Missing Maps project. You can read it in full on their website. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429924.100-slumdog-mapmakers-fill-in-the-urban-blanks.html?full=true JC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best [Cycling] map
OSM is a good place to document information about these various circuits. I wonder if there is any relation like for Camino de Santiago trail to document such cycling route infrastructures, adding in a relation the infrastructures such as campings, repair shops, etc. Pierre De : Oleksiy Muzalyev oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch À : Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com; OSM Talk talk@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Vendredi 24 octobre 2014 12h11 Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best [Cycling] map Hi Dave, The Danube Cycle Path (Donauradweg) is arguably one of the best in the world. Here is a camping site for cyclists near Linz: http://osm.org/go/0JhPQJjmt--?m= . As you can see the camping site is mapped with an address and a name. There are such camping sites every 40 - 50 kilometers. There is usually a kitchen, washing machines, etc. Everything in excellent condition and affordable. The Danube Cycle Path (Donauradweg) goes all the way from Vienna to Linz, to Passau, on so on for hundreds kilometers on both sides of the Danube river. It is very popular route. During a long distance cycling tour one may want to visit also a bicycle shop for a repair, a hospital or a pharmacy, a supermarket, sometimes a hotel, etc. In such a case almost everything is cycling infrastructure. Best regards Oleksiy On 24.10.2014 17:29, Dave F. wrote: ... I, too, have a vested interest: in cycling (because I bloody love doing it). I ask, nay, demand, that everyone down tools, stop what they are doing map all cycling infrastructure, to make OSM the world's best map for riders of bikes. ... I don't find adding addresses fun so I don't do it. ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best [Cycling] map
Hi Pierre, There are probably many such cycle paths. I cycled myself at North Sea Cycle Route [1], from Hamburg to Copenhagen, Chesapeake Ohio (Great Allegheny Passage) [2] from Washington D.C. to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and Danube Cycle Path. The map is always a critical item, as a speed of a bicycle and cyclists' endurance are limited. There is not much margin for an error, especially if it is getting dark, or if it rains, etc. Everybody uses a map constantly on a cycling tour. brgds Oleksiy [1] http://www.northsea-cycle.com/ [2] http://bikewashington.org/canal/ http://www.atatrail.org/ On 24.10.2014 18:39, Pierre Béland wrote: OSM is a good place to document information about these various circuits. I wonder if there is any relation like for Camino de Santiago trail to document such cycling route infrastructures, adding in a relation the infrastructures such as campings, repair shops, etc. Pierre ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best [Cycling] map
2014-10-24 18:39 GMT+02:00 Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr: adding in a relation the infrastructures such as campings, repair shops, etc. why would you need a relation for this? There is already a spatial relation as soon as you insert this stuff. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best [Cycling] map
Like for a bus route, a relation let's you follow the path and see the infrastructures associated with this. Look for this example at this relation that combines various ways. You can also include nodes. For a bike circuits, the various services along the circuit could be included to better document. This would be useful for specialized maps.OpenStreetMap | Relation : Camino de Santiago de Gran Canaria (2111069) Pierre De : Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com À : Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr Cc : Oleksiy Muzalyev oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch; Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com; OSM Talk talk@openstreetmap.org Envoyé le : Vendredi 24 octobre 2014 13h03 Objet : Re: [OSM-talk] The world’s best [Cycling] map 2014-10-24 18:39 GMT+02:00 Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr: adding in a relation the infrastructures such as campings, repair shops, etc. why would you need a relation for this? There is already a spatial relation as soon as you insert this stuff. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Missing Maps article in New Scientist
Interesting what sort of smart phones / process are they using and can we get some to other areas? Thanks John On 24 October 2014 12:28, jc...@mail.com wrote: Hi This week's New Scientist magazine (no 2992) has an article about the Missing Maps project. You can read it in full on their website. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429924.100-slumdog-mapmakers-fill-in-the-urban-blanks.html?full=true JC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Missing Maps article in New Scientist
Hi John, I'm not sure if the article originally mentioned HOT when you read it, but it does now. Missing Maps is an initiative HOT is involved in, so these are the very same processes we've been using in various countries over the past 4 years. Typically using Field Papers and JOSM as well as GPS units. The plan is certainly to work in multiple places. Best, -Kate On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 10:49 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting what sort of smart phones / process are they using and can we get some to other areas? Thanks John On 24 October 2014 12:28, jc...@mail.com wrote: Hi This week's New Scientist magazine (no 2992) has an article about the Missing Maps project. You can read it in full on their website. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429924.100-slumdog-mapmakers-fill-in-the-urban-blanks.html?full=true JC ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ HOT mailing list h...@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world's best addressable map)
Addresses in France... We started a project to collect addresses on a separate database called BANO (Base d'Adresses Nationale Ouverte : Open National Address Database). We've recreated data from the national cadastre (scrapping 1.3 millions PDF files), opendata source and... OSM. This database contains 15+ millions addresses so far, and we added almost 4 millions hamlet and locality names recently. A full dump contains 19.7 millions locations ranging from housenumber to municipalities (no POI). Why we did it that way ? Import of millions of address can be done quick and dirty in a couple of days, but such a blind import does not really fit the import policy and we also learned from the TIGER import that fixing data is much less fun than creating new data. Why import all this if the data is available (under ODbL) ? It seems much better to take the required time to import these data street by street, reviewing it to make sure we improve its quality and not just copy it. This will take years, many years (from 5 to 20) depending on how deep to review the data before the upload. Some contributors have started this work, but it is really boring and I don't expect we can attract a large bunch of contributors on that project. Anyway, BANO updates its content every night and collects new OSM addresses to replace other sources. So it also take advantage of address reviewing/fixing done in OSM during this import process or during any address related contribution. What is much more interesting is that OSM contributors can use BANO to detect missing roads/streets and names (we have a BANO tiled overlay showing missing names like here http://layers.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=18lat=48.8474lon=3.23191layers=BFT ). This seems much more useful as we're far from having all roads and streets mapped and named in France. We can even see this BANO effect on some graphs: http://osm2020.free.fr/qa-commune/popu-sans-route-name-france.png Yes, something happened last may... BANO started to be available at that time and the population for which no nearby named road was present as decreased almost twice faster since then. You can see also the missing names graph here: http://munin.openstreetmap.fr/osm12.free.org/osm104.openstreetmap.fr/bano_rapproche.html More than 100.000 names have been added since may. To summarize... yes, address are really an important dataset, mainly because it allows to cross the boundary between non geographic data (postal addresses) and geographic data with the help of (good) geocoding algorithm. This allows to bring a lot of new data users to OSM by providing the data fuel for services like routing from address A to address B. Some public services web sites have started using OSM + BANO that way. This also allows to geocode new (open) datasets to improve OSM with more interesting data (we're about to do this for almost 3 pharmacy). Is it mandatory to have the huge address datasets in OSM ? Maybe not, and not if the import process does not bring any improvement to the data. Mappers' time seems to me much better used for less mechanical contributions. -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Postponing elections, or other alternatives (Was: Modus operandi of the board)
Hi, On 10/24/2014 05:56 PM, Kathleen Danielson wrote: If I'm understanding this correctly, in the next week or so, before proxy voting begins, we could ask the board to make a decision to include a nonbinding resolution or, essentially a good faith resolution on the ballot. Frankly I'm not sure about required timings here but under the Any other business point, any non-binding stuff could be decided on the spot by the members. It would however not have the benefit of remote participation through proxy votes then. I'd be fine with adding something to the ballot but that would need to go through the board, whereas doing something on the spot just requires a couple members grabbing the microphone and improvising. If that passes the board, it could be on the ballot, and give direction to the newly elected board to take [some action]. If it were voted in, the board wouldn't legally have to do [some action], but hopefully would follow the wishes of the electorate. If it wouldn't do [some action], the electorate could fore the newly elected board to hold a new GM that actually has a binding resolution on the agenda (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/303 and 304). If the board does not comply, the members can call a meeting themselves (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/305). Of course if the newly elected board were manipulative enough, they could only do half of [some action], thereby mollifying the members and robbing them of the energy to actually go through the forcing a meeting process. I don't claim to be well versed in UK companies law but perusing your favourite search engine with companies act 2006 plus whatever you're interested in will normally yield good results. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Addresses are a tiny fraction of what we do (was: The world's best addressable map)
Thanks a lot for sharing the methodology of the French community. I like this approach regards m On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr wrote: Addresses in France... We started a project to collect addresses on a separate database called BANO (Base d'Adresses Nationale Ouverte : Open National Address Database). We've recreated data from the national cadastre (scrapping 1.3 millions PDF files), opendata source and... OSM. This database contains 15+ millions addresses so far, and we added almost 4 millions hamlet and locality names recently. A full dump contains 19.7 millions locations ranging from housenumber to municipalities (no POI). Why we did it that way ? Import of millions of address can be done quick and dirty in a couple of days, but such a blind import does not really fit the import policy and we also learned from the TIGER import that fixing data is much less fun than creating new data. Why import all this if the data is available (under ODbL) ? It seems much better to take the required time to import these data street by street, reviewing it to make sure we improve its quality and not just copy it. This will take years, many years (from 5 to 20) depending on how deep to review the data before the upload. Some contributors have started this work, but it is really boring and I don't expect we can attract a large bunch of contributors on that project. Anyway, BANO updates its content every night and collects new OSM addresses to replace other sources. So it also take advantage of address reviewing/fixing done in OSM during this import process or during any address related contribution. What is much more interesting is that OSM contributors can use BANO to detect missing roads/streets and names (we have a BANO tiled overlay showing missing names like here http://layers.openstreetmap.fr/?zoom=18lat=48.8474lon=3.23191layers=BFT ). This seems much more useful as we're far from having all roads and streets mapped and named in France. We can even see this BANO effect on some graphs: http://osm2020.free.fr/qa-commune/popu-sans-route-name-france.png Yes, something happened last may... BANO started to be available at that time and the population for which no nearby named road was present as decreased almost twice faster since then. You can see also the missing names graph here: http://munin.openstreetmap.fr/osm12.free.org/osm104.openstreetmap.fr/bano_rapproche.html More than 100.000 names have been added since may. To summarize... yes, address are really an important dataset, mainly because it allows to cross the boundary between non geographic data (postal addresses) and geographic data with the help of (good) geocoding algorithm. This allows to bring a lot of new data users to OSM by providing the data fuel for services like routing from address A to address B. Some public services web sites have started using OSM + BANO that way. This also allows to geocode new (open) datasets to improve OSM with more interesting data (we're about to do this for almost 3 pharmacy). Is it mandatory to have the huge address datasets in OSM ? Maybe not, and not if the import process does not bring any improvement to the data. Mappers' time seems to me much better used for less mechanical contributions. -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] A Better Map
Hi Serge, Serge Wroclawski schrieb: Then we have the OSM community who sticks around and is participatory. Sadly if you look at the current candidates for the board, most of them have never even been in a working group. I know that's not your actual point, but as I'm one of the candidates for the board and as I've indeed never worked for a working group in the OSMF I have to ask on that. Do you suggest that this should be mandatory? As I see the OSMF as a representation of the OSM community I think it should not make a difference if one supports OSM via the Foundation or by doing stuff like plain mapping, helping on forum, ML, help or contribute code. Imho all is important and valuable work. I just think that the discussion regarding the OSMF, and paid staff especially, ignores the fact that a great deal of work is done today by people who are happy to do it (as I am) [...] Indeed. And imho it's a counterpoint to having paid staff in the OSMF. Peda ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto:lettera da inviare a comune siciliano per l'apertura dei dati
Am 23.10.2014 um 18:56 schrieb Aury88 spacedrive...@gmail.com: da notare che io accetto tutti i cookie (che conservo fino alla chiusura del browser)...insomma non sono assolutamente in grado di usare la posta certificata e non so perchè :.( non è detto che dipende dai cookies, può anche essere una malconfigurazione del DNS per esempio. ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
2014-10-22 0:31 GMT+02:00 Alberto Nogaro bartosom...@yahoo.it: Ho visto che mappi anche i cartelli. Complimenti, la trovo una pratica ottima per districare i casi dubbi o per risalire a cosa veramente vogliano dire i tag (ad esempio per capire bene cosa fare quando le convenzioni si evolvono). Li mappo solo quando sono particolarmente complessi (a maggior ragione se non riesco a mappare subito tutto quello che dicono, o peggio ancora se sono equivoci che non capisco bene quello che dicono). Purtroppo però non ho un modo per dare una descrizione abbreviato o univoca del segnale (e spesso capita che nella descrizione a parole nel comment uso parole diverse per lo stesso segnale) Vedo che per altri stati c'è una convenzione http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:traffic_sign#Traffic_sign_IDs ma non c'è per l'Italia. So che il regolamento del codice della strada chiama con delle sigle i vari cartelli, ma non riesco mai a trovare una fonte libera da cui prenderli. AnyFile ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto:lettera da inviare a comune siciliano per l'apertura dei dati
dieterdreist wrote non è detto che dipende dai cookies, può anche essere una malconfigurazione del DNS per esempio. ciao, Martin ho provato a cambiare il dns (ho usato google e poi openDNS) ma non è cambiato nulla. grazie comunque per l'aiuto - Ciao, Aury -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Aiuto-lettera-da-inviare-a-comune-siciliano-per-l-apertura-dei-dati-tp5810423p5821581.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto:lettera da inviare a comune siciliano per l'apertura dei dati
2014-10-23 18:56 GMT+02:00 Aury88 spacedrive...@gmail.com: ieri sono riuscito ad attvarle la pec ma ho altri problemi :( faccio il login su postacertificata.gov.it e dentro se provo ad andare in Casella PostaCertificat@ mi da errore il browser: Questa pagina non reindirizza in modo corretto Firefox ha rilevato che il server sta reindirizzando la richiesta per questa pagina in modo che non possa mai essere completata. Questo problema spesso è causato dal blocco o dal rifiuto dei cookie. da notare che io accetto tutti i cookie (che conservo fino alla chiusura del browser)...insomma non sono assolutamente in grado di usare la posta certificata e non so perchè :.( Uso Firefox 32 (su Windows e Linux) e non ho problemi. E tu? Sicuro di non avere antivirus, firewall o altre amenità di mezzo? Ciao, Andrea ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
2014-10-24 11:12 GMT+02:00 Any File anysomef...@gmail.com: So che il regolamento del codice della strada chiama con delle sigle i vari cartelli, ma non riesco mai a trovare una fonte libera da cui prenderli. non puoi prendere le sigle direttamente dal CdS? Essendo una legge dovrebbe essere priva di copyright... http://www.normattiva.it/uri-res/N2Ls?urn:nir:stato:decreto.legislativo:1992-04-30;285!vig= ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto:lettera da inviare a comune siciliano per l'apertura dei dati
2014-10-24 11:14 GMT+02:00 Aury88 spacedrive...@gmail.com: non è detto che dipende dai cookies, può anche essere una malconfigurazione del DNS per esempio. ciao, Martin ho provato a cambiare il dns (ho usato google e poi openDNS) ma non è cambiato nulla. grazie comunque per l'aiuto intendevo dall'altra parte (che loro avrebbero impostati i DNS record in maniera sbagliata che puntassero in cerchi). ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
2014-10-22 8:09 GMT+02:00 emmexx emm...@tiscalinet.it: Il 10/21/2014 10:39 PM, Any File scrisse: Impostarla a senso unico e' anche fuorviante per chi guarda la mappa. Se io ciclista vedo la mappa, ritengo che quello sia un senso unico e faccio un altro percorso. Uhmm .. però a questo punto considereri il problema più che altro un problema di rendering. E allo stesso modo sarebbe forviante indicarla doppio senso: un automobilista potrebbe pensare di poterci passare (e i dieviti di svolta non sono visibili sulla mappa). E sempre a livello di rendering in maniera anaolga cambia terribilmente cosa viene indicato sulla mappa per una via in cui l'accesso è consentito solo in certi orari se si dice * che nella via non si può passare (access=no, o simile) ma poi si mette come conditional restriction che in certi orari si può passare * che nella via si può passare, ma tramite conditionale restriction si dice che in certi orari non si può passare. (e allo stesso modo se si tratta di una strada che è a senso unico o non si può entrare in certi orari - distinguo tra questi ultimi due sotto-casi, visto che questo è il tema del thread) Con il prmo tipo di tag sulla mappa la way appare con le tacche rosse, nel secondo caso appare come una strada in cui si può passare sempre. AnyFile ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto:lettera da inviare a comune siciliano per l'apertura dei dati
Andrea Musuruane wrote Uso Firefox 32 (su Windows e Linux) e non ho problemi. E tu? Sicuro di non avere antivirus, firewall o altre amenità di mezzo? Ciao, Andrea Io Firefox 33 su linux (Ubuntu 14.04) antivirus non ne ho attivi e il firewall se c'è è nel settaggio di default... - Ciao, Aury -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Aiuto-lettera-da-inviare-a-comune-siciliano-per-l-apertura-dei-dati-tp5810423p5821590.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto:lettera da inviare a comune siciliano per l'apertura dei dati
On Friday 24 of October 2014 03:24:02 Aury88 wrote: Andrea Musuruane wrote Uso Firefox 32 (su Windows e Linux) e non ho problemi. E tu? Sicuro di non avere antivirus, firewall o altre amenità di mezzo? Ciao, Andrea Io Firefox 33 su linux (Ubuntu 14.04) antivirus non ne ho attivi e il firewall se c'è è nel settaggio di default... Qualche estensione particolare? Puoi provare con altri browser? Devo dire che ho notato questo, cercando, che non fa pensare bene: http://forum.mozillaitalia.org/index.php?topic=45184.15 Ci sono istruzioni per configurarla con un client di posta (c'è anche un'estensione per Thunderbird che semplifica la configurazione), sarebbe una soluzione percorribile? Ciao -- Luigi ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
Il 10/24/2014 12:22 PM, Any File scrisse: Con il prmo tipo di tag sulla mappa la way appare con le tacche rosse, nel secondo caso appare come una strada in cui si può passare sempre. Infatti da un puro punto di vista di rendering, ma non e' meno importante della forma dei dati inseriti, se ci sono delle restrizioni d'accesso, queste dovrebbero essere visibili, cosi' chi vede la mappa si informa meglio. Nel nostro caso il problema deriva dal fatto che le uniche restrizioni d'accesso presenti riguardano 20-30 metri di strada, il resto non ha restrizioni. Mettere senso unico secondo me e' fuorviante, non rispecchia la realta', confonde i mappatori che dovessero mettere mano ai dati. IMHO ovviamente Ripeto: io inserirei un breve tratto dalla parte di canova con access=no e le altre restrizioni necessarie. ciao maxx ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
2014-10-23 12:40 GMT+02:00 emmexx emm...@tiscalinet.it: Si', ma come ho gia' scritto la segnaletica orizzontale termina dopo 30 metri, prima del primo passo carraio. Da li' in poi la strada e' anche formalmente doppio senso. Il problema formale è: cosa vuol dire formalmente? Che il comune in un suo qualche documento l'ha definita a doppio senso? O dobbaimo aspettare che uno andando in senso contrario faccia un incidente, ci sia un processo e guardare cosa stabilisce il giudice? AnyFile ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
Il 10/24/2014 12:44 PM, Any File scrisse: Il problema formale è: cosa vuol dire formalmente? Che il comune in un suo qualche documento l'ha definita a doppio senso? O dobbaimo aspettare che uno andando in senso contrario faccia un incidente, ci sia un processo e guardare cosa stabilisce il giudice? A partire dal primo passo carraio non c'e' alcun tipo di segnaletica, ne' verticale ne' orizzontale, che indichi che quella strada e' a senso unico o che ha delle restrizioni. La restrizione e' fatta solo per impedire che le auto entrino, non che le auto circolino. Se sei dentro (perche' autorizzato, perche' ci sei entrato da altra parte) li' puoi circolare in entrambe le direzioni. ciao maxx ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
2014-10-23 0:13 GMT+02:00 Mauro Costantini maurocostantini1...@gmail.com: 11. questa nota ha senso solo per un umano che comprende l'italiano e si inventa da che parte è il divieto (si riferisce alla highway più vicina? in direzione forward?) Per quanto riguarda l'orientamento (ma non ho mai capito come usare la key direction, da nessuna parte c'è scritto quale lato del cartello, guardando altri casi simili, devo dedurre che devo mettermi nel punto in cui c'è il palo, guardare il retro del cartello e dire in che direzione sto guardando? Se è vero così, da nessuna parte nel wiki c'è scritto). I tag del nodo si riferiscono al cartello e descrivono cosa c'è sul cartello. Vorrei tanto avere un modo per indicarlo in altro modo, ma non saprei come. Nel caso specifico capire a cosa si riferisce penso proprio che sia un probelma anche per gli automobilisti, visto che il cartello è dopo l'incrocio e prima non ci sono cartelli di preavviso. Uno cosa dovrebbe fare: fermarsi al cartello? (tutti gli automobilisti che ho visto risolvono il problema ignorando il cartello!!!) Il tag motor_vehicle:forward:conditional=no @(Mo-Sa 07:30-09:00, 17:00-19:30; PH off) sulla way adiacente è quasi giusto, non fosse che il carattere «;» rappresenta la concatenazione di due valori, ma in questo caso «PH off» non dovrebbe essere una concatenazione della condizione. Presumo si voglia intendere che bus e taxi posssono sempre andar avanti a qualunque ora, in tal caso basta un semplice psv:forward=yes. PH sta per Public Holiday. Nel cartello c'è il simbolo che il divieto vale solo nei giorni ferialli (il simbolo di due martelletti), pertanto non ho trovato modo milgiore che indicare così (e spero sia giusto). ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
2014-10-24 12:08 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2014-10-24 11:12 GMT+02:00 Any File anysomef...@gmail.com: So che il regolamento del codice della strada chiama con delle sigle i vari cartelli, ma non riesco mai a trovare una fonte libera da cui prenderli. non puoi prendere le sigle direttamente dal CdS? Essendo una legge dovrebbe essere priva di copyright... http://www.normattiva.it/uri-res/N2Ls?urn:nir:stato:decreto.legislativo:1992-04-30;285!vig= Non è nel codice della strada ma nel regolamento di atuazione del codice della strada (se in Italia non ci complichiamo al vita non siamo contenti). Prenderlo da qualcosa di simili a quello che hai linkato tu è un disastro (perché o non ci sono le foto o sono separate dal testo). E prenderli da altri siti non so se sia open. Quando ho cercato non ho mai trovato una buona fonte, ma questo non vuol dire che non esista. AnyFile ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
2014-10-24 13:00 GMT+02:00 Any File anysomef...@gmail.com: Quando ho cercato non ho mai trovato una buona fonte, ma questo non vuol dire che non esista. penso che si dovrebbe fare una pagina in wikipedia come questa: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildtafel_der_Verkehrszeichen_in_der_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland_seit_2009 L'avevo cercato in precendenza ma non ho trovato niente (ma era tanto tempo fa). Trovato qualcosa http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:SVG_road_signs_in_Italy?uselang=it C'è anche questo per i segni dal '59 al '92 (purtroppo in tedesco, ma ci sono anche riferimenti in italiano): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildtafel_der_Verkehrszeichen_in_der_Republik_Italien_von_1959_bis_1992?uselang=it Sembra che c'è ancora spazio per qualcuno di fare qualcosa sensato in italiano ;-) ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
-Original Message- From: Any File [mailto:anysomef...@gmail.com] Sent: venerdì 24 ottobre 2014 13:01 To: openstreetmap list - italiano Subject: Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no Non è nel codice della strada ma nel regolamento di atuazione del codice della strada (se in Italia non ci complichiamo al vita non siamo contenti). Prenderlo da qualcosa di simili a quello che hai linkato tu è un disastro (perché o non ci sono le foto o sono separate dal testo). E prenderli da altri siti non so se sia open. Il sito della gazzetta ufficiale credo sia open? Il testo del regolamento di attuazione fa riferimento agli allegati grafici al Titolo II [1][2] Da una rapida occhiata, mi sembra che: - le denominazioni dei cartelli siano del tipo Figura II xxx Art.yyy. (vedi [1] da pag. 245 a pag. 291 e [2] da pag. 1 a pag. 343). - le denominazioni dei pannelli integrativi siano del tipo Modello II xxx Art.yyy (vedi [1] da pag. 237 a pag. 244) Credo la parte Art. yyy sia superflua ai fini di una identificazione univoca. [1] http://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/do/atto/serie_generale/caricaPdf?cdimg=092G053100400010110004dgu=1992-12-28art.dataPubblicazioneGazzetta=1992-12-28art.codiceRedazionale=092G0531art.num=1art.tiposerie=SG [2] http://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/do/atto/serie_generale/caricaPdf?cdimg=092G053100400010110005dgu=1992-12-28art.dataPubblicazioneGazzetta=1992-12-28art.codiceRedazionale=092G0531art.num=1art.tiposerie=SG Alberto ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto:lettera da inviare a comune siciliano per l'apertura dei dati
Luigi Toscano wrote Qualche estensione particolare? Puoi provare con altri browser? Devo dire che ho notato questo, cercando, che non fa pensare bene: http://forum.mozillaitalia.org/index.php?topic=45184.15 Ci sono istruzioni per configurarla con un client di posta (c'è anche un'estensione per Thunderbird che semplifica la configurazione), sarebbe una soluzione percorribile? Ciao -- Luigi estensioni solo ADBlock, DownloadThemAll,DownloadHelper e LastPass...non credo siano considerate particolari...invece per quanto riguarda le impostazioni della posta elettronica ho provato ad accedere tramite TB ma nulla...dice di non trovare il server - Ciao, Aury -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Aiuto-lettera-da-inviare-a-comune-siciliano-per-l-apertura-dei-dati-tp5810423p5821640.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto:lettera da inviare a comune siciliano per l'apertura dei dati
On Friday 24 of October 2014 08:17:16 Aury88 wrote: Luigi Toscano wrote Qualche estensione particolare? Puoi provare con altri browser? Devo dire che ho notato questo, cercando, che non fa pensare bene: http://forum.mozillaitalia.org/index.php?topic=45184.15 Ci sono istruzioni per configurarla con un client di posta (c'è anche un'estensione per Thunderbird che semplifica la configurazione), sarebbe una soluzione percorribile? estensioni solo ADBlock, DownloadThemAll,DownloadHelper e LastPass...non credo siano considerate particolari... Prova ugualmente ad avviare senza estensioni: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode invece per quanto riguarda le impostazioni della posta elettronica ho provato ad accedere tramite TB ma nulla...dice di non trovare il server Ohibo'. Seguendo queste istruzioni? https://www.postacertificata.gov.it/guida_utente/come-configurare-il-client-di-posta-thunderbird.dot Riesco a collegarmi al server (indirizzo e porta); non avendo un account non posso procedere ovviamente, però risponde al client. Hai provato questo? https://addons.mozilla.org/it/thunderbird/addon/thunderpec/ Ciao -- Luigi ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Una mappa migliore Fwd: [OSM-talk] A Better Map
2014-10-23 18:03 GMT+02:00 Max1234Ita max1234...@gmail.com: In più mi pare di capire, per quanto riguarda gli import, che le cose vanno a rilento soprattutto a causa di problemi burocratici... Ecco, più che astio verso gli import è un po' di sfiducia verso i burocrati... :-) Quello che si chiede per un import è la discussione con la communità locale, la documentazione dell'import, un concetto per il merge (cosa si fa in punti dove già esiste qualcosa in OSM) e dare la possibilità agli interessati di guardarsi i dati prima che vengono importati, per me non è burocrazia ma rispetto per chi ha mappato la propria zona. Oltre a controllare la qualità e attualità dei dati da importare (cosa al solito quasi impossibile in maniera sostanziosa, perché dovresti andare lì e paragonare la realtà con i dati da importare) chi fa l'import lo deve documentare nella wiki. Queste regole non sono emerse dal nullo, sono state fatte perché in passato chiunque prendeva dei dati cattivissimi (veramente, l'ho visto con i miei occhi), e li caricava spesso sopra i dati mappati a mano, oppure cancellava prima i dati rilevati a mano per non dover fare il merge. Ovviamente entrambi comportamenti non supportabili, che oltre a togliere informazioni creavano frustrazioni tra chi aveva mappato prima. ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
Per rispondere al quesito se spezzare o meno la way dove inizia la striscia gialla, se sei sicuro fai pure (io non ho capito esattamente dove sia il punto) Vorrei scusarmi se sono parso un po' scontroso, ma vorrei ben capire come è meglio mappare in generale. Se dove certi veicoli possono passare nell'altro senso non è senso unico allora temo ci siano parecchie way da sistemare (alcune fatte anche da me, in genere prendendo spunto). Però a rileggere il wiki torno di nuovo a dubitare e passo in continuazione a propendere per un lato o l'altro. in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:oneway nella sezione Sub keys / exceptions fa l'esempio solo con i moped (ciclomotori), ma per come è scritto l'eccezione dovrebbe poter valere per qualsiasi tipo di veicolo. Quindi dovrei poter scrivere oneway=yes e oneway:taxi=no e allora mi chiedo se la way 96017805 e la way way 274980264 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/96017805 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/274980264 sono mappate correttamente (con oneway=yes e oneway:taxi) oppure per quanto detto fin'ora e per quello che c'è scritto all'inizio della pagina wiki non dovrei mettere oneway e mettere invece access:bakward=no, foot:backward=yes taxi:backward=yes, oppure se non mettere nulla e limitarmi al fatto che ci sono delle restrizioni di accesso (nota in zona adesso ci sono delle altre restrizioni di scolta, ma nulla che impedirebbe di entrare in questa via, le restizioni di svolta sono già abbastanza complesse come sono ora, che per ilmomento eviterei di toccarle) Non so se ci siano cartelli di senso unico (forse ho delle foto che ho fatto quando ho aggiunto il vicolo Rasini (che tra parentesi non è riportato su quasi nessuna mappa che ho mai visto) 2014-10-22 19:03 GMT+02:00 emmexx emm...@tiscalinet.it: Il tratto sud di piazza sempione e' a senso unico per le auto perche' in direzione corso sempione c'e' il cartello di divieto d'accesso eccetto tram. Ma non c'e' cartello di senso unico. e allora a questo punto mi viene il dubbio che anche queste way, cioè way 285282337, way 188280033 forse sarebbe meglio che non avessero il tag oneway. Però cosa metto: access:backward=no e foot:backward=yes? più avanti sempre emmexx ha scritto (per corso Sempione) Secondo me si puo' adottare la soluzione piu' semplice, cioe' rendere a doppio senso il tratto canova-gherardini mettendo delle restrizioni in entrata per i veicoli che non possono accedere. Se invece si vuole fare una cosa piu' aderente alla realta' si puo' lasciare a senso unico solo il tratto da canova al primo passo carraio (e' una preferenziale + bici) e impostare il resto a doppio senso. Ma una strada che è percorribile in un senso da tutti e nell'altro è una preferenziale (con o senza bici) come va taggata? Ad esempio quelle dove ci sono i salvagenti delle fermate dei tram o bus. Ad esempio la way 171825996 è corretto che abbia oneway=yes psv:backward=yes ? AnyFile ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
Il 10/24/2014 06:13 PM, Any File scrisse: Per rispondere al quesito se spezzare o meno la way dove inizia la striscia gialla, se sei sicuro fai pure (io non ho capito esattamente dove sia il punto) Prendendo Sempione da via Canova le strisce gialle di corsia preferenziale si fermano esattamente dove c'e' il primo passo carraio. Nelle foto che ho postato l'altro giorno si intuisce, male ma si intuisce. Se vuoi, fidati dei miei occhi, ci passo 3-4 volte a settimana quando vado a correre. Vorrei scusarmi se sono parso un po' scontroso, ma vorrei ben capire come è meglio mappare in generale. Non mi parevi scontroso, anch'io vorrei capire. Se dove certi veicoli possono passare nell'altro senso non è senso unico allora temo ci siano parecchie way da sistemare (alcune fatte anche da me, in genere prendendo spunto). Però a rileggere il wiki torno di nuovo a dubitare e passo in continuazione a propendere per un lato o l'altro. Il wiki dice che una via e' oneway se c'e' il cartello di senso unico. La discriminante e' questa. Se ci sono altre indicazioni di restrizioni d'accesso non si tratta (necessariamente) di oneway. in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:oneway nella sezione Sub keys / exceptions fa l'esempio solo con i moped (ciclomotori), ma per come è scritto l'eccezione dovrebbe poter valere per qualsiasi tipo di veicolo. Quindi dovrei poter scrivere oneway=yes e oneway:taxi=no e allora mi chiedo se la way 96017805 e la way way 274980264 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/96017805 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/274980264 In corso Monforte c'e' la preferenziale e probabilmente anche i cartelli di senso unico. sono mappate correttamente (con oneway=yes e oneway:taxi) oppure per quanto detto fin'ora e per quello che c'è scritto all'inizio della pagina wiki non dovrei mettere oneway e mettere invece access:bakward=no, foot:backward=yes taxi:backward=yes, oppure se non mettere nulla e limitarmi al fatto che ci sono delle restrizioni di accesso (nota in zona adesso ci sono delle altre restrizioni di scolta, ma nulla che impedirebbe di entrare in questa via, le restizioni di svolta sono già abbastanza complesse come sono ora, che per ilmomento eviterei di toccarle) Credo ci siano piu' modi di mappare le stesse cose. Diciamo che e' il bello di OSM. Il tratto sud di piazza sempione e' a senso unico per le auto perche' in direzione corso sempione c'e' il cartello di divieto d'accesso eccetto tram. Ma non c'e' cartello di senso unico. e allora a questo punto mi viene il dubbio che anche queste way, cioè way 285282337, way 188280033 forse sarebbe meglio che non avessero il tag oneway. Però cosa metto: access:backward=no e foot:backward=yes? C'e' un cartello di accesso riservato ma, se non ricordo male, solo l'accesso e' riservato (ai tram), se sei gia' dentro la via e' a senso unico. Devo andare a controllare. Se la situazione (strisce gialle) e' identica al lato canova, si puo' procedere nello stesso modo. Altrimenti si mette un restriction nel punto di ingresso. più avanti sempre emmexx ha scritto (per corso Sempione) Ma una strada che è percorribile in un senso da tutti e nell'altro è una preferenziale (con o senza bici) come va taggata? Ad esempio quelle dove ci sono i salvagenti delle fermate dei tram o bus. Ad esempio la way 171825996 è corretto che abbia oneway=yes psv:backward=yes ? Se c'e' il cartello di senso unico si'. ciao maxx ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
2014-10-23 0:13 GMT+02:00 Mauro Costantini maurocostantini1...@gmail.com: 7. (@AnyFile) I due tag descrivono situazioni diverse. oneway:bicycle=no (insieme a oneway=yes) dice che siamo su una strada a senso unico e le bici possono andare anche in senso opposto; bicycle:backward=yes ci dice che su una strada con due direzioni ammissibili (tipicamente una strada con almeno due corsie di cui almeno una che va all'indietro) nella direzione indietro le bici sono ammesse (tipicamente insieme ad almeno un altro tra access=* access:forward=*, access:backward=*); nota: ognuno di quei tag dice solo quello che è esplicito, non ci sono assunzioni implicite, nulla si può inferire sull'altro verso, su restrizioni legali d'accesso ad altri veicoli, ecc... Continuo a non capire appieno la differenza, aumentata dal fatto che ad certo punto mi era parso di capire che (almeno per i router) mettere oneway=yes equivalesse a access:backward=no (eccetto per i pedoni) http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/290058036 10. comment:it=* per il tram non è a doppio senso, il tram non percorre mai quella way ma solo le railway=tram adiacenti. Il tram è sulla sede stradale (se la strada non fosse una linea , ma un rettangolo, come nella realtà, i binari sarebbero dentro la strada). Il commento l'ho messo per avvisare un ignaro automobilista che potrebbe venirgli contromano un tram (ma ad essere onesto nulla sul posto avvisa di questo pericolo un automobilista, spero proprio che se sovesse passare di lì un tram, cosa che penso rara, avvisino con bandiere, come un tempo vedevo fare agli incroci di via Farini). Questa via, ne sono certo, non ha i cartelli di senso unico all'incrocio di via Procaccini. Cosa faccio devo togliere il tag oneway? (ad essere onesto non so cosa ci sia all'incrocio con via Monviso, perché non ci sono mai passato - e a guardare come sono messi i sensi unici le opportunità di doverci passarci sono decisamente basse). Ma anche ammesso che si un cartello di divieto di accesso eccetto tram, cosa dovrei fare: mettere una relazione di restrizione che impedisce l'accesso da N a S all'incrocio con via Monviso e togliere il tag oneway? Non sarebbe forviante che sulla cartina non compaia più il simbolo di senso unico (visto che questa, a parti inverse, era una delle questioni da cui è partita la discussione) http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/183435587 12. Ecco in opera lo stesso problema del punto 7, questa volta applicato ai psv al posto delle bici. Con oneway=yes e senza lanes=* mi aspetto una strada con una (nel senso di una sola, cfr https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lanes#Assumptions ) corsia nell'unica direzione ammissibile. Con oneway:psv=no mi aspetto che su quell'unica corsia posso incrociare un bus. Il tag psv:backward=yes non lo vedo bene insieme ad un oneway=yes (perché oneway=yes è qualcosa in più di vehicle:backward=no, inoltre mi piacerebbe che fosse anche in compagnia di *:forward=*. Forse conviene approfondire l'argomento Lines? Questo pezzo (Assumptions) della pagina wiki Lanes mi ènuovo (ed infatti è stato scritto ben dopo che io ho letto quella pagina). Non sono sicuro di capire in pieno quello che hai scritto, stai dicendo ... anzi forse adesso ho capito. Ma allora devo concludere che le way che ho citato ad esempio in un altro mio messaggio di poco fa (quello con taxi:oneway e quello con le fermate dei bus) sono ora taggate sbagliate (come minimo perché essendoci oneway=yes questo implica che c'è una sola corsia a meno di non specificare almeno i lanes). Non ti seguo troppo sul fatto che se c'è psv:backward=yes allora [...] mi piacerebbe che fosse anche in compagnia di *:forward=* . Ragionando come nei tag dei conditional restriction, se non è specificato il compagno del backward, per il forward valgono gli accessi dati dagli altri tag più generici Generale 15. Qualcuno mi sa dire cosa sono i loc_ref=* su ogni strada in quella zona? È qualcosa legato all'import di AMAT https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Agenzia_mobilit%C3%A0_ambiente_territorio visto che io ne so poco o quasi nulla, lascio la spiegazione a chi è più esperto. Vi ho tediato abbastanza, non odiatemi per questo. Temo di aver fatto lo stesso anche io. Non scrivevo in lista da un bel po' ed in un paio di giorni vi ho inondato di messaggi. AnyFile ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
2014-10-24 18:35 GMT+02:00 emmexx emm...@tiscalinet.it: Il 10/24/2014 06:13 PM, Any File scrisse: Ma una strada che è percorribile in un senso da tutti e nell'altro è una preferenziale (con o senza bici) come va taggata? Ad esempio quelle dove ci sono i salvagenti delle fermate dei tram o bus. Ad esempio la way 171825996 è corretto che abbia oneway=yes psv:backward=yes ? Se c'e' il cartello di senso unico si'. Di solito dove ci sono le fermate dei tram o bus il cartello di senso unico non c'è, quello che c'è è un cartello obbligo di passare a destra (del salvagente) ora ovviamente non trovo un esempio dove io abbia segnato anche il cartello. Ma se le cose stanno così .. allora tremo all'idea di dover correggere centinaia di way (anche perché prima di correggerle vorrei fare un sopralluogo sul posto, prima di correggee sbagliato) E per complicare le cose in alcuni casi invece il cartello è quello di obbligo di passare a destra o a sinsitra (in questo caso il problema del senso unico non si pone), come ad esempio https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2991421479 AnyFile ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Aiuto:lettera da inviare a comune siciliano per l'apertura dei dati
Luigi Toscano wrote Prova ugualmente ad avviare senza estensioni: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode Niente da fare. stesso identico messaggio. Ho provato anche da un altro pc (W7 e chrome) ma nulla da fare. li il messaggio d'errore era: La pagina web ha generato un loop di reindirizzamento Luigi Toscano wrote Ohibo'. Seguendo queste istruzioni? https://www.postacertificata.gov.it/guida_utente/come-configurare-il-client-di-posta-thunderbird.dot Riesco a collegarmi al server (indirizzo e porta); non avendo un account non posso procedere ovviamente, però risponde al client. si ho provato quelle ed altre istruzioni (ci sono specifiche per thunderbird [1]) e applicando anche i suggerimento trovati nel forum da te linkato prima ma non riesce a contattare il server...farò altri tentativi comunque nei prox giorni su questa strada. PS: ho controllato le porte richieste (995 e 993) tramite sito esterno e le mie sembrerebbero raggiungibili. Luigi Toscano wrote Hai provato questo? https://addons.mozilla.org/it/thunderbird/addon/thunderpec/ non è compatibile con la mia attuale versione di firefoxaspetterò qualche giorno sperando che lo sviluppatore rilasci una versione compatibile ;) grazie comunque :) vi terrò informati ciao Aury [1]https://www.postacertificata.gov.it/guida_utente/come-configurare-il-client-di-posta-thunderbird.dot - Ciao, Aury -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Aiuto-lettera-da-inviare-a-comune-siciliano-per-l-apertura-dei-dati-tp5810423p5821673.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Oneway vs access=no
Il 10/24/2014 07:05 PM, Any File scrisse: Di solito dove ci sono le fermate dei tram o bus il cartello di senso unico non c'è, quello che c'è è un cartello obbligo di passare a destra (del salvagente) Non so se questa situazione e' gia' prevista dai tag di osm. Mi pare che comunque il questo caso la situazione sia leggermente diversa dal punto di vista pratico. Nei brevi tratti dove ci sono i salvagente di solito ci passano soli i mezzi pubblici e non ci sono problemi di immissione da strade o da passi carrai. Vale anche il fatto che per la circolazione normale (non tram, bus) la situazione e' chiara. In via Farini, ho sbirciato su street view, quindi non si utilizzino queste info per modificare la mappa, la situazione e' comunque identica a corso sempione. C'e' un breve tratto di preferenziale per impedire l'ingresso dei non autorizzati dove c'e' la pensilina e dove si fermano i mezzi. Ma quel pezzo e' a tutti gli effetti a doppio senso. Ma non andrei a complicarmi la vita inutilmente. ciao maxx ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Mapillary in the OpenStreetMap iD Editor
ottimo per i mapping party. ottimo. -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Mapillary-in-the-OpenStreetMap-iD-Editor-tp5821475p5821687.html Sent from the Italy General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-at] OE1 Radiokolleg KW43 Digitalen Geoinformationssystemen auf der Spur
Hallo Leute, diese Woche waren auf Oe1, Radiokolleg, Mo., Di., Mi. Do. jeweils 9:30 bis 9:45 Beitraege zum Thema Digitalen Geoinformationssysteme zu hoeren (ja, OSM kommt vor). Habe diese Dinger jetzt nachgehoert und dabei sind sie irgendwie auf meiner Festplatte gelandet. Gibt's allgemeines Interesse daran oder eh nur einzelne? Wenn ersteres, dann ersuche ich um Vorschlaege, das ohne Urheberrechts-Wahnsinn abzuhandeln. Wenn zweiteres, dann wuerd' ich's einfach ueber private Nachrichten loesen. Pfirt'Eich, Marcus ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] OE1 Radiokolleg KW43 Digitalen Geoinformationssystemen auf der Spur
Urheberrechtswahnsinn... Du darfst es ja herunterladen. Das ist nicht illegal. Wenn du hier schreibst, wo du die Aufnahmen bekommen hast, kann es jeder für sich herunterladen/anhören. btw: Ja, ich hätte Interesse. Am 24. Oktober 2014 10:33 schrieb Marcus MERIGHI mcmer-openstreet...@tor.at : Hallo Leute, diese Woche waren auf Oe1, Radiokolleg, Mo., Di., Mi. Do. jeweils 9:30 bis 9:45 Beitraege zum Thema Digitalen Geoinformationssysteme zu hoeren (ja, OSM kommt vor). Habe diese Dinger jetzt nachgehoert und dabei sind sie irgendwie auf meiner Festplatte gelandet. Gibt's allgemeines Interesse daran oder eh nur einzelne? Wenn ersteres, dann ersuche ich um Vorschlaege, das ohne Urheberrechts-Wahnsinn abzuhandeln. Wenn zweiteres, dann wuerd' ich's einfach ueber private Nachrichten loesen. Pfirt'Eich, Marcus ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at -- Lukas Bischof p: +43 (664) 416 84 34 w: http://www.wordy-rappinghood.net/ @: lukas.bisc...@gmail.com ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] OE1 Radiokolleg KW43 Digitalen Geoinformationssystemen auf der Spur
Hallo, hier die Links zum online nachhören: http://oe1.orf.at/programm/385295 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/387448 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/387457 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/387523 lg Manuela Am 24.10.2014 10:50, schrieb Lukas Bischof: Urheberrechtswahnsinn... Du darfst es ja herunterladen. Das ist nicht illegal. Wenn du hier schreibst, wo du die Aufnahmen bekommen hast, kann es jeder für sich herunterladen/anhören. btw: Ja, ich hätte Interesse. Am 24. Oktober 2014 10:33 schrieb Marcus MERIGHI mcmer-openstreet...@tor.at mailto:mcmer-openstreet...@tor.at: Hallo Leute, diese Woche waren auf Oe1, Radiokolleg, Mo., Di., Mi. Do. jeweils 9:30 bis 9:45 Beitraege zum Thema Digitalen Geoinformationssysteme zu hoeren (ja, OSM kommt vor). Habe diese Dinger jetzt nachgehoert und dabei sind sie irgendwie auf meiner Festplatte gelandet. Gibt's allgemeines Interesse daran oder eh nur einzelne? Wenn ersteres, dann ersuche ich um Vorschlaege, das ohne Urheberrechts-Wahnsinn abzuhandeln. Wenn zweiteres, dann wuerd' ich's einfach ueber private Nachrichten loesen. Pfirt'Eich, Marcus ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at -- Lukas Bischof p: +43 (664) 416 84 34 tel:%2B43%20%28664%29%20416%2084%2034 w: http://www.wordy-rappinghood.net/ @: lukas.bisc...@gmail.com mailto:lukas.bisc...@gmail.com ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at -- DI(FH) Manuela Schmidt Research Group Cartography Vienna University of Technology email: manuela.schm...@tuwien.ac.at phone: +43-1-58801-12613 skype: schmidt.manuela http://cartography.tuwien.ac.at DVR: 0005886 ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] OE1 Radiokolleg KW43 Digitalen Geoinformationssystemen auf der Spur
lukas.bisc...@gmail.com (Lukas Bischof), 2014.10.24 (Fri) 10:50 (CEST): Urheberrechtswahnsinn... Du darfst es ja herunterladen. Offiziell dann, wenn Du zahlst (Abo). Ansonsten wollen sie nur nachhoeren auf der webseite und das nur sieben Tage lange. Das ist nicht illegal. Hier spricht ein mutiger Mann oder ein einschlaegig Fachkundiger. Im letzteren Fall waere ich sehr interessiert an genaueren Ausfuehrungen. Wenn du hier schreibst, wo du die Aufnahmen bekommen hast, kann es jeder für sich herunterladen/anhören. Was ich schrieb war genau genommen: Habe diese Dinger jetzt nachgehoert und dabei sind sie irgendwie auf meiner Festplatte gelandet. Hast Dich nicht ein bisschen ueber die Formulierung gewundert?! Nachdem ich einen proxy server zum Auslesen der URLs im Hintergrund bemuehen musste, bezweifle ich, dass jeder (inkludiert meine Mutter und Grossmutter) das herunterladen kann (ausser er/sie/es zahlt). btw: Ja, ich hätte Interesse. 1) herunterladen jeweils http://oe1.orf.at/programm/konsole/tag/20141020 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/konsole/tag/20141021 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/konsole/tag/20141022 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/konsole/tag/20141023 (das sollten dann text-dateien sein) 2) schau in jede datei 'rein und suche nach: time : 09:30, 3) Nimm die zeile darunter (url_stream) als URL fuer den download des mp3. Oder einfach: http://loopstream01.apa.at/?channel=oe1id=20141020_0930_172_1_radiokolleg2_R2K_w_ http://loopstream01.apa.at/?channel=oe1id=20141021_0930_172_1_radiokolleg2_R2K_w_ http://loopstream01.apa.at/?channel=oe1id=20141022_0930_172_1_radiokolleg2_R2K_w_ http://loopstream01.apa.at/?channel=oe1id=20141023_0930_172_1_radiokolleg2_R2K_w_ Naja, vielleicht haett' ich gleich die Anleitung schicken sollen... Pfirt'Eich, Marcus Am 24. Oktober 2014 10:33 schrieb Marcus MERIGHI mcmer-openstreet...@tor.at diese Woche waren auf Oe1, Radiokolleg, Mo., Di., Mi. Do. jeweils 9:30 bis 9:45 Beitraege zum Thema Digitalen Geoinformationssysteme zu hoeren (ja, OSM kommt vor). Habe diese Dinger jetzt nachgehoert und dabei sind sie irgendwie auf meiner Festplatte gelandet. Gibt's allgemeines Interesse daran oder eh nur einzelne? Wenn ersteres, dann ersuche ich um Vorschlaege, das ohne Urheberrechts-Wahnsinn abzuhandeln. Wenn zweiteres, dann wuerd' ich's einfach ueber private Nachrichten loesen. !DSPAM:544a13593397028964162! ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] OE1 Radiokolleg KW43 Digitalen Geoinformationssystemen auf der Spur
Danke! Und wer das MP3 herunterladen möchte, hier die Liste der MP3s. http://loopstream01.apa.at/?channel=oe1shoutcast=0ua=flashid=20141020_0930_172_1_radiokolleg2_R2K_w_ http://loopstream01.apa.at/?channel=oe1shoutcast=0ua=flashid=20141021_0930_172_1_radiokolleg2_R2K_w_ http://loopstream01.apa.at/?channel=oe1shoutcast=0ua=flashid=20141022_0930_172_1_radiokolleg2_R2K_w_ http://loopstream01.apa.at/?channel=oe1shoutcast=0ua=flashid=20141023_0930_172_1_radiokolleg2_R2K_w_ Anhand der id kann man sich das Sendedatum herausrechnen ;) Am 24. Oktober 2014 11:01 schrieb Manuela Schmidt manuela.schm...@tuwien.ac.at: Hallo, hier die Links zum online nachhören: http://oe1.orf.at/programm/385295 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/387448 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/387457 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/387523 lg Manuela Am 24.10.2014 10:50, schrieb Lukas Bischof: Urheberrechtswahnsinn... Du darfst es ja herunterladen. Das ist nicht illegal. Wenn du hier schreibst, wo du die Aufnahmen bekommen hast, kann es jeder für sich herunterladen/anhören. btw: Ja, ich hätte Interesse. Am 24. Oktober 2014 10:33 schrieb Marcus MERIGHI mcmer-openstreet...@tor.at: Hallo Leute, diese Woche waren auf Oe1, Radiokolleg, Mo., Di., Mi. Do. jeweils 9:30 bis 9:45 Beitraege zum Thema Digitalen Geoinformationssysteme zu hoeren (ja, OSM kommt vor). Habe diese Dinger jetzt nachgehoert und dabei sind sie irgendwie auf meiner Festplatte gelandet. Gibt's allgemeines Interesse daran oder eh nur einzelne? Wenn ersteres, dann ersuche ich um Vorschlaege, das ohne Urheberrechts-Wahnsinn abzuhandeln. Wenn zweiteres, dann wuerd' ich's einfach ueber private Nachrichten loesen. Pfirt'Eich, Marcus ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at -- Lukas Bischof p: +43 (664) 416 84 34 w: http://www.wordy-rappinghood.net/ @: lukas.bisc...@gmail.com ___ Talk-at mailing listTalk-at@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at -- DI(FH) Manuela Schmidt Research Group Cartography Vienna University of Technology email: manuela.schm...@tuwien.ac.at phone: +43-1-58801-12613 skype: schmidt.manuela http://cartography.tuwien.ac.at DVR: 0005886 ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at -- Lukas Bischof p: +43 (664) 416 84 34 w: http://www.wordy-rappinghood.net/ @: lukas.bisc...@gmail.com ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] OE1 Radiokolleg KW43 Digitalen Geoinformationssystemen auf der Spur
Hi! Vielen Dank für deine genauen Ausführungen. Ich hab den Wireshark-Traffic analysiert und komme (oh, Wunder!) zum gleichen Ergebnis. Hier spricht ein mutiger Mann oder ein einschlaegig Fachkundiger. Im letzteren Fall waere ich sehr interessiert an genaueren Ausfuehrungen. Ich berufe mich dabei auf die Ausführungen meines Professors an der FH (Allgemein beeideter und gerichtlich zertifizierter Sachverständiger für Urheberschutz und Medienwesen) Die Paragrafen kann ich nicht nennen, aber in Österreich gilt meines Wissens nach wie vor: Herunterladen ist nicht illegal, das Weiterverteilen aber sehr wohl. Deshalb macht man sich in Österreich mit Bittorrent beispielsweise sehr wohl strafbar. Habe diese Dinger jetzt nachgehoert und dabei sind sie irgendwie auf meiner Festplatte gelandet. Hast Dich nicht ein bisschen ueber die Formulierung gewundert?! Nein, eigentlich nicht. Du willst dich ja schadlos halten. 1) herunterladen jeweils http://oe1.orf.at/programm/konsole/tag/20141020 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/konsole/tag/20141021 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/konsole/tag/20141022 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/konsole/tag/20141023 (das sollten dann text-dateien sein) Vielen Dank! Werds mir speichern, auf Ö1 läuft ja öfter was interessantes, das ich mir zeitsouverän nachhören will. Und den Flash Player will ich dabei von der Platte fernhalten. lg Lukas ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] OE1 Radiokolleg KW43 Digitalen Geoinformationssystemen auf der Spur
lukas.bisc...@gmail.com (Lukas Bischof), 2014.10.24 (Fri) 13:12 (CEST): Hier spricht ein mutiger Mann oder ein einschlaegig Fachkundiger. Im letzteren Fall waere ich sehr interessiert an genaueren Ausfuehrungen. Ich berufe mich dabei auf die Ausführungen meines Professors an der FH (Allgemein beeideter und gerichtlich zertifizierter Sachverständiger für Urheberschutz und Medienwesen) Die Paragrafen kann ich nicht nennen, aber in Österreich gilt meines Wissens nach wie vor: Herunterladen ist nicht illegal, das Weiterverteilen aber sehr wohl. Deshalb macht man sich in Österreich mit Bittorrent beispielsweise sehr wohl strafbar. In eigenen Worten, um Verstaendnis zu ueberpruefen: Wenn die (oe1) etwas auf der Webseite zum anhoeren anbieten und es technisch nicht schaffen, den entsprechenden download zu verhindern, dann darf ich auch den download nehmen. Selbst wenn sie (oe1) ausdruecklich sagen, sie wollen das nicht. Anderes, extremeres Beispiel und Frage (wenn Du genug von meinen Fragen hast, dann lass mich das merken!) Unter http://www.zamg.ac.at/incaanalyse/?a=oenordp=RR15mIL_aover=30dip=Nowcast kann man sich einiges an aelteren Bildern ansehen, links oben werden die Vorhersagen verkauft. Tatsaechlich ist es aber so, dass die Bilder nur per web-interface geschuetzt sind, im entsprechenden Verzeichnis des servers liegen sie aber bereit, ohne jeglichen Schutz. Darf ich mir die Vorhersagen holen? Habe diese Dinger jetzt nachgehoert und dabei sind sie irgendwie auf meiner Festplatte gelandet. Hast Dich nicht ein bisschen ueber die Formulierung gewundert?! Nein, eigentlich nicht. Du willst dich ja schadlos halten. Schadlos halten ist juristisch fuer ich will Aerger von mir fernhalten? Ja, das war der Grund der Formulierung. 1) herunterladen jeweils http://oe1.orf.at/programm/konsole/tag/20141020 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/konsole/tag/20141021 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/konsole/tag/20141022 http://oe1.orf.at/programm/konsole/tag/20141023 (das sollten dann text-dateien sein) Vielen Dank! Werds mir speichern, auf Ö1 läuft ja öfter was interessantes, das ich mir zeitsouverän nachhören will. War frueher auch schon 'mal komplizierter auf Oe1 sich etwas zeitsouveraen (super Ausdruck!) zu holen. Wenn die das so beibehalten sind wir aus dem Schneider. Und den Flash Player will ich dabei von der Platte fernhalten. Fuer'n Windows Media Player wuerden's auch anbieten, ich glaube aber nicht dass Dir der mehr taugt ;-) Und schoen langsam wird's echt Off Topic, die Sache... Pfirt, Marcus !DSPAM:544a349922316413416105! ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] OE1 Radiokolleg KW43 Digitalen Geoinformationssystemen auf der Spur
Bei der schnellen Wikipedia-Recherche habe ich den Paragrafen bekommen, ich wusste, es war etwas mit 40 ;) http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatkopie#.C3.96sterreich Weiter unten steht, dass man wirksame Kopierschutzmaßnahmen dabei nicht umgehen darf. Ich folgere daraus: Wenn ich das Ding im Browser aufmachen kann, also wenn ich mir die Website ausrechne (wie bei Ö1 oder bei der ORF-TVThek), sprich, wo alles fein säuberlich in einer XML-Datei gespeichert ist und ich mir das alles per HTTP holen kann, dann ist der Kopierschutz für mich wirkungslos. Habe vor einigen Jahren gelesen, dass ein deutsches Bundesgericht den DVD-Kopierschutz für wirkungslos erklärt hat (ich glaube, Karlsruhe war es), somit ist auch dort das Kopieren von DVDs offiziell erlaubt. So gesehen würde ich auch sagen, dass der Schutz von der ZAMG-Website wirkungslos ist. Ist aber nur meine Interpretation. Und weiterverteilen darfst du die Dinge sowieso nicht. Just my two cents. Und was das Fragen angeht: Ich bin kein Jurist und schreibe hier nur meine Interpretation auf. Ich weiß von meinem Prof, dass es so ist, aber Detailfragen kann ich nicht zu 100% deuten. Liegt wahrscheinlich auch daran, dass unser Urheberrecht aus dem vorletzten Jahrhundert stammt. Aber das ist eine andere Geschichte/ein anderes Problem. Und jetzt: BTT! Aber wir können uns auch gern über den privaten Mailverkehr weiter unterhalten ;) Ich sehe btw, dass du auch aus Linz kommst. Es war die Dr. (blablabla) Peter Burgstaller, Kanzlei http://www.lawfirmlinz.com/. Wir hatten ein paar sehr interessante Gespräche über das Urheberrecht. ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] OE1 Radiokolleg KW43 Digitalen Geoinformationssystemen auf der Spur
Hi! On 24.10.14 10:33, Marcus MERIGHI wrote: Gibt's allgemeines Interesse daran oder eh nur einzelne? Wenn ersteres, dann ersuche ich um Vorschlaege, das ohne Urheberrechts-Wahnsinn abzuhandeln. Wenn zweiteres, dann wuerd' ich's einfach ueber private Nachrichten loesen. Also ich hätte sie gern, bitte. lg Andreas ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
