Re: [talk-ph] New bing imagery Batch 9

2012-09-18 Thread maning sambale
Here's a post from Bing's blog on the latest September updates and also a screenshot of the coverage. http://www.bing.com/community/site_blogs/b/maps/archive/2012/09/18/global-ortho-amp-17-million-sqkm-of-new-satellite-imagery.aspx http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8299/8001662032_c8f5a4ceb4_b.jpg On

[OSM-talk-be] public transport

2012-09-18 Thread Marc Coevoet
Hello, here I found back a discussion about an app... http://activityworkshop.net/software/timetabler/index.html Of course, this guy makes interesting soft too: http://activityworkshop.net/software/gpsprune/index.html 3D view of gpx ...

Re: [OSM-talk] {urgent} wrong licence information!

2012-09-18 Thread Tom Hughes
On 18/09/12 06:26, Michael Kugelmann wrote: On 17.09.2012 23:30, wrote Ed Loach: Looks like it has been done. http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Osm:Export.start.export_detai ls/dediff=4223004oldid=1509470rcid=curid=1065143 Short: http://is.gd/vzKO8e I still get the old attribution = I'm

Re: [OSM-talk] {urgent} wrong licence information!

2012-09-18 Thread Floris Looijesteijn
Only for English, not even British English... http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translationsmessage=Osm:Export.start.export_details Greets, Floris On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:30 PM, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote: Looks like it has been done.

[OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Christian Quest
On Sept. 15, a french OSM contributor has been blocked because he was not following the dedicated account for import described in the Import Guidelines (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/238). There was nothing armful for the data, community or the whole project is these changesets. This

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Mike Dupont
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr wrote: I'd like to have some answers because after searching the wiki, the OSMF web site and the imports@ mailing-list archives, I could not find any (public) discussion about the newly required dedicated account. Hi, I

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2012/9/18 Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr: My questions are: - Who decided this change (recommendation - requirement) ? - What has been the process that lead to this major change ? not sure about this, but I definitely support the decision, because it was a real problem in the past

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pieren
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: not sure about this, but I definitely support the decision, because it was a real problem in the past when imports could not easily be distinguished from individual and original contributions. Excepted that in

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2012/9/18 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: not sure about this, but I definitely support the decision, because it was a real problem in the past when imports could not easily be distinguished from individual and

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Mike N
On 9/18/2012 7:51 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: well, not sure where this comes from and if it makes sense: I don't see a real obstacle as email addresses are not a scarse ressource (you get as many as you like for free), but I agree that it seems to be better to allow the same email address

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pieren
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: How does it help for distinguishing imports from original contributions to have many small areas or small feature sets or many small changesets? What might help is a uniform changeset comment or component.

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, I welcome a discussion about rules - which ones we need, who makes them, who executes them. It is clear that we need *some* rules, but until now there's no formal community process to create or amend such rules. I'm happy to hear any suggestions that people might have. How can the

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Vincent Privat
2012/9/18 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com I'd put it like this: someone who didn't respect the import guidelines valid for almost one year was temporarily blocked. What's the problem? That's what the DWG is for. Really ? According to [1]: The *Data Working Group*

Re: [OSM-talk] issue with bike sharing preset in josm

2012-09-18 Thread Gregory
I'm passing this onto the dev@ mailing list. I don't think translation is a topic suitable for that list, but I think those who know about the JOSM translation system are more likely to be there and not aware of what's happening in talk@ It terms of the actual tag in the OSM data... Although

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Jonathan Bennett
On 18/09/2012 13:42, Vincent Privat wrote: What happened on 15th september looks like an abuse of authority to me, as this largely exceeds the limits of the mandate given to the DWG. I expect a clarification from the OSMF board on this point. OK, if we're playing WikiLawyer pissing games, the

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Vincent Pottier
Le 18/09/2012 13:51, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : I'd put it like this: someone who didn't respect the import guidelines valid for almost one year was temporarily blocked. What's the problem? That's what the DWG is for. how many have spoken up against it? I'd expect from every mapper who

Re: [OSM-talk] Huge Berlin map - OSM?

2012-09-18 Thread Gregory
Ah they are great videos Alex. So can you confirm what source map they used? Greg. On 18 September 2012 00:52, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: Cool! On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Alexrk alex...@yahoo.de wrote: I did a short movie clip that shows how the map makers are working on

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pieren
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 2:52 PM, Jonathan Bennett openstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk wrote: On 18/09/2012 13:42, Vincent Privat wrote: OK, if we're playing WikiLawyer pissing games, the statement about DWG's power says authorised, not limited to. Part of DWG's remit is to deal with disputes, and

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Mike Dupont
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Vincent Pottier vpott...@gmail.com wrote: Now that I (and not only me) know that the guidelines are subjects of arbitrary changes without a wide announce, I would read this page each time before i'm importing a postbox from opendata ? But look, you found the

[OSM-talk] Slides and vids from ICA and SoC confs

2012-09-18 Thread Steve Chilton
There are a whole range of resources online from the ICA Neocartography workshop and the Society of Cartographers conf. A report on the ICA Neocartography Commission workshop is on the ICA website at: http://icaci.org/first-meeting-of-the-commission-on-neocartography/ Videos of all 6

Re: [OSM-talk] Huge Berlin map - OSM?

2012-09-18 Thread Barnett, Phillip
I was hoping to see a recursive map of Berlin here http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.517521lon=13.402168zoom=18layers=M :-) From: Gregory [mailto:nomoregra...@googlemail.com] Sent: 18 September 2012 14:05 To: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Huge Berlin map - OSM? Ah they are great

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Simon Poole
The changes to the guidelines should be seen in the light of the original text being very OSMish, trying to leave some wiggle room and trying not to come over as an absolute law, but I believe the intention was always that seperate accounts would be the norm. In reality a large number of

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pieren
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: The user had been contacted by DWG beforehand because he had imported several millions of objects under his account, Sounds as a mass, uncontrolled import but is not. This user is very active and well known in the

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pieren
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: The licence change process in particular turned up a large number of (problematic and others) imports where the importers washed their hands of their responsibility and left the clean up work to others. The imports during the

Re: [OSM-talk] issue with bike sharing preset in josm

2012-09-18 Thread Fabri
thank you for informing dev@ml :) Il 18/09/2012 14:49, Gregory ha scritto: I'm passing this onto the dev@ mailing list. I don't think translation is a topic suitable for that list, but I think those who know about the JOSM translation system are more likely to be there and not aware of what's

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Christian Quest
2012/9/18 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Just to clarify this one point: The user had been contacted by DWG beforehand because he had imported several millions of objects under his account, and asked to continue his work in accordance with the import guidelines, using a separate import

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lester Caine
Pieren wrote: DWG does also not usually require people to use a separete import account if they are doing small imports (even though the policy does not mention an exception for small imports). This, however, was orders of magnitude above small. What is the difference between one small import

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pieren
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Now if there is a substantial set of data available which we are allowed to import then that data should be available ... as an overlay or some other way ... such as the OS data is available as overlays we can trace from.

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lester Caine
Pieren wrote: Now if there is a substantial set of data available which we are allowed to import then that data should be available ... as an overlay or some other way ... such as the OS data is available as overlays we can trace from. Seriously, if OS opens the shapefiles of all detailed

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pierre Béland
2012-09-18 Lester Caine Having to clean up some of the mess made by imports that were not as well sanitised as they should have been, personally I get irritated at any 'import' is loaded.   Lester, I have often seen such arguments agains imports. In Canada also, there are contributors

[OSM-talk] Re : Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pierre Béland
2012-09-8 Frederik Ramm frederik at remote.org DWG does not usually block people without talking to them first, unless they are in the process of breaking things. Frederik, Governance and role of local communities should be looked in a context of multinational, multicultural organization.

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Simon Poole
Am 18.09.2012 15:55, schrieb Pieren: On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: The licence change process in particular turned up a large number of (problematic and others) imports where the importers washed their hands of their responsibility and left the clean up

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Christian Quest
We've drifted from a question about governance to a talk about usefulness of some kind of data in OSM which is something completely relative and personal. As far as I know, DWG doesn't exist to deal with usefulness of data nor quality of contributions, but copyright infringement, vandalism and

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lester Caine
Pierre Béland wrote: I have often seen such arguments against imports. In Canada also, there are contributors talking agains Canvec imports and saying we should have more fun tracing from GPS. We have to analyze the problems more seriously and find solutions to them. A great work is done in

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pierre Béland
2012-09-18 Simon Poole si...@poole.ch The question of (for example of an operational problem) communication to active mappers is a technical problem that we will have to address at one point in time. Either by assuring that the e-mail address remains valid or by other technical means.

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Richard Weait
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Pierre Béland infosbelas-...@yahoo.fr wrote: There are more then 500,000 contributors. How many do you think know about the DWG group and follow his guidelines? Those who aren't aware, and are contacted by DWG, generally switch to an import account when they

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pieren
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: The French cadastre imports are, as you know, a rather controversial subject. In my opinion it is a dataset that doesn't actually increase the usefulness of the OSM dataset for most users (building outlines without addresses

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pierre Béland
2012-09-18 Lester Caine lester at lsces.co.uk Pierre - I'm not arguing against imports. Only unmanaged ones and ones we do not have easy access to the source data. As I understand it you can view the canvec data, but is it available as an overlay in an editor? That is the part of the jigsaw

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pierre Béland
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: The French cadastre imports are, as you know, a rather controversial subject. In my opinion it is a dataset that doesn't actually increase the usefulness of the OSM dataset for most users (building outlines without addresses

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Kai Krueger
Hello, I don't know anything about the particular import that originated this question, and so I don't know if the following arguments specifically apply, but I do want to comment on the issue of requiring a separate account for imports. IMHO, the issue is about licensing. The contributor terms

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Christian Rogel
Blocking a very respected contributor without prior discussion is a major fail in the governance of the OSMF. I assume that the thing was not really foreseen and a loose lead was put on the DWG group. Everyone understands that the Board is overbooked and it could have be seen more easy

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lester Caine
Pierre Béland wrote: Pierre - I'm not arguing against imports. Only unmanaged ones and ones we do not have easy access to the source data. As I understand it you can view the canvec data, but is it available as an overlay in an editor? That is the part of the jigsaw that I'd like to see

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Grant Slater
On 18 September 2012 18:13, Christian Rogel christian.ro...@club-internet.fr wrote: Blocking a very respected contributor without prior discussion is a major fail in the governance of the OSMF. The user was messaged on 3 separate occasions between 22 March 2012 and 14 September 2012, asking

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Eric SIBERT
DWG != OSMF. ??? Éric ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread guillaume
Hi, I'm in the same case of Vincent Pottier except I has blocked without disscusion, by a very autoritative admin my fault : I've not create a decated account for importing localized area . But I've read the french wiki ! But I've read the import guideline ( it's not a massive import) ! But

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pieren
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 18 September 2012 18:13, Christian Rogel The initial message on the 22 March 2012 and follow-ups pointed to the guidelines ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines ) which include that imports

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
Just guess who controls the servers and domain name ? -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Pieren [mailto:pier...@gmail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 18 september 2012 19:56 Aan: OSM Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Grant Slater

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Paul Norman
From: Christian Quest [mailto:cqu...@openstreetmap.fr] Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 7:11 AM To: Frederik Ramm Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance 2012/9/18 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Just to clarify this one point: The

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
On 18/09/12 at 18:29 +0100, Grant Slater wrote: OSM is not unique, wikipedia too require a dedicated account for bots. I don't think calling people robots is going to contribute to improving the atmosphere. If the cadastre integration was done with scripts, it would be long done, wouldn't it?

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
On 18/09/12 at 17:42 +0200, Simon Poole wrote: (yes I have heard all the stories about everything being manually checked etc, if you believe that, I have a couple of bridges that I would like to sell to you). So you are blocking one user because other users working on similar stuff (cadastre

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Toby Murray
I have seen enough bad imports (and put significant effort into cleaning some of them up) that I like the guidelines and wish more people would follow them. Even if each individual clause may be a slight inconvenience or not entirely necessary for a particular import, I think it is worth having

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Simon Poole
Am 18.09.2012 18:04, schrieb Christian Quest: We've drifted from a question about governance to a talk about usefulness of some kind of data in OSM which is something completely relative and personal. As I pointed out, usefulness of the data is outside the scope of this discussion. As far

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
Messages were sent on September 14th and 13th about the need to use a dedicated account. A previous note was sent in March reminding them in the context of a note about a broken upload of 50k nodes. And he didn't listen to Big Big Brother who warned him twice... Is this a crowd sourced OPEN

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pierre Béland
Pierre And about governance,  if this community cannot manage his contributors, who can?  We continually have new mappers, some working more or less intensively. We should adapt or organization to this Wikipedia like structure and try to better structure local communities. I certainly

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Eric Marsden
pb == Pierre Béland infosbelas-...@yahoo.fr writes: pb Simon, this discussion was started to discuss about governance. We pb only see examples of problematic imports. But the question we pb should look at is how we can better tune or multinational / pb multicultural organization to

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Simon Poole
Am 18.09.2012 18:54, schrieb Béland Pierre: Is it possible to discuss about governance wich is the subject of this thread? The reason I even touched on this subject is that each time the cadastre imports turn up it is somehow claimed that they are different from other imports and should be

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, On 18.09.2012 20:34, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: So you are blocking one user because other users working on similar stuff (cadastre integration) did not work correctly? The user was not blocked because others did not work correctly. He was blocked - for 24 hours - because he did not adhere to

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lester Caine
Pieren wrote: OSM is not unique, wikipedia too require a dedicated account for bots. The uploads we are talking are normally done with JOSM after the integration with the existing data and validation. If it is performed with a script, then it's a bad import done by one of the black sheeps

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, On 18.09.2012 18:04, Christian Quest wrote: Still no answer to my main original questions: - who decided the import guidelines ? It is a policy that has grown gradually. Just like other things in OSM have - you'll not find anything about a vote for highway=motorway on the Wiki either.

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Marc Sibert
Le 18/09/2012 19:29, Grant Slater a écrit : On 18 September 2012 18:13, Christian Rogel christian.ro...@club-internet.fr wrote: Blocking a very respected contributor without prior discussion is a major fail in the governance of the OSMF. The user was messaged on 3 separate occasions between

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lester Caine
Frederik Ramm wrote: But if the work of one person surpasses the million-object mark then is that still a small-scale import? How much time does it take to review carefully a million objects? Is it possible that a simple JOSM did not report anything obvious takes the place of the careful review?

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Marc Sibert
Le 18/09/2012 21:38, Frederik Ramm a écrit : Hi, ... But if the work of one person surpasses the million-object mark then is that still a small-scale import? How much time does it take to review carefully a million objects? Is it possible that a simple JOSM did not report anything obvious

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lester Caine
Marc Sibert wrote: I thing the point is not why my account was blocked, but why someone have the right to block an account and whatfor ? The road is the place between the buildings... so I need the buildings : Cadastre data are usefull (fully). All points of the guideline are wrong : no

[OSM-talk] JOSM - recovery from failed uploads

2012-09-18 Thread Mike N
On 9/18/2012 1:56 PM, Pieren wrote: The uploads we are talking are normally done with JOSM after the integration with the existing data and validation. How do you recover from a failed JOSM upload when working with large datasets? ___ talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pierre Béland
2012-09-18 Frederik Ramm frederik at remote.org I am sure there are many users in France doing exactly that - a careful, small-scale, high-quality data integration.  Most of them are probably way below the OSMF radar. But if the work of one person surpasses the million-object mark then is

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pieren
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: It is a policy that has grown gradually. Just like other things in OSM have - you'll not find anything about a vote for highway=motorway on the Wiki either. Perhaps this policy has reached its limits. And honnestly, you

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Marc Sibert
Le 18/09/2012 22:17, Lester Caine a écrit : Marc Sibert wrote: I thing the point is not why my account was blocked, but why someone have the right to block an account and whatfor ? The road is the place between the buildings... so I need the buildings : Cadastre data are usefull (fully).

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Richard Weait
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Marc Sibert m...@sibert.fr wrote: I'm still not agree with this policy : I do not ignore your messages. You don't agree? You created your import account, I think? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Jean-Marc Liotier
On 09/18/2012 08:36 PM, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: On 18/09/12 at 18:29 +0100, Grant Slater wrote: OSM is not unique, wikipedia too require a dedicated account for bots. I don't think calling people robots is going to contribute to improving the atmosphere. If the cadastre integration was done

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pieren
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: You don't agree? You created your import account, I think? After a block !? Wow, what a victory ! Who is next ? Marc needed an access to the database because he is uploading surveyed data collected remotely by another

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Jean-Marc Liotier
On 09/18/2012 05:42 PM, Simon Poole wrote: The French cadastre imports are, as you know, a rather controversial subject. In my opinion it is a dataset that doesn't actually increase the usefulness of the OSM dataset for most users (building outlines without addresses just don't really help

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Marc Sibert
Le 18/09/2012 22:56, Richard Weait a écrit : On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Marc Sibert m...@sibert.fr wrote: I'm still not agree with this policy : I do not ignore your messages. You don't agree? You created your import account, I think? LOL ! yes I need to continue to contribute (adict

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lester Caine
Marc Sibert wrote: Again, I'm not a vandal : I do not detroy any work (and nobody complains about that), I just update data (replace), that is not the point why my account was blocked ! So, what have you done in my case ? It is your opinion that you have not destroyed any work, but this is

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Toby Murray
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 2:58 PM, Eric Marsden eric.mars...@free.fr wrote: - Openness/transparency. OSMF working groups are notoriously opaque, though some have improved over the last year by posting open minutes of meetings (which requires significant effort and which I

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Frederik Ramm
Marc, On 18.09.2012 21:53, Marc Sibert wrote: I thing the point is not why my account was blocked, but why someone have the right to block an account and whatfor ? I think that we need import guidelines, and we need people who can block those who don't follow the guidelines, otherwise having

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Vincent Pottier
Le 18/09/2012 21:13, Simon Poole a écrit : Am 18.09.2012 18:54, schrieb Béland Pierre: Is it possible to discuss about governance wich is the subject of this thread? The reason I even touched on this subject is that each time the cadastre imports turn up it is somehow claimed that they are

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Marc Sibert
Le 18/09/2012 23:24, Lester Caine a écrit : Marc Sibert wrote: Again, I'm not a vandal : I do not detroy any work (and nobody complains about that), I just update data (replace), that is not the point why my account was blocked ! So, what have you done in my case ? It is your opinion that

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pierre Béland
2012-09-18 Toby Murray toby.murray at gmail.com     - Openness/transparency. OSMF working groups are notoriously opaque,       though some have improved over the last year by posting open       minutes of meetings (which requires significant effort and which I       applaud). Some of the

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lester Caine
Marc Sibert wrote: It is your opinion that you have not destroyed any work, but this is one of the major complaints about this type of import process. STOP ! I do not read you after this sentence (I will do it after writing this answer). Now that you have read the rest of the message what is

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Marc Sibert
Le 18/09/2012 23:24, Lester Caine a écrit : Marc Sibert wrote: Again, I'm not a vandal : I do not detroy any work (and nobody complains about that), I just update data (replace), that is not the point why my account was blocked ! So, what have you done in my case ? It is your opinion that

Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM - recovery from failed uploads

2012-09-18 Thread Christian Quest
Save the current data to save the id of the objects that have been sucessfully uploaded. Then you'll be able to go on without creating objets twice... I never had any problem even with gigantic uploads. 2012/9/18 Mike N nice...@att.net On 9/18/2012 1:56 PM, Pieren wrote: The uploads we are

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Vincent Pottier
Le 18/09/2012 23:31, Frederik Ramm a écrit : Today, France has 50% more data in OSM than Germany. I am not jealous of that. I would be jealous if France had 50% more mappers and I sincerely hope that the French community can find ways to engage more people to help. But for all its data

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Marc Sibert
Le 19/09/2012 00:01, Lester Caine a écrit : Marc Sibert wrote: It is your opinion that you have not destroyed any work, but this is one of the major complaints about this type of import process. STOP ! I do not read you after this sentence (I will do it after writing this answer). Now

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Vincent Pottier
Le 19/09/2012 00:14, Vincent Pottier a écrit : Modified nodes De : ... Fr: ... @Frederic, I was not to play a match againts Germany... but I found a way to tell that French contributors don't do only importing buildings. And I hope we would have a wide community, but we already have a

[OSM-talk] Announcement: Voting ongoing for proposed access tagging Conditional restrictions

2012-09-18 Thread Rob Nickerson
Dear List, {This is a cross post - please reply to the tagging mailing list or the proposals [2] talk page. Please forward to local mailing lists as appropriate } - - - Announcement - - - Several attempts have in the past been made to develop a tagging scheme that is capable of handling the more

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Christian Quest
2012/9/18 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org Hi, On 18.09.2012 18:04, Christian Quest wrote: Still no answer to my main original questions: - who decided the import guidelines ? It is a policy that has grown gradually. Just like other things in OSM have - you'll not find anything about

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lester Caine
Marc Sibert wrote: Le 18/09/2012 23:24, Lester Caine a écrit : Marc Sibert wrote: Again, I'm not a vandal : I do not detroy any work (and nobody complains about that), I just update data (replace), that is not the point why my account was blocked ! So, what have you done in my case ? It is

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Pieren
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:50 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: This is an area where there HAS NOT been any agreement other than the history WILL currently be maintained in the database. My question still remains - what happens when the data is next updated - will you delete

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Michael Kugelmann
Am 18.09.2012 18:24, schrieb Richard Weait: The one account involved started this little thread was asked to use an import account three times. Then they created their import account. I just can second Richard and Grant: if a person is contacted three times by any working group and seems not

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Tom Hughes
On 18/09/12 20:58, Eric Marsden wrote: - Openness/transparency. OSMF working groups are notoriously opaque, though some have improved over the last year by posting open minutes of meetings (which requires significant effort and which I applaud). Some of the technical

Re: [OSM-talk] Huge Berlin map - OSM?

2012-09-18 Thread Alexrk
Gregory schrieb am 18.09.2012 15:05: Ah they are great videos Alex. So can you confirm what source map they used? I don't know the source. Don't you have trap streets in OSM? So maybe we can find out :) Alex ___ talk mailing list

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Marc Sibert
Le 18/09/2012 23:31, Frederik Ramm a écrit : Marc, On 18.09.2012 21:53, Marc Sibert wrote: I thing the point is not why my account was blocked, but why someone have the right to block an account and whatfor ? I think that we need import guidelines, and we need people who can block those who

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Michael Kugelmann
On 18.09.2012 15:42, Pieren wrote: The user had been contacted by DWG beforehand because he had imported several millions of objects under his account, Sounds as a mass, uncontrolled import but is not. Didn't you read what Frederik and others wrote? This user is very active and well known in

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Michael Kugelmann
On 18.09.2012 20:56, Gert Gremmen wrote: [...] Plonk! Sorry, Michael. :-( ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Jean-Marc Liotier
On 09/19/2012 02:23 AM, Michael Kugelmann wrote: And: why should the DWG contact the french community at first ? To gain a better understanding of local practices that look dodgy from the DWG's point of view but may actually be the result of local consensus grounded in years of debate and

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Toby Murray
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org wrote: On 09/19/2012 02:23 AM, Michael Kugelmann wrote: And: why should the DWG contact the french community at first ? To gain a better understanding of local practices that look dodgy from the DWG's point of view but may

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Willi
I really don't like the attitude expressed by several people here in response to this subject and which is already contained in the subject itself OSMF/DWG governance. Governance. There's no governance. DWG is a group and everybody is free to join it. The job is voluntary and unpaid. Being just a

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
On 18/09/12 at 20:51 +0100, Lester Caine wrote: I think that one of the problems here is that if a large block of data is uploaded in one 'commit' it is difficult to know if it IS a manually edit, or something that has been created automatically off-line, and is being slipped in to bypass the

Re: [OSM-talk] Import guidelines OSMF/DWG governance

2012-09-18 Thread Lester Caine
Toby Murray wrote: On 09/19/2012 02:23 AM, Michael Kugelmann wrote: And: why should the DWG contact the french community at first ? To gain a better understanding of local practices that look dodgy from the DWG's point of view but may actually be the result of local consensus grounded in years

[OSM-talk-nl] Fwd: Gebruikersvoorwaarden BAG niet meer van toepassing

2012-09-18 Thread Martijn van Exel
Hi talk-nl, onderstaande ontving ik als afnemer van de BAG. Misschien interessant voor wie wat met BAG data wil doen in het kader van OSM? (Ik heb geen idee of die discussie nog wordt gevoerd.) Groet, Martijn -- Forwarded message -- From: b...@kadaster.nl Date: 2012/9/18

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