lanning
> to close it after May 12.
>
> https://osmf.limequery.org/751285
>
>
>
> Have a great weekend everyone!
>
> Marjan
>
>
>
> *From:* Marjan Van de Kauter
> *Sent:* Friday 28 April 2023 15:30
> *To:* talk@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* [OSM-talk]
a great weekend everyone!
Marjan
From: Marjan Van de Kauter
Sent: Friday 28 April 2023 15:30
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [OSM-talk] Survey about OSM communication behaviors
Hi everyone,
We are doing a research project on how OpenStreetMap users interact with each
other. Are you willing
On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 18:57 +02:00, Courtney
wrote:
> Why is the
> main "Talk" channel the only one that is producing pushback? Why is it
> the only one that is producing such a negative tone?
Just a minor point for others: main LGBTQ OSMer found the gender question, and
attitudes towards
Hi,
On 5/2/23 00:10, Courtney wrote:
I believe that my team's research project
Can you clarify who "your team" in this context is? You were introduced
in Marjan's initial post as "OSMF Communication Working Group Member"
and were the only of four names without a TomTom affiliation. You are
> So I wouldn't suggest worrying too much about the lists. Theory and practice
> of community interaction elsewhere in OSM is absolutely a valid and
> interesting topic, but the lists belong to pretty much the same period in OSM
> history as IRC and Potlatch, and I say that as someone who
Courtney wrote:
> Or is it going to keep doing the same old flame wars?
To be honest, the mailing lists have been on the way out for a long time now,
and talk@ is no exception. Some once busy lists are now basically dead (dev@,
legal-talk@, talk-de@). Others are noticeably quieter (talk@,
I like all that you say here, and importantly, the very good intentions of
everyone who posted in this thread is entirely legible to me.
I agree that the need to hear different points of view is essential and
that it needs to happen in a public forum. As an American, I have a strong
predilection
On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 10:42 PM Ewen Hill wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am really disappointed by the anger and outrage in this thread and
> that, to castigate a volunteer in public,
>
I understand you, and some others may feel this way, but what I am seeing
is simply an exchange of ideas between
Hi all,
I am really disappointed by the anger and outrage in this thread and
that, to castigate a volunteer in public, no matter what hat they are
wearing or company they work for is just not on. Now we have the LimeSurvey
version, let's promote this and look at the results.
I hope in future,
Yes, I understand the concern and am in the middle of adding clarification
to the introduction to all 23 copies of the survey.
C
On Sun, Apr 30, 2023, 9:25 PM Mike Thompson wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 4:58 PM Courtney
> wrote:
>
>> Here, too, we gave quite a bit of careful thought to
On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 4:58 PM Courtney
wrote:
> Here, too, we gave quite a bit of careful thought to the decision. We felt
> that if we did not disclose that we were on the CWG, that it might be seen
> by some as a lapse of transparency.
>
It is good that you disclosed your affiliations.
Here, too, we gave quite a bit of careful thought to the decision. We felt
that if we did not disclose that we were on the CWG, that it might be seen
by some as a lapse of transparency. Further, I think it's relevant that
we're on the CWG, as it shows why we are interested in this topic, and
Now that we seem to have established that this was not a CWG thing to
start with, could everyone who was involved in creating this
announcement please review their communication behaviour, *especially*
when it comes to signing messages as "so-and-so, OSMF communications
working group" when
*I object only to the tone of some of the comments, and to assumptions that
are made about our motivation, decision process re: our approach, and
quality of our skills. I'm not alone in objecting to problems of tone more
broadly, and so I feel comfortable insisting on a higher quality discourse
Hi, all,
Here, thanks to the generosity of some folks on the OWG and OSMF who
donated their time to us so that we could have access to an open source
tool of this quality, is a LimeSurvey version.
https://osmf.limequery.org/751285?lang=en
Please do fill it out and share it widely within the
Courtney writes:
> Can I ask--what is the fundamental objection to us trying to learn a bit
> more about OSM communication habits?
I think you are misinterpreting. I detected no objection to trying to
learn. I only see objection to proprietary tools and pushing users to
surveillance.
Courtney writes:
> We also now have a new datapoint for our research. It will be interesting
> to get a sense of how many within the community have principled objections
> to proprietary software compared to members of the community who are
> looking at useability, localization, and/or
> Why is the main "Talk" channel the only one that is producing pushback? Why
> is it the only one that is producing such a negative tone? How widely is the
> principle of using only open source software adopted across the community?
It is not just "Talk". It is a phenomenon of all English
John,
This is all very insightful and I agree with all of it. One reason we
posted the survey in 12 different channels was because we have all worked
within OSM for a long time and we are familiar with the different cultures
within the different channels.
You wrote, "So are you interested in a
My background was working with surveys and my comments simply came from
that background and the steps taken to obtain accurate results. Nothing
else.
Typically a university run survey isn't done to high standards.
Your comment on questions from talk I think relates to the users.
OpenStreetMap
On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 1:06 PM Courtney
wrote:
> This conversation has opened up important new questions. Why is the main
> "Talk" channel the only one that is producing pushback? Why is it the only
> one that is producing such a negative tone?
>
> I don't understand the degree of ire and
Yes, it is not one or the other. That's my point exactly. So what is the
harm in doing our best to get a feel for what people prefer, how they
balance these concerns, and how the different choices affect them?
I welcome all the pushback and have already learned a very great deal--this
is one of
Le 30.04.23 à 18:29, Courtney a écrit :
It will be interesting to get a sense of how many within the community
have principled objections to proprietary software compared to members
of the community who are looking at useability, localization, and/or
accessibility as well as open sourcing in
On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 11:03 AM Courtney
wrote:
> Why is the main "Talk" channel the only one that is producing pushback?
> Why is it the only one that is producing such a negative tone?
>
I don't sense a "negative tone" in this conversation. Some people disagree
with some things you are
We do indeed have people with non technical backgrounds working on the
survey, including a multilingual person with an advanced degree in language
and technology, and a person with an advanced degree in English language.
We have two very experienced data analysts working on it, as well.
We did
We are working on setting up a limesurvey for those who don't wish to use a
Google form. I'll post it as soon as I have time to create and distribute
it.
We also now have a new datapoint for our research. It will be interesting
to get a sense of how many within the community have principled
Just a comment on Fredrick's input. Selecting the sample is one of the
most difficult parts of a survey to get right. The self selection part
of this survey makes it open to bias, as Frederick has commented this is
compounded by the platform. I'm not making a comment about if the
platform is
Hi,
On 4/28/23 15:57, Marc_marc wrote:
I am impressed (and disappointed) that those who do these surveys
have still not learned that part of the active opendata community
does not wish to ally a closeddata based enterprise (nominally:
no use of google forms for some of us).
Agree. It's one
Marc_marc writes:
> Hello,
>
> Le 28.04.23 à 15:29, Marjan Van de Kauter a écrit :
>> We are doing a research project on how OpenStreetMap users interact
>> with each other.
>
> I am impressed (and disappointed) that those who do these surveys
> have still not learned that part of the active
[1]
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/File:2021_OSMF_survey_country_respondents.ods
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 23:16:05 +0100
From: Andy Townsend
To:talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Survey about OSM communication behaviors
Message-ID:<647cf4a6-de0a-34ac-2d7a-980e65c0c...@gmail.
On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 5:52 PM Courtney
wrote:
> As well, this is not an OSMF survey, nor is it a CWG survey. Yes, two of
> us volunteer for the CWG, but it is not formally "from" or "of" the OSMF.
>
I guess I didn't read the original email closely enough. I got the
impression that this was
Since this seems to be an interesting topic, I will go ahead and add more
fineness of detail.
First, the reason I personally am interested in this survey as a
communications person, is that I believe that looking at the actual data
about how OSM'ers communicate may help the community uncover more
On 28/04/2023 22:50, Allan Mustard wrote:
Rather than criticize the CWG for using Google because certain people
are restricted by their governments from using Google services, it
would be more useful to suggest alternatives that might work in those
countries.
Mikel already mentioned that
/#sponsors
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2023 16:03:49 +0100
From: Andy Townsend
To: S?ren Reinecke
Cc:talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Survey about OSM communication behaviors
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 28/04/2023 15:47, S?ren Reinecke wrote:
So please
> I don't know how many times this has been proposed
> here is one
> https[https://framaforms.org]://[https://framaforms.org]framaforms.org[https://framaforms.org]
I see the problem.
1. I've heard
> https[https://framaforms.org]://[https://framaforms.org]framaforms.org[https://framaforms.org]
Le 28.04.23 à 16:47, Sören Reinecke a écrit :
rather to provide useful suggestion / realistic alternatives
I don't know how many times this has been proposed
here is one https://framaforms.org
So please stop complaining
Wasn't the aim to collect opinions on the communication ?
wanting to
Hey all -- how about going easier here and helping each other. Rather than
condemnation over a relatively minor decision of which platform to use for a
survey.
I think suggestion for another platform is easy enough to consider and remedy.
OSMF has used limesurvey in the past, it can be looked
Not only do I understand the concern about unrestricted internet access, it
is one of the reasons why we are undertaking our study of OSM community
communication practices and habits--there are hundreds of channels,
globally, and many of them have to do with working around this particular
On 28/04/2023 15:47, Sören Reinecke wrote:
So please stop complaining about when someone does not share your ideologic
attitude. And wanting to use OSS only is a ideology.
In this case, it's not just my view, it's the view of the OSMF board:
I am impressed that some of you always choose the path to complain about things
going against their own world view rather to provide useful suggestion /
realistic alternatives or even better getting involved in the implementation as
developers do. Google or Microsoft are unfortunately the
On 28/04/2023 14:57, Marc_marc wrote:
part of the active opendata community
does not wish to ally a closeddata based enterprise
It's actually worse than that.
OpenStreetMap has mappers all around the world. Some of those places
don't have the virtually unrestricted Internet access that
Hello,
Le 28.04.23 à 15:29, Marjan Van de Kauter a écrit :
We are doing a research project on how OpenStreetMap
users interact with each other.
I am impressed (and disappointed) that those who do these surveys
have still not learned that part of the active opendata community
does not wish to
Hi everyone,
We are doing a research project on how OpenStreetMap users interact with each
other. Are you willing to help us learn more about communication behaviors in
OSM? Take this quick and anonymous survey and tell us if and how you use the
OSM community forum, mailing lists, social media
43 matches
Mail list logo
