Re: [OSM-talk] Should we be mapping transformers and powerlines?

[Clifford Snow]

On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 7:05 PM john whelan  wrote:

> Apparently you can do a lot of expensive damage by firing a rifle bullet
> through them as happened more than once in the US and given the situation
> in Europe at the moment is there a risk that something similar could happen
> there?
>
> Should we have a process that says some things should not be mapped?
>
> I seem to recall that the location of the pipeline that supplies aviation
> fuel to airports is considered an official secret in the UK.
>
> Thoughts?
>

I live in one of the states where people fired at and damaged a power
substation so I'm concerned about the safety of our infrastructure.
Unfortunately there are many infrastructures that are vulnerable to
attacks. Such facilities as water plants, dams, bridges, transportation,
pipelines, hospitals, and a host of others. But I believe that mapping them
can also help. If you go back to the idea that "security through obscurity"
I think you'll find that it is just an illusion.

BTW - those caught and charged with damaging a power substation here were
looking to rob some stores. We all assumed it was right wing radicals.

Best,
Clifford


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Re: [OSM-talk] Use of "Proprietary" imagery to edit OSM

[Clifford Snow]

On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:59 PM Mike Thompson  wrote:

> Concerning this changeset:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/128035436
>
> Changeset comment:
>
> added missing roads according to proprietary aerial imagery
>
> Editing organization's follow on comment:
> "Proprietary" for Lyft meaning "provided to us for use in OSM but not the
> general public"
>
> Is this acceptable?  In my mind it is not as the whole community should
> have access in order to verify and build on these edits.
>
> I look at it as if they were using local knowledge. For example, If I walk
downtown and take pictures of business doors to capture address, name, and
hours for use in updating OSM but don't upload those pics - I consider that
acceptable.

For Lyft to make their imagery public they would have to insure that
nothing private, such as faces, license plates, etc. I'm sure they don't
want the added cost required make them public.

Clifford

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Re: [Diversity-talk] Code of conduct

[Clifford Snow]

I should mention that what we, Maggie Crawely, Rob Nickerson and myself,
want to accomplish is to create a committee to moderate the existing
etiquette guidelines and later update the guidelines to reflect best
practices of Code of Conducts.We planned to form a sub committee under the
LCCWG since CoC is critical to Local Chapters. We did a survey of Local
Chapters and those considering forming one. The results showed that 5 LC
already had a CoC, 6 did not and 6 were consider or in a discussion to have
a CoC.

Clifford

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 1:36 PM Heather Leson  wrote:

> Always
> Heather Leson
> heatherle...@gmail.com
> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> Blog: textontechs.com
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:31 PM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> Heather - A small group of the LCCWG met via BigBlueButton yesterday to
>> start a similar initiative. I was going to send an invite to the rest of
>> the LCCWG as well as to this mailing list. Since you have the ball rolling,
>> can you include lo...@osmfoundation.org in the mailing.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 1:22 PM Heather Leson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Great. working in the draft now.
>>>
>>> Thank you right back. Saturday is just a way to discuss this restart. We
>>> can keep building.
>>>
>>> Heather
>>>
>>> Heather Leson
>>> heatherle...@gmail.com
>>> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
>>> Blog: textontechs.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:10 PM Gertrude Namitala 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Heather for starting this. I will try to be available.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Trudy
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 8 Dec 2020, 23:05 Mikel Maron,  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is great
>>>>>
>>>>> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, December 8, 2020, 03:55:49 PM EST, Heather Leson <
>>>>> heatherle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Great!   Editing now
>>>>> Hope we can have an initial chat
>>>>>
>>>>> heather
>>>>>
>>>>> Heather Leson
>>>>> heatherle...@gmail.com
>>>>> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
>>>>> Blog: textontechs.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:33 PM Rebecca Firth 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > Hi Heather,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thanks for setting that up - I'll need to jig some things around but
>>>>> really hope to be able to join that meeting. Some people had already
>>>>> started working on a statement to share. I am sharing here for allies to
>>>>> add comments they would like to raise, and to identify people who are keen
>>>>> to move this work forward:
>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Thanks,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Rebecca
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 8:21 PM Heather Leson 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> Hey
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> A few of us are going to meet this saturday about code of conduct
>>>>> in osm. There is a codw of conduct but we think there needs to be more. We
>>>>> can also touch on the diversity work that mikel shared previously.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 1500 utc before the osmf board meeting at 1600 utc.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Hope you can join. This will be a small group discussion. We can
>>>>> always widen the circle later.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Link to be shared later. Note this will be a safe and positive
>>>>> space discussion. We will adhere strongly to the diversity list code.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Thanks so much
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Heather
>>>>> >> ___
>>>>> >> Diversity-talk mailing list
>>>>> >> Code of Conduct:
>>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
>>>>> >> Contact the mods (private): diversity-talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> ___
>>>>> Diversity-talk mailing list
>>>>> Code of Conduct:
>>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
>>>>> Contact the mods (private): diversity-talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>> Code of Conduct:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> @osm_washington
>> www.snowandsnow.us
>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>>
>

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Re: [Diversity-talk] Code of conduct

[Clifford Snow]

Heather - A small group of the LCCWG met via BigBlueButton yesterday to
start a similar initiative. I was going to send an invite to the rest of
the LCCWG as well as to this mailing list. Since you have the ball rolling,
can you include lo...@osmfoundation.org in the mailing.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 1:22 PM Heather Leson  wrote:

> Great. working in the draft now.
>
> Thank you right back. Saturday is just a way to discuss this restart. We
> can keep building.
>
> Heather
>
> Heather Leson
> heatherle...@gmail.com
> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
> Blog: textontechs.com
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:10 PM Gertrude Namitala 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Heather for starting this. I will try to be available.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Trudy
>>
>> On Tue, 8 Dec 2020, 23:05 Mikel Maron,  wrote:
>>
>>> This is great
>>>
>>> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 8, 2020, 03:55:49 PM EST, Heather Leson <
>>> heatherle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Great!   Editing now
>>> Hope we can have an initial chat
>>>
>>> heather
>>>
>>> Heather Leson
>>> heatherle...@gmail.com
>>> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson
>>> Blog: textontechs.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:33 PM Rebecca Firth 
>>> wrote:
>>> > Hi Heather,
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for setting that up - I'll need to jig some things around but
>>> really hope to be able to join that meeting. Some people had already
>>> started working on a statement to share. I am sharing here for allies to
>>> add comments they would like to raise, and to identify people who are keen
>>> to move this work forward:
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > Rebecca
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 8:21 PM Heather Leson 
>>> wrote:
>>> >> Hey
>>> >>
>>> >> A few of us are going to meet this saturday about code of conduct in
>>> osm. There is a codw of conduct but we think there needs to be more. We can
>>> also touch on the diversity work that mikel shared previously.
>>> >>
>>> >> 1500 utc before the osmf board meeting at 1600 utc.
>>> >>
>>> >> Hope you can join. This will be a small group discussion. We can
>>> always widen the circle later.
>>> >>
>>> >> Link to be shared later. Note this will be a safe and positive space
>>> discussion. We will adhere strongly to the diversity list code.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks so much
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Heather
>>> >> ___
>>> >> Diversity-talk mailing list
>>> >> Code of Conduct:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
>>> >> Contact the mods (private): diversity-talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> ___
>>> Diversity-talk mailing list
>>> Code of Conduct:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
>>> Contact the mods (private): diversity-talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>>
>> ___
> Diversity-talk mailing list
> Code of Conduct:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
> Contact the mods (private): diversity-talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>


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Re: [OSM-talk] I’m running for OSMF board and I’ve set up office hours for questions

[Clifford Snow]

Frederik,
I've had it with four years of listening to Trump. Not only don't I want to
hear it on OSM but it's completely inappropriate for a mailing list. Can
you please respond in a constructive manner.

Thanks,
Clifford

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 3:45 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 12/2/20 23:09, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote:
> > FB’s attribution to OSM is available to any viewer in a place that
> > is commonly associated with attribution.
> >
> > Barely visible icon that must be clicked is not a standard place for
> > attribution.
>
> Agree with Mateusz, and I'm just flabbergasted how someone can kick our
> license in the groin and have the audacity to ask for the community to
> thank them for it with a board seat, where they will be tasked with
> upholding values they apparently don't share.
>
> If Mike Migurski at least had the decency to say: "Yeah, my employer
> sucks with attribution, I know, and I'm trying to get it fixed." I
> wouldn't believe him but at least he'd say something that is ok. But
> instead he says "y'all suck with your baseless ideas of attribution,
> please vote for me."
>
> Anyone who thinks that, once elected, Mike will put OSM's interests
> before those of Facebook because that's his job as a board member, think
> twice. People have thought the same about Donald Trump - yeah, this
> whole grab-them-by-the-pussy talk is just showmanship and once elected
> he'll be more presidential. But don't be fooled. Mike is going to grab
> our licence by the pussy just as he promised he would, and he's being
> paid a fine salary for that from one of the most disturbing mega-corps
> on the planet.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [Talk-us] interesting crossing of borders between CA and AZ

[Clifford Snow]

The boundary is good, but will be better once you incorporate the existing
boundary between California and Arizona (and some others).

Your next step will be to merge the duplicate boundary area, where the
tribe and state boundaries are the same. Do that by splitting the
reservation boundary where they coincide with the other boundaries. split
border boundary at the same spot. In the JOSM relation editor for the
reservation, add the existing state boundary. If correct, the boundary
should be a closed way.

Best,
Clifford

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 5:32 PM Ray Kiddy  wrote:

>
> On 11/9/20 3:07 PM, Clifford Snow wrote:
>
> Ray,
> Thanks for taking on the task of fixing the tribal boundaries. From
> personal experience of having done a number of these, it's hard work and
> easy to make errors. But don't let that discourage you. It feels great once
> you're complete.
>
> One note - as far as I know, tribal boundaries should just be
> boundary=aboriginal_lands. Admin levels are designed for areas tagged
> boundary=administrative. Because tribal lands/reservations have a unique
> standings they should just be tagged boundary=aboriginal_lands.
>
> Feel free to contact me directly if you need help.
>
> Clifford
>
> When I was creating the relation, I found the "boundary=aboriginal_lands"
> thing.
>
> Give a shout if you see anything wrong with this.
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/11867393
>
> And I have not yet, of course, added the bit that will cross into
> California.
>
> cheers - ray
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 2:03 PM Ray Kiddy  wrote:
>
>> Hello -
>>
>> I am seeing an interesting editing task at the eastern edge of Riverside
>> County in California. As of now, I am not expert enough in JOSM to do
>> it, but I will, at some point, be able to do it and I will do it then.
>> Unless someone else wants it.
>>
>> I am starting to add lines to define the city boundaries of Blythe, CA.
>> Almost nothing is there in OSM.
>>
>> But the interesting bit is at the nothern part of the eastern edge of
>> the city boundary. This line in the Colorado River actually separates
>> the states of California and Arizona and is the eastern boarder of
>> Blythe but it is also the western border of the Colorado River Indian
>> Tribes Reservation (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/702934460).
>>
>> The issue is that the southern border of the reservation actually
>> crosses the CA-AZ state line and this is not seen in OSM. It has a "toe"
>> sort of shape, facing west. See the eastern edge of the map below.
>>
>> https://gis.countyofriverside.us/Html5Viewer/?viewer=MMC_Public
>>
>> So, what I think I need to do is:
>>
>> 1) Change the reservation from a way into a relation with the proper
>> admin level. (Done)
>>
>> 1a) Fix the southern border of the reservation, which should cover the
>> road there. The reservation does not include the road in OSM.
>>
>> 2) Split the way that currently cuts off the toe, but I need to not muck
>> up the CA-AZ border.
>>
>> 3) Add the lines for the toe. This also involves moving the northern
>> edge of the Palo Verde Ecological Reserve, whose northern edge is too
>> far north in OSM.
>>
>> 4) Actually the nothern edge of the eco reserve needs to be split off
>> because it is now also the border of the reservation.
>>
>> 5) Add the ways created for the norther edge of the toe into the
>> reservation's relation.
>>
>> And that is it. And I need to not break all of the other things around.
>> Easy peasy! :--)
>>
>> I am open to any suggestions. On the other hand, I am willing to do
>> these things when I figure out some of the advanced stuff in JOSM. Fun
>> stuff.
>>
>> cheers - ray
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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>
>

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Re: [Talk-us] interesting crossing of borders between CA and AZ

[Clifford Snow]

Ray,
Thanks for taking on the task of fixing the tribal boundaries. From
personal experience of having done a number of these, it's hard work and
easy to make errors. But don't let that discourage you. It feels great once
you're complete.

One note - as far as I know, tribal boundaries should just be
boundary=aboriginal_lands. Admin levels are designed for areas tagged
boundary=administrative. Because tribal lands/reservations have a unique
standings they should just be tagged boundary=aboriginal_lands.

Feel free to contact me directly if you need help.

Clifford

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 2:03 PM Ray Kiddy  wrote:

> Hello -
>
> I am seeing an interesting editing task at the eastern edge of Riverside
> County in California. As of now, I am not expert enough in JOSM to do
> it, but I will, at some point, be able to do it and I will do it then.
> Unless someone else wants it.
>
> I am starting to add lines to define the city boundaries of Blythe, CA.
> Almost nothing is there in OSM.
>
> But the interesting bit is at the nothern part of the eastern edge of
> the city boundary. This line in the Colorado River actually separates
> the states of California and Arizona and is the eastern boarder of
> Blythe but it is also the western border of the Colorado River Indian
> Tribes Reservation (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/702934460).
>
> The issue is that the southern border of the reservation actually
> crosses the CA-AZ state line and this is not seen in OSM. It has a "toe"
> sort of shape, facing west. See the eastern edge of the map below.
>
> https://gis.countyofriverside.us/Html5Viewer/?viewer=MMC_Public
>
> So, what I think I need to do is:
>
> 1) Change the reservation from a way into a relation with the proper
> admin level. (Done)
>
> 1a) Fix the southern border of the reservation, which should cover the
> road there. The reservation does not include the road in OSM.
>
> 2) Split the way that currently cuts off the toe, but I need to not muck
> up the CA-AZ border.
>
> 3) Add the lines for the toe. This also involves moving the northern
> edge of the Palo Verde Ecological Reserve, whose northern edge is too
> far north in OSM.
>
> 4) Actually the nothern edge of the eco reserve needs to be split off
> because it is now also the border of the reservation.
>
> 5) Add the ways created for the norther edge of the toe into the
> reservation's relation.
>
> And that is it. And I need to not break all of the other things around.
> Easy peasy! :--)
>
> I am open to any suggestions. On the other hand, I am willing to do
> these things when I figure out some of the advanced stuff in JOSM. Fun
> stuff.
>
> cheers - ray
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Big Blue Button email outage?

[Clifford Snow]

Richard,
Can you try sending an email to supp...@cloud68.co? I'm sure it's miggle of
the night there but hopefully you'll get a reply soon.

Clifford

On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 1:06 PM Richard Welty 
wrote:

> trying to either 1) recover a BBB account or 2) setup a new one,
> there seems to be an email outage.
>
> can someone reach out to the admins for the OSM BBB server to get
> the problem resolved?
>
> thanks,
>richard
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Re: [Talk-us] Recent Trunk road edits

[Clifford Snow]

Jack,
First off - lets name names. Who is this person? We did have a discussion
on Slack a while back about an editor changing trunk to something other
than trunk. As far as I know we were successful in reverting many of those.

Not everyone is comfortable using Slack and I understand. However, they
should respond to changeset comments. Especially from someone familiar with
the road. If they ignore you, then I would recommend involving DWG. If they
just want to argue then but won't join Slack, then I'd invite them to to
this mailing list discuss why they feel a particular road should be changed
from trunk to primary.

Best,
Clifford

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 6:35 PM Jack Burke  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Recently, someone has taken it on himself to downgrade most (all?)
> highway=trunk roads in the eastern U.S. to just primary.  The odd
> thing is that the very wiki page he cites as his reason fully supports
> keeping them as trunk.  Many of them I'm personally familiar with, and
> even absent the wiki's definition, they actually make more sense as
> trunk from a driving perspective.
>
> A few other editors have been getting involved in discussions with
> him, some helpfully, others not quite.  He was specifically invited to
> join this mailing list (and tagging), to discuss things, but as far as
> I can tell hasn't done so yet.  Andy from DWG also suggested that he
> join the OSMUS Slack channel, but I can't tell that he's done that,
> either.
>
> Of particular concern to me isn't just his downgrades, but his
> attitude about them.  Some of his changeset comments basically tell
> anyone who disagrees with him to appeal his decision to him, and he'll
> decide if the appellant is right or not, and if he catches anyone
> reversing his changes, he'll just revert it back.  Given his
> already-posted attitude about his edits, I'm not sure that trying to
> message him privately will do much good.
>
> I'm going to go ahead and put out here that I've gone ahead and
> changed some of them back to highway=trunk anyway, because as I said,
> they just make more sense that way, *and* meet the wiki's definition.
> And I'm quite sure that he'll revert them as soon as he notices.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions, comments, questions, jokes, etc.,
> about the situation?
>
> Regards,
> Jack
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Large fire perimeter tagging?

[Clifford Snow]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 7:24 AM Clifford Snow 
wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 12:46 AM Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
> tagg...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> landuse=forest is used to tag tree covered area, not for how land is used
>>
>
> I don't believe everyone around here will agree with that interpretation.
> I live in an area with significant logging. Typically I will see logging
> trucks bringing in just cut timber to be milled  when I'm out for just a
> short drive. Timber production is a big industry in Alaska, British
> Columbia, Washington, Oregon, and California.
>

I did a check of Washington and saw that there are a number of
landuse=forest that should be natural=trees. I suspect that it's also
happening elsewhere.

>
>> It is also basically universally interpreted this way by various data
>> consumers.
>>
>
> That may be for cartographic interpretation. But researchers may have a
> different opinion. A researcher just interested in potential wildfire areas
> may not be interested in the difference, but someone looking at how much
> land is being used for forestry products may have a different opinion. Or
> in mountainous states where clear cutting often causes landslides. I know
> our state studies where it's dangerous to clear cut because the area is so
> steep.
>
> The wiki on landuse=forest does need some help. We shouldn't be offering a
> tag with such unclear use cases as landuse=forest currently is written.
>

I'm not sure there would be a consensus agreement to revise the wiki to
indicate landuse=forest should be used for timber production.  Thoughts?

>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Large fire perimeter tagging?

[Clifford Snow]

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 12:46 AM Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <
tagg...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> landuse=forest is used to tag tree covered area, not for how land is used
>

I don't believe everyone around here will agree with that interpretation.
I live in an area with significant logging. Typically I will see logging
trucks bringing in just cut timber to be milled  when I'm out for just a
short drive. Timber production is a big industry in Alaska, British
Columbia, Washington, Oregon, and California.

>
> It is also basically universally interpreted this way by various data
> consumers.
>

That may be for cartographic interpretation. But researchers may have a
different opinion. A researcher just interested in potential wildfire areas
may not be interested in the difference, but someone looking at how much
land is being used for forestry products may have a different opinion. Or
in mountainous states where clear cutting often causes landslides. I know
our state studies where it's dangerous to clear cut because the area is so
steep.

The wiki on landuse=forest does need some help. We shouldn't be offering a
tag with such unclear use cases as landuse=forest currently is written.

Best,
Clifford


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Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Large fire perimeter tagging?

[Clifford Snow]

Steve,
Just a reminder, landuse is to tag what the land is used for.
landuse=forest is for areas that have harvestable wood products, ie trees.
Just because there was a fire doesn't mean the landuse changes. Landcover
is a better tag for burnt areas as well as areas just clearcut.



On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 2:31 PM stevea  wrote:

> I didn't get a single reply on this (see below), which I find surprising,
> especially as there are currently even larger fires that are more
> widespread all across the Western United States.
>
> I now ask if there are additional, appropriate polygons with tags I'm not
> familiar with regarding landcover that might be added to the map (as
> "landuse=forest" might be strictly true now only in a 'zoning' sense, as
> many of the actual trees that MAKE these forests have sadly burned down, or
> substantially so).
>
> Considering that there are literally millions and millions of acres of
> (newly) burned areas (forest, scrub, grassland, residential, commercial,
> industrial, public, private...), I'm surprised that OSM doesn't have some
> well-pondered and actual tags that reflect this situation.  My initial
> tagging of this (simply tagged, but enormous) polygon as "fire=perimeter"
> was coined on my part, but as I search wiki, taginfo and Overpass Turbo
> queries for similar data in the map, I come up empty.
>
> First, do others think it is important that we map these?  I say yes, as
> this fire has absolutely enormous impact to what we do and might map here,
> both present and future.  The aftermath of this fire (>85,000 acres this
> fire alone) will last for decades, and for OSM to not reflect this in the
> map (somehow, better bolstered than a simple, though huge, polygon tagged
> with fire=perimeter, start_date and end_date) seems OSM "cartographically
> misses something."  I know that HOT mappers map the "present- and
> aftermath-" of humanitarian disasters, I've HOT-participated myself.  So,
> considering the thousands of structures that burned (most of them homes),
> tens of thousands of acres which are burn-scarred and distinctly different
> than their landcover, millions of trees (yes, really) and even landuse is
> now currently tagged, I look for guidance — beyond the simple tag of
> fire=perimeter on a large polygon.
>
> Second, if we do choose to "better" map these incidents and results (they
> are life- and planet-altering on a grand scale) how might we choose to do
> that?  Do we have landcover tags which could replace landuse=forest or
> natural=wood with something like natural=fire_scarred?  (I'm making that
> up, but it or something like it could work).  How and when might we replace
> these with something less severe?  On the other hand, if it isn't
> appropriate that we map any of this, please say so.
>
> Thank you, especially any guidance offered from HOT contributors who have
> worked on post-fire humanitarian disasters,
>
> SteveA
> California (who has returned home after evacuation, relatively safe now
> that this fire is 100% contained)
>
>
> On Aug 29, 2020, at 7:20 PM, stevea  wrote:
> > Not sure if crossposting to talk-us is correct, but it is a "home list"
> for me.
> >
> > I've created a large fire perimeter in OSM from public sources,
> http://www.osm.org/way/842280873 .  This is a huge fire (sadly, there are
> larger ones right now, too), over 130 square miles, and caused the
> evacuation of every third person in my county (yes).  There are hundreds,
> perhaps thousands of structures, mostly residential homes, which have
> burned down and the event has "completely changed" giant redwoods in and
> the character of California's oldest state park (Big Basin).
> >
> > This perimeter significantly affects landuse, landcover and human
> patterns of movement and activity in this part of the world for a
> significant time to come.  It is a "major disaster."  I'm curious how HOT
> teams might delineate such a thing (and I've participated in a HOT fire
> team, mapping barns, water sources for helicopter dips and other human
> structures during a large fire near me), I've simply made a polygon tagged
> fire=perimeter, a name=* tag and a start_date.  I don't expect rendering,
> it's meant to be an "up to right about here" (inside the polygon is/was a
> burning fire, outside was no fire).  I wouldn't say it is more accurate
> than 20 to 50 meters on any edge, an "across a wide street" distance to be
> "off" is OK with me, considering this fire's size, but if a slight skew
> jiggles the whole thing into place better, feel free to nudge.  It's the
> tagging I'm interested in getting right, and perhaps wondering if or even
> that people enter gigantic fires that will significantly change landscape
> for some time into OSM, as I have done.  This will affect my local mapping,
> as a great much has burned.  Even after starting almost two weeks ago, as
> of 20 minutes ago this fire is 33% contained, with good, steady progress.
> These men and women are heroes.
> >
> > 

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Changeset Comments Copyright

[Clifford Snow]

On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 12:49 AM GITNE  wrote:

> On 09/23/2020 at 02:19 AM Clifford Snow wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 2:43 PM GITNE mailto:gi...@gmx.de>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello OSMF Legal Team,
> >
> > due to a quite troubling revelation by @SomeoneElse that changeset
> comments are
> > automatically republished by the third party private company Slack,
> I would
> > appreciate if you could share your legal assessment of this
> situation. More
> > specifically, what is the copyright status of changeset comments and
> which OSMF
> > document or agreement covers changeset comments?
> >
> >
> > Can you be more specific? Where is the data being republished?
>
> Unfortunately, no. I do not use Slack. So, I cannot provide a specific
> link or
> something. What I know is that @SomeoneElse reported that Slack has an
> automated
> feed which pulls changesets comments from OSM and republishes them on one
> of
> their channels.
>

I'm a regular user of Slack. I haven't seen such a feed. But more to the
point, Slack, the application by itself doesn't pull information from other
sources. It's up to the users to pull feeds in. For example there is a new
user feed which has a link to the users account and a link to their first
edit.
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Re: [Talk-us] place=neighborhood on subdivisions?

[Clifford Snow]

Steve,
If the boundaries exist, you could use admin_level=10.

Most of the neighborhoods I'm familiar with are just small subdivisions
within the city. For example, in Seattle I lived in the Wallingford
Neighborhood. Seattle has defined boundaries for each of the neighborhoods.
In other areas, neighborhoods are roughly defined by people living there.
In those cases using a place= tag makes more sense.

Clifford

On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 6:56 PM stevea  wrote:

> If you MUST tag place=neighbourhood (note the u) see if you agree with me
> that this tag makes most sense in a hierarchy where place=suburb (and
> perhaps quarter, if applicable, is/are above) also exist(s).  I'm not
> strictly saying I believe that place=neighbourhood CANNOT exist without
> place=suburb, but it makes me wrinkle my brow a bit at it not fitting as
> well as a landuse=residential (multi)polygon might rather generically and
> innocently (without any hierarchy required) fit in.
>
> SteveA
>
>
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Changeset Comments Copyright

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 2:43 PM GITNE  wrote:

> Hello OSMF Legal Team,
>
> due to a quite troubling revelation by @SomeoneElse that changeset
> comments are
> automatically republished by the third party private company Slack, I would
> appreciate if you could share your legal assessment of this situation. More
> specifically, what is the copyright status of changeset comments and which
> OSMF
> document or agreement covers changeset comments?
>

Can you be more specific? Where is the data being republished?

Best,
Clifford
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Re: [OSM-talk] Big Blue Button download

[Clifford Snow]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:50 AM Rory McCann  wrote:

> Great to see people using the BBB server. We didn't ask to delete
> anything, the video is still there (I sent you the link off-list). When you
> view the Room in BBB, you should see “Room Recordings” underneath, which
> should have the recordings, do you see that? Then click on “Presentation”,
> and you should be able to watch the video in your browser.
>

We were advised by Dorthea that recordings are not meant to be stored on
the server.

* Please note that recordings are not meant to be stored on the server for
a long
time, due to space restrictions.

Can you confirm that we can leave the recordings on the server and are able
to link to the recordings for other sites, like the wiki?

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Trouble with getting Superior National Forest boundary to render on standard map

[Clifford Snow]

Paul,
I don't have a definitive answer for you, but rendering usually takes a
while for large areas. I would expect it to render when zoomed in but
wasn't able to see any rendering on a couple of spot checks. I did notice
that around islands either the forest or the island, are shifted. I would
recommend cleaning those up.

Clifford

On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 1:19 PM Paul White  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I recently added the (super complicated) Superior National Forest boundary
> to OSM, because I noticed it was missing. However, it refuses to render on
> the standard map, even though I ran it through JOSM's validator with no
> problems. (link to relation)
>  I
> don't think it's due to the amount of members, because the Tongass National
> Forest I added recently, with over 10,000 members, renders fine. And I know
> it's not due to the tags on the relation; they are standard to other
> national forests.
>
> If someone could look into it and see what's causing it to break, that
> would be great.
>
> pj
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Potential Import of Addresses for Thurston County, WA, USA

[Clifford Snow]

Raven,
I would suggest you add the email contents to the contributors [1] section
of the wiki. I agree with you that we will be modifying their data by not
using their tags and adding ours. I would recommend making a note of that
on the wiki.

I am happy to help you get started with your import. If you have time, we
could do a video chat to go over how I do imports and what would work best
for you. Please email me off line with some time frames that would work for
you.

Clifford


[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#United_States#Washington_State

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 5:07 PM Raven King 
wrote:

> Alright I have an update:
>
> After an email chain with Thurston County GeoData Center, I finally got
> explicit permission to use the data in open street map.
>
> "Hello Raven,
>
> You can use the data in Open Street Maps and credit GeoData UNLESS you
> change the data in any way. If you change the data you can still use it
> in Open Street Maps but CANNOT credit GeoData and the County. We make
> no warrantees about the data temporally, spatially, or in terms of
> attribution.
>
> Please let me know if this helps to clarify the disclaimer or if you
> still have questions.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Leslie Carman
> GIS Analyst I"
>
> I can provide the entire email chain if required but this is the part
> that matters. As for the terms they gave me, what is the best way of
> handling this? My instinct is just to, in some very minor way, ensure every
> piece of data is modified somehow so future mappers do not have to worry
> about it. Does just adding it to OSM count as modification, since we
> convert the data fields?
>
> At this point, I would like to propose that we import this data, as
> this includes rural towns and unincorporated thurston
> county.
> I would divide the building footprints into small blocks to avoid well
> mapped areas.
> As for addresses, because they are points and there are so few
> addresses in my region, I feel like we could be more aggresive about
> that import, although how much so I am not certain.
>
>
> Also @Clifford Snow if you see this I would appreciate whatever you
> have to teach about imports.
>
> Sincerely,
> Raven
>
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] Use of OSM data without attribution

[Clifford Snow]

Hey Mike,
They definitely mention OSM, even call us a partner [1] but like you found
their basemap is definitely OSM. Instead of suggesting their users edit
OSM, they instead instruct them to email d...@openstreetmap.org,

All Trails is located in SF but I couldn't find any listing of a leadership
team.

Do you want to ask on Slack? Someone there might have a connection.


[1]
https://support.alltrails.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018930672-How-do-I-update-or-change-information-about-a-trail-

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 1:03 PM Mike Thompson  wrote:

> Has anyone tried contacting the AllTrails[0] people about their use of OSM
> without attribution?  I am not talking about the "OSM Map Layer" that they
> offer, but rather the default "AllTrails Map Layer."  At the very least it
> appears that the trails on that layer come from OSM.  I know that because I
> have entered some rather obscure informal trails in OSMe, and they show up
> in AllTrails just as I entered them in OSM.
> Mike
>
> [0] https://www.alltrails.com/ (in the search box enter the name of a
> trail, park, or city to see their map.)
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Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Re: Roadmap for deprecation of name tags in OSM

[Clifford Snow]

As I read your proposal, it sounds like you have a solution but haven't
defined the problem. If you could focus on the problem and describe exactly
what is wrong with the current arrangement, and what will happen if we do
nothing, that might help. Otherwise I can not see the merits of your
proposal. From what I've read for the feedback you've received, you haven't
convinced anyone that there is a problem.

Best,
Clifford


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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Import of Orange County, California Buildings and Addresses

[Clifford Snow]

Tod,
You might want to look into Paul Norman's ogr2osm.py [1] python tool which
can translate shapefiles into .osm files that can be uploaded using JOSM.
It's simple to use, just need to create a translation file for shapefile
fields to OSM tag.

I'm in the process of doing an import of building and addresses for
Marysville, WA. Way smaller than you import. The import page is
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Marysville_Import which has links to my
code including the ogr2osm.py translation scripts.

Feel free to contact me offline if you have any questions.

Best,
Clifford

[1] https://github.com/pnorman/ogr2osm

On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 3:06 PM Tod Fitch  wrote:

> I'm planning an import of buildings and addresses for Orange County,
> California. Information on the proposed import can be found on the wiki at
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Orange_County_Building_and_Address_Import
>
> This is a one time import using JOSM.
>
> A links to the data being imported given on the wiki and the data is
> marked as public domain.
>
> Note: There is an effort by ERSI to make this same dataset available to
> mappers working with the RapiD data via MapWithAI. For a description of
> that, see
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Orange_County,_California_Buildings
>
> This is my first attempt at an import so gentle guidance on following best
> procedures will be appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Tod
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Labeling forestry service roads/tracks

[Clifford Snow]

The legend is just for the USFS road layer that is served by Mapbox on JOSM.


Sent from my Android phone.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 4:48 PM Tod Fitch  wrote:

>
> On Jul 20, 2020, at 4:35 PM, Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:46 AM  wrote:
>
>> Clifford,
>>
>> Could you repost the legend? It's hard/impossible to make out the
>> surface reliably from aerial photos.
>>
>
> Sure - here is a link
> https://mycloud.snowandsnow.us/index.php/s/7zQNGbyNQqBMj2S
>
>
> Looks a bit different than the legend on my April 2020, Coconino National
> Forest Travel Map:
>
> https://cloud.fitchfamily.org/index.php/s/eKCYzc4TfjMMfdN
>
> —Tod
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Labeling forestry service roads/tracks

[Clifford Snow]

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:46 AM  wrote:

> Clifford,
>
> Could you repost the legend? It's hard/impossible to make out the
> surface reliably from aerial photos.
>

Sure - here is a link
https://mycloud.snowandsnow.us/index.php/s/7zQNGbyNQqBMj2S
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Re: [Talk-us] Labeling forestry service roads/tracks

[Clifford Snow]

If you are using JOSM there is a USFS road layer. The color of the way
indicates surface and highway classification if I remember correctly. I
posted the legend on Slack a couple of years ago.

The TIGER import data quality varied from region to region. Even today in
Washington State it's bad, so bad that I don't recommend using it. My guess
is that it's low priority for counties to update Feds, especially when
their budgets are already tight. There is even one county in Washington
State that they don't even have a current road layer.

Best,
Clifford

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 3:48 PM  wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Editing in Boundary County, Idaho in the Panhandle, I've been extending
> the forest landuse area around Bonners Ferry and have come across a
> difficulty in classifying forest roads.
>
> It seems that many have been automatically imported and have
> highway=residential, which is just plain wrong.
>
> For roads that appear metalled (paved) and/or access mines, quarries,
> communication towers etc. I label highway=service, for roads that are
> unpaved or sometimes seem to almost fade out I label highway=track. For
> roads that appear to be public access (e.g. to go to a lake) but are
> obviously even more minor than tertiary roads I label highway=unclassified.
>
> Is there a more consistent recommended method?
>
> The US Topo map gives forest road references so I add ref FS .
>
> TIGER seems to be at best very coarse, at worst fictional.
>
> Thanks.
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Finding Changesets to Correct or Revert

[Clifford Snow]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 11:56 AM Doug Peterson <
dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org> wrote:

> It's my fault for not zooming in more. I did not see it at all when I
> downloaded that area in JOSM. I sent a note to tyndale about that. I
> understand that there is a direction towards using boundary to replace
> state and county use of leisure=park. I have seen plenty of expections to
> those description, meaning state and county parks that are urban manicured
> parks. However, it is not an argument I'm going to pick. I would just like
> to be sure the parks don't disappear in the process, like this one.
>

I've added a number of state parks in Washington State. I'd be asking why.
boundary=state_park has little use and it is obvious that it doesn't
render.  Most of the discussion on state parks seems to be around tagging
it as a nature reserve. After some quick research, it appears that our
state only has two parks that a portion of the land is considered nature
reserve.

>
> What query feature did you use?
>

I use the OSM Website query tool
https://mycloud.snowandsnow.us/index.php/s/MeEjnCeidjB2QQr

>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Finding Changesets to Correct or Revert

[Clifford Snow]

I believe this is the park
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/549549501#map=14/41.9987/-86.5489.
Looking at the history, I see when you created it. It was changed to
boundary=park by user tyndale on changeset
openstreetmap.org/changeset/86836794

I don't believe boundary=state_park is appropriate. User tyndale didn't
offer any insight on why the change in the changeset comment. You might ask
them.

BTW - I found the park by using the query feature and looking at the
history.

Best,
Clifford

On Wed, Jul 8, 2020 at 9:04 AM Doug Peterson <
dougpeter...@dpeters2.dyndns.org> wrote:

> I have noticed that a state park has disappeared in Michigan. It is one
> that I had worked on. Many years ago I had used a tool to find changesets
> that affected a particular area but don't seem to be able to find something
> like that in my bookmarks or searching. I could put the boundaries back but
> I don't know what else might have been deleted in the process so I would
> like to find the changeset.
>
> Any recommendations?
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/42.0054/-86.5469
>
> Thank you,
>
> Doug Peterson
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Re: [Talk-us] relations on which thematic data can be connected? eg internet availabilty byt zipcode

[Clifford Snow]

Ray,
As  you learned from Spencer Alves, postal codes are not areas. As far as I
know there are no zip code areas in OSM. I would recommend using QGIS and
Postgis to construct your queries using OSM and TIGER zip code boundaries.

Are you looking for any broadband connectivity, just cellular, DSL, fiber,
satellite, or a combination of all of them? My experience is that cellular
maps often overstate their reach. Satellite internet service isn't really
that great because of the lag time involved. (Upcoming low earth orbit
communications satellites promise break thoughts )

Your project is interesting. I hope to read about your conclusions. BTW - I
do have friends that only get internet service via their cell phones.
Another even used to live off the grid on purpose. When we went looking for
a place in rural Washington, we definitely had to exclude places that
either didn't have internet service or the cell service was non-existent.

Good luck,
Clifford



On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 2:33 PM Ray Kiddy  wrote:

> Hello -
>
> I am interested in where people in the US lack internet connectivity and
> I keep thinking that I should be able to use OSM for some part of this.
>
> I am recalling (perhaps not accurately) that connectivity information is
> published by the FCC and I think that at least some of the information
> is per zipcode.
>
> This led me into a bit of a rat hole as I sought to find out if there
> are relations for zipcodes in the US. Does anyone know? I know that
> TIGER data defines lines that bound zipcodes. But can one craft a query
> that maps just the edges of a zipcode area? Are there then relations
> defined for those edges?
>
> I can keep thematic data on my own database but, so far, I do it by
> linking directly to a relation or way. If it had to be a set of
> relations, that would be unfortunate, but possible. But I am not seeing
> how to make the queries.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> cheers - ray
>
>
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>


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Re: [Talk-us] Labeling county roads (Idaho)

[Clifford Snow]

Be cautious using TIGER data in rural areas. I suspect many of the small
counties don't have the resources to send updates to Census. I'd recommend
looking at county and state data sources for accurate road names.

Best,
Clifford

On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 6:29 AM  wrote:

>
> Newby here.
>
> Started mapping an area of the Idaho panhandle around the Kootenai
> river. I notice that currently minor roads have a "County Road nn" name
> but TIGER2019 data also has names such as "Acacia Avenue". I think most
> map users would want to use the "Acacia Avenue" name as it what would be
> listed in postal addresses and they'd want to search it in applications
> such as OSMand. Question is how to handle this. Also, what to set the
> "ref" to for county roads.
>
> There's not much information on the roads tagging page:
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging#Individual_states_2
>
> Proposal: use alt_name for "County Road nn" and name for "Acacia Avenue"
> where a name is given. (I've seen name_1 used but this is not really a
> "standard" OSM tag, AFAIK.)
>
> For ref: set the ref to the county road number until someone can come up
> with a better proposal...
>
> Any Idahoans have any information?
>
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[OSM-talk] Microgrants Committee call for review

[Clifford Snow]

Greetings on behalf of the OSMF Microgrant Program Committee!

We have closed the call for proposals for this first ever iteration of the
program. We are already beginning the evaluation process for the submitted
proposals, which consist of promising projects that aim to have a positive
impact in the OSM community.

Now that all proposals are on the OSM Wiki, we invite the community to add
their endorsement in the endorsements section of each proposal they
support, and also click the "give feedback" button on the description to
add any questions or comments if they wish. The committee will bear this
community interaction in mind in our decision-making.

Feedback will be accepted until Thursday morning, 21 May 2020 (midnight
Pacific time US, 9am Central European Time, 7pm New Zealand time). After
this time the committee will make haste to arrive at a final decision.

Please consult the OSM Wiki page here to see the project links:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Microgrants/Microgrants_2020

We are pleased to receive community feedback on the proposals and look
forward to arriving at a decision as soon as possible in order to commence
the projects.

Thanks and best,

OSMF Microgrant Program Committee

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Re: [Talk-us] admin_level and COGs, MPOs, SPDs, Home Rule

[Clifford Snow]

Steve,
I don't have the patience to put up with discussions about admin levels. As
you know they can drag on forever. I did post a link to the discussion on
the Connecticut Slack channel. Maybe that will get more people involved.

Good luck,
Clifford

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 11:31 PM stevea  wrote:

> If you fancy yourself (or know one!) a political scientist steeped enough
> in US law, history and politics sufficient to discuss subtle, nuanced
> topics like Home Rule and Dillon's law, a Discussion in our wiki could use
> your wisdom and guidance.
>
> As the OSM community in USA discussed boundary=administrative at length in
> 2017, admin_level got "mostly" hashed out, with a "settled" consensus about
> COGs, MPOs, SPDs and their ilk.  (Briefly, admin_level=2 federal, 4 state,
> 6 county and 8 city/town are rough rungs, 7 emerged for townships and 5 is
> the multi-county glom-of-6s New York City, OSM's only 5 in the USA).  But
> COGs/MPOs/SPDs and their ilk stuck in many craws and apparently is
> difficult for some, even many.
>
> The topic is active again at
> https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Talk:United_States_admin_level#Recently_added_Connecticut_COG_.28Regions.29_as_5_and_CDP_as_10_should_be_deleted
> and seems to need the assistance of seasoned political scientists who can
> say whether a COG in Connecticut, for example, is "a government" or not.
> (I say a COG/MPO is a LIMITED government, like a sewer district, so isn't
> "really" a "full spectrum" government, therefore shouldn't get an
> admin_level value, as this key associates with boundary=administrative).
>
> Some Wikipedia links to "Home Rule in the USA" and "Dillon's Rule" are
> clickable at the end of that long Discussion, then I "run out of
> intellectual gas."  Please help this Discussion if you have this sort of
> knowledge / wisdom to contribute.
>
> Thank you,
> SteveA
> California
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>


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[OSM-talk] OSM Foundation’s Call for Microgrant Applications

[Clifford Snow]

In case you missed this announcement, I'm reposting it on talk-us mailing
list.


2020 will be the first year that the OSM Foundation operates the new
microgrants project. In the coming weeks, we hope to hear from you about a
bold, community-driven, and impactive OpenStreetMap project idea that will
benefit from a microgrant of up to 5000 euros. We welcome a broad range of
projects, with the minimum requirement being a clear connection to
OpenStreetMap.

What is a microgrant ? In our
case, it is a modest amount of funds awarded to applicants in order to fund
direct expenses of a project. For an idea of successful projects, you can
take a look at the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team’s 2019 microgrant
awardees
.
Keep in mind that the OSMF has a wider focus than the humanitarian sector,
spanning our global community, and welcomes applications with any focus
that relates to OpenStreetMap. We particularly encourage applicants to
consider the core values from the OSMF’s mission statement
and how any
microgrant work can incorporate them.

The OSMF Microgrant Program focuses on simple grant proposals, and we will
swiftly decide on what to fund. Our goal is to avoid a complicated and long
application and decision process. You should submit a brief and concise
proposal, and we plan to quickly announce the awardees.

We encourage submissions from individuals, groups, and organizations who
have a clear idea they want to pursue. Each project should be completed
within 12 months of the microgrant being awarded this spring. Microgrants
are open to all OSMF members, and can be submitted in any language. If you
are not yet a member of OSMF then you can apply to join
 up until the time you submit a microgrant
application, and be eligible for an award. Please note there is a fee
waiver program that may allow you to join the OSMF at no cost.


In light of the ongoing health crisis regarding COVID19, we will not be
awarding microgrants for projects which require offline group gatherings
and in person meetings, although these ideas are certainly valuable for
future rounds.

Funding can be used for a variety of purposes. You may need tools and
supplies for mapping activity, funds for training materials, technology
expenses for a series of virtual mapathons, prizes for an online coding,
mapping, or writing contest, and many more examples. Please embrace your
own creativity and not feel limited by the range of examples.


We encourage you to consult with your local OpenStreetMap community when
planning a microgrant application, and make sure you adhere to community
guidelines in the scope of the project. If accepted for a microgrant, you
will be responsible for reporting progress, signing a grant agreement, and
making sure to follow the detailed microgrant rules
. It is
strongly suggested that your project uses the funding to enable volunteer
work to have a wider and stronger impact than it would without funding.

The call for microgrants will open on April 19th, 2020 and we will continue
to accept applications through May 10th, 2020. In order to submit,  visit
the OSM Wiki page
 and
click on “Start your application”

to enter the template. When this is complete, send a message to microgrants
at osmfoundation.org. We also encourage sharing your application on
osmf-talk when it is submitted. If you need help with the submission
process, please feel free to contact the Microgrants Committee for help. If
you don’t have enough time to prepare your plan and application, please
consider submitting it in a possible future round of microgrants.

Once the submission period closes on May 10th, we invite the community to
review the complete list of submissions and provide feedback on the wiki
page. We also will accept feedback by email to microgrants at
osmfoundation.org and via osmf-talk.

Complete timeline:

   -

   April 19: call for microgrant applications opens
   -

   May 10: final date for submission (23:59 Pacific Time Zone, USA).
   -

   May 10-TBD: community feedback period
   -

   Late May: announcement of awards


For more details, see the complete rules and guidelines on the OSM wiki
 and
contact us at microgrants at osmfoundation.org with any questions. This is
the first time the OSMF is sponsoring such an activity, and we look forward
to learning together about how this benefits our community and how to build
a transparent, effective, and inclusive microgrants program for everyone
involved. We are grateful for the opportunity 

[Talk-us] OSM Foundation’s Call for Microgrant Applications

[Clifford Snow]

In case you missed this announcement, I'm reposting it on talk-us mailing
list.


2020 will be the first year that the OSM Foundation operates the new
microgrants project. In the coming weeks, we hope to hear from you about a
bold, community-driven, and impactive OpenStreetMap project idea that will
benefit from a microgrant of up to 5000 euros. We welcome a broad range of
projects, with the minimum requirement being a clear connection to
OpenStreetMap.

What is a microgrant ? In our
case, it is a modest amount of funds awarded to applicants in order to fund
direct expenses of a project. For an idea of successful projects, you can
take a look at the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team’s 2019 microgrant
awardees
.
Keep in mind that the OSMF has a wider focus than the humanitarian sector,
spanning our global community, and welcomes applications with any focus
that relates to OpenStreetMap. We particularly encourage applicants to
consider the core values from the OSMF’s mission statement
and how any
microgrant work can incorporate them.

The OSMF Microgrant Program focuses on simple grant proposals, and we will
swiftly decide on what to fund. Our goal is to avoid a complicated and long
application and decision process. You should submit a brief and concise
proposal, and we plan to quickly announce the awardees.

We encourage submissions from individuals, groups, and organizations who
have a clear idea they want to pursue. Each project should be completed
within 12 months of the microgrant being awarded this spring. Microgrants
are open to all OSMF members, and can be submitted in any language. If you
are not yet a member of OSMF then you can apply to join
 up until the time you submit a microgrant
application, and be eligible for an award. Please note there is a fee
waiver program that may allow you to join the OSMF at no cost.


In light of the ongoing health crisis regarding COVID19, we will not be
awarding microgrants for projects which require offline group gatherings
and in person meetings, although these ideas are certainly valuable for
future rounds.

Funding can be used for a variety of purposes. You may need tools and
supplies for mapping activity, funds for training materials, technology
expenses for a series of virtual mapathons, prizes for an online coding,
mapping, or writing contest, and many more examples. Please embrace your
own creativity and not feel limited by the range of examples.


We encourage you to consult with your local OpenStreetMap community when
planning a microgrant application, and make sure you adhere to community
guidelines in the scope of the project. If accepted for a microgrant, you
will be responsible for reporting progress, signing a grant agreement, and
making sure to follow the detailed microgrant rules
. It is
strongly suggested that your project uses the funding to enable volunteer
work to have a wider and stronger impact than it would without funding.

The call for microgrants will open on April 19th, 2020 and we will continue
to accept applications through May 10th, 2020. In order to submit,  visit
the OSM Wiki page
 and
click on “Start your application”

to enter the template. When this is complete, send a message to microgrants
at osmfoundation.org. We also encourage sharing your application on
osmf-talk when it is submitted. If you need help with the submission
process, please feel free to contact the Microgrants Committee for help. If
you don’t have enough time to prepare your plan and application, please
consider submitting it in a possible future round of microgrants.

Once the submission period closes on May 10th, we invite the community to
review the complete list of submissions and provide feedback on the wiki
page. We also will accept feedback by email to microgrants at
osmfoundation.org and via osmf-talk.

Complete timeline:

   -

   April 19: call for microgrant applications opens
   -

   May 10: final date for submission (23:59 Pacific Time Zone, USA).
   -

   May 10-TBD: community feedback period
   -

   Late May: announcement of awards


For more details, see the complete rules and guidelines on the OSM wiki
 and
contact us at microgrants at osmfoundation.org with any questions. This is
the first time the OSMF is sponsoring such an activity, and we look forward
to learning together about how this benefits our community and how to build
a transparent, effective, and inclusive microgrants program for everyone
involved. We are grateful for the opportunity 

Re: [Talk-ca] Tagging sidewalks as separate ways and issues with bicycle routing

[Clifford Snow]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 10:46 AM Martin Chalifoux via Talk-ca <
talk-ca@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> This morning I checked some large cities namely New-York, Paris,
> Amsterdam, London, Berlin. Since OSM is best developed in Europe these
> capitals make sense. I just checked Tokyo, Shangai, Seoul, Sydney to sample
> Asia. None of them have this sidewalk mapping as separate ways. I however
> found a bit of that scheme in San-Francisco.  I am not sure where this idea
> is coming from, who is backing this implementation and who it does service
> to, but it sure is a mess in many ways. And when the people adding that
> stuff will go away, who will maintain that complexity, the volunteers ? The
> use of tags as you suggest would be much cleaner and easier. The OSM
> database is used by a large community of navigation apps that will all have
> to deal with this one way or another to still provide meaningful navigation
> prompts that are not just like “walk on path, in 100m turn left on path, in
> 300m turn right on path", perhaps by filtering out these ways from their
> apps, I really don’t know. Otherwise everybody will move to Google Maps
> which sure won’t bother with that stuff. Anyhow, have to go back to
> self-quarantine, I feel a fever :-)
>

I'm one of those that map sidewalks as separate ways. I started mapping
sidewalks as road attributes but was frustrated by the connection at
intersections. While mapping sidewalks as separate ways does add to the
density of urban areas, there is some beauty to its completeness.  The
University of Washington Taskar Center for Accessibility pushed the schema
[1] and developed a demonstration website https://AccessMap.io for Seattle.
Their purpose was to help people with limited mobility navigate streets,
hills and curb ramps. Seattle is a good example of where it's needed. Hills
are steep  and not all intersections have curb ramps making life difficult
for people in wheelchairs or like myself who hate climbing those
steep streets :-)

Moving to Google Maps doesn't help someone in a wheelchair. Their routing
for pedestrians includes stairs and doesn't consider steepness or curb
ramps. Guess there is no money in it.

As to bicycles using sidewalks, I add bicycle=yes + separated=* when it's
designated on the street otherwise I leave it to city regulations and norms
to decide if the sidewalk can be used for cyclists. Although I did have a
discussion with county and state personnel about a new roundabout. I had
the bike route using the roundabout since the bike route was on the
highway. The state and county wanted the cyclist to get off the highway and
take the pedestrian footways to bypass the roundabout. I mapped it the way
they wanted, but my guess is the cyclists will just use the roundabout.

Best,
Clifford


[1] opensidewalks.com
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Re: [Talk-ca] Coastline Question

[Clifford Snow]

Adam,
I just looked at a recent CANVED File Geodatabase. The coast line appears
not to extend into the river. However, and this is a big however, the
metadata associated with the data doesn't have sufficient information to
say for certain what I'm looking at is actual shoreline. My guess is there
is better authoritative data available. I just grabbed the wrong data.

Best,
Clifford

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 3:20 PM Adam Martin  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I have been moving about the Island of Newfoundland addressing Keep Right!
> issues and adding missing features.  While doing so, I encountered an area
> of coastline along the Burin Peninsula that appears odd to me.
> Specifically, the Garnish River here:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/47.2322/-55.3473
>
> On the regular map, it looks fine.  In the iD Editor, however, the banks
> of the river are designated as the coastline.  Now, I know that this is
> reasonable in some circumstances (generally, where the ocean water is
> directly present in the waterway).  But if you look at it in the editor,
> the coastline doesn't stop in that area.  In fact, the coastline extends
> deep into the interior of the peninsula, tracing along the riverway all the
> way to just north of Clam Pond.  Again, I know this can be reasonable in
> cases where, if I recall correctly, the water itself is at ocean level or
> similar.  I recall there being wrangling over the St. Lawrence regarding
> the coastline designation, but this is nowhere near as big as that river.
>
> But I am from this Province and have lived on that peninsula - the entire
> place is a quagmire of hills and gullies.  I do not believe that this river
> is level with the ocean, at least not to this extent.  The data source for
> it is NRCAN CANVEC 8.0.  I reviewed the Natural Resources Canada "Toporama"
> map for the area to check the altitude of the river as it extends
> eastward.  The river passes to the south of "Morgans Pond" and, as it does
> so, crosses a 50ft topographical line there.  So, in my mind, that means
> that it must be descending as it moves to the west and can't be considered
> ocean at this point, at least.
>
> With that in mind, I am just looking for some input from the group here.
> I don't want to change something like that only to find I was wrong for one
> reason or another.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>


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Re: [Talk-us] Taking a break and a call for help

[Clifford Snow]

Paul,
I hope you have good luck recovering from having your truck stolen. (A
number of years ago, a neighbor had his van stolen in Seattle. It was
recovered in Portland not only in good shape, but with new leather seats -
which is certainly the exception.)

Obviously your job is very important, not only to you, but to the people
your hospital serves. Keep up the good work in these difficult times.

I just got back from a trip so I haven't had time to look at recent Amazon
edits that are now using RapidID. So far, I've had the good fortune with
good edits from their team. They have been responsive to my comments when
they do make mistakes. (Which is rare.)

Best,
Clifford



On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 4:07 PM Paul Johnson  wrote:

> So, you all know at this point that I've been heavily invested in editing
> OSM and contributing to my maximum activity, less as a need to help a
> charity and more of an obligation to the public to do the most good with
> the short time I have on this planet.  However, I've had a few events come
> up that are more or less killing my ability to keep up.
>
> I'm taking a step back from being the primary editor in the Oklahoma
> region until this passes.
>
> 3) Amazon Logistics and a revolving door team of one-edit-and-done spam
> accounts keeps throwing paid contributions into Oklahoma that are of poorly
> aligned, largely fictional and low quality.  I'm stuck cleaning up in a
> neglected part of North America some particularly low quality edits with
> limited resources and little ability to find more.  I hope other
> contributors can help keep abreast and I hope OSM Foundation can help keep
> paid contributors to account.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think
> that paid mapper should be contributing *far* higher quality data than
> your average volunteer first time mapper, and I think OSM needs to have a
> serious conversation about minimum qualifications for paid mapping that I
> simply don't have the time or energy for at this point.  Dealing with this
> (and staying abreast extensive OkTrans highway modernization efforts
> lately) have been a major part of my editing (and while OkTrans is
> unavoidable, Amazon is inexcusable).
>
> 2) My truck was stolen last night
> , along with
> the dashcams I use for Mapillary, essentially making long range surveying
> impossible and imperiling my survival since, if for nothing else, I need to
> hit Costco for restocking my pantry and storeroom.  As such, I had to call
> off work and spent most of the day today dealing with the police today.
>
> 1) I work in the IT department of a major regional hospital on the front
> lines of the COVID-19 response in the US.  My vacation at the end of next
> month, and my weekends for the next two months, have been cancelled, and
> I'm expected to work 8+ hours a day, 7 days a week to help keep things up
> and running so the medical staff don't have to think about the computers.
>
> I really hope OSMF and the DWG takes a good, hard and critical look at
> dealing with the low quality edits from Amazon and spammers while I deal
> with acquiring another (or, best case, my stolen) pickup and dealing with
> my professional life.
>
>
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>


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Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Taking a break and a call for help

[Clifford Snow]

Paul,
I hope you have good luck recovering from having your truck stolen. (A
number of years ago, a neighbor had his van stolen in Seattle. It was
recovered in Portland not only in good shape, but with new leather seats -
which is certainly the exception.)

Obviously your job is very important, not only to you, but to the people
your hospital serves. Keep up the good work in these difficult times.

I just got back from a trip so I haven't had time to look at recent Amazon
edits that are now using RapidID. So far, I've had the good fortune with
good edits from their team. They have been responsive to my comments when
they do make mistakes. (Which is rare.)

Best,
Clifford



On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 4:07 PM Paul Johnson  wrote:

> So, you all know at this point that I've been heavily invested in editing
> OSM and contributing to my maximum activity, less as a need to help a
> charity and more of an obligation to the public to do the most good with
> the short time I have on this planet.  However, I've had a few events come
> up that are more or less killing my ability to keep up.
>
> I'm taking a step back from being the primary editor in the Oklahoma
> region until this passes.
>
> 3) Amazon Logistics and a revolving door team of one-edit-and-done spam
> accounts keeps throwing paid contributions into Oklahoma that are of poorly
> aligned, largely fictional and low quality.  I'm stuck cleaning up in a
> neglected part of North America some particularly low quality edits with
> limited resources and little ability to find more.  I hope other
> contributors can help keep abreast and I hope OSM Foundation can help keep
> paid contributors to account.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think
> that paid mapper should be contributing *far* higher quality data than
> your average volunteer first time mapper, and I think OSM needs to have a
> serious conversation about minimum qualifications for paid mapping that I
> simply don't have the time or energy for at this point.  Dealing with this
> (and staying abreast extensive OkTrans highway modernization efforts
> lately) have been a major part of my editing (and while OkTrans is
> unavoidable, Amazon is inexcusable).
>
> 2) My truck was stolen last night
> , along with
> the dashcams I use for Mapillary, essentially making long range surveying
> impossible and imperiling my survival since, if for nothing else, I need to
> hit Costco for restocking my pantry and storeroom.  As such, I had to call
> off work and spent most of the day today dealing with the police today.
>
> 1) I work in the IT department of a major regional hospital on the front
> lines of the COVID-19 response in the US.  My vacation at the end of next
> month, and my weekends for the next two months, have been cancelled, and
> I'm expected to work 8+ hours a day, 7 days a week to help keep things up
> and running so the medical staff don't have to think about the computers.
>
> I really hope OSMF and the DWG takes a good, hard and critical look at
> dealing with the low quality edits from Amazon and spammers while I deal
> with acquiring another (or, best case, my stolen) pickup and dealing with
> my professional life.
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> talk...@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>


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Re: [OSM-talk] Is there some existing detailed tutorial directed at complete newbies? Describing how to add various features?

[Clifford Snow]

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 12:49 PM Wayne Emerson, Jr. via talk <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> The OSM World Discord server usually has people on that can answer basic
> questions https://discord.gg/q6HnfNZ
> Doing the iD tutorial teaches the basics and is easy to learn. One can
> learn the basic tags by using the presets found using the iD search box.
> Tagging a basic individual object can be learned from the wiki.
>

The iD tutorial is very helpful for new mappers. Completing the tutorial
only takes a few minutes. Unfortunately only a small percentage start or
complete the tutorial.  Since the first of the year of the nearly 6800 new
mappers only 29% complete the entire tutorial. While it doesn't get at
complex edits, it does cover what I see a typical new mapper contribute.

>
> However some tagging situations are more complex, like how to tag a school
> (What tags go on schoolyard vs. the building) or bus routes, or admin
> boundaries, etc. There are some nice guides buried in the wiki but it can
> be difficult for a beginner to wade through all the component tags before
> finding a guide to the whole. This can be discouraging to a new mapper.
> Even more so when you do find a guide, for example, on tagging bus routes
> but then not being sure if its the new scheme or the old scheme and so many
> contradictions can make people give up.
>

I agree with this assessment. Just yesterday a new mapper added a new park,
unfortunately one already existed. Because it was a complex multipolygon
I'm sure they did realize it.



>
> Wiki cleanup & a front page link to an index of authoritative & current
> tagging guides for complex entities would be nice. Maybe call it "Special
> Mapping Guides"
>

Creating nicer guides would be nice, but my experience, most new mappers
don't start looking at the wiki until much later. I do point to wiki
articles when giving feedback with the hope they will read it.

One of the other problems facing new and occasional mappers is the
complexity and density of many of the cities.  When I started in the US I
was able to add glaciers and parks with a clean palette to work from. Today
when mapping we have unlike features joined, complex relations, streets
with lane counts and turn lanes, streams, culverts, sidewalks, buildings,
etc.. It's much harder to for a new or occasional mapper to contribute
without problems.

Some might suggest we force new mappers to go through the tutorial. I don't
think that's the answer. It would turn too many people off. The only
solution I can suggest is to make our editing software more robust with
better hints and presets. For this I applaud iD for the many improvements
that have been made over the years.

Best,
Clifford
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Re: [Talk-ca] Importing buildings in Canada

[Clifford Snow]

I've done a number of building imports using no square shapes with no
problem. JOSM is set to open up new tasks in a separate layer which avoid
the problem of having task loading next the the just closed task. (I'm
doing the imports in the US using voting districts. Each district typically
has about 200-250 houses. None of them are ever square. Perfect for an
import.)

Best,
Clifford

On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 2:06 PM Daniel @jfd553  wrote:

> Bonjour groupe,
>
> I should soon be able to feed the task manager with tiles containing no
> more than 200 buildings each.
>
>
>
> I will be using a Quadtree algorithm similar to what was used to split
> Canvec map sheets. The problem is that the algorithm creates tiles that
> keep the aspect ratio of the data bounding box. I am currently modifying
> the algorithm to generate square tiles instead, which is much more adapted
> for editing with JOSM.
>
>
>
> Daniel
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Re: [Diversity-talk] Diversity 2020 Article

[Clifford Snow]

Personally I don't think OSM having a CoC would reach to social media with
the possible exception of a person writing as an official of OSM, such as a
board member or working group. The goal of a CoC is to create a
welcoming inclusive community within OSM. Social media can be a toxic
environment that we as a community can't control. Yes, I'd like to see
Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, etc. clean up their act, but we have little or
no influence to do so. I live by one of Stephen Covey principles that we
should focus on what we have influence over not on our circle of concern.
What we do have is influence over is how inclusive and welcoming our
community treats other. We may be concerned about what's on Twitter,
Facebook, etc. but have no influence.

Best,
Clifford

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 8:17 PM Marc Gemis  wrote:

> Would a Code of Conduct also apply to social media that are not
> controlled by OSM/OSMF?
> E.g. Twitter is currently used by a certain part of the community to
> ridicule and criticize people writing on the mailing lists.
>
> regards
>
> m.
>
> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 1:16 AM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> https://www.techrepublic.com/article/diversity-why-open-source-needs-to-work-on-it-in-2020/
> is an interesting read. The article talks about open source, but I don't
> see any significant difference between an open data project or an open
> source software project.
> >
> > What I took away from the article is
> >
> > We need to be more inclusive
> > Men (especially over 45) don't see diversity as an issue
> > Younger community members see things getting better
> > We need a clear and enforced Code of Conduct to create a welcoming
> community
> > Quotas are not the answer
> >
> > Just for the record, I'm a while male over (way over) 45.
> >
> > Happy New Year,
> > Clifford
> >
> > --
> > @osm_washington
> > www.snowandsnow.us
> > OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
> > ___
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> > Code of Conduct:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Diversity/MailingList/CodeOfConduct
> > Contact the mods (private): diversity-talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>


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[Diversity-talk] Diversity 2020 Article

[Clifford Snow]

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/diversity-why-open-source-needs-to-work-on-it-in-2020/
is
an interesting read. The article talks about open source, but I don't see
any significant difference between an open data project or an open source
software project.

What I took away from the article is

   - We need to be more inclusive
   - Men (especially over 45) don't see diversity as an issue
   - Younger community members see things getting better
   - We need a clear and enforced Code of Conduct to create a welcoming
   community
   - Quotas are not the answer

Just for the record, I'm a while male over (way over) 45.

Happy New Year,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Preliminary Import/Organized Mapping Effort Idea

[Clifford Snow]

I asked the Jamestown S'Klallam Tribe, near Sequim, WA for updated
boundaries. The state boundaries did not match what was on the tribes
website. They provided me with an update - the same one they just sent the
Census Bureau. With the 2020 census my guess is that TIGER might have some
good boundaries. (I didn't ask, but found it interesting that Census came
directly to the tribe instead of BIA.)

Jamestown S'Klallam brings up the question of rendering off reservation
trust lands. I asked Jamestown, they recommended rendering it differently.
For those not on Slack, I asked the same question there - should we create
a rendering for off reservation trust lands? This tribe is a good example
of why we might want to. They have substantially more off reservation lands
than reservation lands. The tribe closest to me (Swinomish) has one small
lot of off reservation land, but a large reservation. They could probably
care less. (The lot is located in downtown La Conner - a small tourist town
nearby. It's not in OSM. )

I'd like others opinion of rendering. Washington maybe totally different
than the rest of the country.

Happy New Years All,
Clifford

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 5:22 PM Paul Johnson  wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 7:18 PM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> I've reached out to a couple of the nearby reservations, one with a small
>> parcel of off reservation land trust, the other with only a small
>> reservation but a very large off reservation land trust. I don't expect
>> answers until possibly after the new year. Unlike Oklahoma, Washington
>> reservations are pretty straight forward. The Yakama Nation has a large
>> disputed area but I'm inclined to show it as reservation land. I haven't
>> updated it yet because the borders are tied up in multiple relations that
>> need undoing.
>>
>
> Well, that's mostly fortunate.  The disputed area and definitely Fort
> Simcoe would be potentially sore spots to look out for and look into more
> if reasonable.
>


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Re: [Talk-us] FW: US Bicycle Route 1 through Daytona Beach

[Clifford Snow]

Kerry - the new cycle path has been added. See
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/29.19623/-81.01173

Do you know if it is paved or what kind of surface? Is it supposed to
connect to the ECG, the East Coast Greenway route? From Strava it doesn't
appear to?

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 4:41 PM Kerry Irons  wrote:

> Thanks Clifford.  I will explore ways Adventure Cycling might recruit
> mappers.
>

Let us know if we could help with your website by providing instructions on
how to update OSM.

As a side note, Tesla drivers discovered that the cars use OSM basemaps.
They have been updating parking lots so drivers can "summons" their
vehicles. When it was discovered we had a big increase in new mappers.

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] FW: US Bicycle Route 1 through Daytona Beach

[Clifford Snow]

I passed along your request on the US Slack Channel. Sam Ley is going to
take a look at the area tonight.

Can you also ask your subscribers to add the route? Do you have
instructions on your site to add and update cycle routes in OSM which could
help us get more needed mappers?

Best,
Clifford

On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 2:19 PM Kerry Irons  wrote:

> All,
>
> Another "bike path that doesn't show up in OCM or OSM" in FL.  This is in
> Daytona Beach: neither Google Maps or OpenStreetMap show the new bike path
> at Bethune Point Park between Bellevue Ave. and Shady Pl.  It does show up
> on Google Satellite but when you "Get Directions" with Google Maps and
> choose the bicycle icon from the choice list, Google Maps routes you onto
> S. Beach St.  The city wants USBR 1 to use this path but it's not possible
> to provide them with a route map when OSM doesn't recognize this path.
> I've suggested to the City that they should notify Google Maps but I'm
> guessing the OSM community can put this right well before Google would
> respond.
>
> Any OSM mappers on the ground near Daytona Beach that can capture this new
> bike path in OSM?
>
>
> Kerry Irons
> Adventure Cycling Association
> 989-513-7871
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Preliminary Import/Organized Mapping Effort Idea

[Clifford Snow]

I've reached out to a couple of the nearby reservations, one with a small
parcel of off reservation land trust, the other with only a small
reservation but a very large off reservation land trust. I don't expect
answers until possibly after the new year. Unlike Oklahoma, Washington
reservations are pretty straight forward. The Yakama Nation has a large
disputed area but I'm inclined to show it as reservation land. I haven't
updated it yet because the borders are tied up in multiple relations that
need undoing.

Best,
Clifford

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 4:42 PM David Bartecchi 
wrote:

> All of these concerns must be weighed against the fact that the current
> absence of Native lands in OSM only contributes to the erasure Native
> Americans and their lands from the American collective conscience.
>
> Dave
>
> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 5:27 PM Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
>> Content warning: Aboriginal abuse mention
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 2:08 PM Clifford Snow 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I do have Washington State tribal lands available [1]  as a background
>>> layer for JOSM. There is also a vector tile layer [2] of the same
>>> background available for iD users.
>>>
>>> The data contains the name in english and the land type of Disputed
>>> Area, Off-Reservation Trust Land, Reservation, and Tribal Headquarters.
>>> Only 4 disputed areas but 60 Off-Reservation areas. Some people include
>>> Off-Reservation in tribal lands while others do not. My sense is that they
>>> should be tagged as boundary=aboriginal_lands. I'd like to hear the opinion
>>> of the group.
>>>
>>
>> The TLDR: I, personally, have not been including trust lands in Oklahoma,
>> for pragmatic reasons.  The situation is complicated, painful to many, and
>> politically loaded on a level where I don't think OSM should sort out trust
>> lands yet.
>>
>> I'm aware of several dozen trust exclaves, but they all fall into one of
>> three categories.
>>
>>1. The exclave is presently unclaimed or claimed but no longer
>>occupied by multiple tribes, and thus the status is ambiguous other than
>>it's within BIA jurisdiction.  Most Oklahoma exclaves fall into this
>>category, and it's really complicated.
>>2. The exclave is claimed by one tribe but it's ability to establish
>>a presence and primary jurisdiction is in question.  There's an exclave in
>>Boise, OK where one of the tribes (not sure which, but pretty sure not
>>mine) presently has plans to open a travel center and casino, however, 
>> this
>>exclave is hundreds of kilometers from their jurisdictional area and
>>whether or not they can even claim the exclave is nebulous.  It's
>>effectively tribal terra nullius.
>>3. The Chilocco Indian Residential School.  This one gets super
>>touchy.  The school, which closed in 1980, has sat abandoned and uncared
>>for since, yet can't be torn down without considerable red tape since the
>>site is on the National Historic Register.  The school is currently
>>assigned to five additional tribes in the immediate region, and they
>>cooperatively ran a rehabilitation center for the school's victims at the
>>site in the 1990s and 2000s, but the rehab facility has also sat abandoned
>>since at least 2011 with no plans for the site, and the whole enclave
>>currently is off limits to everyone, very intermittently used as a 
>> training
>>ground for federal police agencies, further rubbing sandpaper into 
>> unhealed
>>wounds for many.  No surprise, the original school that operated for 98
>>years is widely criticized for most of its existence, and especially in 
>> its
>>final decade of operation, for being little more than a concentration camp
>>for indian children as part of the US's plan for Americanization of
>>indians. As far as I can tell, abuse at the school was institutionalized,
>>frequent and persistent enough it's hard not to imagine it wasn't by
>>design.  It might as well be scorched earth.
>>
>> Add this into the fact that not all of Oklahoma's tribes (or even the
>> relevant tribes that potentially have claim to these parcels) get along
>> with each other.  Add that Governor Stitt has been talking about cancelling
>> state compacts with the tribes this month, and we're actually seeing nearly
>> unprecedented intertribal unity and cooperation right now (weird how a
>> common threat does that).
>>
>> All that said, my read on the situation?  Trying to sort out the trust
>> lands in Oklahoma is politica

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Preliminary Import/Organized Mapping Effort Idea

[Clifford Snow]

Mike,
Thanks to you, David and Paul for taking the initiative to mapping Natiive
American Reservations. On and off for the last few years I've been
attempting to reservations mapped in Washington State. My first choice for
boundary information has always been from the reservation then the state.
I've avoided BIA because their data doesn't seem accurate, at least at the
time when I first started adding reservations. I look forward to seeing how
it compares to the boundaries I added.

I especially applaud your desire to involve Native American youth in the
project. I have struggled to make any headway getting the tribes involved.
Related to that I've been asking people I know that work for the tribes
about adding features in their native language. A number of the tribes
around me are working hard to ensure their languages not only survives but
flourishes. I'm hoping with my connections I can partner with the tribe get
them to actively contribute to OSM using their native language. It is
something you might also consider doing.

Let me know how I can help,
Clifford

On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 4:35 PM Mike Thompson  wrote:

>
> Village Earth's Native Land Advocacy Project[1], David Bartecchi[2], Paul
> Johnson[3], and I[4] are considering an organized effort to improve the
> boundaries of Native American Reservations in the US.  We have studied the
> import guidelines on the wiki and will follow those, however, we first
> wanted to see:
>
> 1) If there was any fundamental objection to this idea before even the
> details are spelled out
>
> 2) If anyone is already working on this issue.
>
> 3) If anyone would like to join us.
>
>
> We are thinking that our general approach will be:
>
> 1) Use data from this source:
> https://biamaps.doi.gov/dataDownload/index.htmlIt has a compatible
> license, but will verify and document as part of this process.
>
> 2) Somehow allow mappers to "check out" a particular reservation's
> boundary.  Exact mechanism is TBD.
>
> 3) A human mapper will examine each boundary individually
>
> 4) Where OSM does not have a corresponding reservation boundary, the
> mapper will import the boundary into OSM (not sure of the exact mechanics
> at this time).  If the boundary needs to participate in a boundary
> relation, that will be handled here. Tag mapping is TBD at this point.
> Any conflicts with existing OSM features will be addressed in this step.
>
> 5) Where OSM has a boundary and it does not match the above source, and it
> has not been edited by a human mapper, proceed as in 4 above, except only
> replace geometry and preserve the history of the existing OSM features.
>
> 6) Where OSM has a boundary and it does not match our source, but it has
> been edited by a human mapper, use additional sources, including tribal
> sources, and county sources, to determine the true boundary and make
> necessary edits in OSM.  Deference will be given to the edits made by local
> mappers.
>
> To be determined:
> We are aware of some cases where different government bodies (e.g. Federal
> Government vs. a state government) dispute the extent of a reservation.
>
> Long term we would like to involve Native Americans, particularly youth
> living on reservations, in adding additional details to OSM about
> reservations, such as street names, amenities, etc., but we don't envision
> this as part of this import/organized effort process.
>
> We look forward to your initial feedback on this preliminary concept.
>
> Mike
>
>
> [1] Village Earth is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization that has worked in
> Indian Country for over 20 years and works closely with the Indian Land
> Tenure Foundation
> [2] David works for Village Earth
> [3] Most people on this list are probably familiar with Paul, a long time
> contributor to OSM
> [4] My OSM user name is tekim, I have been mapping in OSM since 2009.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Facebook map frequency of updates?

[Clifford Snow]

DaveF,
FB is working on the problem. They hope to be able to speed up the process
which as I understand from a SOTM-US talk involved finding vandalism and
other garbage edits.

It will be a few months before the update their maps then they expect to
refresh more often.

Best,
Clifford

On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 11:12 AM Dave F via talk 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> An owner of an art centre in the UK has contacted me to ask why the 10
> month old edits to the centre's building haven't appeared in Facebook.
> Looking around it appears the render FB are using is more than 12 months
> old. Is this delay standard for FB. Disappointing if it is as it shows
> OSM in a bad light. One of the USPs is it's frequent turn around.
>
> Is anybody in contact with FB's hierarchy or have a contact (UK maybe)?
>
> DaveF
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] I added MAPS.ME to list of entities using OSM data illegally (without proper attribution)

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 11:33 AM Nuno Caldeira 
wrote:

> Speaking of attribution, here's a great example by Microsoft Bing maps,
> that has attribution based on the zoom level, they seem to be using OSM
> buildings and HERE roads
> https://www.bing.com/maps?cp=39.97203083116834~-8.634339=10=r=BMLOGO
>
>
> Up until they got contacted by OSMF to fix the attribution, nothing will
> happen and won't comply. They do not reply or give lazy excuses when a
> contributor approaches them
>
Nuno I'm confused by your statement on Bing maps. The clearly attribute OSM
when zoomed in. If they only use HERE data when zoomed out, what
requirements do they have to attribute OSM and if so on what basis? When
zoomed in, both HERE and OSM are attributed.

OT - One of the problems I noticed using two different data sources in
Portugal is roads intersecting buildings. I've never been to Portugal - how
good is OSM compared to HERE? Why can't they drop HERE and just use OSM?

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] I added MAPS.ME to list of entities using OSM data illegally (without proper attribution)

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 11:33 AM Nuno Caldeira 
wrote:

> Speaking of attribution, here's a great example by Microsoft Bing maps,
> that has attribution based on the zoom level, they seem to be using OSM
> buildings and HERE roads
> https://www.bing.com/maps?cp=39.97203083116834~-8.634339=10=r=BMLOGO
>
>
> Up until they got contacted by OSMF to fix the attribution, nothing will
> happen and won't comply. They do not reply or give lazy excuses when a
> contributor approaches them
>
Nuno I'm confused by your statement on Bing maps. The clearly attribute OSM
when zoomed in. If they only use HERE data when zoomed out, what
requirements do they have to attribute OSM and if so on what basis? When
zoomed in, both HERE and OSM are attributed.

OT - One of the problems I noticed using two different data sources in
Portugal is roads intersecting buildings. I've never been to Portugal - how
good is OSM compared to HERE? Why can't they drop HERE and just use OSM?

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Townships, Counties, Great Lakes

[Clifford Snow]

On Sat, Oct 5, 2019 at 10:18 AM Max Erickson  wrote:

> I've recently been working on adding administrative boundaries for
> townships in Michigan (old USGS paper maps show the boundaries, I'm tracing
> those). Previously I've concluded that counties in Michigan don't really
> extend into the Great Lakes. The sheriff has jurisdiction on the water
> (extending into the water near adjacent counties), but that's about the end
> of it. For the most part Michigan counties are modeled like that, using the
> shoreline as part of the boundary.
>
> What I am wondering about is whether townships should also use the
> shoreline, splitting it into quite a few more pieces than currently exist.
> The alternative would be a ways that share nodes with the shoreline. I'm
> leaning in that direction but I figure it will be a pretty noisy change, so
> I'm asking what people think before proceeding.
>
> Just recently I looked at some of the county borders in Washington State.
For example, Skagit County, where I reside, extends into Puget Sound where
it shares boundaries with Island County, San Juan County and Whatcom County
to the north. Each of the counties like you said have jurisdiction not only
of the water but also tide flats. Other counties share boundaries using the
middle of rivers. Having the boundaries exactly as the state specifies can
help OSM users determine which agency to contact. In fact, I reported to
our county gis their parcel layer doesn't match the states description of
the county boundary. (Whether or not they fix it is a whole different can
of worms.)

On the other hand, State Parks often extend into lakes and ocean. I've
talked to the state parks department who is okay with the boundary stopping
at the shoreline.

Best,
Clifford
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Re: [Talk-us] Maine leaf-off imagery?

[Clifford Snow]

On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 8:16 AM Bill Ricker  wrote:

> I would also be interested in how to use LAZ files with OSM tools or other
> FLOSS tools.
> (I note there's an open tool to uncompress LAZ to LAS.)
> I see some tutorials for extracting buildings, but I'm interested in
> traces of former land-use - finding artificial linear ground features under
> the foliage.
>

I use QGIS with LAS files. I haven't used it but https://laszip.org/ tools
should help with the conversion from laz to las. Once I have the lidar
loaded, roads and other features can be traced into either a geojson or
shapefile for loading into JOSM. QGIS isn't as easy as iD or JOSM to draw
features but adequate for most purposes.

I did see a presentation on using ML for extracting buildings and other
objects from Lidar. They were able to not only do an excellent job of
extracting buildings but could also extract high voltage power lines. The
company rep that gave the presentation does flights over high voltage power
lines to check for vegetation growth that may require trimming.

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Maine leaf-off imagery?

[Clifford Snow]

Is there any lidar data available for the area? It might be a good
substitute for leaf-off imagery.

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 6:19 PM Kevin Broderick 
wrote:

> Anyone have an ODbL-compatible source of leaf-off imagery for Maine, by
> any chance? I'm particularly interested in the area around Bethel, as I'm
> trying to update minor roadways, add buildings with driveways, etc.,
> and even switching between the various imagery available in id leaves a lot
> of questions unanswered. Leaf-off imagery would be incredibly helpful, the
> more so if it were actually recent.
>
> (Yes, I've been surveying where feasible, but I'm not about to start going
> up driveways to get building dimensions.)
>
> Many thanks.
>
> --
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Re: [OSM-talk] stalking, or stepping on someone's toes (area) ?

[Clifford Snow]

There are some tools like osmcha.mapbox.com that allows users to watch
edits in specific areas. For example, I watch for new editors in my state.
I also watch all edits in a wide geographical area around me.

I'm sorry that the person is not giving you better feedback on how to
improve. Feel free to post a changeset comment to help us understand the
issue better and to offer suggestions on how to edit the feature. That is
assuming that the other person knows what they are talking about.

Best,
Clifford

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 2:34 PM 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk <
talk@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Are there programs that are spying on me, like they do in wikipedia –
> wikidata in real time, that is see
>
> what i am doing , or is there a way of seeing  point edits by name, that
> is every time someone edits, adds
>
> a certain  named point ?
>
>Every time i go out on the  bus (no car) a few miles from my on the
> ground area
>
> and see things like new bus stops, etc. when i get back to my computer i
> add them to the map
>
> if they were of course not there, and every time someone comes along and
> changes things
>
> or adds things in that area based on tracing and not real time.
>
> also i get messages from the same person with bus stops saying i have done
> it wrong
>
> without telling where it is a rule, it seems this one person controls all
> bus routes in a
>
> 3,446 square miles area, but does not add all the stops and “the bus will
> stops anywhere
>
> along the route where it is safe to do so” and these are where i pick up
> the bus
>
> and there not all on his downloaded list or live map.
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Clifford Snow]

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 1:24 PM Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> On Sunday 08 September 2019, Simon Poole wrote:
> >
> > But in any case the guideline refers to the  "visible map rendering".
> > At least in conventional use of the term, aerial imagery is not a
> > map, but if you so which we could surely add a definition for "map"
> > that makes it clear that we are referring to the rendering of map
> > vector data and similar and not image-like layers.
>
> I think i have made my point that your concept of quantifying data
> fractions is based on a very fragile understanding of the granularity
> of the data involved - not a good basis for any kind of universal
> rules.
>
> Yes, you can try patching the holes in this concept by re-defining what
> a map is but at the end of the day to define a relative fraction of OSM
> data use as a quantitative cutoff for an 'attribution light' is just a
> bad idea IMO.
>

Christoph,
What would you recommend and how can it be implemented and tested to insure
compliance with the license? How does the user of OSM data figure out what
data is counted in the threshold for requiring full attribution. Especially
when the OSM usage may just be a basemap from a 3rd party tile server.

Using examples like:
1. Using just the coastal shoreline in the basemap
2. Using OSM basemap in 1 along with roads, rivers and water bodies
3. Using OSM basemap with 2 and buildings
etc.

Best,
Clifford


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Re: [Talk-ca] Piggyback a SOTM bid with FOSS4G in Calgary

[Clifford Snow]

Martijn and Heather,
Can I suggest joining the Canadian Slack,
https://slackinviteosmcanada.herokuapp.com/ to give your comments. This
mailing list doesn't seem to be as active since the start of osm-ca slack
workgroup.



On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 10:07 AM Heather Leson 
wrote:

> Hey this is amazing
>
> Fingers crossed for calgary
>
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2019, 18:44 Martijn van Exel,  wrote:
>
>> Not Canadian and definitely not local to Calgary, but I just wanted to
>> chime in to say I really enjoyed it when SOTM and FOSS4G were both in
>> Denver, and I would love for that to happen again. If I can somehow support
>> I'd be happy to.
>> --
>>   Martijn van Exel
>>   m...@rtijn.org
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019, at 11:26, Clifford Snow wrote:
>>
>> The 2020 FOSS4G is being held August 24-29 in Calgary. This seems like a
>> good opportunity to submit a SOTM bid for either the weekend before or the
>> weekend after. I have a number of friends that can get funding from their
>> company to one but not both. Having both conferences in the same week will
>> get us more participation.
>>
>> SOTM 2020 bids [1] are due next week, August 30th, so there isn't much
>> time left. I know that a couple of the lead people for FOSS4G are willing
>> the help.
>>
>> What are your thoughts on bidding on the 2020 SOTM?
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/Call_for_venues
>>
>> Best,
>> Clifford
>>
>> --
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[Talk-ca] Piggyback a SOTM bid with FOSS4G in Calgary

[Clifford Snow]

The 2020 FOSS4G is being held August 24-29 in Calgary. This seems like a
good opportunity to submit a SOTM bid for either the weekend before or the
weekend after. I have a number of friends that can get funding from their
company to one but not both. Having both conferences in the same week will
get us more participation.

SOTM 2020 bids [1] are due next week, August 30th, so there isn't much time
left. I know that a couple of the lead people for FOSS4G are willing the
help.

What are your thoughts on bidding on the 2020 SOTM?


[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/Call_for_venues

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Clifford Snow]

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 7:35 AM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I wonder if we could perhaps get rid of the "Contributors" mention
> altogether.
>

I agree, I've often felt that the OpenStreetMap Contributors was unwieldy.
If we agree to the change, I imagine that OpenStreetMap would need to be
redefined to include its data contributors.

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-ca] Problems with tagging of islands/islets in a river

[Clifford Snow]

Thanks - I'm traveling right now or I would have.

On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 8:01 AM John Marshall  wrote:

> I will fix it.
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 10:47 AM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> The multipolygon of the river where the islands are missing appears to be
>> wrong. JOSM should be able to fix it.
>>
>> Clifford
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 7:26 AM Steffen Roller 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rendering of islands/islets in a river
>>>
>>> I was missing several islands on 'my' Grand River while paddling.
>>> I don't understand how to change the attributes of an island in order to
>>> get it properly rendered.
>>>
>>> Have a look at this example:
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/43.3858/-80.3649
>>> There are two islands on this map: The one to the West is rendered as
>>> I'd expect.
>>> The one the East just shows a few symbols for "wood".
>>> Looking at the attributes I can't tell the difference. What do I have to
>>> change on the Easterly island to make it look like an island once it's
>>> rendered?
>>>
>>> -st
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
>>
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>

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Re: [Talk-ca] Problems with tagging of islands/islets in a river

[Clifford Snow]

The multipolygon of the river where the islands are missing appears to be
wrong. JOSM should be able to fix it.

Clifford

On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 7:26 AM Steffen Roller 
wrote:

> Rendering of islands/islets in a river
>
> I was missing several islands on 'my' Grand River while paddling.
> I don't understand how to change the attributes of an island in order to
> get it properly rendered.
>
> Have a look at this example:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/43.3858/-80.3649
> There are two islands on this map: The one to the West is rendered as I'd
> expect.
> The one the East just shows a few symbols for "wood".
> Looking at the attributes I can't tell the difference. What do I have to
> change on the Easterly island to make it look like an island once it's
> rendered?
>
> -st
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Re: [OSM-talk] Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

[Clifford Snow]

Nuno - On a Facebook Android app I checked [1] they also use the "i" symbol
with a link to our attribution. I agree that they could do better, when the
map is opened up there is space for proper attribution but they only give a
very dim "i" symbol, but it is attributed. On the website, the map is
actually very small.

I am located in the US and this isn't my Facebook App since I no longer
have a FB account.

[1]  https://mycloud.snowandsnow.us/index.php/s/EpH8we2PW5pTbfS




On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 2:45 PM Nuno Caldeira 
wrote:

> They do not.
>
> Examples: https://twitter.com/iamnunocaldeira/status/1131190612529688577
>
> https://www.facebook.com/recommendations those map previews contains OSM
> data and there's no attribution.
>
> It gets worst if you use their apps (iOS, Android or Windows app)
>
> And as i mentioned this is not about how they attribute, that's a whole
> different thing. It's them not complying with the license. Point me a
> facebook page where they have ODbL database notice as requested on 4.2 c).
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Terminate Facebook rights under ODbL

[Clifford Snow]

Facebook does attribute using the "I" symbol as does Mapbox. Is that the
issue?


On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 2:12 PM Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

> 9 Jun 2019, 22:31 by frede...@remote.org:
>
> As you rightly say, while the OSMF board's cooperation might be required
> for a few legal aspects, there are many potential avenues of "direct
> action" that people could take to, but apparently the issue is not
> *that* big for most
>
> I would be happy to spend some real effort here but my investigation
> concluded
> that OSMF would need to act and I found no useful things that I can do.
>
> Can you recommend something that I can do to increase chance that
> Facebook will cease to violating OSM license?
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Re: [OSM-talk] Documenting controversial iD decisions

[Clifford Snow]

Why should one editor be held to higher standards than others? Shouldn't
they all be held to the same standard?

On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 4:53 PM john whelan  wrote:

> The problem with iD is the fact that it is the default editor on the web
> page of the website which implies that everything is OpenStreetMap approved
> which unfortunately is not the case.
>
> If it's placed as the default editor then I think it needs to be held to a
> higher standard or some sort of change management system implemented.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On Tue, May 28, 2019, 7:47 PM Clifford Snow, 
> wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>> Don't you think to be fair that you should include all outside projects,
>> such as JOSM, Potlatch, CartoCSS, etc? None of them are controlled by OSMF
>> as far as I know. To just look at one software project seems like we
>> already reached a decision, we just need the data to back it up.
>>
>> Best,
>> Clifford
>>
>> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 3:47 PM Michael Reichert 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I started documenting controversial decisions by the maintainers of iD
>>> at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ID/Controversial_Decisions
>>>
>>> Currently, only the highway=footway and the nonsquare=yes issue are
>>> mentioned.
>>>
>>> Please feel free to add other issues which have proofed controversial so
>>> far. Don't forget to summarise the opinion of the maintainer as well to
>>> aim at least some neutrality as far as it is possible for those involved
>>> in the disputes. Please add links to relevant discussions as well.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> ausgenommen)
>>> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
>>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Documenting controversial iD decisions

[Clifford Snow]

Michael,
Don't you think to be fair that you should include all outside projects,
such as JOSM, Potlatch, CartoCSS, etc? None of them are controlled by OSMF
as far as I know. To just look at one software project seems like we
already reached a decision, we just need the data to back it up.

Best,
Clifford

On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 3:47 PM Michael Reichert 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I started documenting controversial decisions by the maintainers of iD
> at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ID/Controversial_Decisions
>
> Currently, only the highway=footway and the nonsquare=yes issue are
> mentioned.
>
> Please feel free to add other issues which have proofed controversial so
> far. Don't forget to summarise the opinion of the maintainer as well to
> aim at least some neutrality as far as it is possible for those involved
> in the disputes. Please add links to relevant discussions as well.
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael
>
>
> --
> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
> ausgenommen)
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Power pole validation (was: mass iD validation arrives in NYC)

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 1:59 PM Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

>
>
>
> 28 May 2019, 22:10 by cliff...@snowandsnow.us:
>
> I don't "fix" those because the validator is just looking at a node
> without a power pole. Often their isn't a pole at that location according
> to the imagery.
>
> Sometimes proper fix for that report is to delete node placed where there
> is no pole.
>
> It's actually more complex. Often there are numerous poles that haven't
been identified but show on the image and the power lines can be many km
away from where I was mapping, in an area I'm not that familiar with.

Automated fixes need to be done with caution. Some are simple, for example,
zip codes on highway which are likely artifacts from an import. Since we
don't add postal codes on highways they can be deleted.

I was just trying to point out that JOSM has had automatic fixes built in
for some time where iD is just catching up.



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Re: [OSM-talk] mass iD validation arrives in NYC

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 10:53 AM Dave F via talk 
wrote:

> I notice these changesets were completed in 30/60 seconds respectively.
> I don't use iD. How is this possible? Does it have a JOSM like mass edit
> ability?
>
> Yes - JOSM does allow mass fixes through the validator. I've even seen
suggestions to fix objects on ways that are outside of the downloaded area.
For example, missing power poles on power lines. I don't "fix" those
because the validator is just looking at a node without a power pole. Often
their isn't a pole at that location according to the imagery.

Best,
Clifford

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[Talk-ca] MAPS.ME Changeset

[Clifford Snow]

A MAPS.ME user added 66 attractions [1] in a changeset that included
Vancouver, Montreal and Vermont. While I visit Vancouver I'm not familiar
with any of them. I left a changeset comment that has been replied to in
the last 16 hours. Another user suggested reverting them.

Can someone local check if this is a valid edit?

[1] https://osmcha.mapbox.com/changesets/70165015

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [OSM-talk] FCC public documents license and submarine cables mapping

[Clifford Snow]

François,
The US FCC should be public domain unless otherwise indicated.

Best,
Clifford

On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 7:48 AM François Lacombe 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Google is currently rolling out several submarine telecommunication cable
> systems and Amercian FCC actually publishes application documents
> describing them.
>
> Such one regards the Dunant system between Virginia Beach and
> Saint-Hilaire-de-Riez in France
> https://licensing.fcc.gov/myibfs/download.do?attachment_key=1650796
>
> As the application document shows maps of landings and global Atlantic
> Ocean route, I'm technically able to add it to OSM as several other
> submarine systems already exists there.
>
> Are you aware of license issues regarding FCC documents which would
> prevent us to take data from them?
>
> All the best
>
> François
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Re: [OSM-talk] iD influencing tagging

[Clifford Snow]

On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 5:44 AM John Whelan  wrote:

> I note that the matter has been raised in talk-de and mentioned in osm
> weekly.
>
> Tagging is not always easy, but I do have concerns when iD is so commonly
> used but the recommended tags do not align with OpenStreetMap I'll say
> normals.
>
> Specifically one of my concerns is a semi-detached house is not recognised
> in iD only the more general tag house.
>
> John - did you look at Github issue 2776 [1] that discussed
Semi-Detached?  I've never tagged a semi-detached house, but iD offers it
as a preset.

JOSM I think is much more open than iD but given the way OpenStreetMap
> functions I suspect ID is a much more closed environment.
>

Can you help me understand what you  mean by iD is a much more closed
environment? Are you saying because it is a browser based application it is
more closed or???  When I look at the number of people that have created
issues and the current pull requests it seems like a number of people are
involved.

>
> For example JOSM has the buildings_tool plugin, Africa has a large number
> of odd shaped buildings mapped in iD.
>

It seems to me that building shapes are more of a newbie issue  than editor
issue. I look at each new editor in my state. Squaring buildings is one of
the most common tips I give new mappers. Had they started out in JOSM, I
suspect I'd still be giving the same tip. Not because of the editor but
they wouldn't know to install and use the building tool.


> Thoughts ladies and gentlemen?
>

I believe iD has come a long way.  I'm using it more and more instead of
JOSM. I applaud the speed at which Bryan and others respond to issues and
have improved it. The original post on talk-de really seemed to be
complaining that the development staff is paid. Maybe what we should be
asking is "Should OSMF fund development of tools?"

[1]  https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2776

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Announcing our Interim Executive Director & Upcoming Election

[Clifford Snow]

Maggie,
Congratulations on stepping into the Executive Director role. Having a
person with actual OSM experience makes you a great choice. I'm sure
replacing you on the Board will be difficult but I'm hopeful we see some
good candidates step forward.

Jonah was somewhat vague on what you will be focusing on so I'm going to
jump in with some suggestions.

   - Apply for official chapter status with OSMF for OSM US
   - Establish a Communications Working Group to get our story out
   - Create infrastructure that would support hosting openstreetmap.us
   basemap, planet, and changesets

Please let me and the rest of the volunteer community know how we can help
you help us.

Best,
Clifford

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 6:40 AM Jonah Adkins  wrote:

> In 2018 the board was unable to spend much time working with and
> supporting the US mapping community because the majority of the board’s
> volunteer time was spent on a hiring process that unfortunately did not
> work out as planned. It became clear that the absence of an Executive
> Director was a step backwards for the organization, and that it would be
> best for someone to step into the role as soon as possible. We’re excited
> to announce that we have hired Maggie Cawley to serve as interim Executive
> Director. Please give her a warm welcome! [@MaggieMaps].
>
> Maggie brings fifteen years of professional geospatial experience,
> specializing in open source geospatial tools and education. Her passion for
> maps has taken her all over the world - leading field data collection
> efforts, training others in open source geospatial tools, or just spreading
> the word about OpenStreetMap. She has been a board member for the last two
> years and has also been a long time volunteer for TeachOSM, where she has
> worked to promote the integration of geography into classrooms through
> OpenStreetMap and supported teachers wanting to learn about OSM.
>
> Now, Maggie will be based in Baltimore working full time to support and
> grow OpenStreetMap US. For the remainder of the year, Maggie will be
> working with the community and the board to develop a strategic plan for
> the organization, including new programs and ideas for OpenStreetMap US.
> She will be connecting with the community as much as possible, developing
> ways to expand programming and membership, leading fundraising efforts, and
> supporting the board with day-to-day administrative responsibilities. We
> believe her passion for maps, professional experience, and dedication to
> the OpenStreetMap community will benefit OpenStreetMap US over the coming
> months and we hope you will reach out and help us welcome her into this new
> role.
>
> Election to Fill Vacant Seat
>
> As a result of taking on the interim ED role, Maggie is stepping down from
> her seat on the board and we will need to fill her shoes through an
> election. We urge you to nominate yourself or someone else to join the
> Board for the remainder of the year. As a board member, you will help plan
> for State of the Map US, be a part of the strategic planning process for
> the organization, and support the US mapping community.
>
> Questions? Join the #elections channel on OSM US Slack, tweet us, or email
> us anytime.
>
> Nomination Instructions
>
> Nominations will be open from today, March 25 until Sunday March 31. To
> nominate yourself, please go to the election wiki page, and add yourself to
> the list. You can also see more information about the schedule and updated
> timeline there.
>
> Election Details
>
> Monday April 1 and end Sunday April 7. This year based on popular request
> we’re excited to announce that we’ll be using Ranked Choice Voting. To be
> permitted to vote please make sure your OpenStreetMap US membership is in
> good standing by March 31. We should be able to announce the new board
> member on April 8.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Proposed mechanical edit - remove objects that are not existing according to source of GNIS import that added them

[Clifford Snow]

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 9:52 AM Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

> Good idea, independent check would be welcomed!
>
> Something from Seattle region would be OK, right?
>
> If my googling went right the you are probably interested
> in data around
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Glassman/history#map=8/47.780/-122.388
>
>
Seattle area is fine or Skagit County to the north. Seattle would give me
more nodes to review which is good.

Clifford
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Re: [Talk-us] Proposed mechanical edit - remove objects that are not existing according to source of GNIS import that added them

[Clifford Snow]

I'm in favor of the bot but I'd like to review a sample of the data being
removed in my area. The purpose is to test the assumption that the data is
of no use.

Best,
Clifford

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 9:32 AM Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

> Mar 21, 2019, 3:56 PM by m...@rtijn.org:
>
> Re-reading this I phrased this with more hyperbole than I intended, sorry.
>
> I see no problem here, after all lack of control over automated edit is
> how we ended
> in this situation.
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Re: [Talk-us] Online mappy hour

[Clifford Snow]

Thanks for clarifying the date - I can make the 28th 6PM PDT. Adding it to
my calendar.

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:20 AM Martijn van Exel  wrote:

>
> > On Mar 18, 2019, at 1:57 PM, Richard Welty 
> wrote:
> [..]
> > next thursday as in the 21st or the 28th? i'm going to be on my flight
> > to IETF on the 21st but back on the 28th if the airlines cooperate.
>
> Sorry, I meant the 28th.
>
> Martijn
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Michigan Forest Land

[Clifford Snow]

David,
Thanks for asking on the talk-us mailing list before importing the data.
Guidelines for importing data into OSM are available at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines. Please read the
guidelines before proceeding. Basically the guideline want to insure that
the data is licensed suitably for import into OSM, that the data is
suitable for OSM, how you plan to convert between the states tagging to OSM
tagging, conflating the data with what's already in OSM, and what account
you plan to use to upload the data. A quick look at the states site it
would appear that there is no license issue and the data seems suitable for
import. Especially the state parks and wildlife preserves.

The best editor I've found for this type of import is JOSM [1]. It sounds
like you may not be familiar with JOSM. You can get help at Learnosm.org
[2].

I would recommend getting started by doing some edits in JOSM before
tackling this project.

[1]. josm.openstreetmap.de
[2]. https://learnosm.org/en/josm/

Best,
Clifford


On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:57 AM David Martin  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm new to editing OSM, having been a heavy user of OSMAnd for Android for
> several years.  I primarily use the maps for snowmobiling here in Northern
> Michigan, and building my own database of gpx tracks.
>
> The Michigan maps are lacking the information for state forest land.  I
> have noted that the Upper Peninsula does have some state and national
> forest areas, but there is much missing here in the Lower Peninsula.
>
> I have found the data on the State of Michigan website, and have
> successfully downloaded the shapefile for all state forest land.
>
> I would like to proceed with adding this data to OSM, with the help of
> experienced editors.
>
> This is public data, available at
> http://gis-michigan.opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/dfe0bcec31184b57b9f0d96bc02d6548_1
>
> This is high-value data for all OSM users in Michigan, to understand when
> they are public land and help prevent trespassing onto private land.  I
> often have to switch over to Google Maps to see if I am on state land.
>
> Please advise as to how I may proceed.
>
> Thanks,
> David Martin
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Hello World!

[Clifford Snow]

Wesley,
Welcome to OSM. It nice to seem someone from a local GIS community
contribute. I don't know of other mappers in your area, I'm in the PNW, but
I can suggest looking at http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/oooc to see who
maps around the area. Besides this mailing list we also have an active
Slack community which you can join at https://slack.openstreetmap.us/. I
should also plug attending our annual conference. This year it is being
held in Minneapolis from Sep. 6-8th. You could hop on I35 and drive all the
way there.

ESRI does have an editor for OSM, but we don't see many edits using it. Two
of the most popular editors are iD, a browser based editor and JOSM a stand
alone editor written in java. iD does have a nice walk though feature to
help you get started. Both editors are access to all of our imagery.
Besides Bing, we have Digital Globe, Mapbox and ESRI. JOSM has the ability
to load shapefiles which can be used to trace features or copy/paste them
into the OSM layer. Note that we have guidelines that need to be followed
if you wish to import (copy/paste) a large number of items.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Best,
Clifford

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 8:12 PM Stormwater  wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
>
> My name is Wes Keller. I am the GIS Analyst for the City of Universal
> City. I would like to become active in the group and become a relied upon
> resource for information within Universal City’s Jurisdiction. If you are
> working in the San Antonio, Texas area please let me know so I can become
> acquainted with you. I would like to begin adding my content to Open Street
> Map. My preferred editing environment is ArcGIS Desktop. Any advice or
> assistance would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Wesley Keller
>
> GIS Analyst
>
> City of Universal City
>
>
>
> stormwa...@uctx.gov
>
> 210-659-0333 x722
>
>
>
> 2150 Universal City Blvd
>
> Universal City, TX 78148
>
> [image: CityLogoSmallJets]
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] gunnison national forest not being rendered

[Clifford Snow]

I'm not sure it's tagged correctly. boundary:type=protected_area, should be
boundary=protected_area. Although I do see boundary:type in use. See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dprotected_area

See https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1399218#map=9/47.9660/-121.5472
for a National Forest near me that renders or at least renders the borders.

I'm also looking at tagging of conservation areas. We have 15K protected
areas in the continental US. About 5K are missing the protect_class tag.
Although it might be that they shouldn't be a tagged as
boundary=protected_area. I hope to put together a Maproulette challenge to
work on fixing these.

Best,
Clifford

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 4:08 PM brad  wrote:

> Help me understand why Gunnison NF is not being rendered on the OSM map
> (nor on my mkgmap build).   Right next to it is San Isabel NF,  same tags &
> it shows up as do many other NF.
>
> Relation: Gunnison National Forest (5579230)
> Relation: San Isabel National Forest (396343)
>
> See attached screenshots
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Road name update challenges

[Clifford Snow]

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 5:27 AM Mike N  wrote:

> On 3/1/2019 12:49 PM, Clifford Snow wrote:
> >
> > One caution - when doing a building/address import a few years ago, we
> > discovered errors in the counties address database. They had different
> > street names from address street names. The street names matched the
> > street signs but the addresses had a different street name. These were
> > reported to the county
>
> Did you find that the addresses tended to be more correct in your
> case?   In the few cases I cross checked against a business mailing
> address, the address seemed to be correct.
>

Yes - the address are a good indicator of street name. They were found
using the JOSM mapcss paint style that colors by the street name.

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Re: [Talk-us] Road name update challenges

[Clifford Snow]

On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 7:09 AM Aaron Forsythe  wrote:

> These are all just my opinions, so don't take as fact.  I could be wrong.
>
>
>
> >> We were able to get a local GIS to release data to OSM.  In analyzing
>
> the data, I notice that address tags are much more carefully updated
>
> than road names.   So I could create a local project to correct some
>
> local roads based on corrections from the address data.   I hesitate
>
> because then those changes will be reverted when they don't match TIGER.
>

Having someone "fix" your edits using bad data is a problem. Two examples
come to mind, the first is when someone uses older imagery to align a road.
I've even done that to one of my own edits. The second is when a street
name is added from local knowledge that is different from TIGER. In both
cases, unless the editor is paying attention to the tags, they will likely
just change your edit. What I recommend is to watch edits in your area. I
recommend Simons's Who Did it.
https://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/ Use the RSS feed to watch
edits in your area.

>
>
> Usually, at least around here, addresses have the correct street names.
> Street signs are sometimes wrong, especially if it will save a few
> dollars.  Quite common for older street signs to leave out spaces in the
> name, leave off the Dr/St/Ave, or leave off East/West/North/South just to
> save money with a shorter sign.
>

One caution - when doing a building/address import a few years ago, we
discovered errors in the counties address database. They had different
street names from address street names. The street names matched the street
signs but the addresses had a different street name. These were reported to
the county


> It seems the whole issue stems from an automatic edit without proper
> integration.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct
>

I think it's bigger than just automatic edits. People are trying to improve
the map, but may be caught up by errors introduced from other systems.

FYI - here is my authority list, from best to worst. in numerical order.
1. Local, on the ground knowledge
2. City records
3. County records
4. State records.
99. TIGER

Best,
Clifford


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Re: [OSM-talk] Any suggestions on how to handle these errors?

[Clifford Snow]

I sent a message to the Costa Rica OSM Community. They are active on
Telegram. Maybe someone there could help.


On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 10:54 AM Jack Armstrong dan...@sprynet.com <
jacknst...@sprynet.com> wrote:

> While chasing down some OSM Inspector-tagged errors, I found this. Any
> suggestions on how to handle so many mapping mistakes? Simply revert the
> changesets giving someone else the chance at a fresh start at a later date?
>
> Of course, I could contact the creator, but it looks like this mapper
> created a few changesets and then lost interest months ago. My experience
> is that he/she would not be keen to clean it up.
>
> Opinions?
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?way=589091276#map=18/9.96056/-84.14977
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Forest Routes

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 9:50 AM Clifford Snow 
wrote:

>
> On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 9:44 AM Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>
>> It is worth noting that the current shape file available from USDA seems
>> to be more comprehensive than the forest service roads layer available:
>> https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/edw/datasets.php?dsetCategory=transportation
>>
>>
>> Perhaps the layer was created based on a filtered or older version of
>> this file. I don’t know who maintains it but it may be due for an update.
>>
>
> Martijn,
> I added the USFS roads as an overlay in JOSM sometime back. I'll compare
> it with
> https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/edw/datasets.php?dsetCategory=transportation
> and update the background if its more current.
>
> From a quick comparison between Nov 2018 and what's available in JOSM,
there is no discernible difference.  The JOSM version is using March 2018
data from the same source.


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Re: [Talk-us] Forest Routes

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 9:44 AM Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> It is worth noting that the current shape file available from USDA seems
> to be more comprehensive than the forest service roads layer available:
> https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/edw/datasets.php?dsetCategory=transportation
>
>
> Perhaps the layer was created based on a filtered or older version of this
> file. I don’t know who maintains it but it may be due for an update.
>

Martijn,
I added the USFS roads as an overlay in JOSM sometime back. I'll compare it
with
https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/edw/datasets.php?dsetCategory=transportation
and update the background if its more current.

BTW - around here they are called forest service roads, aka logging roads,
and believe me we have thousands of them.

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Re: [Talk-us] Strange city boundary: Lee, Illinois

[Clifford Snow]

Yes - a city can cover more than one county in the US. I'm not familiar
with your example, but we have Bothell, WA which is in both King and
Snohomish County.

Best,
Clifford

On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 5:47 AM  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> are there cities (admin level 8) in the USA which  part of two counties?
>
> see: https://wambachers-osm.website/images/osm/snaps_2018/lee.png
>
> left: Lee County
>
> right: DeKalb County
>
> there are some more, but i would like to know if that is ok. In Germany
> this is impossible.
>
> Regards
>
> walter/Germany
>
> --
> My projects:
>
> Admin Boundaries of the World 
> Missing Boundaries
> 
> Emergency Map 
> Postal Code Map (Germany only) 
> Fools (QA for zipcodes in Germany) 
> Postcode Boundaries of Germany
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] JOSM Scripts Plugin

[Clifford Snow]

Mike,
Thanks - I'll have to brush up on my javascript but that isn't a big
hurdle.

Clifford

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 8:21 PM Mike Thompson  wrote:

> Clifford,
>
> Hope these help:
> https://github.com/MikeTho16/JOSM-Scripts
>
> If not, let me know specifically what you are try to do and I can try to
> work up a more pertinent example.
>
> Mike
>
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 6:28 PM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm looking for some example scripts for the JSOM Scripts Plugin. The
>> goal is to fix capitalization problems. The github repository has some
>> example, but with my limited programing skills I'm hoping for something
>> more complete.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Clifford
>>
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[Talk-us] JOSM Scripts Plugin

[Clifford Snow]

I'm looking for some example scripts for the JSOM Scripts Plugin. The goal
is to fix capitalization problems. The github repository has some example,
but with my limited programing skills I'm hoping for something more
complete.

Thanks in advance,
Clifford

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[Talk-us] Looking for Mappers that are also RV or campers

[Clifford Snow]

We are looking for mappers that are active RV users, especially those that
have used Kampgrounds of America.

We are looking for help with an OSM article. Please contact me off line.

Thanks,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] TIGER place confusion

[Clifford Snow]

Thanks for the overpass query which really helps. As far as I'm concerned,
you can remove the tag.

Clifford

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 7:49 AM Max Erickson  wrote:

> Just comparing relations with place= tags to the corresponding nodes works:
>
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/CjI
>
> Obviously not an OSM place=city there.
>
>
> Max
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Re: [Talk-us] TIGER place confusion

[Clifford Snow]

Max,
Can you give an example or better yet a overpass query that we can use to
view some in our back yard?

Thanks,
Clifford

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 4:48 AM Max Erickson  wrote:

> Many of the administrative boundaries imported from TIGER have a
> place= tag that reflects the legal type of incorporation of the
> municipality rather than a sensible value for the OSM place tag (which
> would give some hint about the relative prominence of the place).
>
> This confusion has gone under the radar, as openstreetmap-carto
> doesn't render place labels from ways and relations:
>
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/2816
>
> Deleting the imported place= values (or perhaps moving them to some
> other tag, say something like incorporation=) would directly make the
> data more accurate and improve maps that render place areas without
> accounting for the confusion in the data.
>
> What do people think about deleting (or adjusting) the place tag from
> imported US administrative boundaries?
>
>
> Max
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Re: [Talk-us] USPS Post Boxes

[Clifford Snow]

First off, I don't have an opinion on the naming of blue boxes. I'm am
concerned about adding the wikipedia tags. One of the unintended
consequences of adding the wikipedia tag to fast food chains is that
nominatim puts those locations high in the search results. We removed most
of the wikipedia tags to Starbucks locations a few years back. The
consensus at that time was that the wikipedia tag only belonged on the
headquarters location and any store that had a unique wikipedia article.
(Only one did, the first)

My question is, should the wikipedia tag only be placed on their
headquarters locatIon?

Best,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Food delivery services: Move-fast-and-break-trust

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 1:24 PM Ian Dees  wrote:

> It'd be great to have smaller, shorter versions that could be handed out
> like business cards to handle this case in particular, where business
> owners are curious and law enforcement or other interested parties might
> express concern.
>

I picked business cards because people are familiar with them, they are
easy to carry and not that expensive.

Having information on both sides, which I don't do, would allow us to
include tips to help owners add info to OSM. Anyone want to take a stab at
creating one?

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Re: [Talk-us] Food delivery services: Move-fast-and-break-trust

[Clifford Snow]

When I'm out taking pictures for later entry into OSM, I bring a bunch of
business cards to hand out. The card has my name, phone number, email and
the OSM website. I do this because I'm hoping to get interested businesses
to add more data to OSM. But giving the staff a card might also lessen
their concerns. And it does help spread the word about OSM.

Clifford



On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 9:39 AM Jmapb  wrote:

> Hi USA, just wanted to bring up an issue that I've run into recently
> while mapping businesses in NYC.
>
> Whenever I'm walking through the city, I tend to whip out the phone and
> check for anything missing, incorrect, or incomplete. Often this means
> pausing in front of a restaurant and keying in contact info or opening
> hours. Sometimes I also take pictures with the intention of adding tags
> later.
>
> There have always been a few who treat this sort of thing with suspicion
> -- especially taking pictures. But a couple times lately I've met with
> outright hostility from restaurant staff when taking down their data.
> One owner complained he was sick of "people from websites posting his
> information." Turns out the culprits were food delivery services, who
> had been offering delivery from his place without authorization. I plead
> my innocence, but this guy was in no mood to appreciate the differences
> between a crowdsourced map project and a move-fast-and-break-things
> delivery startup.
>
> I discussed this with a friend of mine who owns a restaurant, and he
> recounted a similar story -- an angry customer calling the restaurant to
> complain about a late delivery. This restaurant doesn't do delivery, and
> has never partnered with any third parties for delivery. But a food
> delivery startup (I'm not naming names... actually I can't even keep
> them straight) apparently scouted their location, imported the menu
> (which changes often and is not posted on the web), and listed the
> restaurant as a delivery client -- all without even informing the
> restaurant, much less attempting to make any sort of agreement. They
> wouldn't even take down the listing when confronted -- figured they
> could just bully their way into a business relationship. And they were
> listing dishes that weren't even on the menu anymore! Though they took
> them all down quickly when the restaurant's lawyer called.
>
> Don't know how common these sort of predatory tactics are outside NYC,
> but fair warning, there may be businesses out there who are no longer
> delighted at the thought of someone "from the internet" taking notice of
> their publicly-posted information.
>
> Happy mapping, Jason
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018 at 12:01 PM Pine W  wrote:

> I'm interested in this subject. An issue is that the copyright might be
> owned by the government entity that created it, even if the records are
> open for the public. If something is public record in California, does that
> also mean that it's not copyrighted by the government entity that created
> it?
>
> Its my understanding that if the state government has an open data law
similar to the US, then when they release the data it's public domain.
There are exceptions. Sometime they license the data from a company without
have the rights to release it as PD. They also have exceptions for not
releasing data that has personal information. I sat through a talk by
WSDOT. One of the big issues they pressed was to be very careful be for
adding data to the state's open data portal. Once it's out in the open,
they can't get it back.


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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

Adam,
Thanks for adding Vermont.

At some point I'd like to do like you did with surfaces. One of the
problems I run into is that every agency seems to have a different list of
surfaces. We'd should probably try to create a conversion chart to map
different names into OSM surface types.

For example, USFS roads has the following surface types

 AC - ASPHALT

 AGG - CRUSHED AGGREGATE OR GRAVEL

 AGG - LIMESTONE

 AGG - SCORIA

 BST - BITUMINOUS SURFACE TREATMENT

 CSOIL - COMPACTED SOIL

 FSOIL - FROZEN SOIL

 IMP - IMPROVED NATIVE MATERIAL

 NATIVE MATERIAL

 NAT - NATIVE MATERIAL

 OTHER - OTHER

 PCC - PORTLAND CEMENT CONCRETE

 PIT - PIT RUN SHOT ROCK

 P - PAVED

 SOD - GRASS


>From Okanogan county in Washington they have

 D

 d

 null (which has the highest count)

 P

 G

The states metadata can help us build a conversion to OSM surface types;


Clifford




On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 7:49 AM Adam Franco  wrote:

> I've added Vermont's center-line
> <http://geodata.vermont.gov/datasets/VTrans::vt-road-centerline> info to
> the spreadsheet. As someone who does a lot of filtering of OSM roads based
> on surface, exposing surface info to a broader group of editors would be a
> fabulous win. Thanks for heading in this direction!
>
> To do my own surface entry I've resorted to side-by side JOSM and QGIS
> windows with the latter showing a color-coded road-centerline file. As can
> be imagined, most people won't go to this effort and hence US road-surface
> data in OSM is pretty patchy to say the least.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 11:32 PM, Elliott Plack 
> wrote:
>
>> Maryland’s Transportation Basemap is already availability in iD and JOSM
>> as an imagery source. We also have a slew of open datasets including
>> centerline and speed limits. I’ll take a look at the doc and add some.
>> http://data.imap.maryland.gov/datasets?q=transportation
>>
>> Kudos on getting this together!
>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 23:27 Paul Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Clifford Snow 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ian,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!
>>>>>
>>>>> I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a
>>>>> while ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
>>>>> free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.
>>>>>
>>>>> My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single,
>>>>> country-wide layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that
>>>>> path, if that's what you're thinking.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
>>>> background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
>>>> 2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
>>>> street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This could present a feedback loop in Oklahoma, since OklaDOT's portal
>>> can use (and in some datasets, does use by default) OSM.
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>>
>> --
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>> http://elliottplack.me
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

Elliott,
Thanks - I've added Maryland into the spreadsheet.

Clifford

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:32 PM Elliott Plack 
wrote:

> Maryland’s Transportation Basemap is already availability in iD and JOSM
> as an imagery source. We also have a slew of open datasets including
> centerline and speed limits. I’ll take a look at the doc and add some.
> http://data.imap.maryland.gov/datasets?q=transportation
>
> Kudos on getting this together!
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 23:27 Paul Johnson  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Clifford Snow 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ian,
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!
>>>>
>>>> I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a
>>>> while ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines
>>>>
>>>> I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
>>>> free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.
>>>>
>>>> My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single, country-wide
>>>> layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that path, if that's
>>>> what you're thinking.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
>>> background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
>>> 2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
>>> street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.
>>>
>>
>>
>> This could present a feedback loop in Oklahoma, since OklaDOT's portal
>> can use (and in some datasets, does use by default) OSM.
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
> --
> Elliott Plack
> http://elliottplack.me
>


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Re: [Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

Ian,


On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ian Dees  wrote:

> Thanks for putting this together, Clifford!
>
> I was collecting street centerline data as part of OpenAddresses a while
> ago here: https://github.com/openaddresses/centerlines
>
> I'm happy to add you to this repo if you want to use this repo or feel
> free to pull from this repo into your spreadsheet.
>
> My goal with this was to pull all this data into a single, country-wide
> layer to map in OSM with. I'm happy to help you down that path, if that's
> what you're thinking.
>
>
That is exactly my goal - get all of the states with open data into a
background image that people could use to trace from, much like your TIGER
2017 and previous years. My initial attempt will be just centerlines with
street names. Later we need to add surface and other details.

Clifford
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[Talk-us] State Open Data

[Clifford Snow]

A few months back I made available Washington State Roads background layer
available for use in JOSM and iD. (Shoutout to Mapbox for providing free
hosting of this service.) I would like to add other states but need your
help finding open data suitable for inclusion in OSM.

To help please update this Google Sheet document [1] with the Open Data
information. You'll need to give me your email to allow editing but anyone
should be able to view the information.


[1]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1exG4LchFlLCn8IAM1Sq1JGo8F6UPSnevksjpQ0Y7tTA/edit?usp=sharing


Thanks,
Clifford

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Re: [Talk-us] Sidewalks in Austin without any tags

[Clifford Snow]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 3:58 PM Andy Townsend  wrote:

>
>
>
> Do you (or does anyone else on this list) have a direct connection to
> the TaskarCenterAtUW account?  If so it'd be great to let them know that
> people have been trying to get in touch with them, and to get some
> information about the plans to add meaningful tags to the data that's
> been added already).  Obviously in-OSM contact methods exist but if
> someone reading this actually knows them they'd understand the context
> better.
>

I have contacts with the Taskar Center and will contact them. But I believe
Austin is running their own project, not under the direction of the Taskar
Center. I will verify it with them. It may take me a while to get an answer
so please let's not rush to remove anything.

>
> Unfortunately just "more data" is not necessarily an improvement -
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/603909001 is an example of something
> that as it currently stands really does add no value. However it's clear
> that the user who added that was aware that there was more to be done -
> they wrote "Will use JOSM to put in the appropriate tags".  It'd be good
> to know if or when they plan to do that, or whether some other approach
> (Maproulette?) might be approriate if they're no longer able to do so
> and need other people to tidy up after them.
>
>
>
I haven't looked at the data in Austin (I've been on the road and don't
have ready access to either time or internet.) So my question is are any of
the ways added not verifiable? Or is the problem that they are not fully
tagged? If the ways are accurate then I don't see a problem. If they are
adding garbage then they should be reverted.  As far as I know we don't
delete objects just because they are incomplete. If the way isn't routable
but is an actual sidewalk/footpath then it's a valid edit.

Best,
Clifford

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[Talk-ca] Bike Routes in BC

[Clifford Snow]

The US just completed three bike routes that end at the Canada/US border in
BC. The routes are USBR87, 95 and 97. Looking at WaymarkedTrails cycling
map[1], they routes don't extend into BC. Is anyone on this list involved
with mapping cycle routes, especially national routes?

I don't know if these routes actually connect to existing, but not mapped,
routes or if they just end. I know from going through the border crossing,
at least the Peace Arch Near White Rock and Blaine that people do ride
their bikes across the border.

[1] https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/#?map=11!49.0733!-122.442

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Re: [Talk-us] [Imports-us] Importing Addresses in Orange County North Carolina

[Clifford Snow]

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 2:50 PM Greg Morgan  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 2:34 PM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> A couple of things  First you have two tags that are not needed,
>> addr:state and  addr:country.
>>
> I have a different opinion on this subject. I always add these two tags.
> We are an international map. If he has the data already, I don't see why
> they shouldn't be added. My view is shaped by living in a border state.
>

Greg - I don't have strong feelings one way or another, but since this is
spatial data, it's easy to figure out the state and country. City not so
much,  Often it's a postal city code even though the location is in
unincorporated areas. But like you I do sometimes look at the tiger tags on
a way to see which county it's in.

Best,
Clifford


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Re: [Talk-us] Slack: Do we need an Alternative (was Planning an import, in Price George...)

[Clifford Snow]

Doug,
Like Martijn said, many of us are on multiple communications forums. I'm on
talk-us (and a bunch of others), IRC, Slack, Reddit and even on various
Meetup Groups. I used to be on Facebook, but just couldn't tolerate FB
attitude towards users privacy.

Slack is available on desktops as a standalone app. They have apps for
Windows, Mac and Linux. A smartphone isn't required.

Slack is to be attractive to a wide number of people. The US Chapter made
the right decision for the US community to adopt it. Slack is helping us
grow the community. That's good. Not everyone want to be on IRC, or Slack
or Mailing Lists, or etc. That's why we have so many choices.

Clifford



On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 2:22 PM Doug Hembry  wrote:

> I stand with Greg Morgan and Rihards on this one (and I think, Steve, if
> I remember rightly). I watch my email, and read the messages and digests
> from the talk lists. I'm old-fashioned and don't even use a smart phone
> or any social media (probably the only person in California who
> doesn't). I'd noted what seemed to be a drop-off in talk-us messages,
> and wondered where everyone had gone, but I'm not signing up for Slack
> or any other apps just to keep in touch. If the talk-us community is
> migrating to Slack, then I'll just get used to being out of the loop. A
> pity, but I don't have time to change my habits, and like some other
> correspondents I have a gut suspicion of for-profit corporations.
>
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[Talk-us] Slack: Do we need an Alternative (was Planning an import in Price George...)

[Clifford Snow]

SteveA wrote:

At least once, Clifford invited me to join Slack as well.  However, after
reading Slack's Terms of Service Agreement (a contract of adhesion,
really), I could not and do not abide with the ways which Slack (and other
proprietary, not-open-source/open-data communication platforms) divide our
community into "those who Slack" and "those who don't."  Even as Clifford
has acknowledged this issue in these posts, I feel compelled to speak up
about this again whenever I see this invitation to Slack again and again.

I don't wish to throw rocks at the good process and results which happen
because some of us collaborate on Slack.  I do wish to urge OSM volunteers
to seriously (re-?)consider that there are well-established, perfectly
useful communication methods (email, wiki, talk-us, face-to-face,
meetups/Mapping Parties...) which do not require "shiny apps laden with
hidden, commercial code" that ask us to cloak our communication into the
private realm of a for-profit company.  As an open-source/open-data
project, I remain puzzled why OSM volunteers do this.

Perhaps what I'm suggesting (again?  I seem to recall it has been brought
up before) is that if OSM uses a "live-collaboration communication app"
that we either develop our own or choose some open-source version of one
without onerous License Terms that MANY (not just me) find offensive.

Is that possible?

Thanks for reading.  I mean this in the best interests of OSM longer-term.

SteveA
California
OSM Volunteer since 2009

Steve,
I must admit I like Slack better than some other forms of communications.
For example, I don't participate on any OSM forums. IRC is nice, but the
Slack, as a version of IRC, is just better. Since Slack was introduced to
the community I've notice the talk-us mailing list traffic has slowed and
even more so is the #osm-us IRC channel which for all practical purposes is
dead.

Communications within the community is one of the most important aspects of
what makes our community thrive. We need tools that allow people to be
engaged in discussions and process to be successful. Tools that people want
to use. To me, seeing the number of people that use Slack compared to other
forms of communications, means the community has chosen.

I'm also part of a open source community that uses IRC and mailing lists to
communicate. When Slack was introduced, just like OSM, traffic drop to
nothing on IRC and mainly announcements on the mailing list. Part of that
maybe because people use Slack in their day job.

I don't wouldn't have any objections to another platform with more
agreeable terms of service. But what specifically to Slack's terms is
objectionable?

I'm also interested in how others feel about Slack. Is it good for the
community or should we look elsewhere?

Best,
Clifford
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Re: [Talk-us] Planning an Import in Prince George's County, Maryland

[Clifford Snow]

Gregory,
Any import should start with a review of the Import Guidelines [1] and
discussion with the local community, which you started with your email.
When you create the import page on the wiki, please describe which
attributes from the shapefile you plan to add to OSM and how they map to
OSM tags. We'll want to know how you plan to conflat existing data with the
new data. Ideally, any existing data will be merged with the new data.
Lastly, how will the data be imported. Are you planning on using a Tasking
Manager or a bulk upload (not recommended) to OSM?

If there are any mappers in the area, I would encourage you to contact them
and invite them to participate. An import can be a great way to build a
community.

If you haven't already joined our US Slack community, please sign up at
https://osmus-slack.herokuapp.com/. The community can help you with build
your import plan.

Best,
Clifford



[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 5:46 AM Mulea, Gregory 
wrote:

> I’m an Intern for the MNCPPC in Maryland and we are interested in
> uploading some of their GIS data into OSM.
>
> The data is open for all of the public to use.
>
> So far we plan on uploading data such as Buildings, POIs, and Parks.  Any
> other suggestions would most likely be available too.
>
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/M-NCPPC_Planning_Department is the
> initial OSM Wiki Page that I plan on updating as we develop our plan.
>
>
>
> Initially we would like to do a test import of a relatively small shp file
> (Libraries point file) in order to prepare the other and potentially much
> larger files.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] water taxi stops

[Clifford Snow]

Check out the Seattle to West Seattle water taxi.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/query?lat=47.60118=-122.33881

I believed it is mapped correctly. Basically map as any ferry route with a
amenity=ferry_terminal at both ends. Connect the ferry route to a
highway=footway, since a water taxi is usually just passengers. If bikes
are allowed, tag as appropriate.

Clifford

On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 3:53 PM Martyn Evans  wrote:

> Yesterday, during a mapping party following the OSM UK AGM,  a group of
> us encountered a Water Taxi stop apparently operated by
> https://www.manchesterwatertaxis.com
> This part of the service is relatively new, and runs a consistent
> timetable rather than a dial-a ride service.
> How should a stopping point on this service be tagged?
>
> cheers, Martyn (sobbomapper)
>
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