Re: User-unfriendliness
By default, the user is not allowed to run files with exe, pif, etc. extensions. But he has the right to modify that list in the Settings. Do you recommend a somewhat deeply buried option in the settings to allow bad certificates? Yes. Does not have to be deeply buried, should be in the Settings somewhere. If the certificate is bad, and the use of bad certificates are disabled, with a warning window point him where he can change that. Of course, by default, should not allow bad certificates. Also, even if the user enable the use of bad certificates, he should get a warning window about it at each connection to that server. To remind him what he's doing, plus kind of annoy him a little bit so he talks to the server's admin and force them to fix the errors. Maybe some people will not agree with it (warning window at each connection), but this way Ritlabs's reputation is not lost. You did everything you could, hands are clean, user was warned correctly about what he's doing. Vili Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: User-unfriendliness
By default, the user is not allowed to run files with exe, pif, etc. extensions. But he has the right to modify that list in the Settings. Do you recommend a somewhat deeply buried option in the settings to allow bad certificates? Yes. Does not have to be deeply buried, should be in the Settings somewhere.On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Adrian adr...@planetcoding.net wrote: It shouldn't be in the settings but a prompt when the connection is made. Simply prompt if one wants to accept the certificate or not. If you want a setting, just make one where you can choose the default action (only prompt/reject, not accept so people don't auto-accept all invalid certs). I let you guys discuss how it should be exactly implemented. I just want the user a.) have the possibility to make a responsible choice and b.) warn him a lot, so Ritlabs' keeps its reputation. Everything else is details for me, let you (tech guys with more in-depth knowledge than me) discuss and implement the best option :) Vili Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: User-unfriendliness
probably compromised) SSL servers. That's why our core users value us: the system administrators put The Bat! to their users and can sleep well. The users won't send a message to a compromised servers. This is the unique trait of The Bat! and we don't want to loose this niche. Before any word: we, who are against the current method, also want TB to be the best. Hey, I am making money from it, and believe me, I dont look for short-term solutions to quickly get customers, I need customers who are satisfied. Best advertisement, least support if no problem with the software, more income on the long run. After this pledge: TB is inconsistent on an area related to this topic. And that is to allow running attachments with certain extensions. By default, the user is not allowed to run files with exe, pif, etc. extensions. But he has the right to modify that list in the Settings. So, the user CAN compromise his system via the help of TB. This current topic is very similar, I think. Max: you will not lose that niche, if you do everything you can protect the user, but give them the CHOICE. I think, we all agree here at the list that the best solution would be this: if there is a problem with the certificate, then a big red warning window appears with the reason clearly stated. List the possible issues, but let the user decide. Say something about contact your administrator, your system may be compromised, BUT give the user the choice to be dumb and go ahead. Sometimes the small companies will not update their certificate, financial issues, and then TB is dead... You dont want that. This is my two eurocents, Vili Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: User-unfriendliness
Yeah, I don't want an email client that looks out for me, I want an email client that I can control. And to get back on topic, i would like my Mailclient to offer me the choose (to be intelligent) to accept a security risk for xyz days, months. Even if the Certificate is outdated. I agree with Thomas, i urgently need an Business Mailclient, which is able to act like i want em to act. It seems to me, that amongst the members of this discussion, people with business expertise DO want take the risk to use TB with an outdated certificate. Because we learnt that it does not matter what the intentions are, it is always the end product that matters. Time is money, baby. And time/patience is running out on TB at my clients... Harder and harder (to sell and) to explain why bugs exist, why IMAP does not work 100%, etc. Ritlabs should hire a real businessman, and dont let the programmers decide what to do and not to do. I dont mean it like offense, believe me. I would like to see TB to be on the top, with all my heart. But I believe, the business model of TB should change. Hopefully, it will change with v5 and a good IMAP implementation. Vili PS: Ritlabs: for me, for us, it is always easier to criticize. Always the first line takes the bullet, which is you. I know that. But if you want to build, be the best, you have to be critical to yourself. Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: User-unfriendliness
VŠ Bad cert is not The Bat!'s fault. And providing an option to bypass VŠ that, is a security risk as explained numerious times on this list. Right. So I'll lose the customer because TB! doesn't allow me to override the security issue. You must be quite unaware of business reality to say something like this. To tell you the truth: It needs to be *my* decision whether I accept an unsecure cert. Anything else will make me look for another email client, this nannying is just not acceptable. I totally agree with Thomas. TB is not user friendly when reporting errors, warnings. The error should be put into the face of the user, suggest him a solution and allow him to bypass this kind of certificate security issues if he wishes. I had customers who had the same error. Not fun to explain them that believe me, it is for your own good that you cant send emails. We can start an academic discussion about it. At the end what matters is the result. Can or cant I send an email. Everything else is just waste of time. You dont want to hear the details about all parts of your car, it should just run. Vili Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Test Play sound in filter
I wanted to set a WAV file to be played for a filter. So, I start to setup the filter (actually, changing it) and when I click on Test sound, it starts to play the WAV file but I dont have any way to stop it. I shoot myself in the leg as this is a 40 min phone recording, cant turn it off... (dont want to restart TB) Reproducible? -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re[2]: The Bat! 5.0.0.9 ALPHA - http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/tb5009.rar
Does the 5.0.0.x series have the new IMAP? I am getting quite fed up with losing sent emails after sending. yes, one of new major features will be new IMAP engine Planning, Will be... Shows us some hard evidence or dont even bother to talk about it yet. (Not you, but Ritlabs.) I do remember when Ritlabs kicked out Dieter Hummel because he asked for hard evidence and facts. Hope, I wont be kicked out for the same reason. Vili Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re[2]: Did I miss the funeral?
BTW I do not know, what You think about HTML support, what are You missing in version 4? A normal HTML viewer. I dont want to send examples. Ritlabs should install an Outlook and go over like a 1000 HTML mails. When TB matches up to Outlook for all of them, then the job done. Not until that. Vili Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: syncing contacts from address book
Is there any way to SYNC the address book with ANYTHING? 2 words: ldap addressbook 2 words: More details? :) Vili Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: syncing contacts from address book
Is there any way to SYNC the address book with ANYTHING? 2 words: ldap addressbook 2 words: More details? :) Run a LDAP server in your organization or at home (http://www.brennan.id.au/20-Shared_Address_Book_LDAP.html), or buy LDAP service from 3rd party. This was invented like 10 years ago. And I still cannot believe nobody heard of it. Do I see well that OpenLDAP is for Linux? I think that is a problem for most of us. Vili Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: [New feature] Missing attachment reminder
How many of you forget to add attachments to messages? :) What do you think of a new feature in The Bat! (similar to one of the Linux e-mail clients) which reminds you of the fact that you forgot to attach files if you had written certain words, such as attach, attached or attachment? Nice idea for the feature. But it should allowed to be disabled by user in config settings. Have a checkbox and an editbox: Checkbox: Remind to attach files if the following words exist in the text Editbox: attach (and the user can edit this box by mellekel, ubereinstellungshwefelsaurescluss, tourdefrance, niktoneotsustvuyet.. etc. depending on his language) Be sure, TB only checks the text the user entered, not the quoted text. -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.33.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
LDAP server
Is anybody an expert in using an LDAP server with TB? Vili Current beta is 4.2.35 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: launch time increasing more and more
with every new release of The Bat! time to launch this mailer is increasing. Something's going wrong here, to much overhead for obsolete features... I suggest to slim - according to upcoming seasons =:-} I suggest a good start: everybody can use max. 20 char in his signature. Otherwise it is like when people eat 3 hamburgers for lunch, but drink Diet Coke... Right? Vili - -- Regards, Peter | The Bat! 4.2.35 - multiple POP3 accounts | Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional | Version 5.00.2195 - Service Pack 4 | CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) Processor,1400MHz | RAM: 2048 MB -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Protect Privacy! iEUEAREDAAYFAkt0CDIACgkQaiLnSm7v+zt+OgCg8Y2eSyJvql0NUuIqhCbDsrBh 0NkAmNOgQaZQ2gM5U5sdxLH0B7Ff7dQ= =oCUB -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current beta is 4.2.35.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html Current beta is 4.2.35.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re[2]: 4.2.24.3
Awards to clients that don't present this dialog when the Internet connection or the server is down. Thank you very much! I cannot test it now (cant unplug my PC from net), but if no net or server down, does TB gives you a dialog? Should, for information purposes. Or at least lets make it configurable. User v1.0 needs info about everything, let them read. Vili, after finishing a deal on a 31-user prof license, and listening to v1.0 users :) Current beta is 4.2.24.3 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Edit as New?
It is not uncommon for me to want to re-send an old message, sometimes to the same people, sometime to new people, and sometimes with additional or updated information. While it is /possible/ to do this in TB by cutting the old message and pasting it into a new one, that loses the old addressee lists, which are tedious enough to enter now that the address drop-menu is gone from the To:, CC: and BCC: fields in the Edit Mail Message window. Copy the mail into your Outbox and edit. Vili Current beta is 4.2.13.3 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Respect (was: New MSI on Ritlabs site)
THESE ARE CUSTOMERS, not eggheads from this list! Thanks for the respect for the people here on the list, who are – by the way – mainly paying customers, too. I meant that simple users, using the computers for everyday communication, word processing, work, etc. Not like us, who know the programs in details, etc. Maybe my English, sorry for that. I consider everybody being an egghead on this list (including myself), meaning that we know hardware/software in much more details than the average. I did not use the words nerd, geek, etc, right? Diction: I am sure passionate. But how I could not be when customers go down in flames because of faulty software? How would you feel if you car would go down because the at a checkup the guy accidently put some water in the engine? This is what happens here, dont you realize? How could I be not high when TB is reaching an all time low?? IMAP, Exchange are barely functional, thought it is in the list of features... We are promised, promised and promised stuff. We get buggy software back. I cannot tolerate it. Period. I am not a soft spoken guy, sure, but I give my heart and soul to a purpose if that is worth for that... Are you satisfied with the discussion about Menu navigator when there are MUCH bigger issues??? -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.13.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: New MSI on Ritlabs site
He could try out the latest beta as well: http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/tb42131.rar beta or alpha ?!? Whatever it is, this is not how the issue should be handled :( -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.13.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Respect (was: New MSI on Ritlabs site)
And of course pay attention to your diction! :-/ Just one more thing: please watch an episode of Dirty jobs on the Discovery Channel. That is real life. That is how many people has to work to get a living. I did some of those jobs. I remember. So, I dont keep my mouth shut and be artificially polite because that can hurt somebody's oversensitive feelings... What I wrote in my previous email is true. I think, TB reached a critical step. There is no real quality control anymore. We cannot be polite anymore. We have to be straight... I am sorry if I curse sometimes, but I am frustrated by these problems... Current beta is 4.2.13.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 4.2.10.17
[+] Web-like search is now available in Message Finder Good to see this before fixing e.g.: 0007736: Broken import from MS Outlook 2007 - attachments are missing 0007734: Templates: Inserting/copying template throws exception 0007729: Sorting Office: Cannot open clipboard etc. I am sure this + will introduce new bugs. :( Cant we get at least some hope that relevant changes will follow?? I feel like somebody whose relative is missing: tell me that he's dead so I can get a closure. Tell us if TB development is dead, so we can move on... Vili Current beta is 4.2.10.17 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 4.2.10.17
[+] Web-like search is now available in Message Finder Good to see this before fixing e.g.: 0007734: Templates: Inserting/copying template throws exception seems Stef is listening and this one is fixed now too! Vili, dev is not dead ;-) Good to read it. Tell them that we need some kind of reassurance... :) -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.10.17 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Mea culpa, postponed sending
Finally I found two nice applications for this feature: a.) Every week another member give a presentation about his/her work progress. There is a list printed, but they used to complain that I forgot. Now they got a reminder 1 day before someone is due to give a lecture. No more complaint accepted. Talk to the hand :) b.) We have 8 week seasons where I play soccer. Every week it is a different time on a Friday night. Now I set up 8 mails to go out on Thursdays to remember the team when we play the next day. So, mea culpa, this feature can be used. -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.10.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
buggy QTs
Make a QT in HTML format, insert a picture. When you use the QT in a HTML mail, the pic is not inserted. Confirmations? -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.10.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Postponed Sending broken
Mine had been working in a similar manner. I scheduled 5 emails to go out at 8 am and 5 more at 2 pm sometimes 8 or 9 days in advance. I am really interested what you use it for specifically. Really, no offense (you know my view on this new tool), I would like to understand or even tell my users what is a good use (killer app) for the delayed sending. Vili Current beta is 4.2.10.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Customising of toolbar is faulty
Has anybody else being experiencing problems with customising the toolbars? I have now got some duplicate icons in the Standard toolbar and cannot remove them because in the customising editing window the offending icons are not shown at all. The whole program is broken as it is :( This is just one tiny part of it. We can spend time discussing moving icons, bs. I was laughing and cyring at the same time, that the world has reached this point, when I saw it on the Ritlabs site (actually, they show a link to another site, to be precise) about the use of delayed sending: Have you dashed off a quick e-mail, sent it, and immediately: (a)Realized that you left out something important, (b)Wished that you hadn't sent the message, or (c)Noticed a misspelled word as the application was closing the message and queueing it for delivery? The Bat comes to the rescue with a delayed send option and you get to choose the delay: 1 minute, 5 minutes, 23 minutes, 2 hours, 1 day. Whatever. It's your choice. - So think before you act, man... Or send another mail. Dumbness should be work on, not give you a tool to cover it. ...Write it in the evening and go to bed. Schedule the message to be sent at 2 am tomorrow, telling your boss how happy you are to be working on a big project even if you have to stay up late to finish it. OK, so maybe there are better uses for this, but I'm sure somebody will use it the way I've described. You do, of course, need to leave the computer on and The Bat must be running for this to work as intended... - Nice job. So let's lie, and consume power to do it, like we are not short already. So, when I think, 5 seconds after sending a message, that I intended to add a comment, I can just open the message and add the comment. This reduces the number of times that I have to send a message that begins with Oops. Sorry, but I meant to add this bit of information to my previous message. - Then dont send it for a minute, dumbass. Anybody saw the movie Idiocracy? Am I the only one who feels that TB's development has stopped a while ago? What happens now is only putting patches and painting on a slowly rotting water barrel... Please dont take it as an offense, but TB has to renew in thinking, have some clear directions, work on SIGNIFICANT issues. I am sad, and hard to answer to old customers sometimes :(( Frustrated... Ritlabs: give us a roadmap. -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.10.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: problems reading certain html messages with latest betas
The HTML engine, the MAPI engine and the IMAP engine are all broken, would need a complete overhaul. Not even worth reporting anything. Vili On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Dwight Corrindcor...@fastmail.fm wrote: I subscribe to certain (html) newsletters from www.slate.com Today I discovered that all I was seeing was the header, and that the body of the text did not appear in 4.2.10.5. I flagged 7 which didn't appear, then tried again in 4.2.10.4. Still not there. I went to look at my xp-pro desktop running 4.2.10.1, and the text appeared. I then upgraded there to 4.2.10.4, and the content disappeared therer as well. -- Dwight A. Corrin 316.303.9385 phone ahead to fax dcorrin at fastmail.fm photo galleries at http://dcorrin.smugmug.com photo blog at http://dcorrin.aminus3.com http://photos.vfxy.com/photoblogs/5882 Using IMAP with The Bat! 4.2.10.4 on Windows Vista version 6,0 (Service Pack 1) Current beta is 4.2.10.5 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.10.5 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Search windows
I have two search windows now that I cannot close. Start button is greyed out, Stop does not react Message/Exit does not work Right upper X click does not work I dont want to restart the program as it will load all of my Exchange mails again (bug in The Bat!, cannot really be used with Exchange) Any more idea? -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.9.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Feature Request Rewrite Subject
is there any chance to rewrite the Subject by a filter. During the time it is not implemented: - new filter - condition: any message - action: set memo. template: %Subject - ok Make the Memo field visible and you can edit that. Maybe you can make up a template that use the memo filed when reply... Vili Current beta is 4.2.9.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Feature Request Message-ID Link
is there any possibility to open a malformed Message-ID Link like: 200906281855.11598.lis...@domain.com maybe by marking/selecting and Kontext Menue open as Message-ID? How will TB know that it is not an email address, if it does not have a tag before it? Vili Current beta is 4.2.9.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 4.2.9.0
Did you try to run Charmap and select those fonts to ensure that they have Thai characters? I don't know what you talking about. Charmap? Start, Run, type in charmap and select the font to check that Thai characters shows up using that font. Vili Current beta is 4.2.9.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
New install, restoring (old) backup, problem with sending mail
It is the second case I observed it at a user, it seems to be reproducible: - v4.0: make a backup - remove v4.0 - install v4.1 or v4.2 - restore the backup - send some mails, everything looks ok - restart TB - sent mails after the restore are NOT in the Sent mail folder - compose a mail, try to send it from the mal composing screen immediately - error: Cannot export mail - close the mail composing screen (put the letter in the Outbox) - go to the Main screen. The mail is in the Outbox, so send it from the main screen. It works, and after it you can even send mails from the mail composing window, TB is cured. What bothers me is that users lose mails... It mus be connected somehow to the new index file, I guess. I will test it further. Please confirm it. PS: Is it normal that I made a support ticket into the official Ritlabs support system (about MAPI) and after 4 days of internal ping-pong (you do it, no, you do it) still no answer? What is your experience, if any? I try to help my users immediately or max 1 day. Am I overzealous? -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.7.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: New install, restoring (old) backup, problem with sending mail
It is the second case I observed it at a user, it seems to be reproducible: - v4.0: make a backup - remove v4.0 - install v4.1 or v4.2 - restore the backup TBK format in 4.1 and 4.0 is not same, it is needed to restore TBK in older version and then upgrade to 4.1 or older. You should be prompted about this. I dont remember a prompt. Maybe it said something but allowed the restore. Answers... as a programmer: come on. Dont allow it then! Dont just use a prompt. as a distributor: Another thing that should be fixed before delayed sending, etc. implemented. Vili Current beta is 4.2.7.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
MAPI, Exchange, Bat sux
I figured out that if I uncheck the Cached Exchange mode from the profile I am using with TB, it downloads the emails. All of it again. I dont want to delete them from the server, sometimes I need online acces to them. Ok, it downloads all (or actually not all of them, strange), I delete the dupes and work with it. It seems to be ok. I quit from TB, restart it, download mails, and AGAIN it download all (or nearly all). How can I stop this charade? Should not it know from somewhere that it downloaded a mail or not? -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.7.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: MAPI, Exchange
The Bat! has little control over MAPI since it uses high-level API of Exchange by calling various DLL calls. This API does everything by itself, and leaves almost no control for The Bat! This is my problem: it worked ok before. I started Outlook, used the Calendar, after it TB does not work if I use Cached transfer mode in the profile, and downloads all mails if I uncheck that box. This was observed at some of my users as well. Sometimes, suddenly, TB changed in regard how it handled Exchange. But I could not tell them anything as neither I nor them could connect it to some change in their or my system. My point here is that no DLL has changed. I checked my System32 dir and the DLL is the one that should be there and what I had for a while. Restarted my PC, no change. So, it seems to be impossible to work with Exchange anymore... It is easy for you to test: setup to use TB with MAPI. Then quit, start Outlook. Quit Outlook. Start TB. It does not work anymore like it did before. You can check the exact communication between TB and the API and figure out the problem here. Sooner or later somebody at TBBETA and your users will have this problem. It is a timebomb bug. Vili Current beta is 4.2.7.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
MAPI, need help
Sorry to write to here, but I would need urgent help and cannot access my other email for 2 days that is signed up for the TBUDL list. After running Outlook once, TB seems to connect ok to the Exchange server, but not really. When it worked, the log said: When mail came: 7/3/2009, 12:24:02: FETCH - receiving mail messages 7/3/2009, 12:24:02: FETCH - connected to the Exchange server ABC as user DEF 7/3/2009, 12:24:02: FETCH - processing 2 folder(s) 7/3/2009, 12:24:04: FILTER - received message from 1...@1.hu (626 bytes), URL: msgid: etc... 7/3/2009, 12:24:33: FETCH - connection finished - 1 message received When no mail arrived: 7/3/2009, 12:41:29: FETCH - receiving mail messages 7/3/2009, 12:41:29: FETCH - connected to the Exchange server EXCHANGET as user kerteszv 7/3/2009, 12:41:29: FETCH - processing 2 folder(s) 7/3/2009, 12:41:31: FETCH - connection finished - 0 messages received Now, that it does not work (I know that I got emails): 7/3/2009, 13:30:35: FETCH - receiving mail messages 7/3/2009, 13:30:36: FETCH - connected to the Exchange server EXCHANGET as user kerteszv 7/3/2009, 13:30:36: FETCH - processing 1 folder(s) 7/3/2009, 13:30:36: FETCH - connection finished - 0 messages received The mapi32.dll in the windows/system32 dir did not change. I need some urgent help. I have an email client that cannot download emails. I think, something has changed in my XP system after I started outlook that affected TB, but what is it? -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
MAPI, Exchange
After running Outlook, TB seems to connect ok to the Exchange server, but not really. The log says 7/3/2009, 13:31:31: SEND - sending mail message(s) - 1 message(s) in queue 7/3/2009, 13:31:31: SEND - connected to the Exchange server ABC as user DEF 7/3/2009, 13:31:32: SEND - message to x...@macasoft.hu sent (690 bytes) 7/3/2009, 13:31:32: SEND - connection finished - 1 message(s) sent 7/3/2009, 13:47:27: FETCH - receiving mail messages 7/3/2009, 13:47:27: FETCH - connected to the Exchange server ABC as user DEF 7/3/2009, 13:47:27: FETCH - processing 1 folder(s) 7/3/2009, 13:47:28: FETCH - connection finished - 0 messages received 7/3/2009, 13:47:29: FETCH - receiving mail messages 7/3/2009, 13:47:29: FETCH - connected to the Exchange server ABC as user DEF 7/3/2009, 13:47:29: FETCH - processing 1 folder(s) 7/3/2009, 13:47:30: FETCH - connection finished - 0 messages received so, it seems to be ok, but neither the message was sent (however, it is in the Sent folder), nor new messages can be downloaded (I have a server side forward setup for month, so I know that the email I sent to my Exchange account has arrived. It is somethimg to fix. -- Vili Current beta is 4.2.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Again IMAP Support (was: The Bat! 4.2 release)
I think I spotted a bug in TB! 4.2.4. When I tried to get Help on changing View Modes (Options - Preferences - Message List - View Modes Select View Mode - Edit) and clicked the Help button, I got this: Missing context help topic 11026. Confirmed. I got the same error when I followed the steps After re-examining the problem I came to the preliminary conclusion that the probable cause of this bug is a not quite uptodate help file (It says: What's new in version 3). Perhaps it is a good idea for Ritlabs to rewrite the help file and actualize it for version 4.x.x.x? Great suggestion. Question - does this need to go into a bug track report? If so, glad to support it. I dont know if you have to say anything. They know I think that the help is old. BBP. Vili Current beta is 4.2.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
IMAP
I hope, I dont offend anybody. I hope, Ritlabs are reading it too. Just went thru some mails and I hope I can rationalize why Ritlabs should work on IMAP. I dont know how much extra resources, development money you got in Chisinau. If you have plenty, stop reading, and spend time as you wish. If you do need to earn money from The Bat! sales, read on. Email chat, postponed messaging, view modes... They dont sell The Bat!. The Bat! sales are due for excellent filtering (it seems that we have problems with this too, now, I am not sure), multiple email handling, spell checking in multiple languages, templates!, mass mailing, inventive ideas and sometimes working with Exchange. The question in my profession is always this: what is the next big thing? And do that. What is the next big thing for an email client? If I am hearing right, a reliable, correct IMAP support with the filtering, etc. of The Bat! would be a big hit. Why? Nu such thing exists yet. So, if Ritlabs would spend time to do this, that would be unique. Yeah, postponing is unique I guess, but who gives a sh.t. Quote from actual users. They dont use it. So, the question Ritlabs has to decide: be it a pet project, do what you think is good and needed, or be a corporate project where you satisfy the market. I used to see this and that sometimes, nowadays it all looks like a pet project to me. No offense. I try to help as Dieter Hummel tried to help you guys back in 2001 and 2002. He gave up, I try not to. There is still hope. I think, some of the guys on this BETA list work hard for you RITLABS, so they ... (I cant remember the right word here..., you earned to be answered to) a straighforward answer from you guys. We are f..king tired to read always that after this, after that we will do this. And those things will never happen. You lose trust and respect. You lose the good guys and sonner or later all you will have after a beta release is some up and running beta testers. (No offense.) -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.14.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Sorting Office Problem/Suggestion
[At least] One of my filters has apparently stopped working. Sadly, it is the one that deletes all of the messages that SpamAssassin has tagged as SPAM, so its failure is having a quite noticeable effect on my mail volume. I have the condition as: Header field X-Spam-Status contains Yes OR Subject contains :SPAM: And yet I still receive hundreds of messages that meet one or both of those conditions. Since it is /possibly/ (though highly unlikely) that an earlier filter is grabbing them, I looked at the log to check, but alas, the log only has the past few hours and shows none of the messages I was looking for. I wanted to increase the log size, or have it written to disk, but I cannot find any log control settings in the preferences dialog. Account, Properties. Anyway: right click on the mail and Test filters. Vili Current beta is 4.1.14.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The Bat! release date
We are going to release The Bat! on 8th June 2009. With major email client problems like: Not being able to forward a mail --- Problems with HTML mail and with forwarding https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5235 No updated help: Help system is not updated after Client/Server mode was stopped supported https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5952 Not being able to send mails (connect to an SMTP server): Bug in Account, Properties, Transport, SMTP, Authentication... window https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5656 same as https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=7523 Believe me, it's harder and harder to keep up the reputation of TB, and sell it. The only thing I learned works, also in hard financial times, is excellent work and results. If you dont provide them, you are done. I am wondering sometimes why you waste energy on irrelevant things. (Lets face, working on postponing mails is that. It would have had implications when we payed for dialup and it would have saved cost by sending large mails overnight.) I am a Bat fan, believe me, but I am a scientist too, and development of TB seems to be too illogical and chaotic for me. Spend a month or two on fixing bugs only, and forget about new stuff. That's the only way out of this chaos. Believe me, I hate to fix bugs, especially in somebody else's code, but it just needs time. Vili Current beta is 4.1.14.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Spell checking
A user reported that if Office is installed, the CSAPI engine has priority over the Hunspell directories. The Hunspell works fine if Office is not installed. Confirmation? -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.14.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Wish: Note area on the main screen
I think, it would be really useful to either have SmartBat or the Scheduler or just a TMemo field be permanently displayed on the main screen. I think a good place would be under the account tree. Why: I dont know how you are, but I dont forget something if it is in an email. I check that several times a day, mark the TODO with red color. Yes, I could use a reminder, etc. Believe me, I tried. But something that is always in front of me would be really advantageous. Kind of like a StickyNote place... Maybe just a simple TMemo component is ok. I never saw it in other email programs, maybe there is a reason, I dont know. -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.20 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Language file, should be fixed ASAP
If a user upgrades TB or Voyager, TB replaces the thebat.lng/voyager.lng file. Should not or it should ask if the user wants it. The reason is that we have our own English/Hungarian lng file (600 kB) and it is always overwritten by the huge lng file that comes with TB, so users lose their language settings in TB. -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.18 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 4.1.11.17 Attachment Numbers
Somebody seemed to try a trick, to not show the HTML Attachments, but he did not exactly think about it... Error by confusion. +1 HTML attachments should be indicated, even more if they are actually shown in attachment pane. – It’s a real old story … An HTML attachment should ONLY counted when it is not called message.htm or message.html. Vili PS: I dont get us. Wasting time on it... :-) Current beta is 4.1.11.17 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Number of attachments
Common sense. Which is less and less currently. If a client can download email, useful. If a client has a bug in the SMTP auth window, useless. Check it: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=7523 This IS a real problem, people cannot send mails if they dont know the workaround. It would be USEFUL if this problem would be fixed instead of cosmetic changes. Of course real problems have priority - but cosmetic bugs have to be solved as well. Do you buy a software which is ugly because of a bad and buggy layout? Dont forget, this new stuff was introduced BEFORE bugs were solved. Caused only troubles, needs to spend more energy on solving problems that would not have been. I am pretty sure that Max and the guys work hard, because life in Moldova is not as easy as in the US, Germany, and not even like in Hungary. They have families, kids to support, and life outside of TB. As all of us (I hope). That is why I am suprised: they should manage their energy MUCH better. Working on the IMPORTANT things. I will get a lot of angry emails, but let me be honest and share my view working with software companies from all over the world: programmers east from and including Austria are very good. Until and including Russia. Programming is like art for them. They are artists. German, English and US programmers are not that good as them (they still good, but they are not that enthuastic, that is just a job for them). But making a software is not just coding it. It includes management of it, as well. And here the table turns: Hungary is kind of in the middle in it. We listen, fix the bugs, but manuals... eh... Many times missing. East from us it is terrible: like artists, they forget about manuals, dont fix bugs, dont answer to customers, etc. West from us, including US: professional customer care. Even the smallest, one member company, even if it does not show you a phone number on ther websit answers you in 1 day, answer all your questions in details, give you the full package, detailes manuals and so. Summary: I like to business with Austria best :) They never failed me. Ok, exceptions can be found everywhere. Anyway, this is my two cents. I just wish if Ritlabs would be as professional as it software was, and kind of still is, in their management. -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Number of attachments
- … and/or remove the icon in the background of the number. IMO that icon is needless, because the number itself is an indicator for an attachment. Or show the Icon for ONE Attachment and Numbers if they are more than one. I think, this is a totally useless new source of problems (bugs). I did not quite follow the thread, but I dont see why showing the number of attach is useful. Next will be number of words, statistics on of letters used? Come on, solve the real issues and leave the cosmetic changes. Dont even touch them for a half a year. These kind of stuff will not bring revenue, nor rebuild the respect of TB. There are MANY bugs that affect the use of TB, this is just another gadget and Ritlabs and the beta testers waste energy/time/money on it... Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Number of attachments
V I think, this is a totally useless new source of problems (bugs)... V Come on, solve the real issues and leave the cosmetic changes. Dont V even touch them for a half a year. These kind of stuff will not V bring revenue, nor rebuild the respect of TB. There are MANY bugs V that affect the use of TB, this is just another gadget and Ritlabs V and the beta testers waste energy/time/money on it... I agree with you absolutely on this issue. Thank you for pointing it out. :) It was an easy addition and while I wouldn't have asked for it, I am finding it useful. It's the kind of cosmetic improvement that can make the Bat more saleable. What is useful in it? How often you use it to gather some extra information by knowing the number of attachments? Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Number of attachments
I think, this is a totally useless new source of problems (bugs). I did not quite follow the thread, but I dont see why showing the number of attach is useful. Next will be number of words, statistics on of letters used? Come on, solve the real issues and leave the cosmetic changes. Dont even touch them for a half a year. These kind of stuff will not bring revenue, nor rebuild the respect of TB. There are MANY bugs that affect the use of TB, this is just another gadget and Ritlabs and the beta testers waste energy/time/money on it... Hmm - there is *always* and *still* an other bug to fix... Then it's time to start fixing them... Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Stop adding, start fixing
Subject says all. Time to start fixing bugs. Ritlabs please stop adding new features. Make an inventory of the bugs (go thru BT) and start fixing the bugs one by one. -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.7 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Maximum number/age of messages in a folder
If it is WAD, I suggest to have a Delete unread mails too checkbox there. Confirmations, support? I did not test it, but i will, as soon time permits. And if it works as described, I support the delete all, even unread Messages. It works that way. -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Maximum number/age of messages in a folder
If it is WAD, I suggest to have a Delete unread mails too checkbox there. Confirmations, support? I did not test it, but i will, as soon time permits. And if it works as described, I support the delete all, even unread Messages. https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=7513 Current beta is 4.1.11.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Maximum number/age of messages in a folder
KV I think, there is a bug when you set the Maximum number/age of KV messages in a folder. I mean, for me it is a bug, not a WAD, or if it KV is WAD, it has to be changed. KV So, the mail has to be read in order to remove it. If you set 100/100 KV for number and age, and you have e.g. 200 unread messages in that KV folder, none of them will be removed. If the mails are read, it works. KV For me, if I specify 100/100, I dont want the read flag to be KV accounted as a factor in the decision if a mail has to be deleted, or KV not. KV If it is WAD, I suggest to have a Delete unread mails too checkbox KV there. KV Confirmations, support? As far as I know on most of my accounts in the Bat! even the unread messages are removed. But in order for that to happen, you need to go properties of the accountMail ManagementDeletion and check 'Purge Unread Messages'. It works for me, though I haven't tested in the latest version, it always has in the past. Ah... Thanks. You are right. I clode the bug report. Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Print an attached image
If I open an attached image, I can see it. I press Ctrl+P, and the text of the mail is printed. I think, the correct behaviour would be that hitting Ctrl+P in the image viewer would cause the image to be printed. -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: News: Thunderbird IMAP
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 2:09 AM, Robert Tomanek tbb...@mail.robert.tomanek.org wrote: ... The problem is it doesn't say WHAT exactly is going to be fixed (like whether it's only going to be minor bugs with message counters, or more major ones with message list not refreshing, or compatibility improvements with specific servers or implementing new IMAP features like keywords or something really revolutionary that would make TB! the greatest IMAP client ever). I would side with Stefan on this, rewrite from scratch, if possible, and if Ritlabs has the resources. The best working IMAP client was/is Mulberry. Not many features, but solid. The reason is because the developer was a physicist. And as a physicist, he followed the rules, sealed the holes, right from the first line of code. If Ritlabs would do this, plus their filtering system, that would be a killer app. But dont think, this is an easy job. Let me quote from the Mulberry site, just to see newcomers a view of business, where even the best ideas can fail: Summary Mulberry started off life as a software project that was really meant to help the author learn more about the internet and internet protocols used for email. However, it became much more than that and garnered support from a small (in internet terms) group of users and institutions many of whom relied on the product as their primary email tool. Whilst it started as only an IMAP client and only on Mac OS, it has grown to cover not only other email protocols, but also calendaring and scheduling and is available on Mac OS X, Windows and Linux systems. Adherence to standards is a key belief on the part of the developers, and active participation in the Internet Engineering Task Force and the standards process is an important aspect. Ultimately the failure of the original company (for a whole host of reasons) was really a reflection of the fact that Mulberry had failed to grow a market share that could sustain the company in a market where free clients (of varying quality) are readily available. from http://www.mulberrymail.com/about.shtml See the cinical note: free clients (of varying quality)? Unfortunately, today it is not about quality anymore, but more like quantity. I believe, Ritlabs can balance quantity (they have to sell for the public) with quality. In an ideal world, this would be an easy choice to make, but this is not an ideal world now. -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: News: Thunderbird IMAP
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 7:24 AM, MAU m...@rancho-k.com wrote: Hello Robert, Thanks. However, next time include the full quote: Pardon me? It is the full quote, signature included, of the message I identified with MID. See it attached if you don't trust me. Plus a second one I just found. Thanks MAU, I remembered this mail too. There _was_ a note to rewrite from (almost) scratch. -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: News: Thunderbird IMAP
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 1:17 PM, Jens Franik je...@gmx.de wrote: Samstag, 28. Februar 2009 at 18:10, Kertész Vilmos wrote: IMAP in thunderbird 3 beta made several improvements. I can not see if it is getting better or different. And why do we read it here? Why do you ask for something you might know already? If I would have known already, I would not have sent that email. Ok, i wanted to point out, that the other Applications are developed more and more in the IMAP Area, where The Bat! used to be a kind of choice - if The Bat! looses Users which do not want to wait no longer, that would be not a good business. And the rest of what i think, i will not repeat again and again. Everybody can think himself. I do understand this, but then please be more careful with your words. My problem was that you mentioned improvement and then you say that I can not see if it is getting better or different. So, + in your first sentence and - in your second one. It was confusing. I am not an English major myself :), so it is not a criticism, just a note. -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: News: Thunderbird IMAP
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Christian Grams i...@grams-it.com wrote: You miss the point: Ritlabs does not seem to care that paying customers are leaving for better Emails Clients that have working IMAP. Better IMAP has been promissed for as long as i can thinkand remember. BTW: this is written via Thunderbird with working IMAP! regards Christian Samstag, 28. Februar 2009 at 18:10, Kertész Vilmos wrote: Ok, i wanted to point out, that the other Applications are developed ... No, I did not write that, a.) my English is better than that :), though b.) I agree with the statement Jens made here about losing users. If a new client would like to buy TB from me and use for IMAP, I dont advise him to do it. I dont want to hassle him in the near future. POP, no problem. IMAP, red light. Christian, please fix your email client or manually correct its errors or you will see this in future emails: Christian wrote: Yesterday I had a hamburger for dinner with some cheap red wine from England. (Joking of course :) I just saw the movie 2 days in Paris, the lunch scene is hillarious :) -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.6 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Forwarding an HTML mail with added text is faulty
It happenned many times, but I was lazy until now: 1. I got an HTML mail. 2. I open it for forwarding, using the MicroEd editor in text mode. I add some text to the TEXT part of the mail. 3. Sending the mail. The other party who uses Outlook does not see my comments, as she only see the HTML part of the mail. Is it normal behaviour, or I should not add text to the text part, or what? -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Forwarding an HTML mail with added text is faulty
Hi Thomas, V It happenned many times, but I was lazy until now: V 1. I got an HTML mail. V 2. I open it for forwarding, using the MicroEd editor in text mode. I V add some text to the TEXT part of the mail. V 3. Sending the mail. V The other party who uses Outlook does not see my comments, as she only V see the HTML part of the mail. V Is it normal behaviour, or I should not add text to the text part, or what? It is normal in the sense that it happens to me all the time. The workaround is to delete the message.html file from the attachments. Yes, that's what I used to do, but it is a workaround :( The recipient will now see the message with your comments. Don't worry, even if you use the HTML editor, your full HTML message will still be intact. You are deleting only the incoming HTML message. I don't know whether it's a fault in TB! or Outlook. Anyway, if there is a message.html attachment, Outlook will open only that one and not your message (text or HTML). And TB! attaches the incoming message as message.html, so that's why they don't see your comments. It is TB's fault and should be addressed somehow, as we dont talk about a nonworking flag or message counter, a blurred icon, but something that affects the CORRECT emailing itself. The test I did: I forwarded a commented HTML message to another email address of mine. In my Sent folder, when I open the mail, I CAN see the comment. When I download the mail to my other email account (in TB), THERE IS NO TRACE of the comment in the source of the email. I am not saying that this is an easy problem to solve, but it should be addressed ASAP as clearly TB has a bug that affects the core of the program, namely that it can be used for emailing. Result: loss of confidence in TB. -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Unusable sorting office in 4.1.11.2
PH - TB as a professional system *MUST* be able to handle any number of conditions PH and any nesting levels. PH - even the greatest Luser must not be able to make TB crash or behave in an PH unexpected manner. Fully agree. If a program allow a user to something, it should be able to handle it. TB is like a table that is full of the best foods on the world = Sensational ideas, bright thinking, brilliant inventions. However, there is just a small piece of crap in the corner of the table = Annoying bugs. Whose got appetite? -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re[2]: Forwarding an HTML mail with added text is faulty
V The test I did: I forwarded a commented HTML message to another email V address of mine. In my Sent folder, when I open the mail, I CAN see V the comment. When I download the mail to my other email account (in TB), THERE V IS NO TRACE of the comment in the source of the email. ... I tested this with my version of Voyager and several clients and it seems to be a M$ problem. Since my customers do not use M$ email clients the problem never arises for me. My environment was: - sending from a TB account with Exchange protocol - receiving to a TB account with a GMail address I will test it with simple POP accounts and see if I can reproduce it. Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Memory leak?
So, as I wrote earlier, my VM runs up when reply to a mail. I managed to track down to the Reply template. So, if my reply template is empty, %BLANK, replying a mail will not really increase the VM size. BUT: if I have a simple %QUOTES %CURSOR Vili reply template, then replying to a 3-line mail increases my VM to like 65 MB. If I reply to a longer one (6 lines), it is 69 MB. AND, it never goes back to the original 3x MB. It just increases and increases... Confirmation, idea to fix? Maybe some component they make up runtime is not destroyed/freed when they close the editor window? -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Issue in the Message list
You should try to change font in message list pane, current font probably can not display them You were right, I think, that was the problem. The mails with the strange boxes used some Korean charset. I tried to change the font of the message list in my v4.0.28, I could not find it. On the Color group page I did not find the option how to modify the font itself. Where was it moved? Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Issue in the Message list
I tried to change the font of the message list in my v4.0.28, I could not find it. On the Color group page I did not find the option how to modify the font itself. Where was it moved? try Message list section Ahhh I looked at it like 100 times, still missed it. Thanks, Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Issue in the Message list
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Rick rick.grunwald.groupm...@gmail.com wrote: I just had a first in the message list. One person sent several messages to a Yahoo group. In the message list the FROM name was formed correctly on some and was a series of boxes on others They were all sent at the same tim Please see the attached png After hacking into your PC and opening the raw messages on your PC, I see that he used different charsets. Is that right? -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Issue in the Message list
I just had a first in the message list. One person sent several messages to a Yahoo group. In the message list the FROM name was formed correctly on some and was a series of boxes on others They were all sent at the same tim Please see the attached png After hacking into your PC and opening the raw messages on your PC, I see that he used different charsets. Is that right? Should I even answer the sarcasm? The change of character set was in the subject line of all places. I was hoping one of the developers would want to take a look. Sorry, I wanted to joke, not to be sarcastic. I wanted to scare you :) Anyway: The change of character set was in the subject line of all places. What does it mean? -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Issue in the Message list
Sorry, I wanted to joke, not to be sarcastic. I wanted to scare you :) Sorry I was grumpy. :) No problem. Anyway: The change of character set was in the subject line of all places. What does it mean? This came through a Yahoo group. In the header the subject appears: Subject: -:CTS:- =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Novo_Kit_-_Valentine=B4s_Day_-_Blog_Train?= It appears in the message: -:CTS:- Novo Kit - Valentine´s Day - Blog Train This is in a message where the FROM name appears CORRECTLY Select like 2 messages with the name correctly shown and 2 messages where the name shows up with blocks. Export them as Unix mailbox, send to me in a private mail and I send you the answer. Vili Current beta is 4.1.11.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: TB doesn't print a second message:
Enable: Options - Preferences - General - Close the separate viewer parent window when replying/forwarding Close TB Start TB again Open a message by double clicking Print the message via: Message - Print First message is printing fine, second only closes the view folder window, but doesn't print. Cannot confirm. But it should not close the window after the mail is printed. It is not replying/forwarding... -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.9.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Development for URL manager
KV Sometimes I get these phishing mails. Easy to recognize, as the KV visible link and the link if I would click on it are different. It's already planned, though I don't see how it's connected to the URL Manager. Hmm... you are right. It is not connected really. I just opened up it when I had this idea. Good to hear that you will implement it. -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.9.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Development for URL manager
TB's development's direction should favor the average user, not the geeks by my opinion. That's about to discuss, because i know more Geeks than Users which have The Bat! installed. If it is possible to set it up easy for a User and enable Geek Options afterwards - i would find it the best idea. Agree. Ok, let's call it Expert User option, so we dont hurt our feelings :) Vili Current beta is 4.1.9.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Quick Search suddenly Invisible
Just a question: Is this useful to anyone? I have tried to use Quicksearch but always ended up opening the (real) Search in order to find what I was looking for. KV It is for sophisticated users, not beginners, that is true. I think, KV it is a useful feature, use regularly. As has become clear in the meantime, the Quicksearch has more functions that first meets the eye. This is from the help: Quick Search Quick Search is a real-time search to find a message in the message list. As you type, the first message matching your string is selected in the list; type on for further refinement. If the next letter you type has no match in the list it is automatically removed from the search string. The selection prevales. 1. Go to View-Toolbars-Quick Search 2. Type your search string into the Search field 3. Press Ctrl+Enter to find the next message with the same search string 4. Shift+Ctrl+Enter takes you back to the previous result 5. Press Enter to invoke a Quick Filter using the Quick Search string. Only messages matching the Quick Search are now shown. 6. Press Ctrl+= or Esc to remove the Quick Filter. Note: To get to the Quick Search toolbar you can also right-click on the the toolbar dock and choose it from the pop-up menu. Note: Quick Search also works when its toolbar is not visible. Beware: Quick Search works on a selected folder/account only! Vili Current beta is 4.1.9.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Voyager 4.1.7.3
MM Please make a TBK backup with your Voyager and try the new MM version: MM http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/voyager_install_4-1-7-3.exe I did and the conversion seems to have run fine. I didn't need the backup yet. Should not we test v4.1.9? That does not have the empty folder problem, right? Vili Current beta is 4.1.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Take out the automatic update from the program
We have just removed the version.xml file from the website to prevent the automatic update of The Bat! versions prior to 4.1. Thank you, that is a start. The Bat! v4.1.9 that we have put to the website on January 6th resolves the index issue, so the users are free to move back and forth without any loss of data. It was a very politically correct answer :) However, if you move back, the already deleted mails shows up again... Right? In a next version of The Bat!, we will put a warning that a backup is in new format and is incompatible with previous format. We will also try to improve the MSI install script to check whether the key is OK for The Bat! 4.1. We will also modify the download page on the website to make the user explicitly agree with the update policy. You should do it now. It should be a first priority. Believe me, I try to help, even if I swear or use bad language or pushing you. You know, it does not matter how good a program is, if you mess it up with this v4/v4.1 issue. Please understand, the users feel it that you FORCE them to upgrade with it... Believe me, they will upgrade because of the HTML templates, but let them to decide it. Business 101. I dont try to be Dieter (you remember him, right, German distributor), but I have to give you hones feedback. If I use bad words sometimes, I am really sorry, I am desperate in this issue. I have firsthand connection with angry users, and I have to admint that they are right... Sorry, I dont answer to others mails, I dont want to make this thread superlong. -- Vili Current beta is 4.1.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re[2]: Take out the automatic update from the program
We have put an intermediary download page to our site. Is it OK? Could you please check it now? Perfect. You gave back my confidence :) This is the text that should be there. If somebody downloads it from another page (people downloaded and they put it on their shareware site), that is their problem. Your official site should be and is now correct. Thank you again, Vili Current beta is 4.1.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Take out the automatic update from the program
Believe me, I try to help Thats what i really want to emphasize too, all of us try to do the best to help The Bat! be the best E-Mail Application availiable. Just one short reply here: what people does not realize here at TBBETA sometimes (with answers like Automatic update can be switched off which is true, if you know about it) that TB must be sold in order to finance the development, the company. If you piss off the general users, you lose income. It makes the whole situation harder if the users are right being pissed off, as was in the situation now. Anyway, I think, now the website is corrected appropriately,nobody can complain. Vili Current beta is 4.1.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Folders with 0 messages after conversion
That is one reason I still dont publish v4.1 on my Hungarian site. Who knows what major bug is in v4.1.9. These kinds of stuff should NEVER happen. A version should be tested for a month at least before a public release. We are professionals, but the users are not. :((( Vili, index conversion was tested almost two months, but nobody reported this, I had no betatester in my lists with such problem. And as I can say, only three users reported me this and it was downloaded almost 2000 times from our page already. v4.1.7 was NOT tested for two months. Even if the program is slightly changed, it should be used by us for like two weeks at least... We see recurring errors that disappear and come back later. The problem is not really us, but it goes to the hands of users with no computational intelligence, they dont know what to do. Vili PS: User reports/realizes a problem not equal User has a problem Current beta is 4.1.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: HTML Templates in AB Groups
Can you please answer one simple question: do you consider implementing HTML templates in Address Book groups? And for contacts. And for mass mailing. ... Perfect :). Customers demand it :( -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.39.27 (ALPHA) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: messages go missing
KV If I would read this conversation to my 5 year olds, they would KV understand that IT IS NOT ABOUT GMAIL... Should I spell it? Since you are yelling and insulting, the thread is closed for me. Now that I showed you some facts (e.g. log from the thread starting email) that you cannot argue with, you go and hide. Typical... Where I live it is called coward behaviour. /sarcasm on I used capitals as I thought you can't read lowercase letters. I gave it a try. I just tried to help. /sarcasm off. If you are an adult, sarcasm should not bother you. Learn from it. I learnt from it. I did not know that TB does not send the DELETE command to the server until the mail is imported successfully. But I also learnt, that it gives you a FETCH - connection finished - 3 messages received in the log, even if it was an unsuccessful download. What do you say about it? I know that you read this email, we both know. The reason I am upset: a.) it does not matter how many times I tell you that what this thread is about b.) I try to make TB BETTER with this. That is my moral high ground. Yes, maybe I am a little rough with my words, but on the longer run -I hope- it will move TB forward. TB is an excellent client, but unfortunately the support (manual, undocumented features), small glitches (see the bug list) drive some people from it. I believe, that ANY problem that is or can be seen (and unsuccessful import, even if that is because of an antivirus) as the fault of TB, should be displayed. As Davis said: he does not care what the reason is, he need a solution. -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.39.27 (ALPHA) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: messages go missing
I started this thread, and at no point did state I had a problem with Gmail. I just had a problem. are you saying that you didn't mention gmail at first, or that the problem was with some service other than gmail? I did not state gmail. It was in the log. My gripe here is that TB! had a problem and I was not informed. I personally don't care where the problem originates. I just want to know about it. To be clear, there were two issues. 1. a mail cannot be downloaded again (by default) from GMail, once it was downloaded. It is a GMail issue, and unfortunately if TB fails to import the downloaded mails, you cannot download them again (by default). Nobody argues that GMail and a POP3 client is not the best combination. But, I believe, Google's intention was to use their web interface, so you can see their ads. Understandable. 2. poor alerting the user if mails cannot be imported into TB. This thread -except the first some mails- is about this issue. Just some people cannot/does not want to read. Please understand that not everybody is a TB expert. Even if they would read the manual... -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.39.27 (ALPHA) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: messages go missing
KV If I would read this conversation to my 5 year olds, they would KV understand that IT IS NOT ABOUT GMAIL... Should I spell it? Since you are yelling and insulting, the thread is closed for me. Now that I showed you some facts (e.g. log from the thread starting email) that you cannot argue with, you go and hide. Typical... Where I live it is called coward behaviour. /sarcasm on I used capitals as I thought you can't read lowercase letters. I gave it a try. I just tried to help. /sarcasm off. AND IT IS ABOUT GMAIL. I just dont believe it... You send two mails. In the first one, where you reply to another mail of mine, and I mention two issues, you trim off the second part, which IS the subject of this thread for a long time now... I asked it from Paul as well, please answer with a simple yes or no: This is David's log: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 8 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 19/11/2008, 19:46:31: FETCH - receiving mail messages 19/11/2008, 19:46:33: FETCH - Initiating TLS handshake 19/11/2008, 19:46:34: FETCH - Certificate S/N: 1A2280FB, algorithm: RSA (512 bits), issued from 29/10/2008 22:32:35 to 24/10/2028 22:32:35, for 1 host(s): pop.gmail.com. 19/11/2008, 19:46:34: FETCH - Owner: EN, pop.gmail.com. 19/11/2008, 19:46:34: FETCH - This certificate is self-issued. 19/11/2008, 19:46:34: FETCH - TLS handshake complete 19/11/2008, 19:46:34: FETCH - connected to POP3 server 19/11/2008, 19:46:35: FETCH - authenticated (plain) 19/11/2008, 19:46:35: FETCH - 3 messages in the mailbox, 3 new 19/11/2008, 19:46:36: FETCH - Received message from Mark Laridon [EMAIL PROTECTED], size: 3065 bytes, subject: Meeting Wednesday 3rd December 19/11/2008, 19:46:36: FETCH - Received message from Geoff Boult [EMAIL PROTECTED], size: 3640 bytes, subject: VAT 19/11/2008, 19:46:36: FETCH - Received message from Mark Laridon [EMAIL PROTECTED], size: 3397 bytes, subject: Re: VAT !19/11/2008, 19:47:08: FETCH - could not store message (file name - C:\DOCUME~1\Davide\LOCALS~1\Temp\bat623.tmp) !19/11/2008, 19:47:43: FETCH - could not store message (file name - C:\DOCUME~1\Davide\LOCALS~1\Temp\bat624.tmp) !19/11/2008, 19:48:13: FETCH - could not store message (file name - C:\DOCUME~1\Davide\LOCALS~1\Temp\bat625.tmp) 19/11/2008, 19:48:13: FETCH - connection finished - 3 messages received -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 8 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Is the last line correct or not? Simple yes or no, please. Your answer is NOT RELATED TO GMAIL. It could be any server. The mails are downloaded, could not stored and still connection finished - 3 messages received (last line.) I try not to be sarcastic. Ok. Let's base this discussion on facts. You see the facts above. Waiting your answer. -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.39.27 (ALPHA) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: fixed a bug in scheduler (not an ALPHA)
After fixing a bug in editing folder properties, we have updated the last release again by fixing the bug in the scheduler that prevented the schuduler from opening. Plase, do not install these MSIs over the latest ALPHAs because of the incompatibilities with the message bases. These MSIs are only for those who are using non alpha version. http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/thebat_home_4-0-38.msi http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/thebat_pro_4-0-38.msi http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/thebat_rus_4-0-38.msi I have 4.0.20.1. Can it be upgraded with this? -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.37.26 (ALPHA) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: fixed a bug in scheduler (not an ALPHA)
After fixing a bug in editing folder properties, we have updated the last release again by fixing the bug in the scheduler that prevented the schuduler from opening... ... and we implemented and old bug, namely that TB now cannot connect to the Exchange server... :)) Seriously, TB cannot connect to the Exchange server now. -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.37.26 (ALPHA) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: messages go missing
DE I think my point is that the message temp file wan able to be saved but it DE appears the the server was told the the messages had been saved. (I could be DE wrong here) It's actually how GMail behaves - the messages are deleted as soon as they're downloaded, no matter what client wants to do with them afterwards. You can use Web interface and reset counters to be able to download messages again. Beware the dupes! :-) But we all agree that if The Bat! cannot save the 1st mail, it should NOT download the other messages but give the user a big red screen that he has to cleanup the TEMP dir, and ONLY allow download mail when the user confirms that it cleaned it. OR: be sure before download a mail that it will be able to store it: check size and check if it can store the temp file on the HDD. Furthermore, if Delete from server is set (some simple POP server, no GMAil), ONLY delete from server if it could store it. Mail SHOULD NEVER BE LOST because of TB. Users will bite our asses... -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.25 (ALPHA) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
One Address book per user
So, in a multiuser Windows environment, if different users run TB, they see different accounts. But the addressbook is the same. Or is it possible to have different address books for the different users? -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.23 (ALPHA) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Multi Monitor support lacking
CG Not sure if anyone else has these problems... but: CG Using Vista x64 Ultimate with TB!4.034.22 with 2 TFTs. CG I find that TB! stays in front of all its own windows. When opening a CG mail to read TB! stay in front the mail window opens behind. I have to CG move TB! main window or minimize it in order to read the mail. Which CG is really annoying. can't confirm using Windows XP SP3 and TB! Home 4.034.22 on Maxtor G550 with 2 TFT's (analog and digital) I think, the original sender must have an ATI graphics card. Those have (sorry) cr.ppy drivers, softwares. I have a Matrox G450 card, never any problem. On some other PCs we have ATIs, all kinds of problems. You have to use that HydraVision software, but that has its own issues. -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.22 (ALPHA) | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: An irritating problem (edit message window)
I can not confirm... the new message window is always in the last used position, height and weight. Is it possible, that if you have admin rights, then it is saved, if you have user rights, it's not? Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.16 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Upgrade from 4.0.20.1. to the newest
I did not follow closely the recent beta cycle, but there was some problem with index files. Can I just replace the exe file to upgrade from the version in the subject to the newest version? -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.15 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Problems with 4.0.34.15
1. I think MAU reported, folder sizes (in MB) are not correct. If in the folder list you let TB show the size of the folders in MB, and you e.g. compress, the size does not change. 2. In case of an Exchange account: Properties, Transfer. There is a black box in front of the name of the user. 3. HTML templates. If I convert a folder template to HTML, and I have MicroEd or the HTML only set up as default editor, it is messed up. This is my reply macro in one of my folder: %Cursor %Quotes Vilmos %TO= %TO=fname lname [EMAIL PROTECTED] When I reply to a mail, the Recipient line looks like this: fname lname lt;/spana class=rvts7 href= and in the Body of the mail the last line looks like this: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.15 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Problems with 4.0.34.15
I gave up on this alpha. After I sent a mail, it left a mail with Draft flag in my Outbox. When I clicked on it, it went into an endless loop of error messages. Also, my Run external program+Move mail filter hang. Back to 20.1. -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.15 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Folder size
Whatever I do in a folder, the size of it in the folder list does not change. Deleted all mails from Trash, Compressed, restarted TB, it is still shown as 63 MB. -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.15 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: SmartBat, new feature should be revoked
PLEASE remove those X-es from the tabs. OK, we will remove it in the next beta. Thank you. I would not ask if it would not be really problematic. Also: could you tell me how could I change the order of the tabs easily? (Ok, I can close all of them and open them in the right order, as a workaround. I have like 20 tabs :) Passwords, banks, to do, one for each software we resell, etc.) -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.13 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: SmartBat, new feature should be revoked
PLEASE remove those X-es from the tabs. OK, we will remove it in the next beta. Thank you. I would not ask if it would not be really problematic. Also: could you tell me how could I change the order of the tabs easily? (Ok, I can close all of them and open them in the right order, as a workaround. I have like 20 tabs :) Passwords, banks, to do, one for each software we resell, etc.) You can wait if will be moving tabs implemented in Smartbat od change order in SmartBat.INI (if You do not use OTFE) Actually, I use Voyager, so I cannot edit that... :(( -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.13 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Request, decoding utility
Maybe I ask too much, but: Could we get a utility that would convert ENI, EBD, EBB, etc. encoded files into non-encoded files? And vice versa. Only the person who knows the master password could decode these files anyway, right? Reason: - most importantly: I could edit my SmartBat.ENI file :) (jost joking) - if Voyager is messed up, mails cannot be read anymore... So, this utility would allow saving info from encoded files. You have to know the password, though. -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.13 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: Request, decoding utility
V Could we get a utility that would convert ENI, EBD, EBB, etc. encoded V files into non-encoded files? And vice versa. Only the person who V knows the master password could decode these files anyway, right? PM This is a nice idea, could be quite useful. I support this wish. :) Me too! Is the password enough to decode these files? Or is there any other code that is used in the encoding/decoding process? -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.13 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Request, decoding utility
V Could we get a utility that would convert ENI, EBD, EBB, etc. encoded V files into non-encoded files? And vice versa. Only the person who V knows the master password could decode these files anyway, right? This is a nice idea, could be quite useful. I support this wish. :) On the other hand it is possible to backup Voyager and restore the backup into a non encrypted The Bat! Yes, but that is a quite long and complicated process. I especially serious about a case, when Voyager has problems (we saw that) and mails are lost. If TB has problems, we still have TBB files, import mails, ready to go. It is not possible to import from EBB files. -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.13 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Slow shutdown speed is back again...
I just noticed, when I tried to install the latest beta on my machine, that the slow shutdown times for Tb are back again. I concur. It is noticeable at Voyager, too. -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.12 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Tips at startup
I dont see a way to switch them back, once they turned off... -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
re: Tips at startup
I dont see a way to switch them back, once they turned off... Forget it, sorry, found it. Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
The Bat!/Voyager and Microsoft ForeFront
So, if TB or TBV is installed along Microsoft ForeFront, than MsMPEng.exe's CPU usage is 99% all the time... There is an issue between Ritlabs' products and ForeFront. If the directory of TB or TBV is added to the exclusions, everything is fine. -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Voyager, SmartBat
There is no Minimize, Resize and Maximize icons at this window. Only the X is visible. -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Voyager, SmartBat, 2.
The Main pad cannot be closed (while selecting close from the context menu is possible). -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.34.0 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
