Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
On 02 March 2002 at 15:47 Miguel wrote:
My point, in case I didn't make it clear, is that everything in a
message adds up to it's final footprint and not just secure
signatures. And that all redundant and/or unnecessary information
is, from my point of view, a waste. That is why I used the Me too
as an example of how a very short message may end up with an
un-proportional footprint, specially if you multiply it by the number
of subscribers to this list.
I'm afraid things are going the opposite way - try, for example,
i. Yahoo! Groups mailing lists (adverts added by servers);
ii. emails from corporate mail addresses ('this mail is virus-free'
and/or legal disclaimers added by servers).
Neither of these additions existed a few years ago and in some ways,
this list adds very little; often either of i. or ii. are 20 lines
long and are enforced (the user can't turn them off) :(
Alastair
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DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Alastair, On 03 March 2002 at 21:07:35 + Alastair Scott wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm afraid things are going the opposite way - try, for example, moderator This topic went way off / too long and I have already pronounced it dead. Please take it off-list or to TBOT. Thank you. /moderator - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ___ \ BrainStorm - think outside the box http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / · SB! v1.54 Beta/43/iKey1000-5523848F0B1 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 · -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQE8gpT9OeQkq5KdzaARApYxAKCo6VJY8x4+9DINaITRIsXuZSJAFgCeNQcw ci6nV+/RK0dww1CXB242MbQ= =Dnuh -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
Hello Miguel! On Saturday, March 2, 2002 at 11:43:35 AM you wrote: I may be quite dumb but, aside of wasting bandwidth and filling up everybody's mailboxes and folders, I don't see the purpose of sending S/MIME or PGP signed messages to a list like this one. Am I missing something? There has been quite a discussion in the last year about secure signing or not. Without going into the details, let me just say that I am all for it. But I have refrained from doing it on the TB! lists due to many people complaining about the added footprint of them. As for S/MIME, I am not a big fan of it, regard it actually as just a clever marketing scheme not giving much security. the arguments for this can be read up in several places, like the Introduction to PGP by Phil Zimmermann. all of that said, I can't help you with your problem, but can't really imagine that the sig is the culprit. There has to be something else. -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.54 Beta/45 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.(George Bernard Shaw) -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
Hi Dierk, There has been quite a discussion in the last year about secure signing or not. I missed it, I joined this list about a month ago. Without going into the details, let me just say that I am all for it. That may be my problem, that I don't understand the benefits of secure signing in general, and for a list like this in particular. I may have to do some reading about PGP, etc., and see if I understand. But I have refrained from doing it on the TB! lists due to many people complaining about the added footprint of them. But the big footprint is not just caused by secure signatures, at least the way I see it. As an example to explain what I mean let's take one of these Me too! messages ( and by me too here I mean a short 1 line text). - First you get the RFC-822 headers. We don't normally look at them, at least I don't, but they are there. Quite huge some times. And on messages coming from this list with all kinds of information and URLs about the list. I think some times it even includes the birthday date of the youngest nice of the moderator ;-) - Then messages from some of you tell us that it is a PGP signed one. - Then some of you, on replies, tell us _again_ who you are replying to, even with the original message ID some times, and what time it was in 2 or 7 different parts of the world when when the originator wrote his message and when you received it, and many times even repeating the subject of the message. I assume that everybody in this list uses TB, don't all of you take advantage of threading? - Then some people quote the whole original message, or big parts of it. Again, what about threading? - Then you write Me too!. - Then, finally, a normal signature. This is nice and polite. But some time perhaps too big with full address details, etc., etc. - Then information about TB version being used. Normal and needed in a list like this. - Then maybe a rather long Cookie. When reading and writing to this list I assume we are mainly interested about TB, possible problems and ways to do things. But, who cares about what John Doe thinks about French fries? - But we are not finished yet. Then comes the PGP signature, some times rather long, so I will know that it was you who wrote Me too! and that you did write Me too!. Correct? - But we are not done yet either. Then comes the information added by the list server, telling us again when is the birthday of the youngest moderator's nice and which is already in the RFC-822 headers - And then, finally, like in my own messages until I register (if I do) MailScan and can get rid of it, maybe a disclaimer saying that this message has no virus. And all of that to just say Me too!. It does seem quite a waste to me. As for S/MIME, I am not a big fan of it, regard it actually as just a clever marketing scheme not giving much security. the arguments for this can be read up in several places, like the Introduction to PGP by Phil Zimmermann. As I have said above, I probably need to do some reading about PGP, etc. all of that said, I can't help you with your problem, but can't really imagine that the sig is the culprit. There has to be something else. I have no idea what may cause the problem, I just wanted to say that Me too! g had seen the same problem as Geoff. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.53d ** Scanned by MailScan Content-Security and Anti-Virus Software. Visit http://www.mwti.net for more info on eScan and MailScan. ** -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
Hello Miguel! On Saturday, March 2, 2002 at 1:38:26 PM you wrote: I missed it, I joined this list about a month ago. Luckily the archives are quite good. ;-) That may be my problem, that I don't understand the benefits of secure signing in general, and for a list like this in particular. I may have to do some reading about PGP, etc., and see if I understand. More or less the same as signing an ordinary letter or contract. But the big footprint is not just caused by secure signatures, at least the way I see it. As an example to explain what I mean let's take one of these Me too! messages ( and by me too here I mean a short 1 line text). I see your point, but ... Sometimes Me, too messages are needed especially on software related lists, e.g. to identify bugs. - First you get the RFC-822 headers. 1. We can't do anything against them. 2. I've seen a lot of requests to include more headers. 3. TB! already uses only the most sufficient ones (plus list headers, which are a real improvement on lists). I assume that everybody in this list uses TB, don't all of you take advantage of threading? Some use threading, some don't. but that's beside the point. Maybe it is just a matter of personal taste but I like the (various) intros in messages, although I use the pure, short, informational one only. - Then some people quote the whole original message, or big parts of it. Again, what about threading? I concur when it comes to full quotes. What about my use of snipped quoting? BTW, threading doesn't come in here, I usually delete a message I've read unless it is very important to me and I don't have any other meaningful way of storing it but TB!'s message base. - Then, finally, a normal signature. This is nice and polite. But some time perhaps too big with full address details, etc., etc. I consider it a letter head, which is quite useful for both sides, sender and receiver. - Then maybe a rather long Cookie. When reading and writing to this list I assume we are mainly interested about TB, possible problems and ways to do things. But, who cares about what John Doe thinks about French fries? Wrong. Communication is about much more than pure information. Luckily the world (of business) again begins to recognize this crucial point. I don't want to bore you, so I just leave the monologue. Just believe me, I like those cookies by others, it tells me a lot about their state of mind. - But we are not finished yet. Then comes the PGP signature, some times rather long, so I will know that it was you who wrote Me too! and that you did write Me too!. Correct? Yes. - But we are not done yet either. Then comes the information added by the list server, telling us again when is the birthday of the youngest moderator's nice and which is already in the RFC-822 headers Don't you think you are beginning to go overboard with a real point you might have? And all of that to just say Me too!. It does seem quite a waste to me. The problem is more about contents of a message and therefore the thought one put into it. It's not so much about the overhead. I have no idea what may cause the problem, I just wanted to say that Me too! g had seen the same problem as Geoff. see, that's why it sometimes is a good thing to Me-too. -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.54 Beta/45 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C Do you speak Esperanto? - Like a native! -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
Hi Dierk, I missed it, I joined this list about a month ago. Luckily the archives are quite good. ;-) Yes, I know they quite good. But I don't have the time now. More or less the same as signing an ordinary letter or contract. Understand. I can understand that to sign a contract you need to proof the you are you with an ID card, or a passport or something. But do you show your passport every time you write a note to a friend? ;-) Sometimes Me, too messages are needed especially on software related lists, e.g. to identify bugs. Of course. I am not questioning the Me too messages, or its need, I used that as an example of short messages. - First you get the RFC-822 headers. 1. We can't do anything against them. Right. But they do add to the footprint of the message, don't they? That's my point. I like the (various) intros in messages, although I use the pure, short, informational one only. I don't mind the intros themselves. Although I hardly really pay attention to any of them, some of them are funny. But they do add to the foot print also, don't they? What about my use of snipped quoting? That's the way I think we all should do it. BTW, threading doesn't come in here, I usually delete a message I've read unless it is very important to me and I don't have any other meaningful way of storing it but TB!'s message base. You should keep messages for a couple of weeks or so. You may not be interested in at first, but become interested as the _thread_ grows a couple of days afterwards. The you could easily follow the thread without having to go to the list archives. Wrong. Communication is about much more than pure information. Yes, in a chat, or a general purpose forum, or at a bar while drinking a couple of beers. I like those cookies by others, it tells me a lot about their state of mind. Aren't most cookies just automatically and randomly inserted at the end of the message? Then comes the PGP signature, some times rather long, so I will know that it was you who wrote Me too! and that you did write Me too!. Correct? Yes. Great. I got it then. I may not need as much reading as I thought. ;-) Don't you think you are beginning to go overboard with a real point you might have? My point, in case I didn't make it clear, is that everything in a message adds up to it's final footprint and not just secure signatures. And that all redundant and/or unnecessary information is, from my point of view, a waste. That is why I used the Me too as an example of how a very short message may end up with an un-proportional footprint, specially if you multiply it by the number of subscribers to this list. see, that's why it sometimes is a good thing to Me-too. I never said they weren't. See paragraph above. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.53d ** Scanned by MailScan Content-Security and Anti-Virus Software. Visit http://www.mwti.net for more info on eScan and MailScan. ** -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Re[2]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:47:20 +0100 Miguel A. Urech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the (various) intros in messages, although I use the pure, short, informational one only. I don't mind the intros themselves. Although I hardly really pay attention to any of them, some of them are funny. But they do add to the foot print also, don't they? More foot print means what ? Which the power of TB! to autodelete signature when reply, long signature will no problem. Or use selective reply, so even replying messags without uncorrect signature separator or very long greetings no problem for me. If you're talking about message size that affect time to download msg from POP3 (concern of people who use Dial Up which pay by minute), this list already restrict the size so that big size message will not allow post to the list. If you are talking about bandwith waste, I think it is me concern about that, that's why this list restrict message size. -- syafril === Syafril Hermansyah[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[4]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
Hi Syafril, More foot print means what ? More bytes than needed. Longer transmission time no matter how fast it is; more storage space required; more time needed for backups; more time when doing searches on the message base; more... everything. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.53d ** Scanned by MailScan Content-Security and Anti-Virus Software. Visit http://www.mwti.net for more info on eScan and MailScan. ** -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
Hello Miguel A. Urech, On Saturday, March 02 2002 at 07:47 AM PDT, you wrote: Right. But they do add to the footprint of the message, don't they? That's my point. Not to an appreciable amount using PGP or GPG, but certainly with S/MIME because every signed message includes the Public Key as well. That is one of the drawbacks to using S/MIME. -- Nick Andriash Courtenay, B.C. Canada -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Re[4]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:05:20 +0100 Miguel A. Urech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More foot print means what ? More bytes than needed. Longer transmission time no matter how fast it is; more storage space required; more time needed for backups; more time when doing searches on the message base; more... everything. You can set kill filter to restrict POP msg size, set it as lower as you wish, then you will get...nothing :-) I don't think this discussion is in possitive direction, can we stop this thread ? -- syafril === Syafril Hermansyah[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[6]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
Hi Syafril, You can set kill filter to restrict POP msg size, set it as lower as you wish, then you will get...nothing :-) No, I won't do that. But I wish I could set up a filter to just extract _significant_ text out of messages and leave all superfluous and redundant stuff out. I don't think this discussion is in possitive direction, Depends on what you consider positive. If we disagree on what superfluous and redundant means, we may as well disagree on what positive means. can we stop this thread ? You can set up a filter to throw any further messages on this thread to your trash bin. ;-) -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.53d ** Scanned by MailScan Content-Security and Anti-Virus Software. Visit http://www.mwti.net for more info on eScan and MailScan. ** -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
Pete, Personal mails, of course, are a totally different thing. Forgot to say that I agree with this. Same as with business or company email. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.53d ** Scanned by MailScan Content-Security and Anti-Virus Software. Visit http://www.mwti.net for more info on eScan and MailScan. ** -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
Hello Pete, 02. marec 2002, 20:25:26, you wrote: P No 48 kB P posts here saying well said. Yes, there are mailing-lists like that P :-( I've seen that, but it's not the worst - some people not only that they send in HTML, but they also use images for background - nothing like a How do I do _ in ? one-liner and 60 kB background image... Or a well-behaved discussion, some messages get pretty long (but are in plain-text), and then you get a guy saying Don't we have enough of this already, complete message quoted below and in HTML... -- Jernej Simoncic, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjsimo/ ICQ: 26266467 [The Bat! v1.54 Beta/44 on Windows 98 4.10.. A ] If at first you don't succeed, transform your data set. -- Law of Computability as Applied to Social Science -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
Syafril, You forget the most important (IMO) issue: Unneccessary intros, felicitations, quoting, cookies and sigs simply make the actual message content harder to find, slower to read and more difficult to comprehend. Especially on high volume mailing-lists, such as this, every unneccessary byte makes the list just a little less useful or enjoyable. -- Ian Petersen -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
Hello Ian, Saturday, March 2, 2002, 10:17:49 PM, you wrote: IP Especially on high volume mailing-lists, such as this, every IP unneccessary byte makes the list just a little less useful or IP enjoyable. This says it all, really. Thank you Ian for those words. And thanks Miguel and Jernej :-) -- Best regards, Pete -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Jernej, On 02 March 2002 at 20:51:29 +0100 (which was 19:51 where I live) Jernej Simoni wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] complete message quoted below and in HTML... moderator This topic has gone way off / too long and I am forced to pronounce it dead. Please take it off-list or to TBOT. Thank you. /moderator - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ___ \ BrainStorm - think outside the box http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / SB! v1.54 Beta/43/iKey1000-5523848F0B1 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQE8gUItOeQkq5KdzaARAhmyAJ9xb39Q2SP6v/bCIjT3ghKJPg6JMACfaaLf YJSV5NY8YCmQHrW20RqOeVc= =LrQA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))
Hi Mark, This topic has gone way off / too long and I am forced to pronounce it dead. You are not being fair here Mark. We are talking about this list and the noise in it. Why what we have to say is way off and too long and the unnecessary introductions, long signatures and all the PGP stuff are not? Why don't you send them all to TBOT also? Thanks, -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.53d ** Scanned by MailScan Content-Security and Anti-Virus Software. Visit http://www.mwti.net for more info on eScan and MailScan. ** -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))
It was foretold that on 2-3-2002 @ 21:20:43 GMT+ (which was 22:20 where I live) Marck D Pearlstone wrote and spread these wise comments on DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)): complete message quoted below and in HTML... MDP moderator MDP This topic has gone way off / too long and I am forced to pronounce MDP it dead. SNIP MDP Thank you. MDP /moderator No, _thank you_ Marck :-) -- Best regards, Lucmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] \|||/ \\\ - - /// ( @ @ ) oOOOo---(_)---oOOOo--- Using The Bat! v1.53d on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Thought for the day : Drive carefully. It's not only cars that can be recalled by their maker. O- ( ) O ) / ( ) (_/ \ ( \_) -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))
Hi Luc, It was foretold that on 2-3-2002 @ 21:20:43 GMT+ (which was 22:20 where I live) Marck D Pearlstone wrote and spread these wise comments on DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)): Luc and Mark, isn't this completely unnecessary and way off-topic of any topic? Come on! Be fare! \|||/ \\\ - - /// ( @ @ ) oOOOo---(_)---oOOOo--- Using The Bat! v1.53d on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Thought for the day : Drive carefully. It's not only cars that can be recalled by their maker. O- ( ) O ) / ( ) (_/ \ ( \_) And this. Nice ASCII art perhaps, but n_o_i_s_e in a list like this. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.53d ** Scanned by MailScan Content-Security and Anti-Virus Software. Visit http://www.mwti.net for more info on eScan and MailScan. ** -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Luc, On 02 March 2002 at 23:33:16 +0100 (which was 22:33 where I live) Luc wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] No, _thank you_ Marck :-) Now this is *s* ironic and you're gonna make me feel real bad, I know, but Luc? Your sig ahem it's one of those that breaks the rules :-. moderator Netiquette states that 4-6 lines is enough. Your peeping man-card looks very good, but spans 18 lines! Any way you can abbreviate it for use here? Same for anyone else with signatures longer than 6 lines (excluding PGP sigs). This is the once-in-a-while reminder. No more replies on this topic, I thank you. /moderator - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ___ \ BrainStorm - a spare brain - from: http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / · SB! v1.54 Beta/43/iKey1000-5523848F0B1 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 · -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQE8gVpaOeQkq5KdzaARAhk/AKCFUo1XiLfrX+KgsCLkb3ApvgU8oQCfSuRv VPzBkfiFXsayaq715auX4ZQ= =sD8N -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))
It was foretold that on 3-3-2002 @ 23:03:52 GMT+ (which was 0:03 where I live) Marck D Pearlstone wrote and spread these wise comments on DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)): MDP Now this is *s* ironic and you're gonna make me feel real bad, I MDP know, but Luc? Your sig ahem it's one of those that breaks MDP the rules :-. Ooops, ahem am i feeling stupid LOL -- Best regards, Lucmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v1.53d on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Thought for the day : Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up. -- Pablo Picasso. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))
It was foretold that on 2-3-2002 @ 23:47:39 GMT+0100 (which was 23:47 where I live) Miguel A. Urech wrote and spread these wise comments on DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)): MAU Luc and Mark, isn't this completely unnecessary and way off-topic of MAU any topic? Come on! Be fare! This tread brings up no solutions or tips on a TB! problem, it just takes up space on the list. The topic may be interesting for some subscribers but take it to TB! off topic list. -- Best regards, Lucmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! v1.53d on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Thought for the day : He who is always his own counsellor will often have a fool for his client. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[3]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
Hi Miguel, Saturday, March 2, 2002, 6:54:03 PM, you wrote: Miguel A. Urech To me, if something is superfluous, it is superfluous whether is is Miguel A. Urech one or umpteen bytes long. Well that's fine ... for you! I actually like to see peoples sig, especially on a List like this where (I assume) people are likely to be doing interesting and useful things that I might benefit from. Certainly, on a couple of other Lists I am a member of, I have found excellent resources and services that I have used just by clicking on a URL in someone's signature. I think it is fine so long as someone isn't exploiting other members by, say, posting sig's with affiliate links (even then it can be a fine line). So, the issue is one best left to our wise and capable moderator ;-) With best wishes, Dave -- David Conroy MSW Personal Life and Business Coaching World-wide http://www.e-coaching-only.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Member International Coach Federation, ID 1006660. PGP Key on request mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_pgp Instant Messaging on request mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_im Using The Bat! v1.54 Beta/45 Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))
Hi Luc, Marck may have to ban me for replying, but I'll take the risk. You said: (wait, was it really you? Maybe not, as you are not using PGP now I can't be sure). Anyway, I think it was you who said: This tread brings up no solutions or tips on a TB! problem, it just takes up space on the list. Look Luc, you have to be a bit more coherent on what you say. Please read the rest. It was foretold that on 2-3-2002 @ 23:47:39 GMT+0100 (which was 23:47 where I live) Miguel A. Urech wrote and spread these wise comments on DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)): Nice tip about TB!. Just what I was looking for. I must be blind or something, I have seen it so many times and it wasn't till now that I realised it was a tip and a solution about TB. And it doesn't take much space either. Thought for the day : He who is always his own counsellor will often have a fool for his client. Heyyy! That's another handy little tip about TB! Thanks Luc. And where is your fancy tiny signature, I'm gonna miss it! (Provided I am not banned, of course) Marck, do as you think you have to. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v1.53d ** Scanned by MailScan Content-Security and Anti-Virus Software. Visit http://www.mwti.net for more info on eScan and MailScan. ** -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Re[6]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:39:28 +0100 Miguel A. Urech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can set kill filter to restrict POP msg size, set it as lower as you wish, then you will get...nothing :-) No, I won't do that. But I wish I could set up a filter to just extract _significant_ text out of messages and leave all superfluous and redundant stuff out. That's it possitive thinking, let's discuss on this direction. The way our mailer will do in our control, we can do what we want. Blaming the world is wasting time. I don't think this discussion is in possitive direction, Depends on what you consider positive. If we disagree on what superfluous and redundant means, we may as well disagree on what positive means. See above. can we stop this thread ? You can set up a filter to throw any further messages on this thread to your trash bin. ;-) Oh I can do more than that if I want. As List Administrator of this list I can banned posting base on subject or other criterion at Listserver level, and as postmaster for this host I can banned you in SMTP Level. But it is not my attitude to blame the world, but if you need prove that I can banned your domain, tell me than I will do that right away. -- syafril === Syafril Hermansyah[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)
On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:17:49 +0100 Ian Petersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You forget the most important (IMO) issue: Unneccessary intros, felicitations, quoting, cookies and sigs simply make the actual message content harder to find, slower to read and more difficult to comprehend. Especially on high volume mailing-lists, such as this, every unneccessary byte makes the list just a little less useful or enjoyable. Actually I am agree with you, the message content is more important than greetings, sigs and others. From the archive you may seen that we have discuss about that, and in one occasion I even recommend not to use TO : Real-Name$list-address format nor Initial quote tag (IP) on *public list* NOT on TB! list. One of the power of TB! is the template creation, this making TB! user to use his creation to expand the possibilities, please let them to exersize that on his community. For others, treat this as a chalange and ask and discuss this on this list how to avoid this situation, because maybe we meet this situation on other public list someday. Please be open mind and be gentle, don't blame the world, by that we will enrich our experience each others. -- syafril === Syafril Hermansyah[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
