Re: [time-nuts] TNS-BUF order update

2018-06-25 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Its a form of CE with a resistor in series with the emitter coupled with transformer feedback from collector to base. Production scheduling likely prevents substitution of alternatives to achieve a faster delivery. Assembly costs would likely increase if leaded parts are substituted. Initial

Re: [time-nuts] HP 5065A A1 replacement with DDS

2018-06-24 Thread Bruce Griffiths
In principle DDS spurs due to phase truncation can be largely suppressed using well known techniques when an FPGA is used just leaving spurs due to the DAC. Bruce > On 25 June 2018 at 06:00 Attila Kinali mailto:att...@kinali.ch > wrote: > > > On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 17:29:43 + >

Re: [time-nuts] Low phase noise affordable GPSDO

2018-06-20 Thread Bruce Griffiths
The PN of the output amplifier in the thunderbolt will limit the PN nois of the 10Mhz output to a value significantly higher than the actual PN at the output of a low PN OCXO. Bruce > On 21 June 2018 at 09:26 Attila Kinali wrote: > > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 14:27:35 + > Ethan Waldo

Re: [time-nuts] Question about effect of spurious frequency modulation on Allan Deviation

2018-08-06 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Surely all that's required is a simplistic worst case analysis. Just assume that the value of Tau is always the worst possible so the full effect of the modulation is always seen. If the worst case phase modulation is say phi then the worst case ADEV (Tau) will be proportional to phi*T/Tau

Re: [time-nuts] TNS-BUF update

2018-08-19 Thread Bruce Griffiths
There are some NIR sensitive photodiodes that take advantage of the NIR transparency of some black epoxies. Bruce > On 20 August 2018 at 02:48 Dana Whitlow wrote: > > > Be watchful about the black epoxy. It may just be a dyed (otherwise > clear) epoxy, > and some of the black dyes in common

Re: [time-nuts] TNS-BUF update

2018-08-19 Thread Bruce Griffiths
LED noise and its quality / aging degradation. http://przyrbwn.icm.edu.pl/APP/PDF/119/a119z4p10.pdf Bruce > On 20 August 2018 at 03:42 Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: > > > > > Am 19.08.2018 um 14:43 schrieb Bruce Griffiths: > > Yes, I looked at the plots and I see

Re: [time-nuts] TNS-BUF update

2018-08-19 Thread Bruce Griffiths
take a look at the plots, did you? > > It is seldom to find these data taken all in an identical setup. > > > Am 19.08.2018 um 14:07 schrieb Bruce Griffiths: > > The LT3042 is still inherently very noisy at ultra low frequencies > > approaching and below th

Re: [time-nuts] Lars GPSDO on EEVblog

2018-09-08 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Use the phase detector output to drive the tristate control input of a fast CMOS tristate state buffer (eg 74HC126 or faster) which in turn drives the RC network eliminating the diode. Then correct for the exponential charging characteristics using the micro. For best results increase ADC

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz -> 16 MHz

2018-09-30 Thread Bruce Griffiths
A low phase noise method is to use a dual conjugate regenerative divider with 6MHz and 16Mhz bandpass filters in the feedback loop to produce 16Mhz output. For 12MHz output use 2MHz and 12MHz bandpass filters in the feedback loop. Bruce > On 01 October 2018 at 09:05 Bob kb8tq wrote: > > >

Re: [time-nuts] 10 MHz -> 16 MHz

2018-10-03 Thread Bruce Griffiths
-2 regen dividers (both worked very well) but > nothing else. > > -Brian > > > > On Sep 30, 2018, at 4:25 PM, Bruce Griffiths > > wrote: > > > > A low phase noise method is to use a dual conjugate regenerative divider > > with 6MHz and 16Mhz b

Re: [time-nuts] HP Stories: Frequency Counter business decline, Modulation Domain Analyzers, geeks as models

2019-01-21 Thread Bruce Griffiths
https://www.arl.wustl.edu/~jst/cse/260/glitchChaney.pdf suggests metastability was noticed in the 1940's but not taken seriously for decades thereafter. Bruce > On 21 January 2019 at 19:10 Hal Murray wrote: > > > > When did people designing counter/timers start paying attention to >

Re: [time-nuts] Minicircuits SYPD-1

2018-12-19 Thread Bruce Griffiths
NIST used off the shelf RF transformers in their mixers based on diode connected (collector connected directly to base) 2N. The transformer impedance ratios (!:5 IIRC) are specified in the papers on the mixer performance. Suitable transformers are made by Minicircuits and others. Bruce

Re: [time-nuts] Absolute time accuracy pre-Cesium?

2019-03-25 Thread Bruce Griffiths
John http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1968JRASC..62..205T indicates a timing accuracy of a few milliseconds was typical for the Calgary PZT. Bruce > On 26 March 2019 at 11:44 John Ackermann N8UR wrote: > > > Does anyone have a pointer to information about the absolute time > accuracy (not

Re: [time-nuts] Absolute time accuracy pre-Cesium?

2019-03-25 Thread Bruce Griffiths
:15 Bruce Griffiths wrote: > > > John > http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1968JRASC..62..205T > indicates a timing accuracy of a few milliseconds was typical for the Calgary > PZT. > > Bruce > > On 26 March 2019 at 11:44 John Ackermann N8UR wrote: > &g

Re: [time-nuts] reply re Harrison's timing method - #13 in Vol 176, Issue 44 digest

2019-03-27 Thread Bruce Griffiths
rch 2019 at 17:41 Bruce Griffiths wrote: > > > These light curves for a star being occulted by the moon should give some > idea of the effects of diffraction: > > http://tdc-www.harvard.edu/occultations/moon/vb141occa.html > > Bruce > > On 27 March

Re: [time-nuts] reply re Harrison's timing method - #13 in Vol 176, Issue 44 digest

2019-03-28 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Brooke Yes but the accuracy would suffer due to observer related effects. However when used with a CCD camera or equivalent the accuracy should improve somewhat much as adding a TV camera to a transit circle improved its accuracy. I had a personal tour of the USNO setup on Black-

Re: [time-nuts] reply re Harrison's timing method - #13 in Vol 176, Issue 44 digest

2019-03-28 Thread Bruce Griffiths
In principle one could time tag each individual photon with subnanosecond resolution. Bruce > On 29 March 2019 at 09:00 Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > In message <236772484.9174006.1553757616...@webmail.xtra.co.nz>, Bruce > Griffith > s writes: > > >However when used with a CCD

Re: [time-nuts] reply re Harrison's timing method - #13 in Vol 176, Issue 44 digest

2019-03-26 Thread Bruce Griffiths
The Danjon impersonal astrolabe is perhaps better suited to accurate measurements: https://www.nzmuseums.co.nz/collections/3267/objects/3380/astrolabe Bruce > On 27 March 2019 at 15:48 Tom Van Baak wrote: > > > BobH wrote: > >> This would be an excellent project for time-nuts to verify.

Re: [time-nuts] reply re Harrison's timing method - #13 in Vol 176, Issue 44 digest

2019-03-26 Thread Bruce Griffiths
These light curves for a star being occulted by the moon should give some idea of the effects of diffraction: http://tdc-www.harvard.edu/occultations/moon/vb141occa.html Bruce > On 27 March 2019 at 15:48 Tom Van Baak wrote: > > > BobH wrote: > >> This would be an excellent project for

Re: [time-nuts] Smaller, and smaller antennas

2019-03-06 Thread Bruce Griffiths
2.4/0.1 = 24 not 240 !!! Bruce > On 06 March 2019 at 17:36 jimlux wrote: > > > On 3/5/19 3:05 PM, Charles Steinmetz wrote: > > Ho, hum, yet another fantastical claim for magical gain from a > > tiny-for-wavelength antenna. > > > > See the many discussions of same by Kurt N. Sterba over the

Re: [time-nuts] GN-GGB0710 GPS Antenna Mounting Thread

2019-02-22 Thread Bruce Griffiths
3/8" (nominal bore) NPT thread has an outer diameter near 5/8" and has 18 threads/inch somewhat finer than the 5/8 11 TPI used for most surveying antennae Bruce > On 23 February 2019 at 11:06 David Witten wrote: > > > FWIW > > I just poked around my shop and found something that fit

Re: [time-nuts] GN-GGB0710 GPS Antenna Mounting Thread

2019-02-14 Thread Bruce Griffiths
NPT or BSPT pipe thread perhaps? Bruce > On 15 February 2019 at 14:08 Bob kb8tq wrote: > > > Hi > > Indeed for an antenna that is going on a mount one time and one time only a > “tapered” thread > might make sense. Crank it down and it locks in place ….. > > Bob > > > On Feb 14, 2019, at

Re: [time-nuts] HP Stories: Battery Chargers, and a fading idolization of HP

2019-02-10 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Mica is a sheet silicate mineral little or no carbon present. Bruce > On 11 February 2019 at 11:15 Bob Bownes wrote: > > > > > > Yes, those brown roughly 1" square caps used intact sheets of mica as > > dielectric. You can easily split the mineral into uniform, thin, > > transparent sheets.

Re: [time-nuts] generalization of three cornered hat

2019-06-15 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Try: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235103340_Estimating_Frequency_Stability_and_Cross-Correlations Bruce > On 16 June 2019 at 10:54 jimlux wrote: > > > I found a lot of references to estimating the uncertainties in > measurements derived with three cornered hat. What about for

Re: [time-nuts] Query about NRL Canvas source?

2019-04-27 Thread Bruce Griffiths
CANVAS is apparently northern hemisphere specific. I just asked and was allowed to download CANVAS including source code Bruce > On 28 April 2019 at 01:21 Bob kb8tq wrote: > > > Hi > > Just to confirm - it seems to be broken from here as well. > > Bob > > > On Apr 27, 2019, at 7:31 AM,

Re: [time-nuts] Rubidium Cells for Sale ?!

2019-05-06 Thread Bruce Griffiths
As expected the seller doesn't know, but offered 2 cells for the price of one if further info on the cells he's offering can be provided. Determining the cell filling would likely be somewhat interesting/challenging. Absorption spectroscopy using a tunable ECDL comes to mind to sort out the

Re: [time-nuts] Rubidium Cells for Sale ?!

2019-05-06 Thread Bruce Griffiths
I asked the seller which cell. We'll see what the response is. If its filled with RB87 and buffer gas it may be usable with a suitably tuned ECDL locked to the correct line. Bruce > On 06 May 2019 at 14:04 Bob kb8tq wrote: > > > Hi > > I’m sure they are good cells. The gotcha is “which one is

Re: [time-nuts] Using the LT3042

2019-07-10 Thread Bruce Griffiths
or lower cutoff frequencies are usually impractical. Bruce > On 10 July 2019 at 22:58 Gerhard Hoffmann wrote: > > > > Am 10.07.19 um 11:27 schrieb Bruce Griffiths: > > Like virtually all low dropout regulator ICs the LT3042 is quite noisy at > > frequencies below it

Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 180, Issue 22

2019-07-12 Thread Bruce Griffiths
The HP Journal article (page 20 March 1981 issue) on the 10811A agrees with Bob. It also points out that the lack of activity dips due to coupled modes and a much smaller dependence of the frequency on the signal level are advantages of the SC cut compared to the AT and BT cuts. Bruce > On 13

Re: [time-nuts] High accuracy temp controller ckt

2019-07-12 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Figure 5 in http://www.wenzel.com/wp-content/uploads/Sub-pico-Multiplier.pdf ?? Bruce > On 13 July 2019 at 05:23 Bob kb8tq wrote: > > > Hi > > If you do go the TEC route, plan on a fairly big power source :). There is a > Wenzel doc on doing a TEC based enclosure using a couple of die cast >

Re: [time-nuts] Neat looking DMTD unit on eBay

2019-04-22 Thread Bruce Griffiths
The mention of deglitching after the mixers perhaps indicates that the mixers may be flipflops and that the device is perhaps a DDMTD. Alternatively the block diagram is intentionally misleading. Bruce > On 23 April 2019 at 03:11 cdel...@juno.com wrote: > > > Hi, > > A friend directed me

Re: [time-nuts] TAPR TIC Upgrade?

2019-08-14 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Probably only worth the effort if one were considering a higher resolution device intended to surpass that of the venerable HP5370A/B or equivalent. Doable with off the TDC shelf parts but is there any demand? Bruce > On 15 August 2019 at 11:18 John Ackermann N8UR wrote: > > > In theory,

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-30 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Actually the leakage of at least some standard electrolytic capacitors can be quite low if one waits long enough. I've seen a leakage as small as a few nanoamps after several minutes at room temperature with randomly selected 100uF capacitors. Bruce > On 30 August 2019 at 18:53 ed breya

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-29 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Am 26.08.19 um 04:47 schrieb Bruce Griffiths: > > I've only used an ultra low esr 33F supercap made in Korea in the source > > circuit of the input JFET on a preamp. > > Down to 10Hz at least it didn't appear to add significant noise to the > > 4nV/rtHz @10Hz preamp. &g

Re: [time-nuts] Building a DMTD/phase noise set in the 21st century

2019-08-25 Thread Bruce Griffiths
I've only used an ultra low esr 33F supercap made in Korea in the source circuit of the input JFET on a preamp. Down to 10Hz at least it didn't appear to add significant noise to the 4nV/rtHz @10Hz preamp. Bruce > On 26 August 2019 at 13:52 Didier Juges wrote: > > > How do SuperCaps compare

Re: [time-nuts] Keysight N5511A - phase noise measurements down to theoretical-177 dBm/Hz

2019-08-21 Thread Bruce Griffiths
That should have been: Its only necessary (as NIST have shown) to cool the splitters to reduce the correlated or anti-correlated thermal noise between splitter outputs. Everything else can run at ambient temperature. Bruce > On 21 August 2019 at 21:13 Bruce Griffiths wrote: > > &

Re: [time-nuts] Keysight N5511A - phase noise measurements down to theoretical-177 dBm/Hz

2019-08-21 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Its only necessary (as NIST have shown) to cool the splitters to reduce the correlated or anti-correlated noise between the outputs. Everything else can run at ambient temperature. Bruce > On 21 August 2019 at 18:49 ed breya wrote: > > > That's quite an impressive system. I guess it's a few

Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Keysight N5511A - phase noise measurements down to theoretical-177 dBm/Hz

2019-08-23 Thread Bruce Griffiths
With hot and cold noise sources perhaps? Bruce > On 24 August 2019 at 07:07 Perry Sandeen via time-nuts > wrote: > > > Gentlemen, > A question for my curiosity and education.  Traditionally, the standard was > 10X better than what was being calibrated. > > Since this is at the theoretical

Re: [time-nuts] 5 Mhz to 10 Mhz and 25 Mhz

2019-09-08 Thread Bruce Griffiths
A frequency doubler and a frequency quintupler will be needed. Options for the quintupler: 1) Convert to square wave and isolate the desired 25MHz output using filters. A bandpass filter is a poor choice if high phase stability is required. A high pass filter supplemented with series tuned

Re: [time-nuts] 15Mhz in 10MHz out?

2019-09-18 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Dual JK flipflop configured as divide by 3 producing a 33% duty cycle 5MHz output which is filtered to extract the 10MHz second harmonic component. Bruce > On 18 September 2019 at 21:08 "David C. Partridge" > wrote: > > > Having seen the recent discussion of the NB3N502 and other PLLs for >

Re: [time-nuts] atomic/chemical THz sampler

2019-07-28 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Electro-optic samplers are about the closest but they typically transform from time to spatial domain and have multibit resolution. The storage isnt atomic but in an image sensor attached to a spectroscometer. http://beamdocs.fnal.gov/AD/DocDB/0025/002555/001/eos1.pdf Bruce > On 28 July 2019

Re: [time-nuts] Frequency Stability Analyzer - ZCDs

2019-07-27 Thread Bruce Griffiths
The LTC6957 is a better choice for squaring up sinewaves: http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=phase-noise-and-other-measurements-with-a-timepod CERN amongst others use it. The pin programmable filtering allows its bandwidth to be optimised to suit the input signal frequency and amplitude.

Re: [time-nuts] Using the LT3042

2019-07-10 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Like virtually all low dropout regulator ICs the LT3042 is quite noisy at frequencies below its reference low pass filter high frequency cutoff. Some zener based references are considerably quieter in this region. Bruce > On 10 July 2019 at 18:18 Perry Sandeen via time-nuts > wrote: > >

Re: [time-nuts] A simple sampling DMTD

2019-11-04 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Merely selecting every 100th sample throws away the opportunity to reduce the effective ADC noise by digital filtering before decimation. Bruce > On 05 November 2019 at 10:08 Jan-Derk Bakker wrote: > > > Dear Scott, > > You are entirely correct, sampling at 100ksps is mathematically the same

Re: [time-nuts] Phase Detectors/Mixers for DMTD and PN measurements

2019-12-11 Thread Bruce Griffiths
There are a number of NIST papers on this: https://tf.nist.gov/general/publications.htm You can also simulate the effect of a capacitive IF port load. However a capacitive load can also degrade the isolation and RF and LO port mismatch. One can also use diode connected BJTs instead if lower

Re: [time-nuts] Phase Detectors/Mixers for DMTD and PN measurements

2019-12-11 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Cross Correlation methods are commonly used with analog mixers. Most of the high end commercial offerings use it (Holzworth, Anapico, Rhohde & Schwarz, etc.) Bruce > On 12 December 2019 at 18:53 Gerhard Hoffmann > wrote: > > > It seems the mixer noise cannot be ignored. > > > I wonder then 

Re: [time-nuts] Question for my new GPSDO

2019-10-15 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Consistency of the glitch independent of DAC output is more important than its size. A constant amplitude glitch occurring at the dac update rate is more benign in its effect than a glitch whose amplitude varies with DAC output. Brruce > On 16 October 2019 at 08:02 Attila Kinali wrote: > > >

Re: [time-nuts] 10MHz dist amps

2019-10-23 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Its measured noise floor is consistent with that expected from the noise specifications for the opamps employed. Bruce > On 24 October 2019 at 08:46 Tom Knox wrote: > > > Hi John; > Amazing product, I did not realize you could use the TADD-1 for 100MHz > distribution. > I do have a

Re: [time-nuts] Question for my new GPSDO

2019-10-16 Thread Bruce Griffiths
If the DAC update rate isn't excessive a 2nV-sec glitch is unlikely to produce a significant perturbation at the output of the lowpass filter following the DAC. Bruce > On 16 October 2019 at 21:01 Attila Kinali wrote: > > > On Wed, 16 Oct 2019 15:04:31 +1300 (NZDT) > Bruce G

Re: [time-nuts] Question for my new GPSDO

2019-10-07 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Detecting the steep drop in oven heater current when the temperature regulator loop assumes control shouldn't require an extremely low tempco sensing resistor. In principle PWM DACs can offer high resolution at relatively low cost, one tradeoff being the settling time of the low pass filter

Re: [time-nuts] Question for my new GPSDO

2019-10-08 Thread Bruce Griffiths
e I think I am fine with a DAC8501 or DAC8560, which are both based on a > resistor string, and therefore are also monotonic by design. > > Tobias > > > From: time-nuts [time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] on behalf of Bruce > Griffiths [b

Re: [time-nuts] What is the BEST crystal?

2020-02-29 Thread Bruce Griffiths
IIRC Tolansky obtained some interferograms illustrating the surface deflections of these acoustic resonators. I'll unearth my copy of Tolansky's book on optical interferometry and check. Bruce > On 01 March 2020 at 13:41 "John Moran, Scawby Design" > wrote: > > > Wow, that provoked an

Re: [time-nuts] What is the BEST crystal?

2020-02-29 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Interferogram showing vibration nodes etc for quartz ring resonator frequency standard attached. Bruce > On 01 March 2020 at 14:27 Bob kb8tq wrote: > > > Hi > > It’s also the size of the 2.5 MHz 5th’s and similar parts made “way back”. > They went into glass packages > the size of door

Re: [time-nuts] What is the BEST crystal?

2020-03-01 Thread Bruce Griffiths
hic interferometry, mostly related to > identifying > resonances and vibratory modes of blades on jet turbine rotors, and it's > hard to > break the habit of trying to interpret interference patters. > > Dana > > > On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 7:34 PM Bruce Griffiths >

Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

2020-02-28 Thread Bruce Griffiths
That's not relevant. The idea is to see what frequency the crystal oscillates at not to build a high stability oscillator. If can be made to oscillate at a frequency somewhere around 5MHz/3 then its likely a third overtone crystal. Bruce > On 28 February 2020 at 23:34 Attila Kinali wrote: > >

Re: [time-nuts] Pressure sensitivity of Rb vapor cell standards

2020-02-18 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Magnus You need a linear polariser plus a quarter waveplate to produce circularly polarised light from unpolarised light. A quarter waveplate alone wont suffice. So called circular polarisers used with modern digital cameras comprise a polariser with the linear polariser oriented correctly

Re: [time-nuts] Pressure sensitivity of Rb vapor cell standards

2020-02-19 Thread Bruce Griffiths
The wavelength of a laser diode can be tuned by varying its temperature and/or bias current. Mode hopping during tuning can be an issue with standard FP laser diodes. Single transverse and longitudinal mode operation is also desirable. The laser wavelength has to be within a few picometers of the

Re: [time-nuts] low phase noise, noise floor and noise figure amplifier at 400MHz

2020-01-10 Thread Bruce Griffiths
behind the option-K22 amplifiers that > > were sold by HP for use with the 3048A. I've got one of those but I needed > > a couple more of them at one point, so I built some (literally) quick and > > dirty copies with BFG591 transistors with good results. > > > > I've m

Re: [time-nuts] Norton amplifiers

2020-01-13 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Simulation indicates that the required C value depends on the transformer turns ratios and the RC product sets the notch frequency. Large signal modulation of the transistor parameters results in a distorted signal at the base when a large signal is applied to the output. the RC product is

Re: [time-nuts] 1 pps Accuracy in two locations

2020-01-16 Thread Bruce Griffiths
PSOF fiber has a much lower tempco: https://accelconf.web.cern.ch/accelconf/p01/PAPERS/MPPH011.PDF Bruce > On 17 January 2020 at 00:08 Bruce Griffiths > wrote: > > > Except for some low tempco single mode fibers the delay tempco is on the > order of 10ppm/K: > https://li

Re: [time-nuts] 1 pps Accuracy in two locations

2020-01-16 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Except for some low tempco single mode fibers the delay tempco is on the order of 10ppm/K: https://library.nrao.edu/public/memos/edtn/EDTN_168.pdf Bruce > On 16 January 2020 at 23:29 Magnus Danielson wrote: > > > Hi, > > On 2020-01-15 23:34, Attila Kinali wrote: > > On Wed, 4 Dec 2019

Re: [time-nuts] low phase noise, noise floor and noise figure amplifier at 400MHz

2020-01-09 Thread Bruce Griffiths
That's not possible at room temperature since thermal noise will limit the residual PN to -180DbC/Hz with a noiseless amplifier and a +3dBm input. Bruce > On 10 January 2020 at 14:38 Lifespeed wrote: > > > Hi Time Nuts, > > > > I have a need for a low phase noise, noise floor and noise

Re: [time-nuts] Phase measurement of my GPSDO

2020-04-16 Thread Bruce Griffiths
An OP37 may not function well as a diode clamped limiter since the loop gain is <5 during limiting. A unity gain stable opamp would likely be better. Bruce > On 17 April 2020 at 09:26 Bob kb8tq wrote: > > > Hi > > The OP-37 is fine as long as the gain is over 5X. Under that gain level, you

Re: [time-nuts] Noise Floor

2020-03-26 Thread Bruce Griffiths
The PN floor is somewhat lower with a 15dBm rather than a 4dBm input http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=phase-noise-and-other-measurements-with-a-timepod Bruce > On 27 March 2020 at 06:11 kb...@n1k.org mailto:kb...@n1k.org wrote: > > > Hi > > Ok so here's a "new" part as

Re: [time-nuts] Crystal filters in test equipment

2020-03-26 Thread Bruce Griffiths
A constant temperature oven for the crystal filter may be required to minimise the crystal filter phase shift tempco contribution to the output phase stability. Bruce > On 27 March 2020 at 11:03 Perry Sandeen via time-nuts > wrote: > > > Learned Gentlemen, > Both the HP 106 and 107 have a

Re: [time-nuts] Phase measurement of my GPSDO

2020-04-03 Thread Bruce Griffiths
One can merely add diodes to the opamp feedback network form a feedback limiter and maintain the opamp outputs within the range for which the opamp is well behaved whilst maintaining the increase in slew rate for the output. Bruce > On 04 April 2020 at 04:26 Tobias Pluess wrote: > > > Jup,

Re: [time-nuts] Phase measurement of my GPSDO

2020-04-03 Thread Bruce Griffiths
phase noise > measurement) and which ones should be used as actual mixers (like in this > case). > > > Tobias > HB9FSX > > On Fri., 3 Apr. 2020, 23:09 Bruce Griffiths, > wrote: > > > One can merely add diodes to the opamp feedback network form a feedback > &g

Re: [time-nuts] Phase measurement of my GPSDO

2020-04-03 Thread Bruce Griffiths
e RPD vs. TUF mixers - what is the actual property which makes > the RPD "better" than the TUF? > > Thanks, > Tobias > > On Sat., 4 Apr. 2020, 02:01 Bruce Griffiths, > wrote: > > > Tobias > > > > That would certainly work for a start and

Re: [time-nuts] f-multipliers from VHF to 10 GHz

2020-05-15 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Macom also do NLTL comb generators which are much quieter than SRDs: https://www.macom.com/products/product-detail/MLPNC-7100-SMA850 Bruce > On 16 May 2020 at 09:14 Gerhard Hoffmann > wrote: > > > No, no, no, it's not that bad :-)  I should not post here in the middle > of the night. Sorry

Re: [time-nuts] f-multipliers from VHF to 10 GHz

2020-05-15 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Indicative price: https://www.richardsonrfpd.com/Products/Product/MLPNC-7103-SMT6 Bruce > On 16 May 2020 at 10:54 ed breya wrote: > > > Bruce wrote > > Macom also do NLTL comb generators which are much quieter than SRDs: > https://www.macom.com/products/product-detail/MLPNC-7100-SMA850 > >

Re: [time-nuts] HP-10811AB-OCXO interface questions

2020-09-02 Thread Bruce Griffiths
For sine to square wave conversion use LTC6957 (select variant to suit following logic). Bruce > On 02 September 2020 at 17:24 Manfred Bartz mailto:vk3...@gmail.com > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I bought 2 x 10811 OCXOs for a 10MHz GPSDO project I am working on. > The OCXOs came

Re: [time-nuts] Some FTS1000 questions

2020-09-10 Thread Bruce Griffiths
You could use either the NIST CG JFET doubler or its bipolar CB equivalent. Bruce > On 11 September 2020 at 08:43 Tobias Pluess wrote: > > > Dear colleagues > > I recently got a FTS1000 oscillator. (Not FTS1000A or B, but just FTS1000, > I assume it is the first version). It is a very nice

Re: [time-nuts] What do people use for meassuring temperature?

2020-09-27 Thread Bruce Griffiths
undation. > John Ponsonby > > > Do we know what this ?Long Term Aging Process? is or is it proprietary? > > > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 5:03 PM Bruce Griffiths <mailto:bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz>> > wrote: > > > Drift ~1-2mK per year for su

Re: [time-nuts] What do people use for measuring temperature?

2020-09-26 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Drift ~1-2mK per year for suitably conditioned thermistors at 25C: https://www.littelfuse.com/technical-resources/technical-centers/temperature-sensors/thermistor-info/thermistor-terminology/stability.aspx Bruce > On 27 September 2020 at 11:15 Bob kb8tq wrote: > > > Hi > > Roughly speaking

Re: [time-nuts] What do people use for measuring temperature?

2020-09-28 Thread Bruce Griffiths
If one does a ratiometric measurement comparing the voltage drop across the RTD with the voltage drop across a stable low Tc resistor connected in series with the RTD the excitation source only needs to be quiet with good short term stability. Bruce > On 29 September 2020 at 07:48 "John

Re: [time-nuts] "The Penultimate HP5065 A15"

2020-08-03 Thread Bruce Griffiths
> On 04 August 2020 at 10:32 Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > > > Attila Kinali writes: > > >> The main reason I dont just repair/replace the A15 is that > >> I want to find out how much instability the PSU contributes. > > > >There are very few points where supply voltage

Re: [time-nuts] low power divide by 5

2020-07-02 Thread Bruce Griffiths
For fixed frequency operation there's always Wenzel's divider using a D FF with LC feedback: http://www.wenzel.com/wp-content/uploads/dividers.pdf At least the power consumption is low. Bruce > On 03 July 2020 at 12:35 Bob kb8tq wrote: > > > Hi > > > On Jul 2, 2020, at 6:38 PM, jimlux

Re: [time-nuts] low power divide by 5

2020-07-03 Thread Bruce Griffiths
When simulating the Wenzel divider its important to include the input protection diodes or the input signal at the D input of the FF becomes unrealistically large even with a finite Q inductor. Bruce > On 03 July 2020 at 20:18 glenlist wrote: > > > Bravo Microchip for extending the ECL

Re: [time-nuts] Trigger circuit for TIC

2020-06-03 Thread Bruce Griffiths
There is no universal circuit that minimises jitter for all signals without some tuning to suit the input frequency and threshold crossing slew rate. The LTC6957 works well for higher frequency sine waves. The low frequency sine wave outputs of a DMTD require a set of cascaded lowpass filtered

Re: [time-nuts] Coherent optical clock down-conversion for microwave frequencies with 10^−18 instability

2020-06-04 Thread Bruce Griffiths
https://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/3093.pdf is likely more accessible than the sciencemag link Bruce > On 05 June 2020 at 11:15 Bill Byrom wrote: > > > This was published in the 22 May 2020 issue of Science (AAAS journal). For > AAAS members, the direct link is: >

Re: [time-nuts] Coherent optical clock down-conversion for microwave frequencies with 10^−18 instability

2020-06-04 Thread Bruce Griffiths
ote: > > > Thanks, Bruce! That's a copy of that same Science article. I guess that NIST > got permission to post it on their website, since they were the sponsor of > the study. > -- > Bill N5BB > > > On Thu, Jun 4, 2020, at 6:32 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote: > > h

Re: [time-nuts] Holiday Hydrogen Glow!

2020-12-25 Thread Bruce Griffiths
The Hydrogen plasma emission is dominated in the visible dominated by Halpha emission at 656.3 nm. Other Balmer series lines will also be present. Bruce > On 26 December 2020 at 09:12 Magnus Danielson wrote: > > > Dana, > > The glow is a side-effect of the plasma. The primary use in H-maser

Re: [time-nuts] SMPS or conventional?

2020-12-21 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Original source about TEC lifetime reduction when the TEC ripple cureent is high: https://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1991-02.pdf Page 74 I suspect that someone there may have been bitten by the short TEC life experienced without the LC filter. Although they used relatively small

Re: [time-nuts] TECs in cooling below ambient

2020-12-23 Thread Bruce Griffiths
You could always use a TEC as the heart of a dewpoint sensor by optically sensing the temperature required for dew to form on a cooled mirror. In practice the temperature at which the dew vanishes is typically used. A collimated light beam together with a photodiode is typically used to sense

Re: [time-nuts] TECs in cooling below ambient

2020-12-23 Thread Bruce Griffiths
this complication when I was working with > this thing, > however, or I would have asked. Oh, well, an opportunity missed. Sigh! > > Dana > > > On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 6:53 PM Bruce Griffiths > wrote: > > > You could always use a TEC as the heart o

Re: [time-nuts] Flicker Noise Reduction

2020-11-18 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Its just another variation on the principle of the Dicke radiometer. In their case the amplifier input device is turned off periodically by modulating its gate bias. https://www.engr.colostate.edu/ece/faculty/reising/pdf/journals/Ogut_et_al_T-TST_2020.pdf Bruce > On 19 November 2020 at 12:38

Re: [time-nuts] Flicker Noise Reduction

2020-11-18 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Attached is the block diagram of the receiver in essence an amplifier for which the effective input is gated/chopped on and off by turning the amplifier input FET on and off. Bruce > On 19 November 2020 at 16:15 "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" > wrote: > > > > On 11/18/2020 5:27 PM, jimlux

Re: [time-nuts] OCXO housings - Why copper and not iron/steel?

2020-10-30 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Not true The Wiedemann-Franz gives the ratio of the thermal conductivity to electrical conductivity of a metal: ( pi^2 / 3 ) * ( (k/e)^2 ) * T Bruce > On 31 October 2020 at 12:49 "Dr. David Kirkby" > wrote: > > > On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 at 22:17, Luiz Alberto Saba wrote: > > > My bad...

Re: [time-nuts] SMPS or conventional?

2020-10-22 Thread Bruce Griffiths
If the drive current ripple is too high fatigue failure from cyclic thermomechanical stress can be significant. Bruce > On 23 October 2020 at 10:37 ed breya wrote: > > > Regarding TEC life, in my experience, what wrecks them the most is > cooling applications where the cold side is below the

[time-nuts] Re: Best frequency to start for GHz synth ?

2021-04-01 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Poseidon Scientific Instruments (acquired by Raytheon) make a room temperature 10.24GHz Sapphire loaded cavity oscillator with a low PN floor: https://www.rdi.uwa.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0012/3447669/Raytheon-TechnologyToday-20141-Extract.pdf Bruce > On 02 April 2021 at 05:06 Chris Caudle

[time-nuts] Re: Best frequency to start for GHz synth ?

2021-04-02 Thread Bruce Griffiths
The oscillator circuit consists of an SSM2210 supermatch npn pair configured as a long-tailed differential pair with a 12mA tail current and 51 ohm collector loads. One output feeds the output buffer whilst the other provides feedback to the crystal via an LC network that is series resonant at

[time-nuts] Re: Best frequency to start for GHz synth ?

2021-03-31 Thread Bruce Griffiths
An interferogram showing the nodes etc. of such a resonating quartz crystal ring was posted by me in either February or March 2020. Bruce > On 01 April 2021 at 15:16 Bob kb8tq wrote: > > > Hi > > Some of the early 100 KHz resonators were ring shaped. The British really > pioneered > this

Re: [time-nuts] clocks for amateur radio and astronomy (was: World's most precise.... wall clock)

2021-03-10 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Unless something akin to VLBI or pulsar timing is involved millisecond accuracy will usually suffice for amateur astronomy. Bruce > On 11 March 2021 at 06:31 Bob kb8tq wrote: > > > Hi > > > On Mar 10, 2021, at 12:17 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: > > > > On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 06:39:46 -0800 > >

[time-nuts] Re: Derivation of time from celestial sight

2021-12-28 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Surely Polaris is a spectacularly poor choice for obtaining accurate Sidereal time via a meridian transit of a known star? A theodolite suited to high altitude observations like the Wild T4 was is desirable. Otherwise a prism and a mercury mirror 9or equivalent) can be used to covert a

[time-nuts] Re: Derivation of time from celestial sight

2021-12-28 Thread Bruce Griffiths
The Danjon astrolabe typically achieved a timing precision of around 25millisec or so. Manually timing transits with a stopwatch will be better than a second but somewhat worse than the Danjon astrolabe. Bruce > On 28/12/2021 22:42 David Taylor via time-nuts > wrote: > > > On 27/12/2021

[time-nuts] Re: E1938A phase noise improvement

2021-12-25 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Was it related to the cause of the hump in the PN plot vs offset frequency that the E1938A exhibits? Bruce > On 26/12/2021 17:56 Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: > > > I'm sure I said that ... a long time ago. I can't remember now what the > fix was, but I am fairly sure it would only apply

[time-nuts] Re: PICDIV stability (was: Crystal oscillator for a begginer)

2022-01-08 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Yes, that post is full of misleading information. The TI document is irrelevant as the PIC based divider doesn't have non harmonically related signals using the same chip. All internal signals within the PIC are harmonics of the divided output signal. The post did not distinguish between random

[time-nuts] Re: PICDIV stability

2022-01-07 Thread Bruce Griffiths
ghtly longer when 2 > > outputs switch when compared to when only one is switching. > > > > Has anybody measured that on a PIC? (or similar chip) > > > > I think one of tvb's picDEVs has several outputs. > > > > On 1/7/2022 5:00 PM, Bruce Griffiths wrote: >

[time-nuts] Re: PICDIV stability (was: Crystal oscillator for a begginer)

2022-01-07 Thread Bruce Griffiths
That entire thread is full of misinformation and should be ignored unless one understands the difference between random and data dependent jitter. For a well designed divider with a single output frequency only the random jitter spec is significant. One doesn't need a bunch of expensive

[time-nuts] Re: Microcontroller based frequency divider

2022-04-30 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Modern CPLDs often have an internal state machine that configures the chip on power up. Not all of these shutdown the internal state machine clock after configuration is complete. Crosstalk from the internal clock/oscillator will modulate the output of a divider. IIRC the Coolrunner II chips

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