The symbolism answers is all over the internet. It's silly to me. Not a problem finding out Mormon "secrets".
My question is, does one lose his/her salvation if they wear "Christian" underwear instead of "Mormon" underwear?
Blainer) Do you enjoy talking about underwear? OK, let's talk about
Glenn to Blainer - How is saying the Bible is a tool of Satan lengthening my stride? Give me a straight answer like you did for women being lost without God for removing their Mormon undergarments permanently.
Blainer) You have to be flexible enough in your thinking to realize that
men--not
Glenn - Heaven
Blainer) so where do YOU think your child went??
On Fri, 9 Aug 2002 23:50:27 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If you don't know if you would have gone to hell but you do
know you
could not enter God's kingdom, what are you saying?
To me, if you can't enter God's kingdom, there
I would still like to know about the Mormon boss saying Mormons worship a different Jesus. I don't wish to disrespect you, but I find it strange you act like you have never heard this before I brought it up. Especially since Jeff jumped in and said he knew it.
DAVEH: I again respectfully
Glenn - I'm sure you can find what the CEO believes about a different Jesus. I don't know what he meant.
DAVEH: Then why do you castigate me for wanting to read his comments
again before I speculate as to what he meant?
Glenn again - Because I am sure you can find out what he meant.
I have told you many times. Christians believe the Bible to be literal unless it is impossible to take it literal. God is not an idiot.
No
DAVEH: If they aren't symbolic, then do you believe in a literal hanging (swinging?) gate that unrepentant sinners will pass through before they are tossed
I am of the opinion-after research- that the God of the Muslims is the Moon God whom is Biblically shown to be satan.Far more than just a Trinity problem here.
---BeginMessage---
I am of the opinion-after research- that the God of the Muslims is the Moon God whom is Biblically shown to be
I don't think I can remember if I did.
Did you ever hear or read his comments on polygamy among the Mormons?
On Sun, 8 Sep 2002 22:52:31 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Mark Twain died on the side of the majority, just like he lived.
" Whenever you find yourself on the side of the
Glenn - What you are overlooking is the fact that this additional "revelation" has not united Christians on doctrine. In fact, it has divided Christians even more. It has even divided Mormons. For a person not to be able to see this simple truth can be explained in only two ways.
1. Brainwashing
Glenn - Nothing that I can recall.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes
DAVEH: Then what is there (in the Bible or Protestant doctrines) that would suggest he doesn't have a resurrected physical body now? Do you not associate a physical body of flesh and bones with his resurrected body?
Glenn - According to the material posted on TT, we are part of an apostate chuch. Therefore, that doesn't leave us on God's side.
DAVEH: I don't know about the CofC on this, Glennyou are the expert here. However, you are dead wrong in suggesting that LDS folks don't think there are
NO ONE needs the BoM. I covered these topics in the pastorate very nicely WITHOUT brainwashing or demonic influence.
Blainer) Again, I am sorry to interrupt, but the example given by DaveH
is right on. This is one example--an excellent example--of what the BoM
is saying regards missing
Glenn - Here's the problem DaveL. Jesus NEVER said NOT to baptize children. If the Bible is silent on a subject then God doesn't care if we do or we do not. Mormons adding to the Bible is not different than a preacher adding to the Bible when he speaks.
Simpler examples might be doctrines
No, because Mormons are divided within themselves. Their so called revelation did not fix things.
The proof is in the fruit. Mormon fruit is more division.
DAVEH: And.would not the missing doctrinal information explain why there are doctrinal differences today?
Since you don't listen to me, I thought I would repeat it.
DAVEH: LOL...Hey Glenn, you must be getting rummynow you are responding to your own posts!!! :-) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn again - The bottom line, I follow The Bible only, therefore according to Mormonism SATAN HAS
My life is not based on covenants. This is a grave error for Mormonism. I stand by what I say below. IT IS ENOUGH THAT JESUS DIED AND THAT HE DIED FOR ME.
When Mormons remove that silly looking angel or demon or whatever it is from the tops of their empires and replace it with a cross then we
It means my life is based on a relationship, talking with Christ.
How do you define covenants? It seems Mormonism is based on an organized structure instead of a talking relationship with Christ. Am I wrong?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My life is not based on covenants.
DAVEH: Sometimes I have
Glenn - Let's see the little groups I were a part of had about 5 million, 50 million of all the Baptists see it the way you do, without the BoM. Evangelical Christians by the millions upon millions believe in believers baptism. That is, one needs be old enough to believe to be baptized.
I
Every Christian denomination practices some form of baptism except Salvation Army, Quakers, and some little college in Michigan. I think a street preacher from out west was eluding them one time on TT. So, 99.9% of Christians believe in baptism.
This confusing stuff is exaggerated
Glenn - I'm sorry DaveL. But when you have accused me of this, and I have read what you accused me of, I find I have NOT assumed what you have said. You are the best at Mormon spin I have ever heard.
DAVEH: IF I start assuming you said something that you didn't (as Glenn has done to me),
Not missing at all, their in the footnotes.
Of course it is a possibility. The New International Version has parts
missing that the King James Version includes.
DAVEH: Oooops..be careful or you too will agitate Brother Glenn! VBG
DavdL - How do you explain the people in the Bible who were saved before baptism?
The idea that baptism is not necessary is clearly seen in Scripture. We
covered this before. It is not an assumption from Mark 16, but a conclusion
drawn from other passages of Scripture which show people being
Because you're into Joe Smith. You're into the Bible.
The way I read this then those who are dead simply perish Those who are
dead w/o Christ perish. No second chances to make a choice. How come I
don't get this get after death stuff? Laura
Answer: Spin machine.
Now I am the one confused why you are going back on your extrapolation when
it suits your cause.
I think I did. It is below. You're spinning the Mormon doctrine that I am under the influence of Satan because I follow the Bible only in iis present form. This spin machine is really something. The dummer American gets the more converts you will have to Joe Smith and his girls.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have no respect for this spin machine. Why can't Mormons just tell us what they believe? Answer: Converts
Men are not brought under the power of Satan because of any
alledged parts that have been removed from the Bible. The Book of Mormon is
wrong on this point.
"I respectfully disageee" I understand this to mean. I don't have an answer for you.
DAVEH:
I respectfully disagree.
Your response doesn't tell me much. Surely you are not just being stubborn
and refusing to hear my point, are you?
Glenn - I tell you what your Mormon materials teach. Then I sit back and watch the spin machine go into spinning and spinning and spinning. I have head over and over denials of Mormon doctrine. Two quick examples:
1. I am under the influence of Satan because I follow the current form of the Bible
Glenn - Again, I am under the Deceiver's influence because I have read the Bible in it's present porm from cover to cover maybe 15 times in almost as many translations.
Davel -But, they can subject themselves to the Deceiver's influence by reading too much into the Bible when it doesn't clarify
Glenn - NO, because the Bible is silent on the subject. Therefore God doesn't care if we do or do not baptize infants.
As far as ordaining women, the Bible is NOT silent on the subject. The Bible talks about Phillips two daughters who were preachers. So, the BoM is in disagreement with the Bible
The little boys here in Roanoke have not treated me with respect.
DAVEH: Hm..So you are going to preach to the LDS folks during Conference time. I hope they treat you with respect. I will be anxious to hear your report upon your return.
Glenn - It concerns me because I believe Mormonism is spinning their doctrines to make them sound more acceptable in order to trick people into their cult.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn - Again, this not what the Mormon verse says.
DAVEH: Why does that concern you, Glenn? It is what I said, in
Glenn - My dear friend, I like you, but you are brainwashed. All cults mix truth and lies in order to get converts.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn - THE ANSWER In order for Satan to get more followers into Mormonism,
DAVEH: Your "ANSWER" merely shows how little you know about LDS
Glenn - When the disrespect my wife, they disrespect me. Furthermore, they disrespected me because I refused to go to my door. They yelled and laughed to let me know I was home. Duh
Quite frankly, the previous Mormons I have met were kind, but these two in town now are a joke.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Glenn - I told you during our first conservations I was required to read it in college. Have you read every word of the Bible?
2. This is why I disrespect Mormonism. This spin. I was not born yesterday. Now, again, this is not personal. But Mormonism calls Jesus a liar on hell fire. Of course,
Some Chrsitians believe it is a parable. I do not.
1. It is not an earthly story with a heavenly meaning.
2. Notice how Jesus starts out his parables. This is different. This one says it is literal.
3. Jesus never named names in his parables.
Glenn - If I believed like Mormons there is no fire
Glenn - I'm not changing it. I'm believing it. Mormons don't believe it or even Jesus on the subject. Poor ole dumb Jesus couldn't even get it right. This is sick.
So Glenn, despite what you say you believe, it is obvious that a Protestant publication directly teaches the opposite. You
Glenn - What you quote is an opinion, not scripture. I could quote the opposite, but these publications are not Scripture. Christians do differ on this, but you are dead wrong on my changing it. I believe it, plus nothing, minus nothing.
Christianity teaches that it was a parable, and not an
Glenn - I don't do it because Jesus said little children were of the kingdom of God. But that is my opinion, not an "official" doctrine. CHRISTIANS ARE BROTHERS NOT TWIN BROTHERS.
AGAIN, you are arguing from the "silence of the Bible". If the Bible is silent on a subject God doesn't care about it
Glenn - You don't realize what your said. You just said the Bible is weak. Here is more knocking the Bible. Does believing Romans 1, without Mormons additions, bring me under the influence of Satan? According to Mormonism it does.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn - My friend, you are not
Glenn - The interpretation of the Bible from silence leaves one open to all kinds of false doctrines. This is a hermaneutic that leads to utter confusion. NO evangelical Christian I have ever known follows this silence stuff.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn - Here's the problem DaveL. Jesus
Glenn - Why would they stand out front and preach to the crowd unless they believed Franklin Graham and the people attending were lost without God? That is my point. If Mormons want us to accept them as Christians, then why won't Mormons participate in the Graham crusade? Why don't you call the
Glenn - Hey, DaveL. Blaine taught me about myself being greatly under the influence of Satan for following the Bible only in it's present form. He EVEN QUOTED MORMON "SCRIPTURE" FOR PROVE IT. EVER SINCE YOU BOTH HAVE BEEN RUNNING THE SPIN MACHING OVERTIME.
AM I, GLENN, UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF
Glenn - HA HA
DAVEH: Yep..they were working with a full deck. Our deck, even though expanded since then, is obviously lacking material they considered from God.
Glenn - If you consider me a brother in Christ, then you go against Mormonism which does not do so.
I don't know if you are a brother in Christ or not. I will leave that up to God. I will say, IF you don't worship the true Jesus Christ the Son of God, you are not my brother. If you have received
Glenn - I take this spin to mean...as long as it doesn't contradict Joe Smith.
DAVEH: As I have stated in the past, I believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.
Laura
Glenn - This is a great way to say it. We have more than the Bible to guide us. We have the Holy Spirit living within us to guide us.
Men should not seek after additional written revelation, but they should
seek Jesus and walk in holiness, without sin, and then their understanding
will be opened.
Glenn to Davidm? Are you sure about this? If you're right, this is really something.
DaveH wrote:
The BofM quotes much material from Bible sources.
It states on its title page that it is a second witness of
Christ, the Bible being the first witness.
How do you explain that the original title
Note: Devotion and love IN THE IMAGE OF Christ is what it is all about. Not being exact on some set of rules.
"Should I find a Pedobaptist more intelligent in the Christian Scriptures, more spiritually minded and more devoted to the Lord than a Baptist, or one immersed on profession of faith, I
"All interpretation is socially located, individually skewed and ecclesiastically and theologically conditioned." - Clark H. Pinnok, Tracing the Maze.
necessary to get to heaven.
'But since men are so solicitous about the true church, I would only ask them here, if it be not more agreeable to the Church of Christ to make the conditions of her communion consist in such things, and such things only as the Holy Spirit has in the Holy Scriptures
"That although inferences and deductions from Scripture premises, when fairly inferred, may be truly called the doctrine of God's holy word, yet are they not formally binding upon the consciences of Christians farther than they perceive the connection, and evidently see that they are so . . . .
Glenn to Blainer - What you say below is amazing. You condemn yourself. Here's why. You condemn Christians for dividing AND MORMONS ARE DIVIDED TOO. All this supposedly added revelation that Mormonism brings to the table just causes more division. EVEN MORMONS ARE DIVIDED. TO SAY MORMONS ARE NOT
Glenn to Blainer - Yes, most of the time you have very little spin until you are penned down and then you spin. That's how it seems to me. I am not trying to be offensive. DAVEL didn't think you meant to say I was lost below. He called me a brother in Christ. You say I am lost. I am not offended
Glenn- Speculate speculate speculate while the flames of hell continue to burn. God Himself, reveals false revelations to me as He lives within me. He's called the Holy Spirit.
DaveL - God may have revealed something thousands of years ago
Glenn - I don't agree anything has been lost but God wanted it lost. Mormons can speculate all they want and talk about stuff that is off the wall. This is off the wall. How can you talk about lost Scripture except to knock knock knock the Bible. Wow! My faith is in God your's is in Joe Smith.
Glenn - We know NO such thing. What Mormons try to get lost is their own sordid history.
DAVEH: Despite knowing that Scripture was lost previously. I'm not sure of how you logically can believe such, DavidM.
Glenn - Wrong!!! You refuse to find out the truth because you refuse (Mormons won't let you according to your doctrine.) study apologetics. You just speculate. Apologetics will destroy the Mormon anti-Bible doctrine. You don't even know the basics of 101 about how be got our Bible. Davel,
Glenn - That's not what Blaine told me. And Blaine didn't offend me either. What offends me is Mormon spin that Blaine calls Mormons wisdom. Mormon wisdom = brainwashing.
This is seen through your comments above, and by Blaine's comments
to Glenn concerning his efforts to save his soul from the
Glenn - This kind of talk is unbelievable. You knock knock knock every jot and title in the Bible and then say this. Here's the Mormon double standard. IF YOU DIDN'T GIVE JOE SMITH ANY MORE LEADWAY THAN YOU DO THE BIBLE JOE SMITH WOULD BE IN BIG TIME TROUBLE WITH MORMONS.
This one way to look
Glenn to DaveL - No problem at all. The Difference is you have not read you didn't quote me an OFFICIAL doctrine. I tell you what Mormonism teaches. That is different. You told me what one UNOFFICIAL book said.
:-)
Some Chrsitians believe it is a parable. I do not.
DAVEH: Listen Glenn...As
Glenn - From Mormons it doesn't matter what anyone says unless they are Mormons. The good old double standard.
1. It is not an earthly story with a heavenly meaning.
2. Notice how Jesus starts out his parables. This is different. This one says it is literal.
3. Jesus never named names in his
Glenn - Yes I do. I fail to understand how a person as smart as you could get involved in Mormonism.
Glenn - Exactly. I also fail to understand the connection between Christians and Mormons.
DAVEH: LOL...Oh Glenn, ain't you getting tricky! But then again, you seem to "fail to understand" a
Glenn - OK, I believe you but you are differing from Mormon doctrine here. I don't think they will kick you out as long as you send them your tithes. :-)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn - Hey, DaveL. Blaine taught me about myself being greatly under the influence of Satan for following the Bible
Glenn - Why can't you understand the "argument from silence"? You have used it yourself in the past.
You can't understand this because your foundation is wrong. Your foundation is wrong because you are making a doctrine that the Bible is silent about. THE BIBLE DOES NOT SAY IT IS WRONG TO BAPTZIE
Glenn - Because Blaine said so.
DAVEH: As I have repeatedly stated, you are absolutely wrong on that. Why you want to spin this to make it seem 180 degrees opposed to reality is beyond me. Why do you persist in perverting the truth, Glenn?
Glenn to DaveL - Do you believe in the Providence of God? IF so, please define it. Thanks.
Of course, if
you don't believe in God's Providence and Sovereignty in the affairs of men,
then none of this will make much sense to you.
---BeginMessage---
DaveH wrote:
If the Lord revealed
I'm waiting for DaveL's response on this.
LOL. No, Dave, it is not the same. Why did he then change the title page
of the next edition to identify him as the translator instead of the author
and proprietor? Can't you see that Joe Smith's ego and ambition was coming
out in that first edition? He
Laura, do you think you could cut JS some slack? Remember the Bible says, with what judgment you judge you shall be judged. THEREFORE, since you judge JS wrong for marrying all those girls and women if you marry a bunch of woman and girls you have judged yourself.
The immorality issue is
Blaine - Exactly. We are in agreement here. There is no connection between Chrsitianity and Mormonism.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 08:30:12 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Glenn - Second question. I ask you this, because Mormons are making
a world
wide spin to be accepted as Christians and not a
Glenn - After all these months thanks for changing your claim that there are no Mormon divisions and for admitting there are Mormons divisions. As to your claim that there are not any doctrinal differences among the different Mormon divisions I'm not sure. I think the Reorganized Mormons have
Glenn - Agreed that division is wrong according to 1 Cor. I accept other denominations as Christians not because I agree with them on everything doctrinally, but because we have the same Father God. While it is not much, it is my little way of not furthering divisions. The Restoration Movement
Glenn - Mormons will not co-operate with Christians on city wide meetings. Mormons will not co-operate with Christians here in Roanoke with the Salvation Army or the Rescue Mission. Why? Because Mormons are the one and only true church. This explains what they really believe about Christianity.
Glenn - I understand what you are saying, however, it just simply is not true. It's like calling the earth flat. The Flat Earth Society is still going strong with many members. You are just telling a lie with all due respect. EVERY CHURCH IN AMERICA COULD MAKE THE SAME CLAIM YOU MAKE THAT, THEIR
Glenn - Blaine will tell me if I am wrong, but I think Mormons believe unsaved sinners go to the 1st heaven.
Maybe people like me, who place their total life in Jesus Christ by grace through faith go the 2nd heaven. But remember GOD is not in the 2nd heaven as they call it.
Only Mormons go to
This is deep. This I can think about for days. This is powerful. Thanks.
If you are looking for the
"TRUE CHURCH," or if you think you have already found the "TRUE CHURCH,"
then you are going to miss recognizing the congregation of Jesus Christ.
Two quesses and the first one doesn't count.
Sorry about the blank post - I'm not sure why it sent. I'll bite What is a covenantal relationship? Can anyone have it? Laura
DaveL - Here you go spinning again. Why can't Mormons just tell us what they believe? You have convinced me here on TT it is because what you believe is so foreign to the Bible that you have to get people in a little bit at a time. Again, this is called brainwashing. I have know a few Mormons on
Glenn - You quote one source. Why don't you do a thorough study of how we got our Bible? You will not because it will destroy your Mormon scriptures.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glenn - From Mormons it doesn't matter what anyone says unless they are Mormons.
DAVEH: So Glenn, you are saying that
Glenn - You are pulling an OJ Simpson attorney like tickery here. You are pulling the old "switch-a-rue" on the issue. You're eliminating everything in this discussion but the BoM. You have other fiction you call scripture beside the BoM.
The same things that caused Mormon divisions also caused
Glenn - And of course this is NOT division. LOL Here you are divided from them and gossiping about them with rumors.
Blainer - There are rumors that it is
considering selling the Kirtland temple, again for the purpose of
achieving distance from the main church or anything Mormon, which is
Blainer said there were no doctrinal differences between the different Mormon divisions. He spend a long time spinning the line. Now, tell me, Blainer, are there doctrinal differences between the different Mormon divisions or not? Is DavidM lying about the doctrinal differences he mentioned?
I wish to point out this double standard again. All this Mormon talk about "suppose" and many words like that when it comes to their message. But all non- Mormons must have proof.
PS. You're denying what DavidM said about this?
Blainer) So far, I have seen nothing to prove all this happened.
You have me figured out all right. I have no intention of converting you to Christianity. There is no hope for you. Already it has been, there is a line you have crossed.
Blainer) I am happy to hear more about you. I still don't know you all
that well, at least not to the point of having you all
No need to recal it. Just make it up like all the other made up Mormon revelation.
That is a good question. I have always understood the topography in
Central and Sud America revealed many features that supported this, such
as hiways on top of a mountain when there was no reason for them to be
Glenn - Therefore Mormonism has caused more divisions. That is all I have been saying on this point.
DAVEH: I don't know about the "hundreds" purportedly Paul admitted, but I think there have been more than a hundred who over the past nearly 200 years have parted company with the LDS folks and
Glenn - Mormons not accepting other Mormons (and all Christians) who disagree with them doctrinally PROVES THEY HAVE MANY DIVISIONS. IT DOES NOT PROVE THEY ARE NOT DIVIDED. AGAIN THE EARTH IS NOT FLAT.
I repeat most every denomination in America could make the same claim that they are not
Glenn - By the way the members of the Church of Christ have a saying. "We are neither Protestants, Catholics, or Jews. We are Christians only". They are the one and only true church. They are the one and only "Restoration Movement". They are the one and only ones to restore the one and only New
Glenn - Humpty Dumpty, UFOs, ring around the rosés...now this is something to build our faith upon...BUT we can't trust the Bible in its present form. In fact, trusting the Bible in it's present form leaves me greatly under the influence of Satan. Speculation or inspiration?
Davidm - Hey, why
THIS IS SCARY BUT INTERSESTING!
People who Clinton didn't have to Pardon.
James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key Witness in Ken Starr's investigation.
Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern
Glenn - Please. Legends are lies. It sure seems to me Mormons live by speculation while Christians live by inspiration...the inspired Bible.
Blainer) Is it not a fact that legends are usually based upon real
happenings?
Glenn - Wrong. The Bible does not teach a person is going to hell (or whatever word Mormons use) if they are not baptized. In fact, the thief on the cross, was with Jesus after he died.
Paul is talking about the resurrection here, and asking, to paraphrase
it, if there is no resurrection, then
Glenn - I guess one could say Humpty Dumpty said on a wall was based on a true story. If an egg falls off a wall it will break. WOW! Certainly not something I want to base my salvation upon. You can depend up legends, but I will depend up Jesus Christ to get me to heaven. Again, it's speculation
Glenn- Dave, your explanation didn't hold water with me. I didn't accept it. It was too speculative. No offense, please. I gave an explanation about Paradise being in heaven today. When I die I will go directly to be in heaven with Christ. No speculation just inspiration. Inspiration in that the
Glenn to Blainer - You are making fun of the Bible. David was teaching what the original Greek words mean. Again, you are knock knock knocking the Bible and this time in it's original Greek form.
Yes, David, is a free spirit I would guess. However, I can tell you this. It was the Jesus people in
Don't forget the secret organization (which isn't secret anymore with the advent of the internet) Masons.
Now we have folklore, astrology and mythology - I'm sticking with the Jesus of the BIBLE Laura
Ok, then the, Mormon Jesus is a snake according to you. I understand.
Blainer) Did I say Jesus was a viper? A viper is a poisonous snake. BE
IT FAR FROM ME TO EVEN SUGGEST THAT. I said he was represented by a
BENIGN (NON-poisonous) serpent raised by Moses on a rod--as in crucified
on a cross.
Glenn - I have a problem with this "bias" stuff. Are you implying that all truth is dependent upon one's bias?
Blainer) Please keep in mind that what makes sense to your biases, does
not always make sense to me.
Glenn= While what you are agreeing with DavidM is true, you are using it wrongly. You are using it as an excuse to claim spiritual truths that are not spiritual truths. Since they are stupid the only way to believe them is by claiming they are from God. God is not stupid. This explains why you
This reminds me of a joke a Mormon told me one time. "You're just jealous because all these little people in eternity don't speak to you."
I mean no offense, but this sounds like demonic activity to me. Spiritual,
yes, but not from God. I have seen this attitude in other Mormons too, and
they
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