Izzy: I humbly acknowledge the importance of life
lived over life discussed.Amen and thanks for this. Blessings,
Lance
- Original Message -
From:
ShieldsFamily
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: May 11, 2004 16:20
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Mediation of
Christ
Bill Taylor wrote:Another
thing to keep in mind when reading Torranceis this: we are ontologically
in Christ from birthvia the go'el aspect of the atonement; but the
giftof the Holy Spirit is received at the point of trustingin Jesus
Christ. Sometimes this is referred to asrepentance,
GENTS,
YOU GUYS NEED A SHRINK TO HELP YOU WITH THIS GIBBERISH POPPYCOCK, AND I SAY THAT MOST RESPECTFULLY, FROM THE DEPTHS OF THE REAL ME. HOWEVER, WHO IS "ME"? WILL WE EVER KNOW IN A PURE ONTOLOGICAL SENSE?
HELP!!! I AM GETTING SUCKED INTO THE MAELSTROM BY THE NOMENCLATURE OF THIS
David writes However, Torrance does tend to go further and were it not
for Bill's comments here in this forum, I'm not sure I would have grasped
how far he was going with this.
David, I am not nearly as good a communicator as I need to be under these
circumstances. I am finding that I have
Good response. Very helpful.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:32 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] The Mediation of Christ
Lance wrote:
What is your understanding of semantic?
The word semantic refers to
In a message dated 5/11/2004 3:47:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Actually, it doesnt bother me a bit, as that is what I assumed. And you have no idea about my personality, I think. BTW, Elsman, do you have any hobbies or interests (other than picking on defenseless
In a message dated 5/11/2004 9:17:16 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi Judy. So your husband's name is Grady? I think this is the firsttime I have heard it. Thanks for sharing that with us.
That is a riot. My husband's name was Grady! Laura
Now that's unusual Laura , I don't think Grady is a
very common name. I wanted to name our
son Grady but my husband wouldn't let me so it won't
come down generationally in our family.
The only other Grady we knew of was that fellow on
Sandford Son. judyt
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a
Izzy: guess Im confusing what you believe with the sort of thing that Paul
spoke
about when he taught at the statue to the Unknown God. Didnt the Romans
have multiple gods when Jesus walked on the earth?
TPW: The Romans had their gods, the Celts, the Teutons, the Egyptians, the
Gauls, and
\o/ !HALALU Yah!
\o/
Greetings in the Matchless Name of
YahShua !
Babies that die go to hell.
Hell is the grave.
All who die go to hell.
After the final judgment then hell and
death (and whoever has been returned there) are cast into the lake of
fire.
Simple scriptural truth.
From Marlin:
I think that the word "denomination" applies to the group.
But this is not a compliment. I prefer home churches and being led
directly of God, rather than by a hierarchy of human leaders. I am
responsible for my own actions before God, not any leader other than God can
give
Bill Taylor wrote:
Finally, the Arminian theory approaches our issue
from a different starting point. In this paradigm,
all persons, infants, and adults alike, are seen as
fallen, sinful, at least partially depraved, and
guilty in the sight of God.
What specific Arminians do you have in
TPW, I still can't comprehend someone believing the way you do. It is as
foreign to me as a man from Mars. All of my life I've heard of many
different religions, but always thought that true paganism died out with the
dinosaurs, so to speak. What is it that you like about this religion of
Elsman, It is so
heartening for me to hear that you also attack innocent animals and other
tennis players, in addition to defenseless, harmless, and charming women. I feared that perhaps you only had a one
track mind. Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
In a message dated 5/11/2004 9:33:11 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Babies that die go to hell.
Hell is the grave.
All who die go to hell.
After the final judgment then hell and death (and whoever has been returned there) are cast into the lake of fire.
Simple
Hey David,
I basically started with a contemporary Arminian position and moved
backwards from there. If I were to rewrite that today I would probably begin
with something like Arminians believe that infants are born with no inherent
righteousness, or something on that order, and then build and
Bill Taylor wrote:
Many, many children have died in infancy before giving
or even being able to give any indication that they are
in a relationship with Jesus Christ. Yet you agree with
me that these children are not destined for damnation.
They are safe and will go to heaven. The
Izzy wrote:
TPW, I still can't comprehend someone believing
the way you do. It is as foreign to me as a man
from Mars. All of my life I've heard of many
different religions, but always thought that true
paganism died out with the dinosaurs, so to speak.
ROTFLOL. Izzy, you really need
Interesting, your comments are noted. How do you
understandEphesians 2:1-6,in particular vs 1, 3,and 5?
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in
trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the
course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the
Chris Barr wrote:
\o/ !HALALU Yah! \o/
Greetings in the
Matchless Name of YahShua !
Babies that die go to hell.
Hell is the grave.
DAVEH: Chris, do you view hell in a singular sense, or do you
recognize there may be various forms
Terry Clifton wrote:
About
thirty years ago I promised my wife that I would take her on a cruise.
I am just a trifle slow, but I do keep my promises.
DAVEH: Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day...
Promises are like the full moon: if they are not kept at once they diminish day by day. -German
Only one persona and no traps Jim. Theold accuser
is at it again; and yes I do have a husband who likes for me to talk to
him. Sometimes one is not toldthe story
accurately. I hever heard thatthis warning was preachedto a
crowd so it came across as though HH warned Elvis' grandmother
David: As I note that Bill is responding in some detail to your question(s),
I'd like to ask you the following: In your own words WHAT DOES TFT MEAN
when speaking of THE VICARIOUS LIFE AND DEATH OF THE MEDIATOR? Blessings,
Lance
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: May
To all on TT who wish to follow the discussion
initiated by David Miller on the book: The Mediation of Christ.C. Baxter Kruger
did his doctorate on TFTorrance's Doctrine of God. It was supervised by James
Torrance, Tom's brother.
Whether you agree or not this will facilitate an
accurate
See www.regentbookstore.com/. www.perichoresis.org/
for print and audio related to the conversation on
the relation of the Incarnation to the Atonement. Lectures on CD by TFT are
available from Regent.
Blessings, Lance
Judy Taylor wrote:
Actually we are flying out of here on Wednesday morning for TX. Got to
be
there for Grandparents day at school - we will be away 10 days but I can
check
in via the internet if we have any spare time.
A cruise sounds much better than flying these days please pray for us,
David Miller wrote:
Have a great trip, Terry. We will keep you in prayer. You are a
blessing to us.
That is about the nicest thing anyone ever said about me, but I am not
certain that you could get a majority
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Have a great trip and bring home a trip report! Laura
We will probably bring home some unneeded pounds.
Terry
In a message dated 5/11/2004 5:08:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Only one persona and no traps Jim. The old accuser is at it again; and yes I do have a husband who likes for me to talk to him. Sometimes one is not told the story accurately. I hever heard that this
Hi Bill.
I'm not sure there is much to disagree with your response, but yet it
does seem to me that our grasp of this issue is not identical. Perhaps
that will become more clear as our discussion progresses.
When I read Torrance, I come away with a different perspective than you
do, but
Hi Judy. So your husband's name is Grady? I think this is the first
time I have heard it. Thanks for sharing that with us.
Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you
ought to answer
Lance wrote:
In your own words WHAT DOES TFT MEAN when
speaking of THE VICARIOUS LIFE AND DEATH
OF THE MEDIATOR?
Torrance points out the importance of not looking at the work of Christ
as merely external representation. Jesus Christ was not just the leader
of humanity to represent us before
One of my college math profs was named Grady Cantrell.
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] a promise kept.
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:15:37 -0400
Hi Judy. So your husband's name is Grady? I think this is the first
time
David: difference semantic (only implied?)..at time more than that
(semantic implied) What is your understanding of semantic? What is your
understanding of syntax? How can a difference be more than semantic? I'm not
being a sa David. I may be incorrectly understanding these two fundamental
terms
Perry, If Elsman was being funny, it worked--it cracked me up. :-) Izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2004 11:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Hubert and women--JUDY SPREADS
Pardon me if I just opt out until you to all sort it out and come
to a consensus. Then you can kindly report the results to the rest of us. J Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 4:48
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Youve got my vote (for what its worth) Terry. I already prayed for your safe and
wonderful trip while walking Lacey to Forest Park this morning. Izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 5:02
AM
To: [EMAIL
---ELSMAN
P.S.
OH, YOU EXPECT SOME SCAT? ELVIS DIED
ON A TOILET, STRAINING AWAY..CHECK IT OUT. HIS DRUGS CAUSED
CONSTIPATION, WHICH MANY HEREON ARE AFFLICTED BY, TO THEIR
FRUSTRATION. THERE ARE MANY FORMS OF CONSTIPATIONINCLUDING
EMOTIONAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL, WHICH MAKE MANY
My computer was attacked by that sasser virus and
I missed a bunch of mail, gone forever because of hotmail account
limitations.
Regarding the SDAs. I have been
fellowshipping among them for a couple of years now as a guest. There are
wonderful people there. The group as a whole is
Lance wrote:
What is your understanding of semantic?
The word semantic refers to the meaning of words. Sometimes a person
might say the same thing but use different words. For example, someone
might say, that was really Great! Another person might say, No, that
was really Excellent! They
In a message dated 5/11/2004 12:11:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Perry, If Elsman was being funny, it worked--it cracked me up. :-) Izzy
PERRY,
DON'T TRUST HERSHE CAN TURN ON A MAN IN A NEW YORK SECOND. SHE HAS AT LEAST 3 PERSONAS, AND EVEN THIS FRIENDLY PERSONA
David: No syntactics contains it's own semantics. Agree/Disagree? In all
communication success is determined by an overlap of meaning (semantics). No
overlap, no communication.
PS: For shame on all of us for communicating in such a way as to prompt Izzy
to drop out 'til we're done.CSLewis
Elsmanstein: Are you up to speed on the Mediation
of Christ "conversation". I, for one, would like to know your thoughts.
Lance
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: May 11, 2004 12:36
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]JUDY ADMITS TO
In a message dated 5/11/2004 12:51:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Elsmanstein: Are you up to speed on the Mediation of Christ "conversation". I, for one, would like to know your thoughts. Lance
LANCE,
I DON'T DO BOOKS BY MERE MEN. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS WELL ABLE TO TEACH
The website looks very interesting,Marlin. Its
good to know the background on SDAs. Its always good to hear from you. Izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlin halverson
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:08
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re:
Elsman, from your heading I cant tell if you intended to
malign Judy of me. Either way, enjoy yourself. Izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:36
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]JUDY
Don't feel bad, Lance. It's not that I'm 12 yrs old. It's just that I'm a
female. :-) I'd rather spend my time quilting while you fellas come up with
a consensus for the rest of us. Izzy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent:
Correction: Judy OR me.
Duh.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ShieldsFamily
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:23
AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk]JUDY
ADMITS TO CRACKING UP
Elsman, from your heading I cant tell if you intended to
In a message dated 5/11/2004 1:24:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Elsman, from your heading I cant tell if you intended to malign Judy of me. Either way, enjoy yourself. Izzy
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU TAKE IT PERSONALLY, CONSISTENT WITH YOUR PERSONALITY. CHIP.
Izzy: I'd really appreciate it if you didn't play to this stereotype. You
write well. I looked through your book. I read your description of the time
the two of you had at the park.Izzy, you say important things well and with
more warmth than most. At least read while quilting. Remember what I
Lance wrote:
No syntactics contains it's own semantics.
Agree/Disagree?
I don't understand your statement here because of invalid syntax. :-)
LOL. Does my statement give you a hint about how I will answer you?
Syntactic is an adjective, and syntactics is not really a word, so maybe
you
David: You're too clever for words, NOT. Here's the full quote:
Certainly the Godelian theorems-which we may transpose from a
logico-deductive system to a grammatico-syntactic or a logico-syntactic
system-warn us that no syntactics contains its own semantics.
Kudos to you David as a grammarian.
Actually, it doesnt bother me a bit, as that is what I assumed. And you have no idea about my personality, I
think. BTW, Elsman,
do you have any hobbies or interests (other than picking on defenseless women)?
J I cant imagine what a person such as yourself
does for fun. Izzy
I
Lance wrote:
Here's the full quote: Certainly the Godelian
theorems-which we may transpose from a logico-deductive
system to a grammatico-syntactic or a logico-syntactic
system-warn us that no syntactics contains its own semantics.
Kudos to you David as a grammarian. If syntax and semantics
-Original Message-
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Mediation of Christ
Izzy: I'd really appreciate it if you didn't play to this
stereotype. You
write well. I looked through your book. I read your description of the
time
the two of you had at the park.Izzy, you say important
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