subject:"Re\: \[TruthTalk\] Hell BoM"

CONTENTION is of the Devil 3 Ne 11 And according as I have commanded you thus shall ye baptize. And there shall be no disputations among you, as there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been.29For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.Perhaps this helps with keeping the members in line too after all when the leaders speak the thinking
has been done.The Holy Bible on the other hand says: 1 Thessalonians 5:21 clearly commandsto "prove all things." The scriptures tell us to CONTEND for the faith ONCE delivered "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.Paulwas so despised bysome that he was lashed on5occasions,beaten w/ rods three times, and was nearly stoned to death The real question
is just who it is really getting angry. Galatians 4:16"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" After allANTI's are Stupid Losers and do not really undestand, just can't get the facts straight! http://www.mormonismi.info/jamesdavid/negative.htmDave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To avoid WHAT?DAVEH: Contention perhaps, such as is commonly found here?ShieldsFamily wrote: To avoid WHAT? That nice, positive place? izFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dave HansenSent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:30 AMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoMDAVEH: The Lord has provided a way for us to avoid it.ShieldsFamily wrote: What is the positive message about hell? izDo you ever warn people about the FIRE of hell? DAVEH: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer to be more positive in my approach.-- ~~~ Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
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RE: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

2006-03-21 Thread ShieldsFamily









Amen, Brother Kevin! iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 5:45
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM







CONTENTION is of the Devil





3 Ne 11 And according as I have commanded you
thus shall ye baptize. And there shall be no disputations among you, as
there have hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you
concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been.29For
verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of
contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one
with another.











Perhaps this helps with keeping the members in line
too after all when the leaders speak the thinking has been done.











The Holy Bible on the other hand says:





1
Thessalonians 5:21 clearly commandsto prove
all things. 





The scriptures tell us to CONTEND for
the faith ONCE delivered





Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove,
rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when
they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall
they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away
their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.











Paulwas so despised bysome that he was
lashed on5occasions,beaten w/ rods three times, and was
nearly stoned to death 











The real question is just who it is really getting
angry.





Galatians
4:16Am I therefore become your
enemy, because I tell you the truth?






After allANTI's are Stupid  Losers and do
not really undestand, just can't get the facts straight!





http://www.mormonismi.info/jamesdavid/negative.htm

Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





To avoid
WHAT?

DAVEH: Contention perhaps, such as is commonly found here?


ShieldsFamily wrote: 



To
avoid WHAT? That nice, positive place? iz



















From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Dave Hansen
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:30
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM















DAVEH: The Lord has provided a way for us to
avoid it.

ShieldsFamily wrote: 











What is the positive message about hell? iz













Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of hell?




DAVEH: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer to
be more positive in my approach.









-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.









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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

2006-03-21 Thread Dave Hansen

After allANTI's are Stupid Losers and do not really
undestand, just can't get the facts straight!

DAVEH: Sigh Sometimes I just don't feel compelled to argue
with you, Kevin.

Kevin Deegan wrote:

Perhaps this helps with keeping the members in line too after
all when the leaders speak the th inking has been done.

The Holy Bible on the other hand says:
1 Thessalonians 5:21 clearly
commandsto "prove all things."
The scriptures tell us to CONTEND
for the faith ONCE delivered
"Preach the word; be instant
in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all
longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will
not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to
themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away
their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Paulwas so despised bysome that he was lashed
on5occasions,beaten w/ rods three times, and was nearly stoned to
death

The real qu estion is just who it is really getting
angry.
Galatians 4:16"Am I therefore
become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
After allANTI's are Stupid Losers and do not
really undestand, just can't get the facts straight!
http://www.mormonismi.info/jamesdavid/negative.htm

Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
To avoid
WHAT?

DAVEH: Contention perhaps, such as is commonly found here?

ShieldsFamily wrote:

To avoid
WHAT? That nice, positive place? iz

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Dave
Hansen
Sent: Monday,
March 20, 2006 12:30 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

DAVEH: The Lord has provided
a way for us to avoid it.

ShieldsFamily wrote:

What is the
positive message about hell? iz

Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of
hell?

DAVEH: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer to be
more positive in my approach.

-- ~~~ Dave
Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New
PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

RE: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

2006-03-21 Thread ShieldsFamily









LOL!











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Hansen
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006
12:04 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM





To avoid
WHAT?

DAVEH: Contention perhaps, such as is commonly found here?


ShieldsFamily wrote: 

To avoid WHAT? That nice,
positive place? iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Dave Hansen
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:30
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM







DAVEH: The Lord has provided a way for us to
avoid it.

ShieldsFamily wrote: 



What is the positive message about hell? iz











Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of hell?


DAVEH: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer to
be more positive in my approach.







-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

Why all the name calling from LDS is this CONTENTION?
http://www.mormonismi.info/jamesdavid/negative.htm

--- Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 _*After all ANTI's are Stupid  Losers and do not really undestand,
 just 
 can't get the facts straight!*_
 
 DAVEH:  Sigh  Sometimes I just don't feel compelled to argue with
 you, 
 Kevin.
 
 Kevin Deegan wrote:
 
  *CONTENTION is of the Devil*
  3 Ne 11  And according as I have commanded you thus shall ye
 baptize. 
  And there shall be no disputations 
  http://scriptures.lds.org/3_ne/11/28a#28a among you, as there
 have 
  hitherto been; neither shall there be disputations among you 
  concerning the points of my doctrine, as there have hitherto been. 
   For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the *spirit of 
  **contention* http://scriptures.lds.org/3_ne/11/29a#29a* is not
 of 
  me, but is of the **devil* 
  http://scriptures.lds.org/3_ne/11/29b#29b, who is the father of 
  contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with 
  anger, one with another.
   
  Perhaps this helps with keeping the members in line too after all
 when 
  the leaders speak the th inking has been done.
   
  The Holy Bible on the other hand says:
  *1 Thessalonians 5:21 clearly commands to /prove all things./*
  The scriptures tell us to *CONTEND for the faith ONCE delivered*
  /*Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, 
  rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time
 will 
  come when they _will_ not endure sound doctrine; but after their
 own 
  lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
 And 
  they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned
 
  unto fables.*/
   
  Paul was so despised by some that he was lashed on 5 occasions,
 beaten 
  w/ rods three times, and was nearly stoned to death
   
  *The real qu estion is just who it is really getting angry.*
  *Galatians 4:16 /Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell
 you 
  the truth?/*
  _*After all ANTI's are Stupid  Losers and do not really undestand,
 
  just can't get the facts straight!*_
  http://www.mormonismi.info/jamesdavid/negative.htm
 
  */Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:
 
  *To avoid WHAT?*
 
  DAVEH:   Contention perhaps, such as is commonly found here?
 
 
  ShieldsFamily wrote:
 
  *To avoid WHAT?* That nice, positive place? iz
   
 


  *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Dave
 Hansen
  *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2006 12:30 AM
  *To:* TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  *Subject:* Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM
   
  DAVEH:  The Lord has provided a way for us to avoid it.
 
  ShieldsFamily wrote:
   
  What is the positive message about hell? iz
 


 
 *Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of *
 
 *hell?*
 
 
  DAVEH:   No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI
 prefer
  to be more positive in my approach.
 
  
 
 
 --   ~~~  Dave 
  Hansen 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://www.langlitz.com  ~~~  If you
 wish to receive  things I find interesting,  I maintain six email
 lists...  JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,  STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
 
 
 


  Yahoo! Mail
  Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail 
 

http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39174/*http://photomail.mail.yahoo.com
 
  makes sharing a breeze. 
 
 
 -- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
 
 


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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

s, such as is commonly found here?ShieldsFamily wrote:   *To avoid WHAT?* That nice, positive place? iz   
   *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Dave Hansen  *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2006 12:30 AM  *To:* TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  *Subject:* Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoMDAVEH: The Lord has provided a way for us to avoid it.   ShieldsFamily wrote:What is the positive message about hell? iz    *Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of *  *hell?*DAVEH: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer  to be more
 positive in my approach.  -- ~~~ Dave   Hansen   [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.     Yahoo! Mail  Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.--  ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.  __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

sers and do not really undestand,   just can't get the facts straight!*_  http://www.mormonismi.info/jamesdavid/negative.htm
   */Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:   *To avoid WHAT?*   DAVEH: Contention perhaps, such as is commonly found here?ShieldsFamily wrote:   *To avoid WHAT?* That nice, positive place? iz  *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Dave Hansen  *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2006 12:30 AM  *To:* TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org  *Subject:* Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoMDAVEH: The Lord has provided a way for us to avoid it.   ShieldsFamily wrote:What is the positive message about hell? iz
    *Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of *  *hell?*DAVEH: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer  to be more positive in my approach.  -- ~~~ Dave   Hansen   [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.     Yahoo! Mail  Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.--  ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.  __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join,
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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM




Oh but I do rejoice with you, David. God does heal 
and, this may be one of those healings. It was the 'word faith approach' that 
concerned us.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  David Miller 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 19, 2006 14:59
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM
  
  What this reminds me of is when the Pharisees complained about Jesus 
  healing on the Sabbath. My daughter is healed now, and she is happy, I'm 
  happy, my wife is happy, everybody is happy except for these 3 people who came 
  together and talked about how disturbing my post to TT was about it.
  
  At this same time, Dean sent me a post complaining about my testimony 
  concerning childbearing, not using doctors and believing God for painless 
  childbirth. I don't know if I will ever understand how others cannot 
  simply rejoice with me when God is so good.
  
  David Miller
  
  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:19 
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

What truth do you refer toLance?
Are you calling him co-leader of a sectarian group 
because he encourages his daughter
to believe God to speed healing of herwrist 
and relieve the pain? or
Because there are many religious sects on this TT 
list?

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:13:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  David could 'justify' this truth better than 
  I, Judy.
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:00:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian 
group.
Can you justify this announcement Lance by 
giving us a list of
the various sects that comprise this 
group? Mormon is obvious,
what are the others.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

David:Will you tell us something about the 'church' you're a part of. What 
is your role in that 'church'?

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 22:31
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

Lance and cohorts, please stop referring to David Miller's sect.  Can 
you
identify or name any such sect? Why do you insist on such arrogant 
insults?

David please close this snakepit.  izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 5:38 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing the commandments of God'.
Everyone (including you along with all of those within your sect, David)
'transgresses the commandments of God', David. You then, David, ought to 
be

and, likely are, warning those non-protestants within your sect concerning
this. Amen, I guess, for consistency if nothing else.

Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 18, 2006 16:11
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

Dave, for what it is worth, your view of hell is also shared by many
Protestants.  In fact, a very well known hell fire and brimestone 
preacher

by the name of Jed Smock (www.brojed.org) believes about hell pretty much
just like you do.  Still, Jed will stand on campus and warn students
loudly
about bur-r-r-n-n-ning in the la-a-a-ke of FI-I-I-R-R-E!  I was
surprised
the first time I learned that Jed believed the fire he preached was
figurative. I'm curious about you. Do you ever warn people about the FIRE
of
hell?  In other words, do you use this metaphor yourself to convey to
people
the danger of transgressing the commandments of God?

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Dave

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

I did think from previous encounters that you believed there was no
literal Hell.

DAVEH:  Quite the contrary.   As I view it, hell is the physical
separation
from God and his love.  The effect of such separation is similar to how 
it

would feel if you were cast into the burning garbage dump of Jerusalem,
except its effect would last forever.

Are you saying then that it is not a place?

DAVEH:  No, I did not say that.  If heaven is located in a place, then
heaven is located in a place other than where heaven is located.  So yes,
hell is a place.a place where God does not reside, nor does his love
emanate.

It is not physical?

DAVEH:  Yes, it is a physical place, but the description of the lake of
fire
and brimstone is symbolic representation of how folks will feel who end 
up
there.  I do not believe people will literally be cast into a burning 
lake

of fire and brimstone.  That is imagery, IMHO.

If this literal Hell you speak of is not a place,

DAVEH:   Since I do believe it is a place, the remaining questions seem
irrelevant.

   Now that I've satisfied your curiosity Kevin, let me now ask where you
think the literal burning pit (hell) will be located?

Kevin Deegan wrote:
I am sorry
I did think from previous encounters that you believed there was no
literal Hell.
Are you saying then that it is not a place?
It is not physical?
When someone uses the term Literal that is synonomous with physical,
perhaps, therein lies the confusion.

If this literal Hell you speak of is not a place, where will those that
suffer this mental anguish be?
Will they be neighbors of those that do not suffer?
Can there be both joy  sorrow in the same place?
Will they be in a physical place?

Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
you have been decieved by the Devil

DAVEH:  I respectfully disagree with you on that, Kevin.  Quite the
contraryIn reality, I've been enlightened by a fellow TTer!

   I don't know why it is so difficult for you to understand my position
on
this, Kevin.  I do believe in a literal hell.literally being 
separated
from God.  I just don't believe that those who reject Jesus will 
literally

be cast into a lake of fire and brimstone, as many believe.  Lacking the
eternal love of the Lord, those who suffer such separation will eternally
and forever suffer mental anguish at their shortsighted selfish decision
to
choose evil over good.

   Before you had brought these BoM and DC passages to my attention, I
had
never considered how latter-day scriptures handled this topic.  The only
time I had looked into it was several years ago in response to TTers
questioning me about it, and at that time I only looked at Bible passages
that were posted.  Perhaps it was you Kevin, I don't recall.  Back then, 
I
had only examined a number of Biblical passages to come to deter mine 
that
those who mentioned hell in the Bible were doing so symbolically when 
they

used the imagery of the burning trash pit of Jerusalem to reflect how one
who does not go

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

I understand that a lot of agreement exists between Benny Hinn and Kenneth 
Copeland. So?

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 22:40
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

The problem with you, Lance, is that you live an insular life; thinking 
that

others who don't agree with you don't get out enough. My husband is a
medical doctor and research scientist who believes exactly as DM does, and
he knows many others who believe as he does.  Stop being so narrow minded
about what real scientists believe. izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:21 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

I DID discuss it with you off the list but, you did not respond, David. 
What

we (most believers) have here is a failure to communicate with you (your
sect). You cite Heb 11 as if it amounted to 'case closed'. When I wrote 
you
privately David, I mentioned Hobart Freeman. Please look at his legacy 
and,

take care. E. W. Kenyon's offspring are everywhere. Are you one of them?

I also asked you whether you'd be interested in exposing yourself to some
'real' believing scientists re: Genesis 1-3. Would you? Further David, 
would

you be interested in exposing yourself to some 'real' logicians (i.e.
philosophers who employ logic without falling prey to rationalism).

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 08:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

Well, perhaps I should have kept that to myself, or shared privately with
a
few others, but then, wouldn't that have tended toward sectarianism?  At
least my daughter is healed, Lance.  You should be rejoicing with me, not
fearing dangerous sect or cult.  The difference between us on this matter
has to do with an understanding of faith.  Please read Heb. 11, and also
consider that I only speak of my personal belief and practice, which is
not
the same as insisting others do the same.  Lastly, you should consider
discussing issues like this one with me, perhaps off the list, rather 
than

making erroneous judgments about me.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

I have read all of these passages numerous times. Yes, I do read the
Bible.

Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian group.

You posted a family anecdote on TT in the last week or so. What that
reflected concerning 'your God' spoke volumes. If anyone should be
fearful,
David, I'd say 'look in the mirror.

At least our concern seems mutual. :)
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 07:46
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

Lance wrote:

David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing
the commandments of God'.  Everyone
(including you along with all of those within
your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments
of God', David.

You appear to be using the word sect here rather loosely.  I'm
anti-sectarian, remember?  I do not believe that denominations are of
God.
It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty
recently.

That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing 
the
commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal 
fate.

If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of God, then
that
means that you transgress the commandments of God.  Such indicates that
you
are not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ.  Have you not read the
following passages?

Matthew 19:17
(17) ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 14:15
(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 15:10
(10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I
have
kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 2:3-4
(3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a
liar,
and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22
(22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his
commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:24
(24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in 
him.

And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath
given
us.

1 John 5:2-3
(2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God,
and
keep his commandments.
(3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his
commandments are not grievous.

Revelation 12:17
(17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with
the
remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the
testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


David:

4. Will you kindly name those 'believing scientists' with whom you've 
engaged? I'll name but two for now with whom you might 'engage'. 1. John 
Polkinghorne (See his newest: 'Science and The Trinity - The Christian 
Encounter with Reality' 2004 2. Alexei V. Nesteruk 'Light from the East - 
Theology, Science, and the Eastern Orthodox Tradition'2003. Should you 
actually check 'em out, you'll see competence in both disciplines.


5. Once again I'll name but two; Thomas V. Morris 'The Logic of God 
Incarnate', 1986 2. 'Faith and Rationality: Reason and Belief in God', 1984


Should you wish to present the positive side of rationalism, dualism, 
reductionism and, perhaps even gnosticism then, I should like to hear it.


Lance
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 14:32
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM



Lance, I don't know what you are talking about.  We do have a failure to
communicate here.

1.  Heb. 11 isn't meant to be case closed, just helpful.
2.  I don't know who Hobart Freeman is, or his legacy.
3.  I am familiar a little with E.W. Kenyon.  No, I am not one of his
offspring.
4.  Exposing myself to believing scientists?  I'm not sure what you mean 
by
exposing myself. I have engaged many believing scientists about this. 
What
I'm really more interested in are theologians.  The few I have engaged 
can't

handle the science side, and generally they plead ignorance in our
discussion, falling back on I'm a theologian... sorry...  Would I expose
myself to scientists and theologians?  Of course.  Your question seems
nonsensical.
5.  Real logicians?  Of course I would welcome that.

I could be wrong, but as best I can tell, in theological circles, there
appear to be biases expressed against concepts like rationalism and
dualism and reductionism etc.  You seem to try and operate in line 
with

those biases without really understanding the reasoning behind the
criticisms leveled against the ideas expressed by these words.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


I DID discuss it with you off the list but, you did not respond, David. 
What

we (most believers) have here is a failure to communicate with you (your
sect). You cite Heb 11 as if it amounted to 'case closed'. When I wrote 
you
privately David, I mentioned Hobart Freeman. Please look at his legacy 
and,

take care. E. W. Kenyon's offspring are everywhere. Are you one of them?

I also asked you whether you'd be interested in exposing yourself to some
'real' believing scientists re: Genesis 1-3. Would you? Further David, 
would

you be interested in exposing yourself to some 'real' logicians (i.e.
philosophers who employ logic without falling prey to rationalism).


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 08:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM



Well, perhaps I should have kept that to myself, or shared privately with
a
few others, but then, wouldn't that have tended toward sectarianism?  At
least my daughter is healed, Lance.  You should be rejoicing with me, not
fearing dangerous sect or cult.  The difference between us on this matter
has to do with an understanding of faith.  Please read Heb. 11, and also
consider that I only speak of my personal belief and practice, which is
not
the same as insisting others do the same.  Lastly, you should consider
discussing issues like this one with me, perhaps off the list, rather 
than

making erroneous judgments about me.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


I have read all of these passages numerous times. Yes, I do read the
Bible.

Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian group.

You posted a family anecdote on TT in the last week or so. What that
reflected concerning 'your God' spoke volumes. If anyone should be
fearful,
David, I'd say 'look in the mirror.

At least our concern seems mutual. :)
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 07:46
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM



Lance wrote:

David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing
the commandments of God'.  Everyone
(including you along with all of those within
your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments
of God', David.


You appear to be using the word sect here rather loosely.  I'm
anti-sectarian, remember?  I do not believe that denominations are of
God.
It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty
recently.

That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing 
the
commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal 
fate.

If you think

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

2006-03-20 Thread Judy Taylor





I don't know if closing down TT is Lance's ultimate 
agenda but he does
appear to like the idea. Reminds me of Tobias who 
kept nipping at the
heels of those engaged in rebuilding the temple. 
Nehemiah said he didn't
have time to engage him because he was a diversion and 
seemingly on
a mission. .

Lance and cohorts, please stop referring to David Miller's 
"sect". Canyou identify or name any such sect? Why do you insist 
on such arrogant insults? David please close this snakepit. 
izzy
Lance writes:  David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing 
the commandments of  God'.  Everyone (including you along 
with all of those within your sect,  David)  'transgresses 
the commandments of God', David. You then, David,  ought to  
 be  and, likely are, warning those non-protestants within your 
sect  concerning  this. Amen, I guess, for consistency if 
nothing else.
  From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: March 18, 2006 16:11  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell 
BoMDave, for what it is worth, your 
view of hell is also shared by  many  Protestants. 
In fact, a very well known hell fire and brimestone
preacher  by the name of Jed Smock (www.brojed.org) believes 
about hell  pretty much  just like you do. Still, 
Jed will stand on campus and warn  students  
loudly  about "bur-r-r-n-n-ning in the la-a-a-ke of 
FI-I-I-R-R-E!" I  was  surprised  
the first time I learned that Jed believed the fire he preached  
was  figurative. I'm curious about you. Do you ever warn people 
about  the FIRE  of  hell? In 
other words, do you use this metaphor yourself to  convey to 
 people  the danger of transgressing the commandments of 
God?   David Miller  
  - Original Message -   From: 
Dave  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 2:34 PM  Subject: Re: 
[TruthTalk] Hell BoM   I did think from previous 
encounters that you believed there was  no  "literal" 
Hell.   DAVEH: Quite the 
contrary. As I view it, hell is the physical  
separation  from God and his love. The effect of such 
separation is similar  to how   it  
would feel if you were cast into the burning garbage dump of  
Jerusalem,  except its effect would last forever. 
  Are you saying then that it is not a place? 
  DAVEH: No, I did not say that. If heaven 
is located in a place,  then  heaven is located in a 
place other than where heaven is located.  So yes, 
 hell is a place.a place where God does not reside, nor does 
 his love  emanate.   It 
is not physical?   DAVEH: Yes, it is a 
physical place, but the description of the  lake of  
fire  and brimstone is symbolic representation of how folks will 
feel  who end   up  there. I do 
not believe people will literally be cast into a  burning  
 lake  of fire and brimstone. That is imagery, 
IMHO.   If this "literal" Hell you speak of is 
not a place,   DAVEH: Since I do 
believe it is a place, the remaining  questions seem  
irrelevant.   Now that I've 
satisfied your curiosity Kevin, let me now ask  where you 
 think the literal burning pit (hell) will be located? 
Kevin Deegan 
wrote:  I am sorry  I did think from previous 
encounters that you believed there was  no  "literal" 
Hell.  Are you saying then that it is not a place? 
 It is not physical?  When someone uses the term Literal 
that is synonomous with  physical,  perhaps, therein 
lies the confusion.   If this "literal" Hell you 
speak of is not a place, where will  those that  suffer 
this mental anguish be?  Will they be neighbors of those that do 
not suffer?  Can there be both joy  sorrow in the same 
place?  Will they be in a physical place? 
  Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 you have been decieved by the Devil   
DAVEH: I respectfully disagree with you on that, Kevin. Quite 
 the  contraryIn reality, I've been enlightened by a 
fellow TTer!   I don't know 
why it is so difficult for you to understand my  position 
 on  this, Kevin. I do believe in a literal 
hell.literally beingseparated  
from God. I just don't believe that those who reject Jesus will  
  literally  be cast into a lake of fire and 
brimstone, as many believe.  Lacking the  eternal 
love of the Lord, those who suffer such separation will  
eternally  and forever suffer mental anguish at their 
shortsighted selfish  decision  to  
choose evil over good.   
Before you had brought these BoM and DC passages to my  attention, 
I  had  never considered how latter-day 
scriptures handled this topic.  The only  time I 
had looked into it was several years ago in response to  TTers 
 questioning me about it, and at that time I only looked at Bible 
 passages  that were posted. Perhaps it was you 
Kevin, I don't recall.  Back then,   I 
 had only examined a number of Biblical passages to come to deter 
 mine   that  those who mentioned hell 
in the Bible were doing so symbolically  when   
they  used the imager

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

2006-03-20 Thread Judy Taylor




What is the "Word of Faith" approach 
Lance?

Just because there are a few nuts and flakes out there 
will you throw all healing down the
drain with them? This is why the church in 
general has so many sick ppl. Sin is not understood or dealt with
most of the time because we don't want to offend 
anyone. If someone would just get up there and boldly
teach truth things might begin to change. If 
people could just begin to recognize what it is and were willing
to take responsibility, repenting and renouncing it 
then we could get rid of it once and for all and they would
know enough to resist when it tries to come back. 
But Oh well! We can't offend anyone, they might leave
and take their offering with them. Got to have 
those big tithers to pay for the building fund while the ppl
perish. Peter rightly said "If the righteous 
scarcely be saved" 


On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 06:20:24 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Oh but I do rejoice with you, David. God does 
  heal and, this may be one of those healings. 
  It was the 'word faith approach' that concerned 
  us.
  
From: David Miller 

What this reminds me of is when the Pharisees complained about Jesus 
healing on the Sabbath. My daughter is healed now, and she is happy, 
I'm happy, my wife is happy, everybody is happy except for these 3 people 
who came together and talked about how disturbing my post to TT was about 
it.

At this same time, Dean sent me a post complaining about my testimony 
concerning childbearing, not using doctors and believing God for painless 
childbirth. I don't know if I will ever understand how others cannot 
simply rejoice with me when God is so good.

David Miller



  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  What truth do you refer 
  toLance?
  Are you calling him co-leader of a sectarian 
  group because he encourages his daughter
  to believe God to speed healing of herwrist 
  and relieve the pain? or
  Because there are many religious sects on this TT 
  list?
  
  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:13:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
David could 'justify' this truth better 
than I, Judy.

  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  
  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:00:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes: Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian 
  group.
  Can you justify this announcement Lance by 
  giving us a list of
  the various sects that comprise this 
  group? Mormon is obvious,
  what are the others.

RE: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

2006-03-20 Thread ShieldsFamily









To avoid WHAT? That nice, positive place?
iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Hansen
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 12:30
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM





DAVEH: The Lord has provided a way for us to
avoid it.

ShieldsFamily wrote: 



What is the positive message about hell? iz











Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of hell?


DAVEH: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer to
be more positive in my approach.







-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain six email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

RE: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

2006-03-20 Thread ShieldsFamily

So that has nothing at all to do with anything; typical sidestepping the
facts.  There ARE real scientists who believe as DM does about creation.
(duh.) iz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 5:32 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

I understand that a lot of agreement exists between Benny Hinn and Kenneth 
Copeland. So?

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 22:40
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

 The problem with you, Lance, is that you live an insular life; thinking 
 that
 others who don't agree with you don't get out enough. My husband is a
 medical doctor and research scientist who believes exactly as DM does, and
 he knows many others who believe as he does.  Stop being so narrow minded
 about what real scientists believe. izzy

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
 Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:21 AM
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

 I DID discuss it with you off the list but, you did not respond, David. 
 What

 we (most believers) have here is a failure to communicate with you (your
 sect). You cite Heb 11 as if it amounted to 'case closed'. When I wrote 
 you
 privately David, I mentioned Hobart Freeman. Please look at his legacy 
 and,
 take care. E. W. Kenyon's offspring are everywhere. Are you one of them?

 I also asked you whether you'd be interested in exposing yourself to some
 'real' believing scientists re: Genesis 1-3. Would you? Further David, 
 would

 you be interested in exposing yourself to some 'real' logicians (i.e.
 philosophers who employ logic without falling prey to rationalism).

 - Original Message - 
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 19, 2006 08:08
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

 Well, perhaps I should have kept that to myself, or shared privately with
 a
 few others, but then, wouldn't that have tended toward sectarianism?  At
 least my daughter is healed, Lance.  You should be rejoicing with me, not
 fearing dangerous sect or cult.  The difference between us on this matter
 has to do with an understanding of faith.  Please read Heb. 11, and also
 consider that I only speak of my personal belief and practice, which is
 not
 the same as insisting others do the same.  Lastly, you should consider
 discussing issues like this one with me, perhaps off the list, rather 
 than
 making erroneous judgments about me.

 David Miller

 - Original Message - 
 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:00 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

 I have read all of these passages numerous times. Yes, I do read the
 Bible.

 Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian group.

 You posted a family anecdote on TT in the last week or so. What that
 reflected concerning 'your God' spoke volumes. If anyone should be
 fearful,
 David, I'd say 'look in the mirror.

 At least our concern seems mutual. :)
 - Original Message - 
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 19, 2006 07:46
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

 Lance wrote:
 David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing
 the commandments of God'.  Everyone
 (including you along with all of those within
 your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments
 of God', David.

 You appear to be using the word sect here rather loosely.  I'm
 anti-sectarian, remember?  I do not believe that denominations are of
 God.
 It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty
 recently.

 That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing 
 the
 commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal 
 fate.
 If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of God, then
 that
 means that you transgress the commandments of God.  Such indicates that
 you
 are not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ.  Have you not read the
 following passages?

 Matthew 19:17
 (17) ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 John 14:15
 (15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 John 15:10
 (10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I
 have
 kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 1 John 2:3-4
 (3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
 (4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a
 liar,
 and the truth is not in him.

 1 John 3:22
 (22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his
 commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

 1 John 3:24
 (24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in 
 him.
 And hereby we know that he abideth in us

RE: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

2006-03-20 Thread ShieldsFamily









Oh, Jude, youre on a roll.:-)
izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 8:15
AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM







What is the Word of Faith
approach Lance?











Just because there are a few nuts and
flakes out there will you throw all healing down the





drain with them? This is why the
church in general has so many sick ppl. Sin is not understood or dealt with





most of the time because we don't want
to offend anyone. If someone would just get up there and boldly





teach truth things might begin to
change. If people could just begin to recognize what it is and were
willing





to take responsibility, repenting and
renouncing it then we could get rid of it once and for all and they would





know enough to resist when it tries to
come back. But Oh well! We can't offend anyone, they might leave





and take their offering with them.
Got to have those big tithers to pay for the building fund while the ppl





perish. Peter rightly said
If the righteous scarcely be saved 

















On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 06:20:24 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







Oh but I do rejoice with you, David. God does heal and, this
may be one of those healings. 





It was the 'word faith approach' that concerned us.







From: David Miller 











What this reminds me of is when the Pharisees complained about Jesus
healing on the Sabbath. My daughter is healed now, and she is happy, I'm
happy, my wife is happy, everybody is happy except for these 3 people who came
together and talked about how disturbing my post to TT was about it.











At this same time, Dean sent me a post complaining about my testimony
concerning childbearing, not using doctors and believing God for painless
childbirth. I don't know if I will ever understand how others cannot
simply rejoice with me when God is so good.











David Miller



















From: Judy Taylor












What truth do you refer toLance?





Are you calling him co-leader of a
sectarian group because he encourages his daughter





to believe God to speed healing of
herwrist and relieve the pain? or





Because there are many religious sects
on this TT list?











On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:13:20 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







David could 'justify' this truth better than I, Judy.







From: Judy Taylor












On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:00:09 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian group.





Can you justify this announcement Lance
by giving us a list of





the various sects that comprise this
group? Mormon is obvious,





what are the others.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

2006-03-20 Thread Dave Hansen





To avoid
WHAT?

DAVEH: Contention perhaps, such as is commonly found here?


ShieldsFamily wrote:

  
  


  
  
  
  To avoid
WHAT? That nice, positive place?
iz
  
  
  
  
  From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Dave Hansen
  Sent: Monday, March
20, 2006 12:30
AM
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] Hell BoM
  
  
  DAVEH: The Lord has provided
a way for us to
avoid it.
  
ShieldsFamily wrote: 
  
  What is the
positive message about hell? iz
  
  
  
  
  Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of 
  hell?
  
DAVEH: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer to
be more positive in my approach.
  
  


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing the commandments of God'. 
Everyone (including you along with all of those within your sect, David) 
'transgresses the commandments of God', David. You then, David, ought to be 
and, likely are, warning those non-protestants within your sect concerning 
this. Amen, I guess, for consistency if nothing else.


Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 18, 2006 16:11
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM



Dave, for what it is worth, your view of hell is also shared by many
Protestants.  In fact, a very well known hell fire and brimestone preacher
by the name of Jed Smock (www.brojed.org) believes about hell pretty much
just like you do.  Still, Jed will stand on campus and warn students 
loudly
about bur-r-r-n-n-ning in the la-a-a-ke of FI-I-I-R-R-E!  I was 
surprised

the first time I learned that Jed believed the fire he preached was
figurative. I'm curious about you. Do you ever warn people about the FIRE 
of
hell?  In other words, do you use this metaphor yourself to convey to 
people

the danger of transgressing the commandments of God?

David Miller


- Original Message - 
From: Dave

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

I did think from previous encounters that you believed there was no
literal Hell.

DAVEH:  Quite the contrary.   As I view it, hell is the physical 
separation

from God and his love.  The effect of such separation is similar to how it
would feel if you were cast into the burning garbage dump of Jerusalem,
except its effect would last forever.

Are you saying then that it is not a place?

DAVEH:  No, I did not say that.  If heaven is located in a place, then
heaven is located in a place other than where heaven is located.  So yes,
hell is a place.a place where God does not reside, nor does his love
emanate.

It is not physical?

DAVEH:  Yes, it is a physical place, but the description of the lake of 
fire

and brimstone is symbolic representation of how folks will feel who end up
there.  I do not believe people will literally be cast into a burning lake
of fire and brimstone.  That is imagery, IMHO.

If this literal Hell you speak of is not a place,

DAVEH:   Since I do believe it is a place, the remaining questions seem
irrelevant.

   Now that I've satisfied your curiosity Kevin, let me now ask where you
think the literal burning pit (hell) will be located?



Kevin Deegan wrote:
I am sorry
I did think from previous encounters that you believed there was no
literal Hell.
Are you saying then that it is not a place?
It is not physical?
When someone uses the term Literal that is synonomous with physical,
perhaps, therein lies the confusion.

If this literal Hell you speak of is not a place, where will those that
suffer this mental anguish be?
Will they be neighbors of those that do not suffer?
Can there be both joy  sorrow in the same place?
Will they be in a physical place?

Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
you have been decieved by the Devil

DAVEH:  I respectfully disagree with you on that, Kevin.  Quite the
contraryIn reality, I've been enlightened by a fellow TTer!

   I don't know why it is so difficult for you to understand my position 
on

this, Kevin.  I do believe in a literal hell.literally being separated
from God.  I just don't believe that those who reject Jesus will literally
be cast into a lake of fire and brimstone, as many believe.  Lacking the
eternal love of the Lord, those who suffer such separation will eternally
and forever suffer mental anguish at their shortsighted selfish decision 
to

choose evil over good.

   Before you had brought these BoM and DC passages to my attention, I 
had

never considered how latter-day scriptures handled this topic.  The only
time I had looked into it was several years ago in response to TTers
questioning me about it, and at that time I only looked at Bible passages
that were posted.  Perhaps it was you Kevin, I don't recall.  Back then, I
had only examined a number of Biblical passages to come to deter mine that
those who mentioned hell in the Bible were doing so symbolically when they
used the imagery of the burning trash pit of Jerusalem to reflect how one
who does not go to heaven will feel.  Posting the below passages from 
other

sources reaffirms the same conclusion.

Kevin Deegan wrote:
Then according to your own book you have been decieved by the Devil into
thinking there is No literal Hell

Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

DAVEH:   You've surprised me, Kevin!   I thought you'd want to defend your
position using material favorable to your perspective...namely, the Bible.
But that is OK, as the LDS sources you've quoted plainly sh ow the 
symbolism

of the terms used to describe hell.  Why you would quote some of them
somewhat surprises me, as they succinctly show that distinction.  I'll 
take

each passage you quoted

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

David Miller wrote:
 Do you ever warn people about
 the FIRE of hell?

DAVEH wrote:
 No, I don't do much preaching, and when
 I doI prefer to be more positive in my
 approach.

I guess the LDS organization has not restored the church then, eh?  You are 
not doing what the early church did.  :-)

David Miller 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

You, David, may be DOING what the early church DID without MEANING what the 
early church MEANT. On this one DH may be closer to the truth than DM.

- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 07:21
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

David Miller wrote:

Do you ever warn people about
the FIRE of hell?

DAVEH wrote:

No, I don't do much preaching, and when
I doI prefer to be more positive in my
approach.

I guess the LDS organization has not restored the church then, eh?  You 
are

not doing what the early church did.  :-)

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

Lance wrote:
 David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing
 the commandments of God'.  Everyone
 (including you along with all of those within
 your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments
 of God', David.

You appear to be using the word sect here rather loosely.  I'm 
anti-sectarian, remember?  I do not believe that denominations are of God. 
It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty 
recently.

That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing the 
commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal fate. 
If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of God, then that 
means that you transgress the commandments of God.  Such indicates that you 
are not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ.  Have you not read the 
following passages?

Matthew 19:17
(17) ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 14:15
(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 15:10
(10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have 
kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 2:3-4
(3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, 
and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22
(22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his 
commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:24
(24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. 
And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given 
us.

1 John 5:2-3
(2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and 
keep his commandments.
(3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his 
commandments are not grievous.

Revelation 12:17
(17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the 
remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the 
testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the 
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

You might plead lack of intelligence or that the Holy Spirit is not a 
rationalist or any number of things, but it is quite simple and true that if 
you do not keep the commandments, you are not in Christ.  Here is the reason 
that you and I cannot understand one another concerning the characteristics 
of a believer in his apprehension of knowledge and truth.

Please read the above passages seriously and don't just skip over them. 
Those who believe in Jesus keep his commandments, and his commandments are 
not grevious.  If you do not keep his commandments and you think everyone 
transgresses his commandments, not only are you wrong, but your eternal fate 
is in the balance.  The judgment of hell fire is at your door despite your 
perspective of the Incarnation of Jesus Christ.

David Miller 

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


I have read all of these passages numerous times. Yes, I do read the Bible.

Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian group.

You posted a family anecdote on TT in the last week or so. What that 
reflected concerning 'your God' spoke volumes. If anyone should be fearful, 
David, I'd say 'look in the mirror.


At least our concern seems mutual. :)
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 07:46
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM



Lance wrote:

David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing
the commandments of God'.  Everyone
(including you along with all of those within
your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments
of God', David.


You appear to be using the word sect here rather loosely.  I'm
anti-sectarian, remember?  I do not believe that denominations are of God.
It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty
recently.

That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing the
commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal fate.
If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of God, then that
means that you transgress the commandments of God.  Such indicates that 
you

are not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ.  Have you not read the
following passages?

Matthew 19:17
(17) ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 14:15
(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 15:10
(10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have
kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 2:3-4
(3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a 
liar,

and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22
(22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his
commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:24
(24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him.
And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath 
given

us.

1 John 5:2-3
(2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, 
and

keep his commandments.
(3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his
commandments are not grievous.

Revelation 12:17
(17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with 
the

remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the
testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

You might plead lack of intelligence or that the Holy Spirit is not a
rationalist or any number of things, but it is quite simple and true that 
if
you do not keep the commandments, you are not in Christ.  Here is the 
reason
that you and I cannot understand one another concerning the 
characteristics

of a believer in his apprehension of knowledge and truth.

Please read the above passages seriously and don't just skip over them.
Those who believe in Jesus keep his commandments, and his commandments are
not grevious.  If you do not keep his commandments and you think everyone
transgresses his commandments, not only are you wrong, but your eternal 
fate

is in the balance.  The judgment of hell fire is at your door despite your
perspective of the Incarnation of Jesus Christ.

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

Your suggestion is a possibility if my speaking was a matter of trying to 
imitate the early Christians.  However, I speak from my heart, from a source 
of love that dwells in my heart.  Therefore, if my speech happens to 
coincide with the early believers, I know that I am walking in the same 
spirit as they did.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


You, David, may be DOING what the early church DID without MEANING what the
early church MEANT. On this one DH may be closer to the truth than DM.


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 07:21
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


 David Miller wrote:
 Do you ever warn people about
 the FIRE of hell?

 DAVEH wrote:
 No, I don't do much preaching, and when
 I doI prefer to be more positive in my
 approach.

 I guess the LDS organization has not restored the church then, eh?  You
 are
 not doing what the early church did.  :-)

 David Miller

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

Well, perhaps I should have kept that to myself, or shared privately with a 
few others, but then, wouldn't that have tended toward sectarianism?  At 
least my daughter is healed, Lance.  You should be rejoicing with me, not 
fearing dangerous sect or cult.  The difference between us on this matter 
has to do with an understanding of faith.  Please read Heb. 11, and also 
consider that I only speak of my personal belief and practice, which is not 
the same as insisting others do the same.  Lastly, you should consider 
discussing issues like this one with me, perhaps off the list, rather than 
making erroneous judgments about me.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


I have read all of these passages numerous times. Yes, I do read the Bible.

Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian group.

You posted a family anecdote on TT in the last week or so. What that
reflected concerning 'your God' spoke volumes. If anyone should be fearful,
David, I'd say 'look in the mirror.

At least our concern seems mutual. :)
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 07:46
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


 Lance wrote:
 David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing
 the commandments of God'.  Everyone
 (including you along with all of those within
 your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments
 of God', David.

 You appear to be using the word sect here rather loosely.  I'm
 anti-sectarian, remember?  I do not believe that denominations are of God.
 It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty
 recently.

 That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing the
 commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal fate.
 If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of God, then that
 means that you transgress the commandments of God.  Such indicates that
 you
 are not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ.  Have you not read the
 following passages?

 Matthew 19:17
 (17) ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 John 14:15
 (15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 John 15:10
 (10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have
 kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 1 John 2:3-4
 (3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
 (4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a
 liar,
 and the truth is not in him.

 1 John 3:22
 (22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his
 commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

 1 John 3:24
 (24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him.
 And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath
 given
 us.

 1 John 5:2-3
 (2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God,
 and
 keep his commandments.
 (3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his
 commandments are not grievous.

 Revelation 12:17
 (17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with
 the
 remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the
 testimony of Jesus Christ.
 Revelation 14:12
 (12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the
 commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 You might plead lack of intelligence or that the Holy Spirit is not a
 rationalist or any number of things, but it is quite simple and true that
 if
 you do not keep the commandments, you are not in Christ.  Here is the
 reason
 that you and I cannot understand one another concerning the
 characteristics
 of a believer in his apprehension of knowledge and truth.

 Please read the above passages seriously and don't just skip over them.
 Those who believe in Jesus keep his commandments, and his commandments are
 not grevious.  If you do not keep his commandments and you think everyone
 transgresses his commandments, not only are you wrong, but your eternal
 fate
 is in the balance.  The judgment of hell fire is at your door despite your
 perspective of the Incarnation of Jesus Christ.

 David Miller

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM






On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:00:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian 
group.
Can you justify this announcement Lance by giving us a 
list of
the various sects that comprise this group? 
Mormon is obvious,
what are the others.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM - confounded LDS

You are not doing what the early church didDM brings up a great point. Since the LDS are a RESTORATION of the Early Church, why are you are not doing what the early church did?I checked the word CONFOUND and it seems to be the Spirit of God come upon the characters in the BoM etc. Yet it is evidenced today by a complete reversal being that the LDS are confounded and speak not a word in Salt Lake City! And all this while the LDS are Commanded to confound us PUBLICLY! DC 71 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made
manifest.Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord.9Verily, thus saith the Lord unto youthere is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper;10And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confoundedThe tables have been turned! The SP's call the LDS shudder!ARE THESE TRUE? 1 Ne 17 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said many things unto my brethren, insomuch that they were confounded and could not contend against meJacob 1 The words of his preaching unto his
brethren. He confoundeth a man who seeketh to overthrow the doctrine of ChristJacob 7:8 But behold, the Lord God poured in his Spirit into my soul, insomuch that I did confound him in all his words. Mosiah 1219 And they began to question him, that they might cross him, that thereby they might have wherewith to accuse him; but he answered them boldly, and withstood all their questions, yea, to their astonishment; for he did withstand them in all their questions, and did confound them in all their words.Where are the GREAT LDS Preachers? Hel. 5:1717And it came to pass that they did preach with great power, insomuch that they did confound many of those dissenters who had gone over from the Nephites, insomuch that they came forth and did confess their sins and were baptized unto repentance, and immediately returned to the Nephites to endeavor to repair unto them the wrongs which they had done. Since the LDS god could not find any Men you would think he could at least find some Women or Children? Does this mean Missionary BOYS? Where are they? ; ) Alma 32:23 And now, he imparteth his word by angels unto men, yea, not only men but women also. Now this is not all; little children do have words given unto them many times, which confound the wise and the learned.BTW wasn't the LDS god also CONFOUNDED when he lost 116 pages of the original BoM?David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Miller wrote: Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of hell?DAVEH wrote: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer to be more positive in my approach.I guess the LDS organization has not restored the church then, eh? You are not doing what the early church did. :-)David
Miller --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Relax. Yahoo! Mail
virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM




David could 'justify' this truth better than I, 
Judy.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 19, 2006 08:07
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM
  
  
  
  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:00:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes: Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian 
  group.
  Can you justify this announcement Lance by giving us 
  a list of
  the various sects that comprise this group? 
  Mormon is obvious,
  what are the 
others.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

I DID discuss it with you off the list but, you did not respond, David. What 
we (most believers) have here is a failure to communicate with you (your 
sect). You cite Heb 11 as if it amounted to 'case closed'. When I wrote you 
privately David, I mentioned Hobart Freeman. Please look at his legacy and, 
take care. E. W. Kenyon's offspring are everywhere. Are you one of them?


I also asked you whether you'd be interested in exposing yourself to some 
'real' believing scientists re: Genesis 1-3. Would you? Further David, would 
you be interested in exposing yourself to some 'real' logicians (i.e. 
philosophers who employ logic without falling prey to rationalism).



- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 08:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


Well, perhaps I should have kept that to myself, or shared privately with 
a

few others, but then, wouldn't that have tended toward sectarianism?  At
least my daughter is healed, Lance.  You should be rejoicing with me, not
fearing dangerous sect or cult.  The difference between us on this matter
has to do with an understanding of faith.  Please read Heb. 11, and also
consider that I only speak of my personal belief and practice, which is 
not

the same as insisting others do the same.  Lastly, you should consider
discussing issues like this one with me, perhaps off the list, rather than
making erroneous judgments about me.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


I have read all of these passages numerous times. Yes, I do read the 
Bible.


Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian group.

You posted a family anecdote on TT in the last week or so. What that
reflected concerning 'your God' spoke volumes. If anyone should be 
fearful,

David, I'd say 'look in the mirror.

At least our concern seems mutual. :)
- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 07:46
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM



Lance wrote:

David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing
the commandments of God'.  Everyone
(including you along with all of those within
your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments
of God', David.


You appear to be using the word sect here rather loosely.  I'm
anti-sectarian, remember?  I do not believe that denominations are of 
God.

It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty
recently.

That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing the
commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal fate.
If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of God, then 
that

means that you transgress the commandments of God.  Such indicates that
you
are not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ.  Have you not read the
following passages?

Matthew 19:17
(17) ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 14:15
(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 15:10
(10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I 
have

kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 2:3-4
(3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a
liar,
and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:22
(22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his
commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:24
(24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him.
And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath
given
us.

1 John 5:2-3
(2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God,
and
keep his commandments.
(3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his
commandments are not grievous.

Revelation 12:17
(17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with
the
remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the
testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12
(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

You might plead lack of intelligence or that the Holy Spirit is not a
rationalist or any number of things, but it is quite simple and true that
if
you do not keep the commandments, you are not in Christ.  Here is the
reason
that you and I cannot understand one another concerning the
characteristics
of a believer in his apprehension of knowledge and truth.

Please read the above passages seriously and don't just skip over them.
Those who believe in Jesus keep his commandments, and his commandments 
are

not grevious.  If you do not keep his commandments and you think everyone
transgresses his commandments, not only are you wrong, but your eternal
fate
is in the balance

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM




What truth do you refer toLance?
Are you calling him co-leader of a sectarian group 
because he encourages his daughter
to believe God to speed healing of herwrist and 
relieve the pain? or
Because there are many religious sects on this TT 
list?

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:13:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  David could 'justify' this truth better than I, 
  Judy.
  
From: Judy Taylor 

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:00:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian 
group.
Can you justify this announcement Lance by giving 
us a list of
the various sects that comprise this group? 
Mormon is obvious,
what are the others.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

No!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: March 19, 2006 08:19
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

  What truth do you refer toLance?
  Are you calling him co-leader of a sectarian group 
  because he encourages his daughter
  to believe God to speed healing of herwrist and 
  relieve the pain? or
  Because there are many religious sects on this TT 
  list?

  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:13:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

David could 'justify' this truth better than I, 
Judy.

  From: Judy Taylor 

  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:00:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes: Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian 
  group.
  Can you justify this announcement Lance by giving 
  us a list of
  the various sects that comprise this group? 
  Mormon is obvious,
  what are the others.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM




As to the former, I agree. As to the latter, that's 
what I'm suggesting to David but, he seems not to want engagement at that 
level.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 19, 2006 08:31
  Subject: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM
  
  
  David and Lance, why would you have the most 
  interesting discussions
  off the list? Do you think the rest of us are 
  too immature or not up to your level?
  I'm aware of E.W. Kenyon and Hobart Freeman, New 
  Thought and on and on
  These are not sects per se even if these men did get 
  off into error and legalism
  Philosophy can be every bit as evil - in fact we are 
  warned to stay away from
  philosophies of men. As for real believing 
  scientists re Genesis 1-3 - there
  are plenty of them at ICR - why not allow them to 
  clean your pipes.
  
  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  I DID discuss it with you off the list but, you did not respond, David. 
  What we (most believers) have here is a failure to communicate with you 
  (your sect). You cite Heb 11 as if it amounted to 'case closed'. When I 
  wrote you privately David, I mentioned Hobart Freeman. Please look at his 
  legacy and, take care. E. W. Kenyon's offspring are everywhere. Are you 
  one of them?
  
  I also asked you whether you'd be interested in exposing yourself to some 
  'real' believing scientists re: Genesis 1-3. Would you? Further David, 
  would you be interested in exposing yourself to some 'real' logicians 
  (i.e. philosophers who employ logic without falling prey to 
  rationalism).
  
  From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
  March 19, 2006 08:08Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM
  
  
   Well, perhaps I should have kept that to myself, or shared privately 
  with  a few others, but then, wouldn't that have tended toward 
  sectarianism? At least my daughter is healed, Lance. You 
  should be rejoicing with me, not fearing dangerous sect or cult. 
  The difference between us on this matter has to do with an 
  understanding of faith. Please read Heb. 11, and also consider 
  that I only speak of my personal belief and practice, which is  
  not the same as insisting others do the same. Lastly, you should 
  consider discussing issues like this one with me, perhaps off the 
  list, rather than making erroneous judgments about me. 
  David Miller - Original Message -  From: 
  "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell 
  BoM I have read all of these passages numerous times. 
  Yes, I do read the  Bible. Like it or not David, you 
  are co-leader of a sectarian group. You posted a family 
  anecdote on TT in the last week or so. What that reflected concerning 
  'your God' spoke volumes. If anyone should be  fearful, David, 
  I'd say 'look in the mirror. At least our concern seems 
  mutual. :) - Original Message -  From: "David Miller" 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  Sent: March 19, 2006 07:46 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell 
  BoM Lance wrote: David:On warning 
  (wo)men re:'transgressing the commandments of God'. 
  Everyone (including you along with all of those 
  within your sect, David) 'transgresses the 
  commandments of God', David. You 
  appear to be using the word "sect" here rather loosely. I'm 
  anti-sectarian, remember? I do not believe that denominations are of 
   God. It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that 
  caused us difficulty recently. That aside, 
  it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing the 
  commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal 
  fate. If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of 
  God, then  that means that you transgress the 
  commandments of God. Such indicates that you are 
  not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ. Have you not read 
  the following passages? Matthew 
  19:17 (17) ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the 
  commandments. John 14:15 (15) If ye love 
  me, keep my commandments. John 15:10 (10) 
  If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I  
  have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his 
  love. 1 John 2:3-4 (3) And hereby we do 
  know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (4) He that 
  saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a 
  liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 
  3:22 (22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we 
  keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in 
  his sight. 1 John 3:24 (24) And he that 
  keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And 
  hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath 
  given us. 1 John 5:2-3 (2) By 
  this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, 
  and keep his commandments. (3

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

I did not believe the former to have been the case, David. As to the latter, 
not unlike Judy, I've always thought you spoke from the heart. I also 
believe that you both believe that you 'know'. However..I 
needn't remind you, by name, of the host of persons over the centuries who 
'knew that they knew'!!


 Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 08:03
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM



Your suggestion is a possibility if my speaking was a matter of trying to
imitate the early Christians.  However, I speak from my heart, from a 
source

of love that dwells in my heart.  Therefore, if my speech happens to
coincide with the early believers, I know that I am walking in the same
spirit as they did.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


You, David, may be DOING what the early church DID without MEANING what 
the

early church MEANT. On this one DH may be closer to the truth than DM.


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 07:21
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM



David Miller wrote:

Do you ever warn people about
the FIRE of hell?


DAVEH wrote:

No, I don't do much preaching, and when
I doI prefer to be more positive in my
approach.


I guess the LDS organization has not restored the church then, eh?  You
are
not doing what the early church did.  :-)

David Miller

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know

how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


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--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM






Since when has truth been evaluated by how many have in 
the past gotten of the
track and fallen? As sad as that may be every one 
will stand or fall before his own
Master.

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:34:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: I did not believe the former to have been the case, David. As to 
the  latter,  not unlike Judy, I've always thought you spoke 
from the heart. I  also  believe that you both believe that you 
'know'.  However..I  needn't 
remind you, by name, of the host of persons over the  centuries 
who'knew that they knew'!!  From: "David Miller" 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Your suggestion is a possibility if my speaking was a matter of  trying 
to  imitate the early Christians. However, I speak from my 
heart,  from a   source  of love that dwells in 
my heart. Therefore, if my speech happens  to  
coincide with the early believers, I know that I am walking in the  
same  spirit as they did.   David 
Miller   - Original Message -   
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:29 AM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
Hell BoMYou, David, may be DOING what 
the early church DID without MEANING  what   the 
 early church MEANT. On this one DH may be closer to the truth than  
DM.- Original Message -  
 From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: March 19, 2006 07:21  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell 
BoMDavid Miller wrote: 
 Do you ever warn people about  the FIRE 
of hell?   DAVEH wrote:  No, 
I don't do much preaching, and when  I doI prefer to be 
more positive in my  approach.  
 I guess the LDS organization has not restored the church then,  
eh? You  are  not doing what the early 
church did. :-)   David Miller 
  --  "Let your speech be always 
with grace, seasoned with salt, that  you may  know how 
you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)  http://www.InnGlory.org 
  If you do not want to receive posts from this list, 
send an email  to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
you will be unsubscribed. If you  have a  friend 
who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he 
will be subscribed. 
--  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with 
salt, that  you may   know  how you ought to 
answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)  http://www.InnGlory.org  
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email  
to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
you will be unsubscribed. If you  have a  friend who 
wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he 
will be subscribed.-- 
 "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that  
you may   know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 
4:6)   http://www.InnGlory.org  
 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email  
to   [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
you will be unsubscribed. If you  have a   friend who 
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will be subscribed. -- 
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you  may 
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)  http://www.InnGlory.org  If 
you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM




It hasn't Judy but, untruth has.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: March 19, 2006 09:41
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM
  
  
  
  Since when has truth been evaluated by how many have 
  in the past gotten of the
  track and fallen? As sad as that may be every 
  one will stand or fall before his own
  Master.
  
  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:34:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes: I did not believe the former to have been the case, David. As 
  to the  latter,  not unlike Judy, I've always thought you 
  spoke from the heart. I  also  believe that you both believe 
  that you 'know'.  However..I  
  needn't remind you, by name, of the host of persons over the  
  centuries who'knew that they knew'!!  From: 
  "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Your 
  suggestion is a possibility if my speaking was a matter of  trying 
  to  imitate the early Christians. However, I speak from my 
  heart,  from a   source  of love that dwells 
  in my heart. Therefore, if my speech happens  to  
  coincide with the early believers, I know that I am walking in the  
  same  spirit as they did.   David 
  Miller   - Original Message -   
  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
   Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:29 AM  Subject: Re: 
  [TruthTalk] Hell BoMYou, David, may be 
  DOING what the early church DID without MEANING  what   
  the  early church MEANT. On this one DH may be closer to the truth 
  than  DM.- Original 
  Message -   From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
   Sent: March 19, 2006 07:21  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell 
  BoMDavid Miller wrote: 
   Do you ever warn people about  the 
  FIRE of hell?   DAVEH wrote: 
   No, I don't do much preaching, and when  I 
  doI prefer to be more positive in my  
  approach.   I guess the LDS organization has 
  not restored the church then,  eh? You  
  are  not doing what the early church did. :-) 
David Miller   
  --  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned 
  with salt, that  you may  know how you ought to answer 
  every man." (Colossians 4:6)  http://www.InnGlory.org 
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, 
  send an email  to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
  you will be unsubscribed. If you  have a  friend 
  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he 
  will be subscribed. 
  --  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with 
  salt, that  you may   know  how you ought to 
  answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)  http://www.InnGlory.org 
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an 
  email  to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
  you will be unsubscribed. If you  have a  friend who 
  wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he 
  will be subscribed.-- 
   "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that  
  you may   know how you ought to answer every man." 
  (Colossians 4:6)   http://www.InnGlory.org 
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an 
  email  to   [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
  you will be unsubscribed. If you  have a   friend 
  who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to   [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he 
  will be subscribed. -- 
  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you  
  may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)  
  http://www.InnGlory.org  
  If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  and you will be unsubscribed. If you  have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM




So let's just throw it all out since noone can know 
what is true and what is not anyway?
I can see where you get this idea since your mentor 
writes:

Justification means that at every point in our theological inquiry we have to 
let our knowledge, our theology, our formulations, our statements, be called into question by the very Christ toward whom they 
point, for He alone is the Truth. 
Justification means that our theological statements are of such a kind that 
they do not claim to have truth in themselves, for by their very nature they 
point away from themselves to Christ as the one Truth of God. Therefore whenever 
we claim that our theological statements or our formulations have their truth in 
themselves we are turning back into the way of self-justification. 
Out of sheer respect for the majesty of the Truth as it is revealed in the 
Holy Scriptures, we have to do our utmost to speak correctly and exactly about 
itthat is the meaning of orthodoxy and the way of humilitybut when we have done all this, we have still to confess that we 
are unfaithful servants, that all our efforts fall far short of the truth. 

My question then is: Is there no victory? Are 
we just to be passive, grovel and cringe since we are so impotent and can't know 
anything? Who are the "good and faithful servants who enter into His 
Rest?" Who are those spoken of in Luke 16:16 who press into the 
Kingdom. This is not a passive thing, it is pressing oneself in with 
energy. What exactly is the Kingdom to you Lance?

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:51:33 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  It hasn't Judy but, untruth has.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: March 19, 2006 09:41
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM



Since when has truth been evaluated by how many 
have in the past gotten of the
track and fallen? As sad as that may be every 
one will stand or fall before his own
Master.

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:34:49 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: I did not believe the former to have been the case, David. 
As to the  latter,  not unlike Judy, I've always thought you 
spoke from the heart. I  also  believe that you both believe 
that you 'know'.  However..I 
 needn't remind you, by name, of the host of persons over the  
centuries who'knew that they knew'!!  From: 
"David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Your suggestion is a possibility if my speaking was a matter of  
trying to  imitate the early Christians. However, I speak 
from my heart,  from a   source  of love 
that dwells in my heart. Therefore, if my speech happens  
to  coincide with the early believers, I know that I am walking 
in the  same  spirit as they did.  
 David Miller   - Original Message - 
  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
     Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:29 AM  Subject: Re: 
[TruthTalk] Hell BoMYou, David, may 
be DOING what the early church DID without MEANING  what  
 the  early church MEANT. On this one DH may be closer to 
the truth than  DM.- 
Original Message -   From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
     Sent: March 19, 2006 07:21  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell 
BoMDavid Miller wrote: 
 Do you ever warn people about  the 
FIRE of hell?   DAVEH wrote: 
 No, I don't do much preaching, and when  I 
doI prefer to be more positive in my  
approach.   I guess the LDS organization has 
not restored the church then,  eh? You  
are  not doing what the early church did. :-) 
  David Miller   
--  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned 
with salt, that  you may  know how you ought to 
answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)  http://www.InnGlory.org 
  If you do not want to receive posts from this 
list, send an email  to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed. If you  have a  
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
he will be subscribed.
 --  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned 
with salt, that  you may   know  how you 
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)  http://www.InnGlory.org 
  If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send 
an email  to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed. If you  have a  
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
he will be subscribed.
--  "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with 
salt, that  you may   know how you ought to answer every 
man." (Colossians 4:6)

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM - confounded LDS

2006-03-19 Thread Dave





The tables have been turned! The SP's call the LDS shudder!

DAVEH: Perhaps you are right, Kevin. I know I don't have much fight
in me at the moment. Perhaps the modern LDS people just aren't
conditioned to be contentious, which would explain why some would
rather avoid the SPers rather than confront them. 

 I would liken it to when Jesus was in court and faced with a lot of
false accusations. Given the chance to rebut the charges, he simply
remained quiet. Likewise, perhaps Mormons would rather just let
blithering idiots blither rather than jump into the mud with them. I
know I feel that way sometimes.

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  You are not doing what the early church did
  
  DM brings up a great point.
  Since the LDS are a RESTORATION of the Early Church, why are you
are not doing what the early church did?
  
  I checked the word CONFOUND and it seems to be the Spirit of God
come upon the characters in the BoM etc.
  Yet it is evidenced today by a complete reversal being that the
LDS are confounded and speak not a word in Salt Lake City!
  And all this while the LDS are Commanded to confound us
PUBLICLY! 
  DC 71 Wherefore, confound
your enemies; call
upon them to meet
you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful
their shame shall
be made manifest.Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons
against the Lord.
  nbsp9
Verily, thus saith the Lord unto youthere is no weapon that is formed
against you shall prosper;
  nbsp10
And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded
  
  The tables have been turned! The SP's call the LDS shudder!
  
  ARE THESE TRUE?
  1 Ne 17 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said many things unto
my brethren, insomuch that they were confounded and could
not contend against me
  
  Jacob 1 The words of his preaching unto his brethren. He confoundeth
a man who seeketh to overthrow the doctrine of Christ
  
  Jacob 7:8 But behold, the Lord God poured in his Spirit
into my soul, insomuch that I did confound him in all his words.
  
  Mosiah 1219
And they began to question him, that they might cross him, that thereby
they might have wherewith to accuse
him; but he answered them boldly, and withstood
all their questions, yea, to their astonishment; for he did withstand them in all
their questions, and did confound them in all their words.
  
  Where are the GREAT LDS Preachers?
  Hel. 5:17
  nbsp17
And it came to pass that they did preach
with great power,
insomuch that they did confound many of those dissenters who had
gone over from the Nephites, insomuch that they came forth and did
confess their sins and were baptized unto repentance, and
immediately returned to the Nephites to endeavor to repair unto them
the wrongs which they had done.
  
  Since the LDS god could not find any Men you would think he
could at least find some Women or Children?
  Does this mean Missionary BOYS? Where are they? ; ) 
  Alma 32:23 And now, he imparteth his word by angels unto men,
yea, not only
men but women also. Now this is not all; little children do have
words given unto them many times, which confound
the wise and the learned.
  
  BTW wasn't the LDS god also CONFOUNDED when he lost 116
pages of the original BoM?
  
  David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  David
Miller wrote:
 Do you ever warn people about
 the FIRE of hell?

DAVEH wrote:
 No, I don't do much preaching, and when
 I doI prefer to be more positive in my
 approach.

I guess the LDS organization has not restored the church then, eh? You
are 
not doing what the early church did. :-)
David Miller 



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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM - confounded LDS

A 'posture' from which a 'blithering idiot' like 
myself might learn.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dave 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: March 19, 2006 12:44
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM - 
  confounded LDS
  The tables have been turned! The SP's call the LDS 
  shudder!DAVEH: Perhaps you are right, Kevin. I 
  know I don't have much fight in me at the moment. Perhaps the modern LDS 
  people just aren't conditioned to be contentious, which would explain why some 
  would rather avoid the SPers rather than confront them. 
   I would liken it to when Jesus was in court and 
  faced with a lot of false accusations. Given the chance to rebut the 
  charges, he simply remained quiet. Likewise, perhaps Mormons would 
  rather just let blithering idiots blither rather than jump into the mud with 
  them. I know I feel that way sometimes.Kevin Deegan wrote: 

You are not doing what the early church did

DM brings up a great point.
Since the LDS are a RESTORATION of the Early Church, why are you are 
not doing what the early church did?

I checked the word CONFOUND and it seems to be the Spirit of God come 
upon the characters in the BoM etc.
Yet it is evidenced today by a complete reversal being that the LDS are 
confounded and speak not a word in Salt Lake City!
And all this while the LDS are Commanded to confound us 
PUBLICLY! 
DC 71 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to 
meet you both in public 
and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made 
manifest.Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the 
Lord. nbsp9 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto 
youthere is no weapon 
that is formed against you shall prosper; nbsp10 And if 
any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded

The tables have been turned! The SP's call the LDS 
shudder!

ARE THESE TRUE?
1 Ne 17 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said many things unto my 
brethren, insomuch that they were confounded and could not contend 
against me

Jacob 1 The words of his preaching unto his brethren. He 
confoundeth a man who seeketh to overthrow the doctrine of 
Christ

Jacob 7:8 But behold, the Lord God poured in his Spirit into my 
soul, insomuch that I did confound him in all his words.
Mosiah 1219 
And they began to question him, that they might cross him, that thereby they 
might have wherewith to accuse him; but he 
answered them boldly, and withstood all their 
questions, yea, to their astonishment; for he did withstand them in all their 
questions, and did confound them in all their words.

Where are the GREAT LDS Preachers?
Hel. 5:17 nbsp17 And it came to pass that 
they did preach 
with great power, 
insomuch that they did confound many of those dissenters who had gone 
over from the Nephites, insomuch that they came forth and did confess 
their sins and were baptized unto repentance, and immediately returned 
to the Nephites to endeavor to repair unto them the wrongs which they had 
done.
Since the LDS god could not find any Men you would think he 
could at least find some Women or Children?
Does this mean Missionary BOYS? Where are they? ; ) 

Alma 32:23 And now, he imparteth his word by angels unto men, yea, not only men but women 
also. Now this is not all; little children do have words 
given unto them many times, which confound the 
wise and the learned.

BTW wasn't the LDS god also CONFOUNDED when he lost 116 pages 
of the original BoM?David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
David 
  Miller wrote: Do you ever warn people about the 
  FIRE of hell?DAVEH wrote: No, I don't do much preaching, 
  and when I doI prefer to be more positive in my 
  approach.I guess the LDS organization has not restored the church 
  then, eh? You are not doing what the early church did. :-)David Miller -- 
 ~~~
 Dave Hansen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.langlitz.com
 ~~~
 If you wish to receive
 things I find interesting,
 I maintain six email lists...
 JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
 STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

Lance, I don't know what you are talking about.  We do have a failure to 
communicate here.

1.  Heb. 11 isn't meant to be case closed, just helpful.
2.  I don't know who Hobart Freeman is, or his legacy.
3.  I am familiar a little with E.W. Kenyon.  No, I am not one of his 
offspring.
4.  Exposing myself to believing scientists?  I'm not sure what you mean by 
exposing myself. I have engaged many believing scientists about this.  What 
I'm really more interested in are theologians.  The few I have engaged can't 
handle the science side, and generally they plead ignorance in our 
discussion, falling back on I'm a theologian... sorry...  Would I expose 
myself to scientists and theologians?  Of course.  Your question seems 
nonsensical.
5.  Real logicians?  Of course I would welcome that.

I could be wrong, but as best I can tell, in theological circles, there 
appear to be biases expressed against concepts like rationalism and 
dualism and reductionism etc.  You seem to try and operate in line with 
those biases without really understanding the reasoning behind the 
criticisms leveled against the ideas expressed by these words.

David Miller

- Original Message - 
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


I DID discuss it with you off the list but, you did not respond, David. What
we (most believers) have here is a failure to communicate with you (your
sect). You cite Heb 11 as if it amounted to 'case closed'. When I wrote you
privately David, I mentioned Hobart Freeman. Please look at his legacy and,
take care. E. W. Kenyon's offspring are everywhere. Are you one of them?

I also asked you whether you'd be interested in exposing yourself to some
'real' believing scientists re: Genesis 1-3. Would you? Further David, would
you be interested in exposing yourself to some 'real' logicians (i.e.
philosophers who employ logic without falling prey to rationalism).


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 08:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


 Well, perhaps I should have kept that to myself, or shared privately with
 a
 few others, but then, wouldn't that have tended toward sectarianism?  At
 least my daughter is healed, Lance.  You should be rejoicing with me, not
 fearing dangerous sect or cult.  The difference between us on this matter
 has to do with an understanding of faith.  Please read Heb. 11, and also
 consider that I only speak of my personal belief and practice, which is
 not
 the same as insisting others do the same.  Lastly, you should consider
 discussing issues like this one with me, perhaps off the list, rather than
 making erroneous judgments about me.

 David Miller

 - Original Message - 
 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:00 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


 I have read all of these passages numerous times. Yes, I do read the
 Bible.

 Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian group.

 You posted a family anecdote on TT in the last week or so. What that
 reflected concerning 'your God' spoke volumes. If anyone should be
 fearful,
 David, I'd say 'look in the mirror.

 At least our concern seems mutual. :)
 - Original Message - 
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 19, 2006 07:46
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


 Lance wrote:
 David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing
 the commandments of God'.  Everyone
 (including you along with all of those within
 your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments
 of God', David.

 You appear to be using the word sect here rather loosely.  I'm
 anti-sectarian, remember?  I do not believe that denominations are of
 God.
 It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty
 recently.

 That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing the
 commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal fate.
 If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of God, then
 that
 means that you transgress the commandments of God.  Such indicates that
 you
 are not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ.  Have you not read the
 following passages?

 Matthew 19:17
 (17) ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 John 14:15
 (15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 John 15:10
 (10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I
 have
 kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 1 John 2:3-4
 (3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
 (4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a
 liar,
 and the truth is not in him.

 1 John 3:22
 (22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his
 commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

 1 John 3:24

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM




What this reminds me of is when the Pharisees complained about Jesus 
healing on the Sabbath. My daughter is healed now, and she is happy, I'm 
happy, my wife is happy, everybody is happy except for these 3 people who came 
together and talked about how disturbing my post to TT was about it.

At this same time, Dean sent me a post complaining about my testimony 
concerning childbearing, not using doctors and believing God for painless 
childbirth. I don't know if I will ever understand how others cannot 
simply rejoice with me when God is so good.

David Miller



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:19 
AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM
  
  What truth do you refer toLance?
  Are you calling him co-leader of a sectarian group 
  because he encourages his daughter
  to believe God to speed healing of herwrist and 
  relieve the pain? or
  Because there are many religious sects on this TT 
  list?
  
  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:13:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
David could 'justify' this truth better than I, 
Judy.

  From: Judy Taylor 
  
  On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:00:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes: Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian 
  group.
  Can you justify this announcement Lance by giving 
  us a list of
  the various sects that comprise this group? 
  Mormon is obvious,
  what are the others.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


Dean is anti- charismatic. He would challenge most of your theology as relates to faith and healing. No surprise. 

jd

-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



What this reminds me of is when the Pharisees complained about Jesus healing on the Sabbath. My daughter is healed now, and she is happy, I'm happy, my wife is happy, everybody is happy except for these 3 people who came together and talked about how disturbing my post to TT was about it.

At this same time, Dean sent me a post complaining about my testimony concerning childbearing, not using doctors and believing God for painless childbirth. I don't know if I will ever understand how others cannot simply rejoice with me when God is so good.

David Miller



- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

What truth do you refer toLance?
Are you calling him co-leader of a sectarian group because he encourages his daughter
to believe God to speed healing of herwrist and relieve the pain? or
Because there are many religious sects on this TT list?

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:13:20 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

David could 'justify' this truth better than I, Judy.

From: Judy Taylor 

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:00:09 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian group.
Can you justify this announcement Lance by giving us a list of
the various sects that comprise this group? Mormon is obvious,
what are the others.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

There is no thing as a NON SECTARIAN unless you meana Unitarian who has no beliefsDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Lance wrote: David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing the commandments of God'. Everyone (including you along with all of those within your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments of God', David.You appear to be using the word "sect" here rather loosely. I'm anti-sectarian, remember? I do not believe that denominations are of God. It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty recently.That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing the commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal fate. If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of God, then that means that you
 transgress the commandments of God. Such indicates that you are not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ. Have you not read the following passages?Matthew 19:17(17) ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.John 14:15(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.John 15:10(10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.1 John 2:3-4(3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.(4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.1 John 3:22(22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.1 John 3:24(24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath
 given us.1 John 5:2-3(2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.(3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.Revelation 12:17(17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.Revelation 14:12(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.You might plead lack of intelligence or that the Holy Spirit is not a rationalist or any number of things, but it is quite simple and true that if you do not keep the commandments, you are not in Christ. Here is the reason that you and I cannot understand one another concerning the characteristics of a believer in his apprehension of knowledge and truth.Please read
 the above passages seriously and don't just skip over them. Those who believe in Jesus keep his commandments, and his commandments are not grevious. If you do not keep his commandments and you think everyone transgresses his commandments, not only are you wrong, but your eternal fate is in the balance. The judgment of hell fire is at your door despite your perspective of the Incarnation of Jesus Christ.David Miller --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM - confounded LDS

But Jesus did not have a command as in DC 71 COMMANDING him to confound. Why all the verses on confounding when to all observers it would seem that it is in reality the LDS who are confounded? Seems the LDS god has called and none have answered. Men women or children. On paper in 1Nep 17 LDS are preach but in Reality, The SP's preach and none can contend against them What does this say about the Power of Mormonism?And as answwer to the dry ink of Helaman, The SP's preach with great powerand LDS come forthe outside the gates of the temple confess their sins and become Christians! What does this say about the Power of Mormonism?Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The tables have been turned! The SP's
call the LDS shudder!DAVEH: Perhaps you are right, Kevin. I know I don't have much fight in me at the moment. Perhaps the modern LDS people just aren't conditioned to be contentious, which would explain why some would rather avoid the SPers rather than confront them. I would liken it to when Jesus was in court and faced with a lot of false accusations. Given the chance to rebut the charges, he simply remained quiet. Likewise, perhaps Mormons would rather just let blithering idiots blither rather than jump into the mud with them. I know I feel that way sometimes.Kevin Deegan wrote: You are not doing what the early church didDM brings up a great point. Since the LDS are a RESTORATION of the Early Church, why are you are not doing what the
early church did?I checked the word CONFOUND and it seems to be the Spirit of God come upon the characters in the BoM etc. Yet it is evidenced today by a complete reversal being that the LDS are confounded and speak not a word in Salt Lake City! And all this while the LDS are Commanded to confound us PUBLICLY! DC 71 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest.Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord. 9Verily, thus
saith the Lord unto youthere is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper; 10And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confoundedThe tables have been turned! The SP's call the LDS shudder!ARE THESE TRUE? 1 Ne 17 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said many things unto my brethren, insomuch that they were confounded and could not contend against meJacob 1 The words of his preaching unto his brethren. He confoundeth a man who seeketh to overthrow the doctrine of ChristJacob 7:8 But behold, the Lord God poured in his Spirit into my soul, insomuch that I did
confound him in all his words. Mosiah 1219 And they began to question him, that they might cross him, that thereby they might have wherewith to accuse him; but he answered them boldly, and withstood all their questions, yea, to their astonishment; for he did withstand them in all their questions, and did confound them in all their words.Where are the GREAT LDS Preachers? Hel. 5:17 17And it came to pass that they did preach with great power, insomuch that they did confound many of those dissenters who had gone over from the Nephites, insomuch that they came forth and did confess their sins and were baptized unto repentance, and immediately returned to the Nephites to endeavor to repair unto them the wrongs which they had done. Since the LDS god could not find any Men you would think he could at least find some Women or Children? Does this mean Missionary BOYS? Where are they? ; ) Alma 32:23 And now, he imparteth his word by angels unto men, yea, not only men but women also. Now this is not all; little children do have words given unto them many times, which confound the wise and the learned.BTW wasn't the LDS god also CONFOUNDED when he lost 116 pages of the original BoM?David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Miller wrote: Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of hell?DAVEH wrote: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer to be more positive in my approach.I guess the LDS organization has not restored the church then, eh? You are not doing what the early church did. :-)David Miller
--~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM - confounded LDS

Where are the valiant ones like in Helaman? LDS don't have even one that believes thier gods words inDC 71?No one believes the promise of DC 71? there is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper; 10And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confoundedI lift my voice on a regular basis right outside your solemn assemblies and NONE can answer. What does this say about the Power of Mormonism? These verses are not worth the paper they are printed on.Dave
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The tables have been turned! The SP's call the LDS shudder!DAVEH: Perhaps you are right, Kevin. I know I don't have much fight in me at the moment. Perhaps the modern LDS people just aren't conditioned to be contentious, which would explain why some would rather avoid the SPers rather than confront them. I would liken it to when Jesus was in court and faced with a lot of false accusations. Given the chance to rebut the charges, he simply remained quiet. Likewise, perhaps Mormons would rather just let blithering idiots blither rather than jump into the mud with them. I know I feel that way sometimes.Kevin Deegan wrote: You are not doing what
the early church didDM brings up a great point. Since the LDS are a RESTORATION of the Early Church, why are you are not doing what the early church did?I checked the word CONFOUND and it seems to be the Spirit of God come upon the characters in the BoM etc. Yet it is evidenced today by a complete reversal being that the LDS are confounded and speak not a word in Salt Lake City! And all this while the LDS are Commanded to confound us PUBLICLY! DC 71 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest.Wherefore, let them bring forth
their strong reasons against the Lord. 9Verily, thus saith the Lord unto youthere is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper; 10And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confoundedThe tables have been turned! The SP's call the LDS shudder!ARE THESE TRUE? 1 Ne 17 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said many things unto my brethren, insomuch that they were confounded and could not contend against meJacob 1 The words of his preaching unto his brethren. He confoundeth
a man who seeketh to overthrow the doctrine of ChristJacob 7:8 But behold, the Lord God poured in his Spirit into my soul, insomuch that I did confound him in all his words. Mosiah 1219 And they began to question him, that they might cross him, that thereby they might have wherewith to accuse him; but he answered them boldly, and withstood all their questions, yea, to their astonishment; for he did withstand them in all their questions, and did confound them in all their words.Where are the GREAT LDS Preachers? Hel. 5:17
17And it came to pass that they did preach with great power, insomuch that they did confound many of those dissenters who had gone over from the Nephites, insomuch that they came forth and did confess their sins and were baptized unto repentance, and immediately returned to the Nephites to endeavor to repair unto them the wrongs which they had done. Since the LDS god could not find any Men you would think he could at least find some Women or Children? Does this mean Missionary BOYS? Where are they? ; ) Alma 32:23 And now, he imparteth his word by angels unto men, yea, not only men but women also. Now this is not all; little children do have words given unto them many times, which confound the wise and the learned.BTW wasn't the LDS god also CONFOUNDED when he lost 116 pages of the original BoM?David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Miller wrote: Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of hell?DAVEH wrote: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer to be more positive in my approach.I guess the LDS organization has not restored the church
then, eh? You are not doing what the early church did. :-)David Miller --~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM - confounded LDS

Riddle me this one Batman!Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A 'posture' from which a 'blithering idiot' like myself might learn.- Original Message - From: Dave To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 19, 2006 12:44 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM - confounded LDS The tables have been turned! The SP's call the LDS shudder!DAVEH: Perhaps you are right, Kevin. I know I don't have much fight in me at the moment. Perhaps the modern LDS people just aren't conditioned to be contentious, which would explain why some would rather avoid the SPers rather than confront them. I would liken it to when Jesus was in court and faced with a lot of false accusations. Given the chance to rebut the charges, he simply remained quiet. Likewise, perhaps Mormons would rather just let blithering idiots blither rather than jump into the mud with them. I know I feel that way sometimes.Kevin Deegan wrote: You are not doing what the early church did
DM brings up a great point. Since the LDS are a RESTORATION of the Early Church, why are you are not doing what the early church did?I checked the word CONFOUND and it seems to be the Spirit of God come upon the characters in the BoM etc. Yet it is evidenced today by a complete reversal being that the LDS are confounded and speak not a word in Salt Lake City! And all this while the LDS are Commanded to confound us PUBLICLY! DC 71 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest.Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord. 9Verily, thus saith the Lord unto youthere is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper; 10And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confoundedThe tables have been turned! The SP's call the LDS shudder!ARE THESE TRUE? 1 Ne 17 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said many things unto my brethren, insomuch that they were confounded and could not contend against meJacob 1 The words of his preaching unto his brethren. He confoundeth
a man who seeketh to overthrow the doctrine of ChristJacob 7:8 But behold, the Lord God poured in his Spirit into my soul, insomuch that I did confound him in all his words. Mosiah 1219 And they began to question him, that they might cross him, that thereby they might have wherewith to accuse him; but he answered them boldly, and withstood all their questions, yea, to their astonishment; for he did withstand them in all their questions, and did confound them in all their words.Where are the GREAT LDS Preachers? Hel. 5:17
17And it came to pass that they did preach with great power, insomuch that they did confound many of those dissenters who had gone over from the Nephites, insomuch that they came forth and did confess their sins and were baptized unto repentance, and immediately returned to the Nephites to endeavor to repair unto them the wrongs which they had done. Since the LDS god could not find any Men you would think he could at least find some Women or Children? Does this mean Missionary BOYS? Where are they? ; ) Alma 32:23 And now, he imparteth his word by angels unto men, yea, not only men but women also. Now this is not all; little children do have words given unto them many times, which confound the wise and the learned.BTW wasn't the LDS god also CONFOUNDED when he lost 116 pages of the original BoM?David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Miller wrote: Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of hell?DAVEH wrote: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer to be more positive in my approach.I guess the LDS organization has not restored the church
then, eh? You are not doing what the early church did. :-)David Miller --~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

Unitarians, of course, have beliefs.

Here is a definition of sectarian that allows many to escape the curse of "Sectarian !!"

Sectarianism refers (usually pejoratively) to a rigid adherence to a particular sect or party or denomination. It often implies discrimination, denunciation, or violence against those outside the sect. The term is most often used to refer to religious sectarianism, involving conflict between members of different religions or denominations of the same religion. It is also frequently used to refer to political sectarianism, generally on the part of a tight-knit political faction or party.
Sectarianism may, in the abstract, be characterized by dogmatism and inflexibility; sentimental or axiomatic adherence to an idea, belief or tradition; and idealism that provides a sense of continuity, orientation, and certainty. As a pejorative term, accusations of sectarianism may sometimes be used to demonize an opposing group.

-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is no thing as a NON SECTARIAN unless you meana Unitarian who has no beliefsDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Lance wrote: David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing the commandments of God'. Everyone (including you along with all of those within your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments of God', David.You appear to be using the word "sect" here rather loosely. I'm anti-sectarian, remember? I do not believe that denominations are of God. It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty recently.That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing the commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal fate. If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of God, then that means that you transgress the commandments of God. Such indicates that you are not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ. Have you not read the following passages?Matthew 19:17(17) if thou wilt enter int
o life, keep the commandments.John 14:15(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.John 15:10(10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.1 John 2:3-4(3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.(4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.1 John 3:22(22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.1 John 3:24(24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.1 John 5:2-3(2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.(3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.Revel
ation 12:17(17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.Revelation 14:12(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.You might plead lack of intelligence or that the Holy Spirit is not a rationalist or any number of things, but it is quite simple and true that if you do not keep the commandments, you are not in Christ. Here is the reason that you and I cannot understand one another concerning the characteristics of a believer in his apprehension of knowledge and truth.Please read the above passages seriously and don't just skip over them. Those who believe in Jesus keep his commandments, and his commandments are not grevious. If you do not keep his commandments and you think everyone transgresses his commandments, not only are you wrong, but your eternal fate is in the
balance. The judgment of hell fire is at your door despite your perspective of the Incarnation of Jesus Christ.David Miller --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

OH like Paul  For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Unitarians, of course, have beliefs.Here is a definition of sectarian that allows many to escape the curse of "Sectarian !!"  Sectarianism refers (usually pejoratively) to a rigid adherence to a particular sect or party or denomination. It often implies discrimination, denunciation, or violence against those outside the sect. The term is most often used to refer to
 religious sectarianism, involving conflict between members of different religions or denominations of the same religion. It is also frequently used to refer to political sectarianism, generally on the part of a tight-knit political faction or party.  Sectarianism may, in the abstract, be characterized by dogmatism and inflexibility; sentimental or axiomatic adherence to an idea, belief or tradition; and idealism that provides a sense of continuity, orientation, and certainty. As a pejorative term, accusations of sectarianism may sometimes be used to demonize an opposing group.-- Original message -- From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is no thing as a NON SECTARIAN unless you meana Unitarian who has no beliefsDavid Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   Lance wrote: David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing the commandments of God'. Everyone (including you along with all of those within your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments of God', David.You appear to be using the word "sect" here rather loosely. I'm anti-sectarian, remember? I do not believe that denominations are of God. It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty recently.That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing the commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal fate. If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of God, then that means that you transgress the commandments of God. Such indicates that you are not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ. Have you not read the following passages?Matthew
 19:17(17)  if thou wilt enter int o life, keep the commandments.John 14:15(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.John 15:10(10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.1 John 2:3-4(3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.(4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.1 John 3:22(22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.1 John 3:24(24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.1 John 5:2-3(2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.(3) For this is the love of
 God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.Revel ation 12:17(17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.Revelation 14:12(12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.You might plead lack of intelligence or that the Holy Spirit is not a rationalist or any number of things, but it is quite simple and true that if you do not keep the commandments, you are not in Christ. Here is the reason that you and I cannot understand one another concerning the characteristics of a believer in his apprehension of knowledge and truth.Please read the above passages seriously and don't just skip over them. Those who believe in Jesus keep his commandments, and his commandments are not grevious. If you do
 not keep his commandments and you think everyone transgresses his commandments, not only are you wrong, but your eternal fate is in the balance. The judgment of hell fire is at your door despite your perspective of the Incarnation of Jesus Christ.David Miller --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.  Brings words and photos together (easily) withPhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


A discussion between DM and apracticing scientist would be most interesting !! 

jd

-- Original message -- From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



As to the former, I agree. As to the latter, that's what I'm suggesting to David but, he seems not to want engagement at that level.

- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: March 19, 2006 08:31
Subject: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


David and Lance, why would you have the most interesting discussions
off the list? Do you think the rest of us are too immature or not up to your level?
I'm aware of E.W. Kenyon and Hobart Freeman, New Thought and on and on
These are not sects per se even if these men did get off into error and legalism
Philosophy can be every bit as evil - in fact we are warned to stay away from
philosophies of men. As for real believing scientists re Genesis 1-3 - there
are plenty of them at ICR - why not allow them to clean your pipes.

From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I DID discuss it with you off the list but, you did not respond, David. What we (most believers) have here is a failure to communicate with you (your sect). You cite Heb 11 as if it amounted to 'case closed'. When I wrote you privately David, I mentioned Hobart Freeman. Please look at his legacy and, take care. E. W. Kenyon's offspring are everywhere. Are you one of them?

I also asked you whether you'd be interested in exposing yourself to some 'real' believing scientists re: Genesis 1-3. Would you? Further David, would you be interested in exposing yourself to some 'real' logicians (i.e. philosophers who employ logic without falling prey to rationalism).

From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: March 19, 2006 08:08Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


 Well, perhaps I should have kept that to myself, or shared privately with  a few others, but then, wouldn't that have tended toward sectarianism? At least my daughter is healed, Lance. You should be rejoicing with me, not fearing dangerous sect or cult. The difference between us on this matter has to do with an understanding of faith. Please read Heb. 11, and also consider that I only speak of my personal belief and practice, which is  not the same as insisting others do the same. Lastly, you should consider discussing issues like this one with me, perhaps off the list, rather than making erroneous judgments about me. David Miller - Original Message -  From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, March 1
9, 2006 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM I have read all of these passages numerous times. Yes, I do read the  Bible. Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian group. You posted a family anecdote on TT in the last week or so. What that reflected concerning 'your God' spoke volumes. If anyone should be  fearful, David, I'd say 'look in the mirror. At least our concern seems mutual. :) - Original Message -  From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: March 19, 2006 07:46 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM Lance wrote: David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing the commandments of God'. Everyone (including you along with all of those within
 your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments of God', David. You appear to be using the word "sect" here rather loosely. I'm anti-sectarian, remember? I do not believe that denominations are of  God. It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty recently. That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing the commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal fate. If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of God, then  that means that you transgress the commandments of God. Such indicates that you are not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ. Have you not read the following passages? Matthew 19:17 (17) ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. John
 14:15 (15) If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 15:10 (10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I  have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 1 John 2:3-4 (3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 3:22 (22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1 John 3:24 (24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 1 John 5:2-3 (2) By this we know that we love the child
ren of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. (3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


You might plead lack of intelligence or that the Holy Spirit is not a rationalist or any number of things, but it is quite simple and true that if you do not keep the commandments, you are not in Christ. Here is the reason that you and I cannot understand one another concerning the characteristics of a believer in his apprehension of knowledge and truth.

1. Jesus in His "sermon on the mount" assumed that all in the crowd were evil ("If you being evil know how ...) Does this mean that the parents of John the B were not in the crowd? And would the assumption apply to you, if you had been in attendance? It is in this very sermon that He tells them to be perfect? Does this mean the indwelling was offered to this multitude? Did Chrsit expect this crowd to obey all of why He said in the sermon. And when was the last time you cut off your hand or plucked your eye -- or haven't you ever committed such sins? 
2. Is sin only "transgression of law?" 
3. When we are told that we are " .. falling short of the glory of God," how is that a present time occurrence? 
4. If the saint were actually "dead to sin," why the continued teaching against sin and the constant [implied] call to [begin again] avoiding sin?

RE: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM











What is the positive message about hell?
iz











Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of hell?


DAVEH: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer to
be more positive in my approach.

RE: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

Lance and cohorts, please stop referring to David Miller's sect.  Can you
identify or name any such sect? Why do you insist on such arrogant insults?
David please close this snakepit.  izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 5:38 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing the commandments of God'. 
Everyone (including you along with all of those within your sect, David) 
'transgresses the commandments of God', David. You then, David, ought to be 
and, likely are, warning those non-protestants within your sect concerning 
this. Amen, I guess, for consistency if nothing else.

 Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 18, 2006 16:11
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

 Dave, for what it is worth, your view of hell is also shared by many
 Protestants.  In fact, a very well known hell fire and brimestone preacher
 by the name of Jed Smock (www.brojed.org) believes about hell pretty much
 just like you do.  Still, Jed will stand on campus and warn students 
 loudly
 about bur-r-r-n-n-ning in the la-a-a-ke of FI-I-I-R-R-E!  I was 
 surprised
 the first time I learned that Jed believed the fire he preached was
 figurative. I'm curious about you. Do you ever warn people about the FIRE 
 of
 hell?  In other words, do you use this metaphor yourself to convey to 
 people
 the danger of transgressing the commandments of God?

 David Miller

 - Original Message - 
 From: Dave
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 2:34 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

 I did think from previous encounters that you believed there was no
 literal Hell.

 DAVEH:  Quite the contrary.   As I view it, hell is the physical 
 separation
 from God and his love.  The effect of such separation is similar to how it
 would feel if you were cast into the burning garbage dump of Jerusalem,
 except its effect would last forever.

 Are you saying then that it is not a place?

 DAVEH:  No, I did not say that.  If heaven is located in a place, then
 heaven is located in a place other than where heaven is located.  So yes,
 hell is a place.a place where God does not reside, nor does his love
 emanate.

 It is not physical?

 DAVEH:  Yes, it is a physical place, but the description of the lake of 
 fire
 and brimstone is symbolic representation of how folks will feel who end up
 there.  I do not believe people will literally be cast into a burning lake
 of fire and brimstone.  That is imagery, IMHO.

 If this literal Hell you speak of is not a place,

 DAVEH:   Since I do believe it is a place, the remaining questions seem
 irrelevant.

Now that I've satisfied your curiosity Kevin, let me now ask where you
 think the literal burning pit (hell) will be located?

 Kevin Deegan wrote:
 I am sorry
 I did think from previous encounters that you believed there was no
 literal Hell.
 Are you saying then that it is not a place?
 It is not physical?
 When someone uses the term Literal that is synonomous with physical,
 perhaps, therein lies the confusion.

 If this literal Hell you speak of is not a place, where will those that
 suffer this mental anguish be?
 Will they be neighbors of those that do not suffer?
 Can there be both joy  sorrow in the same place?
 Will they be in a physical place?

 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 you have been decieved by the Devil

 DAVEH:  I respectfully disagree with you on that, Kevin.  Quite the
 contraryIn reality, I've been enlightened by a fellow TTer!

I don't know why it is so difficult for you to understand my position 
 on
 this, Kevin.  I do believe in a literal hell.literally being separated
 from God.  I just don't believe that those who reject Jesus will literally
 be cast into a lake of fire and brimstone, as many believe.  Lacking the
 eternal love of the Lord, those who suffer such separation will eternally
 and forever suffer mental anguish at their shortsighted selfish decision 
 to
 choose evil over good.

Before you had brought these BoM and DC passages to my attention, I 
 had
 never considered how latter-day scriptures handled this topic.  The only
 time I had looked into it was several years ago in response to TTers
 questioning me about it, and at that time I only looked at Bible passages
 that were posted.  Perhaps it was you Kevin, I don't recall.  Back then, I
 had only examined a number of Biblical passages to come to deter mine that
 those who mentioned hell in the Bible were doing so symbolically when they
 used the imagery of the burning trash pit of Jerusalem to reflect how one
 who does not go to heaven will feel.  Posting the below passages from 
 other
 sources reaffirms the same conclusion.

 Kevin Deegan wrote:
 Then according to your own book you have been decieved by the Devil into
 thinking

RE: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

The problem with you, Lance, is that you live an insular life; thinking that
others who don't agree with you don't get out enough. My husband is a
medical doctor and research scientist who believes exactly as DM does, and
he knows many others who believe as he does.  Stop being so narrow minded
about what real scientists believe. izzy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:21 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

I DID discuss it with you off the list but, you did not respond, David. What

we (most believers) have here is a failure to communicate with you (your 
sect). You cite Heb 11 as if it amounted to 'case closed'. When I wrote you 
privately David, I mentioned Hobart Freeman. Please look at his legacy and, 
take care. E. W. Kenyon's offspring are everywhere. Are you one of them?

I also asked you whether you'd be interested in exposing yourself to some 
'real' believing scientists re: Genesis 1-3. Would you? Further David, would

you be interested in exposing yourself to some 'real' logicians (i.e. 
philosophers who employ logic without falling prey to rationalism).


- Original Message - 
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: March 19, 2006 08:08
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


 Well, perhaps I should have kept that to myself, or shared privately with 
 a
 few others, but then, wouldn't that have tended toward sectarianism?  At
 least my daughter is healed, Lance.  You should be rejoicing with me, not
 fearing dangerous sect or cult.  The difference between us on this matter
 has to do with an understanding of faith.  Please read Heb. 11, and also
 consider that I only speak of my personal belief and practice, which is 
 not
 the same as insisting others do the same.  Lastly, you should consider
 discussing issues like this one with me, perhaps off the list, rather than
 making erroneous judgments about me.

 David Miller

 - Original Message - 
 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:00 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


 I have read all of these passages numerous times. Yes, I do read the 
 Bible.

 Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian group.

 You posted a family anecdote on TT in the last week or so. What that
 reflected concerning 'your God' spoke volumes. If anyone should be 
 fearful,
 David, I'd say 'look in the mirror.

 At least our concern seems mutual. :)
 - Original Message - 
 From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: March 19, 2006 07:46
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM


 Lance wrote:
 David:On warning (wo)men re:'transgressing
 the commandments of God'.  Everyone
 (including you along with all of those within
 your sect, David) 'transgresses the commandments
 of God', David.

 You appear to be using the word sect here rather loosely.  I'm
 anti-sectarian, remember?  I do not believe that denominations are of 
 God.
 It was Dean's tendency toward sectarianism that caused us difficulty
 recently.

 That aside, it is comments like this one about everyone transgressing the
 commandments of God that cause me deep concern for your own eternal fate.
 If you think that everyone transgresses the commandments of God, then 
 that
 means that you transgress the commandments of God.  Such indicates that
 you
 are not be abiding in the doctrine of Christ.  Have you not read the
 following passages?

 Matthew 19:17
 (17) ... if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 John 14:15
 (15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 John 15:10
 (10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I 
 have
 kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

 1 John 2:3-4
 (3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
 (4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a
 liar,
 and the truth is not in him.

 1 John 3:22
 (22) And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his
 commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

 1 John 3:24
 (24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him.
 And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath
 given
 us.

 1 John 5:2-3
 (2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God,
 and
 keep his commandments.
 (3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his
 commandments are not grievous.

 Revelation 12:17
 (17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with
 the
 remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the
 testimony of Jesus Christ.
 Revelation 14:12
 (12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the
 commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 You might plead lack of intelligence or that the Holy Spirit

RE: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM









Perhaps they enjoy disturbing themselves. Meanwhile,
we rejoice. J izzy











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
 Miller
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 2:00
PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM







What this reminds me of is when the Pharisees complained about Jesus
healing on the Sabbath. My daughter is healed now, and she is happy, I'm
happy, my wife is happy, everybody is happy except for these 3 people who came
together and talked about how disturbing my post to TT was about it.











At this same time, Dean sent me a post complaining about my testimony
concerning childbearing, not using doctors and believing God for painless
childbirth. I don't know if I will ever understand how others cannot
simply rejoice with me when God is so good.











David Miller



















- Original Message - 





From: Judy Taylor






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org






Sent: Sunday, March 19,
2006 8:19 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Hell BoM











What truth do you refer toLance?





Are you calling him co-leader of a
sectarian group because he encourages his daughter





to believe God to speed healing of
herwrist and relieve the pain? or





Because there are many religious sects
on this TT list?











On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:13:20 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







David could 'justify' this truth better than I, Judy.







From: Judy Taylor












On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 08:00:09 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Like it or not David, you are co-leader of a sectarian group.





Can you justify this announcement Lance
by giving us a list of





the various sects that comprise this
group? Mormon is obvious,





what are the others.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM

2006-03-19 Thread Dave Hansen





DAVEH: The Lord has provided a way for us to avoid it.

ShieldsFamily wrote:

  
  

  
  
  
  What is the
positive message about hell?
iz
  
  
  
  
  Do you ever warn people about the FIRE of 
  hell?
  
DAVEH: No, I don't do much preaching, and when I doI prefer to
be more positive in my approach.
  
  


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] Hell BoM