Re: Dragging widgets

[Roger Eller via use-livecode]

On Mar 2, 2017 3:08 AM, "Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode" <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Is menu driven scripting really programming? (500-900 words, on my desk
by Monday).
>
> Why do I feel that menu driven scripting is like driving an automatic car
(last time I drove one
> of those I crashed it by using my left foot to press on the "clutch"),
while LiveCode feels like
> driving a manual transmission car, and C++, PASCAL, et al are rather like
building your own
> car before you drive the thing?
>
>>   I prefer to write my own code and find that this is very often quicker
> Richmond.

There used to be (might still be / haven't checked) a menu in the LC Script
Editor to "Insert control structure"  which was good for noobs to get
started with switch statements, etc.

~Roger
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Re: Dragging widgets

[Dan Brown via use-livecode]

Eve looks to be the a very promising language for producing html5
applications. The browser IDE is clean and beautifully presented
http://play.witheve.com/#/examples/flappy.eve


On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 8:07 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> No, HYPE is not 'serious' competition; it might be something that squishes
> LiveCode's HTML5 extension
> if LiveCode don't buck up and get on with things in that direction.
>
> On 3/1/17 11:07 pm, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> 1. mar. 2017 kl. 20.40 skrev Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
>>>
>>> I just downloaded HYPE from Tumult: this is where some serious
>>> competition is coming from.
>>>
>> If animated content is what you want to build, then, yes. But it is
>> nowhere near the functionality we expect and get from LC. From time to time
>> I use Hype to make animated and interactive content for my students, but
>> when I need to make some serious applications that rely on variables,
>> arrays, writing to and reading from external files, manipulate files and
>> folders on the host system, use controls like radio buttons or check boxes,
>> use menus or editable fields, there is no way this can be done in Hype 3.0
>> without writing html, css and java script manually.
>>
>> The kind of actions you are able to use are limited to mouse/touch
>> actions. Personally I am no big fan of menu driven scripting.
>>
>
> Is menu driven scripting really programming? (500-900 words, on my desk by
> Monday).
>
> Why do I feel that menu driven scripting is like driving an automatic car
> (last time I drove one
> of those I crashed it by using my left foot to press on the "clutch"),
> while LiveCode feels like
> driving a manual transmission car, and C++, PASCAL, et al are rather like
> building your own
> car before you drive the thing?
>
>   I prefer to write my own code and find that this is very often quicker
>> than navigating meny different menus.*I like the way they have managed to
>> implement html/css/javascript in a seamless way though, and I had hoped
>> that this was the kind of implementation we would get in LC.*
>>
>
> Very well said.
>
>
>> Regards
>> Tore Nilsen
>> ___
>>
>> Richmond.
>
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Re: Dragging widgets

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

No, HYPE is not 'serious' competition; it might be something that 
squishes LiveCode's HTML5 extension

if LiveCode don't buck up and get on with things in that direction.

On 3/1/17 11:07 pm, Tore Nilsen via use-livecode wrote:

1. mar. 2017 kl. 20.40 skrev Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
:

I just downloaded HYPE from Tumult: this is where some serious competition is 
coming from.

If animated content is what you want to build, then, yes. But it is nowhere 
near the functionality we expect and get from LC. From time to time I use Hype 
to make animated and interactive content for my students, but when I need to 
make some serious applications that rely on variables, arrays, writing to and 
reading from external files, manipulate files and folders on the host system, 
use controls like radio buttons or check boxes, use menus or editable fields, 
there is no way this can be done in Hype 3.0 without writing html, css and java 
script manually.

The kind of actions you are able to use are limited to mouse/touch actions. 
Personally I am no big fan of menu driven scripting.


Is menu driven scripting really programming? (500-900 words, on my desk 
by Monday).


Why do I feel that menu driven scripting is like driving an automatic 
car (last time I drove one
of those I crashed it by using my left foot to press on the "clutch"), 
while LiveCode feels like
driving a manual transmission car, and C++, PASCAL, et al are rather 
like building your own

car before you drive the thing?

  I prefer to write my own code and find that this is very often quicker than navigating meny different menus.*I like the way they have managed to implement html/css/javascript in a 
seamless way though, and I had hoped that this was the kind of 
implementation we would get in LC.*


Very well said.



Regards
Tore Nilsen
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Richmond.
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Re: Dragging widgets

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

Yes, of course, Hype is nowhere near the scope of LC. my interest is just what 
you describe: an environment for  smooth easy-to-build animation and, if it can 
also be deployed on a web site without having to load the entire Emscriptem , 
so much the better. 

A full graphic mini-novel-story (6 minutes user driven) I would prefer to do it 
in LC, because the scope of the back end is so much bigger, but it's just too 
hard compared to something like HYPE to do a) easily b) look really good.  So 
if we could build it in HTML5, if we could only fully integrate the browser 
widget in the message path we would have our Dosai and Sambar too. Plus you get 
the bonus of being able to deploy on web without having to wait for the entire 
Emscripten engine to load.

and, back on point, being able to touch-drag any object is simply the default 
expectation for a newbie coming from that GUI/Front End/UI design space over to 
check out LC…

On 3/1/17, 11:07 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Tore Nilsen via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

If animated content is what you want to build, then, yes. But it is nowhere 
near the functionality we expect and get from LC. From time to time I use Hype 
to make animated and interactive content for my students, but when I need to 
make some serious applications that rely on variables, arrays, writing to and 
reading from external files, manipulate files and folders on the host system, 
use controls like radio buttons or check boxes, use menus or editable fields, 
there is no way this can be done in Hype 3.0 without writing html, css and java 
script manually.

The kind of actions you are able to use are limited to mouse/touch actions. 
Personally I am no big fan of menu driven scripting. I prefer to write my own 
code and find that this is very often quicker than navigating meny different 
menus. I like the way they have managed to implement html/css/javascript in a 
seamless way though, and I had hoped that this was the kind of implementation 
we would get in LC.

Regards
Tore Nilsen

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Re: Dragging widgets

[Tore Nilsen via use-livecode]

> 1. mar. 2017 kl. 20.40 skrev Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> I just downloaded HYPE from Tumult: this is where some serious competition is 
> coming from.

If animated content is what you want to build, then, yes. But it is nowhere 
near the functionality we expect and get from LC. From time to time I use Hype 
to make animated and interactive content for my students, but when I need to 
make some serious applications that rely on variables, arrays, writing to and 
reading from external files, manipulate files and folders on the host system, 
use controls like radio buttons or check boxes, use menus or editable fields, 
there is no way this can be done in Hype 3.0 without writing html, css and java 
script manually.

The kind of actions you are able to use are limited to mouse/touch actions. 
Personally I am no big fan of menu driven scripting. I prefer to write my own 
code and find that this is very often quicker than navigating meny different 
menus. I like the way they have managed to implement html/css/javascript in a 
seamless way though, and I had hoped that this was the kind of implementation 
we would get in LC.

Regards
Tore Nilsen
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Re: Dragging widgets

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Name dropping like that (HYPE from Tumult) inevitably makes me want to 
check the thing out.


http://tumult.com/hype/

It certainly looks very impressive . . .

BUT:

1. It is confined to one platform (Mac OS X 10.8 and up).

2. Its output seems to be HTML5 only.

As I only stretch to Mac OS 10.7.5 at present my comments are only based 
by what I can see on the website.


This does not mean that LiveCode should rest on its laurels.

Richmond.


On 3/1/17 9:40 pm, Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode wrote:

Graham Samual wrote:

 But (and there certainly is a ‘but’) there is a danger that the whole LC 
environment might move away from the very powerful “everyone can code” ideal. 
It may be simply that this list is preoccupying itself with more arcane stuff 
that’s outside the comfort zone of most LC developers, but instinctively I feel 
the danger is real.
 
 Maybe there should be a “who benefits?” test applied to new stuff, especially stuff that breaks the existing model.
 
 Just my two Brexit-affected Eurocents
 
 Graham

---

BR: Ditto what Graham has said. The "danger" is very real….I just downloaded HYPE from Tumult: this 
is where some serious competition is coming from. One of my "non programmer" editors here, who 
knows Keynote really well makes "Hollywood grade" presentations… can be building in HYPE in a few 
days… the HTML5 layer is completely hidden…unless he really *wants* to get into the JS (he never, ever will). 
I plan to start using it myself to… for projects I had started in LC but which clearly cannot be taken to the 
next level in LC.






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Re: Dragging widgets

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

Graham Samual wrote:

But (and there certainly is a ‘but’) there is a danger that the whole LC 
environment might move away from the very powerful “everyone can code” ideal. 
It may be simply that this list is preoccupying itself with more arcane stuff 
that’s outside the comfort zone of most LC developers, but instinctively I feel 
the danger is real.

Maybe there should be a “who benefits?” test applied to new stuff, 
especially stuff that breaks the existing model.

Just my two Brexit-affected Eurocents

Graham
---

BR: Ditto what Graham has said. The "danger" is very real….I just downloaded 
HYPE from Tumult: this is where some serious competition is coming from. One of 
my "non programmer" editors here, who knows Keynote really well makes 
"Hollywood grade" presentations… can be building in HYPE in a few days… the 
HTML5 layer is completely hidden…unless he really *wants* to get into the JS 
(he never, ever will). I plan to start using it myself to… for projects I had 
started in LC but which clearly cannot be taken to the next level in LC.






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Re: Dragging widgets

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

I don’t always agree with Richmond (to put it mildly) but here I feel very 
close to his position. I think that the mother ship's attempts to make LC more 
up to date and at the same time more relevant to commercial software production 
are laudable, and even necessary to ensure the product stays in the game, so to 
speak. But (and there certainly is a ‘but’) there is a danger that the whole LC 
environment might move away from the very powerful “everyone can code” ideal. 
It may be simply that this list is preoccupying itself with more arcane stuff 
that’s outside the comfort zone of most LC developers, but instinctively I feel 
the danger is real.

Maybe there should be a “who benefits?” test applied to new stuff, especially 
stuff that breaks the existing model.

Just my two Brexit-affected Eurocents

Graham

> On 1 Mar 2017, at 16:58, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm sorry if that is how you understood my posting.
> 
> What I meant was that many people don't really want to look "under the hood" 
> of the illusion
> created by the desktop manager and so forth, with its artifacts such as 
> icons, folders and images,
> to any of the abstraction layers underneath.
> 
> The WIMP GUI has, by and large, become the standard way people interact with 
> computers,
> and the family line that started with Hypercard was initially meant for 
> standard people, not
> for people who delighted in getting themselves smeared in oil and whatever 
> from messing around
> beneath the GUI.
> 
> LiveCode is "real", and part of its "reality" involves sustaining the 
> illusion that one can program with
> 'objects', dragging them around, rotating them, flipping them, and spreading 
> "jam" on them as if
> they were slices of bread on a table rather than complicated congeries of 
> numbers.
> 
> The messy way that one currently imports SVG images into LiveCode mucks up 
> that illusion.
> 
> The fact that LiveCode can now import vector graphics is wonderful, and it 
> was not that I wanted
> to describe as "sucking". What sucks is that, owing to the way one has to 
> import SVG graphics
> the "standard" import model is broken, and it allows us to see some of the 
> sub-GUI stuff.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
> On 01/03/17 17:42, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> Read the post I was responding to. Richmond seemed to be making the point 
>> that the GUI of Livecode presented an illusion to the end user that they 
>> were working with a "real" app. As I said, I may have misconstrued his 
>> meaning, but that was what it seemed like he was saying.
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 06:39 , David V Glasgow via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> So…. there is no spoon?
>>> 
>>> Oh Wow!  Look at that!  My code (and this email) is writing itself when I 
>>> just tilt my head and look meaningfully at the screen.
>>> 
>>> Couldn’t resist.
>>> 
>>> Best Wishes,
>>> David Glasgow
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Re: Dragging widgets

[Richmond via use-livecode]

I'm sorry if that is how you understood my posting.

What I meant was that many people don't really want to look "under the 
hood" of the illusion
created by the desktop manager and so forth, with its artifacts such as 
icons, folders and images,

to any of the abstraction layers underneath.

The WIMP GUI has, by and large, become the standard way people interact 
with computers,
and the family line that started with Hypercard was initially meant for 
standard people, not
for people who delighted in getting themselves smeared in oil and 
whatever from messing around

beneath the GUI.

LiveCode is "real", and part of its "reality" involves sustaining the 
illusion that one can program with
'objects', dragging them around, rotating them, flipping them, and 
spreading "jam" on them as if
they were slices of bread on a table rather than complicated congeries 
of numbers.


The messy way that one currently imports SVG images into LiveCode mucks 
up that illusion.


The fact that LiveCode can now import vector graphics is wonderful, and 
it was not that I wanted
to describe as "sucking". What sucks is that, owing to the way one has 
to import SVG graphics
the "standard" import model is broken, and it allows us to see some of 
the sub-GUI stuff.


Richmond.

On 01/03/17 17:42, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Read the post I was responding to. Richmond seemed to be making the point that the GUI of 
Livecode presented an illusion to the end user that they were working with a 
"real" app. As I said, I may have misconstrued his meaning, but that was what 
it seemed like he was saying.

Bob S



On Mar 1, 2017, at 06:39 , David V Glasgow via use-livecode 
 wrote:

So…. there is no spoon?

Oh Wow!  Look at that!  My code (and this email) is writing itself when I just 
tilt my head and look meaningfully at the screen.

Couldn’t resist.

Best Wishes,
David Glasgow

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Re: Dragging widgets

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Read the post I was responding to. Richmond seemed to be making the point that 
the GUI of Livecode presented an illusion to the end user that they were 
working with a "real" app. As I said, I may have misconstrued his meaning, but 
that was what it seemed like he was saying. 

Bob S


> On Mar 1, 2017, at 06:39 , David V Glasgow via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> So…. there is no spoon?
> 
> Oh Wow!  Look at that!  My code (and this email) is writing itself when I 
> just tilt my head and look meaningfully at the screen.
> 
> Couldn’t resist.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> David Glasgow

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Re: Dragging widgets

[David V Glasgow via use-livecode]

> On 1 Mar 2017, at 12:08 am, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> As to that, everything you do on a computer, INCLUDING typing code, is an 
> illusion. A DOS prompt is an illusion in it's own right. So is a light bulb 
> on a panel that was turned on by some signal from a computing device. All a 
> computer can really do is move numbers from one register to another in a 
> predefined way. By calling the LC GUI an illusion, you are simply removing 
> yourself one more layer from the last illusion. 


So…. there is no spoon?

Oh Wow!  Look at that!  My code (and this email) is writing itself when I just 
tilt my head and look meaningfully at the screen.

Couldn’t resist.

Best Wishes,
David Glasgow

  

  
 
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Re: Dragging widgets

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

@ Bob:

Right: not meant to criticize, but hopefully constructive observation about a 
specific issue… that's how we evolve, right?

 "just sayin"  that to the eyes of the user  (as Quentin said) a widget is a 
visual object/control on screen, like any other, the expectation that they can 
enter

on mousedown; grab me; end mousedown

will be very high. 

So this is a "gotcha" for newbies -- and I don't mean "kids" but experienced 
graphic designers who work all day in a visual environment: (a target market 
that IMHO opinion could be huge were LC ramp up on the visual side)  and now, 
in the new IDE(s), like HYPE from Tumult (just installed yesterday.. amazing…)

… Solutions could be simple as adding to the dictionary a disclaimer "SVG 
objects are drawn arithmetically; as such they do not behave like a block of 
rasterized pixels. In order to drag an SVG widget you need to group it first 
and then add the grab me to the group."  Or like Mike said  "fix it" 

Some things are fundamental in the UI/UX and dragging objects *any* object is 
one of them, and has been from the day we mouse down on an icon on the desktop 
and dragged it into the trash.

Just my two rain drops from Kauai where a storm is moving in, could be as much 
as 10 inches in 10 hours tonite. Yikes!

On 2/28/17, 5:32 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Bob Sneidar via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

oh contraire. Not all images are the same. Support for each kind of image 
has to be implemented. If the industry developed a new kind of image, LC would 
be faced with incorporating that format. 

Bob S



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Re: Dragging widgets

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

As to that, everything you do on a computer, INCLUDING typing code, is an 
illusion. A DOS prompt is an illusion in it's own right. So is a light bulb on 
a panel that was turned on by some signal from a computing device. All a 
computer can really do is move numbers from one register to another in a 
predefined way. By calling the LC GUI an illusion, you are simply removing 
yourself one more layer from the last illusion. 

Now in relation to built-in support of different formats, one could say the 
same thing about a web browser, that it should "just work with any kind of 
image". Or font type then. Or video format. Or encryption algorithm. Or 
anything really. The only reason modern web browsers evolved in the first place 
was because new formats of all kinds of things became really popular or 
beneficial to the end product in some way. 

If anyone can demonstrate that thousands of potential developers turned away 
from LC because the support for SVG graphics, or the browser object, or 
anything in LC, was not up to par, they would have a good point. Better yet if 
they can produce some real numbers about all the developers who really want to 
begin programming in Livecode, and are just waiting for more robust support of 
some particular object, I'm sure they would garner serious interest. If not, 
then bringing up all the programmers who have "turned away" is frankly, a 
fallacy. 

Myself, I get a little nervous when some on the list begin to criticize RunRev 
for not supporting some thing or not in some way expected. It feels a lot like 
eating dinner with my mother who used to take us to high end French restaurants 
just so that she could complain to the chef that something wasn't done just so. 

I could be mischaracterizing the posts though. I apologise if I am overstating 
my case. I think discussions about possible bugs, or new features or better 
ways of doing things are constructive. Criticism of the amazing devs at RunRev 
when something does not work exactly as we like, is not. 



Bob S


> On Feb 28, 2017, at 14:28 , Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> The main stregth of Livecode is that one can go on believing in the illusion 
> of the GUI.
> 
> Messing around with text-editors and images spoils that completely.
> 
> Richmond.


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Re: Dragging widgets

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Indeed:

On 2/28/17 11:27 pm, Quentin Long via use-livecode wrote:

On Feb 28, 2017, at 07:14 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
 wrote:
an image is an image is an image, whether it is png, bitmap, jpg or svg, the fact that is 
is a "widget" is secondary to the use case.

sez Bob Sneidar :
au contraire. Not all images are the same. Support for each kind of image has 
to be implemented. If the industry developed a new kind of image, LC would be 
faced with incorporating that format.

It's true that *under the hood*, LC must handle each distinct 'flavor' of image 
differently. But why should *the user* be concerned about whether a given image 
is vector or raster or RLE or what?

Consider: Numbers can be signed, unsigned, integer, or real, and the engine's internal 
workings must handle each of those 'flavors' of number differently. But in spite of those 
internal differences, *the expression "VarX + VarY" ALWAYS just works, 
REGARDLESS of which flavors of number VarX and VarY happen to be*.


Surely one of the points of LiveCode is to "protect" people who want to 
use a RAD tool from the "fiddly
bits". Ater all if we wanted to concern ourselves with the filldy bits 
we'd all be "out there" learning
C++, C#, Turbo-Whatsit and all the other programming languages that I, 
at least, have, thanks to LiveCode

so successfully managed to avoid for the last 15 years.

Now I am aware that LiveCode is in the process of trying to get itself 
taken seriously by the
hairy-chested programming brigade (real men don't do object-based 
stuff), but if that is at the price
of losing touch with their installed base of "unprogrammers" (and only 
"unprogrammers" in the sense
of being people who aren't high as kites on command-line only 
programming) as well as the very valuable niche they fill between the 
blockly community and the C++ community I belive they are making a big

mistake.

I couldn't tell you about the difference between big-Endian and 
little-Endian programming any more than
I could tell you about Michael Flatly's shoe size (what made me think of 
that example? I wonder). But I have
used LiveCode to produce quite a lot of useful stuff; and with the 
advent of SVG import and a lot of the
other exciting stuff that is on its way in LC 9 I hope to produce a lot 
more.


Nobody bothered to point out that if one opens an SVG image with a 
text-editor one can transfer its code into the prefs palette of the SVG 
widget; and I suspect they didn't because they knew full well that that

seriously sucks as a way to import an image!


As far as *the user* is concerned, a number is a number is a number, and it 
*doesn't matter* whether a number happens to be real or integer or what. Why 
can't an image be an image be an image, *regardless* of whether an image 
happens to be JPG or bitmap or what?




The main stregth of Livecode is that one can go on believing in the 
illusion of the GUI.


Messing around with text-editors and images spoils that completely.

Richmond.
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Re: Dragging widgets

[Quentin Long via use-livecode]

> > On Feb 28, 2017, at 07:14 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
> >  wrote:
> > an image is an image is an image, whether it is png, bitmap, jpg or svg, 
> > the fact that is is a "widget" is secondary to the use case.
> 
> sez Bob Sneidar :
> au contraire. Not all images are the same. Support for each kind of image has 
> to be implemented. If the industry developed a new kind of image, LC would be 
> faced with incorporating that format. 

It's true that *under the hood*, LC must handle each distinct 'flavor' of image 
differently. But why should *the user* be concerned about whether a given image 
is vector or raster or RLE or what?

Consider: Numbers can be signed, unsigned, integer, or real, and the engine's 
internal workings must handle each of those 'flavors' of number differently. 
But in spite of those internal differences, *the expression "VarX + VarY" 
ALWAYS just works, REGARDLESS of which flavors of number VarX and VarY happen 
to be*.

As far as *the user* is concerned, a number is a number is a number, and it 
*doesn't matter* whether a number happens to be real or integer or what. Why 
can't an image be an image be an image, *regardless* of whether an image 
happens to be JPG or bitmap or what?

   
"Bewitched" + "Charlie's Angels" - Charlie = "At Arm's Length"

Read the webcomic at [ http://www.atarmslength.net ]!

If you like "At Arm's Length", support it at [ 
http://www.patreon.com/DarkwingDude ].

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Re: Dragging widgets

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

Thank you for all the suggestions. I wnent for grouping the widget and 
the dragging the group.


I have used this in the most recent version of my Turtle Graphics stack 
that I uploaded about 30 minutes ago:


http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=8=28898

However, the inconsistency between the way one has to handle SVG images and
their import (crude and clunky, monochrome) and the way one imports and
handles all other image formats that LiveCode imports is a problem that 
won't

go away with a few work arounds.

Richmond.

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Re: Dragging widgets

[hh via use-livecode]

> Richmond wrote:
> So . . . can any one tell me how to effect a "grab" (which is the same 
> whether with a PNG image, a button or a graphic object) with a widget?

There is one way that is acting similar to a "grab": Put the following
into your card's script. Works for widgets and any 'usual' control that
doesn't block mouseDown.

on mouseDown
   if the short name of the target is "svgTURTLE" then # <-- use any filter
  put the mouseControl into mC; put false into mUp
  put the clickH - item 1 of the loc of mC into dx
  put the clickV - item 2 of the loc of mC into dy
  repeat until the mouse is up
 set loc of mC to (the mouseH-dx,the mouseV-dy)
  end repeat
end if
end mouseDown

Using a "send in time" is not possible for that, because the click is then
passed 'in between' to the control/widget. You sadly have to poll the mouse.


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Re: Dragging widgets

[Randy Hengst via use-livecode]

I’ve not messed with widgets at all… but, with graphics in this situation I 
would either put

on mouseDown
 grab me
end mouseDown

in the group script…

OR put

on mouseDown
 grab the owner of me
end mouseDown

in the script of each object within the group.

be well,
randy

> On Feb 28, 2017, at 12:56 PM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I tried grouping my SVG widget, and that allows me to drag the group:
> 
> on mouseDown
>   grab me
> end mouseDown
> 
> HOWEVER, when I wish to move the SVG widget itself it vanishs as it moves 
> outwith
> the boundaries of the group.
> 
> NOW: whether I can group my "Turtle" SVG widget and then have my Turtle 
> Graphics code move
> the group and rotate the widget within the group remains to be seen . . .
> 
> Yup, that works!
> 
> Richmond.
> 
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Re: Dragging widgets

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I tried grouping my SVG widget, and that allows me to drag the group:

on mouseDown
   grab me
end mouseDown

HOWEVER, when I wish to move the SVG widget itself it vanishs as it 
moves outwith

the boundaries of the group.

NOW: whether I can group my "Turtle" SVG widget and then have my Turtle 
Graphics code move

the group and rotate the widget within the group remains to be seen . . .

Yup, that works!

Richmond.

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Re: Dragging widgets

[Mike Bonner via use-livecode]

Sounds like the widget needs to be tweaked to allow for dragging. Its over
my head, if someone with a clue could do the modification and explain it,
I'd really appreciate the lesson.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 5:36 AM, Richmond via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I have a stack containing an image and an SVG widget:
>
> both contain the script:
>
> on mouseDown
>   grab me
> end mouseDown
>
> this means that end-users in standalones are able to drag around the
> image, and when they
> release their mouse button the image stays where they placed it.
>
> This does NOT work with the widget.
>
> Why?
>
> Richmond.
>
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Re: Dragging widgets

[Paul Hibbert via use-livecode]

I would really love to see LC’s image handling improved, not just for SVG, 
although that would be a huge bonus, but for raster images too. I would happily 
put money into crowdfunding for this, provided the promises were kept of course.

Anyway, this is probably not the answer you are looking for, but one workaround 
until this problem is addressed, is to group your widget and then add your grab 
code to the group script.

It’s my understanding that widgets are not high on the priority list for bug 
fixes, so a workaround may be your only option if you need this anytime soon.

Paul

> On Feb 28, 2017, at 4:58 AM, Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> So . . . can any one tell me how to effect a "grab" (which is the same 
> whether with a PNG image, a button
> or a graphic object) with a widget?

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Re: Dragging widgets

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

oh contraire. Not all images are the same. Support for each kind of image has 
to be implemented. If the industry developed a new kind of image, LC would be 
faced with incorporating that format. 

Bob S


> On Feb 28, 2017, at 07:14 , Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> an image is an image is an image, whether it is png, bitmap, jpg or svg, the 
> fact that is is a "widget" is secondary to the use case.
> 
> Enter an enhancement request.


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Re: Dragging widgets

[Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode]

You are not wrong. 

SVG *is* an image and ideally, should behave like any graphic object.  

Also, for the sake of LC future: These are the kind of things that make newbies 
"run away" from the product.. because they expect things to work, but they 
don't, the frustration level can be severe an image is an image is an image, 
whether it is png, bitmap, jpg or svg, the fact that is is a "widget" is 
secondary to the use case.

Enter an enhancement request.

 

On 2/28/17, 2:41 AM, "use-livecode on behalf of Graham Samuel via use-livecode" 
 wrote:

I think that some people (like me and very possible Richmond) want to use 
SVG graphics as effortlessly-resized images. In this context, we don’t really 
care to think of them as widgets at all (I hope Richmond agrees!). What we want 
is a class of images which are implemented as SVGs but which function in the 
same way as other images with respect to mouse messages etc.

Does this make sense or have I entirely got the wrong end of the stick 
(wouldn’t surprise me)?



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Re: Dragging widgets

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I have mentioned several times how I would like SVG import to be as 
simple as PNG import,
and all handling subsequently as simple as other image formats. I 
suspect the price of being able
to rotate SVG images (set the angle) in a way which means they don't go 
"all fuzzy" is that they

cannot be handled like other images.

So . . . can any one tell me how to effect a "grab" (which is the same 
whether with a PNG image, a button

or a graphic object) with a widget?

Very Possible Richmond.

On 2/28/17 2:41 pm, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:

I think that some people (like me and very possible Richmond) want to use SVG 
graphics as effortlessly-resized images. In this context, we don’t really care 
to think of them as widgets at all (I hope Richmond agrees!). What we want is a 
class of images which are implemented as SVGs but which function in the same 
way as other images with respect to mouse messages etc.

Does this make sense or have I entirely got the wrong end of the stick 
(wouldn’t surprise me)?

Looking at that very interesting thread in the forum, I feel less comfortable 
than I ever have done about the development trajectory of LiveCode. I mean, 
extensions (like widgets) are fine, but what is not so fine IMHO is that 
‘legacy’ ways of working should be deprecated when they have served developers 
so well for so long. OTOH I am getting old, so maybe that’s why I feel 
disturbed about it. You may see GOM (Grumpy Old Man) entering into the alphabet 
soup.


Graham


On 28 Feb 2017, at 04:10, hh via use-livecode  
wrote:

This is not a bug because a widget is not an ordinary control:
Nearly all user interaction has to be allowed and scripted.
I implemented a kind of "grab" in some of my LC8-widget examples.

You can for example also Not focus on a widget from LC Script (that's
why the browser widget is 'robust' against commands like "click").

To the current handling of elementary mouse messages by widgets/LCB
see for example here, in the LC Builder forum

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93=24369=mousedown

I don't know what's updated since then because the widget format changed
again with LC 9, so I wait first for a stable release before going on.


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Re: Dragging widgets

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

I think that some people (like me and very possible Richmond) want to use SVG 
graphics as effortlessly-resized images. In this context, we don’t really care 
to think of them as widgets at all (I hope Richmond agrees!). What we want is a 
class of images which are implemented as SVGs but which function in the same 
way as other images with respect to mouse messages etc.

Does this make sense or have I entirely got the wrong end of the stick 
(wouldn’t surprise me)?

Looking at that very interesting thread in the forum, I feel less comfortable 
than I ever have done about the development trajectory of LiveCode. I mean, 
extensions (like widgets) are fine, but what is not so fine IMHO is that 
‘legacy’ ways of working should be deprecated when they have served developers 
so well for so long. OTOH I am getting old, so maybe that’s why I feel 
disturbed about it. You may see GOM (Grumpy Old Man) entering into the alphabet 
soup.


Graham

> On 28 Feb 2017, at 04:10, hh via use-livecode  
> wrote:
> 
> This is not a bug because a widget is not an ordinary control:
> Nearly all user interaction has to be allowed and scripted.
> I implemented a kind of "grab" in some of my LC8-widget examples.
> 
> You can for example also Not focus on a widget from LC Script (that's
> why the browser widget is 'robust' against commands like "click"). 
> 
> To the current handling of elementary mouse messages by widgets/LCB
> see for example here, in the LC Builder forum
> 
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93=24369=mousedown
> 
> I don't know what's updated since then because the widget format changed
> again with LC 9, so I wait first for a stable release before going on.
> 
> 
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Re: Dragging widgets

[hh via use-livecode]

This is not a bug because a widget is not an ordinary control:
Nearly all user interaction has to be allowed and scripted.
I implemented a kind of "grab" in some of my LC8-widget examples.

You can for example also Not focus on a widget from LC Script (that's
why the browser widget is 'robust' against commands like "click"). 

To the current handling of elementary mouse messages by widgets/LCB
see for example here, in the LC Builder forum

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=93=24369=mousedown

I don't know what's updated since then because the widget format changed
again with LC 9, so I wait first for a stable release before going on.


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Re: Dragging widgets

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

I found that messing around at work in my lunch hour on Linux 32-bit; 
just tried the same thing on Mac OS with the same results.


Richmond.

On 2/27/17 2:43 pm, Graham Samuel via use-livecode wrote:

Let’s hope it’s a bug. I have not tried this yet, but I am about to embark on a 
development that allows a lot of dragging of SVG widgets. I hope someone who 
knows replies soon. If it’s not a bug, my whole resizing strategy will have to 
revert to a library of images with different resolutions with the appropriate 
sizes picked out at launch  time. Yuk.

Graham


On 27 Feb 2017, at 13:36, Richmond via use-livecode 
 wrote:

I have a stack containing an image and an SVG widget:

both contain the script:

on mouseDown
  grab me
end mouseDown

this means that end-users in standalones are able to drag around the image, and 
when they
release their mouse button the image stays where they placed it.

This does NOT work with the widget.

Why?

Richmond.

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Re: Dragging widgets

[Graham Samuel via use-livecode]

Let’s hope it’s a bug. I have not tried this yet, but I am about to embark on a 
development that allows a lot of dragging of SVG widgets. I hope someone who 
knows replies soon. If it’s not a bug, my whole resizing strategy will have to 
revert to a library of images with different resolutions with the appropriate 
sizes picked out at launch  time. Yuk.

Graham

> On 27 Feb 2017, at 13:36, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a stack containing an image and an SVG widget:
> 
> both contain the script:
> 
> on mouseDown
>  grab me
> end mouseDown
> 
> this means that end-users in standalones are able to drag around the image, 
> and when they
> release their mouse button the image stays where they placed it.
> 
> This does NOT work with the widget.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Richmond.
> 
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Dragging widgets

[Richmond via use-livecode]

I have a stack containing an image and an SVG widget:

both contain the script:

on mouseDown
  grab me
end mouseDown

this means that end-users in standalones are able to drag around the 
image, and when they

release their mouse button the image stays where they placed it.

This does NOT work with the widget.

Why?

Richmond.

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