Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] > *Sent:* Monday, July 08, 2013 6:43 PM > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Cc:* Edmund Storms > *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about > successful cold fusion experiment > > ** ** > > Of course, Fran, you

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

nt: Monday, July 08, 2013 6:43 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment Of course, Fran, you are correct. But this is irrelevant in the real world. When two nano-particles touch, they immediatel

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Try to get > that regularity with the random process of stress-relief causing > dislocations on bulk matter… where the NAE form and how big they are is not > going to be anywhere near the regularity that can be achieved in modern > nanotech manufacturing. > > > >

RE: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

g to be anywhere near the regularity that can be achieved in modern nanotech manufacturing. -Mark Iverson From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:43 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about succe

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

** > ** ** > *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com > ] > *Sent:* Monday, July 08, 2013 3:43 PM > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Cc:* Edmund Storms > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold > fusion experiment > ** ** >

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

h manufacturing. -Mark Iverson From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:43 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment Of course, Fran, you are correct. But this i

RE: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

near the regularity that can be achieved in modern nanotech manufacturing. -Mark Iverson From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 3:43 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

nd Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com > ] > *Sent:* Monday, July 08, 2013 4:53 PM > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Cc:* Edmund Storms > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold > fusion experiment > ** ** > Axil, I know you are incapable

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 4:53 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment Axil, I know you are incapable of discussing or even believing what I suggest, but I see no indication in the

RE: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 4:53 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment Axil, I know you are incapable of discussing or even believing what I suggest, but I see no indication in the movie you provided tha

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

o and nano cavities as the bodies both pack together and >>> their protrusions interlace to form smaller and smaller pockets between the >>> particles. Perhaps a marriage made in heaven if the IR energy feeding >>> plasmons theory has any weight. >>> Fran

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

.com] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 11:55 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment I'm glad to see a paper by Mizuno. But this paper raises an interesting question, Are nanoparticles the NAE?

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

ink the micro scale tubules used by Rossi >>> may combine micro and nano cavities as the bodies both pack together and >>> their protrusions interlace to form smaller and smaller pockets between the >>> particles. Perhaps a marriage made in heaven if the IR energy feeding >

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

bodies both pack together and >> their protrusions interlace to form smaller and smaller pockets between the >> particles. Perhaps a marriage made in heaven if the IR energy feeding >> plasmons theory has any weight. >> Fran **** >> ** ** >> *From:* Edmund S

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Edmund Storms wrote: I'm glad to see a paper by Mizuno. But this paper raises an interesting > question, Are nanoparticles the NAE? > I am sure they are the location of the NAE. The effect does not happen without the particles. > I personally believe nanoparticles alone are inert. However, p

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

made in heaven if the IR energy feeding > plasmons theory has any weight. > Fran > ** ** > *From:* Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com > ] > *Sent:* Monday, July 08, 2013 11:55 AM > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Cc:* Edmund Storms > *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

] Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 11:55 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment I'm glad to see a paper by Mizuno. But this paper raises an interesting question, Are nanoparticles the NAE?

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

ex-l@eskimo.com > *Cc:* Edmund Storms > *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about > successful cold fusion experiment > > ** ** > > I'm glad to see a paper by Mizuno. But this paper raises an interesting > question, Are nanoparticles the NAE

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

om Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment I'm glad to see a paper by Mizuno. But this paper raises an interesting question, Are nanoparticles the NAE? I personally believe nanoparticles alone are inert. However,

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Here is more... Fano resonance between nano-particles produce whispering gallery waves between nano-particles. This was discovered only three years ago. The Nanoplasmonic research community has not optimized the formation of Fano resonance to any degree yet. They have only gotten it up to 10^^15

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

*How to build a nano-cavity* http://nanophotonics.csic.es/static/publications/pdfs/paper203.pdf Organized Plasmonic Clusters with High Coordination Number and Extraordinary Enhancement in Surface-Enhanced Raman Scattering (SERS) To illustrate a pivotal principle from Nano-engineering that bears u

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

I'm glad to see a paper by Mizuno. But this paper raises an interesting question, Are nanoparticles the NAE? I personally believe nanoparticles alone are inert. However, particles of a critical size are the HOST for the NAE. In other words, the nano-gap I propose to be the NAE grows in a p

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Edmund Storms wrote: Eric, ion bombardment has a rich literature containing 90 references in my > library. You need to read this before speculation is useful. Ion > bombardment can produce either hot fusion and/or cold fusion, depending on > the conditions and applied energy. Low energy favors co

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Eric, ion bombardment has a rich literature containing 90 references in my library. You need to read this before speculation is useful. Ion bombardment can produce either hot fusion and/or cold fusion, depending on the conditions and applied energy. Low energy favors cold fusion if the NAE

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

> > Wow! A total of TWENTY events! Implosion velocity within > > 5% of ignition. > > *AT* 5% of ignition In should concentrate more. It was WITHIN not AT

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

> Wow! A total of TWENTY events! Implosion velocity within 5% of > ignition. *AT* 5% of ignition

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 6:08 PM, H Veeder wrote: Which paper describes the use of 300 eV? > The paper I mentioned by Chambers is relevant. But I recall seeing a different paper, possibly where normal dd branches were seen, in which the energy of the beam was between 200-300 eV. I will try to ke

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 6:08 PM, H Veeder wrote: > Which paper describes the use of 300 eV? > I was recalling things from memory and appear to have gotten a few details mixed up. Thankfully, not the most important one about the energy of the beam. The paper is [1], below, by G.P. Chambers and

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Eric Walker wrote: > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Bob Higgins wrote: > > However, clarifying it this way implies we have an appropriate definition >> of "hot fusion" that is amenable to distinguishing from cold fusion or >> LENR, or at least limiting its scope.

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

I agree, it is just low energy nuclear DECAY at the quantum level. Time is really just a creation by man, we are really not getting older, we are just DECAYING, thanks to our Sun and quantum gravity. Time to fire up those LENR engines and find a lower vacuum area of space. Earth is like a quantu

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Feb 2012 on NIF : https://lasers.llnl.gov/workshops/user_group_2012/docs/6.3_glenzer.pdf Wow! A total of TWENTY events! Implosion velocity within 5% of ignition. Keep the big money rolling, folks! ps : They also use the plot of the Lawson parameters as Pressure*Seconds on the Y axis, Temp on

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

> We don't know where cold fusion can occur. Some enterprising scientists > or inventor might show at some point that the Papp engine was producing > LENR. We're largely still at the beginning. > > Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that cold fusion is happening everywhere all the time, e

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

This paper from nature is about pyroelectric fusion . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroelectric_fusion On 7/8/13, Edmund Storms wrote: > Muon fusion is hot fusion because the fused nuclei explodes into > fragments that includes neutrons. This is a fact and not open to > debate. In addition, a m

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 4:23 PM, Eric Walker wrote: and results in helium >> > > This and, of course, heat. > Also, 4He is a known result of LENR in the context of deuterided palladium. But we don't really know what the product is in the context of Ni/H or Pd/H, etc. So we have to be careful t

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Bob Higgins wrote: However, clarifying it this way implies we have an appropriate definition > of "hot fusion" that is amenable to distinguishing from cold fusion or > LENR, or at least limiting its scope. Also, is it hot fusion if you get the normal dd branches

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Edmund Storms wrote: Cold fusion does not occur in plasma > We don't know where cold fusion can occur. Some enterprising scientists or inventor might show at some point that the Papp engine was producing LENR. We're largely still at the beginning. > and result

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

> From: "Alan Fletcher" > Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 11:31:53 AM > Those criteria really only apply to Tokamaks. For example, I'm not > sure that the Laser (National Ignition Facility) has to meet the > confinement time criterion. (I haven't looked for the numbers). This 2009 paper extends Lawso

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

People have explored this possibility and some people still think this overlap exists. I once had this opinion as well. Now the evidence is clear. Hot and Cold fusion are two separate and independent phenomenon requiring entirely different mechanisms. Ironically, the initial rejection was

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Muon fusion is hot fusion because the fused nuclei explodes into fragments that includes neutrons. This is a fact and not open to debate. In addition, a muon has a lifetime of a few microseconds. Where and how do you think they are made? I have no idea what you mean by pyroelectric fusion.

RE: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

that Krivit did an excellent job of investigating and reporting on. -Mark Iverson From: Robert Dorr [mailto:rod...@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 11:32 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment That

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

I am not looking, but perhaps one should remain open to the possibility. Harry On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Edmund Storms wrote: > Perhaps by you. But this difference is clear to people who study the two > mechanisms. I suggest you consider this view is correct and not waste time > looking

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

My Definition : Any tabletop nuclear fusion like Muon-catalyzed fusion or pyroelectric fusion that most probable is mechanism behind e-cat can be called cold fusion . In contrast to this : ITER http://www.picstation.net/pictures/968e2ec6b12374bd5489c613d5155447.jpg General Fusion http://www.p

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Perhaps by you. But this difference is clear to people who study the two mechanisms. I suggest you consider this view is correct and not waste time looking for a transition zone. :-) Ed On Jul 7, 2013, at 1:14 PM, H Veeder wrote: Whether the realms of cold fusion and hot fusion are separated

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

The radiation from hot fusion is unambiguous and well known. A source of energy that does not produce this radiation when hydrogen is present, but nevertheless is nuclear, is defined as LENR. Of course, the definition I gave has to fit on a slide. The details would be added verbally. Never

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

In Proton-21 gamma rays of up to 10 MeV are detected. On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 3:14 PM, H Veeder wrote: > Whether the realms of cold fusion and hot fusion are separated by an abyss > or are connected by transition zone like that which exists between > mountains and the prairies remains to be seen

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Whether the realms of cold fusion and hot fusion are separated by an abyss or are connected by transition zone like that which exists between mountains and the prairies remains to be seen. Harry On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 3:02 PM, blaze spinnaker wrote: > Yeah that Soininen patent reported gamma rad

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Gamma rays, i.e. photons, are produced because otherwise the mass- energy cannot be turned into heat. Nevertheless, the energy of the photons is too small for most to leave the apparatus. Therefore, they are detected at too low an intensity to account for the heat. This confuses some people

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

It seems to me that for this definition to work, even as a phenomenological definition, something more would need to be added regarding the "expected radiation". For example, one could say "without the radiation expected from previous experiments in hot fusion". However, clarifying it this way im

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Yeah that Soininen patent reported gamma radiation.. On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Axil Axil wrote: > In LENR, sometimes gamma rays are produced. > > > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 2:59 PM, H Veeder wrote: > >> cold fusion can be distinguished from hot fusion by the three "miracles" >> >> http://n

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

In LENR, sometimes gamma rays are produced. On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 2:59 PM, H Veeder wrote: > cold fusion can be distinguished from hot fusion by the three "miracles" > > http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/Theories/TakahashiTheory.shtml#miracles > > Harry > > > On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Robe

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

cold fusion can be distinguished from hot fusion by the three "miracles" http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/Theories/TakahashiTheory.shtml#miracles Harry On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Robert Dorr wrote: > > Ed and Axil, > > Maybe it would be nice if we could define "Cold Fusion", "LENR" , as >

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

That seems pretty straight forward to me. Bob At 11:27 AM 7/7/2013, you wrote: Bob, here is the definition I plan to use at ICCF-18. This is accepted by most people in the field. Hot fusion is so much different from cold fusion, no benefit is gained by mixing the two phenomenon. They can be

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

That depends on the nuclear products. The exploding foil can be LENR if heat is produced without neutron emission, i.e. without the nuclear reaction associated with hot fusion. In addition, both cold and hot fusion can be produced at the same time in some situations. The challenge is to sep

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

> From: "Axil Axil" > Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 8:29:27 AM > > I am drawing a distinction between hot fusion and LENR in terms of > the "Lawson criterion". Specifically, if a fusion reaction cannot be > characterized in terms of plasma density, plasma confinement time > and plasma temperature, t

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

In a way they are both a form of pressure albeit mechanical or chemical in nature. Bob At 11:25 AM 7/7/2013, you wrote: I don't think that your criteria would include the Proton-21 experiments or the exploding foil experiments as LENR. On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Robert Dorr <

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Bob, here is the definition I plan to use at ICCF-18. This is accepted by most people in the field. Hot fusion is so much different from cold fusion, no benefit is gained by mixing the two phenomenon. They can be easily separated because hot fusion makes neutrons when energy is generated.

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

I don't think that your criteria would include the Proton-21 experiments or the exploding foil experiments as LENR. On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Robert Dorr wrote: > > Ed and Axil, > > Maybe it would be nice if we could define "Cold Fusion", "LENR" , as > fusion at room temperature that only

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

> From: "David ledin" > Sent: Sunday, July 7, 2013 1:31:41 AM > Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment > http://fire.pppl.gov/cyrstal_fusion_nature.pdf It talks about "coulomb explosions" --- which is exactly what the Etiam patent claims (In their case of a Rydber

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Ed and Axil, Maybe it would be nice if we could define "Cold Fusion", "LENR" , as fusion at room temperature that only requires the addition of heat, below let's say 1000 degrees centigrade and possibly some pressure to start the fusion process. Any other type of fusion that requires a high

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

My point Axil, is that the authors have no idea what they are talking about. This confusion is common and results in a great deal of confusion about how cold fusion works. Unless this confusion is eliminated from discussion, no agreement is possible. This paper simply adds to the confusion

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

The paper says that the experimenters are claiming cold fusion. There is no mixing of fusion definitions involved in this paper to my understanding of it. On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Edmund Storms wrote: > That is not a useful criteria because the Lawson criteria applies to a > plasma and t

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

That is not a useful criteria because the Lawson criteria applies to a plasma and to a reaction that results in the hot fusion products, i.e. neutrons, tritium, etc. Cold fusion does not occur in plasma and results in helium without kinetic energy. The reaction is defined as LENR only if t

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

I am drawing a distinction between hot fusion and LENR in terms of the "Lawson criterion". Specifically, if a fusion reaction cannot be characterized in terms of plasma density, plasma confinement time and plasma temperature, then the reaction is LENR. On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Axil Axil

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Yes Axil, your mind set has not changed either, still just as unfocused on the subject at hand. I do not see how this issue can be discussed when you cannot focus on the subject. The Lawson criterion has absolutely no relationship to cold fusion. It only applies to hot fusion. Apparently,

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

Hot fusion is a nuclear reaction in which two or more atomic nuclei collide at very high speed and join to form a new type of atomic nucleus of compressing matter to high temperatures at high densities as defined by the to the Lawson criterion, In nuclear fusion research, the *Lawson criterion*, f

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

If we cannot even agree about what the term LENR means or which phenomenon it describes, I see no hope in arriving at any common understanding. Please, can you make an effort to agree on some basic ideas so that the discussion can move forward? We are dealing with two different phenomenon.

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

It seems to me that the reaction mechanism of the experiment referenced in this thread is electrostatic in nature relating to high voltage causation of fusion. To draw a comparison, this is identical to the mechanism used in the Proton-21 experimental series. Since Proton-21 is considered a c

Re: [Vo]:Interesting paper from nature about successful cold fusion experiment

This paper makes the common mistake of mixing hot- and cold-fusion. These are two separate and independent phenomenon. They are not related except both are nuclear reactions involving fusion. However, the conditions required for initiation and the nuclear products are entirely different. A