Re: [Vo]:ideas and info for today

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
Rossi likes the book “Models of the Atomic Nucleus” by Prof. Nornam Cook, That particular book is in the particlez.org book list at: http://www.particlez.org/about.html. This repository of work describes an alternative to the standard model of particle physics which comes from the thinking of a

[Vo]:I boiled a bunch of water today

2014-12-09 Thread Blaze Spinnaker
... and then turned off the heat.The water stayed hot for quite awhile. Huh.

Re: [Vo]:I boiled a bunch of water today

2014-12-09 Thread Peter Gluck
perhaps it was lazy, traditionalist or unable to change. Water is a strange stuff. Peter On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Blaze Spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: ... and then turned off the heat.The water stayed hot for quite awhile. Huh. -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania

Re: [Vo]:That doggone dogbone

2014-12-09 Thread Alain Sepeda
2014-12-09 1:38 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com: Maybe they are trying to repair their errors. and why not with more than correcting the report ?

RE: [Vo]:I boiled a bunch of water today

2014-12-09 Thread MarkI-ZeroPoint
FYI: I posted a msg on 11/22 with Subject: “Water, out with the old, in with the new? U-tube vid” In it is a link to a vid which might help explain some of water’s anomalous behavior… It gets interesting at ~10mins into the vid… -mark From: Peter Gluck [mailto:peter.gl...@gmail.com]

[Vo]:Live Google Hangouts Meeting with MFMP

2014-12-09 Thread Bob Higgins
Hello fellow Vorts, MFMP is now hosting a live Google Hangouts meeting to discuss the dogbone project - status and plans. If you wish, you may attend using this live link: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYdjGS1897WJvyn7F-lecxcv214L2xLgKrIcX8F2Wx7hZSPlbw Bob Higgins

[Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Peter Gluck
Dear Friends, when the New Paradigm of LENR will arrive, remember me for this too: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2014/12/daily-shared-lenr-discoveries-december_9.html It is the daily info here...more daily than info this time. Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania

[Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread H Veeder
What if everybody got free cash? Myths and facts about unconditional basic income. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hFbyujLT8HQ Talk given by the author of Robots will steal your job, but that is ok. He has looked at the evidence and explains why he is no longer opposed to basic income and why he

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread H Veeder
Whoops wrong link. Lol (Darn mobile devices!) this is the correct one https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-vnB16E36EQ Harry

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
Rossi has publicly stated that he is using over 100 computers to implement his latest control stratagem. From this meager bit of information we can deduce fairly much what is going on with the 1 megawatt cluster E-Cat reactor. That number of computers means he is using a SCADA system to do the

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
How will Russia kept their oil and gas products running in the face of Rossi's E-Cat challenge? Here's how. SCADA Strangelove: Zero-days hacking for full remote control Speaking of critical SCADA systems online and the risks to them…after finding more than 60,000 exposed control systems

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread David Roberson
Axil, I suspect that you are misreading what Rossi stated. Why would you not think that each small ECAT unit has its own microcontroller? There are approximately 100 individual ECATs and he has chosen to control each one independently while a main control system coordinates them. If what I

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread David Roberson
You assume that these ECAT systems must be connected to the Internet. If that connection is too dangerous then it should not be standard until the vulnerabilities are resolved. Of course it is modern to monitor and control things by connection to the internet, but that is not the only choice.

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 4:02 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Axil, I suspect that you are misreading what Rossi stated. Why would you not think that each small ECAT unit has its own microcontroller? This is what a PLC is. It is a few analog to digital converters, a

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
The Iranians lost control of their centrifuges, and they were not on the internet. The infection came in on a memory stick. On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 4:08 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: You assume that these ECAT systems must be connected to the Internet. If that connection is too

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread David Roberson
You can build a controller for much less than $800 per ECAT. I would expect that function to cost more like $50, which is on the high side. He uses the word computer if I recall correctly and that suggests something more complicated than a completed PLC. Since a microprocessor is sometimes

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Bob Cook
Dave- I agree with you and had the same thought about Axil's rash conclusion. Some solar panels have the same kind of mirco processor to control the voltage of each panel in a group of many panels. The ones that are not producing are identified and taken off line generally. A farm of wind

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread David Roberson
Yeah, and they did not have an internally designed controller in that case. The Iranians purchased a standard system from what I read. It is much easier to monkey around with a controller that anyone can purchase than one where you change the software at will. Rossi apparently is developing

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
Details, details, details, the costs are all in the details. The communication problems between the PLC and the PLS multiplexer (RTU) requires a complicated communication protocol, and data buffering in both the PLC and the RTU. The main control station can fail. this requires data storage during

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
IF Rossi is developing his home grown command and control system, we won't see the E-Cat cluster reactor released for another 10 years. On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 4:26 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Yeah, and they did not have an internally designed controller in that case. The

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 4:26 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Rossi apparently is developing his own control software. Do you know otherwise? Consider the case of Linux systems compared to Windows devices. Any home grown systems development in this day and age is crazy. Not

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread David Roberson
I am a programmer. The cost depends upon the requirements that must be met. Each ECAT should be easy to control once it is understood since the input complexity appears very small. Controlling the complete system is more complex, but I do not think that we are looking at a major effort such

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
Then there is the ghosted real time PC based master control system to consider. Have you ever worked on a PC based real-time graphic interface controlling 100 remote computer? If you can custom code that up in a few months, you are more than a good programmer, you are a GOD programmer. On Tue,

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread David Roberson
Surely you are kidding. Have you written processor code before? I have written control systems for numerous radios that are more complex than an ECAT. You only have a couple of inputs to handle for an ECAT and the only outputs appear to be drive for the power heating system and monitoring

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
Who is going to design the hardware for the custom PLC and the RTU, and the custom bus interface cards inside the ghosted duel PCs? Will you do that during lunch? On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 4:57 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Surely you are kidding. Have you written processor code

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread David Roberson
This is not true Axil. Something this simple begs to have its own carefully constructed controller.There is an embedded design industry that makes its living by handling these types of systems. And, you have given them another reason to go that way due to your concerns. Perhaps the

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Bob Cook
Axil--Give up! Bob - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells This is not true Axil. Something this simple begs to have its own carefully

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
OK On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Axil--Give up! Bob - Original Message - *From:* David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2014 2:04 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread David Roberson
I have personally designed PC GUI interfaces to my own radio controllers that are built into the radio system. The real question you should ask is how much independence can each of the ECAT controllers be? A good design would have the major control processes distributed and thereby limit the

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread David Roberson
Why do you think that one guy has to do all the design work? The PLC can be for the second generation where cost is focused upon. The first passes should be done with easier to program flash processors. As you say, details, details, etc. The main point is that it is a joke to think that

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread David Roberson
We have beat this horse enough. I agree it is time to consider other issues. ;-) Dave -Original Message- From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Dec 9, 2014 5:08 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells OK On Tue,

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread a.ashfield
I have been writing about the coming high rate of permanent unemployment that I expect. An unconditional income to everyone is one the few ideas that shows promise. I was surprised to see that a large experiment has actually been carried out in India and the results are fascinating. Whether

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread James Bowery
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:06 PM, a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net wrote: I expect the major difficulty here to try it would be the GOP, but logically that does not make sense. From the conservative thinktank, The American Enterprise Institute comes a proposal to replace the welfare state with

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread David Roberson
I found the presentation quite interesting and perhaps one day it may become necessary, but I wonder how well the concept will work if applied across all of a society? Does the fact that most of the citizens of the test countries do not have this type of income matter? One might expect to see

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread Lennart Thornros
The problem with this idea is that it will do what this guy in the video said - make many government job obsolete. The big organizations we are building in the public and private sector wants the complicated, very inefficient system with all openings for corruption to stay in place. I was amazed

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread Lennart Thornros
David, I can see your concerns. However, given the facts that this type of system is rather simple to administrate. as it requires very little control or guidance. Of course I understand that there will be people trying to complicate things.In other words I think the savings will outweigh the

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread Bob Cook
Yes this seems like a good idea. And the Federal Reserve should allow ordinary persons, not only rich banks and bankers, to open FR Bank accounts. And when the Fed wants to get money into the public for RD or any other reason make loans available at the low interest rates they charge banks

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread Jed Rothwell
I am a big fan of this idea, as I have said here before. I like this take on the problem: http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/

RE: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread Orionworks - Steven Vincent Johnson
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-vnB16E36EQ Thanks Harry. This was fascinating to watch and very informative too. They probably are on to something. A paradigm shift, I'd say. I hope these experimental guaranteed income programs continue to be actively studied and tested with real people -

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread H Veeder
Actually the Swiss have not voted on it yet. A minimum of hundred thousand signatures were needed to get it as a question on a future referendum. That was achieved earlier this year. The referendum is suppose to be in 2016 so the campaign is just beginning, but a panel associated with referendum

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread Craig Haynie
You have a prediction that there will be a high rate of unemployment, but these sorts of predictions started in the late 1800s with the expansion of industry. Now you're proposing a solution for this prediction, and believe that any opposition to this solution does not make sense. But you

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
When a vender designs a computerize automation control system, the vender will be required to meet many industry standard specs to plug and play with other equipment in the factory setting. If a vender supports many of these interface specs, he has an advantage in the market place over vendors who

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread Blaze Spinnaker
We have free cash in the US already, it's called foodstamps + Obamacare We are incrementally getting there. It'll likely be some time before everyone just gets a blank check. Connecting Automation and entitlements is a very good idea, however. On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 10:09 AM, H Veeder

Re: [Vo]:more energy in disputes than from cells

2014-12-09 Thread Axil Axil
Dave, As a programmer, it is a requirement to meet all interface specs in the market that you are coding for. Just finding out what specs are required to conform with is a pain in the neck. It is easy to do your own thing but this is seldom acceptable in the marketplace. On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread H Veeder
Craig I actually agree that their won't be a permanent high rate of unemployment. However, the number of full time jobs with benefits has been declining and continues to decline. Young adults entering the job market today do not have the same opportunities for full time employment as their parents

Re: [Vo]:OT: what if everybody got free cash?

2014-12-09 Thread Lennart Thornros
Yes, Craig I agree with that the unemployment scare has been their through every step of the way. However, it has been right from the point of view that the old job disappeared and new more interesting jobs was created. I do not agree with that you compare this to any unrealized science problem.