Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:[OT]Shocking Story That Could Derail Attack on Syria
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 17:27:29 -0400 hohlr...@gmail.com hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Why should we get involved in a proxy war between Saudi and Iran? Excellent question. And to extend it a bit, why should we be involved in a proxy war between Israel and the Islamic Arab world? Why should America spend blood and money defending Israel by attacking Syria (or Iran or Iraq), when Israel is a country only a tiny minority in the US has any real attachment to, a country that means nothing to the overwhelming majority of us? If the US were not so sadly confused about what is good for it, it would end all aid to Israel, Egypt and the rest of those peculiar Middle Eastern countries, and let them slug it out among themselves.
Re: [Vo]:Wildlife taking over Fukushima
Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Pigs can be dangerous. My father heard about them eating up farmers, where all they found was the soles of farmer's shoes. So the expression I heard in the army from the southern boys: He went out to shit and the hogs et him was no more than the truth.
[Vo]:Ride a Shuttle Booster Rocket
People on this list should enjoy this 400-second video http://tinyurl.com/m7b6wvr
Re: [Vo]:Re: Nicely Played, John Hadjichristos
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 15:10:26 -0700 blaze spinnaker blazespinna...@gmail.com wrote: Presuming (of course) that's actually John Hadjichristos. If it isn't, still, well done anonymous troll. Just to make sure it is seen by readers of this list, here are MY's two replies. I doubt Hadjichristos, if it was really his post, will reply in turn. http://tinyurl.com/lmpej4v maryyugo July 29, 2013 at 12:29 PM I have a better idea, John. Why don't you get Jed Rothwell to provide some independent testing and experts for you? I have contact with him and I will help him make it fool proof. If I play your game, you will just say my qualifications are not adequate. Sorry. No dice. Talk to Jed, though. I know he was willing to go on site to do a proper test of Rossi with appropriate experts and instruments. Maybe he'll do the same for you. Let me know when you have contacted Mr. Rothwell and that you have authorized him to talk to me about the planned tests, schedule and any other particulars. maryyugo July 29, 2013 at 12:41 PM Oh... I meant to mention: the test is not independent unless the people doing the test are allowed to specify how the output power is to be measured and with exactly what method and instruments. If they choose to sparge the output stream, you must allow it. It is also not independent unless your input power source (the mains wiring) is interrupted by the experimenter using their own extension cord and that cord is instrumented with a broad band power meter. And it is not independent unless the origin of ALL wires and tubes connected to the device are fully characterized and understood by the experimenters and enough time is allowed to make sure this characterization is properly performed and recorded. None of this, of course was the case for your demo. Before I even discussed it with Jed, you'd have to agree to all of those conditions. While you're here, maybe you'd care to tell all of us why you did not simply use one your existing reactors which your company claimed to have in dozen quantities since at least mid 2011. That would be the ones with built in high temperature oil, all liquid, flow calorimetry. I'd also like to know how you can feel comfortable in testing a nuclear fusion device, with limited experience, with guests present, without any radiation monitoring and without any meltdown or explosion protection for the observers. Finally, maybe you can clear up the issue of the supposed 1.6 Tesla magnetic field allegedly present at 20 cm from the device. If this is accurate, how do you stop anything in the room which is ferromagnetic and not solidly held down, from rushing to it? Thanks in advance for your time and answers to all these questions.
Re: [Vo]:Cold fusion in your face!
On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 02:18:43 -0700 (PDT) Danny Ross Lunsford antimatte...@yahoo.com wrote: We should keep calling it cold fusion, and make a barbed point of it, in honor of Fleischmann, who admittedly hated the term. Why? To stick it to the people who hounded him and smirched his reputation. Cold fusion yesterday, today, and forever! Fly the flag! Shouldn't it be done in honor of Pons as well? Fleischmann is dead and beyond caring, but Pons is alive, so is still, presumably, suffering from being hounded and besmirched.
Re: [Vo]:Why Cold Fusion Has to Die
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 14:27:51 +0200 Moab Moab moab2...@googlemail.com wrote: That article doesn't make sense to me. You are proposing that a name change will make non-listeners into listeners, I don't think that's gonna work at all. I think that any non-listening scientists that would read the a paper published with the new name will immediately figure out that it's plain old cold fusion again, but now they're pushing it to us with yet another name. I kind of see what you mean: when 'global warming' became 'climate change' and didn't even stop there, and became 'climate disruption', I had the feeling they were pushing at us. And when 'spam' had its meaning changed from 'unsolicited commercial email' to 'any email you do not want to receive', I figured scoundrels were trying to pull the wool over our eyes to somehow make spam profitable for even more people that it already is.
Re: [Vo]:Why Cold Fusion Has to Die
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 10:46:46 -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote: And when 'spam' had its meaning changed from 'unsolicited commercial email' to 'any email you do not want to receive', I figured scoundrels were trying to pull the wool over our eyes to somehow make spam profitable for even more people that it already is. That is incorrect. They invented the term unsolicited commercial e-mail for legal purposes, so that a crime could be defined carefully by legislation. When someone sends vacation photos to a long list of people, you might call that spam. That term is informal and was never defined in law. Laws relating to unsolicited commercial email would not apply to unsolicited vacation photos. Interesting, thanks.
Re: [Vo]:Venus - high and dry - why ?
I wish Archimedes Plutonium would join this list.
Re: [Vo]:Over 40 messages posted by Joshua Cude posted on June 4
On Tue, 4 Jun 2013 07:35:47 -0500 OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Mr. Beaty, When I opened up my mail box this morning I was flooded with over 40 posted messages from Joshua Cude. And it's only 7:10 AM in the morning. I know of no one within the Vort Collective besides Cude that has displayed this amount of excessive and obsessive posting behavior. How many more Cude posts can we expect, today alone? Cude is one sane person in a nest of True Believers. He has every right to point out the nonsense the TBs are spouting. Others on this list post far more often than Cude, but you have nothing to say about them; it seems to me you just want to shut Cude up because you do not like what he says.
Re: [Vo]:Over 40 messages posted by Joshua Cude posted on June 4
On Tue, 4 Jun 2013 09:28:12 -0700 MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net wrote: Vorl: You haven't a clue either... When it comes to LENR, there is overwhelming evidence Then why haven't MIT and GE noticed the overwhelming evidence and taken out patents so they can add a trillion or so to their bottom lines? So we can either sit here and bad-mouth Rossi, and think of all manner of ways that it could be a scam (which serves no useful purpose other than self-gratification) As I said the other day, if this test was of competing coffee makers, and they chose brand A as the best one, I would probably accept their recommendation rather than demanding more tests; but there is a lot more at stake with LENR, so I, and anybody with his head screwed on right, will want to see more tests, and more independent ones than this one, before we are willing to accept the results. I don't have the impression that anybody has been able to shoot this test down, but has merely pointed to the ways it might have been faked, which is exactly what anybody should do when the stakes are this high.
Re: [Vo]:Over 40 messages posted by Joshua Cude posted on June 4
On Tue, 4 Jun 2013 14:29:27 -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: The fact that these measurements have enormous implications has no bearing on...how believable they are. Of course it does. Do you think GE will be beating down Rossi's doors because of this one test? ; but there is a lot more at stake with LENR, so I, and anybody with his head screwed on right, will want to see more tests, and more independent ones than this one, before we are willing to accept the results. If you are evenhanded as you say, I think you would now say that you lean toward accepting them or at least you are neutral. I think it is likely the test will be worthless - probably faked in some way by Rossi - because Rossi has the reputation of being a liar, and because LENR, if it were real, would have more going for it than 23 years of anecdotes and laboratory curiosities. That seems pretty evenhanded to me. You have only suggested that Levi is corrupt and that he is willing to destroy his career in return for a few thousand euros. If you believe this you are poor judge of human behavior. You are confusing me with somebody else; I have no opinion of Levi one way or the other. People have now used industry-standard power company techniques to confirm Rossi's claims. It is case closed. There is nothing more to discuss. Then GE must be begging Rossi to accept millions from them just to have a little business chat, because if the test has truly confirmed Rossi's claims, then GE, with the engineering brainpower it has, must have recognized it as well as you have. If you insist on evaluating not only the technical issues also with reference to the reputations of the researchers... Again, you are confusing me with somebody else: I know little and have said nothing about the reputations of the researchers.
Re: [Vo]:Over 40 messages posted by Joshua Cude posted on June 4
On Tue, 4 Jun 2013 15:46:16 -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote: Of course it does. Do you think GE will be beating down Rossi's doors because of this one test? No, as I said, they know nothing about this. I doubt GE got to where it is without an efficient intelligence service that keeps them up-to-date on anything that could increase, or threaten, their bottom line. They probably know more about Rossi and his gadgets than you do, and they probably are not impressed. YOU said that! You said you think Levi sold out for a few thousand euros, but he has plausible deniability so he is not worried. You said that is the current hypothesis. No, I did not say that; you must be confusing me with Vrel Bok.
Re: [Vo]:Over 40 messages posted by Joshua Cude posted on June 4
On Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:15:23 -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Please stop the nonsense. You said that right here: That is true. The risk for Levi is negligible and he can always claim ignorance. Levi has very steady job at university and his pay roll is determined solely by his Ph.D level education and his work experience measured in years. If there are any deviations, Levi can just ask the Union lawyer to clear things up. . . . So If Levi is making few dozens of kiloeuros extra money with Rossi with very little efforts, his involvement is more than justified. . . . Did you mean that, or not? Do you think Levi is conspiring to defraud people, or not? Again, I did not say that. In fact, as someone for whom English is his first language I would not be likely to write things like: 'Levi has very steady job', 'pay roll', 'Levi is making few dozens', 'with very little efforts'.
Re: [Vo]:Over 40 messages posted by Joshua Cude posted on June 4
On Tue, 4 Jun 2013 16:48:10 -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: You are right! You did not say that. Jouni Valkonen did. I somehow got the messages mixed up. My apologies. No problem.
Re: [Vo]:Fact checking: Did Nature (or others) publicly decide to reject all cold fusion papers?
On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 16:14:35 -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: A lie detector test should be a requirement of employment for their institution which asks the critical question: “Do you or have you ever opposed the idea of LENR to have ever put LENR at a disadvantage in science.” Don't be a wimp. Waterboard 'em! They are guilty until proven innocent. I like it. Posters everywhere will show Rossi glowering at them - like the picture at the top of Gary Wright's website. Rossi will become known as 'Big Rossi', and people like Robert Park, after being hideously tortured with devices powered by LENR modules, will fervently cry 'I love Big Rossi'.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion
On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 06:52:44 -0400 Ron Kita chiralex.k...@gmail.com wrote: Greeting Vortex-L Boring http://www.lenrnews.eu/ Are you kidding? This blows Rossi out of the water. [quote] The good-news claim is that DGT can control their multi-stage dynamic process. We observed their fifth-generation apparatus being ramped up in minutes instead of taking hours or days to reach levels of heat output several times higher than equivalent energy input of electricityAll that's needed to stop the reactor from producing excess heat energy is to switch off those currents that create plasma. [/quote] No crazy apply more heat to make it stop nonsense. This sounds like the real deal.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion
On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 10:28:03 -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote: No crazy apply more heat to make it stop nonsense. Why is this nonsense? I don't have the eloquence to explain, but if you ask over at moletrap.co.uk, or wavewatching.net/fringe, they can clear it up for you.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion
On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 10:50:12 -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote: Why is this nonsense? I don't have the eloquence to explain, but if you ask over at moletrap.co.uk, or wavewatching.net/fringe, they can clear it up for you. Where, specifically, in wavewatching.net? I would suggest you ask at http://wavewatching.net/fringe/the-hot-cat-report but I have just done that so you need only check it for answers, or I can post them here. They reference Krivit, who is not a credible source of information on physics, in my opinion. The effects of heat and the use of heat to control chemical and nuclear reactions is well established.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion
The moletrap people are certainly, most of them, emotionally adolescent, self-congratulatory clowns, but they seem knowledgeable about this stuff, so even their sneering opinions might be worth considering. I am sure they would be as happy as you are to see lenr cars, hot-water heaters, furnaces, etc. On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 11:44:56 -0400 (EDT) David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: You must be kidding! Those guys do not have a clue and anyone that follows that non sense is being fooled. The group at moletrap has a hobby of trying to debunk anything that they do not understand. You should have realized by now that these clowns can not admit when they are shown in error to keep up appearances of understanding these systems. They know when they are found wrong, but fail to state it publicly. This would be funny if it were not tragic for these groups to be possibly delaying the introduction of life giving discoveries such as LENR. One day they will be shown completely wrong and will crawl under a rock to avoid blame. Honest skepticism is OK, but what they are doing is plain wrong.
Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question
On Tue, 28 May 2013 16:46:34 -0700 Andrew andrew...@att.net wrote: Thank you for being straightforward on both points. And now we definitively know that the cable itself is secret. Of course, that will not bother the majority of people here. Move along, nothing to see here. I thought that what counted was the amount of power coming from the mains, and the problem was whether or not Rossi had rigged them so that there was 'hidden' power of some kind - DC or hf AC. If the experimenters have ruled that out, and they have an accurate idea of how much power is coming from the mains, what difference does it make if the cable from the black box is secret, or what the 'waveform' looks like? The discussion here sounds like it has degenerated into a spat about who knows more about electricity. Whether or not they have ruled it out, nobody in his right mind would let this single test convert him to a belief in lenr.
Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question
On Wed, 29 May 2013 09:49:26 -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Vorl Bek wrote: Whether or not they have ruled it out, nobody in his right mind would let this single test convert him to a belief in lenr. Perhaps. But anyone in his right mind who looks at all of the experimental evidence for LENR will be convinced. A lot of intelligent people at wavewatching and elsewhere, don't seem to be impressed with the experimental evidence. Since nothing much has been accomplished since 1989, my guess is they are right to be unimpressed. Nobody has been able to shoot this latest test down, as far as I can tell, but so what? If the test that has been done was to compare the efficiency of a couple of coffee makers, I would be happy to accept the results if I thought the testers were competent and disinterested. But lenr is a lot more unlikely to be true from what I read, and there is a lot more at stake with it, so I am not going to believe that the announced results of this test are correct no matter how good a job the testers seem to have done. It is going take several successful tests by different groups of people before I stop thinking Rossi is probably a crook or is deluded.
Re: [Vo]:MODERATOR: J. Cude, extensive Rule 2 violations
On Sat, 11 May 2013 17:53:29 -0500 Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not interested in an inaccessible (non-archived) list like vortex-b, so I'll just slink away. I may post a few responses to Rothwell's latest replies over on wavewatching.net/fringe if they tolerate it. Otherwise, adios. It's been a slice. It is a pity that J Cude is leaving. While I enjoy a True Believer site as much as anyone, after a while it is like eating nothing but dessert - you need some meat and potatoes in the form of articulate skeptics.
Re: [Vo]:MODERATOR: J. Cude, extensive Rule 2 violations
On Sun, 12 May 2013 09:12:56 -0400
Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
If you think there is merit to a skeptical point of view, why don't you
write about it?
I don't know very much about this business and I can not debate it,
but I consider myself to be like a juror listening to the
testimony of experts: I may not understand all of what they say,
but I can get a pretty good idea of which one's testimony makes
the most sense.
Cude's demeanor was consistently polite; the several people he
was up against were rather less polite in many instances, and one
of them was downright churlish.
None of them seemed to me to be as convincing as Cude was.
From reading the exchanges here and on other forums, I have the
impression (my 'verdict') that the evidence for lenr is
either:
anecdotal ('all the water boiled out of the bucket!';'there
was a terrific explosion!' - that sort of report), but that the
events can not be repeated;
or
laboratory curiosities: 3.001 watts out for 3 watts in; or larger
ratios, but can't be achieved regularly, and can not be scaled up;
in fact, according to Cude, claims have been scaled down over
the years.
Despite the cries here that nobody (I assume that means taxpayers)
will give money to allow lenr enthusiasts to do the job they could
do if they had more money, I find it hard to believe that if there
was anything to the lenr effect, that some way of exploiting it
would not have been found since PF in 1989.
In fact, the Japanese gave PF a lab and x million dollars and a
couple of years to repeat their original supposed lenr effect, and
they could not do it.
Re: [Vo]:Hagelstein's editorial
On Thu, 9 May 2013 14:20:42 -0700 Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 2:57 AM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: Again with the semantics. I don't really care what word you use. To me, both polywater and cold fusion are almost certainly bogus phenomena, ... In my vocabulary ... ***Now that your position has been obliterated, you're moving onto Humpty Dumpty definitions. Yet another way we can all see you're full of shit. Admin: any chance you can ban this fellow for a while? In several of his recent posts, he has descended far below the bar for decency you set up for this list.
Re: [Vo]:New image, and site
This reminds me of the Stephen King story about the fellow who had the ability to draw an image which, when looked at by its intended target, caused him to commit suicide a few days later. Of course, this is benign; maybe it could be developed from making someone's hand warm to making him more resistant to disease, or allowing him to sleep better. On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 22:40:06 +1200 John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, I have made a new image that might be more apparent for some. And a website however basic/shoddy: http://aethericsciences.net78.net/ The first image (after the text), open it up in a new window so it displays are the correct size preferably. John
Re: [Vo]:Yildiz motor in Geneva -- ran 5.5 hours then broke down
On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 10:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Analog Fan analogit...@yahoo.com wrote: How could anyone be surprised that there is negativity towards Sterling's capers? As you pointed out, this is exactly the same as countless free energy scams Sterling has been involved with. It's not science or journalism - it's more akin to uncritical fandom for free energy. As this point, Sterling is an increasingly depressing example of the perils of magical thinking, which is unfortunately so common. His continual boosterism has crossed the line from an interest to a pathological obsession. As Sterling's personal finances teeter closer to bankruptcy (he posts them on the site), he appears to be willing to do and say anything to promote the illusion of free energy just around the corner. It wasn't hard to see more or less how it would turn out, but I originally looked at the Yildiz saga as entertainment. At this point, though, it is more sad than anything else. Sterling abandoned the demo for today and went to France to see the 'Kapagen Villa', another overunity scam of some kind.
Re: [Vo]:Tesla to eat GM's lunch?
On Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:15:02 -0700 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: The Tesla S, at its present rate of sales (500/week) is outpacing the Volt... despite its higher price and the lame story from the NY Times ... ... Go Elon, go ... Given your headline to your post, I don't doubt that 'Elon' will go go go if you can help. But looking at the Tesla, or any electric car, more objectively, makes me think they are either for rich people who can use them as toys ($100k for the top of the line Tesla) or for people like me and my wife, who rarely drive more than 75k in a day (Chevy Volt, Prius?). I liked the bit, below, about dispensing with 'amenities' like a heater. Imagine paying 100k but not being able to use a heater; you would just have to have the chauffeur following you around in the BMW to save you when the juice ran out and the cold began to seep in. I don't know when I have seen such a large PR campaign for such a useless machine. http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-57497703-48/on-the-road-in-six-electric-cars/ 2012 Tesla Model S In its top trim, which incidentally costs about $100K, it is a real joy to driveHowever, its efficiency, at 38 kilowatt-hours per 100 miles, is the worst of the lot. Think of it as a performance-oriented electron guzzler. http://www.ibtimes.com/tesla-model-s-review-controversy-can-elon-musk-vanquish-electric-car-stigma-1091504 “That 200 mile stretch between Newark, Del. and Milford, Conn., seems needlessly sweat-inducing,” Valdes-Dapena said after his test drive Test drivers of the Model S have been kind enough to lend their car’s telemetry data to the Web via Twitter, but some of the data we’re seeing is indicative of the prime complaint among users: Distress about the car’s range In his review, Broder said he dispensed with “battery draining amenities” like keeping up with traffic and heating his car in the cold winter weather.
Re: [Vo]:Should We Send a Team to Rescue Curiosity?
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 14:59:40 -0500 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: The report says it would release 20 billion megatons. Surely that is a tad exaggerated.
Re: [Vo]:Should We Send a Team to Rescue Curiosity?
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:33:34 -0500 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote: The report says it would release 20 billion megatons. Surely that is a tad exaggerated. I don't think so. A 10-km object striking at 20 km/s will produce roughly 600 million megatons. See: http://www.astronomynotes.com/solfluf/s5.htm Thanks.
Re: [Vo]:Should We Send a Team to Rescue Curiosity?
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:45:52 -0500 ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: Jed, I am in your camp on this. It is time we figure out all that is orbiting out there, some of it at extremely high speeds and energy levels I believe. There may be less to this than meets the eye. Looking around for something besides Pravda as a reporter, I found: http://io9.com/5986954/could-a-comet-hit-mars-in-2014 It says: === It seems the likelihood of an awesome planetary impact is low — for now. According to calculations by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), close approach data suggests the comet is most likely to make a close pass of 0.0007 AU (that's approximately 63,000 miles from the Martian surface). However, there's one huge caveat. Due to uncertainties in the observations (the comet has only been observed for 74 days), it's difficult for astronomers to forecast the comet's precise location in 20 months time; comet C/2013 A1 may fly past at a very safe distance of 0.008 AU (650,000 miles). But to the other extreme, its orbital pass could put Mars directly in its path. At the time of Mars close approach (or impact), the comet will be barreling along at a breakneck speed of 35 miles per second (126,000 miles per hour). === So nobody knows for sure, but it's unlikely to hit Mars. I may not know what I am talking about, but although Jupiter was hit by Shoemaker-Levy it is closer to the asteroid belt than Earth, which seems like it would make it more likely that an asteroid would wander toward it; being 11 times the diameter of Earth makes it a bigger target, and maybe with umpteen times Earth's gravity it tends to suck in space junk more voraciously than Earth does. I am more worried about being swallowed by one of ChemE's sinkholes than by being clobbered by an asteroid.
Re: [Vo]:The limits of 3-D replicators
On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 19:37:28 -0500 (EST) David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Artificial intelligence will be in control of us if we are not smart enough to place limits upon it. If the human brain can be effectively duplicated with electronics it will become impossible to tell the difference between an android with one and a normal person without difficulty. Really? Can you tell the difference between Charlize Theron and a Mars rover? If you were an android, you might get confused; but evolution allows us to know and appreciate Charlize theron when we see her. Trust your multi-trillion-cell nervous system: it will steer you right, and it will take a lot more to confuse us than an artificial brain, even with the deluxe super-duper-titaniumx skeleton with vat-grown skin and patented fuck-me facial contortions and lower-body gyrations.
Re: [Vo]:rather big fragment of the Chelyabinsk is discovered (fwd)
On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 17:41:11 -0500 ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: Only 9,999.99 tons to go! And what happened to the remains of the Tunguska meteor??? Even if it broke up in the air, there must have been humungous chunks of the thing lying around, but the expeditions found only horizontal trees. And I have always wondered about Meteor Crater in Arizona; I never understood why a little digging did not expose a big chunk of extraterrestrial rock at the centre of the crater; but there is nothing. Any sinkholes in the Tunguska area? Well, they probably never thought to look. And why are craters made by these meteors and asteroids always round? Shouldn't the rocks come in at an angle, on average, and make an oval-shaped crater? Or is it due to the immense densities of the baryonic matter, or whatever it is, that causes them to do a fast curve and zoom right for the black hole at the centre of the earth? Cripes, every time I hit a pothole these days I wonder if some dark matter hasn't shat all over the street.
Re: [Vo]:Russian meteor causes blast; hundreds injured
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:23:22 -0500 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: This video captures the sound of the explosion and breaking glass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8dA2A_df0w This may wake people up and make them realize the need for Spaceguard. Why? The last time a big rock hit earth was the one that exploded in uninhabited Siberia, doing no damage, over a hundred years ago. And when was the one before that? It looks to me like the chance of earth being hit by a rock that does real damage is minuscule. Why spend billions, or is it trillions, on 'spaceguard' to prevent something that will almost certainly never happen?
Re: [Vo]:Russian meteor causes blast; hundreds injured
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 10:04:27 -0500 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote: And when was the one before that? No one knows when the last one was. It might have hit the Pacific. The population was lower. But you are missing the point. Celestial mechanics are highly predictable. The first thing to determine is how many there are and how soon the next one will hit. We already know that the next one that hits will almost certainly be far in the future. We know that because there are no records, as far as I know, of hits before the Tunguska rock; and lower population or not, there would have been records if the rocks had hit frequently enough for us to be worrying about a 'next' occurrence. Why spend billions, or is it trillions, on spaceguard' to prevent something that will almost certainly never happen? 1. You cannot know the certainty level. That's what we have to find out. See above. 2. It will cost billions but not trillions. 3. It will certainly create new knowledge and benefit science. It is worth it for that reason alone. You don't have to spend billions on something that is not going to happen in order to benefit science; spend it on better batteries, better solar panels, even this 'lenr' stuff.
Re: [Vo]:Russian meteor causes blast; hundreds injured
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 16:52:41 -0500 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: They determined that the most recent catastrophic strike was in the year 536 AD, in the ocean north of Australia. This caused global-wide disruption. See this 2008 article: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/06/the-sky-is-falling/306807/?single_page=true So 1500 years ago a rock falling into the ocean caused a couple of cold years, about the equivalent of the Tambora explosion of 1815. European civilization survived that with nary a hiccup. If it had hit land (30 percent chance) it would have caused worse crop failures; still, our European civilization today, with its abundance of food and fuel, would sail through it like it was a summer breeze. BUT we should still be afraid!!, because 5000 years ago, a really big rock hit the ocean and created a 600 foot high tsunami, and if it were to hit land: much of a continent would be leveled; years of winter and mass starvation would ensue. It sounds like gross exaggeration; and anyway, if the thing hit 5000 years ago, when did the previous one hit? Was it 1 years previous, 20,000? Should I lie awake nights about this? This speculation strikes me as chicken little stuff, and not to be concerned about. When, in 100 years, we have a reasonably cheap and effective technology, then, sure, deploy it; for now, the doomsayers should find something more realistic to get hysterical about as a way to suck tax dollars out of my pocket.
Re: [Vo]:Russian meteor causes blast; hundreds injured
On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 18:06:15 -0500 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote: So 1500 years ago a rock falling into the ocean caused a couple of cold years, about the equivalent of the Tambora explosion of 1815. European civilization survived that with nary a hiccup. If it had hit land (30 percent chance) it would have caused worse crop failures . . . ; still, our European civilization today, with its abundance of food and fuel, would sail through it like it was a summer breeze. The object was roughly 200 m in length. No, the article says it was 300m in length and caused the equivalent of the 1815 Tambora explosion. As noted in the article, if a 300 m object -- somewhat bigger -- were to hit land, No, that was the one that hit 5000 years ago and was a kilometer in length. it would have the force of roughly 20,000 Hiroshima bombs and it would destroy an area the size of France. That's ~400 MT, or 10 times the size of the Tsar Bomb, the largest thermonuclear bomb in history. The shock wave would be spread over a much larger area than the Tsar Bomb, the way today's meteor was. I would not call that sailing through like a summer breeze. I would not either, but I was talking about the 300m pebble that was the equivalent of Tambora. If the 1908 Tunguska meteor had struck a city, it would have completely destroyed it. Even the largest city such as London, Paris or New York would have been completely leveled. So what? With 70 percent of the world ocean, and most of the rest NOT London, Paris or New York, in fact with most of the rest pretty much empty, should we be in anguish over the possibility? much of a continent would be leveled; years of winter and mass starvation would ensue. It sounds like gross exaggeration . . . I do not think you know enough about this to judge whether that is gross exaggeration or not. True, and maybe the author really can estimate what a 1k rock can do when it hits earth at x-thousand mph. In fact, I get the impression you are jumping to conclusions about a subject you know nothing about, and dismissing the opinions of scientific experts who have spent years studying these subjects. People often do that with cold fusion and with global warming. It irks me. The article isn't as scary to me as it is to you: 1. There was a Tambora-like rockfall 1500 years ago. And the next Tambora was in 1815, 1400 years later. Why the heck should I be worrying that another Tambora will hit me in the head tomorrow? And, as I said, European civilization would hardly notice it. 2. There was a super-Tambora 5000 years ago. 5000 years ago. And I am supposed to be worried that another one will hit in a few years or decades? I see she talks about big craters under the ocean, but don't we need more than such vague references to start sucking money out of taxpayer's pockets? ; and anyway, if the thing hit 5000 years ago, when did the previous one hit? We don't know. We should find out. More to the point, we should find out when the next one is likely to hit. Was it 1 years previous, 20,000? Should I lie awake nights about this? No, you should advocate sensible scientific research aimed at preventing it. If the last big one was 5000 years ago, my statistical intuition tells me that we have at least a couple hundred years before the next big one hits, and by that time we will have the ability to create an effective 'spaceguard'. This speculation strikes me as chicken little stuff, and not to be concerned about. You strike me as someone who has no qualifications whatever to hold that opinion.
Re: [Vo]:Near earth asteroid info
If we have the ability to deflect large objects, we would probably have the ability simply to nuke them with a 20 megaton bomb and turn them into gravel (presumably). In fact, my vague impression is that we have that ability now or could have it within a decade. A 'spaceguard' of orbiting nukes, at varying distances from the earth, at the orbit of the moon and much farther, would give us the ability to meet the objects at a safe distance from earth. If they are intercepted at a distance far enough from the earth that the earth is, say, 1/1000th of the sphere of space around the object that it 'sees', then the gravel that hits earth would burn up in the atmosphere. Some satellites might be destroyed, but that would be a trade worth making. The scare-movies I have seen about large nukes portray them as having a fireball larger than Manhattan, so I assume they could make mincemeat out of a 1km-wide asteroid; but even if they left several large chunks, the chances of one of the chunks hitting that 1/1000th bit of of the asteroid's sphere would be miniscule. And why not have followup nukes to make smaller chunks out of the larger chunks? As Swift said: a Flea Hath smaller Fleas that on him prey, And these have smaller Fleas to bite 'em, And so proceed ad infinitum
Re: [Vo]:OT Global Warming
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013 09:36:38 -0500 ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: Speaking of cows and CMEs... I believe some of those energetic particles/micro black holes/ball lightning/plasmoid particles expelled from the sun are causing cattle mutilatios on Earth. The low momentum ones move towards heat, like a cow's butt. I enjoy reading your stuff; you are much funnier than Ed Conrad.
Re: [Vo]:OT Global Warming
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013 15:40:49 -0500 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Brad Lowe ecatbuil...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't help that Al Gore's graphs showing a hockey stick increase in temperatures (and hurricanes) has been flat-lined for a decade.) That is incorrect. Temperatures have increased in line with mainstream global warming predictions. I don't follow. Did the predictions of increased temperature say that there would be no increase for the past 16 years, which is the case? http://tinyurl.com/99osz7m http://tinyurl.com/awha4hp Please stick to the facts. - Jed
Re: [Vo]: Magnetic Not Gravitational
On Mon, 21 Jan 2013 16:10:02 -0600 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: Can you send me a paper with your theory explained in details, with calculations and simulations? A story telling in a blog using some nonsensical words would not make it. Thanks, I can not speak for Chem of course, but I have to say that if someone asked me to produce actual *calculations* to justify the many physical theories I dream about, I would be insulted.
Re: [Vo]: Magnetic Not Gravitational
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:33:48 -0500 ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: If you do not think that is strange then take a look at some of those electromagnetic crop circles over the past 20 years and you will realize that this is what they have been telling us all along. If the particles created the crop circles, which I think is what you are saying, then are the particles guided by intelligent beings? Surely they could not make the complex patterns in the crop circles unless they were made deliberately. Or does the intelligence reside in the particles themselves?
Re: [Vo]: Magnetic Not Gravitational
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:01:09 -0600 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: In fact, now that you mention it, Chem, bold spots on top of middle aged man heads could also be created by entropic particles channeled through magnetic reconnection lines? What do you think? If I catch the bastards that did it to me, I'll give them what for.
Re: [Vo]:PLEASE READ, two new rules
Below are two long-standing but unwritten rules of vortex-L: 1. DO NOT FEED A TROLL. If someone is insulting, then you are required to put their address in local killfile. If you don't know what trolls are, and aren't familiar with this issue, do not subscribe to vortex-L Good rule. But to be clear, I don't think the insulters are necessarily trolls, which are defined, as I understand it, as people who are insincere and post to get a rise out of others. The people who took part in the recent rubbish-fest were all sincere as far as I could tell, and I think they recognized that the insults directed at them were sincerely meant. That would make it difficult to put the insulter in a killfile, but I agree that is what needs to be done - unless you want to give them the option of keeping the rubbish in vortexb. 2. REAL IDENTITIES ONLY. This is a semi-pro forum, and we all use our real names here. Users will provide linking info in their posted messages, such as a sig with personal website, Facebook page, mailing addr, etc. Just make sure anyone can verify your real-world identity. I won't be enforcing the second one until I set up an archive system which is private, members-only. I'm looking at groupware services which duplicate the groups function at yahoo and google (both of which have major issues which we've discussed, and I've very intentionally avoided migrating to either one.) But today there are at least three other options. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
[Vo]:The two vortexes
I can't tell the difference between one vortex and the other when I have downloaded the mail from them. If I use the mail client filter to dump messages from both into the same folder, and I am subscribed to both, my reply to a message is transparent to me as to which vortex I am replying to. It seems that might allow fans of someone banned at one place to stay in the loop with the bannee.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi Says .. EMF Directly from the Reactor Core!! (??)
On Wed, 2 Jan 2013 10:50:05 -0500 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: and possibly why Richard Feynman died of Abdominal Cancer. Are you suggesting Feynman got cancer because he was exposed to the Papp device? I know that he was exposed to it, but only for a short time before it exploded. If that was long enough to give him cancer then surely Papp himself must have been exposed to massive amounts of radiation over many years. He would have died after a few months I suppose. I thought Feynman died of cancer because he was exposed to radiation during his work on the Manhattan project.
Re: [Vo]: Sent a message of query off to Mr. Beaty concerning recent trolling activity
On Sat, 22 Dec 2012 17:54:14 -0600 OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: From Vorl: I recently started to block everything from or about him so I do not see anything. A sensible approach. As previously mentioned, I also block his posts. But I also choose not to block the posts of others who may be replying to this troll's posts. That is too much of a draconian approach for me to initiate. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, etc... If on average half of his original post is quoted, how do you avoid seeing it? It seems to me you are undoing your own killfile of his original post. I mean some psychological reason that requires you to see everything going on here, no matter how unpleasant it is to you? I would reply by saying you are being patronizing. You have no idea what I read and don't read on this list. It's pretty clear that you are reading posts by the person you have killfiled by reading replies to him, which gets you worked up enough to ask Bill Beaty to 'administratively' do something about it, i.e. ban the poster. This is what concerns me: copy-cat trolling behavior. I don't think anyone would try copycat trolling unless the original troll was successful in provoking responses. And he won't be successful if people do not respond. They can either ignore him, or if they can not control themselves from replying to everything that makes them indignant, or just dislike reading drivel with their breakfast, they can use the marvelous killfile filters that most email clients have. I ask because I do not feel any such necessity and do not understand why anybody would get bent out of shape about something like what you are talking about. It's quite simple. I'm concerned about the over-all health of the vortex-l list. One word: killfile There are limits of course; I, for example, would demand that Bill Beaty boot anyone who claimed that Rossi has shown no evidence of OU heat generation. Let me get this straight. You could couldn't care less about a poster ranting all over the place about his religious predilections, but OTOH, if someone opines that Rossi has shown now no OU heat generation he should be booted off this list? Are you serious? No Incidentally, I don't want off topic discussions banned, particularly when the subjects being discussed are not meant to antagonize others. Why not use vortexb for off-topic discussions?
Re: [Vo]:[OT] Sent a message of query off to Mr. Beaty concerning recent trolling activity
I haven't seen any trolling here. What I have seen are opinions of one gentleman being depreciated, often with insult, whereupon he answers vigorously. If the people who do not like his opinions would ignore him, or reply politely, I don't think there would be a problem. I recently started to block everything from or about him so I do not see anything. You might try that rather than trying to get him booted off the list, which is what 'administratively' would mean. Is there some reason you can not use killfiles to ignore him; I mean some psychological reason that requires you to see everything going on here, no matter how unpleasant it is to you? I ask because I do not feel any such necessity and do not understand why anybody would get bent out of shape about something like what you are talking about. There are limits of course; I, for example, would demand that Bill Beaty boot anyone who claimed that Rossi has shown no evidence of OU heat generation. But aside from such outrages, unpleasantness can best be dealt with by using a killfile.
Re: [Vo]:Skynet Advances
Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Amundsen to reach the south pole. He was an excellent explorer, and very methodical. He got there and back on schedule without undo risk. But the public never felt good about him because his plan involved shooting dogs along the way, and feeding them to other dogs. Outrageous. He should have been punished instead of feted. A blot on his memory to have cold-bloodedly killed harmless animals in pursuit of a mere attempt to reach the south pole, animals which were not only harmless but loyal and helpful to him and his crew. Truly disgraceful.
Re: [Vo]:Giant potato just misses Earth
It sounds like one of Hannu Poropudas's Space Potatoes.
Re: [Vo]:Continued trolling by Jojo Jaro
On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 12:33:25 -0600 OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: My take on all of this… and I’m sure Jojo is listening in… I just realized that the email client I use, it's called Sylpheed, not only lets you killfile messages from a particular user, or a particular subject, but the darn thing lets you killfile a message that contains a particular word or phrase. While I enjoy Jojo's posts, up to a point, they, and the responses they elicit, are getting to be a pain; so, with the wonderful killfile abilities of this email client, I never have to see Jojo's posts or the ones of people replying to him. I won't even see this one since it contains the Name. My guess is that other good email clients have the same filtering ability; people here might want to use it.
Re: [Vo]:How bad is this news? Jed Rothwell
I seem to recall that Jojo has been called a 'bible fanatic' and worse. Do you expect him to quietly put up with that kind of insult? If you don't like what he says, killfile him, but don't call for his banning because of his less than gentlemanly language; it makes those who do sound like hypocrites.
Re: [Vo]:Michio Kaku: One solar flare could bring many Fukushimas
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 12:10:07 -0500 (EST) pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote: Preventing Armageddon Would Cost Only $100 Million But Congress Is Too Thick to Approve the Fix http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/preventing-armageddon-would-cost-only-100-million-but-congress-is-too-thick-to-approve-the-fix.html From the article: Unfortunately, the world’s nuclear power plants, as they are currently designed, are critically dependent upon maintaining connection to a functioning electrical grid, for all but relatively short periods of electrical blackouts, in order to keep their reactor cores continuously cooled so as to avoid catastrophic reactor core meltdowns I thought that reactors were designed so that inserting rods of some material would kill the reaction. I imagine they would have battery power for long enough to insert the rods; heck, maybe they even have a manual way to crank the motor to do it.
Re: [Vo]:LENR-CANR.org year-end fundraising campaign
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 14:09:13 +0200 Esa Ruoho esaru...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone else object to posts like the one below? I do not. It is always good for Enthusiasts to be cautioned about how they spend their Money, lest, in an Enthusiastick Fit, they spend it Foolishly.
Re: [Vo]:cause of hurracane
It's too bad Long John Nebel is no longer with us; this would have been perfect for his show. On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 13:49:33 -0400 ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: Well Frank, here is why Sandy happened... The low pressure system that Sandy ran into was actually the low pressure trough/contrail she created where she orbited back into the Earth to the West. Based upon the audio I posted Sandy Particle was travelling approx. 1000 miles/second with an approx. 20 second orbital period. She was in a 2-body decaying Kepler orbit with the center of mass of the Earth and her entry wound was near Albion, NY the site of the massive sinkhole that shutdown the Erie Canal a couple of months ago. Stewart Darkmattersalot.com
[Vo]:Aliens Favour Romney
It looks like Aliens (interstellar types) favour Romney for President. http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/romney-temp/
Re: [Vo]:Everything I Needed to Know about Cold Fusion was in a......Crop Circle?
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:21:06 -0400 ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: I am not sure, but appears to me that the circles in the attached photos might be showing us Cold Fusion. Maybe they were created by drunken englishmen, maybe not. They were probably created by drunken physicists.
Re: [Vo]:Crowdfunding and cold fusion
On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:14:17 -0400 hyuk...@asia.com wrote: Def: Ad Nauseum = Jojo Re: [Vo]:Blather in the mass media makes scientists think we are crazy Jojo Jaro Tue, 07 Aug 2012 17:48:28 -0700 Alan, the link is interesting and if you are suggesting that I should take this Obama Ineligibility discussion there, I am not the one you should be concerned about. Jed started this mess with a insult to Birthers. My responses on this stops the minute no one else throws another insult or ridicule. Good for you. Some of these people need to have their smugness-level lowered.
Re: [Vo]:Koch founded climate skeptic changes sides
On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:20:49 -0400 David L Babcock ol...@rochester.rr.com wrote: On 7/30/2012 3:27 PM, Chemical Engineer wrote: It seems to me that if LENR is real and scalable and we have approx 50 years to turn things around, some new industries that should arise, based upon sound scientific data are: 1) Cooling of oceans to stable, pre-industrial temperatures using evaporative cooling, etc requiring lots of LENR pumping HP, which is now virtually free 2) 3) ... And big ass LENR pumps for all the cities to keep the water out until 1-3 are effective. I at first missed the word cities So had a brief vision of thousands of (will be) former beach dwellers now looking at the ocean with closed circuit TV, from the bottoms of their 100 foot tall cast cement silos, while huge pumps howl to keep their patches of sand dry. Somebody, somewhere, mentioned that because cities are constantly being re-worked, ocean levels will, if they rise, simply cause the re-working to shift away from the sea side. There won't be any disaster or even noticeable inconvenience. No, I don't care if Bangladesh sinks beneath the Global-Warmed ocean. And Anthony Watts et al (at Wattsupwiththat.com) have pre-published a study showing that if you use sites to measure temperature that conform to the ISO standard, the increase since the 70s works out to about .135 degrees C, not the .350 C that NOAA claims. And things like 'Climategate' make me think that a lot of the so-called 'Climate Scientists' are more interested in getting grants and ego boosts than they are in real science. And don't forget the mass media which likes to trumpet anything they think will draw readers, which equals higher rates for ads. As WUWT points out constantly and humorously, the idiotic stories about polar bears stuck on melting ice floes, and tornadoes increasing (they have actually decreased in recent years), are apparently irrestistible to the ad-revenue-lusting mass media. Not to mention the poor boobs who have turned 'Global Warming' (or is it Climate Change, or is it Climate Disruption) into a pathetic religion. What a circus.
Re: [Vo]:Koch founded climate skeptic changes sides
On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:19:34 -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: No, I don't care if Bangladesh sinks beneath the Global-Warmed ocean. If you mean that, you are an inhuman monster. You have to have priorities. Mine are for my own people. If you really care about the miseries of the entire planet, I don't see how you remain sane. By the way, it is not true that people in the U.S. or German were unaware of the Holocaust as it was happening. Everyone in my family knew about it, because they were killing off our European relatives. The ones who escaped told us. Everyone knew. My relatives died in the Holocaust too, and everybody knew, but nobody cared - still don't. Many of my German relatives were blown to bits by Allied terror bombing; others in Sileisa were murdered by Red Army troops. There are even Holocaust deniers who say that not so many Germans died, and there are disgusting Holocaust abstainers who don't care that Germans died, and even inhuman Holocaust advocates! who say my relatives had it coming. -- Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com
Re: [Vo]:Koch founded climate skeptic changes sides
On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:04:35 -0400 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: This makes no sense. These are technical problems. If you find a technical solution your own people you can apply just as easily to everyone else in the world. Sounds terrific. If people like you want to make sure the Bangladeshis are swimming in ecats instead of salt water, be my guest. Do you think that when people in the third world have cell phones and e-books and access to all the libraries on earth, that will somehow hurt you, or prevent you from having a cell phone? Do you think than indoor food factories in India will take bread from your table? I don't know what you are going on about. You seem to equate a lack of interest in someone's problems as enmity toward them or fear of them. I don't care if they have cell phones or food factories or whatnot. Their problems or successes don't interest me, and the need you seem to have to get people to be interested in Bangladeshis seems bizarre to me.
Re: [Vo]:FYI: A New Model for Matter, Space and Energy
! ! ! CONGRATULATIONS Mr. M. A. B. Garstin; you NAILED IT! ! ! This suggests that the constitution of a proton is, in fact, simply EM radiation at energy levels above that of gamma. big snip Amazing. 600 words or so without a break; not, I admit, that I would have read all of them in any form. Another edit-challenged poster to the killfile. Hit the road Jack.
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]: Daves Demon and Radiation Free LENR
I've always wondered if this were a red herring designed to lead astray those intent upon creating bombs. ;) All I know is that the magazine that published the 'secret' of the h-bomb said it was radiation pressure from the a-bomb trigger that compressed the fuel for the h-bomb. The US government had suppressed the magazine but finally relented when someone else went public with the same information. It sounds like the magazine had the goods, but maybe it was a vast disinformation campaign and the secret remains safe. The internet is wonderful. It was the 'Progressive' magazine that published the secret. The issue is even online: http://www.scribd.com/doc/80517266/The-Progressive-The-H-Bomb-Secret-How-We-Got-It-Why-We-re-Telling-It
Re: [Vo]:OT: Please! Let's do our part and keep OFF-TOPIC off this list!
Jed, I agree. Cold Fusion touches every aspect of our lives and society, but that does not mean every aspect of our lives and society is appropriate for this forum. One may argue that some topics are marginally relevant but surely, you can agree that some topics are way off topic. Surely you can agree that Wisconsin politics, school lunches, dead Everest Bodies and the like are completely inappropriate. (Although I did find Everest Dead Bodies Interesting to say the least.) And with vortex b available for off-topic stuff, there is no need for it here. Vortex b gets very few topics; it is not a cesspool or pit or whatever it is that orionworks thinks it is. There is a Grok living there, but surely he can be ignored. And even if it is a pit, that's tough: why should we be stuck with political and other junk here? Take it to the pit, where it belongs. I think it is time for another exemplary banning.
Re: [Vo]:OT: Wisconsin will chose their governor in less than 24 hours
This is another OFF TOPIC Wisconsin Political commentary. If not interested, please skip this post! You have been warned! Why don't you use vortex-b for this stuff?
Re: [Vo]: brand new twisted conspiracy theory
I think you should develop more you story. It has a decent premise, I think. It reminds me of the scifi story about the benign aliens who own earth but have kept to a hands-off policy all these millennia. Because of a shakeup in galactic politics, they sell earth to a coalition which believes in making your property work for you. I think the story was called 'Sold Down the River'.
Re: [Vo]:Unidentified subject!
Can you tell us what is so special about the coolcube? It looks like just another solar panel, with some fresnel lenses to concentrate the sunlight. I admit I know little about the technical points, but haven't schemes like this been tried for years? Why should your plastic lenses be any better than the ones tried by lots of others which, from anything I have heard, are not exactly revolutionizing the energy field. I know one place here in town that has a bunch of solar panels on its roof - no concentrating lenses. He must have spent a bundle on them, but did not think that concentrating lenses would give him a bigger bang for his buck. Good luck with it.
Re: [Vo]:International Conference The Atom Unexplored - May 4th, 2012
From Akira, I forgot to add that all this information came from 22passi: http://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/04/latomo-inesplorato-torino-4-maggio-2012.html Jones sez: Fabulous cover-art image - reminiscent of a Serpinski fractal - Menger sponge. etc. Metaphorical to the Casimir-instigated Ni-H reaction of Roarty, et al. Anyone know the artist? The link is blocked where I work. Can anyone copy a piccy of the cover-art to a less offensive link? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks See if you can go to http://1proxy.de Then type the link in from there.
Re: [Vo]:International Conference The Atom Unexplored - May 4th, 2012
From Akira, I forgot to add that all this information came from 22passi: http://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/04/latomo-inesplorato-torino-4-maggio-2012.html Jones sez: Fabulous cover-art image - reminiscent of a Serpinski fractal - Menger sponge. etc. Metaphorical to the Casimir-instigated Ni-H reaction of Roarty, et al. Anyone know the artist? The link is blocked where I work. Can anyone copy a piccy of the cover-art to a less offensive link? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks I screwed it up. It should be http://www.1proxy.de
Re: [Vo]:In the foodsteps of Jules Verne
That does not seem to be issue. EW do not mention it. The only materials issue is space junk poking holes in the ribbons. Space junk has to be cleaned up, and it could be with a multi-ribbon space elevator. You would have to devote one ribbon to an interceptor craft for several months. How do you stop meteorites from hitting the ribbons?
Re: [Vo]:Future transportation with cold fusion and robots
They have human drivers so they are expensive. The drivers are often surly... A slur such as 'surly' surely does not apply to the great majority of drivers.
Re: [Vo]:defkalion eyewitness
Interesting ... but I hope it isn't that Aussie Guy . Interesting comments a couple of posts down, too, concerning Rossi and a report of the 1MW going unstable during the test. - Original Message - there is a guy 'woomera' over at Chris Martensons forum, who claims to have visited Defkalion: read it there (post #43) http://www.chrismartenson.com/forum/cold-fusion/51623?page=4#comments Aussie Guy / Greg Watson exchanged notes with Defkalion on their blog, stating his interest on behalf of the company he works for. Even if the project with Rossi was shot down, his company may still be interested in Defkalion, or have had their interest re-kindled, and have sent Woomera / Greg Watson to check them out.
Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
Please take this to vortexb.
Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens
Ion-propulsion is highly inefficient, but because it produces only a limited amount of power, the equivalence of a piece of paper resting on your hand (please, whatever you do don't vast snip I have to killfile this guy. I guess he is trying to write in html, but it comes across as a 65-line run-on sentence. I checked the vortex-l website to make sure it wasn't just my email reader and his posts there are the same unreadable globs of words as they are in my email reader. People should at least throw in a line of white space every 3 or 4 lines.
Re: [Vo]:Sterling Allan / S-African Free Fuel Generator FFG trip
From Daniel Damn! HE IS TOTALLY INSANE I CANNOT STOP LAUGHING HAHAHAHAHA! :D Sterling is simply behaving like an evangelist of a different cloth. All evangelists want to spread the good news. Some more obnoxiously that others. ;-) Did Sterling speak in Greek (or tongues)?
Re: [Vo]:A huge Rossi (bad) thing to be revealed soon. (Daniele Passerini)
I have been reading Mary's stuff since the early Steorn days and if she is not a woman I will eat my hat.
Re: [Vo]:Forum ?
Hello Im following this group with great interest, im a e-cat experimental device builder. I have a question to the group, would you guys like a Forum instead of discussing mail wise ? I could get a new forum up and running in an hour or so, we can set someone as moderator, or have a group of moderators - admin . Will you let Mary Yugo join?
[Vo]:Rossi's Best Chance
Wolf Fischer wrote: there have been two different news lately: The first one being that Ampenergo seemingly has gone inactive (although I don't know what this exactly means, if this is even the company which is related to Leonardo, how this would affect Rossi, etc.): http://ecatnews.com/?p=1897 Second: The University of Bologna has seemingly terminated the contract with Rossi, as Krivit has posted: http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2012/01/24/university-of-bologna-terminates-relationship-with-rossi/ It seems to me Rossi's best chance is to hold conference calls with mom-and-pop investors and ask them to contribute $100 so that Rossi can do the last bit of engineering needed to stabilize the e-cat and allow him to run it for more than 4 hours. In return, they will get a $500 credit on whatever e-cat model they decide to buy, whenever the model gets made. The way it looks now, Rossi's enterprise is tottering, but he seems to have a number of Believers who would probably fork over the $100 or even more.
Re: [Vo]:Greg Watson is VERY rude!
Eff: Who cares? This is personal garbage. Please get it OFF VORTEX. Take your personal vendetta someplace else. At least take it to vortexb. Grok is waiting.
Re: [Vo]:Interesting new video from ecat.com
Andre, Question: Is the container gone? Answer: Yes. Can't be much simpler than that. Maybe the container in the video and picture is a demo, like the ones in car showrooms. The one the customer actually buys is the one from the lot or the one being manufactured that is shipped in a week later. When Rossi says the container is 'gone', maybe he means another container from some other factory. Or maybe it is the container in the picture that he is talking about, but he means it is 'gone' in some legal sense - it is now the property of the buyer and Rossi is just putting on the finishing touches.
Re: [Vo]:Goodbye Greg
What if AG is Greg Watson? Most of the posts to this list in regard to Rossi are dream-stuff anyway. Why ask for reality at this point? AG's stuff is entertaining; that should be enough for anybody here. If AG is accused of being Watson, he may stop posting and make this a poorer place.
Re: [Vo]:Hank Mills: NASA, MIT, and the DOE have blood on their hands.
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: -- One of these individuals would have been the next nuclear-armed H* Is Hitler's name still so painful to contemplate that it can't be spelt out 68 years after the war ended? Maybe we should start writing S* and M** T** T*** as well.
Re: [Vo]:UNSUBSRIBE
Unsubscribeunsubscribeunsubscribe... I've tried 4 times to get off this mailing list. This is the fifth! It's like the Roach Motel - you can go in but you don't come out.
Re: [Vo]:Simple, even simple-minded tests can be a great help in understanding these things
I think MY is doing a good job here. If it were not for her, Cude, and a few others, this place would see a frenzy of chicken-counting before the hatching takes place, at least when it comes to Rossi.
Re: [Vo]:Jed and others 2012 predictions please
I sent a reply to vortex-b The sig should have read: http://wattsupwiththat.com For a Better World, With Fewer Mouths To Feed - They will be worth more.
Re: [Vo]:Rossi announces a titanic step forward, how he will deal with competitors and 1m E-Cats for 2012
In ecatnews.com http://ecatnews.com/?p=1727, Paul Story commented: [The idea that we have two fraudulant entities outbidding each other in an open exchange of illusionary pricing – shouting at each other from opposite sides of the Atlantic Ocean – is too bizarre to be given space except in recognising it as a small possibility.] We all want Rossi, or Defkalion, or somebody, to have the goods, but the comedy gold in such a situation as Story describes almost makes me hope they really are conmen.
Re: [Vo]:We have FPE cells
MaryYugo Wrote: Want respect, not mention tons of fame and fortune? Close the loop and make them self running except for (rare) refueling. You'd be the first. That's for sure. I wonder why the people AG bought the gadgets from did not close the loop, or why the high school students who made something amazing (supposedly) did not close the loop. Nobody ever closes the loop.
Re: [Vo]:We have FPE cells
Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote: Nobody ever closes the loop. That is incorrect. Many people have closed the loop, starting with Fleischmann and Pons. In cold fusion jargon, closing the loop is called running in heat after death mode. Fleischmann once called it fully ignited, borrowing the term from the plasma fusion scientists. Why didn't FP, and all the other people who closed the loop, arrange demos, public or private, to interest investors? After 22 years, and all those loop-closing experiments, why do we still not have a Mr. Fusion water heater?
Re: [Vo]:POLITICAL What is the best way to advocate?
Jed Rothwell says: Do you think OPEC and Big Coal will be thrilled? You think they will roll over and play dead? They will demand that it be banned. And when the Chinese and Japanese and everybody with a brain starts churning out ecats, will Big Coal knock on their door and demand that they ban the technology? You live in a fantasy world. If CF were real, nobody could stop it. Cold fusion was suppressed and nearly destroyed by a handful of academic hacks... Really? I thought it fell on its ass - PF were set up with a lab in France by the Japanese and had $$ to spend. They came up with nothing. The 22 years of supposed successful experiments proving CF are probably more like 22 years of anecdotes and laboratory curiosities.
Re: [Vo]:Miley and other professors can only take money from official sources
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Gene went from a top academic career to working in a warehouse at night to feed his family. He was a science writer. Respectable, yes. Top academic career, no. Fleischmann and Pons had a terrible time. Too much money? They had better funding after the CF announcement than at any previous time in their careers. I think it traumatized Pons. It did not bother Fleischmann as much because he is a tough, cynical person who had nightmare experiences during WWII. The Gestapo beat his father to death, and he himself barely escaped. Your arguments for cold fusion are aiming for the gut, not the mind... He told me that he knew calling that press conference would mean the end of his career. It would seem the reports on the sociology of CF are about as reliable as those on the science. It was not the end of his career. He was already resigned from his academic position at Southampton, so he had no job to lose. As it happens, he worked in a well funded lab in France until 1995, when he retired. France is not Siberia. How is that the end of his career? He knew he would be vilified and ridiculed for the rest of his life. So he says now, but his self-satisfied grinning during the press conferences after the announcement tell a different story. He went into it knowing what would happen. Right. That his research would be well funded until retirement. Until the announcement, PF were funding the experiments themselves. That was an act of courage. It was an act of fear. Fear that someone else would get priority. It is good some debunking of Rothwell's fantastic history.
Re: [Vo]:Miley and other professors can only take money from official sources
Jed Rothwell wrote: You did not know him. You did not spend weeks at his house, as I did. You do know what he accomplished, or what difficulties he faced. So I suggest you stop making ignorant assertions about him. I think you have Cude killfiled, or you would know that he wrote what you are replying to.
Re: [Vo]:Miley and other professors can only take money from official sources
Jed Rothwell wrote: I do have him killfiled. For my peace of mind. I apologize if I mixed you up with him. I wasn't paying much attention to the top of the message, or who wrote it. Sorry about that. That's OK. To the degree I can follow this, I agree with him rather than you or the other optimists here.
Re: [Vo]:Miley and other professors can only take money from official sources
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Vorl Bek vorl@antichef.com wrote: That's OK. To the degree I can follow this, I agree with him rather than you or the other optimists here. Then what is the reason for your presence on this list? To turn optimism into pessimism? To fix those optimists? I was being polite by calling Jed and the other 'believers' optimists; in reality, I think they are believing in something for which there are no rational grounds to believe. Although I am fairly ignorant, I can steer by the old saying that extraordinary claims require solid proof - lots of independent replications. Rossi hasn't done even one. He acts like a con man. I don't expect Jed or any of the other believers in this nonsense to change their minds until Rossi confesses. If he is jailed without admitting he is a phony, the believers will add him to their roll of martyrs in the CF cause. Even if he confesses they will probably say that he lost his mind due to the tortures inflicted by the servants of Big Oil. To answer your question, my presence on the list is to be entertained, and, if possible, to provide entertainment.
Re: [Vo]:CALL FOR REDIRECT OF SOME TOPICS OR DISCUSSIONS TO VORTEX-B
I presume this is in reference to vortex-b. Unfortunately, vortex-b is set up as a no-holds bar forum where anything goes. Long ago I stopped subscribing to b because what goes on there disgusts me. Anybody can join b and not fear being removed simply because there are no rules. It's turned into a place where people argue for the sake of arguing. It's a dumping ground which allows trolls to continue to feed on their habit of attacking others. IMO, It would be a disgrace to place useful informative off topic issues on b. Your 'b' must be different from the one I subscribe to. I haven't seen a post there in months, aside from the test I just did. I don't know if the topic should be moved there, but the place is not a sleazy barroom, it's more like an abandoned village meeting hall.
Re: [Vo]:CALL FOR REDIRECT OF SOME TOPICS OR DISCUSSIONS TO VORTEX-B
It's called the scorched earth syndrome. Things got so bad that most, myself included, simply subscribed out of b. I suspect the trolls are still however. They are still subscribed to b, abiding their time, waiting to pounce. If everybody feels that way, 'b' will never be used. It could at least be tried out if anybody thinks his posts are more appropriate there than here. And if the trolls want to make trouble, they can do it here as well as there. Bill Beatty can ban them from there as well as from here.
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
As I said, most cold fusion research is done on a shoestring, tucked away in a corner were the people in charge will not notice it. You have to keep a low profile in this business. So please do not write letters to the Navy demanding this be allowed. You will only make things worse. I will greatly regret relaying this news here if people bring pressure on the Navy, and the Navy makes life even more miserable for cold fusion researchers. What difference does any of that make? Rossi is churning out megawatts of e-cats and Defkalion is preparing to sell their well-engineered devices. Customers will talk, they will show off their new toys, they will contact the highest officials. China will steal the technology and heat yurts in Tibet and sell e-cats to Sears. The battle has been won. The genie is out of the bottle. Rossi's demos have proven cold fusion is real. Haven't they?
Re: [Vo]:Mass media exposure kills SPAWAR cold fusion research
It remains to be seen whether Rossi's demonstrations and sales will convince the wider world. How can they not? The October 28 customer has had the 50 e-cats for 6 weeks. I can hear the dialogue now: So how's it going with the e-cats, Manny? The sons-of-guns have been running for six weeks, Bob, and no sign of slowing down! It's the damndest thing Any luck on reverse engineering the core? Hell, yes! In fact, we are building them now. Our insider at Defkalion has given us the plans for their enhanced geometry, so that the reaction will be more controllable. Can we beat Rossi to the punch with a patent? I think so; the guy is a genius, but he tends to run off in all directions at once. Meanwhile, Chinese spies disguised as trustworthy visiting japanese researchers have been photographing the plans with a camera built into their horn-rimmed glasses and emailing them back to Beijing, where
Re: [Vo]:What is so special abbout Rossi?
There are scientists that report much better results: http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/cf/204israel.html citation: - Run #64b gave 1500% excess heat over a duration of 80 hours with a total excess energy of 4.6 Megajoules So, why do they all stare at Rossi and his poor COP and questionable methods? Because Rossi turned it from science into a circus, with the videos and blog and interviews. The mass media has mostly had enough sense to reserve judgement until he shows some proof, but fortunately, fan sites like this one keep the entertainment going.
Re: [Vo]:What is so special abbout Rossi?
The circus is the continual refusal by deniers that call over 1 year of published peer reviewed (Levi, Kullander, Celani, etc) test data rubbish when it is the deniers that are making up rubbish claims. You want science? Wait until Rossi sells me a E-Cat and you can give it your all, that is up to my warranty limits. If you are so sure Rossi has the goods, why don't you pay him the money now - none of that escrow nonsense - in return for a 10 percent discount, or for putting you at the top of the waiting list - or both?
Re: [Vo]:Re: Krivit article on NASA Forum
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: So Steorn were not true scammers? No, just stupid. And usually drunk. What is it so far ~16 million? Not bad for a bunch of stupid drunks.
Re: [Vo]:Ni producer
not so false. according to Rossi's E-cat figures, it would consume 25% of annual Ni production to produce the annual energy. According to one of the big conspiracy sites the e-cat's core is literally a roll of US nickels (plus the catalyst).
