At 08:04 PM 8/17/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
At 04:11 PM 8/17/2011, Joe Catania wrote:
The NASA calculations seem to have no validity. It dosen't seem
possible to pin down the quality. There is not enough information to do so.
That's my whole point. There IS enough information. In fact, the
At 08:42 PM 8/17/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
Hmm. Not all Arabs are Muslims... In my city, most of them are
catholic Christians and there are almost no Muslims.
2011/8/17 Alan J Fletcher mailto:a...@well.coma...@well.com
At 04:41 PM 8/17/2011, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
I'll take on your bet
At 08:25 PM 8/17/2011, Joe Catania wrote:
Whatever the quality of the steam produced is, as far as I can see,
going to go over into the hose unchanged. There is no facility in
Rossi's device for superheating as far as we know.
It will get a little wetter from condensation due to expansion at
At 08:20 PM 8/17/2011, Harry Veeder wrote:
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com
Actually, that's not correct. Lewan apparently
said that he noticed the same behavior with the
sound each time he went to look at the steam outlet.
Where did he say that? That is news to me. I am
At 08:08 PM 8/17/2011, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
Your figure of 75% you seem to have made up. You wrote:
No, I read it off this chart by Steiner-Taborek :
http://lenr.qumbu.com/steampics/110816_steam_0014.png
I have presented ample evidence that dryout occurs, that it
correlates with steam
I've put up a new version at http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_v410C.php
Scroll down to 11 Work in Progress -- where I review some stuff on
flow diagrams.
Unfortunately the calculations needed to derive the drypoint (and
other stages) are beyond my capability and resources.
However, I
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Answering Krivit #3: eCat steam quality must be above 75%
(above 4300 Watts)
I've put up a new version at
http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_v410C.php
Scroll down to 11 Work in Progress -- where I review some stuff on flow
diagrams.
Unfortunately the calculations needed
http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_v410A.php (Working
Draft)
Comments and corrections appreciated -- either through vortex or directly
AbstractThe issue of Steam Quality greatly impacts the
calculations on the actual excess energy.
This issue is extensively analyzed by Steven B. Krivit
At 12:30 PM 8/17/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_v410A.php (Working Draft)
Comments and corrections appreciated -- either through vortex or directly
Abstract
The issue of Steam Quality greatly impacts the calculations on the
actual excess energy.
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_v410A.php
http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_v410A.php%A0 (Working Draft)
The hidden portion of the URL is wrong. This should be:
http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_v410A.php
(looks the same but isn't)
-
I have some corrections though. In one of the appendices, I have to find
where, the loss in a 4m hose is about 400W. Rossi said that the ecat wastes
100W within the bulk of the device. So, the actual output is 3/4*(4900-500)=
3300W. I suppose there are also wasted energy to manage the operate the
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote:
I suppose there are also wasted energy to manage the operate the device.
You mean, to power the electronics. I believe this is ~30 W.
- Jed
At 11:05 AM 8/17/2011, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
I'll answer your points in detail later. As I said, it's a work in progress.
But I specifically indicate that the dryout is the point at which
there is no liquid water on the tube wall. There IS still liquid
water in the form of droplets in
At 11:18 AM 8/17/2011, you wrote:
I have some corrections though. In one of the appendices, I have to
find where, the loss in a 4m hose is about 400W. Rossi said that the
ecat wastes 100W within the bulk of the device. So, the actual
output is 3/4*(4900-500)= 3300W. I suppose there are also
It is 80W per meter. This calculation supports that:
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/37/3709appendixa4.shtml
So, let's see 740*6=4400. So, 3/4*4400 = 3300.
BTW, I think Krivit won't accept anything you write. He wants just negative
opinions about Rossi.
At 12:11 PM 8/17/2011, Daniel Rocha wrote:
BTW, I think Krivit won't accept anything you write. He wants just
negative opinions about Rossi.
Maybe not but Rossi might !! (and I have another publication channel).
Subject: [Vo]:Answering Krivit #3: eCat steam quality must be above 75%
(above 4300 Watts)
http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_v410A.php (Working Draft)
Comments and corrections appreciated -- either through vortex or directly
Abstract
The issue of Steam Quality greatly impacts
Subject: [Vo]:Answering Krivit #3: eCat steam quality must be above 75%
(above 4300 Watts)
http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_v410A.php (Working Draft)
Comments and corrections appreciated -- either through vortex or directly
Abstract
The issue of Steam Quality greatly impacts
At 02:36 PM 8/17/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
At 11:05 AM 8/17/2011, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
I'll answer your points in detail later. As I said, it's a work in progress.
But I specifically indicate that the dryout is the point at which
there is no liquid water on the tube wall. There IS
-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Answering Krivit #3: eCat steam quality must be above 75%
(above 4300 Watts)
At 02:36 PM 8/17/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
At 11:05 AM 8
Joe Catania wrote:
How do you explain the low velocity of steam at exit of E-Cat?
No one measured the velocity as far as I know. There were some videos
taken of it, but they do not prove anything.
I recently borrowed a steam cleaner trying to fix bathroom grout. I
looked at videos of
At 12:26 PM 8/17/2011, Joe Catania wrote:
How do you explain
the low velocity of steam at exit of E-Cat? This surely damns 75%
dryness?
I'm not convinced that has been proved.
Please post a link
which covers Kettle Tube boilers and Dryout .
Kettle isn't very relevant to the eCat. Follow the
re concise, pointed emphasis on specifics, very objective, by Abd -- thanks
anyone yet trying a dummy replication of the Rossi device by using
an electric, pencil-shape resistor heater in a clear glass tube with
fixed input water flow?
Peter Gluck and others are talking up Francesco Pianelli:
measured was not
relevant. Certainly there is nowhere near 10m/s flow at the end of the hose.
- Original Message -
From: Jed Rothwell
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Answering Krivit #3: eCat steam quality must be above 75
measured was not
relevant. Certainly there is nowhere near 10m/s flow at the end of the hose.
- Original Message -
From: Jed Rothwell
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Answering Krivit #3: eCat steam quality must be above 75
A new version is up : http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_v410B.php
I've rewritten it distinguishing FLUID from LIQUID, and replaced Watts by W.
And I found a new diagram for the Drypout, which is explicitly scaled
to the flow pattern diagram:
At 12:43 PM 8/17/2011, you wrote:
At 02:36 PM 8/17/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
At 11:05 AM 8/17/2011, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
I'll answer your points in detail later. As I said, it's a work in progress.
But I specifically indicate that the dryout is the point at which
there is no liquid
Alan, i am not sure what was the method that you used to end up into 4.4 kW.
But there was that youtube video where it was boiled 4.4kW water with Rossi
like setup. And there was considerably more steam than with Krivit's E-Cat.
Also it is easier to calculate the total output of E-Cat calculating
Joe Catania wrote:
The Rossi machine, judging from what comes out of the hose is not
producing any anomalous heat.
You cannot judge what comes out of the hose. You have not measured it;
not the speed, or the temperature, the dryness or any other parameter.
You know practically nothing about
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
If you mean my numbers -- Given 75% dry I just read off the wattage on the
Nasa diagram. Steam quality on the T-h diagram is linear between points B
and C. I grew up with REAL instruments, where one learns to read a scale to
about 5% accuracy between tick
On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
People are obsessed with meaningless extra decimal digits of precision these
days. After electronic calculators were invented, my mother said it is a
shame people don't learn to use slide rules anymore, because they
At 02:36 PM 8/17/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
But I specifically indicate that the dryout is the point at which
there is no liquid water on the tube wall. There IS still liquid
water in the form of droplets in the vapour.
I made a mistake in responding to Mr. Fletcher's work, I didn't
Krivit #3: eCat steam quality must be above 75%
(above 4300 Watts)
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
If you mean my numbers -- Given 75% dry I just read off the wattage on the
Nasa diagram. Steam quality on the T-h diagram is linear between points B and
C. I grew up with REAL
possible.
- Original Message -
From: Jed Rothwell
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Answering Krivit #3: eCat steam quality must be above 75%
(above 4300 Watts)
Joe Catania wrote:
The Rossi machine, judging from what
At 03:49 PM 8/17/2011, Joe Catania wrote:
One thing I think we have to admit is even if the steam flow rate is
at the calculated ~10m/sec necessary (which dosen't appear to be the
case), at the outlet of the E-Cat, that this would probably be
sufficient to entrain high quantities of liquid
At 03:57 PM 8/17/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Joe Catania wrote:
How do you explain the low velocity of steam at exit of E-Cat?
No one measured the velocity as far as I know. There were some
videos taken of it, but they do not prove anything.
To anyone who has studied the volume of steam
(neglecting 100C metal surfaces). This gives ample opportunity
to create wet steam.
- Original Message -
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Answering Krivit #3: eCat steam
(neglecting 100C metal surfaces). This gives ample opportunity
to create wet steam.
- Original Message -
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Answering Krivit #3: eCat steam
At 04:51 PM 8/17/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
A new version is up : http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_v410B.php
I've rewritten it distinguishing FLUID from LIQUID, and replaced Watts by W.
And I found a new diagram for the Drypout, which is explicitly
scaled to the flow pattern diagram:
At 05:05 PM 8/17/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
What was really unusual for the Rossi boiler, what threw almost
everyone off, was constant water flow. The implications of this
were not realized, because it was something that even experts had
probably never seen. And Galantini was certainly not
At 04:11 PM 8/17/2011, Joe Catania wrote:
The NASA
calculations seem to have no validity. It dosen't seem possible to pin
down the quality. There is not enough information to do so.
That's my whole point. There IS enough information. In fact, the
temperatures and pressure don't matter.
The
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote:
No one measured the velocity as far as I know. There were some videos taken
of it, but they do not prove anything.
To anyone who has studied the volume of steam expected from full
vaporization as claimed, those videos raise substantial
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Answering Krivit #3: eCat steam quality must be above 75%
(above 4300 Watts)
At 04:11 PM 8/17/2011, Joe Catania wrote:
The NASA calculations seem to have no validity. It dosen't seem possible to
pin down the quality
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com
Actually, that's not correct. Lewan apparently said that he noticed the same
behavior with the sound each time he went to look at the steam outlet.
Where did he say that? That is news to me. I am not even aware of Lewan
commenting on the
At 05:09 PM 8/17/2011, Joe Catania wrote:
I don't think so.
The quality can be anything from 0 to 1 but it is likely to be very wet.
There is no diagram that can tell you the quality as is insinuated in the
Nasa article. Chimney overflowing with what?
Overflowing with fluid, liquid water.
17, 2011 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Answering Krivit #3: eCat steam quality must be above 75%
(above 4300 Watts)
At 05:09 PM 8/17/2011, Joe Catania wrote:
I don't think so. The quality can be anything from 0 to 1 but it is likely
to be very wet. There is no diagram that can tell you
At 04:41 PM 8/17/2011, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
I'll take on your bet that a 5% Dry fully-atomized stream is
possible. One pint of beer/glass of wine ?
I don't drink alcohol. Read the name.
My apologies. Equivalent value, then ... say $5. Means of delivery to
be determined.
Hmm. Not all Arabs are Muslims... In my city, most of them are
catholic Christians and there are almost no Muslims.
2011/8/17 Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com
At 04:41 PM 8/17/2011, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
I'll take on your bet that a 5% Dry fully-atomized stream is possible.
One pint of
At 04:41 PM 8/17/2011, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
That's 11 litres or 3 Gallons. I think he'd have noticed that.
Lewan found about half the water ended up in the bucket. He noticed
it, in other words, he measured it. Unfortunately, he did not
examine it closely enough. It would have been far
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