Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Mike Dupont]

On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Michel Vuijlsteke wrote:

> And we may want to consider if it is really _everyone_ we want
> > to edit our articles.
> I don't believe you actually said this.
>

I would say this is a theme that I have seen on the wikipedia. People dont
have time to take new editors by the hand, for example 12 year old kids who
write articles about themselves are deleted instead of being nicely told to
turn the page into their user page for example, the list goes on and on.
mike

-- 
James Michael DuPont
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion
http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
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[Wikimedia-l] IRC office hours with the Analytics team, Monday, July 30, 2012 at 19:00 UTC

[Tilman Bayer]

Hi all,

you are cordially invited to the first ever IRC office hours of the
Foundation's recently formed Analytics team, taking place in
#wikimedia-analytics on Freenode on Monday, July 30 at 19:00 UTC /
noon PT 
(http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=19&day=30&month=07&year=2012
).

It is an opportunity to ask all your analytics and statistics related
questions about Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects, in
particular regarding the Wikimedia Report Card and the upcoming
"Kraken" analytics platform. See also the blog post that the team just
published: https://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/07/25/meet-the-analytics-team/
, as well as https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Analytics

General information about IRC office hours is available at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours .

Regards,
--
Tilman Bayer
Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications)
Wikimedia Foundation
IRC (Freenode): HaeB

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Kim Bruning]

On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 09:48:50PM +0200, Svip wrote:
> Oh and here is a fun fact I have discovered over the years; reading
> large texts of a serif typeface is a lot easier than a sans-serif
> typeface.


See, I'm *not* crazy to think that! 

That's why I still use the classic skin, it's the only skin that
has serif fonts for body text. :-/

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Kim Bruning]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 09:04:46PM +0100, Thomas Morton wrote:
> 
> This all ties back to my view that we don't think of the average reader
> enough :)


What do we want the "average reader" to do? Who do we want them to be.
Do we want them to be an encyclopedia reader, a wiki editor,
or ... something in between? 

A novel thought that!

I think that every person who comes to take something away, also
has something to bring back in. 

Actually, that's pretty much certain, sooner or later.

An encyclopedia is a starting point for research. Once you're even
just halfway researching your topic, you probably know more than the
encyclopedia does.

This is how I sometimes contributed to wikipedia early on. [1]

Rather than giving up and calling people "the average reader", can
we think about how we can get them to give something back?

Sure, we probably can't get 100% of readers to give something back, but we
can definitely do better than the meager fraction-of-1% we have now. 

Our policies/procedures/work-patterns have swung a little too far
encyclopedia-ward. We need to get the pendulum swinging back
wiki-ward for a while.

sincerely,
Kim Bruning


[1] 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lost_functionalities#Using_wikipedia_as_an_.28anonymous.29_research_tool



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimania Scholarships process

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Jessie Wild, 26/07/2012 00:54:

Hello everyone!

We are in need of revamping the Wikimania Scholarships Process, and your
help is needed! Please participate in the discussion on meta[1]:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania/Scholarships


There's plenty of feedback also on 
, some 
of which could be used retroactively.


Nemo

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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimania Scholarships process

[Jessie Wild]

Hello everyone!

We are in need of revamping the Wikimania Scholarships Process, and your
help is needed! Please participate in the discussion on meta[1]:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania/Scholarships

Talk to you on meta -
Jessie


BACKGROUND:
Every year, the Wikimedia Foundation, Wikimedia Chapters, and outside
organizations sponsor the attendance of individuals to the international
Wikimania conference. In 2012, over 150 scholarships were awarded to
recipients from over 60 countries. These scholarship recipients were chosen
from 1,113 applications. Each recipient was selected primarily on the basis
of his/her participation in the Wikimedia projects and his/her future goals
for participating in the Wikimedia movement. The scholarship recipients
were chosen through a confidential application and selection process run by
the Wikimania Scholarship Review Committee. The committee was composed by
Wikimedia volunteers and one Wikimedia Foundation staff.[2]


[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania/Scholarships
[2] For more information on the 2012 scholarship process, see the April
blog post: http://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/04/25/wikimania-2012-scholarships/


-- 
*Jessie Wild
Global Development, Manager
Wikimedia Foundation*
*
*
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge.  Help us make it a reality!
Donate to Wikimedia 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Thomas Morton, 25/07/2012 22:04:

We also need to be understanding of the "99%" - the ones who just want to
read.

Our interface should suit the reader - with a prominent prompt to edit.
Which once clicked opens things up into the world of editing Wikipedia.

But if you don't click that prompt then you don't get useless fluff to
distract you.


What exactly is the fluff?
Even the most hidden toolbox links are crucial for reading articles and 
understanding them, for instance WhatLinksHere.
I'm more interested in things which try to get some of that "clutter" to 
be understood by and useful for readers, like the "last modified" 
experiment to increase history browsing (despite all the problems, of 
course).


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Michel Vuijlsteke]

On 25 July 2012 22:04, Thomas Morton  wrote:

> On 25 July 2012 21:01, David Gerard  wrote:
>
> > (This is why I'm so disappointed the mobile app doesn't do editing,
> > for example. Or, indeed, some way to take a photo and quickly add it
> > to an article.)
> >
> Yes.
>
> We also need to be understanding of the "99%" - the ones who just want to
> read.
>
> Our interface should suit the reader - with a prominent prompt to edit.
> Which once clicked opens things up into the world of editing Wikipedia.
>
> But if you don't click that prompt then you don't get useless fluff to
> distract you.
>
> This all ties back to my view that we don't think of the average reader
> enough :)
>

I totally agree.
With the one caveat that it's both tempting and dangerous to speak of or
design for "the average reader".

The average car driver, as the joke goes, wants a car that's fast and
flashy, and comfortable and safe, with a large trunk and room for kids,
that looks sexy, gets great mileage and does 0-90 in however few seconds is
impressive enough. And then you end up with The Homer (
http://imgur.com/PO22S) -- a car that should in theory be everything for
everyone, but in fact is nothing for no-one. :)

And that's why interaction designers develop personas and write scenarios
of use, do mock-ups and prototypes, etc. etc.

Michel
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Where is the WMF annual plan?

[Samuel Klein]

Thanks, Tilman.   That matches the timeline I understood, thanks to
Wikimania-related lag.  Sam.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Tilman Bayer  wrote:

> Hi Thomas,
>
> it is indeed already approved by the Board and will be published
> simultaneously with the usual accompanying Q&A very soon - expect it
> before the end of this week.
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Thomas Dalton 
> wrote:
> > Where is the WMF annual plan? My understanding was that it was
> > supposed to be published by the end of last week.
> >
> > ___
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> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
>
>
> --
> Tilman Bayer
> Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications)
> Wikimedia Foundation
> IRC (Freenode): HaeB
>
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4266
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Where is the WMF annual plan?

[Tilman Bayer]

Hi Thomas,

it is indeed already approved by the Board and will be published
simultaneously with the usual accompanying Q&A very soon - expect it
before the end of this week.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Thomas Dalton  wrote:
> Where is the WMF annual plan? My understanding was that it was
> supposed to be published by the end of last week.
>
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-- 
Tilman Bayer
Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications)
Wikimedia Foundation
IRC (Freenode): HaeB

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Andreas Kolbe]

David,

Here is a different approach. Ask the Foundation's paid programming staff
if there is ever so much for them to do that other things they know should
be done, or that other people have asked them to do, fall by the wayside;
or how often it happens that project dates slip and deadlines are not met
because they get called off their jobs to deal with something else. Things
like that.

If the programming staff (hello?) say there aren't any significant problems
of that sort, and that having their own staff that they could delegate
parts of their work to would not lead to more things getting done, but
would only result in them sitting around playing cards, I'll shut up about
this.

Andreas

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 8:56 PM, David Gerard  wrote:

> On 25 July 2012 20:48, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
>
> > So there were how many years of faffing about before they hired *one guy*
> > for this project? This is an organisation with a $20m annual budget, now
> > acquiring umpteen paid chapter officials.
> > Wikipedia is about as user-friendly as Wordstar was in 1985.
>
>
> Before you start in the usual fashion of "assume bad faith and
> extrapolate from there", I suggest you do a bit of reading
> (mediawiki.org, wikitech-l and *especially* wikitext-l) and find out
> what the actual problem was and why this is actually a hard problem.
> Here, I'll start you off:
>
> 1. No language definition.
> 2. Huge corpus of existing text in said undefined language that must
> continue to work.
>
> Now how about you stop ranting about how everyone must have just been
> terrible and come back with a description in your own words of the
> actual problem and what you expect would be a good plan of attack on
> it. Who knows, you might come up with something new, good and useful.
>
>
> - d.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Thomas Morton]

On 25 July 2012 21:01, David Gerard  wrote:

> On 25 July 2012 20:44, Thomas Morton  wrote:
>
> > One of the key problems with the interface is that it doesn't do a lot to
> > seperate editing and reading.
> > I know the point is to make editing easy - and to encourage readers to
> > become editors. But realistically most of them will not - and we could do
> > significantly better in streamlining our anon. front end.
>
>
> I would disagree. We need to make it easy for people to hit "edit",
> and we need to make it easy for them to be able to do something
> useful.
>
> (This is why I'm so disappointed the mobile app doesn't do editing,
> for example. Or, indeed, some way to take a photo and quickly add it
> to an article.)
>
>
Yes.

We also need to be understanding of the "99%" - the ones who just want to
read.

Our interface should suit the reader - with a prominent prompt to edit.
Which once clicked opens things up into the world of editing Wikipedia.

But if you don't click that prompt then you don't get useless fluff to
distract you.

This all ties back to my view that we don't think of the average reader
enough :)

Tom
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[David Gerard]

On 25 July 2012 20:44, Thomas Morton  wrote:

> One of the key problems with the interface is that it doesn't do a lot to
> seperate editing and reading.
> I know the point is to make editing easy - and to encourage readers to
> become editors. But realistically most of them will not - and we could do
> significantly better in streamlining our anon. front end.


I would disagree. We need to make it easy for people to hit "edit",
and we need to make it easy for them to be able to do something
useful.

(This is why I'm so disappointed the mobile app doesn't do editing,
for example. Or, indeed, some way to take a photo and quickly add it
to an article.)


- d.

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[Wikimedia-l] Where is the WMF annual plan?

[Thomas Dalton]

Where is the WMF annual plan? My understanding was that it was
supposed to be published by the end of last week.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Brandon Harris]

On Jul 25, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Thomas Morton wrote:

> One of the key problems with the interface is that it doesn't do a lot to
> seperate editing and reading.

This is actually something I am looking at with a powerful microscope.

There are actually three major activities, and they should be 
considered "modes of operation":

1) Reading/Exploring
2) Editing/Uploading
3) Curating/Patrolling

We'll be launching (very soon now, I promise) a "Curation Mode" for new 
page patrolling that starts us down this path.

---
Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[David Gerard]

On 25 July 2012 20:48, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:

> So there were how many years of faffing about before they hired *one guy*
> for this project? This is an organisation with a $20m annual budget, now
> acquiring umpteen paid chapter officials.
> Wikipedia is about as user-friendly as Wordstar was in 1985.


Before you start in the usual fashion of "assume bad faith and
extrapolate from there", I suggest you do a bit of reading
(mediawiki.org, wikitech-l and *especially* wikitext-l) and find out
what the actual problem was and why this is actually a hard problem.
Here, I'll start you off:

1. No language definition.
2. Huge corpus of existing text in said undefined language that must
continue to work.

Now how about you stop ranting about how everyone must have just been
terrible and come back with a description in your own words of the
actual problem and what you expect would be a good plan of attack on
it. Who knows, you might come up with something new, good and useful.


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Andreas Kolbe]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 4:45 PM, Deryck Chan wrote:

> On 17 July 2012 00:46, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
> >
> > > I honestly don't understand why it is taking so many years to develop a
> > > WYSIWYG editor, for example, or a new Commons search function.
> Honestly,
> > > people, if you want to create paid jobs, don't inflate the chapter
> > > structure, but employ and pay a few programmers and designers.
> >
> > On 25 July 2012 16:41, David Gerard  wrote:
> >
> > "I don't understand it, so it must be simple." This often turns out
> > not to be the case.
>



In the case of the sensible Commons search function Niabot proposed, the
problem did sound rather easy to solve.

>From memory, the answer was: "Everybody is busy with other stuff. Nobody
has time to look into this. We've got so much to do ..."




> > I realised both that it was an incredibly difficult problem, and that WMF
> is really serious about getting on with it, when they decided to hire James
> F. to take charge of the project.
>



So there were how many years of faffing about before they hired *one guy*
for this project? This is an organisation with a $20m annual budget, now
acquiring umpteen paid chapter officials.

Wikipedia is about as user-friendly as Wordstar was in 1985.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Thomas Morton]

One of the key problems with the interface is that it doesn't do a lot to
seperate editing and reading.

I know the point is to make editing easy - and to encourage readers to
become editors. But realistically most of them will not - and we could do
significantly better in streamlining our anon. front end.

Tom

On 25 July 2012 20:33, Gerard Meijssen  wrote:

> Hoi,
> Most people are stupid and they still deserve a great reading experience..
> Our aim is to share in the sum of all knowledge with everyone. When people
> fail to read Wikipedia.. and they do..  there is a reason to do better for
> them. Any effective measure that provides a better experience for all the
> different screens helps us share with more people.
>
> Even stupid people deserve to be educated... eh especially stupid people
> deserve to be educated ...
> Thanks,
>   Gerard
>
> On 25 July 2012 17:22, Michel Vuijlsteke  wrote:
>
> > On 25 July 2012 15:57, Kim Bruning  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > That's default web behaviour. If you want narrower columns, just make
> the
> > > browser window narrower.
> > >
> > > * If your answer is "Some people don't know how to use a browser"...
> > > well...
> > >   ARGH
> > >
> >
> > Most people never resize their browser windows.
> > If your answer is "Most people are stupid and don't *deserve* a better
> > reading experience"… well, sum, yeah. There's that.
> >
> >
> > > * Else If your answer is "Lets make it narrower for everyone (including
> > us
> > > WIMPs
> > >   who *do* know how to use Windows Icons Menus and Pointers) whether
> they
> > >   want to or not."   I KL YOU
> > >
> >
> > It's not about making it "narrower". It's about making it *better*.
> > Analogy: "Let's reduce the amount of words in the lede" <> "Let's make
> the
> > lede better".
> >
> >
> > > * Else If your answer is "better DTPishlayout control in CSS, including
> > > some sane way to
> > >   do proper columnated text": YES YES, 1000 TIMES YES!
> > >
> >
> > Column layout on scrolling web pages doesn't make a lot of sense.
> > Some additional "DTP-ish" layout control in CSS would be nice, sure, but
> > that's not the point.
> >
> >
> > > * Else If other: Ok, go ahead, I'm listening? :-)
> > >
> >
> > Well, see points raised earlier. Making Wikipedia easier to read and use
> is
> > not just mollycoddling lazy users who "should know better".
> >
> > Michel
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
Most people are stupid and they still deserve a great reading experience..
Our aim is to share in the sum of all knowledge with everyone. When people
fail to read Wikipedia.. and they do..  there is a reason to do better for
them. Any effective measure that provides a better experience for all the
different screens helps us share with more people.

Even stupid people deserve to be educated... eh especially stupid people
deserve to be educated ...
Thanks,
  Gerard

On 25 July 2012 17:22, Michel Vuijlsteke  wrote:

> On 25 July 2012 15:57, Kim Bruning  wrote:
>
> >
> > That's default web behaviour. If you want narrower columns, just make the
> > browser window narrower.
> >
> > * If your answer is "Some people don't know how to use a browser"...
> > well...
> >   ARGH
> >
>
> Most people never resize their browser windows.
> If your answer is "Most people are stupid and don't *deserve* a better
> reading experience"… well, sum, yeah. There's that.
>
>
> > * Else If your answer is "Lets make it narrower for everyone (including
> us
> > WIMPs
> >   who *do* know how to use Windows Icons Menus and Pointers) whether they
> >   want to or not."   I KL YOU
> >
>
> It's not about making it "narrower". It's about making it *better*.
> Analogy: "Let's reduce the amount of words in the lede" <> "Let's make the
> lede better".
>
>
> > * Else If your answer is "better DTPishlayout control in CSS, including
> > some sane way to
> >   do proper columnated text": YES YES, 1000 TIMES YES!
> >
>
> Column layout on scrolling web pages doesn't make a lot of sense.
> Some additional "DTP-ish" layout control in CSS would be nice, sure, but
> that's not the point.
>
>
> > * Else If other: Ok, go ahead, I'm listening? :-)
> >
>
> Well, see points raised earlier. Making Wikipedia easier to read and use is
> not just mollycoddling lazy users who "should know better".
>
> Michel
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Ratiopol

[bretwa]

Hello Nathan,

Thanks for having looked at my proposal. Of course I think too that
this project won't be affiliate to the fundation. I have already talk
about this with Anthere. But I think it's important to do this step,
one
day maybe things will evolve, so no matter if the affiliation is not a
sucess by now.

Regards,
Bretwa


On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 16:58:03 -0400, Nathan  wrote:
> The project is empty. It's recent changes feed shows no edits (not sure how
> that is even possible). All the links on the front page are redlinks. The
> point of the project is stated as influencing the decisions of politicians.
> 
> I suspect few will dispute the conclusion that Ratiopol is not ripe for any
> sort of affiliation.
> 
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:45 PM,  wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>> For your information, I have made a proposal for a project to be adopted
>> by the Wikimedia Fundation. It is called Ratiopol, and it's about politics,
>> if you want more informations, you can go here :
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Ratiopol
>> Feel free to contact me.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bretwa
>>
>>
>> __**_
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Svip, 14/07/2012 16:04:

I love it when people who have no idea what they are talking about,  [...]


I love it when someone starts a thread like this, because we always talk 
about how horrible our wikis are and we end up with yet another shiny 
Magnus tool which proves how amazing and open they and their community are.


Back to the article, its value is shown by puzzling truisms like this: 
«Facebook -- and Twitter, and Tumblr, and similar sites -- have built 
followings in part because of their exceedingly simple interfaces. They 
are intuitive and, thus, inviting».
Twitter is well known for being one of the websites with the most 
horrible interface ever, whose success relied on third party's apps – no 
need to comment.
Facebook has been proved to be used more by necessity and habit than by 
appreciation, because it has a very low (and decreasing) user 
satisfaction but almost a monopoly (so far): 
.
And frankly, user-friendly? I need more manuals etc. reading for 
Facebook than for our wikis, and I don't even use it.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Deryck Chan]

On 17 July 2012 00:46, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
>
> > I honestly don't understand why it is taking so many years to develop a
> > WYSIWYG editor, for example, or a new Commons search function. Honestly,
> > people, if you want to create paid jobs, don't inflate the chapter
> > structure, but employ and pay a few programmers and designers.
>
> On 25 July 2012 16:41, David Gerard  wrote:
>
> "I don't understand it, so it must be simple." This often turns out
> not to be the case.
>
> I realised both that it was an incredibly difficult problem, and that WMF
is really serious about getting on with it, when they decided to hire James
F. to take charge of the project.

Deryck
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[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Subject: IRC office hours to discuss FDC eligibility criteria and next steps

[Philippe Beaudette]

Reminder that this meeting begins in 15 minutes.
___
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Director, Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

415-839-6885, x 6643

phili...@wikimedia.org



-- Forwarded message --
From: Garfield Byrd 
Date: Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 8:58 PM
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Subject: IRC office hours to discuss FDC eligibility
criteria and next steps
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List 


Dear Wikimedia Community,

As you may have seen, last week the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
passed a resolution to establish the Funds Dissemination Committee (FDC)
[1].
Full details about the planned structure and processes of the FDC can be
found in the framework proposed to the Board [2]. This framework was
developed over the past few months with input from a variety of people
across the movement.

We will be holding two sets of *IRC office hours* on *Wednesday 25 July*,
to answer any questions community members may have about the FDC process;
in particular the first step of establishing the eligibility to apply to
the FDC. Office hours will be held:

· 16:00-17:00 UTC/09:00 PDT Wednesday, July 25th

· 23:00-23:59 UTC/16:00 PDT Wednesday, July 25th

On *Monday 23 July 2012*, the Foundation will publish a list of eligible
entities based on the eligibility criteria established in the framework [3].
Please let me know if you believe there are any corrections to be made to
this list. Entities who are interested in applying for funds through the
FDC but are ineligible due to compliance issues should work with the
Foundation to develop a plan to correct compliance issues.

Entities who are ineligible for other reasons - or who would prefer not to
go through the FDC process in this round -may seek funding through the
Wikimedia Foundation Grants Program.

I will be sending out a more detailed email on Monday to inform you of this
list and next steps in the process. I look forward to speaking with you on
Wednesday.


Sincerely,

Garfield Byrd

(WMF Chief of Finance and Administration)



[1]
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Funds_Dissemination_Committee_framework_and_initial_operation

[2]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Draft_FDC_Proposal_for_the_Board

[3]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/Sample_letter_of_intent_and_eligibility_checklist


--
Garfield Byrd
Chief of Finance and Administration
Wikimedia Foundation
415.839.6885 ext 6787
415.882.0495 (fax)
www.wikimediafoundation.org

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!

*https://donate.wikimedia.org*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[David Gerard]

On 17 July 2012 00:46, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:

> I honestly don't understand why it is taking so many years to develop a
> WYSIWYG editor, for example, or a new Commons search function. Honestly,
> people, if you want to create paid jobs, don't inflate the chapter
> structure, but employ and pay a few programmers and designers.


"I don't understand it, so it must be simple." This often turns out
not to be the case.


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Deryck Chan]

I think the clear moral of this story is that, as accommodating and
reader-friendly you can be, you just can't make everyone happy.

We should listen to all opinions and suggestions, but expect to decide most
of the time that the suggestions are simply dumb or unhelpful.

On 25 July 2012 16:22, Michel Vuijlsteke  wrote:

> On 25 July 2012 15:57, Kim Bruning  wrote:
>
> >
> > That's default web behaviour. If you want narrower columns, just make the
> > browser window narrower.
> >
> > * If your answer is "Some people don't know how to use a browser"...
> > well...
> >   ARGH
> >
>
> Most people never resize their browser windows.
> If your answer is "Most people are stupid and don't *deserve* a better
> reading experience"… well, sum, yeah. There's that.
>
>
> > * Else If your answer is "Lets make it narrower for everyone (including
> us
> > WIMPs
> >   who *do* know how to use Windows Icons Menus and Pointers) whether they
> >   want to or not."   I KL YOU
> >
>
> It's not about making it "narrower". It's about making it *better*.
> Analogy: "Let's reduce the amount of words in the lede" <> "Let's make the
> lede better".
>
>
> > * Else If your answer is "better DTPishlayout control in CSS, including
> > some sane way to
> >   do proper columnated text": YES YES, 1000 TIMES YES!
> >
>
> Column layout on scrolling web pages doesn't make a lot of sense.
> Some additional "DTP-ish" layout control in CSS would be nice, sure, but
> that's not the point.
>
>
> > * Else If other: Ok, go ahead, I'm listening? :-)
> >
>
> Well, see points raised earlier. Making Wikipedia easier to read and use is
> not just mollycoddling lazy users who "should know better".
>
> Michel
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Michel Vuijlsteke]

On 25 July 2012 15:57, Kim Bruning  wrote:

>
> That's default web behaviour. If you want narrower columns, just make the
> browser window narrower.
>
> * If your answer is "Some people don't know how to use a browser"...
> well...
>   ARGH
>

Most people never resize their browser windows.
If your answer is "Most people are stupid and don't *deserve* a better
reading experience"… well, sum, yeah. There's that.


> * Else If your answer is "Lets make it narrower for everyone (including us
> WIMPs
>   who *do* know how to use Windows Icons Menus and Pointers) whether they
>   want to or not."   I KL YOU
>

It's not about making it "narrower". It's about making it *better*.
Analogy: "Let's reduce the amount of words in the lede" <> "Let's make the
lede better".


> * Else If your answer is "better DTPishlayout control in CSS, including
> some sane way to
>   do proper columnated text": YES YES, 1000 TIMES YES!
>

Column layout on scrolling web pages doesn't make a lot of sense.
Some additional "DTP-ish" layout control in CSS would be nice, sure, but
that's not the point.


> * Else If other: Ok, go ahead, I'm listening? :-)
>

Well, see points raised earlier. Making Wikipedia easier to read and use is
not just mollycoddling lazy users who "should know better".

Michel
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board appointments July 2012

[Alice Wiegand]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Arne Klempert  wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Bence Damokos  wrote:

>> I am sure Bishakha will give a more thorough answer if I am mistaken, but
>> from what I heard from Board members when I asked the same question: the
>> new board members fully participated in the meeting on the 11 July, but for
>> technical reasons and simplicity's sake, they only assumed the positions of
>> the outgoing board members at the very end of the meeting.
>
> That's correct. The transition took place at the end of the meeting on
> July 11th. We didn't want to leave a legacy of too much unfinished
> business (some resolutions had a history that started long before the
> new board members were selected), while allowing Alice and Patricio to
> get used to their new roles.

And it was organized in this manner with our full agreement. We were
involved in every discussion which made it very easy to feel like an
equivalent part of this body quite fast.

Alice.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apparently, Wikipedia is ugly

[Kim Bruning]

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 09:11:57AM +0200, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Hoi,
> It was not a small laptop screen, the screen was big enough...
> 
> I blogged about it and included screenshots.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
> 
> http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2012/07/can-everybody-read-wikipedia.html


That's default web behaviour. If you want narrower columns, just make the
browser window narrower.

* If your answer is "Some people don't know how to use a browser"... well...
  ARGH
* Else If your answer is "Lets make it narrower for everyone (including us 
WIMPs 
  who *do* know how to use Windows Icons Menus and Pointers) whether they
  want to or not."   I KL YOU
* Else If your answer is "better DTPishlayout control in CSS, including some 
sane way to
  do proper columnated text": YES YES, 1000 TIMES YES!
* Else If other: Ok, go ahead, I'm listening? :-)

sincerely,
Kim Bruning

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board appointments July 2012

[Arne Klempert]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Bence Damokos  wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:
>> If they got confirmed at July 11, (from the resolution: "*This written
>> Resolution will be effective as of July 11, 2012*") why are Phoebe and Arne
>> voting in all other resolutions passed at the day??
>
> I am sure Bishakha will give a more thorough answer if I am mistaken, but
> from what I heard from Board members when I asked the same question: the
> new board members fully participated in the meeting on the 11 July, but for
> technical reasons and simplicity's sake, they only assumed the positions of
> the outgoing board members at the very end of the meeting.

That's correct. The transition took place at the end of the meeting on
July 11th. We didn't want to leave a legacy of too much unfinished
business (some resolutions had a history that started long before the
new board members were selected), while allowing Alice and Patricio to
get used to their new roles.

Arne
-- 
Arne Klempert, http://www.klempert.de/
This gmail address is for mailing lists only. Please
use @gmail.com for personal emails.

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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Chapters Association: Standing Orders, a new proposal

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

In accordance with the Chair, I have published a new proposal for
standing orders of the WCA Council. More explanations here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Standing_Orders

Kind regards
Ziko

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Geolocalization improvement proposal

[Cristian Consonni]

2012/7/25 aude :
> There also are infoboxes and categories that people use to indicate where
> they live.

I think this solutions has the same drawbacks of using an opt-in gadget.

> It could also be a preference, to make it private info.  (and would be nice
> to get geonotices for "home" even while I am traveling, or if I use a proxy
> or something)

I think instead this could work better than the previous because on
the first access one can review its preferences.

I also think there should be an optiont to say "please do not bother
me with geotargeted messages" i.e. an opt-out option.

Cristian

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Geolocalization improvement proposal

[aude]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Cristian Consonni
wrote:

> 2012/7/24  :
> > On Jul 24, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Cristian Consonni 
> wrote:
> >
> >> 2012/7/24  :
> >>> [...] So I definitely believe what it.WM wants to do, to connect
> people with local events, has real value. And that it has value for the
> individual people just as much as for it.WM.
> >>
> >> strong +1.
> >>
> >>> The main question is whether the benefit from being able to connect
> people with local events is worth the risk of collecting more personalized
> of their data than we are accustomed to handling.
> >>
> >> I could be wrong but I don't think we would "handle more data" than
> >> what we are doing now. We are not going to use that data and as far as
> >> I know that data "dies" in the moment the system has output the
> >> message.
> >
> > Maybe this is the area that needs more study. And I am probably the
> wrong person to try and even formulate technical questions, but is there a
> way to make use of this data without storing it? Without even knowing who
> recieved what personalized messages, unless, of course,they choose to
> respond?
>
> I will forward these questions to wikitech-l.
>
> > There is still the "creep" factor, in that readers of the messages will
> not necessarily know that it was all handled blindly. However it should
> technically preserve the reader's privacy, if no person nor computer can
> recall what messages any person was presented with. And if an FAQ is
> well-linked, anyone who under the misperception that it was handled
> invasively can learn how serious we are about the subject.
>
> A FAQ page would be useful, then I think we could decide that, for example:
> * the geonotice can be centered only on big cities (e.g. "Chef-lieus")
> * Messages should not make use of the geolocalization information
> itself, but only static test (i.e. NO "Hey you living in X, there a
> meetup in Milan" -  YES for "There's meetup in Milan")
>
> > If such a thing is even possible I suppoose it becomes a sort of
> philosophical question. If no one nor computer can know whether or not you
> recieved a personally targeted message is the targeting invasive of your
> privacy?
>
> yes, that's pretty much my point, I think nobody is interested to know
> if somebody has seen a geotarget message or not, my point is about
> making people from Milan (north of Italy) know that there is a local
> meetup without bothering people from Rome (center) or Palermo (south
> of Italy). (please note that with the current system we were not even
> able to accurately distinguish betwen macro-regions as
> north/center/south Italy)
>
>
There also are infoboxes and categories that people use to indicate where
they live.

It could also be a preference, to make it private info.  (and would be nice
to get geonotices for "home" even while I am traveling, or if I use a proxy
or something)

Cheers,
Katie




> Cristian
>
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-- 
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http://wikimediadc.org
@wikimediadc / @wikimania2012
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Geolocalization improvement proposal

[Cristian Consonni]

2012/7/24  :
> On Jul 24, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Cristian Consonni  
> wrote:
>
>> 2012/7/24  :
>>> [...] So I definitely believe what it.WM wants to do, to connect people 
>>> with local events, has real value. And that it has value for the individual 
>>> people just as much as for it.WM.
>>
>> strong +1.
>>
>>> The main question is whether the benefit from being able to connect people 
>>> with local events is worth the risk of collecting more personalized of 
>>> their data than we are accustomed to handling.
>>
>> I could be wrong but I don't think we would "handle more data" than
>> what we are doing now. We are not going to use that data and as far as
>> I know that data "dies" in the moment the system has output the
>> message.
>
> Maybe this is the area that needs more study. And I am probably the wrong 
> person to try and even formulate technical questions, but is there a way to 
> make use of this data without storing it? Without even knowing who recieved 
> what personalized messages, unless, of course,they choose to respond?

I will forward these questions to wikitech-l.

> There is still the "creep" factor, in that readers of the messages will not 
> necessarily know that it was all handled blindly. However it should 
> technically preserve the reader's privacy, if no person nor computer can 
> recall what messages any person was presented with. And if an FAQ is 
> well-linked, anyone who under the misperception that it was handled 
> invasively can learn how serious we are about the subject.

A FAQ page would be useful, then I think we could decide that, for example:
* the geonotice can be centered only on big cities (e.g. "Chef-lieus")
* Messages should not make use of the geolocalization information
itself, but only static test (i.e. NO "Hey you living in X, there a
meetup in Milan" -  YES for "There's meetup in Milan")

> If such a thing is even possible I suppoose it becomes a sort of 
> philosophical question. If no one nor computer can know whether or not you 
> recieved a personally targeted message is the targeting invasive of your 
> privacy?

yes, that's pretty much my point, I think nobody is interested to know
if somebody has seen a geotarget message or not, my point is about
making people from Milan (north of Italy) know that there is a local
meetup without bothering people from Rome (center) or Palermo (south
of Italy). (please note that with the current system we were not even
able to accurately distinguish betwen macro-regions as
north/center/south Italy)

Cristian

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board appointments July 2012

[Bence Damokos]

Hi Beria,

I am sure Bishakha will give a more thorough answer if I am mistaken, but
from what I heard from Board members when I asked the same question: the
new board members fully participated in the meeting on the 11 July, but for
technical reasons and simplicity's sake, they only assumed the positions of
the outgoing board members at the very end of the meeting.
The image hiding resolution was first taken on 11 July, if you check the
history or the talk page, you will see, that Jimmy changed his vote a few
days later, hence the new date.

Best regards,
Bence

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 3:50 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:

> If they got confirmed at July 11, (from the resolution: "*This written
> Resolution will be effective as of July 11, 2012*") why are Phoebe and Arne
> voting in all other resolutions passed at the day??
>
> And why they vote on this one:
>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Personal_Image_Hiding_Featurefrom
> July
> *16*?
> _
> *Béria Lima*
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
> construir esse sonho. *
>
>
> On 25 July 2012 03:12, Bishakha Datta  wrote:
>
> > Greetings, all.
> >
> > And apologies. This resolution approving the Wikimedia Chapters'
> selections
> > to the Board of Trustees was unanimously approved, in-person, on July 11,
> > 2012.
> >
> > It took much longer to publish than it should have due to a procedural
> > issue.
> >
> > It has finally been published at:
> >
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_appointments_July_2012
> >
> > Best
> > Bishakha
> > ___
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> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board appointments July 2012

[Deryck Chan]

See
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Talk:Resolution:Personal_image_hiding_feature

Votes were initially cast on 11 July with Phoebe and Arne still on the
board. Then Jimmy changed his vote on 16 July.

On 25 July 2012 14:50, Béria Lima  wrote:

> If they got confirmed at July 11, (from the resolution: "*This written
> Resolution will be effective as of July 11, 2012*") why are Phoebe and Arne
> voting in all other resolutions passed at the day??
>
> And why they vote on this one:
>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Personal_Image_Hiding_Featurefrom
> July
> *16*?
> _
> *Béria Lima*
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
> construir esse sonho. *
>
>
> On 25 July 2012 03:12, Bishakha Datta  wrote:
>
> > Greetings, all.
> >
> > And apologies. This resolution approving the Wikimedia Chapters'
> selections
> > to the Board of Trustees was unanimously approved, in-person, on July 11,
> > 2012.
> >
> > It took much longer to publish than it should have due to a procedural
> > issue.
> >
> > It has finally been published at:
> >
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_appointments_July_2012
> >
> > Best
> > Bishakha
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board appointments July 2012

[Béria Lima]

If they got confirmed at July 11, (from the resolution: "*This written
Resolution will be effective as of July 11, 2012*") why are Phoebe and Arne
voting in all other resolutions passed at the day??

And why they vote on this one:
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Personal_Image_Hiding_Featurefrom
July
*16*?
_
*Béria Lima*

*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
construir esse sonho. *


On 25 July 2012 03:12, Bishakha Datta  wrote:

> Greetings, all.
>
> And apologies. This resolution approving the Wikimedia Chapters' selections
> to the Board of Trustees was unanimously approved, in-person, on July 11,
> 2012.
>
> It took much longer to publish than it should have due to a procedural
> issue.
>
> It has finally been published at:
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_appointments_July_2012
>
> Best
> Bishakha
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] FDC Eligibility Status

[Florence Devouard]

Just checking

The meta page
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Funds_Dissemination_Committee/2012_Round_1_Eligibility_Status

outlines that amongst the obligations is the fact of providing financial 
reports in English


   "What we have considered as 'financial reports' : financial reports
   in English (per the Chapter Agreement) that offer complete details
   of an entity’s revenue and expenditure over the course of its fiscal
   year."


And er yeah. I'd like to ask what is the level of requirement 
with regards to what is called "Financial reporting" and what do you 
exactly expect.


Because when we signed the agreement, back in 2005 Financial 
Reporting was something quite basic (a paragraph or so in our annual 
report and a bunch of figures).


Last year, this page was set up
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Financial_reports
for reporting. But as discussed during the financial meeting, rather 
fail to meet a common ground as not all financial systems work the same.


Fundraising Agreement on the other hand does mention Financial 
reporting. But it absolutely does not mention that these should be in 
English.

The exact wording of the FA is

   Providing a copy of accurate and complete audited financial
   statements and the auditor’s letter to management, compiled by the
   auditor appointed by the board of the Chapter, for the 2011 fiscal
   year, by September 1, 2012 and on the same schedule for any Renewal
   Periods.


But I already feel sick in the stomach at the idea of translating 
our complete Financial Reports.
See for example our financial report here: 
http://www.wikimedia.fr/sites/default/files/Comptes%202011%20certifiés.pdf

It certainly does it great to understand better a financial situation.

But we probably need an in-between report systems :)

This was discussed during the Financial meeting, but I am not quite sure 
what is the outcome of the work done afterwards on the matter (something 
such as a common reporting document where we would add figures as much 
as we can).


What's the status on this ?

Florence




On 7/24/12 7:04 PM, Melanie Brown wrote:


Dear Wikimedia Community,

As you may know, the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees passed
a resolution two weeks ago, to establish the Funds Dissemination
Committee (FDC) [1]. Full details about the planned structure and
processes of the FDC can be found in the framework proposed to the
Board [2].  This framework was developed over the past few months
with input from a variety of people across the movement.

It is now time to set this plan in motion.  There are a couple of
next steps we want you to be aware of:
1. Establishing the first Funds Dissemination Committee:If you are
interested in nominating yourself to serve either as an FDC member
or as the FDC Ombudsperson, please submit your nomination by
August 15th. The Board will appoint the first members by the
beginning of September [3].

2.Identifying eligible entities: Today, the Foundation has
published a list of eligible entities [4]based on the eligibility
criteria established in the framework [5]. Please let us know if
you believe there are any corrections to be made to this list.
Entities are categorised into ‘Yes’, ‘Yes, If’ and ‘No’ categories
based on the eligibility criteria. Entities who are interested in
applying for funds through the FDC but are ineligible due to
compliance issues (i.e. those who fall into the ‘Yes, If’ category
detailed in the list above) should work with the Foundation to
develop a plan to correct compliance issues.

Entities who are ineligible for other reasons - or who would
prefer not to go through the FDC process in this round - may seek
funding through the Wikimedia Foundation Grants Program[6].

3.Beginning the applications process for the first round of
funding:The first round of applications for funding will be due
October 1st. FDCproposal formswill be posted on the FDC portal(a
hub for FDC related information that is currently being set up) on
Meta by August 1st. We strongly encourage eligible entities to
begin filling out the proposals to the FDC well in advance of the
October 1st deadline, particularly to support time for
translation, if necessary, and to answer any questions or
clarifications.

I would appreciate entities who are interested in applying for the
upcoming round of funding, emailing me as soon as possible stating
your interest. In addition, do let me know if you have any
questions, clarifications or concerns about meeting the
eligibility gap. This will help us best support you.

Additionally, as I mentioned in my message on Friday, we will be
holding two sets of IRC office hours on Wednesday 25 July. I will
be present, with Barry, Anasuya (our new Director of Global
Learning and Grantmaking) and Asaf, to answer any questio

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Spam] Re: photography restrictions at the Olympics

[Andrew Gray]

On 25 July 2012 10:29, Thomas Souza-Buckup  wrote:
> Lodewijk
>
> I agree with you. It makes a lot of sense to start now a negotiation with
> the IOC in order to prepare for the next Olympic Games taking place in
> Brazil in 2016. It may take a long time for us to see the first results and
> thereafter we should start asap a "more thorough long term lobby on this
> issue". Who else would like to join this task force?

Brazil is, of course, a very good situation to be looking at - Agencia
Brasil defaults to using CC-BY for much of its web content, and this
may be a good position to work from.

http://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/

"Todo o conteúdo deste site está publicado sob a Licença Creative
Commons Atribuição 3.0 Brasil."

Even if we cannot practically get anything in place for 2016 for
"outside" free content people, if ABr are able to release material in
2016 and the sky doesn't fall in, we're in a good position for
2018/2020...

-- 
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics

[Amir E. Aharoni]

2012/7/25 Thomas Souza-Buckup :
> Lodewijk
>
> I agree with you. It makes a lot of sense to start now a negotiation with
> the IOC in order to prepare for the next Olympic Games taking place in
> Brazil in 2016.

The winter games in Sochi 2014 are supposed to be quite interesting, too.

> It may take a long time for us to see the first results and
> thereafter we should start asap a "more thorough long term lobby on this
> issue". Who else would like to join this task force?

Myself, because I care about free culture. (And for the sake of
fairness, since I started the thread :) )

But more people are needed - particularly people who know something
about sports, about commercial media and about lobbying.

--
Amir

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] photography restrictions at the Olympics

[Thomas Souza-Buckup]

Lodewijk

I agree with you. It makes a lot of sense to start now a negotiation with
the IOC in order to prepare for the next Olympic Games taking place in
Brazil in 2016. It may take a long time for us to see the first results and
thereafter we should start asap a "more thorough long term lobby on this
issue". Who else would like to join this task force?

Thomas
TSB



On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Lodewijk wrote:

> Would it make sense to start a more thorough long term lobby on this issue?
> Considering that this will be a returning issue every two years, I guess
> that would be worth the trouble...
>
> Lodewijk
>
> 2012/7/24 Tomasz Ganicz 
>
> > 2012/7/24 Cristian Consonni :
> > > 2012/7/24 Amir E. Aharoni :
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> The Olympic games are beginning soon. Apparently, ticket holders
> > >> cannot use photo equipment longer than 30cm and cannot use the photos
> > >> and videos for commercial purposes without accreditation.
> > >>
> > >> Practically everything that happens at the Olympics is notable and
> > >> should be on Wikipedia, Commons, etc. Does anybody know whether there
> > >> are professional accredited photographers who are Wikimedia-friendly
> > >> and plan to upload their photos? If there aren't any, does anybody
> > >> know whether a Wikipedian can obtain such accreditation?
> > >>
> > >> This doesn't concern me directly, but there are many, many people who
> > >> write Wikipedia articles about sports in all languages and it may be
> > >> interesting to them. Also, it may be a frequent issue in sports and
> > >> I'm just not aware of it because I rarely follow sports.
> > >>
> > >> Sources for the restrictions:
> > >> * http://www.tickets.london2012.com/purchaseterms.html
> > >> * PDF: http://j.mp/london2012prohibited
> > >
> > > I think this another layer of problems besides copyright, with
> > > CC-BY-SA the author grants permission to reuse the photo also for
> > > commercial purposes without requesting permission to the author. But
> > > there are many other layers of rights which could interfere with the
> > > free (or better the "anarchic") reuse of a photo. For example I think
> > > that using an image of Usain Bolt to promote a book without explicit
> > > permission from the athlete (or his agent) is anyhow unlawful even if
> > > the photo was taken, for example, in the street and freely licensed.
> > > That said I think with can treat photo from the Olympics in a similar
> > > way as we do for photos with "personality rights", we could put a
> > > template saying "Olympics photo warning: to reuse for commercial
> > > purposes this photo you should obtain permission from IOC and/or
> > > individuals depicted in the photo".
> > > The point is that the author of the photo allows for it the widest
> > > possible reuse permitted by CC-BY-SA, thus sharing part of its
> > > copyright with others,  but if one wants to use the photo for
> > > commercial purposes that he should go (himself, not the author)
> > > through the hassle of obtaining permission from the relevant subjects.
> > >
> > > Could it work?
> > >
> >
> > No. CC-BY-SA clearly allows for commercial use of works, and there is
> > also clause that the licence cannot be accompanied by extra
> > restrictions which are not compatible with the licence.  However,
> > CC-BY-SA is only copyrights licence, so all other legal restrictionz
> > are still in power. For example: using someone's face in big-scale
> > commercial or political campaign may be treated as a infringement of
> > personal rights, even if the face is taken from CC-BY-SA picture...
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
> >
> > ___
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> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Protest against ACTA/Mexico in Spanish Wikinews

[Ray Saintonge]

On 07/24/12 4:32 PM, Juergen Fenn wrote:

FYI: Spanish Wikinews today bears a site notice in protest against the
Mexican government signing the ACTA agreement. It says: The internet
must remain free. The Freedom of the internet is in peril."

The Spanish Wikinews community has issued a press release on the matter:

https://es.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinoticias:Comunicado_de_prensa_acerca_de_la_firma_de_ACTA_en_México

I think we should express our solidarity with Spanish Wikinews editors.

The signing of ACTA is seen as a precondition for Mexico's participation 
in the TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership).  This was despite warnings from 
the Mexican Senate that it should be studied before being signed. The 
Senate still has to ratify it before it is passed, and that is probably 
where the Mexican battle needs to be waged.


Ray

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