[Wikimedia-l] Re: Affiliations Committee Call for Candidates - June 2021

2021-05-17 Thread Peter Southwood
Is all this stuff somewhere on Meta? From: Isaac Olatunde [mailto:reachout2is...@gmail.com] Sent: 17 May 2021 01:07 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Affiliations Committee Call for Candidates - June 2021 To add to Risker's question, which subcommittee is responsible

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board Ratification of Universal Code of Conduct

2021-02-20 Thread Peter Southwood
In what way would this clarify anything? Common sense is not so common, and sometimes is not even rational. Reasonable person at least provides some conditions for testing, though is also clearly not very useful in a multicultural environment. Cheers, Peter From: Wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moving the technical infrastructure out of the US

2020-10-01 Thread Peter Southwood
If things are as bad as that then there should be and might already be an offshore backup, possibly more than one, as it is a no-brainer, and I don’t think WMF tech management and the board are stupid, and nor are those who would wish to prevent it from happening. But plausible deniability.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [feedback requested] Taxonomy of knowledge gaps

2020-09-26 Thread Peter Southwood
Good points. Are these maybe covered in a future stage of the project? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Samuel Klein Sent: 26 September 2020 19:26 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l]

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-13 Thread Peter Southwood
Unfortunately I think all these points are valid. These behavious do not improve communication for many of us. There seems to be a choice between freedom of expression and effective communication in a multicultural group. There is theoretically the option of asking for clarification, but it is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Foundation and affiliates disclosing salaries on job ads & the effect of this on workplace equity

2020-09-12 Thread Peter Southwood
This is the point I was working on. I also have no confident answer to this problem, but have a gut feel it is somewhere in between the extremes. There is also the point that most people have some choice in where they live, though I do not have any useful suggestion of how that should be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Foundation and affiliates disclosing salaries on job ads & the effect of this on workplace equity

2020-09-11 Thread Peter Southwood
tter? When measuring internal equity, do we measure based on how expensive of a lifestyle each employee leads? On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 7:46 AM Peter Southwood wrote: > Should they? Their cost of living expenses may vary considerably. > Cheers, > Peter > > -Original Message-

Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review

2020-09-11 Thread Peter Southwood
There was no clear statement of "this is the problematic text and this is why it is considered unacceptable", which is a thing that I consider a reasonable expectation, as it is possible to learn from it, understand it, pass constructive criticism or agreement, and use as it a precedent for

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Foundation and affiliates disclosing salaries on job ads & the effect of this on workplace equity

2020-09-11 Thread Peter Southwood
Should they? Their cost of living expenses may vary considerably. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Sent: 11 September 2020 13:39 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Foundation and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review

2020-09-11 Thread Peter Southwood
I would call this fair comment, and parallels can be drawn between how the UCoC may be used and the current discussion. Without clear statement on why a decision is made it cannot be properly understood, accepted or improved, and we end up in the usual spiral of speculation, accusation and bad

Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review

2020-09-11 Thread Peter Southwood
he broader audience. Happily, this is something more than 99 percent of subscribers manage to do without effort. As I have repeatedly clarified, respectful discourse absolutely does not preclude criticism. Indeed, it is liable to make the criticism more likely to be heard. A. On Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 1

Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review

2020-09-11 Thread Peter Southwood
Is there somewhere we can refer to the list of offensive and unacceptable expressions, and how they are determined? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Anders Wennersten Sent: 11 September 2020 10:33 To:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review

2020-09-11 Thread Peter Southwood
It is not yet clear that the use of the words "fart" or "flatulence" are the actual issue. Context matters, but we do not know the full context yet, as the reasons have not been explained, leaving us with little option but to speculate. We are experiencing a failure of communication as much, or

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board of Wikimedia Chile / Nuevo directorio de Wikimedia Chile

2020-09-11 Thread Peter Southwood
Good luck to all of you P -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Rocío Consales Sent: 10 September 2020 20:39 To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikimedia-l] New board of Wikimedia Chile / Nuevo directorio de

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-11 Thread Peter Southwood
18:19 Uhr schrieb Peter Southwood < peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>: > Is the objection to the words he used or to the way he used them? > Cheers, > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
Is the objection to the words he used or to the way he used them? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Asaf Bartov Sent: 09 September 2020 21:57 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
For a UVoC to be helpful, it would have to be sufficiently clear about what is unacceptable, and why it is unacceptable, and would itself have to be sufficiently clear and acceptable to be seen as fair by the communities who would be bound by it. This is not easy to do, and the talk page

Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
Anders, I think you are referring to jargon. I agree that it should be avoided in the interests of clarity and ease of reliable translation. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Anders Wennersten Sent: 10

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
the opportunity to be a list administrator :D On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 19:41, Peter Southwood wrote: > Good judgement is often such a subjective thing, Everyone thinks they have > it. A bit like the Dunning-Kruger effect. > Cheers, > Peter > > -Original Message- &

Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
Are those things not already covered by the terms of use? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Amir Sarabadani Sent: 10 September 2020 13:22 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
misconduct, need not apply. A. On Thu, 10 Sep 2020, 12:58 Peter Southwood wrote: > Asaf, > What are the criteria for eligibility as moderator for this list? > Cheers, > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikim

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
Asaf, What are the criteria for eligibility as moderator for this list? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Asaf Bartov Sent: 10 September 2020 11:07 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l]

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

2020-09-10 Thread Peter Southwood
Is there a record somewhere of what unacceptable language was used and against what standard it was judged to be unacceptable? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Asaf Bartov Sent: 09 September 2020 21:57 To:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Institutional memory @ WMF

2020-08-28 Thread Peter Southwood
Maybe you could take on an official historian. Cheers, P -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Delphine Ménard Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 19:06 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Institutional memory @

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Institutional memory @ WMF

2020-08-28 Thread Peter Southwood
This is the sort of information that should be in the official history. Cheers, P -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Pete Forsyth Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 22:37 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l]

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

2020-08-04 Thread Peter Southwood
always feel free to let us know of other ideas to improve the process for community feedback gathering! Best regards, Christel Christel Steigenberger (she/her) Trust and Safety Specialist Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 8:44 PM Peter Sou

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

2020-08-01 Thread Peter Southwood
Hi Christel I am glad to hear that, and I hope that proper consultation will occur with all potentially affected parties, in places where they can comment and point out problems on user friendly or at least familiar software, over at least a reasonably representative range of languages, and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

2020-08-01 Thread Peter Southwood
for participation Hoi, So what is your alternative, what do you have as an alternative? Thanks, GerardM On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 20:24, Peter Southwood wrote: > Hi Christel, > I wish the committee well, and success in coming up with a workable > policy. This is fine as long as no a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

2020-07-30 Thread Peter Southwood
Hi Christel, I wish the committee well, and success in coming up with a workable policy. This is fine as long as no assumption is made that these people represent the communities in any way other than for themselves. They may be fine people and may even have excellent ideas and skills suited to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Operation and oversight of OTRS system

2020-07-21 Thread Peter Southwood
Could even be that no-one has gotten around to writing any policies and guidance, and everyone is just winging it with very little oversight. How could we know? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Dennis

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Operation and oversight of OTRS system

2020-07-21 Thread Peter Southwood
List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Operation and oversight of OTRS system Hoi, How can OTRS be part of Wikipedia, it is there for any and all projects. Thanks, GerardM On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 at 10:48, Peter Southwood wrote: > Context is necessary to understand this. > If OTRS part of Wik

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Operation and oversight of OTRS system

2020-07-18 Thread Peter Southwood
Seems to me that if someone does not specify a motivation, we leave it as that - no motivation. It you want to know what it is, you ask. You may get an answer, but sometimes it is not particularly relevant, as the question may be worth asking for whatever reason because the answer could be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Operation and oversight of OTRS system

2020-07-11 Thread Peter Southwood
List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Operation and oversight of OTRS system On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 at 10:48, Peter Southwood wrote: > Context is necessary to understand this. > If OTRS part of Wikipedia? I don't understand that question. The cited answer was received from . If not, Which ANI? >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Operation and oversight of OTRS system

2020-07-11 Thread Peter Southwood
Context is necessary to understand this. If OTRS part of Wikipedia? If not, Which ANI? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Aron Manning Sent: 11 July 2020 09:23 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Citizendium shutting down

2020-07-05 Thread Peter Southwood
If it was just a matter of money to keep the servers running, I would say yes, but if they have no editors there would not be a lot of point. We could offer an archive, and assimilation. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org]

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia servers

2020-06-29 Thread Peter Southwood
it seems this problem is localised on our Africa based users? Regards Seddon On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:05 PM Peter Southwood < peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > I get this: > > The connection has timed out > > The server at en.wikipedia.org is taking too long to resp

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia servers

2020-06-29 Thread Peter Southwood
, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:24 PM Peter Southwood < peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote: > Is anyone else unable to get through to the Wikimedia servers? > > Cheers, > > Peter > > ___ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >

[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia servers

2020-06-29 Thread Peter Southwood
Is anyone else unable to get through to the Wikimedia servers? Cheers, Peter ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board update on Branding: next steps

2020-06-29 Thread Peter Southwood
Dunning and Kruger identified the effect, unfortunately they did not identify a cure. Cheers, P -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: 29 June 2020 12:36 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board update on Branding: next steps

2020-06-29 Thread Peter Southwood
So far it has been an ongoing process. No obvious reason to expect a change. Cheers, P -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Dan Szymborski Sent: 28 June 2020 18:13 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board update on Branding: next steps

2020-06-27 Thread Peter Southwood
It is not methodologically sound to continue using a survey which is unfit for purpose, regardless of how many people have responded. It is ethically questionable to continue using a survey which simply does not allow for the possibility of being completely wrong when this possibility has been

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board update on Branding: next steps

2020-06-27 Thread Peter Southwood
That is a really poorly designed survey unless it has been changed since I last saw it. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Zack McCune Sent: 27 June 2020 02:37 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the Wikimedia-movement apolitical?

2020-04-26 Thread Peter Southwood
Of course not, we have a strong bias in favour of freedom of information, accuracy, and verifiability to reliable sources. Also, officially, civil discourse and decision by consensus. It is written into our basic policies (speaking as an en: Wikipedian, other projects may differ). Most policy

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Comment Open on U.S. Open Access Policy

2020-04-23 Thread Peter Southwood
The entertainment industry has more influential lobbyists? P -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of James Salsman Sent: 20 April 2020 23:40 To: Wikimedia Mailing List; Yaroslav Blanter Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Comment Open on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal towards a multilingual Wikipedia and a new Wikipedia project

2020-04-20 Thread Peter Southwood
One of the advantages of this project is that the best of each Wikipedia can be used, allowing smaller Wikipedias to concentrate on topics of local interest and importance which are not in the other language wikipedias, and these can be used in the major wikipedias, expanding their diversity if

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Summary of the Brand Project presentation

2020-04-18 Thread Peter Southwood
I agree. It did not seem to say anything much. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Fæ Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 3:06 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Summary of the Brand Project

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Що робить вас щасливими цього тижня? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 5 April 2020)

2020-04-15 Thread Peter Southwood
A very interesting proposal for a new wiki by Denny Vrandečić at https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.04733 (What's making me happy this week) Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Pine W Sent: 15 April 2020 08:36 To:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal towards a multilingual Wikipedia and a new Wikipedia project

2020-04-14 Thread Peter Southwood
Based on my first read-through of the paper, I think this would be something worth doing. Cheers, Peter. -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Denny Vrandecic Sent: 14 April 2020 02:53 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-04-10 Thread Peter Southwood
; > > untiil thats taken place.It's like asking the fox to rebuild > the > > > hen > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they > recommend. > > > > > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped int

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Peter Southwood
about Wikimedia for the last 15 years [1] and I learned that documentation may be relevant but it is unlikely to make people see what is in front of them. Thanks, GerardM [1] https://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/ On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:16, Peter Southwood wrote: > It is grossly unrealis

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Peter Southwood
its positive *and* negative benefits. Often the negative benefits seem to outweigh the positive, unfortunately. Aron On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 11:17, Peter Southwood wrote: > It is grossly unrealistic to blame English Wikipedia and its editing > community for what you appear to co

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-15 Thread Peter Southwood
On Sun, 15 Mar 2020 at 06:19, Peter Southwood wrote: > Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300 > projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia > with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other &

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-14 Thread Peter Southwood
Gerard, You start off by correctly specifying that Wikipedia is about 300 projects and make several good points about how people confuse Wikipedia with English Wikipedia, how this bias adversely affects various other projects, and then claim that "Wikipedia" is "universally understood to be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-14 Thread Peter Southwood
I put a reply on the "What does free knowledge mean to you" questionnaire, but it did not turn up on the list below the edit box. Is the set of published replies being censored or cherry-picked to remove anything that someone does not like? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-14 Thread Peter Southwood
Perhaps you do, but do the volunteer communities of the projects you would like to rename share this enthusiasm? Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Dennis During Sent: 14 March 2020 00:20 To: Wikimedia Mailing List

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

2020-03-13 Thread Peter Southwood
I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so far, it looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we operate, or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to spin their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of buzz,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia is nothing more than “Lord of the Flies”,Re: Treatment of newbies with mild CoI

2020-03-02 Thread Peter Southwood
I am not getting your point here. Could you try to explain more clearly. It would help if you used the correct words, or if you are do not know them, give the equivalent in your own language so we can get a meaningful translation. It is not even clear which Wikipedia you are complaining about.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Treatment of newbies with mild CoI

2020-02-25 Thread Peter Southwood
Also, overworked groups with large backlogs struggling to maintain high quality tend to have less patience with the inexperienced and not-yet-competent than we might like. It is also possible that some of the workers in those groups are not as competent as we would like them to be, but at those

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Why renaming to Wikipedia will wreak havoc on other projects

2020-02-25 Thread Peter Southwood
This does seem unreasonable. Do they have an explanation at Commons? This is happening without standardising in one label Wikipedia, so it is jumping to quite a conclusion to assume that the issue is related. For the record, I am also opposed to rebranding to Wikipedia, but I do not think this

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next steps on Wikimedia Space

2020-02-21 Thread Peter Southwood
I think I agree with this. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent: 21 February 2020 15:50 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next steps on Wikimedia Space Hoi, There are too

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next steps on Wikimedia Space

2020-02-20 Thread Peter Southwood
Agree about the 3 features, have not given sufficient though to the rest yet to comment. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Aron Manning Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 4:04 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Recommendations and community conversations launching next week

2020-02-09 Thread Peter Southwood
This seems a reasonably prudent path. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Pine W Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 6:14 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Recommendations

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Recommendations and community conversations launching next week

2020-02-04 Thread Peter Southwood
A big part of the problem is when these things are implemented, and people ask questions because they don't know what is going on, they are often met by complete absence of response from anyone at WMF, or in the case of the strategy, whoever it was that published the stuff for comment. I agree

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community survey: Wikimedia Diversity Conference 2020

2020-01-23 Thread Peter Southwood
Hi Nick, That is quite a lot to read to try to find where the scope is mentioned, could you be a bit more specific? I do not want to read all about three events in the hope of finding where the scope is defined. It was not obvious in the places that I looked. Cheers, Peter -Original

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Snøhetta and Wikimedia

2020-01-20 Thread Peter Southwood
Thanks for the heads-up, Mike, P -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Mike Peel Sent: 20 January 2020 00:29 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Snøhetta and Wikimedia This meta RfC might be of interest:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation elections committee: Call for volunteers

2020-01-11 Thread Peter Southwood
Joe, What would "experience with advanced wikitext markup" mean in this context? Also "responsiveness to email outreach"? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Joe Sutherland Sent: 11 January 2020 01:28 To:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dear Wikimedia, With Thanks, Donors.

2019-12-12 Thread Peter Southwood
I have also been told that Wikipedia is closing down because it is out of money. Again. Happens every year about this time. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Seddon Sent: 12 December 2019 20:39 To:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Remember Wikipedia Zero.. Where is the research about the effects of its demise?

2019-12-03 Thread Peter Southwood
James > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 4:25 PM James Salsman > wrote: > > > > > > > > Kul, > > > > > > > > Would you please send a few or more paragraph description of the > > > > accomplishments and costs of the Wik

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Remember Wikipedia Zero.. Where is the research about the effects of its demise?

2019-12-01 Thread Peter Southwood
Gerhard, I am also interested in what the impact of Wikipedia Zero was, but it is not obvious to me how it would be measured. The board members are unlikely to have personally researched this, but might know if there is or was a project and if so what they are or were trying to measure.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brief request for advice about "What's making you happy this week?"

2019-11-25 Thread Peter Southwood
Hi Pine, I look at it like I look at the Signpost. I find much of it interesting, and usually read it through from end to end. I click on links when they look interesting and I have the time. I am happy to see it exists, but in most cases I do not feel the need to add any comments, because it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation Chief of Community Engagement to leave the Foundation

2019-11-16 Thread Peter Southwood
If the changes get staff more directly and personally involved in communicating with the rest of the community it could be helpful to both groups, Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Dariusz Jemielniak Sent: 16

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiConference North America live stream

2019-11-10 Thread Peter Southwood
Hi Gerard, Do you have a better suggestion? Something practical and less expensive, that could actually work to make conferences more widely accessible? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen Sent:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

2019-09-20 Thread Peter Southwood
It would be more meaningful to derive a net value to the world ecosystem due to such travel, but that is not easily amenable to calculation. However it is probably more positive than your regular punter's vacation in the Caribbean. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Which script oral language will use anyway?

2019-09-04 Thread Peter Southwood
Perhaps this is something that should be left as the choice of the volunteers who contribute the content? Whatever they feel comfortable with and are competent in. It may vary between contributors for the same language. Once content is published, anyone with the skills and desire can

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-25 Thread Peter Southwood
Todd, We can recover from the loss of those admins eventually, but that recovery may be delayed by further blows, and somewhere along the line is the last straw. This may be welcomed by some groups, not so much by others. Otherwise I agree with your point, though do not necessarily agree with

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-25 Thread Peter Southwood
r that is > best > > to be disregarded. What is needed is accepting the need for change, > > consider what the recommendations are and consider them along the lines > of > > how we could improve upon them. > > Thanks > > GerardM > > > > On Sat, 2

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-25 Thread Peter Southwood
This appears to be a reasonable and balanced comment by Dariusz. The recommendations in their current state were opened for discussion and are being discussed. Where commentators have seen problematic issues they have pointed them out. The working groups have in some cases entirely failed to

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-24 Thread Peter Southwood
g the need for change, consider what the recommendations are and consider them along the lines of how we could improve upon them. Thanks GerardM On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 at 19:20, Peter Southwood wrote: > Gerard, > It is not clear who you are addressing here, but I am going to assume it > is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-24 Thread Peter Southwood
ng the best possible quality. So what community and why should we bother when it is not even that great as an abstraction. Thanks, GerardM On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 at 17:48, Peter Southwood wrote: > Benjamin, > Has the board or any member of the board made any statement suggesting >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-24 Thread Peter Southwood
Benjamin, Has the board or any member of the board made any statement suggesting that the board might overrule the community in this matter? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Ikuta Sent: 24 August

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Apa yang membuatmu senang di minggu ini? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 18 August 2019)

2019-08-22 Thread Peter Southwood
This! This piece by Agnes Caillard should be required reading for Wikimedians debating policy. Very well expressed Thanks, Pine, It is also making me happy this week. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Pine W

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-21 Thread Peter Southwood
I think that is very much the point Andy is making. To be reasonably representative of the "Movement" the recommendations should be accepted by the wider community, otherwise all legitimacy falls away, and it becomes the political games of a clique. Cheers P -Original Message- From:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The timeline of the Wikimedia strategy: please reconsider!

2019-08-17 Thread Peter Southwood
, that are absolutely necessary to be taken into account. Good progress, I'm quite positive about it. Aron ᐧ On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 17:35, Peter Southwood wrote: > Some are worse than others. I would settle for a mix of alpha and beta. > You don’t want to go too far before getting feedback, but when

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The timeline of the Wikimedia strategy: please reconsider!

2019-08-16 Thread Peter Southwood
uot;. Kind regards Ziko Am Do., 15. Aug. 2019 um 20:03 Uhr schrieb Peter Southwood < peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>: > I agree that a lot of review and comment is needed before some of these > items can be considered ready for further development. The amount may > differ, so why n

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The timeline of the Wikimedia strategy: please reconsider!

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Southwood
I agree that a lot of review and comment is needed before some of these items can be considered ready for further development. The amount may differ, so why not use the Wikipedian method of allowing each recommendation to remain open for discussion as long as it is being actively discussed (and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Southwood
thoughtful suggestion. I'm not sure the WG members will see it here, maybe you could post on the talk page? I haven't seen it there. Aron On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 12:00, Peter Southwood wrote: > One way to make it very clear is to have a separate project for non-free > and pseudo-free media

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Southwood
"All change has negative connotations to some members of the community". That statement may be true, but it is not useful. Not even slightly. It could serve as a preamble to a detailed exposition, but on its own in the specific context it just looks arrogant and incompetent. Cheers, Peter

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Southwood
That is a way you can look at it, but is it realistic? (it would depend on details, which we do not have) SF is an expensive place to pay staff, and the SF point of view may be overrepresented. Spreading it around a bit may be better value for money, and could improve diversity and inclusion.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-13 Thread Peter Southwood
See bottom for reply. -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Sent: 13 August 2019 01:18 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here! On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-13 Thread Peter Southwood
One way to make it very clear is to have a separate project for non-free and pseudo-free media. Keep it off Commons altogether, so Commonists have no new problems, and to use it on a project would require specific permission by that project, so that Commons is not the only repository that can

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

2019-08-13 Thread Peter Southwood
If that is so, then what we have here is a failure to communicate. Again By now we should be getting used to it. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Chris Keating Sent: 12 August 2019 18:20 To: Wikimedia Mailing

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Research Showcase] July 17, 2019 at 11:30 AM PDT, 18:30 UTC

2019-07-12 Thread Peter Southwood
I particularly agree with the finding about weaponisation of policy, and note that is often associated with a wall of shortcuts referring to policies without clarification of exactly how the policies were contravened. This is poor communication practice, and is lazy when it is not an outright

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-07-05 Thread Peter Southwood
near-miracle of English Wikipedia should be tended with great care, and that the scars from this incident will be with us for a long time. Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) On Thu, Jul 4, 2019, 00:32 Peter Southwood wrote: > The board does not manage WMF. It is not their faul

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-07-05 Thread Peter Southwood
Some training and assessment might be useful. P -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Raddatz Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 3:56 PM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-07-04 Thread Peter Southwood
and finally has to deal with consequences. True to form, no reflection on en.wp practices and the blame is conveniently put elsewhere. Thanks, GerardM On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 at 10:48, Peter Southwood wrote: > Gerard, > Is your response to my email intended to have any relevance to my >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-07-04 Thread Peter Southwood
where the community if forced to reflect. Sadly, the English Wikipedia has proven to be unable to get its house in order nor does it show reflection that give hope for a better future. Thanks, GerardM On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 at 09:32, Peter Southwood wrote: > The board does not manage

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-07-04 Thread Peter Southwood
The board does not manage WMF. It is not their fault when a department does something stupid if they had no warning that it was likely to happen. People who signed off on the ban decision may have reason to apologise, others not. The board is responsible for ensuring that the damage is fixed

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block

2019-06-28 Thread Peter Southwood
Many of us take the opposing view that we do not have enough reason to think the ban was justifiable, and that the ban itself is a small part of the issue, which is seen as lack of due process, compounded by poor communication and bad crisis management. Cheers, Peter -Original

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all

2019-06-21 Thread Peter Southwood
How can we BE safe in the movement if we cannot question the decisions of T? (when they appear questionable and unsafe) Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l Sent: Friday, June 21,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Community Health, Roles & Responsibilities

2019-06-17 Thread Peter Southwood
" Previously a strategic direction has been agreed." Not by that many. It is so vague that it can be interpreted to mean whatever the WMF want it to mean and used as a justification for a wide range of policies and actions that were not obviously specifically discussed. This was mentioned at

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