Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Hi Victoria, I hope you're doing well. Please see below. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 12:19 PM Victoria Coleman wrote: > > The WMF Cloud Services team can totally provide the needed support. The > Foundation would have to invest them to build up the team which is over > stretched but that should

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

And just as an additional note. Using AWS was mainly because it was what the team was most familiar with and enabled us to prototype faster. We know there are going to be a lot of requirements from a lot of different users from with the WMF, the broader technical community, researchers along with

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Hey all, Given that this project is a direct result of the recommendations from the strategy process the biggest questions are I feel mainly about how we go about this. There are really bad ways this project could be approached and then there are ways which are aligned with our movement and we

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Rupert, My comment below referred to the point Kunal made about hosting should the movement decide (and it is a movement decision in my view) to go forward with a paid API. There is a healthy debate as you point out about the wisdom or otherwise of doing so. But should a decision be made to go

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

+1 This sounds like an ideal approach. ! Else: surprised that noone mentioned public cloud options running on OpenStack. Is there no obvious place to start there?  On Mon., Jul. 20, 2020, 3:19 p.m. Victoria Coleman, < vstavridoucole...@gmail.com> wrote: > +1 Kunal! The WMF Cloud Services

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

victoria, discussions to monetize the wikipedia content in one or the other way are as old as wikipedia. some people say "why should i continue editing and supporting wikipedia in my free time, or donate money, attracted by the vision to make it available to all, without condition, when WMF starts

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

+1 Kunal! The WMF Cloud Services team can totally provide the needed support. The Foundation would have to invest them to build up the team which is over stretched but that should easily pay for itself as revenue starts flowing in from the paid API. Victoria > On Jul 9, 2020, at 1:38 PM,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Hi, On 2020-07-09 13:15, Dan Garry (Deskana) wrote: > Which cloud provider would you recommend? Wikimedia Cloud Services, which incidentally, has the fastest network connection to Wikimedia sites by virtue of it being hosted *inside* the cluster. -- Legoktm signature.asc Description:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

All cloud providers are approximately level in evil. The way we break it down at my day job is: * AWS: when you want it to work and want customer service * Microsoft: when you hate yourself, you're running Windows or both * Google: when you want zero customer service ever under any circumstances

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 at 21:15, Dan Garry (Deskana) wrote: > ECR and GKE. > Correction: I meant GCR, not GKE. Dan ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 at 18:20, Amir Sarabadani wrote: > * I find it ethically wrong to use AWS, even if you can't host it in WMF > for legal reasons, why not another cloud provider. Which cloud provider would you recommend? Popular alternatives to AWS include GCP (by Google, who unscrupulously

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Hey all. I'll reply to some of the more finer legal details tomorrow but to be clear the repo will be made available publicly and the code base will be open sourced and based on open source tech. Seddon On Thu, 9 Jul 2020, 19:06 Benjamin Ikuta, wrote: > > > I agree, the lack of transparency

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Let me just flip the perspective. The tech giants are leveraging their resources to serve the knowledge we create to even more users. In a way, they are partly furthering our mission. So rather than solely using our resources as a cost, it could instead be viewed upon as a multiplier. Now this is

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

I agree, the lack of transparency is quite concerning, as is the use of AWS. I sure hope we're not going to be producing closed source code! On Jul 9, 2020, at 10:19 AM, Amir Sarabadani wrote: > Thanks Joseph for the links. It's more clear now. > > I think I need to clarify something:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Worth noting, for those who may not have been tracking this issue in the media in recent years: CEO Katherine Maher has prominently and frequently highlighted how big tech companies benefit from Wikipedia and Wikimedia content, and that they pay little if anything for it. This shows up in many

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Thanks Joseph for the links. It's more clear now. I think I need to clarify something: I'm not against asking the big corps to pay. If they are using a significant amount of our computational resources (=donors money) to make even more money, they should pay. And thank you for improving the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

I tend to agree with this. I'm one of the first to criticize WMF when they deserve it (I wish they didn't as often!), but I see nothing wrong with consumers of huge amounts of data being asked to chip in to cover the costs of providing it. That is, of course, provided that there is never any fee

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Hi, Great news: the WMF is going to charge the tech giants for using the API millions of times each day. Nothing in the free licenses we use obligate us (that is we in our movement) to provide an API for free as in beer. It is part of KAAS: Knowledge As A Service, part of the strategic direction

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Yes it's - donation not working for me * Mohammed Bachounda * Leader Wikimedia Algeria UG [image: Thumbnail for version as of 13:48, 19 April 2020] On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 2:20 PM William Chan wrote: > It's don...@wikimedia.org. > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2020, 19:05

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

It's don...@wikimedia.org. On Thu, Jul 9, 2020, 19:05 Mohammed Bachounda wrote: > Hello, > Why i'm recieving this message : > Message not delivered > There was a problem delivering your message to *don...@wikimedia.com*. See > the technical details below. > > * Mohammed Bachounda

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Hello, Why i'm recieving this message : Message not delivered There was a problem delivering your message to *don...@wikimedia.com*. See the technical details below. * Mohammed Bachounda * Leader Wikimedia Algeria UG [image: Thumbnail for version as of 13:48, 19

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Hey all, Apologies for the delay. Two overview pages covering the technical and business side of the project: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OKAPI https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OKAPI Regards Seddon On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:29 PM Samuel Klein wrote: > A well-provisioned bulk api has been

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

A well-provisioned bulk api has been missing for some time. Thanks for working on this. And clearing up the recommended way for WP content to appear and be linked in third-party searches and infoboxes is important -- the sort of thing that an internal policy (and way to subscribe to feeds) can

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Hey Chris, I think that saying this happened because of the recommendations remains a fair statement but for sure there are some caveats with that. I don’t want to speak for the entire org but I'm also pretty confident in saying that there are a lot more than just two recommendations with work

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

1. Never let a crisis go to waste. 2. Never let a strategy process go to waste. If you've got something you want that is not necessarily universally loved, make a plan and cram it into anything that doesn't make it a laughingstock. Want to loot Constantinople? Make sure you're in the Crusade

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

It's interesting that of all the strategy recommendations, two are so far being implemented. One is the Universal Code of Conduct, which has at least had plenty of discussion and publicity, that even precedes the strategy process. The other is this, which hasn't been particularly prominent before,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

You can find some more discussion at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_3/Promote_Sustainability_and_Resilience#Freemium As I mentioned there, the premise of the recommendation is that the movement needs new revenue sources; in part

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Hey Amir! Thanks for your questions. It’s sunday (for me 0400 on a Monday) and a mailing list isn’t the right venue for a full detailed explanation for this but I’ll give a little background. James is correct that the work in this area is coming out of the strategy process and the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Thanks for the pointers, I personally disagree with some parts of it (e.g. Twitter is a company and we are an NGO) BUT since it passed the community consultation (and I somehow missed it to raise my feedback), I don't want to be vocal about the high level reasoning behind the project. What I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Further details are forthcoming from WMF staff. J On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 1:42 PM James Heilman wrote: > Was discussed here > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Revenue_Streams/1 > > and > > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Was discussed here https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Revenue_Streams/1 and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Revenue_Streams/1 James On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 1:37 PM

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

The strategy recommendations include the text: "Explore fees or sustainability models for enterprise-scale commercial reusers, taking care to avoid revenue dependencies or other undue external influence in product design and development. / Develop appropriate safeguards to ensure continued free,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

I know that the dumps will be freely available to all. Beyond that, I hope one of the people in the project will reply to your concerns. I do suggest that people comment or ask questions on the task itself, as I have no idea if any of the people on the brand new team involved with that project

[Wikimedia-l] Paid API?

Hello, Today I stumbled upon this public phabricator ticket [1] created by someone from WMF starting with: "My team is creating bi-weekly HTML Dumps for all of the wikis, except for wikidata as part of the paid API project." I have so many questions: - What is the "paid API" project? Are we