and larger, I can't speak for the smaller towns.
John
-Original Message-
From: chris cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:00 AM
To: ''WISPA General List''
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Why not just buy the cards, boards
with populationd
of
25,000 and larger, I can't speak for the smaller towns.
John
-Original Message-
From: chris cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:00 AM
To: ''WISPA General List''
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Free Municipal Wi-Fi Service Boosts Economic Development in the City of
St. Cloud, FL
at http://www.digitalcityexpo.com/agenda.htm
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: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Free Municipal Wi-Fi Service Boosts Economic Development in the City of
St. Cloud, FL
at http
] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
What is really funny is that they used Hewlett Packard. Why not Cisco,
Alvarion, Tranzeo. These are some of the people who are suppose to know
what they are doing.
BTW I am a certified HP Computer and printer tech. but still I think
they know what they are doing
for tax payers, and serves
the public well then I'll be impressed. Brad
-Original Message-
From: John J. Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
-Original Message-
From
the public well then I'll be impressed. Brad
-Original Message-
From: John J. Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:03 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
-Original Message
Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
- Original Message -
From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
I'll go ahead and predict that San
Travis Johnson wrote:
You guys are all missing the point. If they contract with the local
WISP, they don't get to create new jobs for the muni... instead, they
are just helping a local business grow with local tax money.
Welcome to politics in the wireless arena. :(
Travis
Microserv
Here in Atlanta you can't use 2.4 unless it is indoors. In fact, you
have to get out 90+ miles before the noise floor drops off enough to
even think about it.
-Matt
Need I say more.
George
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Chris cooper wrote:
The SR9 cards might be interesting for this app...
Probably not much help Chris.
As you and every wisp who has deployed more than a few AP's in urban
density knows, there is not enough spectrum available in all the
unlicensed bands combined to service the vast population
What is really funny is that they used Hewlett Packard. Why not Cisco,
Alvarion, Tranzeo. These are some of the people who are suppose to know
what they are doing.
BTW I am a certified HP Computer and printer tech. but still I think
they know what they are doing. KICKBACK
You have a Good Day
3500 registered users using a network that costs $400K per year to
maintain!!! That's $114 per subscriber! Why not just pay to give them
DSL! LOL
--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll
1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
A Tropos unit has a 1W transmitter, is capable of being powered via PoE or
via AC delivered through standard outlets as well as a variety of
photo-cell taps including high-voltage ones. When powered with AC, it is
capable
Bob Moldashel wrote:
3500 registered users using a network that costs $400K per year to
maintain!!! That's $114 per subscriber! Why not just pay to give
them DSL! LOL
You laugh, but there are ISPs with less than 50 broadband customers.
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
That's 114 a year, it's 9.50 a sub on a monthly rate.
DSJ
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter R.
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Bob Moldashel
-Original Message-
From: George [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 09:02 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
John J. Thomas wrote:
inline...
First off, the WISPs have to have the guts to talk to the city. Many
with populationd of
25,000 and larger, I can't speak for the smaller towns.
John
-Original Message-
From: chris cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:00 AM
To: ''WISPA General List''
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Why not just buy
So, in Atlanta, the trees are so dense that a 5 GHz radio putting out 26 dBm
into a 7.5 dB omni can't go 2500 feet?
John
-Original Message-
From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:53 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi
Bob,
It's $9.50 per month per user, after only 50 days of evangelizing. Not
even the SBCs of the world are selling it for that. And as soon as
grandma Jones and Bob down the street figure out what's going on,
they'll sign up, too. So it will only be $4.16/mo. when they hit the
8,000 mark.
: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:13 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Travis Johnson wrote:
You guys are all missing the point. If they contract with the local WISP,
they don't get to create new jobs for the muni... instead, they are
just helping a local business grow
George,
Few people care about socialistic programs so long as their pockets are
affected in a positive way. Our government is not purely capitalistic,
and was never designed to be. Plus, access has become a commodity and a
utility. It's no surprise to me that governments try to regulate
: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Bob,
It's $9.50 per month per user, after only 50 days of evangelizing. Not
even the SBCs of the world are selling it for that. And as soon as
grandma Jones and Bob down the street figure out what's going on, they'll
sign up, too. So
$173K per mile build out cost? Somebody just bought a new boat..
c
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:08 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
I'll go ahead and predict that San Francisco will be a disaster.
-Matt
Jack Unger wrote:
Unfortunately, this may be one of the first of many such muni problems
that I've been forcasting for years. Muni wireless can be done
correctly and WISPs (IMHO) should always try (when allowed) to play a
I am doubting that wisps can actually accomadate the muni in most
situations, unless they are closely involved with the design of the
network, Talking spectrum use here.
As for going along with free muni wifi, How is a wisp going to operate
if a muni is offering for free or at cut rate
, April 24, 2006 07:26 AM
To: ''WISPA General List''
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
$173K per mile build out cost? Somebody just bought a new boat..
c
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George
Sent: Monday
-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Unfortunately, this may be one of the first of many such muni problems
that I've been forcasting for years. Muni wireless can be done correctly
and WISPs (IMHO) should always try (when allowed) to play a positive
role in proper network design and operation however most
General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:10 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Jack,
I hate to say it but didn't we say I told you so There is just not
enough spectrum to design networks like this to work with anything but
dedicated CPE
inline...
-Original Message-
From: George [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 07:40 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
I am doubting that wisps can actually accomadate the muni in most
situations, unless
roflol
The city is selling signal boosters (I read that as amps) to anyone that
wants them for $170?
Oh man, this deployment is gonna come CRASHING down. Hard.
It's really too bad these people are too ignorant, stubborn or just plain
stupid to call any of us in to help.
sigh
Marlon
John J. Thomas wrote:
inline...
First off, the WISPs have to have the guts to talk to the city. Many simply
refuse to do so, and are probably going to get the Muni WiFi shoved down their
throats.
I don't want to turn this into a battle of ideals.
But how many local wisps have been
24, 2006 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
I am doubting that wisps can actually accomadate the muni in most
situations, unless they are closely involved with the design of the
network, Talking spectrum use here.
As for going along with free muni wifi, How
No, they are selling higher powered CPE devices that act as a bridge
connecting to the muni network and then act as a local AP to help lower
powered laptops effectively use the service.
-Matt
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
roflol
The city is selling signal boosters (I read that as
, April 24, 2006 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
I am doubting that wisps can actually accomadate the muni in most
situations, unless they are closely involved with the design of the
network, Talking spectrum use here.
As for going along with free muni wifi
General List''
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
$173K per mile build out cost? Somebody just bought a new boat..
c
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of George
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:08 AM
In recent post I explained that here in Atlanta you can only use a
single 2.4 channel because of the noise floor. How is a multi-band mesh
node going to work?
Maybe there is a reason the big muni projects keep selecting Tropos.
-Matt
Jack Unger wrote:
Dawn,
Thanks for posting the St.
General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
George,
Unfortunately, every time that the public hears about problems with a
wifi network (muni or otherwise) it is going to reflect badly on all of
us. After reading the article, it is pretty clear that the writer
picked out
To: ''WISPA General List''
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
$173K per mile build out cost? Somebody just bought a new boat..
c
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of George
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006
http://www.wirelessmapping.com
-Original Message-
From: Jack Unger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 1:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Dawn,
Thanks for posting the St. Cloud PepLink and HP info.
Using
Matt,
A multi-band mesh node does the backhaul on 5 GHz (sometimes with more
than one 5 GHz radio). This reduces (but certainly doesn't eliminate)
the 2.4 GHz self-interference and other-network-interference level.
The reason the big muni projects often select Tropos is that Tropos has
the
Jack Unger wrote:
A multi-band mesh node does the backhaul on 5 GHz (sometimes with more
than one 5 GHz radio). This reduces (but certainly doesn't eliminate)
the 2.4 GHz self-interference and other-network-interference level.
You can't use 5 Ghz to go through trees here in Atlanta, so that
intermapper will be a plus. Joe
- Original Message -
From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 12:44 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
HP likes to design these Tropos networks by never having
List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Dawn,
Thanks for posting the St. Cloud PepLink and HP info.
Using standard CPE (PePLink)is very good but using Tropos nodes is very,
very bad. Very bad because they only have one single 2.4 GHz radio so
after 2 or 3 hops, all
Then the 5 GHz backhaul network must have antennas that are raised above
the trees. Another option is to backhaul with city-owned fiber.
Backhauling on 900 MHz is a possible third option. All it takes is rf
knowledge, creativity, and cooperation.
jack
]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 1:22 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Dawn,
Thanks for posting the St. Cloud PepLink and HP info.
Using standard CPE (PePLink)is very good but using Tropos nodes is very,
very bad. Very bad because they only have
How do you raise the antennas above the trees without building really
tall poles? Trees around here are 60-70ft.
City-owned fiber only exists in places with enough density that there
aren't any trees to begin with. Residential areas generally have lots of
trees and no reason for fiber runs.
OK Matt, being a creative person, you can then suggest the use of DSL
for the backhaul...
jack
Matt Liotta wrote:
How do you raise the antennas above the trees without building really
tall poles? Trees around here are 60-70ft.
City-owned fiber only exists in places with
The SR9 cards might be interesting for this app...
chris
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Unger
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 2:39 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
OK Matt, being
Jack Unger wrote:
1. The attenuation between 2.4 GHz nodes is not enough to prevent each
node from hearing multiple other nodes as noise (thus more packet
retransmissions and more reduced throughtput). This requires
understanding link budgets, signal-to-noise ratios, and receiver
threshold
Jack,
Not a problem. This discussion needed the information and no one else
posted it. I have been reading up on this network since
Ken went to the MuniWireless Show in Atlanta. Unfortunately some of the
articles I read are no longer available.
Regards,
Dawn DiPietro
Jack Unger wrote:
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Then there are companies like airmatrix that charge less than 1k per
node.
The key with mesh is density, and many mesh startup's fail because they
Underbuild their networks.
-
Jeff
On 4/24/06 7:53 AM, John J. Thomas
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Then there are companies like airmatrix that charge less than 1k per
node.
The key with mesh is density, and many mesh startup's fail because they
Underbuild their networks.
-
Jeff
On 4/24/06 7:53 AM
Broadband
- Original Message -
From: Brian Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Pioneering Wi-Fi City Sees Startup Woes
Jack,
I hate to say it but didn't we say I told you so There is just
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