Re: [WISPA] 700 MHz decision at FCC

2007-04-28 Thread Rich Comroe


- Original Message - 
From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 700 MHz decision at FCC


Justin...  I am aware of the problems revolving around the inability to 
talk

to each other via voice radio.   I would tend to agree that frequency
coordination seems to be a terrible issue.   The cited reasons for this
was the 9-11 problems with coordination of emergency services, and NO
hurricane problems.  Nobody blew up the NO radio communications 
facilities.
They just died because they lacked any means of self support when the 
power
went out, and the phone and the agencies weren't talking to each other, 
and

didn't seem to know who to talk to for what.That's just the outside
perception, at least.


Your outside perceptions are completely wrong.



But as far as I can tell,  this isn't about talking to each other, it's
about building a digital network - IP based, perhaps?


If you're not sure what the broadband network is for, how could you have 
already called the plan absurd?




I'm still confused as to why we can't have fire department radios that can
talk to the cops, ambulances, and whoever else.   A lack of spectrum 
doesn't
seem to be issue, rather it appears to be political boundaries between 
each

department, and no mechanism to deal with widespread communications
problems.


Completely wrong.



Cyren Call wanted 30 mhz to build a nationwide network.I'm just not
cognizant of how this is going to somehow magically solve the problem with
agencies having turf wars, and people either not following, or not haveing 
a

rational plan for dealing with widespread disasters.

I'm welcome to explanations of how things are going to improve with a
national digital network that's subject to all the same issues as telco
outages, broadband outages, etc, etc... ???



I wouldn't begin to know where to start to explain it to you.  I don't 
believe you have any notion whatsoever of what the issues and challenges are 
of public safety communications that are being addressed.  If you wanted to 
learn, you could start with the PSWAC report ... it's public and on-line. 
But what amazed me is how you conclude with no knowledge that the public 
safety broadband communications plans are absurd and can't possibly work. 
Why would you jump out and slam a field that you know nothing about?  Yet 
you wonder where people get the notion from that you're anti-gov.  Why not 
just say excuse me on that one and we'll move on.


Rich



- Original Message - 
From: Justin Comroe [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 700 MHz decision at FCC




- Original Message - 
From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 700 MHz decision at FCC


I hate to say it, but it looks like the FCC is going to squander massive
 opportunity, and instead, settle for some money...

 (sigh).

 This nationwide broadband network for public safety is absurd.

Why would you say this?  I served on the technology committee that 
drafted

the Public Safety Wireless Advisory Committee (PSWAC) report to the
FCC/NTIA.  The initiative was a response to the first world trade center
bombing in 93 when public safety agencies from all surrounding 
communities

converted on South Manhattan ... and yet the public safety officers could
more easily throw stones / rocks at each other than communicate on their
radios.  In PSWAC we focused on compatibility (I know you think it's an
evil, innovation stifling word), but of course the difference in 
frequency

assignment of every agencies equipment was equally problematic.  A
nationwide allocation of compatible equipment seems eminently logical

as
the cleanest solution to the dilema.  Of course, little improved 
following

the later 2001 trade center bombing, and money didn't get ponied up for
replacement equipment for a long time (not until the 2006 democratic
congress identified this as one of their first 100 hrs issues [the
connection being that the 9/11 commission identified this as a lingering
unaddressed problem that public safety communications had yet to be
funded]), but this is essentially the logic behind the 4.9GHz
allocation -- 

and all allocations for public safety since PSWAC.

 Yet another means of communication that won't be around when it's

needed,

 because it'll be down or something.

Why would you say this?  Public Safety takes care of their radio 
equipment

as well as they take care of their firearms and vehicles.  In fact, I've
heard that a patrolman gets docked more $ for losing his 2-way radio than
for losing his gun!  Any failure of a public safety communications radio
network is an automatic inquiry / investigation event.

Both your comments appear to be slaps at public safety communications 
with


Re: [WISPA] EarthLink studying muni Wi-Fi business

2007-04-28 Thread Jack Unger

WOW! This is the smartest thing that Earthlink could possibly do.

Are they finally starting to recognize the limitations of Wi-Fi 
technology or are they simply starting to understand how to properly 
cost-model Muni Wi-Fi?


jack


Matt Liotta wrote:
ATLANTA - EarthLink Inc. said Thursday it will study the performance of 
its municipal wireless Internet networks in four cities — Philadelphia, 
New Orleans and California's Anaheim and Milpitas — before deciding how 
to move forward with similar Wi-Fi networks elsewhere.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070426/ap_on_hi_te/earthlink_wi_fi


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True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
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[WISPA] ATTENTION: Board Applicatins Due MAY 1

2007-04-28 Thread Rick Harnish
OK EVERYONE, it is CRUNCH TIME!  If you have interest in being on the WISPA
Board, spend a few minutes this weekend and fill out the application below.
We will stop accepting applications at Midnight, May 1st, 2007.  

 

 

 

The WISPA Board Election schedule has been set.  All interested members need
to go to http://nominations.wispa.org/ and fill out the application for the
ballot.  We encourage and expect to get a very good response to this year's
call for directors.  We have grown substantially in the last six months and
WISPA is maturing into the lead association for the WISP community.

 

Applications are due on May 1st, so don't procrastinate.  Further
information about the election process and the responsibilities of the board
can be found in the bylaws at http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=4

 

 

THE NOMINATION  ELECTION PROCESS 

 

 

 

Here are the important dates for those of you following the election,
running for a board position and who will be taking part in the election
process.

 

 

 

May 1st, 2007 - Applications due.

 

 

 

May 14, 2007 - Qualified nominees compiled and submitted to the standing
Board of Directors. Nominee information made available via the WISPA Web
site for member review.

 

 

 

June 15, 2007 - Election of new Board members.

 

 

 

All members are eligible to run for a board position. Only Principal and
Vendor members may vote for board positions. Only one vote per company is
allowed. Instructions and credentials for voting will be sent to each member
company via email prior to election. If you are a member company and do not
receive instructions for voting or credentials it is your responsibility to
request such information by emailing [EMAIL PROTECTED] or calling 618-244-6868
and requesting help getting your instructions and credentials for voting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

UNDERSTANDING THE ROLE OF THE BOARD

 

 

 

The role of the board is to set policies that will ensure that it fulfills
its legal and professional responsibilities to members. The board sets the
strategic direction and leadership tone for the organization.

 

 

 

The WISPA Board of Directors is comprised of seven (7). Each director shall
serve for a term of one (1) year and until his or her successor is elected
and qualified, or until such director's earlier death, resignation,
incapacity to serve, or removal. 

 

 

 

All paid WISPA members are eligible for board positions, however the
majority of the board will be WISPA Principal Members. 

 

 

 

Rick Harnish

President

OnlyInternet Broadband  Wireless, Inc.

260-827-2482

Founding Member of WISPA

 

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RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread Smith, Rick
as a complete system.

 

Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

 

Good point. They must have gotten FCC approval as a complete system over
a year ago.

Travis
Microserv

Frank Crawford wrote: 

Travis;
The router board also connects to a MiniPCI CM9 wireless board that
functions as a WiFi Access Point.
 
Page 5, Section 2, Paragraph 1 of trango's mesh manual, the trango atlas
radios are for backhaul.
 
hope this helps
 
frank
 
 
- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
 
 
  

The Trango MESH box uses Trango radios (thus FCC certified) and
an RB532
for doing the routing. The RB is NOT providing any wireless
service.
 
Travis
Microserv
 
George Rogato wrote:


If the mesh box that is a MT box is legit and certified,
why not just
drop trango from the picture?
What is the purpose of trango ?
 
 
Dawn DiPietro wrote:
  

Frank,
 
Then I would suggest Rick go the Trango route.
 
Regards,
Dawn DiPietro
 
Frank Crawford wrote:


Trango's mesh box uses rb532 plus
daughter bd and mikrotik OS. It's
in thier
manual.
Frank
 
- Original Message - From: Dawn
DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: WISPA General List
wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi /
Wireless info ?
 
 
 
  

Rick,
 
I have to agree with Ralph on this one.
Since you have admitted on a
public list that you believe there are
no certified Mikrotik
systems out
there it would not be in your best
interest to start off with such a
 


system.
 
  

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro
 
 
ralph wrote:
 


The first thing I'd do in a case like
that, is use an FCC approved
 
  

system to
 
  

start with.  The fact that you don't
plan to leaves you open for
 
  

controversy
 
  

from the beginning.
 
Why would you do anything else?
 
Ralph
 
 -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Smith, Rick
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless
info ?
 
We're looking to provide service to a
school nearby, using
Mikrotik and
SR5 / SR9 cards.
   

RE: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-28 Thread Smith, Rick
Travis, a little perspective...you're in a technology hot-bed area of
the country!

Marlon's not.  MUCH tougher for Marlon, in perspective, to get where
he's gotten to today.

There's probably only one school / one high school in Marlon's coverage
area ?

Odessa ain't big. :)


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:20 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

Well, I seem to be holding my own ground pretty well... and I DON'T turn

customers over to my competition... over 65 towers in operation, over 
3,000 wireless subs, hundreds of DSL subs, almost 50 fiber subs (banks, 
hospitals, insurance, etc.)... and NO outside investors, stock holders, 
or any long-term debt whatsoever. :)

(OT: Our annual gross revenue has been within 1% of the previous year 
for the past 4 years. However, I have managed to decrease our expenses 
by 10% every year. While this doesn't seem like a lot, realize we are a 
multi-million dollar company. There is EASY money to be made by just 
cutting expenses. Things like shopping around for better CC rates, 
better insurance rates, cheaper bandwidth, etc.)

Also, if you leased your equipment, you could put the new tower up for 
less than $200 per month for EVERYTHING. ;)

rant
Call it what you will Marlon, but I believe you started your wireless 
operation around 1997 (going off your website). In 1997 we started our 
wireless service as well. Today we have over 3,000 connected wireless 
subs and are growing at over 100 per month. We have been profitable 
since our first year in business. This will be _another_ record breaking

year for us. We have a backbone uptime of 99.99% over the last 2 years 
(including scheduled maintenance). Our wireless subs see a 99.9% uptime 
(including maintenance, interferance issues, blown AP's, etc). We 
deliver over 150Mbps of internet traffic during business hours using 
three diverse providers (DS3 via Qwest fiber, OC3 via seperate Qwest 
fiber, Level3 via fastethernet via seperate fiber via seperate NOC). We 
provide service to 8 entire school districts (out of a possible 10 in 
our entire 25,000 square mile coverage area).
/rant

So, if I'm short sighted and you are not, why is my company 10x the size

and making 10x the profit when both of us started at the same time?

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

 - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:16 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering


 Why wouldn't you just put up your own AP's and service the same area 
 rather than give that customer away to the competition?

 Spectrum congestion.

 Cashflow

 Speed.

 Expanded coverage, very quickly, for no money.


 I would spend $5k and put up my own tower before I turn a potential

 customer away to the competition. I've done it many times over the 
 years and it has always paid off. Once one person is connected, they 
 tell their neighbors about it. Pretty soon an AP that was put up for 
 a single customer has 10 or 20 customers on it.

 Um, the competitors ALREADY have networks in place!


 Doesn't seem to make business sense to me. Plus when they need tech 
 support, how do you troubleshoot the competitors AP's? How do you do 
 RF link tests and packet loss tests at 10:00PM when the customer is 
 on the phone?

 I call the competitor on his cell phone.  Just like he does with me.

 Your attidude, while pretty typical, is very short sighted.  The more 
 we work together to keep the airways clean and maximize the 
 investments, the better all of our networks run and the faster we can 
 grow.

 It's that silly ol' Together we stand thing.

 I was watching a group of kids play Red Rover the other day.  I had to

 wonder how that game would turn out if the kids all tried to stand 
 there and hold their OWN ground instead of working as a team.


 Travis
 Microserv

 Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

 - Original Message - From: George Rogato 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 6:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering


 Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
 Two of my competitors just sat down for lunch and worked out a 
 network sharing agreement.  It's a handshake deal at this point 
 though.

 Basically we carved up a hilltop laying out coverage zones for 
 each of us, and we set a price for using each other's ap's.

 Marlon

 Hey I think thats a good thing you've done there Marlon, getting 
 along and even doing business with your competitors.

 Yeah.  It's something that the three of us have already been doing 
 for a couple of years.  We sell on each other's ap's at the same 
 price.  The only catch is that each of us has to live under the bw, 
 and bit cap rules of the other guys network vs. our own.  But that 
 seems perfectly fair to me.

 We 

Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-28 Thread Travis Johnson




Marlon's main city is Odessa, WA. Within 65 miles is Spokane, WA that
has hundreds of thousands of people, plus all the suburbs.

It seems he is "short sighted" by not expanding into that market 6-8
years ago. Sixty miles is nothing... I have a single 73 mile shot that
has been running 100% uptime for almost 2 years.

Travis
Microserv

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

  I have to come to Marlon's defense a bit here.The idaho falls /
pocatello area has DRAMATICALLY more people than the central washington
wasteland Marlon serves.

You serve the populated areas of Bonneville, Bingham and Bannock Counties,
if I estimate your coverage.  This approaches a quarter million people, at
least for the three counties, it does.

Marlon's town is about 1000 people, Lincoln and Adams  County together have
less than 30K people, and his main competition is a utility which is using
it's financial might to subsidize buried fiber to every home in Grant
County.

I have seen Marlon's territory, driven through it, and seen his "operation".
It's a collection of small  community markets.  I would say that in spite of
being small, he probably has considerably higher market share than you do,
for the places he covers.

None of this is to disparage anyone.   But you can't compare apples and
oranges like that and have it make any sense at all.   I suspect you'd
struggle mightily to adapt to marlon's situation... and vice versa.

Let's not go off on each other here..  We have much better targets to aim
at.

- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering


  
  
Well, I seem to be holding my own ground pretty well... and I DON'T turn
customers over to my competition... over 65 towers in operation, over
3,000 wireless subs, hundreds of DSL subs, almost 50 fiber subs (banks,
hospitals, insurance, etc.)... and NO outside investors, stock holders,
or any long-term debt whatsoever. :)

(OT: Our annual gross revenue has been within 1% of the previous year
for the past 4 years. However, I have managed to decrease our expenses
by 10% every year. While this doesn't seem like a lot, realize we are a
multi-million dollar company. There is EASY money to be made by just
cutting expenses. Things like shopping around for better CC rates,
better insurance rates, cheaper bandwidth, etc.)

Also, if you leased your equipment, you could put the new tower up for
less than $200 per month for EVERYTHING. ;)

rant
Call it what you will Marlon, but I believe you started your wireless
operation around 1997 (going off your website). In 1997 we started our
wireless service as well. Today we have over 3,000 connected wireless
subs and are growing at over 100 per month. We have been profitable
since our first year in business. This will be _another_ record breaking
year for us. We have a backbone uptime of 99.99% over the last 2 years
(including scheduled maintenance). Our wireless subs see a 99.9% uptime
(including maintenance, interferance issues, blown AP's, etc). We
deliver over 150Mbps of internet traffic during business hours using
three diverse providers (DS3 via Qwest fiber, OC3 via seperate Qwest
fiber, Level3 via fastethernet via seperate fiber via seperate NOC). We
provide service to 8 entire school districts (out of a possible 10 in
our entire 25,000 square mile coverage area).
/rant

So, if I'm short sighted and you are not, why is my company 10x the size
and making 10x the profit when both of us started at the same time?

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


  - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering


  
  
Why wouldn't you just put up your own AP's and service the same area
rather than give that customer away to the competition?

  
  Spectrum congestion.

Cashflow

Speed.

Expanded coverage, very quickly, for no money.

  
  
I would spend $5k and put up my own tower before I turn a "potential"
customer away to the competition. I've done it many times over the
years and it has always paid off. Once one person is connected, they
tell their neighbors about it. Pretty soon an AP that was put up for
a single customer has 10 or 20 customers on it.

  
  Um, the competitors ALREADY have networks in place!

  
  
Doesn't seem to make business sense to me. Plus when they need tech
support, how do you troubleshoot the competitors AP's? How do you do
RF link tests and packet loss tests at 10:00PM when the customer is
on the phone?

  
  I call the competitor on his cell phone.  Just like he does with me.

Your attidude, while pretty typical, is very short sighted.  The more
we work together to keep the airways clean and maximize the
investments, the better 

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread Dawn DiPietro

Rick,


Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?

No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the 
antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the 
manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach 
you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was 
certified system.

I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these 
questions about certification.


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro

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RE: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC.

2007-04-28 Thread Charles Wu
Out of curiosity...does this mean I can just email blast the list with
events that I organize?

-Charles 


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-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sascha Meinrath
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:30 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 --
Washington, DC.

FYI:

Contact:
Sascha Meinrath
Executive Director
CUWiN Foundation
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
217-278-3933 x31

INTERNATIONAL SUMMIT TO ADDRESS FUTURE OF BROADBAND
-- Community Technology Leaders from Six Continents to Participate --

Champaign-Urbana, I.L., April 18 -- The CUWiN Foundation and the Center
for Community Informatics (CCI) will host the International Summit for
Community Wireless Networks (http://WirelessSummit.org) from May 18-20,
2007 at Loyola College in Columbia, Maryland.

The summit is the largest gathering of wireless network developers,
technology and policy experts, and community organizers working to build
universal, low-cost broadband networks around the world. We are proud
to host an event that brings together technologists and activists
committed to universal access to informatics, said Marco Figueiredo,
CCI Director.

The International Summit for Community Wireless Networks explores the
opportunities and challenges facing the growing movement to build
community and municipal broadband networks, said Sascha Meinrath,
co-founder and Executive Director of CUWiN. This event showcases
cutting-edge technologies and develops political strategies to increase
digital inclusion.

Since the first National Summit for Community Wireless Networks in 2004,
over 300 Community Internet and municipal broadband projects have sprung
up in the United States alone. The Summit will focus on how these
networks can better serve their target populations, the policies needed
to support broader deployment of community wireless systems, and the
latest technological and software innovations.

Presenters at previous summits have included FCC Commissioner Jonathan
Adelstein, Jim Baller of the Baller Herbst Law Group, Annie Collins of
Fiber for Our Future, Mark Cooper of the Consumer Federation of America,
Harold Feld of Media Access Project, Robert W. McChesney of Free Press,
Matt Rantanen of Tribal Digital Village, Greg Richardson of Civitium
LLC, Paul Smith of the Center for Neighborhood Technologies, Jim Snider
of the New America Foundation, Dana Spiegel of NYCwireless, Esme Vos of
Muniwireless.com and many other luminaries.

High-speed broadband access is the electricity of the 21st century, yet
many rural and poorer urban communities are being left off the grid,
said Ben Scott, policy director of Free Press, the DC-based policy
think-tank. The innovators and organizers at the International Summit
for Community Wireless Networks are blazing the trail to make broadband
affordable and available to everyone.

About CUWiN (http://www.cuwin.net)
The CUWiN Foundation is a world-renowned coalition of wireless
developers and community volunteers committed to providing low-cost,
do-it-yourself, community-controlled alternatives to contemporary
broadband models. CUWiN is fiscally sponsored by Grassroots.org, a
non-profit 501c3.  CUWiN's mission is to develop decentralized,
community-owned networks that foster democratic cultures and local
content. Through advocacy and through our commitment to open source
technology, CUWiN supports organic networks that grow to meet the needs
of their communities.

About CCI (http://cci.cs.loyola.edu)
The Center for Community Informatics engages Loyola College's students,
faculty and staff in supporting the creation and deployment of
informatics tools for community empowerment.  CCI develops the Community
Telecenter Free Software Toolset; promotes awareness events for the
Loyola College community; offer courses in Community Informatics;
promotes Digital Inclusion Conferences; researches and develops
human-friendly technologies to facilitate inclusion in the New Society
of Knowledge; and, evaluates, documents and develops sustainable models
for Universal Access to Informatics.

# # #


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Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread Dawn DiPietro

Rick,

There is no way you would be legit if you decided to do this on your 
own. Considering the conversation that went on a few weeks back 
mentioned that people used Mikrotik systems because of the feature set 
and not cost why would you not buy an already certified system. To be 
safe I would go with a system that is already certified instead of 
chancing it.


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro

Dawn DiPietro wrote:

Rick,


Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?
No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal 
from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have 
to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If 
you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to 
make sure this really a was certified system.


I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these 
questions about certification.


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro



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Re: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC.

2007-04-28 Thread Dawn DiPietro

Charles,

How did I know you would make this an issue? ;-)

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro


Charles Wu wrote:

Out of curiosity...does this mean I can just email blast the list with
events that I organize?

-Charles 



---
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Coming to a City Near You
http://www.winog.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sascha Meinrath
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:30 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 --
Washington, DC.

FYI:

Contact:
Sascha Meinrath
Executive Director
CUWiN Foundation
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
217-278-3933 x31

INTERNATIONAL SUMMIT TO ADDRESS FUTURE OF BROADBAND
-- Community Technology Leaders from Six Continents to Participate --

Champaign-Urbana, I.L., April 18 -- The CUWiN Foundation and the Center
for Community Informatics (CCI) will host the International Summit for
Community Wireless Networks (http://WirelessSummit.org) from May 18-20,
2007 at Loyola College in Columbia, Maryland.

The summit is the largest gathering of wireless network developers,
technology and policy experts, and community organizers working to build
universal, low-cost broadband networks around the world. We are proud
to host an event that brings together technologists and activists
committed to universal access to informatics, said Marco Figueiredo,
CCI Director.

The International Summit for Community Wireless Networks explores the
opportunities and challenges facing the growing movement to build
community and municipal broadband networks, said Sascha Meinrath,
co-founder and Executive Director of CUWiN. This event showcases
cutting-edge technologies and develops political strategies to increase
digital inclusion.

Since the first National Summit for Community Wireless Networks in 2004,
over 300 Community Internet and municipal broadband projects have sprung
up in the United States alone. The Summit will focus on how these
networks can better serve their target populations, the policies needed
to support broader deployment of community wireless systems, and the
latest technological and software innovations.

Presenters at previous summits have included FCC Commissioner Jonathan
Adelstein, Jim Baller of the Baller Herbst Law Group, Annie Collins of
Fiber for Our Future, Mark Cooper of the Consumer Federation of America,
Harold Feld of Media Access Project, Robert W. McChesney of Free Press,
Matt Rantanen of Tribal Digital Village, Greg Richardson of Civitium
LLC, Paul Smith of the Center for Neighborhood Technologies, Jim Snider
of the New America Foundation, Dana Spiegel of NYCwireless, Esme Vos of
Muniwireless.com and many other luminaries.

High-speed broadband access is the electricity of the 21st century, yet
many rural and poorer urban communities are being left off the grid,
said Ben Scott, policy director of Free Press, the DC-based policy
think-tank. The innovators and organizers at the International Summit
for Community Wireless Networks are blazing the trail to make broadband
affordable and available to everyone.

About CUWiN (http://www.cuwin.net)
The CUWiN Foundation is a world-renowned coalition of wireless
developers and community volunteers committed to providing low-cost,
do-it-yourself, community-controlled alternatives to contemporary
broadband models. CUWiN is fiscally sponsored by Grassroots.org, a
non-profit 501c3.  CUWiN's mission is to develop decentralized,
community-owned networks that foster democratic cultures and local
content. Through advocacy and through our commitment to open source
technology, CUWiN supports organic networks that grow to meet the needs
of their communities.

About CCI (http://cci.cs.loyola.edu)
The Center for Community Informatics engages Loyola College's students,
faculty and staff in supporting the creation and deployment of
informatics tools for community empowerment.  CCI develops the Community
Telecenter Free Software Toolset; promotes awareness events for the
Loyola College community; offer courses in Community Informatics;
promotes Digital Inclusion Conferences; researches and develops
human-friendly technologies to facilitate inclusion in the New Society
of Knowledge; and, evaluates, documents and develops sustainable models
for Universal Access to Informatics.

# # #


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RE: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC.

2007-04-28 Thread Smith, Rick
Charles has a point... vendor members pay for the privilege...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 10:27 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 --
Washington, DC.

Charles,

How did I know you would make this an issue? ;-)

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro


Charles Wu wrote:
 Out of curiosity...does this mean I can just email blast the list with
 events that I organize?

 -Charles 


 ---
 WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
 Coming to a City Near You
 http://www.winog.com 


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
 Behalf Of Sascha Meinrath
 Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:30 PM
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 --
 Washington, DC.

 FYI:

 Contact:
 Sascha Meinrath
 Executive Director
 CUWiN Foundation
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 217-278-3933 x31

 INTERNATIONAL SUMMIT TO ADDRESS FUTURE OF BROADBAND
 -- Community Technology Leaders from Six Continents to Participate --

 Champaign-Urbana, I.L., April 18 -- The CUWiN Foundation and the
Center
 for Community Informatics (CCI) will host the International Summit for
 Community Wireless Networks (http://WirelessSummit.org) from May
18-20,
 2007 at Loyola College in Columbia, Maryland.

 The summit is the largest gathering of wireless network developers,
 technology and policy experts, and community organizers working to
build
 universal, low-cost broadband networks around the world. We are proud
 to host an event that brings together technologists and activists
 committed to universal access to informatics, said Marco Figueiredo,
 CCI Director.

 The International Summit for Community Wireless Networks explores the
 opportunities and challenges facing the growing movement to build
 community and municipal broadband networks, said Sascha Meinrath,
 co-founder and Executive Director of CUWiN. This event showcases
 cutting-edge technologies and develops political strategies to
increase
 digital inclusion.

 Since the first National Summit for Community Wireless Networks in
2004,
 over 300 Community Internet and municipal broadband projects have
sprung
 up in the United States alone. The Summit will focus on how these
 networks can better serve their target populations, the policies
needed
 to support broader deployment of community wireless systems, and the
 latest technological and software innovations.

 Presenters at previous summits have included FCC Commissioner Jonathan
 Adelstein, Jim Baller of the Baller Herbst Law Group, Annie Collins of
 Fiber for Our Future, Mark Cooper of the Consumer Federation of
America,
 Harold Feld of Media Access Project, Robert W. McChesney of Free
Press,
 Matt Rantanen of Tribal Digital Village, Greg Richardson of Civitium
 LLC, Paul Smith of the Center for Neighborhood Technologies, Jim
Snider
 of the New America Foundation, Dana Spiegel of NYCwireless, Esme Vos
of
 Muniwireless.com and many other luminaries.

 High-speed broadband access is the electricity of the 21st century,
yet
 many rural and poorer urban communities are being left off the grid,
 said Ben Scott, policy director of Free Press, the DC-based policy
 think-tank. The innovators and organizers at the International Summit
 for Community Wireless Networks are blazing the trail to make
broadband
 affordable and available to everyone.

 About CUWiN (http://www.cuwin.net)
 The CUWiN Foundation is a world-renowned coalition of wireless
 developers and community volunteers committed to providing low-cost,
 do-it-yourself, community-controlled alternatives to contemporary
 broadband models. CUWiN is fiscally sponsored by Grassroots.org, a
 non-profit 501c3.  CUWiN's mission is to develop decentralized,
 community-owned networks that foster democratic cultures and local
 content. Through advocacy and through our commitment to open source
 technology, CUWiN supports organic networks that grow to meet the
needs
 of their communities.

 About CCI (http://cci.cs.loyola.edu)
 The Center for Community Informatics engages Loyola College's
students,
 faculty and staff in supporting the creation and deployment of
 informatics tools for community empowerment.  CCI develops the
Community
 Telecenter Free Software Toolset; promotes awareness events for the
 Loyola College community; offer courses in Community Informatics;
 promotes Digital Inclusion Conferences; researches and develops
 human-friendly technologies to facilitate inclusion in the New Society
 of Knowledge; and, evaluates, documents and develops sustainable
models
 for Universal Access to Informatics.

 # # #


 --
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-28 Thread Jack Unger

Travis,

Congratulations on your immense prosperity, your unrivaled brilliance, 
your incredible talent and your uncanny business acumen. I think I also 
saw your picture recently in People Magazine's World's Most Beautiful 
People - 2006 article.


jack


Travis Johnson wrote:
Marlon's main city is Odessa, WA. Within 65 miles is Spokane, WA that 
has hundreds of thousands of people, plus all the suburbs.


It seems he is short sighted by not expanding into that market 6-8 
years ago. Sixty miles is nothing... I have a single 73 mile shot that 
has been running 100% uptime for almost 2 years.


Travis
Microserv

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

I have to come to Marlon's defense a bit here.The idaho falls /
pocatello area has DRAMATICALLY more people than the central washington
wasteland Marlon serves.

You serve the populated areas of Bonneville, Bingham and Bannock Counties,
if I estimate your coverage.  This approaches a quarter million people, at
least for the three counties, it does.

Marlon's town is about 1000 people, Lincoln and Adams  County together have
less than 30K people, and his main competition is a utility which is using
it's financial might to subsidize buried fiber to every home in Grant
County.

I have seen Marlon's territory, driven through it, and seen his operation.
It's a collection of small  community markets.  I would say that in spite of
being small, he probably has considerably higher market share than you do,
for the places he covers.

None of this is to disparage anyone.   But you can't compare apples and
oranges like that and have it make any sense at all.   I suspect you'd
struggle mightily to adapt to marlon's situation... and vice versa.

Let's not go off on each other here..  We have much better targets to aim
at.

- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering


  

Well, I seem to be holding my own ground pretty well... and I DON'T turn
customers over to my competition... over 65 towers in operation, over
3,000 wireless subs, hundreds of DSL subs, almost 50 fiber subs (banks,
hospitals, insurance, etc.)... and NO outside investors, stock holders,
or any long-term debt whatsoever. :)

(OT: Our annual gross revenue has been within 1% of the previous year
for the past 4 years. However, I have managed to decrease our expenses
by 10% every year. While this doesn't seem like a lot, realize we are a
multi-million dollar company. There is EASY money to be made by just
cutting expenses. Things like shopping around for better CC rates,
better insurance rates, cheaper bandwidth, etc.)

Also, if you leased your equipment, you could put the new tower up for
less than $200 per month for EVERYTHING. ;)

rant
Call it what you will Marlon, but I believe you started your wireless
operation around 1997 (going off your website). In 1997 we started our
wireless service as well. Today we have over 3,000 connected wireless
subs and are growing at over 100 per month. We have been profitable
since our first year in business. This will be _another_ record breaking
year for us. We have a backbone uptime of 99.99% over the last 2 years
(including scheduled maintenance). Our wireless subs see a 99.9% uptime
(including maintenance, interferance issues, blown AP's, etc). We
deliver over 150Mbps of internet traffic during business hours using
three diverse providers (DS3 via Qwest fiber, OC3 via seperate Qwest
fiber, Level3 via fastethernet via seperate fiber via seperate NOC). We
provide service to 8 entire school districts (out of a possible 10 in
our entire 25,000 square mile coverage area).
/rant

So, if I'm short sighted and you are not, why is my company 10x the size
and making 10x the profit when both of us started at the same time?

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:


- Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering


  

Why wouldn't you just put up your own AP's and service the same area
rather than give that customer away to the competition?


Spectrum congestion.

Cashflow

Speed.

Expanded coverage, very quickly, for no money.

  

I would spend $5k and put up my own tower before I turn a potential
customer away to the competition. I've done it many times over the
years and it has always paid off. Once one person is connected, they
tell their neighbors about it. Pretty soon an AP that was put up for
a single customer has 10 or 20 customers on it.


Um, the competitors ALREADY have networks in place!

  

Doesn't seem to make business sense to me. Plus when they need tech
support, how do you troubleshoot the competitors AP's? How do you do
RF link tests and packet loss tests at 10:00PM when the customer is
on the phone?


I call the competitor on his cell phone.  Just like he 

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread Mike Hammett

People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?



Rick,


Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?
No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from 
the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the 
manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this 
approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this 
really a was certified system.


I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions 
about certification.


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro

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RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread Smith, Rick
With good reason.  It's not an acceptable solution if it's not
certified.

If someone takes you to court over interference (which they can!) you'd
lose if they're using certified gear and you're not.  The fact that it's
Unlicensed spectrum takes a back seat until both are proven to be using
legal gear.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?


 Rick,

 Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
 and consider it certified ?
 No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal
from 
 the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get
the 
 manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this

 approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this 
 really a was certified system.

 I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these
questions 
 about certification.

 Regards,
 Dawn DiPietro

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Re: [WISPA] 700 MHz decision at FCC

2007-04-28 Thread David E. Smith

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

I didn't read it all, just scanned a bit and read some summaries, but
there's NOTHING GOOD in it for us.   Not much good in it for consumers,
either.
The fact that it's 200 pages looks a bit daunting, but once you learn 
how to use the magic FCC Decoder Ring, it gets a lot easier. Every 
section start with here's what this section will talk about, then a 
bunch of X party said this about that idea, then a couple paragraphs 
at the end that say and we're doing This, and here's why. You can 
safely skip over those middle sections, as they don't contain too many 
surprises (and about 90% of them are the FCC saying we reject this 
idea anyway).

Basically, the FCC is gunning for the big bucks on the spectrum auction and
there's NO spectrum considered, as best I can tell, for use for small WISP
use.   Rather, it's regionally and market sized auctions for the most part,
and then something or other about cellular market auctions.   I dunno what
all those mean, but I can predict it's nothing I'll ever get to use.
  
The smallest licenses are tied to Cellular Market Areas, most of which 
are eight or ten counties. Basically, the perfect size for a WISP.


Can someone more familiar than I with FCC-fu explain to me, though, how 
it is that about a third of those CMA licenses appear to already have 
been sold? (There's an FCC Auction 49, in which 246 CMAs labeled lower 
700MHz band were sold in spring 2003.)


As an aside, how will the remaining 500 or so of those licenses be sold?

David Smith
MVN.net

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Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread George Rogato

I would assume Dawn, that your statement like mine is an SS U Me tion.

If the trango's plug into the ethernets and the cm9 is a wifi ap, then 
it's quite a stretch to say that the mt-cm9 combo alone is not certified.


George

Dawn DiPietro wrote:

Rick,


Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?
No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal 
from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to 
get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you 
took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make 
sure this really a was certified system.


I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these 
questions about certification.


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro



--
George Rogato

Welcome to WISPA

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Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread George Rogato



Dawn DiPietro wrote:

Rick,

There is no way you would be legit if you decided to do this on your 
own. Considering the conversation that went on a few weeks back 
mentioned that people used Mikrotik systems because of the feature set 
and not cost why would you not buy an already certified system. 



Dawn, the reason we do this is because we like the performance of our 
mt-star type systems over Trango, Alvarion, Moto, etc.


If the system is certified with a board and cm9's, why would we not want 
and be able to use the system in the way we see fit?


Why do we have to use Trango for the backhaul, if a cm9 is legit?

--
George Rogato

Welcome to WISPA

www.wispa.org

http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC.

2007-04-28 Thread George Rogato
Charles, you should be asking the board this, or at least members who 
pay and have some say in wispa, not the open anyone can post wireless 
-list..


Don't you agree?

George

Charles Wu wrote:

Out of curiosity...does this mean I can just email blast the list with
events that I organize?

-Charles 



---
WiNOG Wireless Roadshows
Coming to a City Near You
http://www.winog.com 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sascha Meinrath
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:30 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 --
Washington, DC.

FYI:

Contact:
Sascha Meinrath
Executive Director
CUWiN Foundation
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
217-278-3933 x31

INTERNATIONAL SUMMIT TO ADDRESS FUTURE OF BROADBAND
-- Community Technology Leaders from Six Continents to Participate --

Champaign-Urbana, I.L., April 18 -- The CUWiN Foundation and the Center
for Community Informatics (CCI) will host the International Summit for
Community Wireless Networks (http://WirelessSummit.org) from May 18-20,
2007 at Loyola College in Columbia, Maryland.

The summit is the largest gathering of wireless network developers,
technology and policy experts, and community organizers working to build
universal, low-cost broadband networks around the world. We are proud
to host an event that brings together technologists and activists
committed to universal access to informatics, said Marco Figueiredo,
CCI Director.

The International Summit for Community Wireless Networks explores the
opportunities and challenges facing the growing movement to build
community and municipal broadband networks, said Sascha Meinrath,
co-founder and Executive Director of CUWiN. This event showcases
cutting-edge technologies and develops political strategies to increase
digital inclusion.

Since the first National Summit for Community Wireless Networks in 2004,
over 300 Community Internet and municipal broadband projects have sprung
up in the United States alone. The Summit will focus on how these
networks can better serve their target populations, the policies needed
to support broader deployment of community wireless systems, and the
latest technological and software innovations.

Presenters at previous summits have included FCC Commissioner Jonathan
Adelstein, Jim Baller of the Baller Herbst Law Group, Annie Collins of
Fiber for Our Future, Mark Cooper of the Consumer Federation of America,
Harold Feld of Media Access Project, Robert W. McChesney of Free Press,
Matt Rantanen of Tribal Digital Village, Greg Richardson of Civitium
LLC, Paul Smith of the Center for Neighborhood Technologies, Jim Snider
of the New America Foundation, Dana Spiegel of NYCwireless, Esme Vos of
Muniwireless.com and many other luminaries.

High-speed broadband access is the electricity of the 21st century, yet
many rural and poorer urban communities are being left off the grid,
said Ben Scott, policy director of Free Press, the DC-based policy
think-tank. The innovators and organizers at the International Summit
for Community Wireless Networks are blazing the trail to make broadband
affordable and available to everyone.

About CUWiN (http://www.cuwin.net)
The CUWiN Foundation is a world-renowned coalition of wireless
developers and community volunteers committed to providing low-cost,
do-it-yourself, community-controlled alternatives to contemporary
broadband models. CUWiN is fiscally sponsored by Grassroots.org, a
non-profit 501c3.  CUWiN's mission is to develop decentralized,
community-owned networks that foster democratic cultures and local
content. Through advocacy and through our commitment to open source
technology, CUWiN supports organic networks that grow to meet the needs
of their communities.

About CCI (http://cci.cs.loyola.edu)
The Center for Community Informatics engages Loyola College's students,
faculty and staff in supporting the creation and deployment of
informatics tools for community empowerment.  CCI develops the Community
Telecenter Free Software Toolset; promotes awareness events for the
Loyola College community; offer courses in Community Informatics;
promotes Digital Inclusion Conferences; researches and develops
human-friendly technologies to facilitate inclusion in the New Society
of Knowledge; and, evaluates, documents and develops sustainable models
for Universal Access to Informatics.

# # #


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--
George Rogato

Welcome to WISPA

www.wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread Mike Hammett

Every time I go to look up antenna\radio certifications:

=
NOTICE: Most of the FCC website and related electronic filing systems and 
documents (except for the Wireless Telecommunications Bureau's website, 
auctions and licensing systems) will be unavailable between 5:00 am EDT 
Saturday, April 28 and 8:00 pm EDT Sunday, April 29 for scheduled 
maintenance.


=


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Smith, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:08 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?


With good reason.  It's not an acceptable solution if it's not
certified.

If someone takes you to court over interference (which they can!) you'd
lose if they're using certified gear and you're not.  The fact that it's
Unlicensed spectrum takes a back seat until both are proven to be using
legal gear.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?



Rick,


Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?

No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal

from

the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get

the

manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this



approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this
really a was certified system.

I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these

questions

about certification.

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro

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Re: [WISPA] EarthLink studying muni Wi-Fi business

2007-04-28 Thread Dylan Oliver

Speaking of limitations, I just read a scathing review of Madison's MadCity
Broadband muni Wi-Fi project. The system was built by Cell Net and uses
Cisco's mesh gear.

See here: *http://tinyurl.com/yrz7cb*

MadCity Broadband uses a wholesale model. One company, ResTech, signed up
2000 subscribers. All but 700 have cancelled. ResTech is pulling out,
leaving Merr.com as the sole resale partner.

*According to Galanter, Madison is a pioneer* in developing a citywide
broadband system and a proving ground for the equipment, manufactured by
Cisco Systems.

It's all so new, she says. Cisco is using our experience to continue to
improve the technology. And Madison's approach is unique — no two cities are
thinking about it in the same way.
I sure would hate to be a proving ground for Cisco!

Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
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[WISPA] Post Card marketing

2007-04-28 Thread Mike Hammett
Does anyone have examples of post card marketing they have done?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

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Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread Dawn DiPietro

George,

Trango would have had the whole system certified not just the radio card 
and the SBC. You can't take out a few parts from a certified system and 
consider it legal in any way shape or form.
The system as a whole was certified including the case, the power supply 
and software. As far as I understand it if you change anything it would 
need to be re certified. The system would also need a sticker with the 
FCC ID # affixed to the outside of the case. Aren't you on the Cert 
Committee?


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro


George Rogato wrote:

I would assume Dawn, that your statement like mine is an SS U Me tion.

If the trango's plug into the ethernets and the cm9 is a wifi ap, then 
it's quite a stretch to say that the mt-cm9 combo alone is not certified.


George

Dawn DiPietro wrote:

Rick,


Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?
No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal 
from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have 
to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If 
you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to 
make sure this really a was certified system.


I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these 
questions about certification.


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro





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Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering

2007-04-28 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
Have you ever driven from Odessa to Spokane?


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 6:22 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering


 Marlon's main city is Odessa, WA. Within 65 miles is Spokane, WA that has
hundreds of thousands of people, plus all the suburbs.

 It seems he is short sighted by not expanding into that market 6-8 years
ago. Sixty miles is nothing... I have a single 73 mile shot that has been
running 100% uptime for almost 2 years.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
 I have to come to Marlon's defense a bit here.The idaho falls /
 pocatello area has DRAMATICALLY more people than the central washington
 wasteland Marlon serves.

 You serve the populated areas of Bonneville, Bingham and Bannock Counties,
 if I estimate your coverage.  This approaches a quarter million people, at
 least for the three counties, it does.

 Marlon's town is about 1000 people, Lincoln and Adams  County together
have
 less than 30K people, and his main competition is a utility which is using
 it's financial might to subsidize buried fiber to every home in Grant
 County.

 I have seen Marlon's territory, driven through it, and seen his
operation.
 It's a collection of small  community markets.  I would say that in spite
of
 being small, he probably has considerably higher market share than you do,
 for the places he covers.

 None of this is to disparage anyone.   But you can't compare apples and
 oranges like that and have it make any sense at all.   I suspect you'd
 struggle mightily to adapt to marlon's situation... and vice versa.

 Let's not go off on each other here..  We have much better targets to aim
 at.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:19 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering


   Well, I seem to be holding my own ground pretty well... and I DON'T turn
 customers over to my competition... over 65 towers in operation, over
 3,000 wireless subs, hundreds of DSL subs, almost 50 fiber subs (banks,
 hospitals, insurance, etc.)... and NO outside investors, stock holders,
 or any long-term debt whatsoever. :)

 (OT: Our annual gross revenue has been within 1% of the previous year
 for the past 4 years. However, I have managed to decrease our expenses
 by 10% every year. While this doesn't seem like a lot, realize we are a
 multi-million dollar company. There is EASY money to be made by just
 cutting expenses. Things like shopping around for better CC rates,
 better insurance rates, cheaper bandwidth, etc.)

 Also, if you leased your equipment, you could put the new tower up for
 less than $200 per month for EVERYTHING. ;)

 rant
 Call it what you will Marlon, but I believe you started your wireless
 operation around 1997 (going off your website). In 1997 we started our
 wireless service as well. Today we have over 3,000 connected wireless
 subs and are growing at over 100 per month. We have been profitable
 since our first year in business. This will be _another_ record breaking
 year for us. We have a backbone uptime of 99.99% over the last 2 years
 (including scheduled maintenance). Our wireless subs see a 99.9% uptime
 (including maintenance, interferance issues, blown AP's, etc). We
 deliver over 150Mbps of internet traffic during business hours using
 three diverse providers (DS3 via Qwest fiber, OC3 via seperate Qwest
 fiber, Level3 via fastethernet via seperate fiber via seperate NOC). We
 provide service to 8 entire school districts (out of a possible 10 in
 our entire 25,000 square mile coverage area).
 /rant

 So, if I'm short sighted and you are not, why is my company 10x the size
 and making 10x the profit when both of us started at the same time?

 Travis
 Microserv

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
 - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:16 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering


   Why wouldn't you just put up your own AP's and service the same area
 rather than give that customer away to the competition?
 Spectrum congestion.

 Cashflow

 Speed.

 Expanded coverage, very quickly, for no money.

   I would spend $5k and put up my own tower before I turn a
potential
 customer away to the competition. I've done it many times over the
 years and it has always paid off. Once one person is connected, they
 tell their neighbors about it. Pretty soon an AP that was put up for
 a single customer has 10 or 20 customers on it.
 Um, the competitors ALREADY have networks in place!

   Doesn't seem to make business sense to me. Plus when they need tech
 support, how do you troubleshoot the competitors AP's? How do you do
 RF link tests and packet loss tests at 10:00PM when the customer is
 on the phone?
 I call the competitor on his cell phone.  

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread Dawn DiPietro

Mike,

Why risk losing your business for using uncertified gear?

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro



Mike Hammett wrote:

People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?



Rick,


Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?
No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal 
from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have 
to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If 
you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to 
make sure this really a was certified system.


I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these 
questions about certification.


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro

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Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread George Rogato

I don't think so.

I think they probably have done the testing and got the certs for the 
board and the card.


The trango stuff is a diferent test and cert that happened a long time ago.

Lets not read more into it than whats there. We all know what a trango 
unit looks like and we all know how it works and we know that one works 
with out the other and has no effect on each other.


Point we are making is, did trango and mt certify a cm9 with a board.

End of question.




Dawn DiPietro wrote:

George,

Trango would have had the whole system certified not just the radio card 
and the SBC. You can't take out a few parts from a certified system and 
consider it legal in any way shape or form.
The system as a whole was certified including the case, the power supply 
and software. As far as I understand it if you change anything it would 
need to be re certified. The system would also need a sticker with the 
FCC ID # affixed to the outside of the case. Aren't you on the Cert 
Committee?


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro


George Rogato wrote:

I would assume Dawn, that your statement like mine is an SS U Me tion.

If the trango's plug into the ethernets and the cm9 is a wifi ap, then 
it's quite a stretch to say that the mt-cm9 combo alone is not certified.


George

Dawn DiPietro wrote:

Rick,


Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?
No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal 
from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have 
to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If 
you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to 
make sure this really a was certified system.


I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these 
questions about certification.


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro







--
George Rogato

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Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread Mike Hammett

I think there's much more important things to worry about.

Do I use frayed cables linking an XR5 to a 6 watt amp into an omni?  No.

I mainly use radios that are relatively low powered, though I have a couple 
Ubiquiti.  I use quality connections to connect them to quality antenna.  I 
have yet to fully complete my research due to the FCC's site being down more 
than up when I'm doing said research.  However, Ubiquiti has stated that 
they have certified their XR line of radios with antenna up to 32 dbi.  I am 
not using antenna that large.


I have read someone else state that uninentional radiator certification is 
pretty cheap and easy to achieve.  I can go that route if things aren't 
already covered.


If you take a step back and look at it, if Mikrotik products were so evil, 
surely the FCC would have imposed some sort of sanction on Mikrotik, their 
distributors, etc.  They have not.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?



Mike,

Why risk losing your business for using uncertified gear?

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro



Mike Hammett wrote:

People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?



Rick,


Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?
No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal 
from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to 
get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you 
took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make 
sure this really a was certified system.


I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these 
questions about certification.


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro

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[WISPA] RE: Madcity muni report

2007-04-28 Thread ralph
Why in heaven's name would Madison risk that much of a project on unproven
equipment?  What kind of track record does Cisco have in mesh?  They must
not have done a proof of concept area first. 

The 2000 sub initial sub number isn't believable anyway, though. Mesh take
rates are nowhere near that high.  Someone isn't putting out correct
figures.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dylan Oliver
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 3:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] EarthLink studying muni Wi-Fi business

Speaking of limitations, I just read a scathing review of Madison's MadCity
Broadband muni Wi-Fi project. The system was built by Cell Net and uses
Cisco's mesh gear.

See here: *http://tinyurl.com/yrz7cb*

MadCity Broadband uses a wholesale model. One company, ResTech, signed up
2000 subscribers. All but 700 have cancelled. ResTech is pulling out,
leaving Merr.com as the sole resale partner.

*According to Galanter, Madison is a pioneer* in developing a citywide
broadband system and a proving ground for the equipment, manufactured by
Cisco Systems.

It's all so new, she says. Cisco is using our experience to continue to
improve the technology. And Madison's approach is unique - no two cities are
thinking about it in the same way.
I sure would hate to be a proving ground for Cisco!

Best,
-- 
Dylan Oliver


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Re: [WISPA] RE: Madcity muni report

2007-04-28 Thread Dylan Oliver

I don't know why you don't believe the 2000 subscriber figure. The goal of
the article is clearly not to pump the system up.

The City, for what it's worth, did not risk all that much. Some employees'
time, I think is what the article said - though that could be considerable!
Cell Net took most of the burden.

On 4/28/07, ralph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Why in heaven's name would Madison risk that much of a project on unproven
equipment?  What kind of track record does Cisco have in mesh?  They must
not have done a proof of concept area first.

The 2000 sub initial sub number isn't believable anyway, though. Mesh take
rates are nowhere near that high.  Someone isn't putting out correct
figures.



--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
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RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread ralph
And so they should. FCC rules are not jokes. They have real fines.
Just because folks have always done it this way and see everyone else
doing it doesn't exonerate them from wrongdoing. 

Using uncertified systems is just plain illegal. Period.

There are people in WISPA who have pictures of installations on their web
sites clearly showing amplifiers and homemade systems.  Some of the rest
of you continue to make postings and saying that you are violating the regs.
Now we have this discussion about Trango. Because Trango has some MT
components in a certified system (which they may or not do- I don't follow
Trango), now all of a sudden we are trying to imagine that these components
must now be legal for *everyone* to use in whatever configuration they want,
as well.

What part of this do you guys not get?  Most of you guys pay your taxes
don't you? You buy license plates for your vehicles don't you?  If you have
towers that require lighting, you light them, don't you? Would your excuses
work to protect you if you don't do that?  

Those of us who obey the rules aren't paranoid about it at all. Its only
those who don't and are now realizing that they can lose their businesses
over this. 

As I have said many times:  Folks- tell/show your vendors that you are not
going to use illegal systems. Look at Deliberant at an example of someone
building from modules and getting certified. Those guys have it together!


Does there have to be an example case where someone gets fined to make you
guys see this?

Ralph

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions


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RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread ralph
Sure, if you can afford the FCC fine!
Please post when/where you do this. ;-)



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Smith, Rick
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:22 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

as a complete system.

 

Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

 

Good point. They must have gotten FCC approval as a complete system over
a year ago.

Travis
Microserv

Frank Crawford wrote: 

Travis;
The router board also connects to a MiniPCI CM9 wireless board that
functions as a WiFi Access Point.
 
Page 5, Section 2, Paragraph 1 of trango's mesh manual, the trango atlas
radios are for backhaul.
 
hope this helps
 
frank
 
 
- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
 
 
  

The Trango MESH box uses Trango radios (thus FCC certified) and
an RB532
for doing the routing. The RB is NOT providing any wireless
service.
 
Travis
Microserv
 
George Rogato wrote:


If the mesh box that is a MT box is legit and certified,
why not just
drop trango from the picture?
What is the purpose of trango ?
 
 
Dawn DiPietro wrote:
  

Frank,
 
Then I would suggest Rick go the Trango route.
 
Regards,
Dawn DiPietro
 
Frank Crawford wrote:


Trango's mesh box uses rb532 plus
daughter bd and mikrotik OS. It's
in thier
manual.
Frank
 
- Original Message - From: Dawn
DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: WISPA General List
wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi /
Wireless info ?
 
 
 
  

Rick,
 
I have to agree with Ralph on this one.
Since you have admitted on a
public list that you believe there are
no certified Mikrotik
systems out
there it would not be in your best
interest to start off with such a
 


system.
 
  

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro
 
 
ralph wrote:
 


The first thing I'd do in a case like
that, is use an FCC approved
 
  

system to
 
  

start with.  The fact that you don't
plan to leaves you open for
 
  

controversy
 
  

from the beginning.
 
Why would you do anything else?
 
Ralph
 
 -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Smith, Rick
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:44 AM
To: WISPA General List

Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread George Rogato
Ralph, your looking at this from the wrong angle. With the Trango / MT 
situation, we HOPE that they are certified, because that will mean it's 
much easier to get our own flavor of MT cm9 certified and that MT 
actually is involved in certification efforts. Till now there has been 
no indication they and others are.


The crux of this ongoing argument is did someone certify a MT, 
routerboard, cm9 system? Skip the already certified Trango components.


What we all want is this stuff to get certified, and your right on track 
to push for certification. It will benefit us all.



ralph wrote:

And so they should. FCC rules are not jokes. They have real fines.
Just because folks have always done it this way and see everyone else
doing it doesn't exonerate them from wrongdoing. 


Using uncertified systems is just plain illegal. Period.

There are people in WISPA who have pictures of installations on their web
sites clearly showing amplifiers and homemade systems.  Some of the rest
of you continue to make postings and saying that you are violating the regs.
Now we have this discussion about Trango. Because Trango has some MT
components in a certified system (which they may or not do- I don't follow
Trango), now all of a sudden we are trying to imagine that these components
must now be legal for *everyone* to use in whatever configuration they want,
as well.

What part of this do you guys not get?  Most of you guys pay your taxes
don't you? You buy license plates for your vehicles don't you?  If you have
towers that require lighting, you light them, don't you? Would your excuses
work to protect you if you don't do that?  


Those of us who obey the rules aren't paranoid about it at all. Its only
those who don't and are now realizing that they can lose their businesses
over this. 


As I have said many times:  Folks- tell/show your vendors that you are not
going to use illegal systems. Look at Deliberant at an example of someone
building from modules and getting certified. Those guys have it together!


Does there have to be an example case where someone gets fined to make you
guys see this?

Ralph

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions




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Re: [WISPA] RE: Madcity muni report

2007-04-28 Thread mliotta
 I don't know why you don't believe the 2000 subscriber figure. The goal of
 the article is clearly not to pump the system up.

I for one wouldn't believe it considering the word is that Earthlink
doesn't even have a total of 2000 paying subscribers across all their
Wi-Fi networks.

-Matt

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RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread Smith, Rick
how much is the fine ?

Where's it specified ?

(SERIOUS question.)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 5:40 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

Sure, if you can afford the FCC fine!
Please post when/where you do this. ;-)



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Smith, Rick
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:22 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

as a complete system.

 

Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

 

Good point. They must have gotten FCC approval as a complete system over
a year ago.

Travis
Microserv

Frank Crawford wrote: 

Travis;
The router board also connects to a MiniPCI CM9 wireless board that
functions as a WiFi Access Point.
 
Page 5, Section 2, Paragraph 1 of trango's mesh manual, the trango atlas
radios are for backhaul.
 
hope this helps
 
frank
 
 
- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
 
 
  

The Trango MESH box uses Trango radios (thus FCC certified) and
an RB532
for doing the routing. The RB is NOT providing any wireless
service.
 
Travis
Microserv
 
George Rogato wrote:


If the mesh box that is a MT box is legit and certified,
why not just
drop trango from the picture?
What is the purpose of trango ?
 
 
Dawn DiPietro wrote:
  

Frank,
 
Then I would suggest Rick go the Trango route.
 
Regards,
Dawn DiPietro
 
Frank Crawford wrote:


Trango's mesh box uses rb532 plus
daughter bd and mikrotik OS. It's
in thier
manual.
Frank
 
- Original Message - From: Dawn
DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: WISPA General List
wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:12 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi /
Wireless info ?
 
 
 
  

Rick,
 
I have to agree with Ralph on this one.
Since you have admitted on a
public list that you believe there are
no certified Mikrotik
systems out
there it would not be in your best
interest to start off with such a
 


system.
 
  

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro
 
 
ralph wrote:
 


The first thing I'd do in a case like
that, is use an FCC approved
 
  

system to
 
  

start with.  The fact that you don't
plan to leaves you open for
 
  

controversy
 
  

from the beginning.
 
Why would you do anything else?
 
Ralph
 
 -Original Message-
  

Re: [WISPA] WISPA ISPCON PROMO - Ends May 4th

2007-04-28 Thread Frank Muto

We're excited to be exhibiting at ISPCON Spring 2007: LaunchPad Pavilion J.
And we want to see you there! We have negotiated a special rate for
our clients and partners so you can save big on your ISPCON full-conference
registration. But that is only the start, please read on...

ISPCON Spring 2007 will take place May 23-25 at the Rosen Centre Hotel
in Orlando, FL. Simply sign up online by May 4, 2007 and use our unique
customer code: PLUSS7. The $100 discount will be taken off the current $595
price of the full-conference pass. Or use our customer code to get a FREE
pass to the exhibit hall and keynotes. http://www.ispcon.com/register.php

Ok, now here is the WISPA ONLY BONUS!

Until May 4th only, the first 10 WISP's signing up for a Full conference
pass using our Promo code, PLUSS7 saving $100 off the full conference pass
of $595, will receive a $250 credit towards a WISPA membership paid by our
company directly.

Yes, you read that right, a full one-year membership to WISPA! The credit
will be issued once ISPCON verifies the full-conference pass has been paid
for. So be one of the first 10 to respond to this offer and save money and
support a great organization - WISPA. So sign on quickly, only the first 10
will qualify!

WISPA BONUS #2

Any WISP signing up for a new WISPA membership or a Full-conference pass
will receive a $250 credit allowance towards any services we are offering
including Postini and the upcoming additional new service of hosted email;
POP3, IMAP, SMTP and Web Mail with 100mb mailbox storage. More info will be
coming out in the coming weeks and for the ISPCON conference.

We're looking forward to seeing you in Orlando! Sign up online today and
save when you use our unique customer code: PLUSS7

So if you are not taking advantage of this money saving WISPA promotion
before May 4, 2007, you can still download this PDF,
http://secureemailplus.com/ISPCONPASS.pdf and bringit with you to receive
the free Exhibits and Events Pass, or $100 Full-conferene discount when
you register on-site or online at: http://www.ispcon.com/register.php



Frank Muto
President/CEO
FSM Marketing Group, Inc.
www.secureemailplus.com
Toll Free: 800-246-7740

ISPCON Spring 2007
May 23-25 in Orlando, FL.
LaunchPad Pavilion J

P.S. Remember, you can only qualify by using our unique ISPCON code PLUSS7.

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Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread Tim Kerns

I believe the FCC has the authority to fine up to $10k per incident.


- Original Message - 
From: Smith, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?


how much is the fine ?

Where's it specified ?

(SERIOUS question.)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 5:40 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

Sure, if you can afford the FCC fine!
Please post when/where you do this. ;-)



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Smith, Rick
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:22 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

as a complete system.



Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere
and consider it certified ?



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?



Good point. They must have gotten FCC approval as a complete system over
a year ago.

Travis
Microserv

Frank Crawford wrote: 


Travis;
The router board also connects to a MiniPCI CM9 wireless board that
functions as a WiFi Access Point.

Page 5, Section 2, Paragraph 1 of trango's mesh manual, the trango atlas
radios are for backhaul.

hope this helps

frank


- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:25 PM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?


 


The Trango MESH box uses Trango radios (thus FCC certified) and
an RB532
for doing the routing. The RB is NOT providing any wireless
service.

Travis
Microserv

George Rogato wrote:
   


If the mesh box that is a MT box is legit and certified,
why not just
drop trango from the picture?
What is the purpose of trango ?


Dawn DiPietro wrote:
 


Frank,

Then I would suggest Rick go the Trango route.

Regards,
Dawn DiPietro

Frank Crawford wrote:
   


Trango's mesh box uses rb532 plus
daughter bd and mikrotik OS. It's
in thier
manual.
Frank

- Original Message - From: Dawn
DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: WISPA General List
wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:12 AM

Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi /
Wireless info ?



 


Rick,

I have to agree with Ralph on this one.
Since you have admitted on a
public list that you believe there are
no certified Mikrotik
systems out
there it would not be in your best
interest to start off with such a

   


system.

 


Regards,
Dawn DiPietro


ralph wrote:

   


The first thing I'd do in a case like
that, is use an FCC approved

 


system to

 


start with.  The fact that you don't
plan to leaves you open for

 


controversy

 


from the beginning.

Why would you do anything else?

Ralph

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Smith, Rick
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:44 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless
info ?

We're looking to provide service to a
school nearby, using
Mikrotik and
SR5 / SR9 cards.

Anyone have proposals to a school with
info in it addressing the
issue
of will you fry our children ?



 


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Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?

2007-04-28 Thread David E. Smith

George Rogato wrote:
The crux of this ongoing argument is did someone certify a MT, 
routerboard, cm9 system? Skip the already certified Trango components.
Dumb newbie question. Doesn't the certification apply to a complete 
package, including antenna and software?


Mikrotik's RouterOS software (and basically every other WISP-targeted 
Linux distribution) give you an easy way to change the radio power on 
the card (within the limits of the card itself). If you turn that power 
up too high, and hook up a really studly antenna, hey, you've just 
exceeded the power limits. Maybe on accident, maybe not. I don't think 
the FCC takes oops in lieu of fines, regardless of their sincerity.


I thought part of the whole point of certification was to (try to) 
ensure that the product, as a whole, doesn't exceed allowed EIRP.


You might be able to get that combination of hardware and software, and 
one specific antenna, all certified. And under the you can use other 
antennas as long as they have equal or less gain rule, that's a start. 
It's still a far cry from a completely certified system, though. There's 
just too many types of antennas out there, and too many radio cards. 
(Though that does bring up an interesting sideline - most of the good 
radio cards out there are using the same chipset. If we're going for 
components, would it be beneficial or even possible to certify the chip 
and not the whole radio card?)


I'll refrain from a rant on how the whole certification process seems 
designed to actively stifle ingenuity, but it sure is tempting.


David Smith
MVN.net

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Re: [WISPA] Post Card marketing

2007-04-28 Thread Mike Hammett
The printer told me that they would advise me to use labels instead of 
direct printing because the ink would run.  I mentioned using a laser 
printer.  Wouldn't the toner be fused to the card and thus not run?  If 
they're referring to the card itself running because of the heat of the 
laser printer, wouldn't an inkjet solve that?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 2:08 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Post Card marketing


Does anyone have examples of post card marketing they have done?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

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[WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-28 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
I know you're absolutely sick of hearing about it.

But here's someone who actually intends to stand up and do something about
CALEA.   WISPA needs to join this fight.  If you want these people
supporting WISPA, support them!

www.wispa.org

Will WISPA actively seek to defend small networks - most of which will be
wireless - from being simply shut down becasue they can't comply with
mandates designed for telephone companies?

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Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-28 Thread George Rogato

Who is that someone?
Why does wispa want to take an antagonistic stance towards legal high 
tech wiretapping?


Isn't legal wiretapping essential to law enforcement?

The only thing I can think of is to seek funds from the feds to 
implement this.


George

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

I know you're absolutely sick of hearing about it.

But here's someone who actually intends to stand up and do something about
CALEA.   WISPA needs to join this fight.  If you want these people
supporting WISPA, support them!

www.wispa.org

Will WISPA actively seek to defend small networks - most of which will be
wireless - from being simply shut down becasue they can't comply with
mandates designed for telephone companies?



--
George Rogato

Welcome to WISPA

www.wispa.org

http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] Post Card marketing

2007-04-28 Thread George Rogato

No, but postcard mania sends me lots of offers.
postcardmania.com


Mike Hammett wrote:

Does anyone have examples of post card marketing they have done?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
George Rogato

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Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-28 Thread Mark Koskenmaki

- Original Message - 
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page


 Who is that someone?

So, you won't read WISPA's home page?  It's the first article.  I have
wondered why nobody would even mention it...  So i finally did.

 Why does wispa want to take an antagonistic stance towards legal high
 tech wiretapping?

BECAUSE IT IS FREAKING WRONG, GEORGE, for the government to shift the cost
of law enforcement to specific business entities for its own convenience.
Why can't you see this?


 Isn't legal wiretapping essential to law enforcement?

Of course it is.  Where am I objecting to it?  Nowhere.  I object to an
extremely intrusive, expensive, and WRONG mandate on our industry.  And
further, I object to the fact that WISPA's not even slightly interested in
defending small operators from being wiped out.


 The only thing I can think of is to seek funds from the feds to
 implement this.

Bahhh.   No, George.  Just abandon the mandate that ISP's have to conduce LE
actions at their own expense.   Du.   So simple it boggles the mind.
Let law enforcement pay for it's own needs.  CALEA's mandate is NO DIFFERENT
from demanding gas stations fill every cop car for free, because they get
the privelege of making profit off motorists.

BTW, what's your schedule and whom did you hire to be on call 24/7/365 to
carry out LI?   Your registered phone must be answered, or you are not
compliant.

How's a one man operator supposed to do this?Even two people?There's
approximately  85 hours a week my business phone is not answered.   I'm
leaving for the coast on May 3rd and won't be back till the 7th.   That
increases the no response to more like 140 hours a week that nobody's
available during that time, since I don't expect my help to stay up late or
answer before 9 AM.

I am not a traditional ISP George.  I have no office.  I have no central
network facilty.   I own not a single server machine.   My access point
traffic does not go through anyplace except my bandwidth provider's server
room .   And the network expansion going on will end even that, and there
WILL BE NO LOCATION where all of my traffic goes, when provider 2 comes
online and is routed dynamically, and my network converts to a self-healing
mesh.

There's at least one lone voice in Congress asking for relief for small
operators who simply CANNOT do this as mandated.   Will YOU stand up for
those people and defend them?   They are  the future LIFEBLOOD of WISPA.
If you're ever going to have the numbers in WISPA, these are where the
numbers are.

Of course, you're management, and I'm just an outsider.



 George

 Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
  I know you're absolutely sick of hearing about it.
 
  But here's someone who actually intends to stand up and do something
about
  CALEA.   WISPA needs to join this fight.  If you want these people
  supporting WISPA, support them!
 
  www.wispa.org
 
  Will WISPA actively seek to defend small networks - most of which will
be
  wireless - from being simply shut down becasue they can't comply with
  mandates designed for telephone companies?
 

 -- 
 George Rogato

 Welcome to WISPA

 www.wispa.org

 http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] RE: [WISP] Post card marketing

2007-04-28 Thread Mark Koskenmaki

Hey, Rick, that's cool.   I plan on doing something similar, but with
doorhangers this summer.  College kids will be contracted to go drive around
and hang these on the doors of every farm, home, whatever, that appears to
be in range of an AP.

We expect to get real busy :)



- Original Message - 
From: Smith, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:37 PM
Subject: [WISPA] RE: [WISP] Post card marketing


We've printed ours on a color laser.   No problems mailing them.   We
got some returned due to no suitable mail receptacle, and the printing
all looked fine...



I attached the most recent we sent out.  No calls on it yet, but we
mailed it Thursday.



R



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:26 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WISP] Post card marketing



The printer told me that they would advise me to use labels instead of
direct printing because the ink would run.  I mentioned using a laser
printer.  Wouldn't the toner be fused to the card and thus not run?  If
they're referring to the card itself running because of the heat of the
laser printer, wouldn't an inkjet solve that?





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





- Original Message - 

From: Mike Hammett mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 2:07 PM

Subject: [WISP] Post card marketing



Does anyone have examples of post card marketing they have done?





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com












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Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-28 Thread George Rogato



Mark Koskenmaki wrote:


Why does wispa want to take an antagonistic stance towards legal high
tech wiretapping?


BECAUSE IT IS FREAKING WRONG, GEORGE, for the government to shift the cost
of law enforcement to specific business entities for its own convenience.
Why can't you see this?



When I was in the electrical contracting business, I was forced to have 
all kinds of fees laid upon me to conduct business.


This isp business is one of the least regulated with the least intrusive 
and least government costs.


If your moaning and groaning about what will probably turn out to be 
very low cost solutions, (an assumption) what are you going to do when 
it comes time to hire employees and then fall inline with those 
government regulations and costs?



--
George Rogato

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Re: [WISPA] need service in Bradenton, Fl

2007-04-28 Thread RickG

Now thats something to dream of!
-RickG

On 4/27/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Travis, and all.

If this were in MY area YOU could service that customer!  How cool is that.

I'm tellin ya, if you want a cell phone type value (or something at least
better than the average isp) we have to find a way to build national
coverage.  And that means cooperation with other wisps.
marlon

- Original Message -
From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 10:12 PM
Subject: [WISPA] need service in Bradenton, Fl


 Contact me offlist. -RickG
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Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-28 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
I won't defend all the crazy intrusions by government.

But this is not a fee to conduct business.   This isn't a tax.   This is a
mandate to carry out the functions of law enforcement for them, purely for
thier convenience.   It isn't even a regulation to enforce quality standards
on internet services, nor consumer protection from shoddy internet services,
nor is it even a protection from badly conducted wireless operations.
Theoretically, your contractor's license and so on were consumer
protection concerning the business you were in.   The effectiveness can be
debated, and this is not the place for that.

But, CALEA has NOTHING to do with providing internet services nor consumer
protection.  It is simply transferrence of law enforcement functions to YOU
to do at your own expense, by your own people and at YOUR OWN LIABILITY.
If you mix up someone's traffic, because someone made a typo, do you REALLY
think that you will be protected from the wrath of the legal eagles out to
get you?   Don't count on it.

And it is impossible for small operators to be in complete compliance.   And
it presents an obstacle to technological innovation and it presents MAJOR
obstacles to certtain types of desired network types, such as mesh.

There are many other ways for law enforcement to get what it needs.   Even
better would be a REAL law, written properly, and funded properly by
Congress, instead of this absurdity about information services and
telecommuncations services.   You know, of course, that this hybrid
'standing' is about as shaky as a sand castle on the beach.  It wont' be any
time before we're fully telecommuncations services and the mandates and
regulations and controls fly at us like vultures to roadkill or flies to a
cowpie.

It's a very small thing to support the notion that small ISP's be exempt for
obvious reasons.  But you won't even do that?  Why the bloody hell not?
What have you got against them?



- Original Message - 
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page




 Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

  Why does wispa want to take an antagonistic stance towards legal high
  tech wiretapping?
 
  BECAUSE IT IS FREAKING WRONG, GEORGE, for the government to shift the
cost
  of law enforcement to specific business entities for its own
convenience.
  Why can't you see this?
 

 When I was in the electrical contracting business, I was forced to have
 all kinds of fees laid upon me to conduct business.

 This isp business is one of the least regulated with the least intrusive
 and least government costs.

 If your moaning and groaning about what will probably turn out to be
 very low cost solutions, (an assumption) what are you going to do when
 it comes time to hire employees and then fall inline with those
 government regulations and costs?


 -- 
 George Rogato

 Welcome to WISPA

 www.wispa.org

 http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-28 Thread Edward H. Winters
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:17:17 -0700
George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
 
  Why does wispa want to take an antagonistic stance towards legal high
  tech wiretapping?
  
  BECAUSE IT IS FREAKING WRONG, GEORGE, for the government to shift the cost
  of law enforcement to specific business entities for its own convenience.
  Why can't you see this?
  
 
 When I was in the electrical contracting business, I was forced to have 
 all kinds of fees laid upon me to conduct business.
 
 This isp business is one of the least regulated with the least intrusive 
 and least government costs.
 
 If your moaning and groaning about what will probably turn out to be 
 very low cost solutions, (an assumption) what are you going to do when 
 it comes time to hire employees and then fall inline with those 
 government regulations and costs?
 
 
In my case with less than 30 subs, one network operator (me), and tiny budget, 
there is no way i can afford even a low cost solution. let alone 4 or 5 
employees.

So unless some miracle occurs, I will close shop on May 12.

Mission accomplished  one less little guy in the mix.

Ed
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Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-28 Thread George Rogato

How do you know what the costs are Ed?
George

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Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-28 Thread Edward H. Winters
George, 

From talking to equipment manufactures, law enforcement, and trusted
third party providers.

I would roll my own, but even if i had a working intercept device
(opencalea's tap program) it would still need to forward the 
collected data to the TTP for mediation.

Ed

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:53:48 -0700
George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 How do you know what the costs are Ed?
 George
 
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Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-28 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
Because, like you, he can read the rules, and come to the conclusion that he
simply cannot find a way to do everythign required.  I can't either.

You have safe harbor only if you're using an industry standard, and
nobody can point us to one.   Unless we have some kind pre-packaged setup,
lots of people, including me, have absolutely NO IDEA how to do all the data
manipulation and whatnot that's supposedly required.

the only pre-packaged solutions are hundreds of dollars a month with a
sizeable setup up front or 10, 20, or more thousands of dollars for a
turnkey box that does at least some of the functions required.

OpenCalea offers nothing to people in my shoes.

We're all of what, three weeks from having to file that we're in compliance,
and we can't point to anything yet?   Where's this cheap solution going to
magically spring from, and be trouble free and bug free and compliant?

Face reality, it's not here and won't be.  Instead, we're goin to string
along, making promises and statements that we're going to comply, while we
still have no price tag, much less cash in the bank to pay this.   The
longer we go, the less time there is to develop alternatives to some
announced standard mechanism of for doing stuff, or some kind of standard
software..

We're flying blind, here.   None of us small guys have lawers, consultants,
or super techies who can just do this, much less implement the time
constraints and 24/7/365 aspects, etc.  And we're wondering why the only
organization devoted to our industry won't even appeal on our behalf to the
authorities, and try to authoritatively explain to them they've gone far
beyond the capabilities of most of the target networks.



- Original Message - 
From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page


 How do you know what the costs are Ed?
 George

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Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-28 Thread Mark Koskenmaki
don't forget, you can't charge LEA for the TTP's services.  You may pay that
TTP for years and they never do a single thing for you.




- Original Message - 
From: Edward H. Winters [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page


 George,

 From talking to equipment manufactures, law enforcement, and trusted
 third party providers.

 I would roll my own, but even if i had a working intercept device
 (opencalea's tap program) it would still need to forward the
 collected data to the TTP for mediation.

 Ed

 On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:53:48 -0700
 George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  How do you know what the costs are Ed?
  George
 
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Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-28 Thread George Rogato

Have you heard actual costs yet?


Edward H. Winters wrote:
George, 


From talking to equipment manufactures, law enforcement, and trusted

third party providers.

I would roll my own, but even if i had a working intercept device
(opencalea's tap program) it would still need to forward the 
collected data to the TTP for mediation.


Ed

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:53:48 -0700
George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


How do you know what the costs are Ed?
George



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Re: [WISPA] RE: [WISP] Post card marketing

2007-04-28 Thread Travis Johnson




I have done both (door hangers and postcards). The postcards are much
more effective than door hangers, and much cheaper overall. You have to
offer a "special discount" on the postcard... like "$50 off
installation when you mention this card".

Travis
Microserv

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

  Hey, Rick, that's cool.   I plan on doing something similar, but with
doorhangers this summer.  College kids will be contracted to go drive around
and hang these on the doors of every farm, home, whatever, that appears to
be in range of an AP.

We expect to get real busy :)



- Original Message - 
From: "Smith, Rick" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:37 PM
Subject: [WISPA] RE: [WISP] Post card marketing


We've printed ours on a color laser.   No problems mailing them.   We
got some returned due to "no suitable mail receptacle", and the printing
all looked fine...



I attached the most recent we sent out.  No calls on it yet, but we
mailed it Thursday.



R



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:26 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WISP] Post card marketing



The printer told me that they would advise me to use labels instead of
direct printing because the ink would run.  I mentioned using a laser
printer.  Wouldn't the toner be fused to the card and thus not run?  If
they're referring to the card itself running because of the heat of the
laser printer, wouldn't an inkjet solve that?





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





- Original Message - 

From: Mike Hammett mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 2:07 PM

Subject: [WISP] Post card marketing



Does anyone have examples of post card marketing they have done?





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com












  
  
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Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....

2007-04-28 Thread Edward H. Winters
nothing concrete, but i will not sign a nondisclosure agreement 
with any of them at the moment either. 

i've been told everything from a few hundred a month, to thousands
for the subscription, with setup (initial testing) fees ranging 
from around one thousand up to ten thousand.

Ed

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 21:39:22 -0700
George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Have you heard actual costs yet?
 
 
 Edward H. Winters wrote:
  George, 
  
 From talking to equipment manufactures, law enforcement, and trusted
  third party providers.
  
  I would roll my own, but even if i had a working intercept device
  (opencalea's tap program) it would still need to forward the 
  collected data to the TTP for mediation.
  
  Ed
  
  On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:53:48 -0700
  George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  How do you know what the costs are Ed?
  George
 
 
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Re: [WISPA] RE: [WISP] Post card marketing

2007-04-28 Thread Chad Halsted

I agree, door hangers have been nothing but a complete waste of time
for us.  However, yard signs (realty sign size) has worked very well.
They are a constant reminder, door hangers get thrown in the trash.

On 4/28/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have done both (door hangers and postcards). The postcards are much more
effective than door hangers, and much cheaper overall. You have to offer a
special discount on the postcard... like $50 off installation when you
mention this card.

Travis
Microserv


Mark Koskenmaki wrote:
Hey, Rick, that's cool. I plan on doing something similar, but
with

doorhangers this summer. College kids will be contracted to go drive

around

and hang these on the doors of every farm, home, whatever, that

appears to

be in range of an AP.

We expect to get real busy :)



-

Original Message -

From: Smith, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA

General List wireless@wispa.org

Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:37

PM

Subject: [WISPA] RE: [WISP] Post card marketing


We've printed ours on a

color laser. No problems mailing them. We

got some returned due to no

suitable mail receptacle, and the printing

all looked fine...



I attached

the most recent we sent out. No calls on it yet, but we

mailed it

Thursday.




R



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf

Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Saturday,

April 28, 2007 9:26 PM

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WISP] Post card

marketing




The printer told me that they would advise me to use labels

instead of

direct printing because the ink would run. I mentioned using a

laser

printer. Wouldn't the toner be fused to the card and thus not run?

If

they're referring to the card itself running because of the heat of

the

laser printer, wouldn't an inkjet solve that?





-
Mike

Hammett

Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





-

Original Message -


From: Mike Hammett

mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Saturday, April

28, 2007 2:07 PM


Subject: [WISP] Post card marketing



Does anyone have

examples of post card marketing they have done?






-
Mike

Hammett

Intelligent Computing

Solutions

http://www.ics-il.com













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The Computer Works
Conway, AR
www.tcworks.net
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