Re: [WISPA] 700 MHz decision at FCC
- Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 700 MHz decision at FCC Justin... I am aware of the problems revolving around the inability to talk to each other via voice radio. I would tend to agree that frequency coordination seems to be a terrible issue. The cited reasons for this was the 9-11 problems with coordination of emergency services, and NO hurricane problems. Nobody blew up the NO radio communications facilities. They just died because they lacked any means of self support when the power went out, and the phone and the agencies weren't talking to each other, and didn't seem to know who to talk to for what.That's just the outside perception, at least. Your outside perceptions are completely wrong. But as far as I can tell, this isn't about talking to each other, it's about building a digital network - IP based, perhaps? If you're not sure what the broadband network is for, how could you have already called the plan absurd? I'm still confused as to why we can't have fire department radios that can talk to the cops, ambulances, and whoever else. A lack of spectrum doesn't seem to be issue, rather it appears to be political boundaries between each department, and no mechanism to deal with widespread communications problems. Completely wrong. Cyren Call wanted 30 mhz to build a nationwide network.I'm just not cognizant of how this is going to somehow magically solve the problem with agencies having turf wars, and people either not following, or not haveing a rational plan for dealing with widespread disasters. I'm welcome to explanations of how things are going to improve with a national digital network that's subject to all the same issues as telco outages, broadband outages, etc, etc... ??? I wouldn't begin to know where to start to explain it to you. I don't believe you have any notion whatsoever of what the issues and challenges are of public safety communications that are being addressed. If you wanted to learn, you could start with the PSWAC report ... it's public and on-line. But what amazed me is how you conclude with no knowledge that the public safety broadband communications plans are absurd and can't possibly work. Why would you jump out and slam a field that you know nothing about? Yet you wonder where people get the notion from that you're anti-gov. Why not just say excuse me on that one and we'll move on. Rich - Original Message - From: Justin Comroe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 700 MHz decision at FCC - Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 700 MHz decision at FCC I hate to say it, but it looks like the FCC is going to squander massive opportunity, and instead, settle for some money... (sigh). This nationwide broadband network for public safety is absurd. Why would you say this? I served on the technology committee that drafted the Public Safety Wireless Advisory Committee (PSWAC) report to the FCC/NTIA. The initiative was a response to the first world trade center bombing in 93 when public safety agencies from all surrounding communities converted on South Manhattan ... and yet the public safety officers could more easily throw stones / rocks at each other than communicate on their radios. In PSWAC we focused on compatibility (I know you think it's an evil, innovation stifling word), but of course the difference in frequency assignment of every agencies equipment was equally problematic. A nationwide allocation of compatible equipment seems eminently logical as the cleanest solution to the dilema. Of course, little improved following the later 2001 trade center bombing, and money didn't get ponied up for replacement equipment for a long time (not until the 2006 democratic congress identified this as one of their first 100 hrs issues [the connection being that the 9/11 commission identified this as a lingering unaddressed problem that public safety communications had yet to be funded]), but this is essentially the logic behind the 4.9GHz allocation -- and all allocations for public safety since PSWAC. Yet another means of communication that won't be around when it's needed, because it'll be down or something. Why would you say this? Public Safety takes care of their radio equipment as well as they take care of their firearms and vehicles. In fact, I've heard that a patrolman gets docked more $ for losing his 2-way radio than for losing his gun! Any failure of a public safety communications radio network is an automatic inquiry / investigation event. Both your comments appear to be slaps at public safety communications with
Re: [WISPA] EarthLink studying muni Wi-Fi business
WOW! This is the smartest thing that Earthlink could possibly do. Are they finally starting to recognize the limitations of Wi-Fi technology or are they simply starting to understand how to properly cost-model Muni Wi-Fi? jack Matt Liotta wrote: ATLANTA - EarthLink Inc. said Thursday it will study the performance of its municipal wireless Internet networks in four cities — Philadelphia, New Orleans and California's Anaheim and Milpitas — before deciding how to move forward with similar Wi-Fi networks elsewhere. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070426/ap_on_hi_te/earthlink_wi_fi -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification Assistance for Wireless Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] ATTENTION: Board Applicatins Due MAY 1
OK EVERYONE, it is CRUNCH TIME! If you have interest in being on the WISPA Board, spend a few minutes this weekend and fill out the application below. We will stop accepting applications at Midnight, May 1st, 2007. The WISPA Board Election schedule has been set. All interested members need to go to http://nominations.wispa.org/ and fill out the application for the ballot. We encourage and expect to get a very good response to this year's call for directors. We have grown substantially in the last six months and WISPA is maturing into the lead association for the WISP community. Applications are due on May 1st, so don't procrastinate. Further information about the election process and the responsibilities of the board can be found in the bylaws at http://www.wispa.org/?page_id=4 THE NOMINATION ELECTION PROCESS Here are the important dates for those of you following the election, running for a board position and who will be taking part in the election process. May 1st, 2007 - Applications due. May 14, 2007 - Qualified nominees compiled and submitted to the standing Board of Directors. Nominee information made available via the WISPA Web site for member review. June 15, 2007 - Election of new Board members. All members are eligible to run for a board position. Only Principal and Vendor members may vote for board positions. Only one vote per company is allowed. Instructions and credentials for voting will be sent to each member company via email prior to election. If you are a member company and do not receive instructions for voting or credentials it is your responsibility to request such information by emailing [EMAIL PROTECTED] or calling 618-244-6868 and requesting help getting your instructions and credentials for voting. UNDERSTANDING THE ROLE OF THE BOARD The role of the board is to set policies that will ensure that it fulfills its legal and professional responsibilities to members. The board sets the strategic direction and leadership tone for the organization. The WISPA Board of Directors is comprised of seven (7). Each director shall serve for a term of one (1) year and until his or her successor is elected and qualified, or until such director's earlier death, resignation, incapacity to serve, or removal. All paid WISPA members are eligible for board positions, however the majority of the board will be WISPA Principal Members. Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
as a complete system. Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Good point. They must have gotten FCC approval as a complete system over a year ago. Travis Microserv Frank Crawford wrote: Travis; The router board also connects to a MiniPCI CM9 wireless board that functions as a WiFi Access Point. Page 5, Section 2, Paragraph 1 of trango's mesh manual, the trango atlas radios are for backhaul. hope this helps frank - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? The Trango MESH box uses Trango radios (thus FCC certified) and an RB532 for doing the routing. The RB is NOT providing any wireless service. Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: If the mesh box that is a MT box is legit and certified, why not just drop trango from the picture? What is the purpose of trango ? Dawn DiPietro wrote: Frank, Then I would suggest Rick go the Trango route. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Frank Crawford wrote: Trango's mesh box uses rb532 plus daughter bd and mikrotik OS. It's in thier manual. Frank - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:12 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Rick, I have to agree with Ralph on this one. Since you have admitted on a public list that you believe there are no certified Mikrotik systems out there it would not be in your best interest to start off with such a system. Regards, Dawn DiPietro ralph wrote: The first thing I'd do in a case like that, is use an FCC approved system to start with. The fact that you don't plan to leaves you open for controversy from the beginning. Why would you do anything else? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? We're looking to provide service to a school nearby, using Mikrotik and SR5 / SR9 cards.
RE: [WISPA] WISP Peering
Travis, a little perspective...you're in a technology hot-bed area of the country! Marlon's not. MUCH tougher for Marlon, in perspective, to get where he's gotten to today. There's probably only one school / one high school in Marlon's coverage area ? Odessa ain't big. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering Well, I seem to be holding my own ground pretty well... and I DON'T turn customers over to my competition... over 65 towers in operation, over 3,000 wireless subs, hundreds of DSL subs, almost 50 fiber subs (banks, hospitals, insurance, etc.)... and NO outside investors, stock holders, or any long-term debt whatsoever. :) (OT: Our annual gross revenue has been within 1% of the previous year for the past 4 years. However, I have managed to decrease our expenses by 10% every year. While this doesn't seem like a lot, realize we are a multi-million dollar company. There is EASY money to be made by just cutting expenses. Things like shopping around for better CC rates, better insurance rates, cheaper bandwidth, etc.) Also, if you leased your equipment, you could put the new tower up for less than $200 per month for EVERYTHING. ;) rant Call it what you will Marlon, but I believe you started your wireless operation around 1997 (going off your website). In 1997 we started our wireless service as well. Today we have over 3,000 connected wireless subs and are growing at over 100 per month. We have been profitable since our first year in business. This will be _another_ record breaking year for us. We have a backbone uptime of 99.99% over the last 2 years (including scheduled maintenance). Our wireless subs see a 99.9% uptime (including maintenance, interferance issues, blown AP's, etc). We deliver over 150Mbps of internet traffic during business hours using three diverse providers (DS3 via Qwest fiber, OC3 via seperate Qwest fiber, Level3 via fastethernet via seperate fiber via seperate NOC). We provide service to 8 entire school districts (out of a possible 10 in our entire 25,000 square mile coverage area). /rant So, if I'm short sighted and you are not, why is my company 10x the size and making 10x the profit when both of us started at the same time? Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering Why wouldn't you just put up your own AP's and service the same area rather than give that customer away to the competition? Spectrum congestion. Cashflow Speed. Expanded coverage, very quickly, for no money. I would spend $5k and put up my own tower before I turn a potential customer away to the competition. I've done it many times over the years and it has always paid off. Once one person is connected, they tell their neighbors about it. Pretty soon an AP that was put up for a single customer has 10 or 20 customers on it. Um, the competitors ALREADY have networks in place! Doesn't seem to make business sense to me. Plus when they need tech support, how do you troubleshoot the competitors AP's? How do you do RF link tests and packet loss tests at 10:00PM when the customer is on the phone? I call the competitor on his cell phone. Just like he does with me. Your attidude, while pretty typical, is very short sighted. The more we work together to keep the airways clean and maximize the investments, the better all of our networks run and the faster we can grow. It's that silly ol' Together we stand thing. I was watching a group of kids play Red Rover the other day. I had to wonder how that game would turn out if the kids all tried to stand there and hold their OWN ground instead of working as a team. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Two of my competitors just sat down for lunch and worked out a network sharing agreement. It's a handshake deal at this point though. Basically we carved up a hilltop laying out coverage zones for each of us, and we set a price for using each other's ap's. Marlon Hey I think thats a good thing you've done there Marlon, getting along and even doing business with your competitors. Yeah. It's something that the three of us have already been doing for a couple of years. We sell on each other's ap's at the same price. The only catch is that each of us has to live under the bw, and bit cap rules of the other guys network vs. our own. But that seems perfectly fair to me. We
Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering
Marlon's main city is Odessa, WA. Within 65 miles is Spokane, WA that has hundreds of thousands of people, plus all the suburbs. It seems he is "short sighted" by not expanding into that market 6-8 years ago. Sixty miles is nothing... I have a single 73 mile shot that has been running 100% uptime for almost 2 years. Travis Microserv Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I have to come to Marlon's defense a bit here.The idaho falls / pocatello area has DRAMATICALLY more people than the central washington wasteland Marlon serves. You serve the populated areas of Bonneville, Bingham and Bannock Counties, if I estimate your coverage. This approaches a quarter million people, at least for the three counties, it does. Marlon's town is about 1000 people, Lincoln and Adams County together have less than 30K people, and his main competition is a utility which is using it's financial might to subsidize buried fiber to every home in Grant County. I have seen Marlon's territory, driven through it, and seen his "operation". It's a collection of small community markets. I would say that in spite of being small, he probably has considerably higher market share than you do, for the places he covers. None of this is to disparage anyone. But you can't compare apples and oranges like that and have it make any sense at all. I suspect you'd struggle mightily to adapt to marlon's situation... and vice versa. Let's not go off on each other here.. We have much better targets to aim at. - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering Well, I seem to be holding my own ground pretty well... and I DON'T turn customers over to my competition... over 65 towers in operation, over 3,000 wireless subs, hundreds of DSL subs, almost 50 fiber subs (banks, hospitals, insurance, etc.)... and NO outside investors, stock holders, or any long-term debt whatsoever. :) (OT: Our annual gross revenue has been within 1% of the previous year for the past 4 years. However, I have managed to decrease our expenses by 10% every year. While this doesn't seem like a lot, realize we are a multi-million dollar company. There is EASY money to be made by just cutting expenses. Things like shopping around for better CC rates, better insurance rates, cheaper bandwidth, etc.) Also, if you leased your equipment, you could put the new tower up for less than $200 per month for EVERYTHING. ;) rant Call it what you will Marlon, but I believe you started your wireless operation around 1997 (going off your website). In 1997 we started our wireless service as well. Today we have over 3,000 connected wireless subs and are growing at over 100 per month. We have been profitable since our first year in business. This will be _another_ record breaking year for us. We have a backbone uptime of 99.99% over the last 2 years (including scheduled maintenance). Our wireless subs see a 99.9% uptime (including maintenance, interferance issues, blown AP's, etc). We deliver over 150Mbps of internet traffic during business hours using three diverse providers (DS3 via Qwest fiber, OC3 via seperate Qwest fiber, Level3 via fastethernet via seperate fiber via seperate NOC). We provide service to 8 entire school districts (out of a possible 10 in our entire 25,000 square mile coverage area). /rant So, if I'm short sighted and you are not, why is my company 10x the size and making 10x the profit when both of us started at the same time? Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering Why wouldn't you just put up your own AP's and service the same area rather than give that customer away to the competition? Spectrum congestion. Cashflow Speed. Expanded coverage, very quickly, for no money. I would spend $5k and put up my own tower before I turn a "potential" customer away to the competition. I've done it many times over the years and it has always paid off. Once one person is connected, they tell their neighbors about it. Pretty soon an AP that was put up for a single customer has 10 or 20 customers on it. Um, the competitors ALREADY have networks in place! Doesn't seem to make business sense to me. Plus when they need tech support, how do you troubleshoot the competitors AP's? How do you do RF link tests and packet loss tests at 10:00PM when the customer is on the phone? I call the competitor on his cell phone. Just like he does with me. Your attidude, while pretty typical, is very short sighted. The more we work together to keep the airways clean and maximize the investments, the better
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
Rick, Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was certified system. I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions about certification. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC.
Out of curiosity...does this mean I can just email blast the list with events that I organize? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sascha Meinrath Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC. FYI: Contact: Sascha Meinrath Executive Director CUWiN Foundation [EMAIL PROTECTED] 217-278-3933 x31 INTERNATIONAL SUMMIT TO ADDRESS FUTURE OF BROADBAND -- Community Technology Leaders from Six Continents to Participate -- Champaign-Urbana, I.L., April 18 -- The CUWiN Foundation and the Center for Community Informatics (CCI) will host the International Summit for Community Wireless Networks (http://WirelessSummit.org) from May 18-20, 2007 at Loyola College in Columbia, Maryland. The summit is the largest gathering of wireless network developers, technology and policy experts, and community organizers working to build universal, low-cost broadband networks around the world. We are proud to host an event that brings together technologists and activists committed to universal access to informatics, said Marco Figueiredo, CCI Director. The International Summit for Community Wireless Networks explores the opportunities and challenges facing the growing movement to build community and municipal broadband networks, said Sascha Meinrath, co-founder and Executive Director of CUWiN. This event showcases cutting-edge technologies and develops political strategies to increase digital inclusion. Since the first National Summit for Community Wireless Networks in 2004, over 300 Community Internet and municipal broadband projects have sprung up in the United States alone. The Summit will focus on how these networks can better serve their target populations, the policies needed to support broader deployment of community wireless systems, and the latest technological and software innovations. Presenters at previous summits have included FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein, Jim Baller of the Baller Herbst Law Group, Annie Collins of Fiber for Our Future, Mark Cooper of the Consumer Federation of America, Harold Feld of Media Access Project, Robert W. McChesney of Free Press, Matt Rantanen of Tribal Digital Village, Greg Richardson of Civitium LLC, Paul Smith of the Center for Neighborhood Technologies, Jim Snider of the New America Foundation, Dana Spiegel of NYCwireless, Esme Vos of Muniwireless.com and many other luminaries. High-speed broadband access is the electricity of the 21st century, yet many rural and poorer urban communities are being left off the grid, said Ben Scott, policy director of Free Press, the DC-based policy think-tank. The innovators and organizers at the International Summit for Community Wireless Networks are blazing the trail to make broadband affordable and available to everyone. About CUWiN (http://www.cuwin.net) The CUWiN Foundation is a world-renowned coalition of wireless developers and community volunteers committed to providing low-cost, do-it-yourself, community-controlled alternatives to contemporary broadband models. CUWiN is fiscally sponsored by Grassroots.org, a non-profit 501c3. CUWiN's mission is to develop decentralized, community-owned networks that foster democratic cultures and local content. Through advocacy and through our commitment to open source technology, CUWiN supports organic networks that grow to meet the needs of their communities. About CCI (http://cci.cs.loyola.edu) The Center for Community Informatics engages Loyola College's students, faculty and staff in supporting the creation and deployment of informatics tools for community empowerment. CCI develops the Community Telecenter Free Software Toolset; promotes awareness events for the Loyola College community; offer courses in Community Informatics; promotes Digital Inclusion Conferences; researches and develops human-friendly technologies to facilitate inclusion in the New Society of Knowledge; and, evaluates, documents and develops sustainable models for Universal Access to Informatics. # # # -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
Rick, There is no way you would be legit if you decided to do this on your own. Considering the conversation that went on a few weeks back mentioned that people used Mikrotik systems because of the feature set and not cost why would you not buy an already certified system. To be safe I would go with a system that is already certified instead of chancing it. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Dawn DiPietro wrote: Rick, Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was certified system. I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions about certification. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC.
Charles, How did I know you would make this an issue? ;-) Regards, Dawn DiPietro Charles Wu wrote: Out of curiosity...does this mean I can just email blast the list with events that I organize? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sascha Meinrath Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC. FYI: Contact: Sascha Meinrath Executive Director CUWiN Foundation [EMAIL PROTECTED] 217-278-3933 x31 INTERNATIONAL SUMMIT TO ADDRESS FUTURE OF BROADBAND -- Community Technology Leaders from Six Continents to Participate -- Champaign-Urbana, I.L., April 18 -- The CUWiN Foundation and the Center for Community Informatics (CCI) will host the International Summit for Community Wireless Networks (http://WirelessSummit.org) from May 18-20, 2007 at Loyola College in Columbia, Maryland. The summit is the largest gathering of wireless network developers, technology and policy experts, and community organizers working to build universal, low-cost broadband networks around the world. We are proud to host an event that brings together technologists and activists committed to universal access to informatics, said Marco Figueiredo, CCI Director. The International Summit for Community Wireless Networks explores the opportunities and challenges facing the growing movement to build community and municipal broadband networks, said Sascha Meinrath, co-founder and Executive Director of CUWiN. This event showcases cutting-edge technologies and develops political strategies to increase digital inclusion. Since the first National Summit for Community Wireless Networks in 2004, over 300 Community Internet and municipal broadband projects have sprung up in the United States alone. The Summit will focus on how these networks can better serve their target populations, the policies needed to support broader deployment of community wireless systems, and the latest technological and software innovations. Presenters at previous summits have included FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein, Jim Baller of the Baller Herbst Law Group, Annie Collins of Fiber for Our Future, Mark Cooper of the Consumer Federation of America, Harold Feld of Media Access Project, Robert W. McChesney of Free Press, Matt Rantanen of Tribal Digital Village, Greg Richardson of Civitium LLC, Paul Smith of the Center for Neighborhood Technologies, Jim Snider of the New America Foundation, Dana Spiegel of NYCwireless, Esme Vos of Muniwireless.com and many other luminaries. High-speed broadband access is the electricity of the 21st century, yet many rural and poorer urban communities are being left off the grid, said Ben Scott, policy director of Free Press, the DC-based policy think-tank. The innovators and organizers at the International Summit for Community Wireless Networks are blazing the trail to make broadband affordable and available to everyone. About CUWiN (http://www.cuwin.net) The CUWiN Foundation is a world-renowned coalition of wireless developers and community volunteers committed to providing low-cost, do-it-yourself, community-controlled alternatives to contemporary broadband models. CUWiN is fiscally sponsored by Grassroots.org, a non-profit 501c3. CUWiN's mission is to develop decentralized, community-owned networks that foster democratic cultures and local content. Through advocacy and through our commitment to open source technology, CUWiN supports organic networks that grow to meet the needs of their communities. About CCI (http://cci.cs.loyola.edu) The Center for Community Informatics engages Loyola College's students, faculty and staff in supporting the creation and deployment of informatics tools for community empowerment. CCI develops the Community Telecenter Free Software Toolset; promotes awareness events for the Loyola College community; offer courses in Community Informatics; promotes Digital Inclusion Conferences; researches and develops human-friendly technologies to facilitate inclusion in the New Society of Knowledge; and, evaluates, documents and develops sustainable models for Universal Access to Informatics. # # # -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC.
Charles has a point... vendor members pay for the privilege... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 10:27 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC. Charles, How did I know you would make this an issue? ;-) Regards, Dawn DiPietro Charles Wu wrote: Out of curiosity...does this mean I can just email blast the list with events that I organize? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sascha Meinrath Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC. FYI: Contact: Sascha Meinrath Executive Director CUWiN Foundation [EMAIL PROTECTED] 217-278-3933 x31 INTERNATIONAL SUMMIT TO ADDRESS FUTURE OF BROADBAND -- Community Technology Leaders from Six Continents to Participate -- Champaign-Urbana, I.L., April 18 -- The CUWiN Foundation and the Center for Community Informatics (CCI) will host the International Summit for Community Wireless Networks (http://WirelessSummit.org) from May 18-20, 2007 at Loyola College in Columbia, Maryland. The summit is the largest gathering of wireless network developers, technology and policy experts, and community organizers working to build universal, low-cost broadband networks around the world. We are proud to host an event that brings together technologists and activists committed to universal access to informatics, said Marco Figueiredo, CCI Director. The International Summit for Community Wireless Networks explores the opportunities and challenges facing the growing movement to build community and municipal broadband networks, said Sascha Meinrath, co-founder and Executive Director of CUWiN. This event showcases cutting-edge technologies and develops political strategies to increase digital inclusion. Since the first National Summit for Community Wireless Networks in 2004, over 300 Community Internet and municipal broadband projects have sprung up in the United States alone. The Summit will focus on how these networks can better serve their target populations, the policies needed to support broader deployment of community wireless systems, and the latest technological and software innovations. Presenters at previous summits have included FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein, Jim Baller of the Baller Herbst Law Group, Annie Collins of Fiber for Our Future, Mark Cooper of the Consumer Federation of America, Harold Feld of Media Access Project, Robert W. McChesney of Free Press, Matt Rantanen of Tribal Digital Village, Greg Richardson of Civitium LLC, Paul Smith of the Center for Neighborhood Technologies, Jim Snider of the New America Foundation, Dana Spiegel of NYCwireless, Esme Vos of Muniwireless.com and many other luminaries. High-speed broadband access is the electricity of the 21st century, yet many rural and poorer urban communities are being left off the grid, said Ben Scott, policy director of Free Press, the DC-based policy think-tank. The innovators and organizers at the International Summit for Community Wireless Networks are blazing the trail to make broadband affordable and available to everyone. About CUWiN (http://www.cuwin.net) The CUWiN Foundation is a world-renowned coalition of wireless developers and community volunteers committed to providing low-cost, do-it-yourself, community-controlled alternatives to contemporary broadband models. CUWiN is fiscally sponsored by Grassroots.org, a non-profit 501c3. CUWiN's mission is to develop decentralized, community-owned networks that foster democratic cultures and local content. Through advocacy and through our commitment to open source technology, CUWiN supports organic networks that grow to meet the needs of their communities. About CCI (http://cci.cs.loyola.edu) The Center for Community Informatics engages Loyola College's students, faculty and staff in supporting the creation and deployment of informatics tools for community empowerment. CCI develops the Community Telecenter Free Software Toolset; promotes awareness events for the Loyola College community; offer courses in Community Informatics; promotes Digital Inclusion Conferences; researches and develops human-friendly technologies to facilitate inclusion in the New Society of Knowledge; and, evaluates, documents and develops sustainable models for Universal Access to Informatics. # # # -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering
Travis, Congratulations on your immense prosperity, your unrivaled brilliance, your incredible talent and your uncanny business acumen. I think I also saw your picture recently in People Magazine's World's Most Beautiful People - 2006 article. jack Travis Johnson wrote: Marlon's main city is Odessa, WA. Within 65 miles is Spokane, WA that has hundreds of thousands of people, plus all the suburbs. It seems he is short sighted by not expanding into that market 6-8 years ago. Sixty miles is nothing... I have a single 73 mile shot that has been running 100% uptime for almost 2 years. Travis Microserv Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I have to come to Marlon's defense a bit here.The idaho falls / pocatello area has DRAMATICALLY more people than the central washington wasteland Marlon serves. You serve the populated areas of Bonneville, Bingham and Bannock Counties, if I estimate your coverage. This approaches a quarter million people, at least for the three counties, it does. Marlon's town is about 1000 people, Lincoln and Adams County together have less than 30K people, and his main competition is a utility which is using it's financial might to subsidize buried fiber to every home in Grant County. I have seen Marlon's territory, driven through it, and seen his operation. It's a collection of small community markets. I would say that in spite of being small, he probably has considerably higher market share than you do, for the places he covers. None of this is to disparage anyone. But you can't compare apples and oranges like that and have it make any sense at all. I suspect you'd struggle mightily to adapt to marlon's situation... and vice versa. Let's not go off on each other here.. We have much better targets to aim at. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering Well, I seem to be holding my own ground pretty well... and I DON'T turn customers over to my competition... over 65 towers in operation, over 3,000 wireless subs, hundreds of DSL subs, almost 50 fiber subs (banks, hospitals, insurance, etc.)... and NO outside investors, stock holders, or any long-term debt whatsoever. :) (OT: Our annual gross revenue has been within 1% of the previous year for the past 4 years. However, I have managed to decrease our expenses by 10% every year. While this doesn't seem like a lot, realize we are a multi-million dollar company. There is EASY money to be made by just cutting expenses. Things like shopping around for better CC rates, better insurance rates, cheaper bandwidth, etc.) Also, if you leased your equipment, you could put the new tower up for less than $200 per month for EVERYTHING. ;) rant Call it what you will Marlon, but I believe you started your wireless operation around 1997 (going off your website). In 1997 we started our wireless service as well. Today we have over 3,000 connected wireless subs and are growing at over 100 per month. We have been profitable since our first year in business. This will be _another_ record breaking year for us. We have a backbone uptime of 99.99% over the last 2 years (including scheduled maintenance). Our wireless subs see a 99.9% uptime (including maintenance, interferance issues, blown AP's, etc). We deliver over 150Mbps of internet traffic during business hours using three diverse providers (DS3 via Qwest fiber, OC3 via seperate Qwest fiber, Level3 via fastethernet via seperate fiber via seperate NOC). We provide service to 8 entire school districts (out of a possible 10 in our entire 25,000 square mile coverage area). /rant So, if I'm short sighted and you are not, why is my company 10x the size and making 10x the profit when both of us started at the same time? Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering Why wouldn't you just put up your own AP's and service the same area rather than give that customer away to the competition? Spectrum congestion. Cashflow Speed. Expanded coverage, very quickly, for no money. I would spend $5k and put up my own tower before I turn a potential customer away to the competition. I've done it many times over the years and it has always paid off. Once one person is connected, they tell their neighbors about it. Pretty soon an AP that was put up for a single customer has 10 or 20 customers on it. Um, the competitors ALREADY have networks in place! Doesn't seem to make business sense to me. Plus when they need tech support, how do you troubleshoot the competitors AP's? How do you do RF link tests and packet loss tests at 10:00PM when the customer is on the phone? I call the competitor on his cell phone. Just like he
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Rick, Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was certified system. I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions about certification. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
With good reason. It's not an acceptable solution if it's not certified. If someone takes you to court over interference (which they can!) you'd lose if they're using certified gear and you're not. The fact that it's Unlicensed spectrum takes a back seat until both are proven to be using legal gear. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Rick, Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was certified system. I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions about certification. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 700 MHz decision at FCC
Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I didn't read it all, just scanned a bit and read some summaries, but there's NOTHING GOOD in it for us. Not much good in it for consumers, either. The fact that it's 200 pages looks a bit daunting, but once you learn how to use the magic FCC Decoder Ring, it gets a lot easier. Every section start with here's what this section will talk about, then a bunch of X party said this about that idea, then a couple paragraphs at the end that say and we're doing This, and here's why. You can safely skip over those middle sections, as they don't contain too many surprises (and about 90% of them are the FCC saying we reject this idea anyway). Basically, the FCC is gunning for the big bucks on the spectrum auction and there's NO spectrum considered, as best I can tell, for use for small WISP use. Rather, it's regionally and market sized auctions for the most part, and then something or other about cellular market auctions. I dunno what all those mean, but I can predict it's nothing I'll ever get to use. The smallest licenses are tied to Cellular Market Areas, most of which are eight or ten counties. Basically, the perfect size for a WISP. Can someone more familiar than I with FCC-fu explain to me, though, how it is that about a third of those CMA licenses appear to already have been sold? (There's an FCC Auction 49, in which 246 CMAs labeled lower 700MHz band were sold in spring 2003.) As an aside, how will the remaining 500 or so of those licenses be sold? David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
I would assume Dawn, that your statement like mine is an SS U Me tion. If the trango's plug into the ethernets and the cm9 is a wifi ap, then it's quite a stretch to say that the mt-cm9 combo alone is not certified. George Dawn DiPietro wrote: Rick, Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was certified system. I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions about certification. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
Dawn DiPietro wrote: Rick, There is no way you would be legit if you decided to do this on your own. Considering the conversation that went on a few weeks back mentioned that people used Mikrotik systems because of the feature set and not cost why would you not buy an already certified system. Dawn, the reason we do this is because we like the performance of our mt-star type systems over Trango, Alvarion, Moto, etc. If the system is certified with a board and cm9's, why would we not want and be able to use the system in the way we see fit? Why do we have to use Trango for the backhaul, if a cm9 is legit? -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC.
Charles, you should be asking the board this, or at least members who pay and have some say in wispa, not the open anyone can post wireless -list.. Don't you agree? George Charles Wu wrote: Out of curiosity...does this mean I can just email blast the list with events that I organize? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sascha Meinrath Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 12:30 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Community Wireless Summit May 18-20, 2007 -- Washington, DC. FYI: Contact: Sascha Meinrath Executive Director CUWiN Foundation [EMAIL PROTECTED] 217-278-3933 x31 INTERNATIONAL SUMMIT TO ADDRESS FUTURE OF BROADBAND -- Community Technology Leaders from Six Continents to Participate -- Champaign-Urbana, I.L., April 18 -- The CUWiN Foundation and the Center for Community Informatics (CCI) will host the International Summit for Community Wireless Networks (http://WirelessSummit.org) from May 18-20, 2007 at Loyola College in Columbia, Maryland. The summit is the largest gathering of wireless network developers, technology and policy experts, and community organizers working to build universal, low-cost broadband networks around the world. We are proud to host an event that brings together technologists and activists committed to universal access to informatics, said Marco Figueiredo, CCI Director. The International Summit for Community Wireless Networks explores the opportunities and challenges facing the growing movement to build community and municipal broadband networks, said Sascha Meinrath, co-founder and Executive Director of CUWiN. This event showcases cutting-edge technologies and develops political strategies to increase digital inclusion. Since the first National Summit for Community Wireless Networks in 2004, over 300 Community Internet and municipal broadband projects have sprung up in the United States alone. The Summit will focus on how these networks can better serve their target populations, the policies needed to support broader deployment of community wireless systems, and the latest technological and software innovations. Presenters at previous summits have included FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein, Jim Baller of the Baller Herbst Law Group, Annie Collins of Fiber for Our Future, Mark Cooper of the Consumer Federation of America, Harold Feld of Media Access Project, Robert W. McChesney of Free Press, Matt Rantanen of Tribal Digital Village, Greg Richardson of Civitium LLC, Paul Smith of the Center for Neighborhood Technologies, Jim Snider of the New America Foundation, Dana Spiegel of NYCwireless, Esme Vos of Muniwireless.com and many other luminaries. High-speed broadband access is the electricity of the 21st century, yet many rural and poorer urban communities are being left off the grid, said Ben Scott, policy director of Free Press, the DC-based policy think-tank. The innovators and organizers at the International Summit for Community Wireless Networks are blazing the trail to make broadband affordable and available to everyone. About CUWiN (http://www.cuwin.net) The CUWiN Foundation is a world-renowned coalition of wireless developers and community volunteers committed to providing low-cost, do-it-yourself, community-controlled alternatives to contemporary broadband models. CUWiN is fiscally sponsored by Grassroots.org, a non-profit 501c3. CUWiN's mission is to develop decentralized, community-owned networks that foster democratic cultures and local content. Through advocacy and through our commitment to open source technology, CUWiN supports organic networks that grow to meet the needs of their communities. About CCI (http://cci.cs.loyola.edu) The Center for Community Informatics engages Loyola College's students, faculty and staff in supporting the creation and deployment of informatics tools for community empowerment. CCI develops the Community Telecenter Free Software Toolset; promotes awareness events for the Loyola College community; offer courses in Community Informatics; promotes Digital Inclusion Conferences; researches and develops human-friendly technologies to facilitate inclusion in the New Society of Knowledge; and, evaluates, documents and develops sustainable models for Universal Access to Informatics. # # # -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
Every time I go to look up antenna\radio certifications: = NOTICE: Most of the FCC website and related electronic filing systems and documents (except for the Wireless Telecommunications Bureau's website, auctions and licensing systems) will be unavailable between 5:00 am EDT Saturday, April 28 and 8:00 pm EDT Sunday, April 29 for scheduled maintenance. = - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Smith, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:08 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? With good reason. It's not an acceptable solution if it's not certified. If someone takes you to court over interference (which they can!) you'd lose if they're using certified gear and you're not. The fact that it's Unlicensed spectrum takes a back seat until both are proven to be using legal gear. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Rick, Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was certified system. I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions about certification. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] EarthLink studying muni Wi-Fi business
Speaking of limitations, I just read a scathing review of Madison's MadCity Broadband muni Wi-Fi project. The system was built by Cell Net and uses Cisco's mesh gear. See here: *http://tinyurl.com/yrz7cb* MadCity Broadband uses a wholesale model. One company, ResTech, signed up 2000 subscribers. All but 700 have cancelled. ResTech is pulling out, leaving Merr.com as the sole resale partner. *According to Galanter, Madison is a pioneer* in developing a citywide broadband system and a proving ground for the equipment, manufactured by Cisco Systems. It's all so new, she says. Cisco is using our experience to continue to improve the technology. And Madison's approach is unique — no two cities are thinking about it in the same way. I sure would hate to be a proving ground for Cisco! Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Post Card marketing
Does anyone have examples of post card marketing they have done? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
George, Trango would have had the whole system certified not just the radio card and the SBC. You can't take out a few parts from a certified system and consider it legal in any way shape or form. The system as a whole was certified including the case, the power supply and software. As far as I understand it if you change anything it would need to be re certified. The system would also need a sticker with the FCC ID # affixed to the outside of the case. Aren't you on the Cert Committee? Regards, Dawn DiPietro George Rogato wrote: I would assume Dawn, that your statement like mine is an SS U Me tion. If the trango's plug into the ethernets and the cm9 is a wifi ap, then it's quite a stretch to say that the mt-cm9 combo alone is not certified. George Dawn DiPietro wrote: Rick, Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was certified system. I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions about certification. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering
Have you ever driven from Odessa to Spokane? - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 6:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering Marlon's main city is Odessa, WA. Within 65 miles is Spokane, WA that has hundreds of thousands of people, plus all the suburbs. It seems he is short sighted by not expanding into that market 6-8 years ago. Sixty miles is nothing... I have a single 73 mile shot that has been running 100% uptime for almost 2 years. Travis Microserv Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I have to come to Marlon's defense a bit here.The idaho falls / pocatello area has DRAMATICALLY more people than the central washington wasteland Marlon serves. You serve the populated areas of Bonneville, Bingham and Bannock Counties, if I estimate your coverage. This approaches a quarter million people, at least for the three counties, it does. Marlon's town is about 1000 people, Lincoln and Adams County together have less than 30K people, and his main competition is a utility which is using it's financial might to subsidize buried fiber to every home in Grant County. I have seen Marlon's territory, driven through it, and seen his operation. It's a collection of small community markets. I would say that in spite of being small, he probably has considerably higher market share than you do, for the places he covers. None of this is to disparage anyone. But you can't compare apples and oranges like that and have it make any sense at all. I suspect you'd struggle mightily to adapt to marlon's situation... and vice versa. Let's not go off on each other here.. We have much better targets to aim at. - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering Well, I seem to be holding my own ground pretty well... and I DON'T turn customers over to my competition... over 65 towers in operation, over 3,000 wireless subs, hundreds of DSL subs, almost 50 fiber subs (banks, hospitals, insurance, etc.)... and NO outside investors, stock holders, or any long-term debt whatsoever. :) (OT: Our annual gross revenue has been within 1% of the previous year for the past 4 years. However, I have managed to decrease our expenses by 10% every year. While this doesn't seem like a lot, realize we are a multi-million dollar company. There is EASY money to be made by just cutting expenses. Things like shopping around for better CC rates, better insurance rates, cheaper bandwidth, etc.) Also, if you leased your equipment, you could put the new tower up for less than $200 per month for EVERYTHING. ;) rant Call it what you will Marlon, but I believe you started your wireless operation around 1997 (going off your website). In 1997 we started our wireless service as well. Today we have over 3,000 connected wireless subs and are growing at over 100 per month. We have been profitable since our first year in business. This will be _another_ record breaking year for us. We have a backbone uptime of 99.99% over the last 2 years (including scheduled maintenance). Our wireless subs see a 99.9% uptime (including maintenance, interferance issues, blown AP's, etc). We deliver over 150Mbps of internet traffic during business hours using three diverse providers (DS3 via Qwest fiber, OC3 via seperate Qwest fiber, Level3 via fastethernet via seperate fiber via seperate NOC). We provide service to 8 entire school districts (out of a possible 10 in our entire 25,000 square mile coverage area). /rant So, if I'm short sighted and you are not, why is my company 10x the size and making 10x the profit when both of us started at the same time? Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISP Peering Why wouldn't you just put up your own AP's and service the same area rather than give that customer away to the competition? Spectrum congestion. Cashflow Speed. Expanded coverage, very quickly, for no money. I would spend $5k and put up my own tower before I turn a potential customer away to the competition. I've done it many times over the years and it has always paid off. Once one person is connected, they tell their neighbors about it. Pretty soon an AP that was put up for a single customer has 10 or 20 customers on it. Um, the competitors ALREADY have networks in place! Doesn't seem to make business sense to me. Plus when they need tech support, how do you troubleshoot the competitors AP's? How do you do RF link tests and packet loss tests at 10:00PM when the customer is on the phone? I call the competitor on his cell phone.
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
Mike, Why risk losing your business for using uncertified gear? Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Rick, Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was certified system. I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions about certification. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
I don't think so. I think they probably have done the testing and got the certs for the board and the card. The trango stuff is a diferent test and cert that happened a long time ago. Lets not read more into it than whats there. We all know what a trango unit looks like and we all know how it works and we know that one works with out the other and has no effect on each other. Point we are making is, did trango and mt certify a cm9 with a board. End of question. Dawn DiPietro wrote: George, Trango would have had the whole system certified not just the radio card and the SBC. You can't take out a few parts from a certified system and consider it legal in any way shape or form. The system as a whole was certified including the case, the power supply and software. As far as I understand it if you change anything it would need to be re certified. The system would also need a sticker with the FCC ID # affixed to the outside of the case. Aren't you on the Cert Committee? Regards, Dawn DiPietro George Rogato wrote: I would assume Dawn, that your statement like mine is an SS U Me tion. If the trango's plug into the ethernets and the cm9 is a wifi ap, then it's quite a stretch to say that the mt-cm9 combo alone is not certified. George Dawn DiPietro wrote: Rick, Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was certified system. I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions about certification. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
I think there's much more important things to worry about. Do I use frayed cables linking an XR5 to a 6 watt amp into an omni? No. I mainly use radios that are relatively low powered, though I have a couple Ubiquiti. I use quality connections to connect them to quality antenna. I have yet to fully complete my research due to the FCC's site being down more than up when I'm doing said research. However, Ubiquiti has stated that they have certified their XR line of radios with antenna up to 32 dbi. I am not using antenna that large. I have read someone else state that uninentional radiator certification is pretty cheap and easy to achieve. I can go that route if things aren't already covered. If you take a step back and look at it, if Mikrotik products were so evil, surely the FCC would have imposed some sort of sanction on Mikrotik, their distributors, etc. They have not. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Mike, Why risk losing your business for using uncertified gear? Regards, Dawn DiPietro Mike Hammett wrote: People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Rick, Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? No. You would have to use the exact same parts to be considered legal from the antenna to the power supply. This would mean you would have to get the manufacturer of all these parts in the trango system. If you took this approach you would be taking on the responsibility to make sure this really a was certified system. I assume you read the FAQ that Jack Unger setup to answer these questions about certification. Regards, Dawn DiPietro -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] RE: Madcity muni report
Why in heaven's name would Madison risk that much of a project on unproven equipment? What kind of track record does Cisco have in mesh? They must not have done a proof of concept area first. The 2000 sub initial sub number isn't believable anyway, though. Mesh take rates are nowhere near that high. Someone isn't putting out correct figures. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 3:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] EarthLink studying muni Wi-Fi business Speaking of limitations, I just read a scathing review of Madison's MadCity Broadband muni Wi-Fi project. The system was built by Cell Net and uses Cisco's mesh gear. See here: *http://tinyurl.com/yrz7cb* MadCity Broadband uses a wholesale model. One company, ResTech, signed up 2000 subscribers. All but 700 have cancelled. ResTech is pulling out, leaving Merr.com as the sole resale partner. *According to Galanter, Madison is a pioneer* in developing a citywide broadband system and a proving ground for the equipment, manufactured by Cisco Systems. It's all so new, she says. Cisco is using our experience to continue to improve the technology. And Madison's approach is unique - no two cities are thinking about it in the same way. I sure would hate to be a proving ground for Cisco! Best, -- Dylan Oliver -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RE: Madcity muni report
I don't know why you don't believe the 2000 subscriber figure. The goal of the article is clearly not to pump the system up. The City, for what it's worth, did not risk all that much. Some employees' time, I think is what the article said - though that could be considerable! Cell Net took most of the burden. On 4/28/07, ralph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why in heaven's name would Madison risk that much of a project on unproven equipment? What kind of track record does Cisco have in mesh? They must not have done a proof of concept area first. The 2000 sub initial sub number isn't believable anyway, though. Mesh take rates are nowhere near that high. Someone isn't putting out correct figures. -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
And so they should. FCC rules are not jokes. They have real fines. Just because folks have always done it this way and see everyone else doing it doesn't exonerate them from wrongdoing. Using uncertified systems is just plain illegal. Period. There are people in WISPA who have pictures of installations on their web sites clearly showing amplifiers and homemade systems. Some of the rest of you continue to make postings and saying that you are violating the regs. Now we have this discussion about Trango. Because Trango has some MT components in a certified system (which they may or not do- I don't follow Trango), now all of a sudden we are trying to imagine that these components must now be legal for *everyone* to use in whatever configuration they want, as well. What part of this do you guys not get? Most of you guys pay your taxes don't you? You buy license plates for your vehicles don't you? If you have towers that require lighting, you light them, don't you? Would your excuses work to protect you if you don't do that? Those of us who obey the rules aren't paranoid about it at all. Its only those who don't and are now realizing that they can lose their businesses over this. As I have said many times: Folks- tell/show your vendors that you are not going to use illegal systems. Look at Deliberant at an example of someone building from modules and getting certified. Those guys have it together! Does there have to be an example case where someone gets fined to make you guys see this? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
Sure, if you can afford the FCC fine! Please post when/where you do this. ;-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? as a complete system. Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Good point. They must have gotten FCC approval as a complete system over a year ago. Travis Microserv Frank Crawford wrote: Travis; The router board also connects to a MiniPCI CM9 wireless board that functions as a WiFi Access Point. Page 5, Section 2, Paragraph 1 of trango's mesh manual, the trango atlas radios are for backhaul. hope this helps frank - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? The Trango MESH box uses Trango radios (thus FCC certified) and an RB532 for doing the routing. The RB is NOT providing any wireless service. Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: If the mesh box that is a MT box is legit and certified, why not just drop trango from the picture? What is the purpose of trango ? Dawn DiPietro wrote: Frank, Then I would suggest Rick go the Trango route. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Frank Crawford wrote: Trango's mesh box uses rb532 plus daughter bd and mikrotik OS. It's in thier manual. Frank - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:12 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Rick, I have to agree with Ralph on this one. Since you have admitted on a public list that you believe there are no certified Mikrotik systems out there it would not be in your best interest to start off with such a system. Regards, Dawn DiPietro ralph wrote: The first thing I'd do in a case like that, is use an FCC approved system to start with. The fact that you don't plan to leaves you open for controversy from the beginning. Why would you do anything else? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
Ralph, your looking at this from the wrong angle. With the Trango / MT situation, we HOPE that they are certified, because that will mean it's much easier to get our own flavor of MT cm9 certified and that MT actually is involved in certification efforts. Till now there has been no indication they and others are. The crux of this ongoing argument is did someone certify a MT, routerboard, cm9 system? Skip the already certified Trango components. What we all want is this stuff to get certified, and your right on track to push for certification. It will benefit us all. ralph wrote: And so they should. FCC rules are not jokes. They have real fines. Just because folks have always done it this way and see everyone else doing it doesn't exonerate them from wrongdoing. Using uncertified systems is just plain illegal. Period. There are people in WISPA who have pictures of installations on their web sites clearly showing amplifiers and homemade systems. Some of the rest of you continue to make postings and saying that you are violating the regs. Now we have this discussion about Trango. Because Trango has some MT components in a certified system (which they may or not do- I don't follow Trango), now all of a sudden we are trying to imagine that these components must now be legal for *everyone* to use in whatever configuration they want, as well. What part of this do you guys not get? Most of you guys pay your taxes don't you? You buy license plates for your vehicles don't you? If you have towers that require lighting, you light them, don't you? Would your excuses work to protect you if you don't do that? Those of us who obey the rules aren't paranoid about it at all. Its only those who don't and are now realizing that they can lose their businesses over this. As I have said many times: Folks- tell/show your vendors that you are not going to use illegal systems. Look at Deliberant at an example of someone building from modules and getting certified. Those guys have it together! Does there have to be an example case where someone gets fined to make you guys see this? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? People really are getting paranoid about MT certification lately. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RE: Madcity muni report
I don't know why you don't believe the 2000 subscriber figure. The goal of the article is clearly not to pump the system up. I for one wouldn't believe it considering the word is that Earthlink doesn't even have a total of 2000 paying subscribers across all their Wi-Fi networks. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
how much is the fine ? Where's it specified ? (SERIOUS question.) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ralph Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 5:40 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Sure, if you can afford the FCC fine! Please post when/where you do this. ;-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? as a complete system. Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Good point. They must have gotten FCC approval as a complete system over a year ago. Travis Microserv Frank Crawford wrote: Travis; The router board also connects to a MiniPCI CM9 wireless board that functions as a WiFi Access Point. Page 5, Section 2, Paragraph 1 of trango's mesh manual, the trango atlas radios are for backhaul. hope this helps frank - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? The Trango MESH box uses Trango radios (thus FCC certified) and an RB532 for doing the routing. The RB is NOT providing any wireless service. Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: If the mesh box that is a MT box is legit and certified, why not just drop trango from the picture? What is the purpose of trango ? Dawn DiPietro wrote: Frank, Then I would suggest Rick go the Trango route. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Frank Crawford wrote: Trango's mesh box uses rb532 plus daughter bd and mikrotik OS. It's in thier manual. Frank - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:12 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Rick, I have to agree with Ralph on this one. Since you have admitted on a public list that you believe there are no certified Mikrotik systems out there it would not be in your best interest to start off with such a system. Regards, Dawn DiPietro ralph wrote: The first thing I'd do in a case like that, is use an FCC approved system to start with. The fact that you don't plan to leaves you open for controversy from the beginning. Why would you do anything else? Ralph -Original Message-
Re: [WISPA] WISPA ISPCON PROMO - Ends May 4th
We're excited to be exhibiting at ISPCON Spring 2007: LaunchPad Pavilion J. And we want to see you there! We have negotiated a special rate for our clients and partners so you can save big on your ISPCON full-conference registration. But that is only the start, please read on... ISPCON Spring 2007 will take place May 23-25 at the Rosen Centre Hotel in Orlando, FL. Simply sign up online by May 4, 2007 and use our unique customer code: PLUSS7. The $100 discount will be taken off the current $595 price of the full-conference pass. Or use our customer code to get a FREE pass to the exhibit hall and keynotes. http://www.ispcon.com/register.php Ok, now here is the WISPA ONLY BONUS! Until May 4th only, the first 10 WISP's signing up for a Full conference pass using our Promo code, PLUSS7 saving $100 off the full conference pass of $595, will receive a $250 credit towards a WISPA membership paid by our company directly. Yes, you read that right, a full one-year membership to WISPA! The credit will be issued once ISPCON verifies the full-conference pass has been paid for. So be one of the first 10 to respond to this offer and save money and support a great organization - WISPA. So sign on quickly, only the first 10 will qualify! WISPA BONUS #2 Any WISP signing up for a new WISPA membership or a Full-conference pass will receive a $250 credit allowance towards any services we are offering including Postini and the upcoming additional new service of hosted email; POP3, IMAP, SMTP and Web Mail with 100mb mailbox storage. More info will be coming out in the coming weeks and for the ISPCON conference. We're looking forward to seeing you in Orlando! Sign up online today and save when you use our unique customer code: PLUSS7 So if you are not taking advantage of this money saving WISPA promotion before May 4, 2007, you can still download this PDF, http://secureemailplus.com/ISPCONPASS.pdf and bringit with you to receive the free Exhibits and Events Pass, or $100 Full-conferene discount when you register on-site or online at: http://www.ispcon.com/register.php Frank Muto President/CEO FSM Marketing Group, Inc. www.secureemailplus.com Toll Free: 800-246-7740 ISPCON Spring 2007 May 23-25 in Orlando, FL. LaunchPad Pavilion J P.S. Remember, you can only qualify by using our unique ISPCON code PLUSS7. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
I believe the FCC has the authority to fine up to $10k per incident. - Original Message - From: Smith, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 3:22 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? how much is the fine ? Where's it specified ? (SERIOUS question.) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ralph Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 5:40 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Sure, if you can afford the FCC fine! Please post when/where you do this. ;-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? as a complete system. Does that mean we can take a 532 board and a cm9 and use it elsewhere and consider it certified ? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Good point. They must have gotten FCC approval as a complete system over a year ago. Travis Microserv Frank Crawford wrote: Travis; The router board also connects to a MiniPCI CM9 wireless board that functions as a WiFi Access Point. Page 5, Section 2, Paragraph 1 of trango's mesh manual, the trango atlas radios are for backhaul. hope this helps frank - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:25 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? The Trango MESH box uses Trango radios (thus FCC certified) and an RB532 for doing the routing. The RB is NOT providing any wireless service. Travis Microserv George Rogato wrote: If the mesh box that is a MT box is legit and certified, why not just drop trango from the picture? What is the purpose of trango ? Dawn DiPietro wrote: Frank, Then I would suggest Rick go the Trango route. Regards, Dawn DiPietro Frank Crawford wrote: Trango's mesh box uses rb532 plus daughter bd and mikrotik OS. It's in thier manual. Frank - Original Message - From: Dawn DiPietro [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 5:12 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? Rick, I have to agree with Ralph on this one. Since you have admitted on a public list that you believe there are no certified Mikrotik systems out there it would not be in your best interest to start off with such a system. Regards, Dawn DiPietro ralph wrote: The first thing I'd do in a case like that, is use an FCC approved system to start with. The fact that you don't plan to leaves you open for controversy from the beginning. Why would you do anything else? Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ? We're looking to provide service to a school nearby, using Mikrotik and SR5 / SR9 cards. Anyone have proposals to a school with info in it addressing the issue of will you fry our children ? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] School WiFi / Wireless info ?
George Rogato wrote: The crux of this ongoing argument is did someone certify a MT, routerboard, cm9 system? Skip the already certified Trango components. Dumb newbie question. Doesn't the certification apply to a complete package, including antenna and software? Mikrotik's RouterOS software (and basically every other WISP-targeted Linux distribution) give you an easy way to change the radio power on the card (within the limits of the card itself). If you turn that power up too high, and hook up a really studly antenna, hey, you've just exceeded the power limits. Maybe on accident, maybe not. I don't think the FCC takes oops in lieu of fines, regardless of their sincerity. I thought part of the whole point of certification was to (try to) ensure that the product, as a whole, doesn't exceed allowed EIRP. You might be able to get that combination of hardware and software, and one specific antenna, all certified. And under the you can use other antennas as long as they have equal or less gain rule, that's a start. It's still a far cry from a completely certified system, though. There's just too many types of antennas out there, and too many radio cards. (Though that does bring up an interesting sideline - most of the good radio cards out there are using the same chipset. If we're going for components, would it be beneficial or even possible to certify the chip and not the whole radio card?) I'll refrain from a rant on how the whole certification process seems designed to actively stifle ingenuity, but it sure is tempting. David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Post Card marketing
The printer told me that they would advise me to use labels instead of direct printing because the ink would run. I mentioned using a laser printer. Wouldn't the toner be fused to the card and thus not run? If they're referring to the card itself running because of the heat of the laser printer, wouldn't an inkjet solve that? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 2:08 PM Subject: [WISPA] Post Card marketing Does anyone have examples of post card marketing they have done? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
I know you're absolutely sick of hearing about it. But here's someone who actually intends to stand up and do something about CALEA. WISPA needs to join this fight. If you want these people supporting WISPA, support them! www.wispa.org Will WISPA actively seek to defend small networks - most of which will be wireless - from being simply shut down becasue they can't comply with mandates designed for telephone companies? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
Who is that someone? Why does wispa want to take an antagonistic stance towards legal high tech wiretapping? Isn't legal wiretapping essential to law enforcement? The only thing I can think of is to seek funds from the feds to implement this. George Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I know you're absolutely sick of hearing about it. But here's someone who actually intends to stand up and do something about CALEA. WISPA needs to join this fight. If you want these people supporting WISPA, support them! www.wispa.org Will WISPA actively seek to defend small networks - most of which will be wireless - from being simply shut down becasue they can't comply with mandates designed for telephone companies? -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Post Card marketing
No, but postcard mania sends me lots of offers. postcardmania.com Mike Hammett wrote: Does anyone have examples of post card marketing they have done? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RE: [WISP] Post card marketing
Hey, Rick, that's cool. I plan on doing something similar, but with doorhangers this summer. College kids will be contracted to go drive around and hang these on the doors of every farm, home, whatever, that appears to be in range of an AP. We expect to get real busy :) - Original Message - From: Smith, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: [WISPA] RE: [WISP] Post card marketing We've printed ours on a color laser. No problems mailing them. We got some returned due to no suitable mail receptacle, and the printing all looked fine... I attached the most recent we sent out. No calls on it yet, but we mailed it Thursday. R From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISP] Post card marketing The printer told me that they would advise me to use labels instead of direct printing because the ink would run. I mentioned using a laser printer. Wouldn't the toner be fused to the card and thus not run? If they're referring to the card itself running because of the heat of the laser printer, wouldn't an inkjet solve that? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: [WISP] Post card marketing Does anyone have examples of post card marketing they have done? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Why does wispa want to take an antagonistic stance towards legal high tech wiretapping? BECAUSE IT IS FREAKING WRONG, GEORGE, for the government to shift the cost of law enforcement to specific business entities for its own convenience. Why can't you see this? When I was in the electrical contracting business, I was forced to have all kinds of fees laid upon me to conduct business. This isp business is one of the least regulated with the least intrusive and least government costs. If your moaning and groaning about what will probably turn out to be very low cost solutions, (an assumption) what are you going to do when it comes time to hire employees and then fall inline with those government regulations and costs? -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] need service in Bradenton, Fl
Now thats something to dream of! -RickG On 4/27/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Travis, and all. If this were in MY area YOU could service that customer! How cool is that. I'm tellin ya, if you want a cell phone type value (or something at least better than the average isp) we have to find a way to build national coverage. And that means cooperation with other wisps. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 10:12 PM Subject: [WISPA] need service in Bradenton, Fl Contact me offlist. -RickG -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
I won't defend all the crazy intrusions by government. But this is not a fee to conduct business. This isn't a tax. This is a mandate to carry out the functions of law enforcement for them, purely for thier convenience. It isn't even a regulation to enforce quality standards on internet services, nor consumer protection from shoddy internet services, nor is it even a protection from badly conducted wireless operations. Theoretically, your contractor's license and so on were consumer protection concerning the business you were in. The effectiveness can be debated, and this is not the place for that. But, CALEA has NOTHING to do with providing internet services nor consumer protection. It is simply transferrence of law enforcement functions to YOU to do at your own expense, by your own people and at YOUR OWN LIABILITY. If you mix up someone's traffic, because someone made a typo, do you REALLY think that you will be protected from the wrath of the legal eagles out to get you? Don't count on it. And it is impossible for small operators to be in complete compliance. And it presents an obstacle to technological innovation and it presents MAJOR obstacles to certtain types of desired network types, such as mesh. There are many other ways for law enforcement to get what it needs. Even better would be a REAL law, written properly, and funded properly by Congress, instead of this absurdity about information services and telecommuncations services. You know, of course, that this hybrid 'standing' is about as shaky as a sand castle on the beach. It wont' be any time before we're fully telecommuncations services and the mandates and regulations and controls fly at us like vultures to roadkill or flies to a cowpie. It's a very small thing to support the notion that small ISP's be exempt for obvious reasons. But you won't even do that? Why the bloody hell not? What have you got against them? - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Why does wispa want to take an antagonistic stance towards legal high tech wiretapping? BECAUSE IT IS FREAKING WRONG, GEORGE, for the government to shift the cost of law enforcement to specific business entities for its own convenience. Why can't you see this? When I was in the electrical contracting business, I was forced to have all kinds of fees laid upon me to conduct business. This isp business is one of the least regulated with the least intrusive and least government costs. If your moaning and groaning about what will probably turn out to be very low cost solutions, (an assumption) what are you going to do when it comes time to hire employees and then fall inline with those government regulations and costs? -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:17:17 -0700 George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Why does wispa want to take an antagonistic stance towards legal high tech wiretapping? BECAUSE IT IS FREAKING WRONG, GEORGE, for the government to shift the cost of law enforcement to specific business entities for its own convenience. Why can't you see this? When I was in the electrical contracting business, I was forced to have all kinds of fees laid upon me to conduct business. This isp business is one of the least regulated with the least intrusive and least government costs. If your moaning and groaning about what will probably turn out to be very low cost solutions, (an assumption) what are you going to do when it comes time to hire employees and then fall inline with those government regulations and costs? In my case with less than 30 subs, one network operator (me), and tiny budget, there is no way i can afford even a low cost solution. let alone 4 or 5 employees. So unless some miracle occurs, I will close shop on May 12. Mission accomplished one less little guy in the mix. Ed -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
How do you know what the costs are Ed? George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
George, From talking to equipment manufactures, law enforcement, and trusted third party providers. I would roll my own, but even if i had a working intercept device (opencalea's tap program) it would still need to forward the collected data to the TTP for mediation. Ed On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:53:48 -0700 George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you know what the costs are Ed? George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
Because, like you, he can read the rules, and come to the conclusion that he simply cannot find a way to do everythign required. I can't either. You have safe harbor only if you're using an industry standard, and nobody can point us to one. Unless we have some kind pre-packaged setup, lots of people, including me, have absolutely NO IDEA how to do all the data manipulation and whatnot that's supposedly required. the only pre-packaged solutions are hundreds of dollars a month with a sizeable setup up front or 10, 20, or more thousands of dollars for a turnkey box that does at least some of the functions required. OpenCalea offers nothing to people in my shoes. We're all of what, three weeks from having to file that we're in compliance, and we can't point to anything yet? Where's this cheap solution going to magically spring from, and be trouble free and bug free and compliant? Face reality, it's not here and won't be. Instead, we're goin to string along, making promises and statements that we're going to comply, while we still have no price tag, much less cash in the bank to pay this. The longer we go, the less time there is to develop alternatives to some announced standard mechanism of for doing stuff, or some kind of standard software.. We're flying blind, here. None of us small guys have lawers, consultants, or super techies who can just do this, much less implement the time constraints and 24/7/365 aspects, etc. And we're wondering why the only organization devoted to our industry won't even appeal on our behalf to the authorities, and try to authoritatively explain to them they've gone far beyond the capabilities of most of the target networks. - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page How do you know what the costs are Ed? George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
don't forget, you can't charge LEA for the TTP's services. You may pay that TTP for years and they never do a single thing for you. - Original Message - From: Edward H. Winters [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page George, From talking to equipment manufactures, law enforcement, and trusted third party providers. I would roll my own, but even if i had a working intercept device (opencalea's tap program) it would still need to forward the collected data to the TTP for mediation. Ed On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:53:48 -0700 George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you know what the costs are Ed? George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
Have you heard actual costs yet? Edward H. Winters wrote: George, From talking to equipment manufactures, law enforcement, and trusted third party providers. I would roll my own, but even if i had a working intercept device (opencalea's tap program) it would still need to forward the collected data to the TTP for mediation. Ed On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:53:48 -0700 George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you know what the costs are Ed? George -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RE: [WISP] Post card marketing
I have done both (door hangers and postcards). The postcards are much more effective than door hangers, and much cheaper overall. You have to offer a "special discount" on the postcard... like "$50 off installation when you mention this card". Travis Microserv Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Hey, Rick, that's cool. I plan on doing something similar, but with doorhangers this summer. College kids will be contracted to go drive around and hang these on the doors of every farm, home, whatever, that appears to be in range of an AP. We expect to get real busy :) - Original Message - From: "Smith, Rick" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: [WISPA] RE: [WISP] Post card marketing We've printed ours on a color laser. No problems mailing them. We got some returned due to "no suitable mail receptacle", and the printing all looked fine... I attached the most recent we sent out. No calls on it yet, but we mailed it Thursday. R From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISP] Post card marketing The printer told me that they would advise me to use labels instead of direct printing because the ink would run. I mentioned using a laser printer. Wouldn't the toner be fused to the card and thus not run? If they're referring to the card itself running because of the heat of the laser printer, wouldn't an inkjet solve that? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: [WISP] Post card marketing Does anyone have examples of post card marketing they have done? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] from WISPA's home page....
nothing concrete, but i will not sign a nondisclosure agreement with any of them at the moment either. i've been told everything from a few hundred a month, to thousands for the subscription, with setup (initial testing) fees ranging from around one thousand up to ten thousand. Ed On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 21:39:22 -0700 George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you heard actual costs yet? Edward H. Winters wrote: George, From talking to equipment manufactures, law enforcement, and trusted third party providers. I would roll my own, but even if i had a working intercept device (opencalea's tap program) it would still need to forward the collected data to the TTP for mediation. Ed On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:53:48 -0700 George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do you know what the costs are Ed? George -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RE: [WISP] Post card marketing
I agree, door hangers have been nothing but a complete waste of time for us. However, yard signs (realty sign size) has worked very well. They are a constant reminder, door hangers get thrown in the trash. On 4/28/07, Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have done both (door hangers and postcards). The postcards are much more effective than door hangers, and much cheaper overall. You have to offer a special discount on the postcard... like $50 off installation when you mention this card. Travis Microserv Mark Koskenmaki wrote: Hey, Rick, that's cool. I plan on doing something similar, but with doorhangers this summer. College kids will be contracted to go drive around and hang these on the doors of every farm, home, whatever, that appears to be in range of an AP. We expect to get real busy :) - Original Message - From: Smith, Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 7:37 PM Subject: [WISPA] RE: [WISP] Post card marketing We've printed ours on a color laser. No problems mailing them. We got some returned due to no suitable mail receptacle, and the printing all looked fine... I attached the most recent we sent out. No calls on it yet, but we mailed it Thursday. R From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 9:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISP] Post card marketing The printer told me that they would advise me to use labels instead of direct printing because the ink would run. I mentioned using a laser printer. Wouldn't the toner be fused to the card and thus not run? If they're referring to the card itself running because of the heat of the laser printer, wouldn't an inkjet solve that? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: [WISP] Post card marketing Does anyone have examples of post card marketing they have done? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chad Halsted The Computer Works Conway, AR www.tcworks.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
