Re: [WISPA] Future
Another bankruptcy waiting to happen. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Hi, A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months). Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city... and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had 120,000). Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special dispensation or what. All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That will erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and capital intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many folks prefer to deal with us vs a large public traded company. Superior customer service and support will always retain the customer. The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drop the balls. They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base from DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as they could. They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash situation from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from the other. In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web development, OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities. All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV. OTA HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value conscious customer. Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help folks get their analog TVs converted over. Less work than a WISP install and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer service. You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package. In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will ride this horse until it dies. Perhaps other technologies will come along for us to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years. In 10 years, if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting. Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much. Pesky physics. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] Future What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years? ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?) Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?) Cable will be using DOCSIS 3 3G will gain more steam WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are. My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid the niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better services with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV white spaces) and WiMAX. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Future
That is not going to happen Tom. Not by a long shot. Nothing fly-by-night about anything Kelley Dunne and Bill Wallace have ever done. These are class acts in every sense of the word. Very smart. Very talented. Very successful. Nothing left to chance. And damn nice people too that are a dream to work for. You can't believe how people clamor to work for them. I've known Kelley since 2002 and my personal regard for him is no less than I have for many of the WISP personalities I hold most dear. His commitment to underserved markets is second to none and goes back his entire career. By the way, his NOC is not far from one of your NoVA pops; it is right there in Ashburn near Dulles. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Another bankruptcy waiting to happen. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Hi, A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months). Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city... and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had 120,000). Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special dispensation or what. All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That will erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and capital intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many folks prefer to deal with us vs a large public traded company. Superior customer service and support will always retain the customer. The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drop the balls. They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base from DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as they could. They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash situation from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from the other. In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web development, OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities. All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV. OTA HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value conscious customer. Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help folks get their analog TVs converted over. Less work than a WISP install and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer service. You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package. In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will ride this horse until it dies. Perhaps other technologies will come along for us to deploy but I see our segment strong for the next 5 years. In 10 years, if we have not diversified, we will probably be hurting. Oh, and satellite ISP will never do much. Pesky physics. - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] Future What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years? ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?) Verizon is
Re: [WISPA] Future
One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps you are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck. Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services will pop right up. That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of those that have an outdoor CPE). Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I have 10x the coverage they do in my market. The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and profit) and run. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition, which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small minority of the spending. Patrick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Hi, A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months). Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city... and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had 120,000). Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special dispensation or what. All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That will erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and capital intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many folks prefer to deal with us vs a large public traded company. Superior customer service and support will always retain the customer. The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drop the balls. They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base from DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as they could. They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash situation from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from the other. In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web development, OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities. All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV. OTA HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18
Re: [WISPA] Future
his NOC is not far from one of your NoVA Yes, aware of it. My personal opinon... They are over confident. Unforeseen market factors dictate success or failure, as much as capitol, technical savy, and ambition. However, If you say they are good people, they probably are. I will say, I think they did make one smart choice that is undisputeable. When they decided on Wimax, they did it with the leader in WiMax technology, clearly positioning themselves for success. (Provided they don't over spend on operations :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future That is not going to happen Tom. Not by a long shot. Nothing fly-by-night about anything Kelley Dunne and Bill Wallace have ever done. These are class acts in every sense of the word. Very smart. Very talented. Very successful. Nothing left to chance. And damn nice people too that are a dream to work for. You can't believe how people clamor to work for them. I've known Kelley since 2002 and my personal regard for him is no less than I have for many of the WISP personalities I hold most dear. His commitment to underserved markets is second to none and goes back his entire career. By the way, his NOC is not far from one of your NoVA pops; it is right there in Ashburn near Dulles. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Another bankruptcy waiting to happen. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Hi, A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months). Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city... and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had 120,000). Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special dispensation or what. All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That will erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and capital intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many folks prefer to deal with us vs a large public traded company. Superior customer service and support will always retain the customer. The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drop the balls. They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base from DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as they could. They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash situation from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from the other. In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web development, OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities. All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV. OTA HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value conscious customer. Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help folks get their analog TVs converted over. Less work
Re: [WISPA] MTI Antennas
they are 6 weeks out on them. But I finally did find some at CTI. Brian Bob Moldashel wrote: Winncom in Chicago Brian Rohrbacher wrote: MT-485025/SVH/E I am looking for these from MTI. Anyone know of a US distributer that might have stock? It is a dual pol 23 dbi that goes on the 1 foot enclosure. I am making some backhauls. Brian WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.0/1383 - Release Date: 4/17/2008 9:00 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Future
My point was they are selling a "3mbps connection" that doesn't deliver... just like the cable companies and telcos... they are no different. Fluff it all up and do whatever it takes to "fool" the customer so they will sign up. I don't like it and I think it's dishonest. I don't like people that do business like that. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: One point you need to remember Travis is that that "barely 1 mbps" you are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck. Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services will pop right up. That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of those that have an outdoor CPE). Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I have 10x the coverage they do in my market. The GM even mentioned "and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town with a check, we would definitely look at it"... which means, once again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in business. They are looking for the "buyout" to take their money (and profit) and run. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition, which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small minority of the spending. Patrick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Hi, A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio that we play with. We have their "up to 3meg premium service" and we barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months). Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city... and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had 120,000). Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special dispensation or what. All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That will erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and capital intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many folks prefer to deal with us vs a large public traded company. Superior customer service and support will always retain the customer. The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drop the balls. They are sooo
Re: [WISPA] Future
For all the props Patrick is giving them for a self-install CPE it would seem that the link budget isn't there for the service you ordered. Most likely a professionally installed outdoor CPE would work for you, but that isn't the point. How can you build a business model around selling a service with self-install variables? I would think you need to sell a best effort service such that the customer doesn't have incorrect expectations. For customers who want guaranteed performance a professional install seems appropriate. -Matt On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: My point was they are selling a 3mbps connection that doesn't deliver... just like the cable companies and telcos... they are no different. Fluff it all up and do whatever it takes to fool the customer so they will sign up. I don't like it and I think it's dishonest. I don't like people that do business like that. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps you are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck. Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services will pop right up. That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of those that have an outdoor CPE). Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I have 10x the coverage they do in my market. The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and profit) and run. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition, which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small minority of the spending. Patrick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Hi, A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months). Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city... and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had 120,000). Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special
Re: [WISPA] Future
Maybe, they are not lying, that is the over the air rate they are selling.haha. I'm with you on this one Travis. Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:35 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future My point was they are selling a 3mbps connection that doesn't deliver... just like the cable companies and telcos... they are no different. Fluff it all up and do whatever it takes to fool the customer so they will sign up. I don't like it and I think it's dishonest. I don't like people that do business like that. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps you are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck. Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services will pop right up. That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of those that have an outdoor CPE). Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I have 10x the coverage they do in my market. The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and profit) and run. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition, which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small minority of the spending. Patrick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Hi, A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months). Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city... and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had 120,000). Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special dispensation or what. All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That will erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and capital intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many folks prefer to deal with us vs a large public traded
Re: [WISPA] Future
Hi, I don't doubt that these two are the nicest people in the whole world. However, to put on the show that they are serving the under served markets is total BS. The markets they have deployed in already have cable, DSL, and at least 2 or 3 other WISP's. The under served communities in this area have less than 500 population. Why aren't they deploying there? This is an obvious business build and sell operation. It would be impossible for them to ever make a profit. They are selling service for $23.95 for 1Mbps. The modem costs at least $400 and the AP per CPE is probably another $500. So they have $1,000 into each customer... that's roughly 40 months payback on just the equipment. If we take the $40M and put it into a bank, you could easily make 5% interest, risk free. That's $2M per year profit. They will NEVER make that kind of profit. Again, they are in this to build it up, and then sell it off to Sprint or Clearwire. Let's stop with the they are helping the smaller communities get online stuff and say it like it is. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: That is not going to happen Tom. Not by a long shot. Nothing fly-by-night about anything Kelley Dunne and Bill Wallace have ever done. These are class acts in every sense of the word. Very smart. Very talented. Very successful. Nothing left to chance. And damn nice people too that are a dream to work for. You can't believe how people clamor to work for them. I've known Kelley since 2002 and my personal regard for him is no less than I have for many of the WISP personalities I hold most dear. His commitment to underserved markets is second to none and goes back his entire career. By the way, his NOC is not far from one of your NoVA pops; it is right there in Ashburn near Dulles. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 11:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Another bankruptcy waiting to happen. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Hi, A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months). Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city... and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had 120,000). Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special dispensation or what. All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That will erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and capital intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many folks prefer to deal with us vs a large public traded company. Superior customer service and support will always retain the customer. The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drop the balls. They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base from DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as they could. They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash situation from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from the other. In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web development,
Re: [WISPA] Future
- Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps you are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck. Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services will pop right up. That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of those that have an outdoor CPE). Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I have 10x the coverage they do in my market. The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and profit) and run. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition, which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small minority of the spending. Patrick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Hi, A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months). Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city... and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had 120,000). Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special dispensation or what. All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That will erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and capital intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many folks prefer to deal with us vs a large public traded company. Superior customer service and support will always retain the customer. The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drop the balls. They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base from DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as they could. They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash situation from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from the other. In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web development, OTA HDTV install and
Re: [WISPA] Future
We deliver 4 Mbps on our 900 MHz Canopy. Speed sells. Nothing else matters if you don't have the speed. This is good to know in that everywhere these guys set up shop, the local canopy deployment is sure to have an opportunity picking off unsatisfied customers. And 900 Canopy does go through walls. They also have self install indoor CPE. I would guess this is another case of OPM (other people's money). Earthlink was full of good people too. Most muni wifi's were staffed by good people. - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps you are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck. Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services will pop right up. That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of those that have an outdoor CPE). Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I have 10x the coverage they do in my market. The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and profit) and run. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition, which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small minority of the spending. Patrick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 6:36 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Hi, A new player just came to my area... BridgeMaxx (a Digital Bridge company). They are using Alvarion WiMax equipment. We have a test radio that we play with. We have their up to 3meg premium service and we barely get 1meg (any time we have tested over the last 3 months). Here's the real kicker... they will have spent $40 million dollars to roll out 15 cities (this is direct from their GM to me). She was pretty proud of herself with that statement. So that's $2.6 million per city... and I'm talking some cities with 15,000 population (their biggest had 120,000). Travis Microserv Chuck McCown - 2 wrote: WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special dispensation or what. All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That will erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and capital intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many folks prefer to deal with us vs a large public traded company. Superior customer service and support will always retain the
[WISPA] Shielded CAT5 connectors
Recently there was a discussion about shielded CAT5 cable and specifically Shireen. We ordered a couple of boxes to check it out and seems to be working. Where are people buying shielded CAT5 connectors at a good price? We would likely order them 500 at a time, but I have not found anything under about $0.75/connector. Are people using the shielded connectors? * Larry A. Weidig ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Shielded CAT5 connectors
I do not buy shielded and get the cable and connectors from cat5ecableguy.com Larry A Weidig wrote: Recently there was a discussion about shielded CAT5 cable and specifically Shireen. We ordered a couple of boxes to check it out and seems to be working. Where are people buying shielded CAT5 connectors at a good price? We would likely order them 500 at a time, but I have not found anything under about $0.75/connector. Are people using the shielded connectors? * Larry A. Weidig ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Future
Good question Matt. The way this is addressed with our major customers is with radio network planning. One of the services we do that each major customer has used is to perform a major coverage analysis using the most current clutter data and a software package called Hexagon. The analysis is done in complete conjunction with development of the business plan, since there are many variables to measure from what services to what scale to what range to what percentage planned for self-install versus outdoor CPE, not to mention the basics such as cell height, etc. We are able to provide these guys with a document that is both a technical instruction and a sales and marketing doc. The deliverable tells an operator with better than 98% certainty (and this has been proven out in EVERY case) EXACTLY which addresses can be served at what data rates with what CPE. It is far more than just a coverage plan. This plan is something that is the bible of the operator, since they should never install a client outside the boundaries of this doc. So pretty much all the variables are accounted for and there is no guess work. All this contributes to extremely high satisfaction rates so far and virtually no support calls (a data point that DBC measures carefully and is able to benchmark it against years in previous CLEC business). There is a public presentation somewhere that I will link to if I can find it that reveals some of the interesting data gathered so far. One of the most interesting for us is that our 802.16e WiMAX operators we have in North America (at least those we know that have shared this data with us) has at least doubled take rates. One beat it by 10x. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:42 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future For all the props Patrick is giving them for a self-install CPE it would seem that the link budget isn't there for the service you ordered. Most likely a professionally installed outdoor CPE would work for you, but that isn't the point. How can you build a business model around selling a service with self-install variables? I would think you need to sell a best effort service such that the customer doesn't have incorrect expectations. For customers who want guaranteed performance a professional install seems appropriate. -Matt On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: My point was they are selling a 3mbps connection that doesn't deliver... just like the cable companies and telcos... they are no different. Fluff it all up and do whatever it takes to fool the customer so they will sign up. I don't like it and I think it's dishonest. I don't like people that do business like that. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps you are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck. Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services will pop right up. That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of those that have an outdoor CPE). Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Regardless... my point is they have invested $40M and I am offering higher speeds, for less money, with less cost per CPE and AP... and I have 10x the coverage they do in my market. The GM even mentioned and if Sprint or Clearwire were to come to town with a check, we would definitely look at it... which means, once again, they are not in it for the long haul... and their customer service, and quality of service, will show that the longer they are in business. They are looking for the buyout to take their money (and profit) and run. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: Actually, most of that $40M would have been for spectrum acquisition, which in the accounting world is marked as an asset. They also constructed a major NOC center. The wireless hardware is a small minority of the spending. Patrick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis
Re: [WISPA] Future
We too rely heavily on software for determining the serviceability of the customer. As part of this our software takes into account not only antenna height and ground data, but also performs longley-rice loss calculations that include fresnel clearance, EIRP, antenna patterns and various atmospheric metrics. Even with this level of sophistication the software gets it wrong some of the time. The data is either out of date or simply not high enough resolution. Regardless, the fact that Travis ordered the service and got something that doesn't match what he ordered tells us one of two things. Either they are not following your bible or your bible in this case is wrong. Again, regardless the problem with self-installs stays the same. How does one build a business model that allows for these exceptions. Should the company terminate Travis's services or discount them? -Matt On Apr 22, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: Good question Matt. The way this is addressed with our major customers is with radio network planning. One of the services we do that each major customer has used is to perform a major coverage analysis using the most current clutter data and a software package called Hexagon. The analysis is done in complete conjunction with development of the business plan, since there are many variables to measure from what services to what scale to what range to what percentage planned for self-install versus outdoor CPE, not to mention the basics such as cell height, etc. We are able to provide these guys with a document that is both a technical instruction and a sales and marketing doc. The deliverable tells an operator with better than 98% certainty (and this has been proven out in EVERY case) EXACTLY which addresses can be served at what data rates with what CPE. It is far more than just a coverage plan. This plan is something that is the bible of the operator, since they should never install a client outside the boundaries of this doc. So pretty much all the variables are accounted for and there is no guess work. All this contributes to extremely high satisfaction rates so far and virtually no support calls (a data point that DBC measures carefully and is able to benchmark it against years in previous CLEC business). There is a public presentation somewhere that I will link to if I can find it that reveals some of the interesting data gathered so far. One of the most interesting for us is that our 802.16e WiMAX operators we have in North America (at least those we know that have shared this data with us) has at least doubled take rates. One beat it by 10x. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:42 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future For all the props Patrick is giving them for a self-install CPE it would seem that the link budget isn't there for the service you ordered. Most likely a professionally installed outdoor CPE would work for you, but that isn't the point. How can you build a business model around selling a service with self-install variables? I would think you need to sell a best effort service such that the customer doesn't have incorrect expectations. For customers who want guaranteed performance a professional install seems appropriate. -Matt On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: My point was they are selling a 3mbps connection that doesn't deliver... just like the cable companies and telcos... they are no different. Fluff it all up and do whatever it takes to fool the customer so they will sign up. I don't like it and I think it's dishonest. I don't like people that do business like that. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps you are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck. Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services will pop right up. That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you are one of those that have an outdoor CPE). Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:55 AM To: WISPA General
Re: [WISPA] Future
5 meter resolution and current. Typical local construction is also accounted for. It has been very accurate (beyond our expectation). Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future We too rely heavily on software for determining the serviceability of the customer. As part of this our software takes into account not only antenna height and ground data, but also performs longley-rice loss calculations that include fresnel clearance, EIRP, antenna patterns and various atmospheric metrics. Even with this level of sophistication the software gets it wrong some of the time. The data is either out of date or simply not high enough resolution. Regardless, the fact that Travis ordered the service and got something that doesn't match what he ordered tells us one of two things. Either they are not following your bible or your bible in this case is wrong. Again, regardless the problem with self-installs stays the same. How does one build a business model that allows for these exceptions. Should the company terminate Travis's services or discount them? -Matt On Apr 22, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: Good question Matt. The way this is addressed with our major customers is with radio network planning. One of the services we do that each major customer has used is to perform a major coverage analysis using the most current clutter data and a software package called Hexagon. The analysis is done in complete conjunction with development of the business plan, since there are many variables to measure from what services to what scale to what range to what percentage planned for self-install versus outdoor CPE, not to mention the basics such as cell height, etc. We are able to provide these guys with a document that is both a technical instruction and a sales and marketing doc. The deliverable tells an operator with better than 98% certainty (and this has been proven out in EVERY case) EXACTLY which addresses can be served at what data rates with what CPE. It is far more than just a coverage plan. This plan is something that is the bible of the operator, since they should never install a client outside the boundaries of this doc. So pretty much all the variables are accounted for and there is no guess work. All this contributes to extremely high satisfaction rates so far and virtually no support calls (a data point that DBC measures carefully and is able to benchmark it against years in previous CLEC business). There is a public presentation somewhere that I will link to if I can find it that reveals some of the interesting data gathered so far. One of the most interesting for us is that our 802.16e WiMAX operators we have in North America (at least those we know that have shared this data with us) has at least doubled take rates. One beat it by 10x. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:42 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future For all the props Patrick is giving them for a self-install CPE it would seem that the link budget isn't there for the service you ordered. Most likely a professionally installed outdoor CPE would work for you, but that isn't the point. How can you build a business model around selling a service with self-install variables? I would think you need to sell a best effort service such that the customer doesn't have incorrect expectations. For customers who want guaranteed performance a professional install seems appropriate. -Matt On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Travis Johnson wrote: My point was they are selling a 3mbps connection that doesn't deliver... just like the cable companies and telcos... they are no different. Fluff it all up and do whatever it takes to fool the customer so they will sign up. I don't like it and I think it's dishonest. I don't like people that do business like that. Travis Microserv Patrick Leary wrote: One point you need to remember Travis is that that barely 1 mbps you are getting is with a self-install CPE that was either mailed to you or you picked in a retail shop, correct? If so, you likely had it up and running in under 5 minutes and they did not have to roll a truck. Chances are, you can also take that CPE anywhere with you around town and it will connect. You can also pop out the SIM card and pop in into any other Alvarion self-install CPE in town and your specific services will pop right up. That 1 mbps you are getting through your wall is certainly better than any neighboring fixed outdoor 900 MHz Canopy connection in both average up and down steam that I have seen and it uses a smaller channel AND goes through your wall AND required no truck roll (unless you
Re: [WISPA] Household WiFi router?
Jonathan, Are you in the US? When I went to Buffalo's website, they say the injunction is still in force and they can't sell to the US market. Do you have a particular model number in mind? On April 21, at 6:47 PM April 21, Jonathan Schmidt wrote: I've used the same list and when I got to Buffalo I stopped. I have installed wireless routers and bridges (especially to IQeye hi-res cameras w/multi-megapixel images) and these never had been rebooted in a year and a half...and, the connection is like a wire...no lockups, no hiccups, no strange incidents. Like a wire. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Shielded CAT5 connectors
http://www.blackbox.com/Catalog/Detail.aspx?cid=45,84,867mid=3954 FMTP5ES-250PAK 250 Connectors for $197.95 Thanks, -Russ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry A Weidig Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Shielded CAT5 connectors Recently there was a discussion about shielded CAT5 cable and specifically Shireen. We ordered a couple of boxes to check it out and seems to be working. Where are people buying shielded CAT5 connectors at a good price? We would likely order them 500 at a time, but I have not found anything under about $0.75/connector. Are people using the shielded connectors? * Larry A. Weidig ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Future
To follow up on the quote below- You'll have ups downs, but don't listen to the fear inside your head. I would listen very closely to the fear inside your head. Don't let it paralyze you, but listen to it. Fear is a great motivator and often prevents us from doing some very foolish things. I once saw Pat Parelli, the great horse trainer, lead an absolutely wild horse into a closed corral with him. Horses are big, dangerous animals that can easily kill you if you make a mistake. As the horse stormed around him he said Do I have butterflies in my stomach? You better believe I have butterflies in my stomach. The difference between me and the average guy is that I've taught my butterflies to fly in formation. Most entrepreneurs Ive met are driven by the fear of lack of success, not necessarily the fear of failure (the two are different)or the fear of loss of capital. You just have to focus that fear and push ahead. chris - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] Future What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Sale: Tsunami and Enterasys equipment
We have the following equipment available for shipment: Tsunami 45m full duplex radio 301-27710-1A1/301-27710-1A2 (5.7/5.8g) Tsunami 100m full duplex radio 301-27720-1A1/301-27720-1A2 (5.3/5.8g) Multiple Enterasys SSR8 with controller boards and fast ethernet cards Multiple Enterasys SSR16 with controller boards, fast Ethernet and HSSI Multiple Enterasys ANG1105 and ANG1100 The Tsunami radios were removed from service recently as we needed higher bandwidth backhauls. Radios do NOT come with antennas. If interested in any of the above, please contact us off-list at 703-787-7700 x6130 or via e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] for particular details and quantity available. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Future
Chuck: Depends on the frequency, channel size, type of service delivery ( fixed or mobile ), urban environment, suburban or rural, mimo, diversity YMMV is always the case with wimax. :) - Jeff On Apr 21, 2008, at 10:01 AM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: Patrick, If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say: 2 miles los? 2 miles wooded? 5 m los? 5 m nlos? 10 m los? 10 m nlos ?? Is this a fair question? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I did it in numerous analyst and press interviews. WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMax as hyped by the press is dead. No? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly on the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it). The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special dispensation or what. All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That will erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and capital intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many folks prefer to deal with us vs a large public traded company. Superior customer service and support will always retain the customer. The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drop the balls. They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base from DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the house as well as they could. They will continue to get in a tighter and tighter cash situation from satellite TV pressing from one side and the ILEC FTTH (and us) from the other. In the meantime, we add VOIP, computer repair, data backup, web development, OTA HDTV install and maint, etc as cross sell and up sell opportunities. All of us can offer triple play if we team up with DirecTV or OTA HDTV. OTA HDTV is a wonderful opportunity for the next 18 months for the value conscious customer. Stock UHF TV antennas and converter boxes and help folks get their analog TVs converted over. Less work than a WISP install and you will lock in the customer even more with superior customer service. You can rent them the gear for $5/month and make it a low cost package. In 5 years hopefully your investment will be a cash cow and you will ride this horse until it dies.
Re: [WISPA] Future
Chuck, Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products. Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the licenseholders are. - Jeff On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: Patrick, Excellent point on channel sizes! So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? , 5.X, 3.6 (we are in a big exclusion zone.) I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers. Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes? Would it use the same channel sizes? Would it help with range and capacity? Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent? In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Patrick, If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say: 2 miles los? 2 miles wooded? 5 m los? 5 m nlos? 10 m los? 10 m nlos ?? Is this a fair question? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I did it in numerous analyst and press interviews. WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMax as hyped by the press is dead. No? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly on the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it). The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special dispensation or what. All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That will erode market share for WISPs in some areas. This is a slow and capital intensive process so no reason to get jumpy on that. Plus many folks prefer to deal with us vs a large public traded company. Superior customer service and support will always retain the customer. The cable companies will continue to shoot themselves in the foot and drop the balls. They are sooo freaked out by the erosion of customer base from DirecTV that they are not managing the IP side of the
Re: [WISPA] Future
Chris... I'm agreeing with you when I say that what I was trying to get across is that there is opportunity for smaller operators even when the giant operators are around, and even in your area, and even charging less than you are. You have to understand your market(s) and take risks sometimes. In the beginning, the risk is larger. As you grow, you can afford to take less risk, but it is still there. Understand it, and look it in the eye. I got shocked once by electricity that threw me onto my butt 20 feet back. Now I respect electricity, but that doesn't keep me from working with it. Same thing as your horse story below. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: chris cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future To follow up on the quote below- You'll have ups downs, but don't listen to the fear inside your head. I would listen very closely to the fear inside your head. Don't let it paralyze you, but listen to it. Fear is a great motivator and often prevents us from doing some very foolish things. I once saw Pat Parelli, the great horse trainer, lead an absolutely wild horse into a closed corral with him. Horses are big, dangerous animals that can easily kill you if you make a mistake. As the horse stormed around him he said Do I have butterflies in my stomach? You better believe I have butterflies in my stomach. The difference between me and the average guy is that I've taught my butterflies to fly in formation. Most entrepreneurs Ive met are driven by the fear of lack of success, not necessarily the fear of failure (the two are different)or the fear of loss of capital. You just have to focus that fear and push ahead. chris - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] Future What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years? -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Future
Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel? Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on say a 10 meg client? What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)? What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products. Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the licenseholders are. - Jeff On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: Patrick, Excellent point on channel sizes! So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? , 5.X, 3.6 (we are in a big exclusion zone.) I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers. Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes? Would it use the same channel sizes? Would it help with range and capacity? Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent? In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Patrick, If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say: 2 miles los? 2 miles wooded? 5 m los? 5 m nlos? 10 m los? 10 m nlos ?? Is this a fair question? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I did it in numerous analyst and press interviews. WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMax as hyped by the press is dead. No? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly on the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it). The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone and limited amounts of data. Great propagation. Problem with 700 MHz is that the size of the antenna will be problematic for really small cell phones. Less gain than the current 900 and 1800 antennas for the same physical sizes. Also there will be a few years of implementation due to moving some existing TV stations. And some of them are not moving for some reason. I don't know if they get a special dispensation or what. All ILECs will continue to build out with fiber to the home. That will
Re: [WISPA] Future
That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy. 20 MHz channels. 128:1 (or less) over subscription 10 Mbps First AP and BH would be in the $5K range Second AP would be in the $2K range. (depending on antennas etc). We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do. Smaller channels. More speed. (more money too). - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel? Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on say a 10 meg client? What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)? What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products. Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the licenseholders are. - Jeff On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: Patrick, Excellent point on channel sizes! So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? , 5.X, 3.6 (we are in a big exclusion zone.) I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers. Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes? Would it use the same channel sizes? Would it help with range and capacity? Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent? In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Patrick, If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say: 2 miles los? 2 miles wooded? 5 m los? 5 m nlos? 10 m los? 10 m nlos ?? Is this a fair question? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I did it in numerous analyst and press interviews. WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMax as hyped by the press is dead. No? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly on the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it). The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium for folks on the go. Cell does not want to squander the bandwidth to go after the value driven customer that love us so much. Cell is and will not be value leader for fixed wireless. technologies. 700 MHz is just not going to be used for anything other than more cell spectrum. The bands are narrow. Good for phone
Re: [WISPA] Future
Chuck, What speeds do you sell to your end customers at 128:1 oversub? (I am assuming that you never really go this high!) :) ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy. 20 MHz channels. 128:1 (or less) over subscription 10 Mbps First AP and BH would be in the $5K range Second AP would be in the $2K range. (depending on antennas etc). We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do. Smaller channels. More speed. (more money too). - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel? Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on say a 10 meg client? What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)? What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products. Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the licenseholders are. - Jeff On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: Patrick, Excellent point on channel sizes! So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? , 5.X, 3.6 (we are in a big exclusion zone.) I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers. Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes? Would it use the same channel sizes? Would it help with range and capacity? Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent? In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Patrick, If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say: 2 miles los? 2 miles wooded? 5 m los? 5 m nlos? 10 m los? 10 m nlos ?? Is this a fair question? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I did it in numerous analyst and press interviews. WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMax as hyped by the press is dead. No? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly on the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it). The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium service and not well suited to compete with us for point to multi point fixed wireless. It will never live up to the hype. All the cell data technologies will remain premium
Re: [WISPA] Future
We sell 10.2 Mbps burst service. And most of them actually get that speed. If they start streaming or downloading a large file, we throttle them down. Most are at 768. When the stream or download stops, they go back to wide open throttle. Customers love it. - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, What speeds do you sell to your end customers at 128:1 oversub? (I am assuming that you never really go this high!) :) ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy. 20 MHz channels. 128:1 (or less) over subscription 10 Mbps First AP and BH would be in the $5K range Second AP would be in the $2K range. (depending on antennas etc). We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do. Smaller channels. More speed. (more money too). - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel? Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on say a 10 meg client? What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)? What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products. Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the licenseholders are. - Jeff On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: Patrick, Excellent point on channel sizes! So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? , 5.X, 3.6 (we are in a big exclusion zone.) I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers. Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes? Would it use the same channel sizes? Would it help with range and capacity? Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent? In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Patrick, If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say: 2 miles los? 2 miles wooded? 5 m los? 5 m nlos? 10 m los? 10 m nlos ?? Is this a fair question? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I did it in numerous analyst and press interviews. WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMax as hyped by the press is dead. No? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly on the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it). The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Re: [WISPA] Future
What do you use for throttling? Cisco policing? Mikrotik? Chuck McCown wrote: We sell 10.2 Mbps burst service. And most of them actually get that speed. If they start streaming or downloading a large file, we throttle them down. Most are at 768. When the stream or download stops, they go back to wide open throttle. Customers love it. - Original Message - From: "D. Ryan Spott" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, What speeds do you sell to your end customers at 128:1 oversub? (I am assuming that you never really go this high!) :) ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy. 20 MHz channels. 128:1 (or less) over subscription 10 Mbps First AP and BH would be in the $5K range Second AP would be in the $2K range. (depending on antennas etc). We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do. Smaller channels. More speed. (more money too). - Original Message - From: "Mike Hammett" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel? Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on say a 10 meg client? What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)? What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Jeff Booher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products. Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the licenseholders are. - Jeff On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: Patrick, Excellent point on channel sizes! So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? , 5.X, 3.6 (we are in a big exclusion zone.) I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers. Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes? Would it use the same channel sizes? Would it help with range and capacity? Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent? In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Patrick, If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say: 2 miles los? 2 miles wooded? 5 m los? 5 m nlos? 10 m los? 10 m nlos ?? Is this a fair question? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great headaches. The stupid "70 miles 30 mbps" was the most absurd bit of hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I did it in numerous analyst and press interviews. WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMax as hyped by the press is dead. No? - Original Message - From: "Patrick Leary" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly on the "WiMAX is dead" part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it). The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have
Re: [WISPA] Future
It is built into the Motorola Canopy platform. The AP and the SM do the throttling. - Original Message - From: Randy Cosby To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:48 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future What do you use for throttling? Cisco policing? Mikrotik? Chuck McCown wrote: We sell 10.2 Mbps burst service. And most of them actually get that speed. If they start streaming or downloading a large file, we throttle them down. Most are at 768. When the stream or download stops, they go back to wide open throttle. Customers love it. - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, What speeds do you sell to your end customers at 128:1 oversub? (I am assuming that you never really go this high!) :) ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy. 20 MHz channels. 128:1 (or less) over subscription 10 Mbps First AP and BH would be in the $5K range Second AP would be in the $2K range. (depending on antennas etc). We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do. Smaller channels. More speed. (more money too). - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel? Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on say a 10 meg client? What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)? What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products. Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the licenseholders are. - Jeff On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: Patrick, Excellent point on channel sizes! So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? , 5.X, 3.6 (we are in a big exclusion zone.) I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers. Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes? Would it use the same channel sizes? Would it help with range and capacity? Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent? In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Patrick, If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say: 2 miles los? 2 miles wooded? 5 m los? 5 m nlos? 10 m los? 10 m nlos ?? Is this a fair question? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I did it in numerous analyst and press interviews. WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMax as hyped by the press is dead. No? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly on the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date
Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity
Mike, et al, As Jeff implied about coverage (and costs), with WiMAX it is all about diversity so let me try to explain it a bit. It is not so simple as one AP or two. In WiMAX you have IDUs and ODUs. In our case, one IDU can serve many different configurations since it have 4 ports on the IDU and supports up to 4th order diversity. So here is what each level of diversity actually looks like in terms of configuration: Single channel, no diversity - This is the basic configuration and the one WISPs have always deployed. Each AU-IDU connects to one ODU serving a single sector with a directional antenna. AU/IDU ODUSector + + + + + --+ O +---+ + + O ---/ + + \---+ O + + O + + O + + + + O + + + + + O + + + + + Multiple channels per AU, no diversity - Can be like above or two or three or four channels. Example shows four channels - AU/IDU ODU 1 Sector antenna 1 Ch.1-4 + + + + + --+ O +---+ + + O ---/ + + \---+ O + + O +-\ + O + + + + O +-\\ + + + + O +-\\\ + + + \\\--ODU 2sector antenna 2 + \\ \\--ODU 3sector antenna 3 \ \--ODU 4sector antenna 4 Second order diversity - One sector with space diversity. Two AU-ODU channels 1 2. Same frequency and transmit power. Same AU-IDU share a common MAC and modem. AU/IDU ODU 1 Antenna 1 Ch.12Sector 1 + + + + + --- O + + + O ---/ + + \ O + + O --\ + O + + + + O + \ + + + + O + \ + + +\ both sectors cover same area + \ )) so both function as part of one sector \ ODU 2 Antenna 2 \Sector 1 \+ + - O + + + + \ O + + O + + + + + + + Fourth order diversity - Single sector. Single AU-IDU with 4 ODUs. Space and polarization diversities using dual polarization slant antennas. Channels 1 and 2 form one pair, channels 3 and 4 form one pair. Same frequency and transmit power are set for all four ODUs. Common MAC and modem. AU/IDU ODU 1 Antenna 1 Ch.1-4 Sector 1 (dual pole) + + + + + --- O + + + O ---/ + + \-- O + + O --\ + O + /--- O + + O --\\ + / + + + O --\\\ /+ both dual pole antennas + + \\\--ODU 2/Sector 2 Antenna 2) function together in a + \\ (dual pole) single sector \\--ODU 3/Sector 1---\ + \\ + + \--ODU 4/Sector 2--\ \-- O + \--- O + + + + Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel? Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on say a 10 meg client? What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)? What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products. Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the licenseholders are. - Jeff On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: Patrick, Excellent point on channel sizes! So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? , 5.X, 3.6 (we are in a big exclusion zone.) I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers. Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes? Would it use the same channel sizes? Would it help with range and capacity? Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent? In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Monday, April 21,
Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity
So what does all the below mean in practice? Well, a typical arrangement, at least for our customers, in the 2.5 GHz band is 3 sectors of 4th order diversity. That means one chassis with 3 blades. Each of the blades has 4 ports. All 4 ports are used. That translates into three AU IDUs and 12 ODUs and 6 antennas dual pole antennas that comprise the 3 sectors. Now you may be getting a sense of the complexity and why the question of How much for one AP to one sector? is not really applicable since one 4-port AU can feed a complete cell with 4 90 degree sectors, but that same AU can scale to feed all its channels and capacity into a single sector. With each added level of diversity, the translation is better link budgets (less cells) with increased capacity. Fourth order diversity over no diversity adds 12 dB up and 6 dB down in terms of improved link budgets. This is not generally used to increase range so much as it is to increase link reliability at range. Our expectation is that our 3.65 GHz deployments will mostly have a standard configuration of 3 sectors with 2nd order diversity, except in a high urban deployment (such as a Tower Stream type model), which is more likely to have 4th order diversity to improve the range and number of self-install CPE that can be deployed. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity Mike, et al, As Jeff implied about coverage (and costs), with WiMAX it is all about diversity so let me try to explain it a bit. It is not so simple as one AP or two. In WiMAX you have IDUs and ODUs. In our case, one IDU can serve many different configurations since it have 4 ports on the IDU and supports up to 4th order diversity. So here is what each level of diversity actually looks like in terms of configuration: Single channel, no diversity - This is the basic configuration and the one WISPs have always deployed. Each AU-IDU connects to one ODU serving a single sector with a directional antenna. AU/IDU ODUSector + + + + + --+ O +---+ + + O ---/ + + \---+ O + + O + + O + + + + O + + + + + O + + + + + Multiple channels per AU, no diversity - Can be like above or two or three or four channels. Example shows four channels - AU/IDU ODU 1 Sector antenna 1 Ch.1-4 + + + + + --+ O +---+ + + O ---/ + + \---+ O + + O +-\ + O + + + + O +-\\ + + + + O +-\\\ + + + \\\--ODU 2sector antenna 2 + \\ \\--ODU 3sector antenna 3 \ \--ODU 4sector antenna 4 Second order diversity - One sector with space diversity. Two AU-ODU channels 1 2. Same frequency and transmit power. Same AU-IDU share a common MAC and modem. AU/IDU ODU 1 Antenna 1 Ch.12Sector 1 + + + + + --- O + + + O ---/ + + \ O + + O --\ + O + + + + O + \ + + + + O + \ + + +\ both sectors cover same area + \ )) so both function as part of one sector \ ODU 2 Antenna 2 \Sector 1 \+ + - O + + + + \ O + + O + + + + + + + Fourth order diversity - Single sector. Single AU-IDU with 4 ODUs. Space and polarization diversities using dual polarization slant antennas. Channels 1 and 2 form one pair, channels 3 and 4 form one pair. Same frequency and transmit power are set for all four ODUs. Common MAC and modem. AU/IDU ODU 1 Antenna 1 Ch.1-4 Sector 1 (dual pole) + + + + + --- O + + + O ---/ + + \-- O + + O --\ + O + /--- O + + O --\\ + / + + + O --\\\ /+ both dual pole antennas + + \\\--ODU 2/Sector 2 Antenna 2) function together in a + \\ (dual pole) single sector \\--ODU 3/Sector 1---\ + \\ + + \--ODU 4/Sector 2--\ \-- O + \--- O + + + + Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject:
Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity
I have made a brief ppt that illustrates the examples below much more clearly. It has no product info, no messaging and no detailed explanations...it is just a pictorial representation of the below type of diversity. If you want it, hit me OFFLIST. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity So what does all the below mean in practice? Well, a typical arrangement, at least for our customers, in the 2.5 GHz band is 3 sectors of 4th order diversity. That means one chassis with 3 blades. Each of the blades has 4 ports. All 4 ports are used. That translates into three AU IDUs and 12 ODUs and 6 antennas dual pole antennas that comprise the 3 sectors. Now you may be getting a sense of the complexity and why the question of How much for one AP to one sector? is not really applicable since one 4-port AU can feed a complete cell with 4 90 degree sectors, but that same AU can scale to feed all its channels and capacity into a single sector. With each added level of diversity, the translation is better link budgets (less cells) with increased capacity. Fourth order diversity over no diversity adds 12 dB up and 6 dB down in terms of improved link budgets. This is not generally used to increase range so much as it is to increase link reliability at range. Our expectation is that our 3.65 GHz deployments will mostly have a standard configuration of 3 sectors with 2nd order diversity, except in a high urban deployment (such as a Tower Stream type model), which is more likely to have 4th order diversity to improve the range and number of self-install CPE that can be deployed. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future - a brief explanation on diversity Mike, et al, As Jeff implied about coverage (and costs), with WiMAX it is all about diversity so let me try to explain it a bit. It is not so simple as one AP or two. In WiMAX you have IDUs and ODUs. In our case, one IDU can serve many different configurations since it have 4 ports on the IDU and supports up to 4th order diversity. So here is what each level of diversity actually looks like in terms of configuration: Single channel, no diversity - This is the basic configuration and the one WISPs have always deployed. Each AU-IDU connects to one ODU serving a single sector with a directional antenna. AU/IDU ODUSector + + + + + --+ O +---+ + + O ---/ + + \---+ O + + O + + O + + + + O + + + + + O + + + + + Multiple channels per AU, no diversity - Can be like above or two or three or four channels. Example shows four channels - AU/IDU ODU 1 Sector antenna 1 Ch.1-4 + + + + + --+ O +---+ + + O ---/ + + \---+ O + + O +-\ + O + + + + O +-\\ + + + + O +-\\\ + + + \\\--ODU 2sector antenna 2 + \\ \\--ODU 3sector antenna 3 \ \--ODU 4sector antenna 4 Second order diversity - One sector with space diversity. Two AU-ODU channels 1 2. Same frequency and transmit power. Same AU-IDU share a common MAC and modem. AU/IDU ODU 1 Antenna 1 Ch.12Sector 1 + + + + + --- O + + + O ---/ + + \ O + + O --\ + O + + + + O + \ + + + + O + \ + + +\ both sectors cover same area + \ )) so both function as part of one sector \ ODU 2 Antenna 2 \Sector 1 \+ + - O + + + + \ O + + O + + + + + + + Fourth order diversity - Single sector. Single AU-IDU with 4 ODUs. Space and polarization diversities using dual polarization slant antennas. Channels 1 and 2 form one pair, channels 3 and 4 form one pair. Same frequency and transmit power are set for all four ODUs. Common MAC and modem. AU/IDU ODU 1 Antenna 1 Ch.1-4 Sector 1 (dual pole) + + + + + --- O + + + O ---/ + + \-- O + + O --\ + O + /--- O + + O --\\ + / + + + O --\\\ /+ both dual pole antennas + + \\\--ODU 2/Sector 2 Antenna 2) function together in a + \\ (dual pole) single sector \\--ODU 3/Sector 1---\
[WISPA] Fw: Senate Considers Striking Down 'Common Carrier' Exception
Senate Considers Striking Down 'Common Carrier' Exception The wireless industry is expected to fight hard against repealing a rule that exempts telecommunications providers from the requirements of the FTC Act. By Richard Martin InformationWeek April 14, 2008 01:42 PM Seeking to bring more transparency and consumer-friendliness to the U.S. mobile and wireless industry, two U.S. senators have introduced a bill that would for the first time bring wireless carriers under the authority of the Federal Trade Commission. Specifically the new bill -- the FTC Reauthorization Act of 2008, co-sponsored by Hawaii Democrat Daniel Inouye, chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, and Byron Dorgan, a Democrat from North Dakota and the chairman of the Interstate Commerce, Trade, and Tourism Subcommittee -- would repeal the common carrier exception, which has been in force since the 1930s and exempts big telecommunications providers from the requirements of the FTC Act. The Dorgan/Inouye bill repeals this exemption, allowing the Commission to protect consumers from unfair and deceptive acts or practices by telecommunications common carriers, particularly in the areas of advertising, marketing, and billing, according to a joint statement outlining the bill's provisions. Facing a raft of federal legislation that would increase government oversight of its contracts and marketing practices, the wireless industry is expected to fight hard against repealing the common carrier exception. Testifying before the Senate Commerce Committee last week, FTC Chairman William Kovacic said that the common carrier exemption, which dates from the era of highly regulated telecom monopolies -- is obsolete. Technological advances have blurred the traditional boundaries between telecommunications, entertainment and high technology, stated Kovacic in his prepared statement. As the telecommunications and Internet industries continue to converge, the common carrier exemption is likely to frustrate the FTC's ability to stop deceptive and unfair acts and unfair practices and unfair methods of competition. Among the congressional attempts to shorten the regulatory reins on the industry is a bill introduced last year by Sen. Amy Klobuchar, Dem.-Minn., called the Cell Phone Consumer Empowerment Act. Included in that measure's provisions is a requirement that wireless carriers pro-rate early termination fees, which are viewed by consumer advocates as locking customers into restrictive contracts, regardless of the quality of service. Under the Klobuchar act, for example, a customer ending a two-year contract after the end of the first year would pay only half the normal termination fee. Seeking to head off such legislative mandates, the U.S. wireless carriers have already begun moving toward pro-rated termination fees. Last month ATT (NYSE: T), the No. 1 U.S. wireless carrier, became the latest provider to announce it would adjust the fees, beginning in May. The ATT move needs to be followed by other reasonable reforms that will provide consumers the freedom of choice they deserve in the wireless marketplace, Sen. Klobuchar said in a statement. I will continue to push for the cell phone consumer 'Bill of Rights' to help modernize the rules governing this industry and make sure consumers are getting a fair deal. The FTC Reauthorization Act would also increase the Commission's budget by 10% in each of the next seven years. Discuss This 1 message(s). Last at: Apr 15, 2008 11:58:59 AM bucketofsquid commented on Apr 15, 2008 11:58:59 AM It is nice to see that not all politicians are scum. Too bad the same isn't true of telecom companies. What I want to know is; why is any business exempted from prosecution for fraud? Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1 - Release Date: 3/26/2008 12:00 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Future
Well Mike, the way I see it is that the sky has been falling my entire time as an ISP (over a decade now). WiMax is still a joke in the market place. 3G is too slow and too expensive. 700 is not deployed in any level that matters and doesn't look like it will be any time soon. Cable is in trouble because they are dying under the load of the high end users they they keep getting. They need all of the capacity they can come up with for HDTV channels but broadband is taking up too much space on the coax. They also JUST put in their networks. The big companies aren't structured to reinvest in new hardware every few years. I'd say that they will continue to grow and continue to piss off their base. I'm not worried about cable. As for ATT and Verizon? People already hate the service and prices they have, so far I can sell against them. Fiber is cool, I have FTTH customers. But man is it expensive! There's just no way to ever make the investment back at today's pricing levels. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] Future What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years? ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?) Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?) Cable will be using DOCSIS 3 3G will gain more steam WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are. My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid the niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better services with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV white spaces) and WiMAX. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Future
I just got back a customer that left us for sat service. Took less than a year for him to come back (and he left because he got mad at me, not because of the service so you know the service had to really suck). marlon - Original Message - From: Tom Warfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future You forgot satellite which is picking up steam. Honestly. Now is the time to sell! (hence one of the reasons I sold last month.) Unless your servicing very rural area with almost no population. -Original Message- From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 5:44 PM To: WISPA List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Future What do you see as the future of our industry over the next 5 years? ATT is expanding U-Verse (will this be available outside of town?) Verizon is expanding FiOS (will this be available outside of town?) Cable will be using DOCSIS 3 3G will gain more steam WiMAX will have larger and larger shares of the market 700 MHz will be in use possibly for data communications by the big guys My banker asked me, so I figured I'd see what other's opinions are. My thought is that the big guys mentioned above will continue to avoid the niche that we currently serve and we'll be able to provide better services with more spectrum (5.4 GHz, additional 2.5 GHz, 3.6 GHz, possibly TV white spaces) and WiMAX. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ [The entire original message is not included] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Future
You're doing all those (including price) on Canopy? What's the net throughput available on Canopy? I'm not dissatisfied with my Mikrotik system at all, but more spectrally efficient gear is always good, especially on new deployments. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy. 20 MHz channels. 128:1 (or less) over subscription 10 Mbps First AP and BH would be in the $5K range Second AP would be in the $2K range. (depending on antennas etc). We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do. Smaller channels. More speed. (more money too). - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel? Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on say a 10 meg client? What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)? What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products. Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the licenseholders are. - Jeff On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: Patrick, Excellent point on channel sizes! So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? , 5.X, 3.6 (we are in a big exclusion zone.) I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers. Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes? Would it use the same channel sizes? Would it help with range and capacity? Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent? In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Patrick, If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say: 2 miles los? 2 miles wooded? 5 m los? 5 m nlos? 10 m los? 10 m nlos ?? Is this a fair question? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I did it in numerous analyst and press interviews. WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMax as hyped by the press is dead. No? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly on the WiMAX is dead part -- we have sold over $100M to date of it). The main takeaway with Chuck's post is that WISPs will have strong opportunities for a long time to come, and I agree 110%. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown - 2 Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:26 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMAX was dead, is dead and will remain dead. OK, not factually true but emotionally true. The cell companies will use WiMax frequencies and technologies but they will be a premium
Re: [WISPA] Future
oh, I was meaning a regular 10 meg service. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future We sell 10.2 Mbps burst service. And most of them actually get that speed. If they start streaming or downloading a large file, we throttle them down. Most are at 768. When the stream or download stops, they go back to wide open throttle. Customers love it. - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, What speeds do you sell to your end customers at 128:1 oversub? (I am assuming that you never really go this high!) :) ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future That is pretty much what we do on Motorola Canopy. 20 MHz channels. 128:1 (or less) over subscription 10 Mbps First AP and BH would be in the $5K range Second AP would be in the $2K range. (depending on antennas etc). We are waiting to see what the OFDM product will do. Smaller channels. More speed. (more money too). - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Anyone doing a 20 MHz channel? Would that be enough capacity to allow for typical oversubscription on say a 10 meg client? What does it cost to get the first AP up ($5k, $15k, $50k)? What does it cost to get additional APs up ($2k, $10k, $30k)? -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Booher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Chuck, Airspan / Aperto are both shipping 5x Ghz wimax products. Throughput is about 26mb peak for the Airspan product on 10mhz channels, and 22mb on the Aperto product in 7mhz channels. Also, there are ways to get around the exclusion zones, if you find out who the licenseholders are. - Jeff On Apr 21, 2008, at 1:20 PM, CHUCK PROFITO wrote: Patrick, Excellent point on channel sizes! So if WiMAX is released in unlicensed frequencies of 900, 2.4? , 5.X, 3.6 (we are in a big exclusion zone.) I imagine if you deployed in 2.4 it would smoke the home routers. Would our capacity double for the same channel sizes? Would it use the same channel sizes? Would it help with range and capacity? Will WiMax help tree penetration? Can Physics be bent? In legacy deployments, would or could it improve our back hauls? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of CHUCK PROFITO Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future Patrick, If not 70 miles and 30 mbps, what are the real numbers on the fixed, for say: 2 miles los? 2 miles wooded? 5 m los? 5 m nlos? 10 m los? 10 m nlos ?? Is this a fair question? Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:14 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future The press has been wrong most of time, causing companies like ours great headaches. The stupid 70 miles 30 mbps was the most absurd bit of hyperbole that the press picked up and repeated endlessly. Meanwhile, Mo Shakouri (the Marketing VP of the WiMAX Forum and an Alvarion exec) was trying to dispel that at every turn (I sat in on many of his public sessions). Others of us also were trying to correct the expectations. I did it in numerous analyst and press interviews. WiMAX is also doing well overseas, especially in Asia. WiMAX's greatest near term challenge in the U.S. is Sprint. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 8:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future WiMax as hyped by the press is dead. No? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Future I agree with the vast majority of what Chuck says here and only partially disagree even on the WiMAX part (though I disagree strongly
