Re: [WISPA] Anyone doing IPTV?

[Charles wyble]

support  wrote:

Anyone find a cost effective way to do IPTV yet? That is something I'm really 
wanting to get into Thanks -- Tim Steele supp...@nitline.com NITLine Support 
(574) 772-7550 ext 103 
www.NITLine.net_
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This is something I'm interested as well. Various opensource bits exist, but 
lots of drm involved. Also multicast is interesting. 
-- 
charles n wyble
Systems craftsman to the stars
Xmpp/sip/smtp char...@knownelement.com
Office: 310 929 8793
Cell: 626 539 4344


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Re: [WISPA] Internet service in Austin TX

[Charles wyble]

Chuck Hogg  wrote:

Keep in mind, it hasn't been fully marketed like they used to.  I have friends 
that switched to Clear from DSL, and after 6 months switched back because the 
AP's were loaded at night.
Regards,

Chuck


On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Rogelio  wrote:

On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Charles N Wyble
 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm going to be relocating to Austin TX (northeast. Anderson Springs
> apartment complex). Anyone out there providing net access?

Several friends of mine in Austin use Clear, and they seem very happy
with the throughput that they get around the city area.

--
Also on LinkedIn?  Feel free to connect if you too are an open
networker: scubac...@gmail.com




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Clear has worked wonderfully so far. Very happy with it. 
-- 
charles n wyble
Systems craftsman to the stars
Xmpp/sip/smtp char...@knownelement.com
Office: 310 929 8793
Cell: 626 539 4344


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Re: [WISPA] Preventing backwards router problems

[Charles Wyble]

Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote:
> How to I prevent SOHO routers from handing out bogus DHCP information
> when they are plugged in backwards?
>   

Filter them upstream?

> Also on a seperate note; long ago on this list there was a Linux
> distro that was basically a WISP management you put it on the gateway
> router and it only allowed MAC authorized clients to the internet
> everybody else was pointed to a captive portal. Does anybody remember
> this or could give me a link to it again?
>   

Chillispot? Wifi-DOG? There are a few of them.

-- 
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http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project




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Re: [WISPA] Preventing backwards router problems

[Charles Wyble]

Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Charles Wyble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote:
>> 
>>> How to I prevent SOHO routers from handing out bogus DHCP information
>>> when they are plugged in backwards?
>>>
>>>   
>> Filter them upstream?
>>
>> 
>
> How would I filter upstream? All clients go into a switch so I would
> have to filter at the switch level, what switches provide this?
>   

So what exactly did you mean by plugged in backwards? The WAN port 
instead of the LAN port?
Can you explain your architecture  a bit?
>
>>
>> 
>
> This was more of a WISP dashboard program. The captive portal stuff
> was secondary the main part of the program was more of an access
> controller. It allowed the admin to control IP's maintain MAC ACL's
>   

Ah. Well check out ZeroShell for this. Its a very cool distro. Also 
check out Untangle.

-- 
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http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project




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Re: [WISPA] Preventing backwards router problems

[Charles Wyble]

Clint Ricker wrote:
> (they aren't necessarily either/or) solutions:
> - Many APs have client isolation, which keeps traffic from one client going
> to another.  Some switches have this as well.
>   


Wouldn't all switches have this by design and during normal operation 
(various exploits to sniff traffic
non withstanding of course).
> - Doing a routed (as opposed to a bridged) network solves this problem.
>  Generally is easier to troubleshoot, as well
>   

Yep. And improves performance as a general rule.
> - PPPoE or similar between the customer premise and your network core
>   

An excellent idea.
> Thanks,
> -Clint Ricker
> Kentnis Technologies
>   




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Re: [WISPA] Preventing backwards router problems

[Charles Wyble]

Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> Just a word of caution, native Linux will only work up to a certain point
> with PPPoE/L2TP.
>
> Jeff 
Can you expand on that a bit?

I mean obviously you you need other bits to make a complete solution 
(RADIUS/DNS/DHCP  maybe some LDAP/Cert Authority/VPN). I would 
recommend Zeroshell or Untangle
for a pretty complete solution. You probably also want some routing 
capabilities and for that I would recommend Vyatta.

Is there anything lacking in the PPPoE/L2TP bits themselves on Linux? Do 
they not implement all the specs?




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Re: [WISPA] Satellite internet

[Charles Wyble]

Forrest W. Christian wrote:
> I half expect that the whole speed of light latency issue will be 
> eliminated sometime in my lifetime - that is, instantaneous 
> communication between any two points with no meaningful delay.
>   

You aren't that far off. Lots of quantum network research being done. It 
is indeed
how communication will happen in the future.




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Re: [WISPA] Wrap Boards and Support

[Charles Wyble]

ram wrote:
> Hi
>
> we are one of the ISP in india
>
> working now WISP solution to deploy Wireless as last mile for the Bussiness
> users
>
> Subsequent want to  deploy for the Home users
>
> So looking for WRAP boards/ Software and Support for the same
>
> Contact me offline for the same project
>
> Ram
>
>   

Are you familiar with http://tier.cs.berkeley.edu/wiki/Wireless ?

I think you will find it quite useful for what you are doing.

Also check out http://routerboard.com/


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Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059
http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project




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Re: [WISPA] Considering ARIN and buying our own IPs....IPv4? IPv6

[Charles Wyble]

John McDowell wrote:
> Hey guys and gals,
> We are looking at our first redundant fiber connection from a second carrier
> and feeling the need to have our own IPs so that this will work out well.
>   

Will you also be doing BGP? MPLS/OSPF traffic engineering all on your 
own? IE why do you need your own IP space?
This is what ARIN will want to know. :)
> Anybody have advice on where to start with ARIN, besides just fishing around
> on the website, and what should we be looking at buying. 

Well ARIN has the forms here:

http://www.arin.net/registration/templates/index.html

Pretty straighforward submission process

1) Create POC and ORG records.
2) Fill out and submit template.
3) 
4) Profit
> We have a little
> over 350 subs right now and growing about 30 subs/month on average. We have
> a block of 2000 IPs from AT&T.
>   

Well then it doesn't make sense to me to buy your own block at least not 
for some time.
> We want to plan for future growth, and for IPv6any advice?
>   

I am currently going through the IPv6 process with ARIN and hope to have 
it completed by end of September.



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http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project




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Re: [WISPA] Considering ARIN and buying our own IPs....IPv4? IPv6

[Charles Wyble]

Mike Hammett wrote:
> If you can justify a...  /22? then you should have your own IPs from ARIN. 
> Other than that, you can't have them.
>   

Correct. The minimum allocation has been going up. I used to control 
some /24 netblocks of portable
space. Was cool. :) 


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Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059
http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project




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Re: [WISPA] Considering ARIN and buying our own IPs....IPv4? IPv6

[Charles Wyble]

Zachery Wolfinger wrote:
> We have an IPv6 block.  Mostly just for testing right now.  You can peer up
> with Hurricane Electric over an IPv4 tunnel for testing.
>   

Yep. Tunnelbroker.net

You can get a /48 and /64.

-- 
Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059
http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project




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Re: [WISPA] Preventing backwards router problems

[Charles Wyble]

Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> Hi Charles,
>
> It's a scale issue.  I wish I could tell you exactly where it will fail, but
> there are a lot of variables.
>   

Oh certainly. The Linux kernel and user space could use a whole lot of 
tuning in many many many many places. :)

> We've been able to get 3000 plus users, but that takes a powerful system,
> lots of RAM, and a LOT of work with Linux itself.
>   

Oh yeah I can imagine. Lots of tuning required certainly. 



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Re: [WISPA] Considering ARIN and buying our own IPs....IPv4? IPv6

[Charles Wyble]

Faisal Imtiaz wrote:
> To answer the original question that was asked.
>
> Where to start:
>  Start with Arin's web site, fill out the form, send it in, and feel free to
> talk to them on the phone.
>  They may come across rather 'stiff' via email communication, howerver on
> the phone they are very helpful.
>   

Yep. I have dealt with them via e-mail and it's been pleasant so far but 
I hear that working with them on the phone is often better.
> IPv4 vs. IPv6  Well IPv4 is the defacto working standard, IPv6 is
> something we all will have to move towards a bit further down the road. I
> belive today if you ask of IPv4 they are also willing to allocate you IPv6
> space.
> It does not hurt to have the allocation.
>   

It certainly doesn't.
> For an ISP to get IP Address space allocated they have to meet one of two
> Requirements. Either show justification for a /22 or larger, or show
> intent/proof for being multi-homed running BGP.
>
>   

Yep. This is well documented at ARIN. You'll need to be multihomed 
within 30 days to get a number. I am not sure if multihomed means just 
multiple POP or multiple carriers (which could be in the same POP)

> So while you are in this process with ARIN you may also want to get your ASN
> number. Better do it now while they are still issuing Single byte word
> address (I may not be using the right lingo here) , otherwise you may ...may
> run into equipment compatibility issues. 
>   

You are correct. Get an Autonomous System number now. (ASN is redundant 
btw :)
> It is a process, but not a daunting one, don't be shy in asking them for
> help. One of their primary missions is to help the ISP's.
>
>
> Regards.
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John McDowell
> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 1:51 PM
> To: Motorola Canopy User Group; WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Considering ARIN and buying our own IPsIPv4? IPv6
>
> Hey guys and gals,
> We are looking at our first redundant fiber connection from a second carrier
> and feeling the need to have our own IPs so that this will work out well.
>
> Anybody have advice on where to start with ARIN, besides just fishing around
> on the website, and what should we be looking at buying. We have a little
> over 350 subs right now and growing about 30 subs/month on average. We have
> a block of 2000 IPs from AT&T.
>
> We want to plan for future growth, and for IPv6....any advice?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> John M. McDowell
> Boonlink Communications
> 307 Grand Ave NW
> Fort Payne, AL 35967
> 256.844.9932
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.boonlink.com
>
>   

-- 
Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059
http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project




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Re: [WISPA] routers

[Charles Wyble]

www.routerboard.com might have some useful items.


Travis Johnson wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a recommendation on an Ethernet router (two ports or 
> more) that is somewhere in between a $50 Linksys and a $500 Cisco ASA. 
> Something that will do some basic QoS would be nice. Any suggestions?
>
> thanks,
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> 
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http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project




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Re: [WISPA] routers

[Charles Wyble]

Jeromie Reeves wrote:
> Have you been changing the firmware on them? 

Ah yes I was going to mention that.
> The majority of the
> problem with consumer routers is the software is built 'fast and
> lose'. I find the WRT54G/GS units to work well once changed.

Yes a marked improvement in performance and stability.
>  Same for
> the 150/160N.

What firmware are you using on the 160N? I tried flashing it over the 
weekend and finally found one it let me upload, but I appear to have 
bricked the device. I can probably fix it via boot_wait, and would love 
to know what firmware has been used successfully to reflash with.
>  The next largest issue is that they skimp on the
> hardware resources, the 310 has 32mb ram where most other units have
> 16 or even as little as 8. That just is not enough with out a well
> produced firmware.
>   

Exactly.

-- 
Charles Wyble (818) 280 - 7059
http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
CTO Known Element Enterprises / SoCal WiFI project




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Re: [WISPA] [Tranzeo] New Update - Tranzeo/Mtik disconnect issue Oct 10th, 2008

[Charles Wyble]

Fantastic after action / forensics report! It's the best one I have 
seen, and I have seen many of them, as well as produced hundreds. Good job!



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Re: [WISPA] heavy usage customers OT: Windows updates

[Charles Wyble]

Scottie Arnett wrote:
> On another note, is their a way to cache or get a server closer to you for 
> windows updates? I have a hospital on our network that has 60+ PC's on the 
> inside. They are killing us with windows updates at certain times...like 
> Service Pack 3...?
>   

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/wsus/default.aspx might be of use.

You would also need to change the DNS record for 
windowsupdate.microsoft.com that you present to your customers to hit 
your local server.  As to the legal or technical implications (maybe 
update signatures or something) I can't speak to them.



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[WISPA] Looks like we didn't win

[Charles Wyble]

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/110408-fcc-whilte-spaces.html

:(



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Re: [WISPA] WISPA Website FCC Press Release and Commissioner Comments

[Charles Wyble]

Rick Harnish wrote:
> http://www.wispa.org/?p=311
>   


Does anyone have a link to the report and order?




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Re: [WISPA] OT election results

[Charles Wyble]

I'm glad the whitespace spectrum was approved.

I hear tell our new fearless leader wants to appoint a CIO for the 
country. That undoubtedly means even more regulation, process and red 
tape. Just read any large companies CIO blog. Ugh.

I'm hoping that WISPs will be able to bid on contracts for networks, as 
the new economy and all it's fixing the poverty line will probably 
include digital divide provisions.

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Since I've not seen any political discussions here of late I'm guessing that 
> most folks were just as discussed at the choices as I was.
>
> Anyone have any thoughts as to what the next 2 to 4 years will be like for 
> us?
>
> marlon
>
>
>
> 
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>   




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Re: [WISPA] OT election results

[Charles Wyble]

Brad,

You are 100% correct. Taxes up.

Markets haven't reacted well at all to the choice for our new leader. 
Not at all.

Brad Belton wrote:
> Well it's certainly clear that our taxes will be going up.  Hope everyone
> enjoys it.
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:17 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] OT election results
>
> Hi All,
>
> Since I've not seen any political discussions here of late I'm guessing that
>
> most folks were just as discussed at the choices as I was.
>
> Anyone have any thoughts as to what the next 2 to 4 years will be like for 
> us?
>
> marlon
>
>
>
> 
> 
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>   




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Re: [WISPA] OT election results

[Charles Wyble]

Jack Unger wrote:
> I agree 100% (or even 110%)  That is O.T.
>
> This clearly is NOT a list for political discussions but I can send you 
> a fine list of political sites where politics are discussed 24/7.
>   

Certainly. Yet a lot of the things on this list go off in various 
tangents. :)

We're just short cutting the process! LOL.

However in all seriousness you are correct.
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>   
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Since I've not seen any political discussions here of late I'm guessing that 
>> most folks were just as discussed at the choices as I was.
>>
>> Anyone have any thoughts as to what the next 2 to 4 years will be like for 
>> us?
>>
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>>
>>
>>   
>> 
>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] OT election results - probable new chairman named

[Charles Wyble]

More on FCC chairperson selection:

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2008/tc2008119_650156.htm?campaign_id=yhoo

Comments?



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Re: [WISPA] OT election results - probable new chairman named

[Charles Wyble]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The two newsarticles I found on Rivera insisted he was the top of the list 
> for chairman, both published today.
>   
:)

The one I linked to claim he isn't interested. *shrugs*
> regardless, changes in people can be profound changes in policy...  Which 
> could be helpful or lethal...
>   

Yep.
> We need to not be dependent on whims for our existence...  The shifting 
> sands of policy...
>   

I agree. However we don't really have much choice in the matter do we? 
Even with a massive lobbying
effort, it all comes down to a vote of a few people most of the time.




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Re: [WISPA] manufacturing CPE for customers

[Charles Wyble]

Andy,

Have you seen www.routerboard.com ? They have some decent CPE for less 
then 100.00.


Andy Loukes wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> iam looking some one to help me getting smalled board with low cost
>> CPE for indoor use with the support of OpenWRT
>>
>> one lan + one wan + 1 ap
>>
>> contact me offline with specs and price
>>
>> Ram
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> ---
>   
>> -
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Re: [WISPA] Vista VPN Question

[Charles Wyble]

Mike Hammett wrote:
> Is there a way to setup Vista so that only certain subnets are routed over a 
> VPN link?  It seems silly that a customer with a 16 meg Comcast connection 
> pushes all Internet traffic through the office's 2/2 connection.
>   

There is a route command you can use from the command prompt. :)

Or do it via DHCP options if your running a full DHCP server 
(Cisco,Linux,Windows NT/200(x).



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Re: [WISPA] TV Whitespaces

[Charles Wyble]

Mike Hammett wrote:
> Now that TV whitespaces have been approved for our use, let's hear from the 
> vendors.  When, how much, and what will you do with it?
>   

Indeed!

Who would the likely vendors in this space be?

Should we put an RFP together and send it around?  I sure want answers
to your questions as well.


> Ladies and gents:  I haven't read all of the published information yet, but 
> this is the second greatest battle we have come across (second only to having 
> unlicensed available in the first place) and we have won!  Congrats.  It 
> appears the portable devices are held to 100 mw of power, while we have 4 
> watts (which is pretty much what we have everywhere else).  Four watts at 
> these frequencies will carry!
>   

Yep!





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[WISPA] 3.65Ghz / 802.11y-2008

[Charles Wyble]

Now that the 802.11y-2008 standard has been finalized, what can we expect?

Will anyone be deploying gear in that spectrum? What vendors are the 
current players?

Everything I have seen in that spectrum is using Wimax.



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65Ghz / 802.11y-2008

[Charles Wyble]

Jason,

Thanks for that.

According to http://ligowave.com/?q=news/2 they aren't legal for US 
operation.

I do like the price point. I like it very much.


Jason Hensley wrote:
> Ligowave 
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Charles Wyble
> Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 2:43 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] 3.65Ghz / 802.11y-2008
>
>
> Now that the 802.11y-2008 standard has been finalized, what can we expect?
>
> Will anyone be deploying gear in that spectrum? What vendors are the current
> players?
>
> Everything I have seen in that spectrum is using Wimax.
>
>
> 
> 
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>   




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65Ghz / 802.11y-2008

[Charles Wyble]

Jason Hensley wrote:
> How do you get that from that link?  They just recently received FCC
> approval in the band, so I'm sure they're legal.  
>   

They just updated that link. I got an e-mail back from sales apologizing for
overlooking the update.  :)

Thank you for the reference. I will be talking with them and hopefully 
purchasing
some radios soon.




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Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points

[Charles Wyble]

Josh Luthman wrote:
> I am looking to see what other members use for indoor access points.
> Primarily I'm looking for a residential install and hotels.
>
> I've been using the Senao/Engenius equipment for quite a while but I have
> encountered several issues over the years and I am hoping to find a
> replacement low-cost product.
>   

Ubiquity NanoStation2. Works great. There are cheaper options like the 
Loco or Pico. I like the durability and
operating conditions of the outdoor one and find it worth the extra 50.00.

Is it just me or is it fast becoming"no matter the 802.11a/b/g 2.4/5Ghz 
hardware need the answer is Ubiquity" :)

They seem to be pretty cool.



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Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points

[Charles Wyble]

Josh Luthman wrote:
> Charles,
>
> These will be indoor installs so the durability and operating conditions are
> not a big deal to me.  I am interested in knowing if anyone has deployed
> them in a hotel/hotspot, though!
>   
Yes. I have one deployed as a Hotspot right now (in use for about 3 
weeks with 0 issues)
and will be meshing out from it to provide internet to Downtown El 
Segundo California.

Charles Wyble
http://www.socalwifi.net



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[WISPA] NS2 Feedback

[Charles Wyble]

All I can say is WOW!!!

I deployed an NS2 in a client mode deployment for testing and put it 
through heavy usage (lots of voip/downloads/youtube etc)
for 2 weeks. It worked flawlessly.

I then deployed it as a hotspot in El Segundo CA and it's working great.

Initial deployment was under the counter (closed on 3 sides) at a 
merchant and we got pretty good coverage of the whole strip mall.

Tonight I moved it up near the ceiling and coverage (as expected) 
dramatically improved.  We now provide coverage to 1 square block
or so.

I can't wait to load up a custom firmware image and start deploying a mesh.


NS2: 100.00
Wireless coverage you can count on: Priceless


Charles Wyble
http://www.socalwifi.net





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Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti 3.65

[Charles Wyble]

Joel White wrote:
> Anyone out there using the Ubiquiti 3.65 legally registered with the FCC? 
> Any ups or downs or knowledge you care to share?
>
>   

I would love to get an answer to this as well.



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Re: [WISPA] Indoor Access Points

[Charles Wyble]

Tom Sharples wrote:
> One of our wisp clients (a good size one with around 1K paying clients) has 
> been testing the ns2, and he reports some sort of problem that shows up as a 
> steady loss of preformance over time. They start out working great, but 
> after a few days of continuous operation the net transfer rate drops way 
> down until the unit is power cycled. Memory leak (or maybe a power supply 
> issue)?
>   


Interesting. I will let the list know if I encounter any issues with my 
hot spot deployment.





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Re: [WISPA] NS2 Feedback

[Charles Wyble]

Mine once I build, test and release the image. :)

OpenWRT/DD-WRT support it.

Once I figure out how to customize the Ubnt SDK I can release a mesh 
firmware. It's currently a work in progress.




Jerry Richardson wrote:
> Charles, which custom firmware supports mesh? 
>
>
>  
>  
> __ 
> Jerry Richardson 
> airCloud Communications
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Charles Wyble
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:41 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] NS2 Feedback
>
> All I can say is WOW!!!
>
> I deployed an NS2 in a client mode deployment for testing and put it
> through heavy usage (lots of voip/downloads/youtube etc) for 2 weeks. It
> worked flawlessly.
>
> I then deployed it as a hotspot in El Segundo CA and it's working great.
>
> Initial deployment was under the counter (closed on 3 sides) at a
> merchant and we got pretty good coverage of the whole strip mall.
>
> Tonight I moved it up near the ceiling and coverage (as expected)
> dramatically improved.  We now provide coverage to 1 square block or so.
>
> I can't wait to load up a custom firmware image and start deploying a
> mesh.
>
>
> NS2: 100.00
> Wireless coverage you can count on: Priceless
>
>
> Charles Wyble
> http://www.socalwifi.net
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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>   




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Re: [WISPA] NS2 Feedback

[Charles Wyble]

Josh Luthman wrote:
> Charles,
>
> Have you any experience with the R52/h or Compex cards?  If so how do the
> NS2s compare (or do they)?
>   

No I do not. Sorry.

My other wireless experience has been with Linksys WRT54GL running OpenWrt.





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Re: [WISPA] Article

[Charles Wyble]

I have a question. How do you have so much time to write these really
long e-mails on a regular basis? Do you have that much free time? If so
do you think it could be better invested in improving your WISP?

It seems counter productive to me, for you  to spend all this time
posting to the WISP list instead of making things better for yourself.

I frequently will write long e-mails, and/or blog posts, but I try to
make those relevant to something that enables a better life for me or my
company / community and hence worth my time. For example the work I have
done in the 3650mhz space and exclusion zones.

I find long rants generally don't do anything but incite flame wars and
waste a lot of peoples time.







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Re: [WISPA] Article

[Charles Wyble]

I'll be proposing this at the town hall meeting in Los Angeles today. 
See http://www.internetforeveryone.org/

If anyone in SoCal is attending feel free to call my cell at 
(818)280-7059. I should be there around noon.


Tom DeReggi wrote:
> As I weeded through the gibberish I did recognize one good point that he 
> made.
>
> "We need the ability to use public rights of way and to not
> have our trade restrained by local authorities who seek to ban our equipment
> deployments"
>
> It would be nice to have the same rights to right-of-ways that incumbent 
> utility's have.
>
> We will always be at a disadvantage without it. Wireless on its own, does 
> not get us every where that we need to get. There still has to be somewhere 
> to put the radios. And as long as Real Estate Owners control that, we are 
> not free to compete and grow.
>
> Although granting Whitespace to Unlicensed, will be a HUGE step in the right 
> direction, to get past many of these easement barriers to entries.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 4:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article
>
>
>   
>> AnimalFarm converts Sheep to Pigs!
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:53 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article
>>
>>
>> 
>>> I'm not saying we should do what Mark says, I'm not even saying Mark is
>>> right (nor am I saying the opposites), but it's a good thing we have
>>> differing views.  Whether we're sheep for DC or sheep against DC, sheep
>>> for
>>> Mt. Dew or sheep against Mt. Dew, sheep are the worst thing to be.
>>> Differing products, thoughts, opinions helps to breed a new generation of
>>> better products, thoughts, opinions.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 8:56 PM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article
>>>
>>>   
 LOL  Yeah.

 It's much easier to whine than it is to join and help improve things eh?

 Mark, you still fail to grasp the difference between working to change
 the
 rules while living within the ones that exist.

 marlon

 - Original Message - 
 From: "Bob Moldashel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 11:38 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article


 
> Wow...OK   Who peed in the Muddy Water and hit the Frog?
>
> Sheesh...
>
> -B-
>
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>   
>> And I won't be.   I was once and put money into WISPA.When I think
>> WISPA
>> has the interests of all WISPS in mind when they act, then I'll
>> financially
>> support it.   When WISPA goes to washington DC and represents to them,
>> that
>> we actually WANT to be regulated, I cannot support them.   When WISPA
>> consistently fights FOR all of us, and not just the narrow interests 
>> of
>> those who want federal money or whatever, then I may again support
>> WISPA
>> financially.
>>
>> When the attitude that "consolidation and shaking out the smaller
>> players"
>> is a good thing goes away, then there's on more barrier down.  It may
>> not
>> be
>> official, but people who make decisions in WISPA have said that in the
>> past.
>> Sorry, you lost me with that one.  Small business and "mom and pop" 
>> are
>> the
>> backbone of our economy and make up a huge segment of all the jobs in
>> the
>> whole country.
>>
>> Every other industry organization unabashedly opposes everything that
>> costs
>> them or can harm them, but the leadership continues to insist that
>> somehow
>> playing nice and agreeing to mandates and costs will buy us favor...
>> All
>> that happens is the mandates and agreements happen, the regulators
>> change
>> and all the "goodwill" supposedly bought evaportes, with the 
>> precedents
>> and
>> whatnot remain.  Until they understand that Washington DC is NEVER our
>> friend, never to be trusted, then we're just sheep waiting to get
>> shorn.
>>
>> Until this fundamental approach changes, no way in good conscience can
>> I
>> put
>> my name on what they do or give them money.
>>
>>
>> Sorry, that's just my opinion and it's not subject to "revision and
>> extension".
>>
>> This same attitude is going on still.   WISPA leadership is still
>> talking
>> about trying to out maneuver the big

Re: [WISPA] Do you provide backup services?

[Charles Wyble]

Stick those drives in this:
http://promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?product_id=185

Mike Hammett wrote:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148337
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 8:22 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Do you provide backup services?
>
>   
>> We do it.  Handybackup has been a nice little program.
>>
>> What I'm stuck on is how to get ahold of a cheap enough solution for 
>> massive
>> amounts of storage.  Anyone got any ideas for inexpensive storage space?
>>
>> Because handy backup encrypts everything before sending it to my servers
>> security doesn't have to be super good.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:10 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Do you provide backup services?
>>
>>
>> 
>>> I do, but I'm not happy with the provider I chose.  He just uses someone
>>> else's software, but it has so many files that it errors on, it's
>>> ridiculous
>>> I have to manually remove that file from the backup set and try again.
>>> With
>>> over a half million files...
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 3:19 AM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Do you provide backup services?
>>>
>>>   
 Do any of you provide backup data services to your broadband clients as 
 a
 value added or revenue improving service?

 Was it a success or failure?



 
 



 
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>>>   
>>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Do you provide backup services?

[Charles Wyble]

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Thanks!
>
> Do you happen to know if those are new or reman units?  Seems pretty dang 
> cheap.  I'm after inexpensive, not cheap.
>   

I swear by the baracuda drives. Nothing else.
> I could sure see putting one of those into the web severs and then selling a 
> lot more space to people or lower our prices.  I figured that this much 
> space was gonna cost me well over a grand.
> marlon

You could do that. Or put them in the promise product. I love that 
thing  It took me all of 15 minutes to rack the chasis, populate the 
drives
and provision the storage. iSCSI drivers exist for Windows and Linux. 
Chasis ran around 2k.

http://promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?product_id=185



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Re: [WISPA] Do you provide backup services?

[Charles Wyble]

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> How much?
>   
2k.

> I pay for internet 
> based on usage. 

Doesn't everyone? (I mean for anything beyond end users).
>  I need to keep as many of these danged off site backup 
> customers on MY system not ever let them out to the internet.
>   

Bingo.




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[WISPA] For your consideration

[Charles Wyble]

http://bennett.com/blog/2009/02/thought-you-had-no-alternatives-for-broadband/ 





-- 
Charles N Wyble char...@thewybles.com
(818)280-7059 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
CTO SocalWiFI.net



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Re: [WISPA] Mesh Solutions

[Charles Wyble]

ubnt.com :)



Jerry Richardson wrote:
> What are some sub-$500 solutions for dual radio WiFi Mesh that support
> Multi-SSID with VLAN tagging?
>  
> I already know I can do it for around 360/unit with MikroTik, just
> wondering if I am overlooking anything.
>  
> Thanks
>  
-- 
Charles N Wyble char...@thewybles.com
(818)280-7059 http://charlesnw.blogspot.com
CTO SocalWiFI.net



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Re: [WISPA] Ya Know......

[Charles Wyble]

Alright. Shut this thread down. Or take it off list.

Don't gripe on list about an issue between two individuals. Use a blog 
or something. Seriously.

Bob Moldashel wrote:
> After reading this again.
> 
> No...
> 
> What would have been better for Bob in the first place is if the other 
> party (who is a WISPA member) would have conducted themselves in a 
> professional manner and sent payments when he said he was going to and 
> not "play' me. I suppose I should be "professional" and return his 
> deposit too??? Maybe I should give him interest on his $500 too while I 
> had it in my bank.
> 
> I almost sent the money I promised to donate to WISPA on the sale of 
> this link out of the deposit.  Fortunately for me and unfortunately for 
> WISPA I didn't.
> 
> So what the other party did was unprofessional. So...If this is a 
> professional organization maybe he shouldn't be a member because he 
> doesn't meet the "professional" criteria.
> 
> I didn't name any names so I don't know what the issue is.  So many 
> people here bitch about the FCC, the rules, manufacturer's handling of 
> RMA's, repairs, price, delivery, tower companies, throughput, RF 
> interference, etc, etc.
> 
> Please don't single me out.  It won't work.  And I don't want to be the 
> person who points out when others are being "unprofessional".
> 
> -B-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matt Liotta wrote:
>> Except of course that isn't professional. And, while I have many times  
>> wanted to complain about some other WISP in public I won't because it  
>> isn't professional. What would have been better for Bob in the first  
>> place and for the rest of us always; would be simply for each other to  
>> treat their peers with respect. This is supposed to be a professional  
>> organization after all.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Apr 16, 2009, at 4:42 PM, Brad Belton wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> Geesh...that sucks Bob.  I'd almost say a public flogging of the  
>>> perp is in
>>> order...
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:28 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Ya Know..
>>>
>>> The world is really full of losers.
>>>
>>> After 6 weeks of BS and a down payment check of $500 I once again have
>>> another happy list member backing out of the purchase of the 200 Mb
>>> Dragonwave link that I have. Nothing like wasting my time. The reason
>>> given is that he doesn't feel that  the link will perform at 1 mile  
>>> EVEN
>>> WITH 4' FREAKIN' DISHES  There is nothing worse than someone who
>>> can't just say something like "I can't afford it" or something real  
>>> like
>>> that.  No...the excuse is a 23 Ghz. FD link won't work over 1 mile in
>>> the southwest "RELIABLY".AUGH
>>>
>>> And get this.He wants his deposit back! I have to laugh
>>>
>>> I will not identify who the person or entity is as they are on this
>>> list.  I will let him defend himself if he wishes too.  (BTW:  I have
>>> ALL the e-mails so I can support my side so please don't try to come  
>>> up
>>> with another story dude...)
>>>
>>> OKNow.   Here is the last chance if someone wants it.
>>>
>>> Dragonwave 200 Mb Airpair all outdoor link, 23 Ghz.  FDX with your
>>> choice of 2' (new) or 4' used antennas. The link was in service for a
>>> little over 1 year.  has a fiber interface and power supplies for each
>>> side.  I will guarantee it will work as advertised.  I will also give
>>> anyone that is sincerely interested the serial numbers and you can  
>>> call
>>> Dragonwave and see for yourself that this link never had a problem.
>>>
>>> The first $7K gets it.  You pay shipping. No discount for radios only.
>>> if you want just the equipment less antennas...Still $7K
>>>
>>> Its a good deal if you have money.  I am not financing this so please
>>> don't ask.
>>>
>>> Sorry for the rant.
>>>
>>> Offlist  (lakel...@gbcx.net) or my cell 516-551-1131 anytime
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> ---

Re: [WISPA] Insurance on equipment

[Charles Wyble]

I'm guessing you mean AP gear and not CPE? Or do you mean CPE as well?




Alan Long wrote:
> Anyone have information/experience with insuring your equipment against
> damage. My main concern is weather related damage.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [WISPA] Insurance on equipment

[Charles Wyble]

Why would one find another insurer?

I do believe they can do a search on claims you have filed and charge 
accordingly. So changing insurers most likely won't help.



Josh Luthman wrote:
> What we do and what I've been suggested is hold onto an insurance policy and
> use it when you really have to.  If an AP or two and some CPEs go bad, don't
> claim it as it your rates will rise or the policy may be canceled.
> 
> If you lost an entire tower and hundreds of thousands of dollars (or
> whatever size completely kicks your bucket) then claim it and prepare to
> find another insurer.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
> --- Henry Spencer
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Alan Long  wrote:
> 
>> All gear.
>>
>> 
>> Aerowire
>> Alan Long
>> Director of Network Operations
>> alan.l...@aerowire.net
>> 687 North Dean Road
>> Auburn, AL 36830
>> tel: 3342759998
>> mobile: 336092
>> --------
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Charles Wyble
>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:30 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance on equipment
>>
>> I'm guessing you mean AP gear and not CPE? Or do you mean CPE as well?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Alan Long wrote:
>>> Anyone have information/experience with insuring your equipment against
>>> damage. My main concern is weather related damage.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
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>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2062 - Release Date: 04/16/09
>> 08:12:00
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] billing system to integrate with wi-fi

[Charles Wyble]

Well naturally. However I define plug and play as everything is pre 
integrated, and simply needs one to set passwords and some IP 
addresses/ranges.

Scott Reed wrote:
> Except for the first line and the last line, this is pretty much MT 
> RouterOS and UserManager.
> With the rest of the list, how do define Plug & Play.  There are a lot 
> of things in the list that need to be configured.  Nothing is going to 
> come out of the box doing all that the way the user wants.
> 
> Rogelio wrote:
>> A coworker is looking at this solution to possibly be a billing system 
>> at a fair
>>
>> http://www.allcity-wireless.com/
>>
>> Has anyone played with it?  Or can they recommend something with these 
>> types of features?
>>
>> Simple Plug & Play Network Deployment
>> Built in network services: RADIUS, DNS, DHCP, Syslog, FTP
>> Multiple SSID support
>> Security Suite built in
>> Automated daily system backups for emergency recovery
>> User Experience Features
>> Up sell network access based on time and/or bandwidth
>> Walled Garden Support
>> "Capture and Redirect"
>> MAC address based authentication
>> Credit Card Processing / Common Payment Gateways
>> Site Branding
>> User self registration & support
>> Built in Advertisement Revenue Features
>> "Captive Audience" Ad Inserts
>> User Timeout for Advertisement based WiFi sales model
>> Built in Web Server and Ad Server
>> Web usage logging
>> Built in Advertisement Revenue Features
>> Integrated Network Monitoring with WiFi Mesh Graphs
>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
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>> 
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2062 - Release Date: 04/16/09 
>> 08:12:00
>>
>>   
> 



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Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question

[Charles Wyble]

The WiSPY picks up radar signals?

Eje Gustafsson wrote:
> The Wi-SPY devices are fairly affordable. And they support remote monitoring
> both with Windows and Linux. So you could set one up in a small linux box
> that you leave on site and just let it log and you can view the data
> remotely from your Windows machine over the network or go and pickup the
> unit and view the log data that way. So will do just what you want. 
> Also the frequency resolution the Wi-Spy devices offer is better then what I
> normally set my real SA on when I check out radio cards or check out
> signals. Very capable devices IMO there is no reason why a WISP shouldn't
> have at least one of these in their toolbox. I can understand why many do
> not want to buy a expensive spectrum analyzer for $3k+ for the simpler ones
> but in all reality be able to track down signal sources and interference as
> a WISP is a must. I know some people are using like Canopy SM's to do this
> but they interface is slow and clunky and don't log any data. 
> 
> 
> / Eje Gustafsson
> WISP-Router, Inc.
> http://store.wisp-router.com/items.asp?Cc=WiFiTools&Bc=
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Adam Goodman
> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 3:51 PM
> To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question
> 
> I had some trouble with radar (think it was radar) last year.
> Interferences could be from many sources. It sa problem because you
> can't just go sit there for a couple of weeks with a spectrum analyzer
> listening for noise. It would be nice if there was a reasonably priced
> logger. Or with Internet connectivity. All this is probably a pipe
> dream as I have never seen anything with such functionality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Scott Carullo
>  wrote:
>> Anyone know of a radio that can just listen passively and scan through
>> channels and report back on radar signals heard on what frequencies?  That
>> would be a great tool to have to scope out certain areas of interest to
>> know ahead of time what radar DFS issues might be present...
>>
>> Scott Carullo
>> Brevard Wireless
>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>
>>  Original Message 
>>> From: "Blair Davis" 
>>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:30 PM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Gell Cell?
>>>
>>>
> 
>> 
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>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator

[Charles Wyble]

There is also Iboot:
http://dataprobe.com/iboot-remote-reboot.html

I have a couple thousand of them monitoring kit all over the United 
States. Work very well.


Vickie Edwards wrote:
> ThinkGeek has 3 different models of the Kill-a-Watt, as well as another
> meter-type gadget:
> 
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/brain/whereisit.cgi?t=kill+a+watt&x=0&y=0
> 
> 
>  
> InLine>
> vickie edwards, MPA | Grant Specialist
> InLine Connections> Solutions Through Technology
> 600 Lakeshore Pkwy
> Birmingham AL, 35209
> 205-278-8106 [p]
> 205-941-1934[f]
> vedwa...@inline.com
> www.InLine.com
> All Quotes from InLine are only valid for 30 days. This message and any 
> attached files may contain confidential information and are intended solely 
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> 
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of J. Vogel
> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 11:34 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator
> 
> Got a link or a model number for that new Kill-a-Watt?  I can't find any
> info about it on their site.
> 
> John
> 
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> My biggest site (something like 9 radios now) is drawing under 20
> watts 
>> these days.  Closer to 15 if my memory serves.
>>
>> To get that number I used one of the new kill-a-watt units that has an
> 
>> ethernet port on it.  A bit spendy but very cool.  It allows me to
> remotely 
>> (through a company web site, not my own) monitor what's going on at a
> tower. 
>> It will also do power cycling!  Other than the fact that it has to be
> sent 
>> to the factory to get firmware updates (how's that for old fashioned?)
> I 
>> love the unit.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 12:55 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] electricity usage calculator
>>
>>
>>   
>>> I have a new tower site and the owner ask how much electric I will
> use.
>>> How can I calculate that?  For now all I will have is one 24v 2amp
> power
>>> supply going to a rb433ah with an xr2 omni and a xr5 backhaul.
>>> I can roughly guess the price per kilowatt hr but I need to get an
>>> estimate on kw/hr first.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
> 
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>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
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> 
> 



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[WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up 
on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless 
local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they 
can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax 
directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most 
markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile 
workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.

It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served 
market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11 
gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?

One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase 
CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy 
(DSL or Cable modem).

I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it 
will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post 
sales engineering)
etc etc.




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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience. 
Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my primary 
goal.


Michael Baird wrote:
> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand experience 
> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a 
> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I think 
> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get through 
> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is superior.
> 
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up 
>> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed 
>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless 
>> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they 
>> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax 
>> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most 
>> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile 
>> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.
>>
>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served 
>> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11 
>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?
>>
>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband 
>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase 
>> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy 
>> (DSL or Cable modem).
>>
>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in 
>> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it 
>> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>>
>> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
>> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post 
>> sales engineering)
>> etc etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

Jason Hensley wrote:
> For me, personally in our area, 3650 is attractive because of the lack of
> noise.  We are saturated with 2.4 and 5GHz here, but if I was in an area
> with low noise levels in 2.4 and 5Ghz, then I would not see a point in
> spending the extra money to deploy 3650 gear.  I personally don't care that
> much about WiMax itself, as I tend to agree that a lot of it is marketing
> hype.  We have a city-wide (NOT Muni) 802.11 hotspot system that generates a
> fair amount of revenue for us with roaming users connecting with their
> laptops.  3650 won't do that because I doubt we will be seeing laptops with
> built-in 3650 cards anytime soon (though I could be wrong).

This is why I specifically mentioned a fixed base use case, and hanging 
an 802.11 access point off the CPE. :) Also Intel has a Wimax card now.

What is the cost difference between the 802.11 gear and Wimax gear?




> 
> You can easily pull 10-20meg through 5.8 gear in low noise, good LOS
> environments.  


Southern California doesn't have a lot of those environments. :)

We're doing 10meg in an area that is saturated with 5.8. I'm
> looking at 3650 SOLELY because of our noise floor.  If it wasn't for the
> noise, I'd keep plugging along hanging Deliberant 2.4 and 5Ghz CPE's all
> over the place.  

Interesting. I'll investigate that vendor.


> 
> Ideally, what I'm moving toward is putting 3650 gear in place for my large
> backhauls (tower to tower) and for my high-end customers that require higher
> availability and are willing to pay a premium price (i.e. businesses that
> want to go all VoIP over a 20meg Internet connection),


Right. Wireless local loop. Charge a few hundred per month and provide 
dedicated band width.

  while maintaining my
> current networks with their 5Ghz and 2.4 AP locations, although much of the
> 5Ghz backhaul would be replaced with 3650 gear. 

Makes sense. What vendors are you considering? What vendors are giving 
you horrors?

> 
> Anyway, this is just me.  I'm sure a lot of folks have different views and
> different opinions though, and maybe there is a purpose and need for Wimax
> itself, but for me, I have yet to see what the big deal is.  
>   
> 



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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

Yes. I know. Which is why I asked very specific questions. I don't 
really care about the technology involved and am not looking for 
information on it.

I'm asking for vendor recommendations and WISP experiences from people 
that have actually deployed Wimax in the 3650Mhz space. The area I'm 
looking to serve wouldn't be cost effective to serve via Wifi.


Matt Liotta wrote:
> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with  
> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the  
> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this  
> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and  
> think the technology is actually different and better than what else  
> is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced  
> and not particularly interesting.
> 
> -Matt
> 
> On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
> 
>> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
>> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my  
>> primary
>> goal.
>>
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
>>> experience
>>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
>>> think
>>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
>>> through
>>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
>>> superior.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
>>>> read up
>>>> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
>>>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
>>>> (wireless
>>>> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
>>>> they
>>>> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
>>>> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
>>>> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
>>>> mobile
>>>> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
>>>> sense.
>>>>
>>>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
>>>> un(der)served
>>>> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
>>>> 802.11
>>>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
>>>> assessment?
>>>>
>>>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
>>>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
>>>> purchase
>>>> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
>>>> (DSL or Cable modem).
>>>>
>>>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
>>>> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
>>>> it
>>>> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>>>>
>>>> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
>>>> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
>>>> post
>>>> sales engineering)
>>>> etc etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>>
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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

What he said. :)

Seriously I'm interested in actual experiences. Not moans and gripes and 
arm chair speculation. I'm very interested in deploying Wimax technology 
and want real world information and actual operator feedback.

Michael Baird wrote:
> Matt,
> 
> I appreciate your perspective, but I've already read through the 
> archives and with Wimax technology what was valid yesterday might not be 
> valid today. I'm not interested in a holy war, we are certainly going to 
> deploy Wimax in the near future, I just want to set expectations 
> properly before we are mounting the gear on the tower, and reading 
> marketing info from Alverion/Tranzeo/Aperto certainly doesn't help clear 
> up the differences and advantages to the technology.
> 
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>> Those of us operators who actually have experience in the field with  
>> the gear tend to avoid posting to threads about WiMAX because the  
>> threads quickly devolve. I suggest you read the archives of this  
>> mailing list. To summarize though; operators who use WiMAX like it and  
>> think the technology is actually different and better than what else  
>> is out there. The people who don't use WiMAX think it is overpriced  
>> and not particularly interesting.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> I'm looking for more operational experience and end user experience.
>>> Certainly good technology contributes to that, but that isn't my  
>>> primary
>>> goal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> 
>>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand  
>>>> experience
>>>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>>>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I  
>>>> think
>>>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get  
>>>> through
>>>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is  
>>>> superior.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Michael Baird
>>>>   
>>>>> So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to  
>>>>> read up
>>>>> on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
>>>>> deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets  
>>>>> (wireless
>>>>> local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless  
>>>>> they
>>>>> can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
>>>>> directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
>>>>> markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly  
>>>>> mobile
>>>>> workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more  
>>>>> sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an  
>>>>> un(der)served
>>>>> market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard  
>>>>> 802.11
>>>>> gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate  
>>>>> assessment?
>>>>>
>>>>> One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
>>>>> available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to  
>>>>> purchase
>>>>> CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
>>>>> (DSL or Cable modem).
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
>>>>> Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access  
>>>>> it
>>>>> will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.
>>>>>
>>>>> So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
>>>>> What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and  
>>>>> post
>>>>> sales engineering)
>>>>> etc etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>> 
>>>>>
&

Re: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections

[Charles Wyble]

Excellent questions to ask.

I would recommend a mid range cisco router. Say the 1800 or 2800 series.

Also Vyata makes some nice kit.

Jeff Broadwick wrote:
> Hi Alan,
> 
> Do you anticipate needing BGP now, or in the future?
> 
> What are the link speeds?
> 
> How much overall throughput will the router need to handle?
> 
> What pricepoint are you looking for?
> 
> Jeff
> ImageStream 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Alan Long
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 5:20 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] router to load balance 2 wan connections
> 
> I am looking for a router to load balance 2 wan connections and support 450
> users behind the router. I will be bringing in 2 external circuits from
> different providers and want to be able to use both. Any have any experience
> with gear to handle this?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations 
> 
> Aerowire
>  
>  rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 
> 
> 
>   alan.l...@aerowire.net 
> 
> 
> tel: 
> mobile: 
> 
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>  
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
> 
>   Want a
> signature like this?
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 



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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz and Wimax Vendors

[Charles Wyble]

This is what I'm looking for. Thank you!!

Ben Wiechman wrote:
> We've looked at several different vendors for WiMAX and have been running
> Alvarion in 2.5GHz for almost 18 months now. Aperto seems to have a decent
> RF platform, as does Redline and Alvarion. We had two main issues with
> Aperto: ugly Tranzeo CPE and their EMS. Maybe some things have changed by
> the EMS was required to configure each base station and MS as it entered the
> network, however ran only on windows and didn't run as a service. So one
> clown closing the window and your network was dead in the water. Redline
> appears to have a solid product as well as does Alvarion.
> 
> As was stated earlier the biggest reason to look at WiMAX is for
> differentiated services. If voice or a high quality data play is in your
> business plan it makes sense. If you are suffering from interference issues,
> and spectrum is becoming much more polluted everywhere, so 3650 does help in
> that regard.
> 
> With access to 2.5GHz spectrum for us WiMAX was an option we considered
> purely for the penetration. The bulk of our subscriber base was only
> accessible using 900MHz access points, and we quickly outgrew the capacity
> of the Canopy APs we have been using and also are suffering increasingly
> from interference from a number of sources: RFID, baby monitors, a couple
> lingering paging companies, GPS correction for farming, saturation due to
> excessive numbers of Access POints to try to meet bandwidth demands, etc. We
> also didn't feel that we would be able to offer services other than basic
> broadband access across the Canopy platform. The 16e standard is valuable
> for us due to the penetration provided by MIMO and beamforming that are
> available within the standard. We could care less about the mobility (and
> added overhead) but its hard to get one without the other.
> 
> If you've got clean spectrum and are only looking to deploy basic data
> access WiMAX probably doesn't make sense. If you have access to licensed
> spectrum, want to deploy differentiated services, or are looking at 3650
> WiMAX may make sense. 16d will have less overhead and less cost: the
> complexities of the mobile platform are not there, nor do you need
> additional network components like an ASN-GW, and typically provisioning is
> greatly simplified. The problem you run into on the 16e side is that every
> vendor is only thinking about Clearwire and not considering the WISP and the
> price point a WISP is able to justify.
> 
> Ben Wiechman
> Wisper High Speed Internet
> 
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Pat O'Connor  wrote:
> 
>> Anybody use Airspan for Wimax?
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>> It was interesting, but I was hoping for some more first hand experience
>>> reporting. Essentially the only explanation for improved range was a
>>> lower noise floor, which isn't a wimax thing, but a 3.65 thing. I think
>>> a lot of the 802.16d/e talk is market speak, I'm trying to get through
>>> that and establish technical reasons why one or the other is superior.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
 So the recent thread on Wimax was quite interesting. I need to read up
 on the different technologies involved. I believe that a fixed
 deployment is sufficient for many many many needs and markets (wireless
 local loop if you will). If people want mobility/end user wireless they
 can hang an 802.11 AP off the ethernet port of whatever CPE. Wimax
 directly to the end device doesn't make much sense to me, in most
 markets and use cases. Obviously if you are supporting a highly mobile
 workforce (say public sector type stuff) then it makes a lot more sense.

 It got me thinking... if one was a new WISP entering an un(der)served
 market, it seems that it would not make sense to deploy standard 802.11
 gear, but rather Wimax gear in 3650Mhz. Is this an accurate assessment?

 One particular area that I'm targeting, doesn't have any broadband
 available (other then 3g from Verzion). So they would need to purchase
 CPE anyway, and it wouldn't be anything they could get from Best Buy
 (DSL or Cable modem).

 I'm in the process of negotiating access to the excluded areas (in
 Southern California), but it's been slow going. Once I gain access it
 will open up many areas to some sorely needed competition.

 So who are the vendors in this space worth considering?
 What are peoples experiences with the sales process (both pre and post
 sales engineering)
 etc etc.




>> 
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Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping

[Charles Wyble]

Brian Webster wrote:
> Amen Rick
> 
> I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back
> door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected
> Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the data
> never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells
> like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that idea.


Um. what? Where do you see in the law where the data won't be 
available? What page and section?


> 
> If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We can
> do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. You
> just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on.
> Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around them
> and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive
> broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do
> it to convince the organizations that are handing out money.

Go compete for the (sub)contract then, instead of whining on the mailing 
list.

This sort of baseless posturing is pathetic and does your company a 
disservice.




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Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping

[Charles Wyble]

Excellent!!!

My thoughts exactly to the millionth power!



Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Rick,
> 
> I agree with your assessment that the $350 mil number was set based on 
> either Connected Nation being in mind (their lobbying), or using Connected 
> Nation as the only historical data to estimate what it could cost. But to 
> assume all $350 mil would just automatically go to Connect-the-Nation 
> without competitive bid process or considering all applicant's needs, is not 
> likely.
> 
> No we should NOT leave these funds alone.  Every one wanting to contribute 
> in mapping efforts surely should submit bids for this money. If nobody bids 
> (submits grant apps) on it, it would just be handed over to connected nation 
> on a silver platter.  Its more likely that $5 Mil would be allocated to each 
> State, for each State to best define how they want to map their broadband 
> coverage. Mapping coverage and need is clearly the one area that the States 
> undisputedly could be effective in helping out with.  I'd argue that because 
> of the few intities capable of providing mapping solutions, the odds are 
> higher of actually gaining a grant.
> 
> I also argue that if Connected Nation could do it for $8,000,000 for Ohio, 
> they surely could do the whole country for not to much more than that 
> number. After all, once one State is complete, all the tools, software 
> development, and processes are already there to replicate.   I'd argue that 
> it would be "self serving" without justification or basis, to try and 
> continue to get $5 mil per state, on an ongoing basis. If anything, it could 
> be lobbied that economies of scale should be able to be obtained to reduce 
> the cost, in one national project, or replicating for individual states, 
> argueing that there will be additional funds to go around.  Surely Connected 
> Nation will ask for the full $350 mil, but its not likely the government 
> will grant it, with other bids on the table, unless they can truly justify 
> it, or there could be huge repercussions on the way the funds were managed 
> after the fact. I'd also argue that at this opens up the door for new 
> entrants that are not greedy, and come up with a more affordable plan.  At 
> minimum it should be argued that the money should be spread around to create 
> competiton in Mapping solutions, or at minimum not put all the money in one 
> basket.  Solely on the public opinion that Connected Nation is a front for 
> the telco, it could be argued taht a more specialized mapping solution 
> should be made for WISPs, tailered to their market that have different 
> characteristics, or that would tackle the problem from another angle.
> 
> Lastly, many prominent Wireless Association  and/or advocates have suggested 
> and supported ideas of spectrum mapping as needs equal to existing broadband 
> wireless coverage.  Based on the technology neutral clauses, it could be 
> argued that a certain percentage of mapping funds at minimum should go to 
> help mapo the needs of the wireless industry. Although, WISPA had been 
> neutral on this topic in its submissions, I'd argue that WISPA should 
> probably also offer support for such concepts and ideas.
> 
> Don't misunderstand me, I am not against Connected Nation, but they are not 
> the only fish in the sea. Although CN may have some strong supporters 
> politically, that does not over-ride the process the government takes to 
> fairly consider all applications and bids for funding. It would probably be 
> illegal if NTIA/RUS did not fairly consider all applicants and include 
> additional interested parties.
> 
> What we should do is thank Connected Nation for setting perception that 
> $5million is what it should cost, because that allows a lot of room for 
> applicants to underbid CN's track record, if they want to get into the 
> mappign broadband business.
> 
> I personally, will include mapping costs in my application. Argueing that 
> they are necessary costs to increase success and speed of installation of 
> plan, that can only be implemented by me, since I hold the confidential 
> information (network details) needed to adequately accurately map my 
> wireless network. And if there are not funds left in the mapping funds 
> portion of the BTOP program that they cover them in the large pool of funds 
> (not specifically allocated for mapping).
> 
> It could be argued that in theNational Broadband strategy, all Americans 
> need to be considered, even the 10% underserved in Urban America. Before 
> allocating more funds to build out wired networks in tehse areas that 
> already have wired networks,  it should be determined if these remaining 
> residents can be served with Wireless. The best way to do that is to create 
> wqireless coverage mapps, and build customer awareness of wireless coverage. 
> This is clearly within the goal of the BTOP program, to increase adoption. 
> Expecially to map your already served areas..
> 
> Tom DeReggi
>

Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping

[Charles Wyble]

Preach it Tom!

Wake up folks.

Regardless of your political views, your approval/disapproval of the 
stimulus package it's out there and the money is becoming available.

WE PAID INTO THIS WITH OUR TAXES! IT'S OUR MONEY!

I don't know about all you, but I have been preparing business and 
product plans since November and am waiting like a hawk for the grant 
process to be defined.



Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Brian,
> 
> Thats where I disagree. I'm surprised to hear it come from you.
> 
> Quick Note: Just two years ago, CN was nobody.  They have gotten clout 
> because they got off their hind side and started working on a solution to 
> the problem. But CN has had lots of critisim, they are not invincible.
> 
> What you should be doing is writting your ticket to financial freedom, by 
> preparing plans for WISPs.
> Grant awardees can't write checks to themselves, but they can write checks 
> to their solution providers and contractors necessary to fullfil their 
> obligations of and goals for their grants.
> 
> Brian, many WISPs like your work and see the value, but aren't paying you 
> now for services because they simply don't have the budget for it. The grant 
> program is an opportunity to get in "in the budget". If mapping isn't 
> included in their grant apps, it won't likely be in their budget after their 
> award either.
> 
> It might be hard to get a seperate grant for mapping. But its real easy to 
> add a line item to an existing application. If I were you, I'd be putting 
> togeather the "deluxe" package for WISPs to include in their applications, 
> and it doesn't have to be "cheaper".
> 
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Brian Webster" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
> 
> 
>> Amen Rick
>>
>> I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back
>> door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected
>> Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the 
>> data
>> never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells
>> like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that 
>> idea.
>>
>> If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We 
>> can
>> do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. 
>> You
>> just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on.
>> Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around 
>> them
>> and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive
>> broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do
>> it to convince the organizations that are handing out money.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
>> Behalf Of Rick Harnish
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:23 PM
>> To: ccoo...@intelliwave.com; 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
>>
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> It is my understanding that this bill was specifically written for 
>> Connected
>> Nation.  In a conversation today in Indianapolis I was told that if you
>> divide $350 million by 50 states you get $7,000,000 per state.  This is
>> approximately 80% of the $9,000,000 contract they recently signed with 
>> Ohio
>> or Tennessee.  The 80% number coincidentally matches up with the current
>> thinking on the Broadband Stimulus Grants with 20% coming from the 
>> awardees
>> and 80% coming from the Federal Government.  If this assumption is 
>> correct,
>> it didn't take Connected Nation long to come up with a number to present 
>> to
>> the legislators that sponsored the bill.
>>
>> I'm not saying that this funding won't be allocated to other grantees but 
>> I
>> have been told that it will be extremely difficult to buck this 
>> legislation
>> given the current political clout that Connected Nation seems to have. 
>> That
>> is not to say that the states themselves will get control of the funding 
>> and
>> will make those decisions separately.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Rick Harnish
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of chris cooper
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:01 AM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
>>
>> There is a $350 million mapping component set aside under BTOP.  Will
>> this funding be available in smaller chunks to successful grantees to
>> map their expanded networks?  Will it be available to all wisps to map
>> their existing networks in an effort to add to the overall national BB
>> map?
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Cooper
>>
>> Intelliwave
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wi

[WISPA] Whitespace Equipment

[Charles Wyble]

All,

What is the current status of whitespace gear availability?

I'm ramping up my WISP efforts here in SoCal and am looking at a 
combination of TVWS and 3650 for back haul/aggregation.

I know who the 3650 players are, and the licensing process etc. Still 
working on negotiating access to the protected zones.

Who should I be talking to about TVWS gear?



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Re: [WISPA] Whitespace Equipment

[Charles Wyble]

Jack,

Thanks for the reply.

It would appear that 3650 is where efforts should be focused for those 
of us here in SoCal.



Jack Unger wrote:
> Charles,
> 
> I estimate availability of TVWS equipment to be around the first quarter 
> of 2011 however in southern California (because of all the existing TV 
> stations) there will be few-to-none TVWS channels available. TVWS will 
> be most practical (and available) in rural areas where there are not as 
> many existing TV broadcasters.
> 
> jack
> 
> 
> Charles Wyble wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> What is the current status of whitespace gear availability?
>>
>> I'm ramping up my WISP efforts here in SoCal and am looking at a 
>> combination of TVWS and 3650 for back haul/aggregation.
>>
>> I know who the 3650 players are, and the licensing process etc. Still 
>> working on negotiating access to the protected zones.
>>
>> Who should I be talking to about TVWS gear?
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Whitespace Equipment

[Charles Wyble]

What I have so far is captured at
http://www.socalwifi.net/index.php/3650_to_3700_mhz_spectrum_information

I've been busy with some other things most of the first quarter 
(changing jobs and residences) but that's winding down.


I plan to reach out to the contacts mentioned there very soon. I also 
need to post some data that I got from the FCC OET, as the published 
calculations in regards to the exclusion zones have errors.



Jack Unger wrote:
> Charles,
> 
> Yep. Please update us on your efforts to negotiate access to 3650 spectrum.
> 
> jack
> 
> 
> Charles Wyble wrote:
>> Jack,
>>
>> Thanks for the reply.
>>
>> It would appear that 3650 is where efforts should be focused for those 
>> of us here in SoCal.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack Unger wrote:
>>   
>>> Charles,
>>>
>>> I estimate availability of TVWS equipment to be around the first quarter 
>>> of 2011 however in southern California (because of all the existing TV 
>>> stations) there will be few-to-none TVWS channels available. TVWS will 
>>> be most practical (and available) in rural areas where there are not as 
>>> many existing TV broadcasters.
>>>
>>> jack
>>>
>>>
>>> Charles Wyble wrote:
>>> 
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> What is the current status of whitespace gear availability?
>>>>
>>>> I'm ramping up my WISP efforts here in SoCal and am looking at a 
>>>> combination of TVWS and 3650 for back haul/aggregation.
>>>>
>>>> I know who the 3650 players are, and the licensing process etc. Still 
>>>> working on negotiating access to the protected zones.
>>>>
>>>> Who should I be talking to about TVWS gear?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
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>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>   
>>
>>
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>>   
> 
> -- 
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
> FCC-Licensed Since 1958
> Phone 818-227-4220  Email  www.ask-wi.com
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping

[Charles Wyble]

Brian Webster wrote:
> Charles,
>   I am not against this stimulus package nor the mapping effort.


Understood.

  There has
> been considerable criticism of connected nation and where they have
> responded to same, I have watched carefully. 

I will look into this further. This is the first mention I have seen of 
that entity.

Technically they have made the
> data available to the public and to the uninitiated decision makers, they
> think this is great.


Gotcha. Yes I agree a final product in PDF format isn't overly 
interesting. However I'm not sure if the data will only be available in 
that format. We should push for the raw data to be available.

  The format for which they have released the data is not
> what makes good use of a taxpayer funded mapping program. GIS and mapping
> should be considered a large Boolean logic system. In the same way you would
> do searches for key words using an internet search engine, mapping data
> layers can be used in a similar fashion. For example, if the broadband GIS
> data results were openly available, communities and/or individuals could
> build an application where you could ask things like, show me homes for sale
> in the $200,000 range with 3 bedrooms, in "x" school district in "y"
> municipality that have broadband. Today you as a citizen, who funded
> projects like the Census , have access to data sets which allow you to
> gather that type of information.

For example TIGER shape files and FCC shape files.

  The broadband mapping should be made
> available in the same formats.

Agreed.

  Maps in pdf format do not meet that criteria.

Right.

> Connected Nation has gone to great lengths to technically release their
> results, but also have hobbled the process and not made the real data
> available to even the government agencies. Think about that when all the
> grant applications start streaming in and the reviewers are trying to verify
> the communities that have or don't have broadband.

Sure. So lets push for the raw data to be available.

>   There are many uses and benefits to keeping the data in the public 
> domain.
> Public policy and academic groups would use this as an additional data
> element for their socio economic studies, other industries who might be
> privately looking to locate new facilities, could use it and make sure the
> infrastructure they need would be located on otherwise suitable property.
> There are many others uses that I am aware of and probably many more that I
> wouldn't have though about. Point being is that connected nation does not
> share this philosophy.


Makes sense.

>   For the money they have spent on mapping projects to date, they could 
> have
> easily gathered and compiled the same results using other methods with
> publically available data. They chose not to, and obtained information under
> NDA. I question if they did this because they took the lazy route or if it
> was done intentionally. The slightest little differences in the wording of
> contracts or final rules would go unnoticed to the casual observer, but in
> the end will make a huge difference in the benefit and usability to the
> final product.


Very true.

>   I would love to lead a crusade to make sure this does not happen and to
> help educate all the policy makers involved. Unfortunately that takes a
> great deal of time and connections to get in front of the right people. As
> one individual I have neither. I have been talking to other groups that may
> have the resources to do so. I continue to offer my help and expertise in
> hopes that the best solutions will prevail to the maximum benefit of the
> taxpayer. The WISP industry would benefit a great deal by keeping access to
> the results open. It will go a long way in helping determine market
> viability for a particular business plan. It would also make the process and
> expense to apply for these grants less costly.
>   I made the statement to move ahead despite the mapping effort only 
> because
> I fear that the worst would happen and the data will only be available in
> formats such as in Kentucky and Ohio. Those maps are all but useless when
> you need to answer complex questions like the number of households not
> served by broadband but would be under your project proposal. All important
> information under the grant processes. The statement was meant to say that
> you can still do it without the national mapping effort and at a much lower
> cost.
>   This is a very complex issue and difficult to debate the points though
> email or list format. Out of frustration I hastily sent of a response and
> did not clearly state my thoughts on the topic. As a mapping geek I could
> drone on forever about the topic.
> 



Thank you very very much for your detailed response. I appreciate the 
time and effort you put into it.

I'm working on combining the LA County GIS data, FCC data, and Census 
data and wardriving data nto an online solution that folks can play w

[WISPA] 3650Mhz Access Update

[Charles Wyble]

So I talked with someone who is heavily involved in the operation of 
3650Mhz ground stations.

The 30 second summary:

Mobile applications are out of the question.
Fixed point to point applications are possible.
Talk to comsearch.

Slightly longer summary:

He mentioned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-noise_block_converter
being extremely sensitive and receiving pico watts from a satellite in 
space. Retrofitting is possible but at substantial expense.

Evidently the operators have already received interference and it's 
caused interruption of service.

He mentioned that for every licensed down link there are numerous others 
who aren't licensed.

These ground stations are utilized by every cable company and are all 
over the Los Angeles region.

So it looks like access to the 3650 spectrum may be possible but it has 
the potential to be a time consuming and expensive process.







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Re: [WISPA] 3650Mhz Access Update

[Charles Wyble]

Speaking of comsearch:
http://www.comsearch.com/newsletter/e-flash.html



Charles Wyble wrote:
> So I talked with someone who is heavily involved in the operation of 
> 3650Mhz ground stations.
> 
> The 30 second summary:
> 
> Mobile applications are out of the question.
> Fixed point to point applications are possible.
> Talk to comsearch.
> 
> Slightly longer summary:
> 
> He mentioned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-noise_block_converter
> being extremely sensitive and receiving pico watts from a satellite in 
> space. Retrofitting is possible but at substantial expense.
> 
> Evidently the operators have already received interference and it's 
> caused interruption of service.
> 
> He mentioned that for every licensed down link there are numerous others 
> who aren't licensed.
> 
> These ground stations are utilized by every cable company and are all 
> over the Los Angeles region.
> 
> So it looks like access to the 3650 spectrum may be possible but it has 
> the potential to be a time consuming and expensive process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] WAN HotSpot and Polarity

[Charles Wyble]

I found that with a NanoStation2 I was able to provide coverage to an 
entire strip mall. Google earth it:

  229 Main Street
El Segundo, CA 90245

is where I deployed the AP.

It's a fairly standard strip mall. I covered the entire mall, plus 
across the street in all 4 directions.



Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Over the years, there have been many theories and strategies regarding what 
> polarity is best to use for various purposes.
> As an engineer, I as well have my theories. But, I wanted to get an updated 
> opinion based on field trials of others, for the following application
> 
> Application... 2.4Ghz WAN WIFI HotSpot
> Specs...
> 1) Average sub located within 100 yards to 1/2 mile.
> 2) Find and Subscribe by "Search for available Networks", via laptop's WIFI 
> card.
> 3) If RF signal good enough to get a web splash screen to user, will display 
> instruction for ordering higher gain antenna self-install kit for inside 
> their window mount or balcony.
> 4) Access Point would likely use a sector panel (60 deg?), with an EIRP of 
> 36db.
> 
> The goal here is enabling residential users to find the ISP's AP on 
> their own.
> 
> So my questions are
> 
> 1. If a Horizontally polarized antenna is used at the AP, Is it likely the 
> consumer will equally be able to find your AP, compared to if it had been 
> verical pol'd?
> 
> The idea being, horizontal pol's noise floor is much lower in the particular 
> area, and more likely ISP will avoid the noise from consumer APs that ship 
> with vert pol antennas, where end users by default will stick the antennas 
> straight up in Verticle pol position.
> 
> 2. By the time the ISP's horizontal signal gets to the end user, is it 
> received in multiple polarities, based on all the reflections in end users 
> home and stuff?
> 
> 3. Are laptop wifi cards typically "no polarity", and pick up Horizontal as 
> good as verticle signals?
> 
> 4. Laptops would appear to have Horizontal pol antennas in some cases, 
> expecially if a PCMCIA card. Is this true?  Or are most laptops starting to 
> embed verticle pol antennas on the sides of screens?
> 
> 5. Are End Users getting savy enough to move their laptop all around, when 
> they first take it out of the box, to try and find Horizontal pol APs of 
> ISPs Hotspots?
> 
> In summary If doing Hotspot WAN deployment, and Verticle noise is 
> significantly higher, will an ISP be doing a smart thing putting their 
> sector on Horiz pol to avoid noise, or shooting themself in the foot because 
> they'll be sending a signal cross pol to the average end user's verticle 
> pol's Wifi card, taking a 20db hit off the bat?
> 
> Sure Horizontal will be better, if the the consumer gets a professional 
> install, or learns to put an external horizontal pol antenna on their laptop 
> or PC. But most people may not know to do that, by default, for hotspot self 
> subscription.  (PS. recognize could use dual pol or 45deg off pol, but 
> purposely avoiding that, to try not to interfere with others, to enable more 
> people to play in the same spectrum)
> 
> What have other's found?
> 
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "George Rogato" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB333/433 eliminating self-interference test
> 
> 
>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>> Good point but. the problem went away when the mcpi cards each had 
>>> their own SBC/Case, this would infer card to card or pigtail to pigtail 
>>> interference, since in all cases the dummy load was outside the cases, 
>>> from what it sounds like.
>>>
>>> I guess that should be clarified
>>>
>>> Kurt, when you tested with teh RB600 and 3 cards on the adjacent slots, 
>>> was the RB600 also in a case with the holes metal taped?
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Question I have that should debunk that theory that cards in close
>> proximity interfere with each other. Why do the cards not interfere with
>> each other when there is additional gain antennas hooked on to them?
>>
>> You would think there would be even more self interference with high
>> gain antennas than with no antennas
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] WAN HotSpot and Polarity

[Charles Wyble]

The NS2 is dual polarity.

Not sure what polarity the clients are. We get a lot of Iphones/Ipods as 
clients.

So I haven't done any scientific studies, but wanted to give a real 
world indication of AP selection and coverage area.



Tom DeReggi wrote:
> well thats interesting, but you didn't address the primary question of 
> polarity.
> 
> Or what polarity hotspot CPE devices generally see.
> 
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Charles Wyble" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WAN HotSpot and Polarity
> 
> 
>> I found that with a NanoStation2 I was able to provide coverage to an
>> entire strip mall. Google earth it:
>>
>>  229 Main Street
>> El Segundo, CA 90245
>>
>> is where I deployed the AP.
>>
>> It's a fairly standard strip mall. I covered the entire mall, plus
>> across the street in all 4 directions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>> Over the years, there have been many theories and strategies regarding 
>>> what
>>> polarity is best to use for various purposes.
>>> As an engineer, I as well have my theories. But, I wanted to get an 
>>> updated
>>> opinion based on field trials of others, for the following 
>>> application
>>>
>>> Application... 2.4Ghz WAN WIFI HotSpot
>>> Specs...
>>> 1) Average sub located within 100 yards to 1/2 mile.
>>> 2) Find and Subscribe by "Search for available Networks", via laptop's 
>>> WIFI
>>> card.
>>> 3) If RF signal good enough to get a web splash screen to user, will 
>>> display
>>> instruction for ordering higher gain antenna self-install kit for inside
>>> their window mount or balcony.
>>> 4) Access Point would likely use a sector panel (60 deg?), with an EIRP 
>>> of
>>> 36db.
>>>
>>> The goal here is enabling residential users to find the ISP's AP on
>>> their own.
>>>
>>> So my questions are
>>>
>>> 1. If a Horizontally polarized antenna is used at the AP, Is it likely 
>>> the
>>> consumer will equally be able to find your AP, compared to if it had been
>>> verical pol'd?
>>>
>>> The idea being, horizontal pol's noise floor is much lower in the 
>>> particular
>>> area, and more likely ISP will avoid the noise from consumer APs that 
>>> ship
>>> with vert pol antennas, where end users by default will stick the 
>>> antennas
>>> straight up in Verticle pol position.
>>>
>>> 2. By the time the ISP's horizontal signal gets to the end user, is it
>>> received in multiple polarities, based on all the reflections in end 
>>> users
>>> home and stuff?
>>>
>>> 3. Are laptop wifi cards typically "no polarity", and pick up Horizontal 
>>> as
>>> good as verticle signals?
>>>
>>> 4. Laptops would appear to have Horizontal pol antennas in some cases,
>>> expecially if a PCMCIA card. Is this true?  Or are most laptops starting 
>>> to
>>> embed verticle pol antennas on the sides of screens?
>>>
>>> 5. Are End Users getting savy enough to move their laptop all around, 
>>> when
>>> they first take it out of the box, to try and find Horizontal pol APs of
>>> ISPs Hotspots?
>>>
>>> In summary If doing Hotspot WAN deployment, and Verticle noise is
>>> significantly higher, will an ISP be doing a smart thing putting their
>>> sector on Horiz pol to avoid noise, or shooting themself in the foot 
>>> because
>>> they'll be sending a signal cross pol to the average end user's verticle
>>> pol's Wifi card, taking a 20db hit off the bat?
>>>
>>> Sure Horizontal will be better, if the the consumer gets a 
>>> professional
>>> install, or learns to put an external horizontal pol antenna on their 
>>> laptop
>>> or PC. But most people may not know to do that, by default, for hotspot 
>>> self
>>> subscription.  (PS. recognize could use dual pol or 45deg off pol, but
>>> purposely avoiding that, to try not to interfere with others, to enable 
>>> more
>>> people to play in the same spectrum)
>>>
>>> What have other's found?
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL 

Re: [WISPA] WAN HotSpot and Polarity

[Charles Wyble]

I was using default settings. I'll login to it and look later today and 
let you guys know.

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> Dual polarity as in you are horizontal and vertical.
> 
> Or as in the nano will do either polarity?
> 
> As far as I know the nano does either (software switchable) not both.
> But, it would not be the first time I was wrong.
> 
> Brian
> 
> Charles Wyble wrote:
>> The NS2 is dual polarity.
>>
>> Not sure what polarity the clients are. We get a lot of Iphones/Ipods as 
>> clients.
>>
>> So I haven't done any scientific studies, but wanted to give a real 
>> world indication of AP selection and coverage area.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>   
>>> well thats interesting, but you didn't address the primary question of 
>>> polarity.
>>>
>>> Or what polarity hotspot CPE devices generally see.
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Charles Wyble" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 2:30 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WAN HotSpot and Polarity
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>> I found that with a NanoStation2 I was able to provide coverage to an
>>>> entire strip mall. Google earth it:
>>>>
>>>>  229 Main Street
>>>> El Segundo, CA 90245
>>>>
>>>> is where I deployed the AP.
>>>>
>>>> It's a fairly standard strip mall. I covered the entire mall, plus
>>>> across the street in all 4 directions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>> Over the years, there have been many theories and strategies regarding 
>>>>> what
>>>>> polarity is best to use for various purposes.
>>>>> As an engineer, I as well have my theories. But, I wanted to get an 
>>>>> updated
>>>>> opinion based on field trials of others, for the following 
>>>>> application
>>>>>
>>>>> Application... 2.4Ghz WAN WIFI HotSpot
>>>>> Specs...
>>>>> 1) Average sub located within 100 yards to 1/2 mile.
>>>>> 2) Find and Subscribe by "Search for available Networks", via laptop's 
>>>>> WIFI
>>>>> card.
>>>>> 3) If RF signal good enough to get a web splash screen to user, will 
>>>>> display
>>>>> instruction for ordering higher gain antenna self-install kit for inside
>>>>> their window mount or balcony.
>>>>> 4) Access Point would likely use a sector panel (60 deg?), with an EIRP 
>>>>> of
>>>>> 36db.
>>>>>
>>>>> The goal here is enabling residential users to find the ISP's AP on
>>>>> their own.
>>>>>
>>>>> So my questions are
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. If a Horizontally polarized antenna is used at the AP, Is it likely 
>>>>> the
>>>>> consumer will equally be able to find your AP, compared to if it had been
>>>>> verical pol'd?
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea being, horizontal pol's noise floor is much lower in the 
>>>>> particular
>>>>> area, and more likely ISP will avoid the noise from consumer APs that 
>>>>> ship
>>>>> with vert pol antennas, where end users by default will stick the 
>>>>> antennas
>>>>> straight up in Verticle pol position.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. By the time the ISP's horizontal signal gets to the end user, is it
>>>>> received in multiple polarities, based on all the reflections in end 
>>>>> users
>>>>> home and stuff?
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Are laptop wifi cards typically "no polarity", and pick up Horizontal 
>>>>> as
>>>>> good as verticle signals?
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Laptops would appear to have Horizontal pol antennas in some cases,
>>>>> expecially if a PCMCIA card. Is this true?  Or are most laptops starting 
>>>>> to
>>>>> embed verticle pol antennas on the sides of screens?
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. Are End Users getting savy enough to move their 

Re: [WISPA] suggestions on lower end PC appliances?

[Charles Wyble]

David E. Smith wrote:
> Rogelio wrote:
> 
>> I've heard good things about the Soekris boards, particularly from guys 
>> in the BSD community. The problem is time and finances.  I'm not sure 
>> that this is the best sort of solution, given those constraints.  But 
>> it's one option.
> 
> The Soekris boards are basically low-end PCs, and work quite well for 
> that purpose.
> 

Check out 
http://www.marvell.com/products/embedded_processors/developer/kirkwood/sheevaplug.jsp
 





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Re: [WISPA] Monowall and Microsoft Vista machines

[Charles Wyble]

Google for the win once again. :) Blasted zeroconf.

D. Ryan Spott wrote:
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22403089-Monowall-and-Mirosoft-Vista-machines
> 
> the "iptables -t filter -I INPUT --source 169.254.0.0/16 -j ACCEPT" 
> makes good sense.
> 
> 
> ryan
> 
> Steve Barnes wrote:
>> Did not mean there was an issues with FreeBSD.  Just meant that not being a 
>> vendor supported solution like Motorola, Tranzeo, Cisco, etc. that a 
>> solution to this issue may be harder to readily access.
>>
>> Steve Barnes
>> RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>> Behalf Of George Rogato
>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 12:11 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Monowall and Microsoft Vista machines
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Barnes wrote:
>>   I just
>>   
>>> found that MoNowall is a FreeBSD Firewall.  Good luck with that.
>>>
>>> Steve Barnes RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service
>>> 
>> FreeBSD is well supported and quite popular. We use BSD for quite a bit 
>> of stuff. Mainly servers, but also routers.
>>
>>
>> 
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> 
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[WISPA] Wireless visualization

[Charles Wyble]

http://www.ittc.ku.edu/wlan/

Also is anyone using visualization tools in your noc? such as ethereape 
or http://www.rumint.org/ etc?




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Re: [WISPA] Wireless visualization

[Charles Wyble]

LOL.

I can imagine :)

I have actually seen it used in several NOCs at large data centers and 
so forth.

I run it in my NOC, along with various other visualization tools 
(kismet/wireshark etc).



Rogelio wrote:
> I see Etherape running more often in coffee shops than I do in NOCs.  :)
> 
> 
> 
> On May 24, 2009, at 11:56 AM, Charles Wyble   
> wrote:
> 
>> http://www.ittc.ku.edu/wlan/
>>
>> Also is anyone using visualization tools in your noc? such as  
>> ethereape
>> or http://www.rumint.org/ etc?
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] Wireless visualization

[Charles Wyble]

LOL.

I can imagine :)

I have actually seen it used in several NOCs at large data centers and 
so forth.

I run it in my NOC, along with various other visualization tools 
(kismet/wireshark etc).



Rogelio wrote:
> I see Etherape running more often in coffee shops than I do in NOCs.  :)
> 
> 
> 
> On May 24, 2009, at 11:56 AM, Charles Wyble   
> wrote:
> 
>> http://www.ittc.ku.edu/wlan/
>>
>> Also is anyone using visualization tools in your noc? such as  
>> ethereape
>> or http://www.rumint.org/ etc?
>>
>>
>>
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>> --- 
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Re: [WISPA] Starting a wisp - required capital

[Charles Wyble]

RickG wrote:
> Charles,
> 
> I'll check my archives for the spreadsheet (I think Charles Wu has it
> online someplace)

Thanks. I appreciate that.

  but I believe the financing is only a small portion
> of the issue.

Indeed. Gear is only a small part of the network. I was thinking 100k 
for capex/initial contracting/build out only. To really "do it right" as 
it were.

  It's the labor. Good, reliable labor, that has
> experience and knowledge.

Very true. I have been building a team for some time and have found it 
very difficult work.

> As far as your $100k, there are many variables and more detail is
> needed. 

Of course. Which is why I asked for a spreadsheet listing out variables 
that folks have identified.

Sidenote: I dont live there now but I was born and raised in
> SoCal. When you say medium city, are you using city limits as a
> coverage area. I ask because in SoCal nearly all the cities run
> together from San Diego to Santa Barbara.

I was referring to population. I live in a city that is under served and 
I believe I can provide much better service to the city.

> At any rate, in my experience, whatever budget you come up with - double it!

Double the expenses and halve the revenue is common practice. :)





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Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

[Charles Wyble]

T-mobile cell phones work over wifi. 1 number.

I use it all the time.

George Rogato wrote:
> Josh Luthman wrote:
>> If you have Asterisk you just opened up nearly any Wifi phone to your
>> system.  SIP is so universal...
>>
>>   
> 
> Yeah, I have not been keeping up with cell phones. My own is 5years 
> old...doesn't even have a camera or display caller id on the outside of 
> the phone ;(
> 
> A client was telling me he heard there was a cell phone that when not in 
> range of the cell service could connect to ANYONES wifi.
> Hadn't heard that, seen the phones with skype and the t mobile cells, 
> but not cell over voip.
> 
> Which is why I asked here.
> 
> So I take it there is no cell phone service that works off wifi as well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

[Charles Wyble]

Blackberry Curve and Pearl on t-mobile. Works like a champ. Use it all 
the time, along with heavy torrenting and other use.

George Rogato wrote:
> Is there a cell phone that can connect to someones wifi ap and still 
> make phone calls or recieve data when not in range of the cell service?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Cell phone with wifi?

[Charles Wyble]

http://www.villagetelco.org/

Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:
> I bought my E71 unlocked and it is an awesome phone.   It even went 
> through a complete washer/dryer cycle with my laundry and came out just 
> fine (after it dried out for a few hours).
> 
> I have mine setup with my office Asterisk server so that it will try my 
> SIP extension first, then the cell phone number.   It's not perfect, but 
> it works pretty well.   Biggest weakness is the client on the Nokia 
> doesn't always link up to wifi and register the phone automatically.   
> If I could get that sorted out I would be really happy.
> 
> If there were more inexpensive gsm/sip phones available, I think we 
> could potentially have a product competitive with the cellcos.It 
> works like this:
> 
> 1)  Get a GSM/SIP capable cell phone
> 2)  Put in a prepaid GSM card from whatever provider
> 3)  Configure the SIP client to work with an Asterisk or other VOIP server.
> 4)  Port the customer's number to the Asterisk box
> 5)  Set up Asterisk so that it tries the SIP connection first, then goes 
> to the prepaid number if SIP doesn't answer
> 6)  Setup the phone so that it goes out through SIP if available, and 
> GSM if not available.
> 7)  e911 goes through the cell phone (no e911 to worry about!!!)
> 8)  Optimize VOIP traffic so that it runs well on your network, to your 
> VOIP server.
> 
> In theory, this seems like it would work really well.   In my area, cell 
> coverage sucks, so customers would be using their wifi access points as 
> little cell-phone repeaters, but the traffic would actually be on VOIP, 
> rather than the cell carrier.   Since the cell component would be a 
> pre-paid card, the customer could just buy more prepaid cards when they 
> run down.   And 911 is not the VOIP carrier's responsibility - it would 
> be the cell carrier's responsibility.Selling prepaid cards or 
> recharging them could also be a potential revenue stream.
> 
> Only catch - there aren't any cheap phones that will do this.   At least 
> none that I have seen.My Nokia comes VERY close, but it was a $450 
> phone.   We would need to have a $150 phone to make something like this 
> work.   Something like this would take the normal cell phone users bill 
> down by 50% or more each month, even compared to the plans that they are 
> offering now.  
> 
> Anyone else out there doing something like this?
> 
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
> 
> 
> Josh Luthman wrote:
>> Nokia e71 is always unlocked AFAIK (I have never seen a locked one)
>>
>> You use the existing SIM card and get on that GSM network
>>
>> The SIP client connects to his Asterisk server, mine to my M6, your
>> situation may be different...
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 7:08 PM, George Rogato  wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> Jonathan Schmidt wrote:
>>> 
 I have had a series of Nokia phones will use Wi-Fi thru its built-in SIP
 client directly to my office Asterisk and have been doing that for
   
>>> several
>>> 
 years.  The E71 I have now is FAR superior to the earlier models in terms
 of Wi-Fi sensitivity.  I use it in conferences overseas...Europe and
 Brazil and Mexico for free US calling.  It works very well and I leave it
 on during the shows and my office can call me with the 4-digit Asterisk
 extension.  There's a Skype for it and the iPhone, too.

 . . . J o n a t h a n


   
>>> So the Nokia E71 does cell and sip?
>>> Is this ATT?
>>>
>>> Also, do you buy the phone and use existing cell phone card in that
>>> phone and it just works?
>>>
>>> My original question is for one of my clients, but this phone might be
>>> something I want.
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Panel suggests state leases extra ETV capacity to two wireless companies

[Charles Wyble]

jp wrote:
> Based on the article it appears they are just looking to lease that spectrum 
> for cash. 
> Sounds fine to me, as it's what the feds have done for years with their 
> spectrum.
> I bet many states sit on unused or underused spectrum that could utilized for 
> commercial 
> purposes. I prefer unlicensed, but they probably don't have the authority to 
> do that to 
> this spectrum.

Most likely, at least not without federal approval.


> 
> 
> ETV is probably an antiquated system that can or has been replaced with 
> digital TV or 
> videoconferencing over existing Internet service to the places where it is 
> needed. 

Right. And that's the beauty of freeing up spectrum for wireless use. IP 
based services will make for massively more efficient use of it.

All that
> spectrum has probably been tied up for 15 years so a few people at each 
> school could watch 
> an hour or two a week of class from somewhere else. Not saying it's not a 
> good educational 
> tool, but it's a trademark of government inneficiency.

Indeed.  Which is why the spectrum inventory bill introduced recently 
should get our support.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/231502-Google_Counsel_Praises_Spectrum_Inventory_Bill.php
http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/2056





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[WISPA] Geocoding

[Charles Wyble]

Thought folks might dig http://www.johnsample.com/



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Re: [WISPA] Geocoding

[Charles Wyble]

Wow. :(

Worked when I sent it. :)

Josh Luthman wrote:
> Big fat error "Server Application Unavailable"
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
> 
>> Thought folks might dig http://www.johnsample.com/
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] OT: Cisco 7200 Gigabit Ethernet Cards?

[Charles Wyble]

Matt Liotta wrote:
> On Jun 3, 2009, at 3:49 PM, David E. Smith wrote:
> 
>> Did Cisco ever come to their senses on IOS licensing? Used to be, the
>> software on a Cisco router was licensed to an entity separate from the
>> purchase of the hardware. Thus, if you bought a router "used," its
>> (already-installed) copy of IOS was unlicensed and you'd have to buy a
>> new software license to use the router.
>>
> That is FUD from competing vendors.

Uh. No. It's not. It's been stated to me by Cisco personnel.






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Re: [WISPA] OT: Cisco 7200 Gigabit Ethernet Cards?

[Charles Wyble]

>> I have a Cisco pricelist with the relicense fees.
>>
> I am sure you do. The question is who is subject to them and in what  
> case do they apply. I doubt you will provide answers.


Wow. What's your problem?


You treat customers like that as well?



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Re: [WISPA] OT: Cisco 7200 Gigabit Ethernet Cards?

[Charles Wyble]

Stop digging the hole you're in man.

Matt Liotta wrote:
> That is a policy statement. It is not legal fact.
> 
> -Matt



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Re: [WISPA] OT: Cisco 7200 Gigabit Ethernet Cards?

[Charles Wyble]

No one said buying/selling used gear is illegal. They said operation of 
the gear is illegal without a separate license from Cisco.

Jesse Preiner wrote:
> We buy and sell used Cisco routers and switches on a daily basis.  It is
> totally legal and hundreds of companies do what we do and thousands of
> companies (including large multi-nationals) buy and use used Cisco gear.
> The IOS is included in the purchase price of the router or switch since
> it was already paid for from Cisco when the unit was new (it's like
> buying a pc with Windows on it and reselling the pc).  
> 
> What you need to be aware of when buying used Cisco is:
> 
> 1.  Make sure the used unit you are buying has an IOS on it that will
> fit your needs and requirements.  If you need an IOS upgrade, you will
> need to purchase it.
> 
> 2.  You can not put all used Cisco on Smartnet.  Cisco does have certain
> requirements for putting Smartnet on used gear but it can be done and is
> done often.  
> 
> If buying and selling used Cisco WAS illegal in anyway, you would not
> see any on Ebay.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of David E. Smith
> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:39 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: Cisco 7200 Gigabit Ethernet Cards?
> 
> Matt Liotta wrote:
> [ more stuff about Cisco IOS licensing ]
> 
> Apologies for the wall of legalese.
> 
>  From the Cisco EULA at :
> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/general/warranty/English/EU1KEN_.html
> 
>> Customer shall have no right, and Customer specifically agrees not to:
>> transfer, assign or sublicense its license rights to any other person 
>> or entity (other than in compliance with any Cisco 
>> relicensing/transfer policy then in force), or use the Software on 
>> unauthorized or secondhand Cisco equipment
> 
> 
> Cisco's terms of sale incorporate by reference the EULA, which
> incoprorates the software resale policy (as shown above), so the
> original buyer would definitely be in trouble. The second-hand buyer
> could be liable for use of Cisco IP (intellectual property, not the
> other IP) without a proper license; I don't know if there's any case law
> on this, but I'm in no hurry to set a precedent.
> 
> Matt: Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I'm gonna have to stick
> with original assertion, that random second-hand Cisco gear can't
> legally be used. I wish I were wrong, but I'm afraid I'm right.
> 
> David Smith
> MVN.net
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability

[Charles Wyble]

Advice I have heard from lawyers, is NEVER EVER EVER DO THIS (emphasis 
from them).

RickG wrote:
> Very nice info Larry! So, what is your take on incorporating in a
> state other than your home state for tax reasons? Is it worth the
> effort?
> -RickG
> 
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Larry Yunker  
> wrote:
>> What you are referring to is called "corporate formalities".  These same
>> concepts exist with regards to LLC's.   For instance: You must have those
>> officers which the state statute requires (usually president and secretary
>> but some states require others), you must make those filings which the state
>> statute requires, you must properly finance the company, you must reasonably
>> insure the company, you must follow appropriate accounting procedures for
>> the company, you must adhere to your own bylaws - articles of organization
>> or other controlling documents, etc.
>>
>> The bottom line is that the more that you do to treat the company as an
>> independent entity the less likely that someone can "pierce the corporate
>> veil."  The more often that you treat the company like an empty shell or as
>> something owned and controlled solely for your benefit, the more likely it
>> is that a creditor can reach beyond the company and attach to your assets.
>>
>> Yet, I think the most commonly overlooked liability is the dreaded "personal
>> guarantee".  Until your company has built up sufficient credit history of
>> its own, it is likely that you will be asked to guarantee the liabilities of
>> your company.  When you purchase on credit or if you take out a loan, it is
>> quite likely that you will be asked and/or required to sign a personal
>> guarantee regardless of the structure of your company.  If you sign such a
>> document, you may be held personally liable for the underlying debt EVEN IF
>> the company is a limited liability entity (such as a LLC or a S-Corp).  Be
>> CAREFUL, some of these guarantees allow the creditor to seek payment from
>> YOU FIRST instead of even chasing the company!
>>
>> So, keep in mind that one of the biggest reasons for going with a limited
>> liability entity early-on is NOT to limit your liability to creditors (they
>> probably will reach you through personal guarantees).  The reason to go with
>> limited liability from the start is to limit your liability in "tort"
>> (meaning when you or someone that works for you causes someone else to be
>> hurt).  Also remember that torts happen outside of the company AND inside of
>> the company.  I'd say at least half of the calls that I'm fielding these
>> days come from people who have recently been laid-off from their employers
>> and now they are suing their employers for some sort of tort. (wrongful
>> discharge, employment discrimination, sexual harassment, etc.)
>>
>> - Larry
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:29 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
>>
>> Apparently, "meeting minutes" are one of the differences between an
>> LLC & Corporation. I do my "minutes" for the "annual meeting". No
>> biggie, but considering changing over to an LLC.
>> -RickG
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 6:06 AM, George Rogato  wrote:
>>> Yeah, my accountant told me a story about one of his un named clients
>>> who was previously part of a corp . Turns out there was a lawsuit
>>> against a corporation that had filed for bk protection a couple years
>>> earlier.
>>>
>>> The person filing the lawsuit wanted to see the corporate minutes for
>>> the now defunct corporation to see if they were done on a regular basis.
>>>
>>> What they were after is, was it a real corporation that held directors
>>> meetings on a regular basis and kept minutes.
>>>
>>> if not, then the corporation would in fact  be considered an illegal
>>> corporation and the shareholders would then be considered sole
>>> proprietors and the corporations bk would be over turned, leaving them
>>> open to that lawsuit. More so than exposing the share holders to that
>>> type of liability, the share holders, now sole proprietor or partners
>>> would have also filed false tax returns and would be subject to all
>>> those unpaid taxes and penalties interest etc.
>>>
>>> A can of worms indeed, when not done right.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Travis Johnson wrote:
 I understand the corporate structure and how it works. I also know that
 if you follow all the proper corporate bylaws, they can NOT break the
 corporate barrier. Yes, they will try and list each person individually,
 but if you have a good attorney, that is a simple motion to get the
 individuals removed (been there, done that).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> It can be done a lot cheaper.  But we work hard to do it right not cheap
>> these days.
> And the corpora

[WISPA] BTOP news

[Charles Wyble]

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/42373

I thought this was a good article and very insightful. Hope folks find 
it useful.



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Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Wimax

[Charles Wyble]

Well there is NLOS performance and spectrum crowding to be considered. 
Not sure which Mike Cowan was referring to.



Mike Hammett wrote:
> I don't think I'd go that far.  In many areas 2.4 is useless, so by that 
> very token, 3.650 would be a world of better because it's virgin territory.
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> From: "Mike Cowan" 
> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 6:24 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Wimax
> 
>> It is true that a 802.11 based 3.650 product is not going to be any better
>> than 2.4.  A wimax based 3.650 product is going to gve field performance
>> much like 2.4.  A diversity based 3.650 system is going to provide 
>> coverage
>> much like, and oftentimes exceeding that of 900Mhz.  These observations 
>> are
>> based on real field deployments in diverse terrain across the US.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Cowan
>> Wireless Connections
>> A Division of ACC
>> 166 Milan Ave
>> Norwalk, OH 44857
>> 419-660-6100
>> 419-706-7348 Cell
>> 419-668-4077 Fax
>> mi...@wirelessconnections.net
>> www.wirelessconnections.net
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:33 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 3.65 Wimax
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> We have two small 3.65 repeaters (serving only other small WiPOPs). The
>> 3.65 does work, but our experience was that it did not do any better in
>> NLOS than 2.4ghz would already do (when comparing the same type of radio
>> systems). There are several other radio features and "tricks" that the
>> higher-end WiMax companies are doing to get better NLOS, but it is still
>> not comparable to 900mhz.
>>
>> In our area, there is a provider using 2.5ghz licensed WiMax and they
>> still have NLOS issues where our 900mhz Trango system will work just
>> fine. YMMV.
>>
>> Travis
>> Microserv
>>
>> Jeremie Chism wrote:
>>> Several months ago I paid the small fee for the 365 "license" but have 
>>> not
>>> used it. We are looking to deploy something that has a little less
>>> interference since there is quite a bit of 900mhz and 5.8ghz equipment
>>> deployed where we are.   Has anyone tested any of this equipment and how
>> has
>>> it worked.  Also does it possess any NLOS capabilities (I know all the
>>> manufacturers claim they do).
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Jeremie Chism
>>> Triton Communications
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> 
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[WISPA] Pole attachment procedures

[Charles Wyble]

I'm curious if anyone here has gotten access to the utility 
infrastructure in your service area for communications gear?
Also what about mountain top colo facilities?


I'm in Los Angeles county and have been researching the matter.
For the mountain top stuff, it seems it would be best to hook up with 
the hams. Deploying my own tower/power etc would most likely not be 
worth it, and probably not possible as the good spots have existing 
facilitiees.

I found a doc at the CPUC site on Broadband over power lines
http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/published/FINAL_DECISION/56035.htm

which mentions pole attachment and right of way.

However I'm having trouble finding specific procedures. Need to keep 
digging.

Once I figure out the process, what questions should I ask, what things 
should I look out for etc?

Thanks!



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[WISPA] BTOP - mapping

[Charles Wyble]

 From


http://www.ntia.doc.gov/broadbandgrants/BTOPQuarterlyReport_090518.pdf


  In addition,
NTIA intends to release a separate NOFA with respect to the broadband map.

Excellent!

Would be awesome if they break it down per state/major metro area. Such 
that multiple players can bid on the contract and map stuff out. Maybe 
even involve  http://www.openstreetmap.org/

Maybe this will lead to some of the current reporting burden from things 
like geocoding getting some serious examination.

Even better would be correlation of broadband penetration with broadband 
availability. Having this as raw GIS data would facilitate true 
competition.

Ah I'm dreaming again. :)




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Re: [WISPA] BTOP - mapping

[Charles Wyble]

Hrm.

Broadband Map Posted to WebsiteFebruary 17, 2011



Wonder if any of the new census data will be available by then? That 
would help with showing some real numbers/markets/updated incomes etc.



Charles Wyble wrote:
>  From
> 
> 
> http://www.ntia.doc.gov/broadbandgrants/BTOPQuarterlyReport_090518.pdf
> 
> 
>   In addition,
> NTIA intends to release a separate NOFA with respect to the broadband map.
> 
> Excellent!
> 
> Would be awesome if they break it down per state/major metro area. Such 
> that multiple players can bid on the contract and map stuff out. Maybe 
> even involve  http://www.openstreetmap.org/
> 
> Maybe this will lead to some of the current reporting burden from things 
> like geocoding getting some serious examination.
> 
> Even better would be correlation of broadband penetration with broadband 
> availability. Having this as raw GIS data would facilitate true 
> competition.
> 
> Ah I'm dreaming again. :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] document version control? (e.g. web-based solution to "check out" KMZ files)

[Charles Wyble]

KMZ is a binary file format?

What do you use for XLS/Word version control? Or do you simply use the 
built in reconciliation functionality?

I'm also interested in what folks are using for binary source control. 
KMZ/SHP etc.

Rogelio wrote:
> I've got a question that tangentially pertains to wireless stuff, but 
> isn't really related to wireless technology, per se.
> 
> We sometimes have several people working on KMZ files, and the different 
> versions that we have gets really out of hand, and I'm hoping for a 
> web-based (LAMP?) solution that lets people sort of "check out" a KMZ 
> file and then incorporate some sort of version control.
> 
> (This isn't really unique to KMZ files, of course, but could be for any 
> sort of file. It's just that KMZ craziness is killing me more than, say, 
> Word doc or xls craziness.)
> 
> Any nudge in the right direction would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] document version control? (e.g. web-based solution to "check out" KMZ files)

[Charles Wyble]

Ah.

Well then if it's text, git may be useful. Trac is a good frontend, that 
I use on  a regular basis.

Or something more along the lines of sharepoint I really like 
http://www.knowledgetree.com/  http://www.knowledgetree.com/opensource

Rogelio wrote:
> Charles Wyble wrote:
>> KMZ is a binary file format?
> 
> KMZ is an XML-ish format you use for Google Earth locations, which are 
> insanely handy when planning out wi-fi spots
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyhole_Markup_Language
> 
> (While reading the wikipedia page just now, I found this interesting 
> tidbit: "The name "Keyhole" is an homage to the KH reconnaissance 
> satellites, the original eye-in-the-sky military reconnaissance system 
> first launched in 1976.")
> 



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Re: [WISPA] document version control? (e.g. web-based solution to "check out" KMZ files)

[Charles Wyble]

*shudders*

I can't use SVN after using GIT. It's so powerful and elegant.



Scott Reed wrote:
> This is a great solution. 
> I didn't find Subversion so hard to setup and getting tortoise running 
> was just follow the directions.
> Works great.  The fact that tortoise embeds in Windows Explorer means 
> you can search for files just like you do now and check them out with a 
> right-click menu.
> 
> Jon Auer wrote:
>> Ditto.  :-)
>> If you go the subversion route check out tortoise svn for windows
>> desktop client. http://tortoisesvn.tigris.org/
>> Makes subversion on the client side a piece of cake.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 11:49 PM, D. Ryan Spott wrote:
>>   
>>> I apologize for my language. :(
>>>
>>> I am 3 pitchers in after a long week. Turning off the not so smart
>>> phone now!!
>>>
>>> ryan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 5, 2009, at 9:44 PM, Rogelio  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
 On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:27 PM, D. Ryan Spott 
 wrote:
 Subversion. ;)

 Bitch to setup but then easy.

 Thanks, I'll look into possibly doing that also.

   
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Re: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures

[Charles Wyble]

The big carriers don't require a signature on a contract. They also 
don't do (free/near free) installs either. I don't know if there is a 
signed contract if you pay for an install.

Yes I realize this is a very important differentiator that we can 
provide, however I don't feel a signed contract is necessary. An AUP is 
an excellent idea as a general rule, however if they are transiting bits 
on your network, you have the right and obligation to defend that 
network. If you don't, you risk other operators dropping traffic from 
your IP rnage /AS.


Your free to enforce your AUP with impunity. Failure to do so is the 
sole reason that "bits of evil" reach our border routers. A few simple 
route filters, and spam/botnets would be stopped. Subscribe to the Don't 
Route Or Peer List from Spamhaus 
(http://www.spamhaus.org/drop/index.lasso), and monitor outbound traffic.


*sighs*



Martha Huizenga wrote:
> Exactly, we send the contract with the install and then get it back when 
> the install is done. Works fine.
> 
> Jason Hensley wrote:
>> Wow.  Seems like a waste of time and resources.  If I mailed contracts like
>> that here I'd lose half my install opportunities because they would never
>> send the contract back.  Send a contract with the installer, get them to
>> sign it before they install, give one copy to customer, bring one back, done
>> deal.  If nothing else, get an electronic as an initial confirmation, then
>> get an actual signature at install.   
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Scott Reed
>> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:42 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures
>>
>> We currently use a two-year contract for customers.  Right now we gather 
>> the information, generate a contract, USMail it to the customer and wait 
>> for them to USMail it back after they sign it before we schedule an 
>> installation.  We would like to reduce the time from initial contact to 
>> installation.  One option we are looking at is "electronic signature" on 
>> the contract. We have done some research into doing this, but thought it 
>> would be good to get some other input.
>> If you do electronic signatures, how do you do it?
>> If you use a third party to "certify" the signatures, who do you use?  
>> What is good about them?  What is not so good?
>>
>>   
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures

[Charles Wyble]

Ah. Gotcha.

Thanks for clarifying.

RickG wrote:
> Having an AUP is fine but it doesnt spell out the terms of a specific
> obligation between you & the end user. The big carriers obligate you
> to two year contracts when you agree online so I'm assuming we can do
> the same.
> -RickG
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Charles Wyble wrote:
>> The big carriers don't require a signature on a contract. They also
>> don't do (free/near free) installs either. I don't know if there is a
>> signed contract if you pay for an install.
>>
>> Yes I realize this is a very important differentiator that we can
>> provide, however I don't feel a signed contract is necessary. An AUP is
>> an excellent idea as a general rule, however if they are transiting bits
>> on your network, you have the right and obligation to defend that
>> network. If you don't, you risk other operators dropping traffic from
>> your IP rnage /AS.
>>
>>
>> Your free to enforce your AUP with impunity. Failure to do so is the
>> sole reason that "bits of evil" reach our border routers. A few simple
>> route filters, and spam/botnets would be stopped. Subscribe to the Don't
>> Route Or Peer List from Spamhaus
>> (http://www.spamhaus.org/drop/index.lasso), and monitor outbound traffic.
>>
>>
>> *sighs*
>>
>>
>>
>> Martha Huizenga wrote:
>>> Exactly, we send the contract with the install and then get it back when
>>> the install is done. Works fine.
>>>
>>> Jason Hensley wrote:
>>>> Wow.  Seems like a waste of time and resources.  If I mailed contracts like
>>>> that here I'd lose half my install opportunities because they would never
>>>> send the contract back.  Send a contract with the installer, get them to
>>>> sign it before they install, give one copy to customer, bring one back, 
>>>> done
>>>> deal.  If nothing else, get an electronic as an initial confirmation, then
>>>> get an actual signature at install.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Scott Reed
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:42 AM
>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Electronic Signatures
>>>>
>>>> We currently use a two-year contract for customers.  Right now we gather
>>>> the information, generate a contract, USMail it to the customer and wait
>>>> for them to USMail it back after they sign it before we schedule an
>>>> installation.  We would like to reduce the time from initial contact to
>>>> installation.  One option we are looking at is "electronic signature" on
>>>> the contract. We have done some research into doing this, but thought it
>>>> would be good to get some other input.
>>>> If you do electronic signatures, how do you do it?
>>>> If you use a third party to "certify" the signatures, who do you use?
>>>> What is good about them?  What is not so good?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Finding Available Licensed Frequencies

[Charles Wyble]

FCC license database.

Forbes Mercy wrote:
> Is there a tool or resource to find out if certain frequencies are
> available or who owns them to lease them?  I'm particularly looking for
> 2.5 in my area.
> 
> Thanks,
> Forbes Mercy
> President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Conficker Attack?

[Charles Wyble]

Ryan Ghering wrote:

> As a side note, my upstream called this morning, asked if they could remove
> the access-list, stating its policy to only leave ACL's in place for 12 to
> 24 hours.
> I asked them If this was conficker what can be done to permently block it.


Do they have an IPS in place? If they aren't blocking the windows ports 
(which I understand the rational for/against), then I would hope they 
have an IPS in place. If so, signatures are readily available to detect 
conficker.



> They tell me this is my issue not theres.

Heh. Typical.

  So I have to take a chance in 12
> hours when they remove the ACL that my network will be screwed again. An log
> export shows in just a 10 minute period over 18,000 address's denyed on 445
> tcp.

Yep. Sounds about right. They really should implement filtering. Can 
they do an ACL just on your vlan? I understand them not wanting to 
filter at the border. However they should be willing to filter on your 
VLAN. Is this one of the major telcos?



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Re: [WISPA] Project Management Software - Online

[Charles Wyble]

+1 for basecamp.

Yes there are numerous open source LAMP packages, but do you want to be 
in the IT business or the WISP business?

+1 for basecamp. Use it and be happy.

Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote:
> I'm currently running a test project with Basecamp, been so far impressed.
> 
> http://www.basecamphq.com/
> 
> -Israel
> 
> 
> Gino Villarini wrote:
>> Anyone with a recomendation ?
>>  
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini 
>> g...@aeronetpr.com 
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 
>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145 
>>
>>  
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] FTTx

[Charles Wyble]

I'm also interested in this information.

WiFI and other wireless networking technologies have there place, but 
fiber does as well.

Is there any operational lists for small/medium FTTx providers?

Mike Hammett wrote:
> okay, PONs have gotten faster since I last looked.  Last I knew they had 
> peaks of a few hundred megs per it's equivalent of an AP.  Now it's peak is 
> 2.5 GB and there's a new spec due later this year for maybe 10 GB.  I'll 
> open it up to PONs.  ;-)
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:10 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: [WISPA] FTTx
> 
>> Has anyone here done any FTTx deployments?  I'm looking for a non-PON 
>> solution.  Small scale.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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