Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[David E. Smith]

On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 11:09, support  wrote:

>  has anyone been able to get squid to ease the pain of netflix /hulu
> /youtube ???
>

I've played with it in the past, but never could get much out of it. I think
there are two reasons for this.

First, in my network, the pain is actually last-mile (i.e. the extra load on
the last hop to the customer), and short of putting some kind of psychic
predictive cache in the customer's home, that can't be avoided.

The second problem, and the one that's probably more important, is that even
if the content were easily cache-able (it isn't), there wouldn't be much
point to it, because the odds that any two subscribers are watching the same
TV show, at the same time, with the same video settings, being streamed from
the same Akamai server, or within a few hours of one another, is pretty
slim.

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[support]

has anyone been able to get squid to ease the pain of netflix /hulu 
/youtube ???


if yes can you give some pointers?

Thanks

On 11/2/2010 11:05 AM, Marco Coelho wrote:

Between your border router and a properly configured squid server, you can
replace entire domains using wccp.  It's a pain to manage, but doable.

Marco

On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Matt  wrote:


AS # is for BGP advertisements. Akamai has a program for ISPs who use

a

good deal of bandwidth to their network.
http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_program.html

 Basically you give them your AS (you have to be multi homed) and they
see if you meet the minimum bandwidth to their network.  Your upstream(s)
might already be accelerated so you should make some inquiries.

Is there an advantage of this over a connection directly to Akamai?

Seems like DNS is used to determine what server to use:

dig @provider's_dns_server a1.d.akamai.net

The bigger providers seem to resolve too an IP right on there network.
  Several others seem to just have a connection right to Akamai.




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--


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NITLine Support

(574) 772-7550 ext 103

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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Marco Coelho]

Between your border router and a properly configured squid server, you can
replace entire domains using wccp.  It's a pain to manage, but doable.

Marco

On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Matt  wrote:

> >AS # is for BGP advertisements. Akamai has a program for ISPs who use
> a
> > good deal of bandwidth to their network.
> > http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_program.html
> >
> > Basically you give them your AS (you have to be multi homed) and they
> > see if you meet the minimum bandwidth to their network.  Your upstream(s)
> > might already be accelerated so you should make some inquiries.
>
> Is there an advantage of this over a connection directly to Akamai?
>
> Seems like DNS is used to determine what server to use:
>
> dig @provider's_dns_server a1.d.akamai.net
>
> The bigger providers seem to resolve too an IP right on there network.
>  Several others seem to just have a connection right to Akamai.
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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>



-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036



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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Matt]

>    AS # is for BGP advertisements. Akamai has a program for ISPs who use a
> good deal of bandwidth to their network.
> http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_program.html
>
> Basically you give them your AS (you have to be multi homed) and they
> see if you meet the minimum bandwidth to their network.  Your upstream(s)
> might already be accelerated so you should make some inquiries.

Is there an advantage of this over a connection directly to Akamai?

Seems like DNS is used to determine what server to use:

dig @provider's_dns_server a1.d.akamai.net

The bigger providers seem to resolve too an IP right on there network.
 Several others seem to just have a connection right to Akamai.



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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Matt]

> Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are using any amount of
> bandwidth they will colocate in your facilities (for free), so you can serve
> much of the Akamai content locally.

What would be nice is if you could just drop your own Squid box in on
your network with a wide file size caching limits, open only to your
IP pool, give Akamai your IP pools and the IP of the proxy and they
just tell all devices on your network to proxy through it.  No expense
to them but everyone still saves bandwidth.

Think about it, every high school and college could throw one in as well.

Matt



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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Jeremie Chism]

; access providers) dont adapt and upgrade, we will  be left behind.
> But... I'll leave with one critical point..
>  
> How do we accomplish upgrading and adapting in the faster possible way? With 
> Money, right? How do we get money? We need to raise the funds to make these 
> upgrades sooner than later. I see two low hanging fruit sources to put up 
> this money Consumers that can save money by using our service and Content 
> providers paying their share, now when we still have  leverage to encourage 
> them to pony up the cash to fund the upgrades.
>  
> I know what happens when Docsis3 and FIOS come, and the WISP network is NOT 
> yet upgraded. It means lost customers. I wish I could upgrade everything over 
> night, but I cant, not without money. But the more I charge today, the bigger 
> chance I have to earn more money to re-invest, so I'm in a stronger position 
> to compete when Docsis3 and FIOS come.
>  
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>  
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: David E. Smith
> To: WISPA General List
> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:20, Tom DeReggi  wrote:
> Who's gonna pay for that? Should I have to give up my profits this year, so
> that it can be re-invested into my network once again, so Hulu and NetFlix
> can continue to get rich?
> 
> If you want to keep residential customers in a competitive market, yeah, 
> you're gonna have to ease back on the profit-taking and build out your 
> network.
> 
> (I noted that you said you primarily serve business customers, so keep in 
> mind that "you" is the generic ISP, not you personally.)
> 
>  
> I am sick and tired of this attitude that "consumers are entitled" and
> "content providers are entitled". They are not entitled to a free ride.
> 
> Nobody has a free ride in this, though. Netflix/Hulu/whoever is paying TV and 
> movie companies for the right to redistribute content via the Internet, and 
> is paying Akamai/Limelight/whoever for bandwidth to do the actual 
> distribution. The end-user is paying Netflix for access to their collection 
> of movies, and is paying you for Internet connectivity in order to receive 
> bits from the Internet (in this case, bits from Netflix). 
> 
> 
> Sure... I'm perfectly fine with the bandwdith management method of control.
> Bandwdith limit video web sites to 64kbps, and for $9.95 I'll bump it up to
> 1mbps.
> 
> And I'd be fine with charging my customers one penny per bit (or buy a whole 
> byte for only six cents!) but the customers probably wouldn't like that plan 
> very much at all. If your users are okay with this, go right ahead.
> 
> Whats important to me is that laws are not made that empower moochers to
> have the right to unlimited mooching, at the expense of honorable
> businessmen access providers.
> 
> 
> Who, in this scenario, is mooching?
> 
> David Smith
> MVN.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Tom DeReggi]

>Obviously depends on your infrastructure. We own 19 sites out of the 
>roughly 28 sites utilized in our network. The others we have long term 
>lease agreements for entire rooms, not >just racks. It costs us next to 
>nothing to rack equipment.

And the benefit of splitting the Fiber transport from Transit contract, so 
have Fiber transport out of the colo to a nearby facility that is self 
owned. Put core router in the colo, and then all the servers down the street 
at much more affordable rates. Its getting quite funny now that Gig-E 
transport can be less expensive than a full Rack Cabnet in Colo.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Blake Covarrubias" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's


On Aug 31, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

> Also, hosting their servers is not necessarilyl free. For example, the 
> most
> logicial place to put it might be at one's NOC. That NOC might reside at a
> Colo. At $50 per U of space, that is a residual cost that you will pay.

Obviously depends on your infrastructure. We own 19 sites out of the roughly 
28 sites utilized in our network. The others we have long term lease 
agreements for entire rooms, not just racks. It costs us next to nothing to 
rack equipment.

> And how many Us are each of Akamai's 3 servers in the base configuration?
> Note with 100mb for $150/month in a colo, paying teh reoccuring rack fees
> would be more expensive than buying an extra 100mb of bandwidth, thus I'd
> argue even for the ISP there is a minimum usage capacity before it would 
> be
> cost beneficial the the ISP as well, not just Akamai.

Akamai won't even consider an ISP for the Accelerated Network Partner 
program until there is on average at least 75mbps of traffic flowing between 
ISP & Akamai. At that point I'd say installing Akamai's CDN servers would be 
of great benefit to the ISP. It would cut down on that transit traffic & 
free up external bandwidth for other applications. 100mbps isn't that cheap 
for some of us. In fact its about to cost me an additional $750/mo to add 
that to an existing connection. I'd surely take Akamai's servers over adding 
more transit any day.

Also, the purpose of installing Akamai servers into ones network is to bring 
content *closer* to users. Buying bandwidth will increase your capacity to 
the rest of the world but doesn't do much to reduce latency (unless you're 
already at capacity). Decreased latency is something a customer *will* 
notice. Adding more bandwidth…not so much.

--
Blake Covarrubias



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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Tom DeReggi]

ave to earn more money to re-invest, so I'm in a stronger position to 
compete when Docsis3 and FIOS come.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: David E. Smith 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:39 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's




  On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:20, Tom DeReggi  wrote:

Who's gonna pay for that? Should I have to give up my profits this year, so
that it can be re-invested into my network once again, so Hulu and NetFlix
can continue to get rich?



  If you want to keep residential customers in a competitive market, yeah, 
you're gonna have to ease back on the profit-taking and build out your network.


  (I noted that you said you primarily serve business customers, so keep in 
mind that "you" is the generic ISP, not you personally.)



I am sick and tired of this attitude that "consumers are entitled" and
"content providers are entitled". They are not entitled to a free ride.


  Nobody has a free ride in this, though. Netflix/Hulu/whoever is paying TV and 
movie companies for the right to redistribute content via the Internet, and is 
paying Akamai/Limelight/whoever for bandwidth to do the actual distribution. 
The end-user is paying Netflix for access to their collection of movies, and is 
paying you for Internet connectivity in order to receive bits from the Internet 
(in this case, bits from Netflix). 




Sure... I'm perfectly fine with the bandwdith management method of control.
Bandwdith limit video web sites to 64kbps, and for $9.95 I'll bump it up to
1mbps.



  And I'd be fine with charging my customers one penny per bit (or buy a whole 
byte for only six cents!) but the customers probably wouldn't like that plan 
very much at all. If your users are okay with this, go right ahead.


Whats important to me is that laws are not made that empower moochers to
have the right to unlimited mooching, at the expense of honorable
businessmen access providers.





  Who, in this scenario, is mooching?


  David Smith
  MVN.net




--




  

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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Matt]

> Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are using any amount of
> bandwidth they will colocate in your facilities (for free), so you can serve
> much of the Akamai content locally.

Do Akamai cache boxes actually cache Netflix video?  I presume they
cache things like PS3 updates and the like but I would not be so sure
about streaming video.

Matt



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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Blake Covarrubias]

On Aug 31, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

> Also, hosting their servers is not necessarilyl free. For example, the most 
> logicial place to put it might be at one's NOC. That NOC might reside at a 
> Colo. At $50 per U of space, that is a residual cost that you will pay.

Obviously depends on your infrastructure. We own 19 sites out of the roughly 28 
sites utilized in our network. The others we have long term lease agreements 
for entire rooms, not just racks. It costs us next to nothing to rack equipment.

> And how many Us are each of Akamai's 3 servers in the base configuration? 
> Note with 100mb for $150/month in a colo, paying teh reoccuring rack fees 
> would be more expensive than buying an extra 100mb of bandwidth, thus I'd 
> argue even for the ISP there is a minimum usage capacity before it would be 
> cost beneficial the the ISP as well, not just Akamai.

Akamai won't even consider an ISP for the Accelerated Network Partner program 
until there is on average at least 75mbps of traffic flowing between ISP & 
Akamai. At that point I'd say installing Akamai's CDN servers would be of great 
benefit to the ISP. It would cut down on that transit traffic & free up 
external bandwidth for other applications. 100mbps isn't that cheap for some of 
us. In fact its about to cost me an additional $750/mo to add that to an 
existing connection. I'd surely take Akamai's servers over adding more transit 
any day.

Also, the purpose of installing Akamai servers into ones network is to bring 
content *closer* to users. Buying bandwidth will increase your capacity to the 
rest of the world but doesn't do much to reduce latency (unless you're already 
at capacity). Decreased latency is something a customer *will* notice. Adding 
more bandwidth…not so much.

--
Blake Covarrubias



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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[David E. Smith]

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 11:20, Tom DeReggi  wrote:

> Who's gonna pay for that? Should I have to give up my profits this year, so
> that it can be re-invested into my network once again, so Hulu and NetFlix
> can continue to get rich?
>

If you want to keep residential customers in a competitive market, yeah,
you're gonna have to ease back on the profit-taking and build out your
network.

(I noted that you said you primarily serve business customers, so keep in
mind that "you" is the generic ISP, not you personally.)



> I am sick and tired of this attitude that "consumers are entitled" and
> "content providers are entitled". They are not entitled to a free ride.


Nobody has a free ride in this, though. Netflix/Hulu/whoever is paying TV
and movie companies for the right to redistribute content via the Internet,
and is paying Akamai/Limelight/whoever for bandwidth to do the actual
distribution. The end-user is paying Netflix for access to their collection
of movies, and is paying you for Internet connectivity in order to receive
bits from the Internet (in this case, bits from Netflix).


Sure... I'm perfectly fine with the bandwdith management method of control.
> Bandwdith limit video web sites to 64kbps, and for $9.95 I'll bump it up to
> 1mbps.
>

And I'd be fine with charging my customers one penny per bit (or buy a whole
byte for only six cents!) but the customers probably wouldn't like that plan
very much at all. If your users are okay with this, go right ahead.

Whats important to me is that laws are not made that empower moochers to
> have the right to unlimited mooching, at the expense of honorable
> businessmen access providers.
>
>
Who, in this scenario, is mooching?

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Tom DeReggi]

In areas where I already have 20mb line of sight sectors, yeah, no problem.

But lets face it, to handle video, ISPs are going to have to make network 
upgrades at every sector and CPE, sooner or later.
Who's gonna pay for that? Should I have to give up my profits this year, so 
that it can be re-invested into my network once again, so Hulu and NetFlix 
can continue to get rich?
Even if I replace just the pre-existing customer CPE with a Ubiquiti, at 
$89/radio, that almost a year ROI to break even, IF I still charge the 
customer an additiaonl $9.95/month for their ability to use NetFlix and 
Hulu.

Its sorta like fund raising.  I got an idea... How about asking Hulu, 
NetFlix, and Google, to co-sign my Loan/Lease papers or better yet Lend me 
the money, to make the network upgrades that are necessary for my customers 
to use VIDEO adequately.  I dont see them passing out Loan applications, nor 
do I see their CFO with a pen in hand.

I am sick and tired of this attitude that "consumers are entitled" and 
"content providers are entitled". They are not entitled to a free ride. I am 
not getting rich, and the facts are the majority of my customers need me. I 
provide something to them that they need. And video wasn't one of them 
initially. I never signed up for delivering Video. I CAN deliver video, but 
they have to pay for it, if they want it.  Its not my responsibilty to pay 
for it.

There is nothing worse than a moocher. Thats all these content providers do, 
looking for a free ride, mooch mooch mooch, while they sneak off to the bank 
with their large paycheck.

Sure... I'm perfectly fine with the bandwdith management method of control. 
Bandwdith limit video web sites to 64kbps, and for $9.95 I'll bump it up to 
1mbps.

As a disclaimer... I dont currently block or limit anything. I mostly serve 
high capacity business, so I have not been hit much by the video bandwdith 
abuse yet, so I have been able to overlook the issue, and have not had to 
take any action. And as long as it is not a problem, I have no need to 
address it. But one day it will be a problem. And EVERYONE should ask, "who 
should pay for it?".  In some cases, maybe the ISP should pay for it. For 
example, If they are heathilly profitable, and have reach comfortable scale 
and finance abilty, and in a competitive environment, maybe it is then their 
responsibilty to stay competitive and upgrade at their own cost. But it can 
not be assumed that all ISPs are in that position nor that all consumers are 
in that position..

Whats important to me is that laws are not made that empower moochers to 
have the right to unlimited mooching, at the expense of honorable 
businessmen access providers.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Jeromie Reeves" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's


Why not bandwidth shape them down to something reasonable? I find
1.1~1.2mbit for netflix and it looks fine. they will each 5mbit if you
let it. This keeps things pretty manageable here.b

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Tom DeReggi  
wrote:
> OK, so should we be doing DNS redirecting.
>
> Redirect "hulu.com" to "allowvideo.com" for $9.95 Shopping Cart item.
>
> Alacart content?
>
> Its no different than Microsoft Windows XP, being allowed to bundle
> Iexplorer and MSN with WindowsOS, as long as they included signup links 
> for
> downloading and subscribing to NetScape and one ro two other Big Internet
> Providers.
>
> As long as its not discriminatory Make sure to include an Allow Item 
> for
> EVERY Video Provider you can think of Example
>
> Welcome to Allow Video.com Shopping Cart.
> 1. Enable Hulu $9.95
> 2. Enable NetFlix $9.95
> 3. Enable GoogleTV $9.95
> 4. Enable ESPN360 $9.95 (Note... would redirect to third party ISP
> partnering with your ISP able to deliver an ESPN360 compatible IP or 
> cached
> data :-)
> 5. Enable MYISP TV (Note: charge for access to your own Video services 
> that
> you self host/offer, so its availble accross other ISPs also from this 
> site,
> and so non-discriminary)
>
> Disclaimer: This site/fee allows access to reach the above video provider
> sites. Access to enter and obtain the site's offered services and content 
> is
> not covered by this fee. Additional subscription fees may be required
> directly by the Video content provider. View their sites for their fees,
> terms and conditions..
>
> So.
> Comcast my video access provider charges consumers $9.95 for HBO and $9.95
> more for Showtime alacart, why cant I as the Internet Access provider 
> charge
> my subs the same?
>
> The problem is NOT charging for content. The

Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Jeromie Reeves]

The prob;lem I ran into with building out to them is they want those loop
fees for  the fiber huts + a break in fee. I have someone who says
he can get me into a place with out much if any fee, at $20/mbit. We will
see.

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Nick Olsen wrote:

> Yeah, Loop fee's are the killer. On-net bandwidth is cheap bandwidth. I've
> seen cogent come down to $3 per megabit.
> And I've heard of Hurricane electric going as low as 75 cents per megabit.
> Just got to build out to them.
>
>
> Nick Olsen
> Network Operations
> (321) 205-1100 x106
>
>
>
> --
> *From*: "Jeromie Reeves" 
> *Sent*: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 11:51 PM
> *To*: n...@brevardwireless.com, "WISPA General List" 
>
> *Subject*: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>
>
> Yup I bet it could. Ive seen 2 of them at the same time max out a 15mbit
> pipe. That lasted about as long as it took to re-enable the bw queues.
> Still a dozen or so and the eat the entire pipe and i knock em down a tad
> more, but under 900kbit and it seams to choke up. After moving to Ubnt M
> gear, my net feed is my bottleneck for sure these days. Looking at getting
> fiber points out at the ends of the network but its not easy to get away
> from that loop fee and that kills it for now.
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Nick Olsen wrote:
>
>> I think the big thing here is the way they do video. Hulu, has like 3
>> quality settings. And you set them. Atleast with the desktop app, The flash
>> on the pages will try to autoselect. Netflix is much more in depth. It just
>> picks what works, With the ability to go WAY down on bitrate. When I had a
>> netflix account, It could pull as little as like 200-300 K and the video was
>> about as good as what you got out of the first camera phones. But then I've
>> seen it jump all the way up to like 8Mb/s to do "SD" quality. This was all
>> on a PC, Which only does "SD" where the consoles and set top boxes will do
>> HD. Don't want to even imagine what they can pull if its maxed out, And you
>> have the capacity on hand. I'd guess something like 15-20Mb/s
>>
>>
>>  Nick Olsen
>> Network Operations
>> (321) 205-1100 x106
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>> *From*: "Jeromie Reeves" 
>> *Sent*: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 11:29 PM
>> *To*: j284...@yahoo.com, "WISPA General List" 
>>
>> *Subject*: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>>
>>
>> Yea hulu is hungry. Netflix has a much better codec. I would love it
>> if WISPA could work some kind of deal with netflix so that we could
>> offer netflix for 'free' with a specific package. If they charge 8.99
>> I can see some kind of package deal along with one of the caching
>> server setups. With the Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360 support most of my users
>> would not even need a pc or other STB device. If my cost was in the 3
>> to 5$ range I know I would have to beat them off with a stick and
>> would naturally only be packaged with the correct accounts. Add in the
>> correct voip setup (still on the look out for a good rebrandable voip)
>> and it would be a good triple.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:49 PM,  wrote:
>> > Agreed on hulu,its hungry!
>> > Sent from my BlackBerry®
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Jeremie Chism 
>> > Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>> > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:30:22
>>  > To: WISPA General List
>>  > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>   >
>> 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >
>> 
>> >
>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >
>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >
>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >
>> 
>> >
>> > WISPA Wireless Lis

Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Nick Olsen]

Yeah, Loop fee's are the killer. On-net bandwidth is cheap bandwidth. I've seen 
cogent come down to $3 per megabit.
And I've heard of Hurricane electric going as low as 75 cents per megabit. Just 
got to build out to them.

Nick Olsen
Network Operations
(321) 205-1100 x106



From: "Jeromie Reeves" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 11:51 PM
To: n...@brevardwireless.com, "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Yup I bet it could. Ive seen 2 of them at the same time max out a 15mbit pipe. 
That lasted about as long as it took to re-enable the bw queues.
Still a dozen or so and the eat the entire pipe and i knock em down a tad more, 
but under 900kbit and it seams to choke up. After moving to Ubnt M gear, my net 
feed is my bottleneck for sure these days. Looking at getting fiber points out 
at the ends of the network but its not easy to get away from that loop fee and 
that kills it for now.

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Nick Olsen  wrote:

I think the big thing here is the way they do video. Hulu, has like 3 quality 
settings. And you set them. Atleast with the desktop app, The flash on the 
pages will try to autoselect. Netflix is much more in depth. It just picks what 
works, With the ability to go WAY down on bitrate. When I had a netflix 
account, It could pull as little as like 200-300 K and the video was about as 
good as what you got out of the first camera phones. But then I've seen it jump 
all the way up to like 8Mb/s to do "SD" quality. This was all on a PC, Which 
only does "SD" where the consoles and set top boxes will do HD. Don't want to 
even imagine what they can pull if its maxed out, And you have the capacity on 
hand. I'd guess something like 15-20Mb/s




Nick Olsen
Network Operations
(321) 205-1100 x106



From: "Jeromie Reeves" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 11:29 PM
To: j284...@yahoo.com, "WISPA General List" 

Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's


Yea hulu is hungry. Netflix has a much better codec. I would love it
if WISPA could work some kind of deal with netflix so that we could
offer netflix for 'free' with a specific package. If they charge 8.99
I can see some kind of package deal along with one of the caching
server setups. With the Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360 support most of my users
would not even need a pc or other STB device. If my cost was in the 3
to 5$ range I know I would have to beat them off with a stick and
would naturally only be packaged with the correct accounts. Add in the
correct voip setup (still on the look out for a good rebrandable voip)
and it would be a good triple.

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:49 PM,   wrote:
> Agreed on hulu,its hungry!
> Sent from my BlackBerry®
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jeremie Chism 
> Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:30:22


> To: WISPA General List


> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>
>
>




> 
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> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Jeromie Reeves]

Yup I bet it could. Ive seen 2 of them at the same time max out a 15mbit
pipe. That lasted about as long as it took to re-enable the bw queues.
Still a dozen or so and the eat the entire pipe and i knock em down a tad
more, but under 900kbit and it seams to choke up. After moving to Ubnt M
gear, my net feed is my bottleneck for sure these days. Looking at getting
fiber points out at the ends of the network but its not easy to get away
from that loop fee and that kills it for now.

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Nick Olsen wrote:

> I think the big thing here is the way they do video. Hulu, has like 3
> quality settings. And you set them. Atleast with the desktop app, The flash
> on the pages will try to autoselect. Netflix is much more in depth. It just
> picks what works, With the ability to go WAY down on bitrate. When I had a
> netflix account, It could pull as little as like 200-300 K and the video was
> about as good as what you got out of the first camera phones. But then I've
> seen it jump all the way up to like 8Mb/s to do "SD" quality. This was all
> on a PC, Which only does "SD" where the consoles and set top boxes will do
> HD. Don't want to even imagine what they can pull if its maxed out, And you
> have the capacity on hand. I'd guess something like 15-20Mb/s
>
>
> Nick Olsen
> Network Operations
> (321) 205-1100 x106
>
>
>
> --
> *From*: "Jeromie Reeves" 
> *Sent*: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 11:29 PM
> *To*: j284...@yahoo.com, "WISPA General List" 
>
> *Subject*: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>
>
> Yea hulu is hungry. Netflix has a much better codec. I would love it
> if WISPA could work some kind of deal with netflix so that we could
> offer netflix for 'free' with a specific package. If they charge 8.99
> I can see some kind of package deal along with one of the caching
> server setups. With the Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360 support most of my users
> would not even need a pc or other STB device. If my cost was in the 3
> to 5$ range I know I would have to beat them off with a stick and
> would naturally only be packaged with the correct accounts. Add in the
> correct voip setup (still on the look out for a good rebrandable voip)
> and it would be a good triple.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:49 PM,  wrote:
> > Agreed on hulu,its hungry!
> > Sent from my BlackBerry®
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jeremie Chism 
> > Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:30:22
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
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>
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Nick Olsen]

I think the big thing here is the way they do video. Hulu, has like 3 quality 
settings. And you set them. Atleast with the desktop app, The flash on the 
pages will try to autoselect. Netflix is much more in depth. It just picks what 
works, With the ability to go WAY down on bitrate. When I had a netflix 
account, It could pull as little as like 200-300 K and the video was about as 
good as what you got out of the first camera phones. But then I've seen it jump 
all the way up to like 8Mb/s to do "SD" quality. This was all on a PC, Which 
only does "SD" where the consoles and set top boxes will do HD. Don't want to 
even imagine what they can pull if its maxed out, And you have the capacity on 
hand. I'd guess something like 15-20Mb/s

Nick Olsen
Network Operations
(321) 205-1100 x106



From: "Jeromie Reeves" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 11:29 PM
To: j284...@yahoo.com, "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Yea hulu is hungry. Netflix has a much better codec. I would love it
if WISPA could work some kind of deal with netflix so that we could
offer netflix for 'free' with a specific package. If they charge 8.99
I can see some kind of package deal along with one of the caching
server setups. With the Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360 support most of my users
would not even need a pc or other STB device. If my cost was in the 3
to 5$ range I know I would have to beat them off with a stick and
would naturally only be packaged with the correct accounts. Add in the
correct voip setup (still on the look out for a good rebrandable voip)
and it would be a good triple.

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:49 PM,   wrote:
> Agreed on hulu,its hungry!
> Sent from my BlackBerry®
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jeremie Chism 
> Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:30:22
> To: WISPA General List
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Nick Olsen]

Yeah, They got back to me today. Said over the last 30 days we have a 9Mb/s 
avg. And 75mb/s is required.

Nick Olsen
Network Operations
(321) 205-1100 x106



From: "Blake Covarrubias" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 10:57 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Emailed Akamai last night. Got a response back today saying we're pulling 
an average of 19mbps from them, and do not meet the minimum requirement of 
75mbps required to qualify for the Accelerated Network Partner program.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Aug 31, 2010, at 6:27 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:

> I really don't know...we haven't tracked it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Mike Hammett  
wrote:
>  How much are you passing to them?
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/31/2010 7:18 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> > We have asked, and were told that they don't see enough traffic coming
> > from our ASN.  Is there someone else we can contact?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Glenn Kelley  
wrote:
> >> I have helped a wisp get this with 700 customers and about 30mbps
> >> I have helped another get one with about 500 customers and about 
50mbps
> >> So - just ask
> >> Truth is - they want to put these in - they crave new locations like 
you
> >> would not believe.
> >>
> >> On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> >>
> >> 00+Mbps and we don't have "thousands" of customers...but we do have 
1500+.
> >> Regards,
> >> Chuck
> >>
> >> 

_
> >> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
> >>Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
> >> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 


> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Jeromie Reeves]

Yea hulu is hungry. Netflix has a much better codec. I would love it
if WISPA could work some kind of deal with netflix so that we could
offer netflix for 'free' with a specific package. If they charge 8.99
I can see some kind of package deal along with one of the caching
server setups. With the Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360 support most of my users
would not even need a pc or other STB device. If my cost was in the 3
to 5$ range I know I would have to beat them off with a stick and
would naturally only be packaged with the correct accounts. Add in the
correct voip setup (still on the look out for a good rebrandable voip)
and it would be a good triple.



On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:49 PM,   wrote:
> Agreed on hulu,its hungry!
> Sent from my BlackBerry®
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jeremie Chism 
> Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:30:22
> To: WISPA General List
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[j2840fl]

Agreed on hulu,its hungry!
Sent from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: Jeremie Chism 
Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:30:22 
To: WISPA General List
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's




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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Jeremie Chism]

I meant to say this comment referred to hulu not netflix

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 31, 2010, at 6:16 PM, Jason Bailey  wrote:

> My customers that run 1Mb down use it and have no trouble?Excessive 
> bursting,then throttling will cause rebuffering after initial burst i have 
> found.
> 
> --- On Tue, 8/31/10, Jeremie Chism  wrote:
> 
> From: Jeremie Chism 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 7:09 PM
> 
> Under 3mb causes alot of complaints due to repeated buffeting. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Aug 31, 2010, at 2:45 PM, Jeromie Reeves  wrote:
> 
> > Why not bandwidth shape them down to something reasonable? I find
> > 1.1~1.2mbit for netflix and it looks fine. they will each 5mbit if you
> > let it. This keeps things pretty manageable here.b
> > 
> > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Tom DeReggi  
> > wrote:
> >> OK, so should we be doing DNS redirecting.
> >> 
> >> Redirect "hulu.com" to  "allowvideo.com" for $9.95 Shopping Cart item.
> >> 
> >> Alacart content?
> >> 
> >> Its no different than Microsoft Windows XP, being allowed to bundle
> >> Iexplorer and MSN with WindowsOS, as long as they included signup links for
> >> downloading and subscribing to NetScape and one ro two other Big Internet
> >> Providers.
> >> 
> >> As long as its not discriminatory Make sure to include an Allow Item 
> >> for
> >> EVERY Video Provider you can think of Example
> >> 
> >> Welcome to Allow Video.com Shopping Cart.
> >> 1. Enable Hulu $9.95
> >> 2. Enable NetFlix $9.95
> >> 3. Enable GoogleTV $9.95
> >> 4. Enable ESPN360 $9.95  (Note... would redirect to third party ISP
> >> partnering with your ISP able to deliver an ESPN360 compatible IP or cached
> >> data :-)
> >> 5. Enable MYISP TV  (Note: charge for access to your own Video services 
> >> that
> >> you self host/offer, so its availble accross other ISPs also from this 
> >> site,
> >> and so non-discriminary)
> >> 
> >> Disclaimer: This site/fee allows access to reach the above video provider
> >> sites. Access to enter and obtain the site's offered services and content 
> >> is
> >> not covered by this fee. Additional subscription fees may be required
> >> directly by the Video content provider. View their sites for their fees,
> >> terms and conditions..
> >> 
> >> So.
> >> Comcast my video access provider charges consumers $9.95 for HBO and $9.95
> >> more for Showtime alacart, why cant I as the Internet Access provider 
> >> charge
> >> my subs the same?
> >> 
> >> The problem is NOT charging for content. The problem is not allowing some 
> >> to
> >> buy access to content. The problem is not allowing all to carry or resell
> >> the content.
> >> 
> >> The facts are...Verizon and Comcasts wont charge for content, if we are
> >> allowed to carry content and we choose to not charge for it. If we charge
> >> more than the market will bear, consumers will leave us, and that keeps us
> >> honeset and fair. Its already established that Consumers have been willing
> >> to pay for content.
> >> 
> >>  If the video content providers complain, tell them you'll give them a
> >> revenue share if they send you a caching server for you to host::-)
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Tom DeReggi
> >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> >> 
> >> 
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:02 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
> >> 
> >> I don't think there are any laws on it at this point.  It's like
> >> ESPN's service - the default policy is to block but there is an accept
> >> policy for those that pay.
> >> 
> >>> If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???
> >> 
> >> Lots of overhead, lots of DNS queries.
> >> 
> >> Josh Luthman
> >> Office: 937-552-2340
> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >> 1100 Wayne St
> >> Suite 1337
> >> Troy, OH 45373
> >> 
> >> 
&

Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Jason Bailey]

My customers that run 1Mb down use it and have no trouble?Excessive 
bursting,then throttling will cause rebuffering after initial burst i have 
found.

--- On Tue, 8/31/10, Jeremie Chism  wrote:


From: Jeremie Chism 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
To: "WISPA General List" 
Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 7:09 PM


Under 3mb causes alot of complaints due to repeated buffeting. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 31, 2010, at 2:45 PM, Jeromie Reeves  wrote:

> Why not bandwidth shape them down to something reasonable? I find
> 1.1~1.2mbit for netflix and it looks fine. they will each 5mbit if you
> let it. This keeps things pretty manageable here.b
> 
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Tom DeReggi  
> wrote:
>> OK, so should we be doing DNS redirecting.
>> 
>> Redirect "hulu.com" to  "allowvideo.com" for $9.95 Shopping Cart item.
>> 
>> Alacart content?
>> 
>> Its no different than Microsoft Windows XP, being allowed to bundle
>> Iexplorer and MSN with WindowsOS, as long as they included signup links for
>> downloading and subscribing to NetScape and one ro two other Big Internet
>> Providers.
>> 
>> As long as its not discriminatory Make sure to include an Allow Item for
>> EVERY Video Provider you can think of Example
>> 
>> Welcome to Allow Video.com Shopping Cart.
>> 1. Enable Hulu $9.95
>> 2. Enable NetFlix $9.95
>> 3. Enable GoogleTV $9.95
>> 4. Enable ESPN360 $9.95  (Note... would redirect to third party ISP
>> partnering with your ISP able to deliver an ESPN360 compatible IP or cached
>> data :-)
>> 5. Enable MYISP TV  (Note: charge for access to your own Video services that
>> you self host/offer, so its availble accross other ISPs also from this site,
>> and so non-discriminary)
>> 
>> Disclaimer: This site/fee allows access to reach the above video provider
>> sites. Access to enter and obtain the site's offered services and content is
>> not covered by this fee. Additional subscription fees may be required
>> directly by the Video content provider. View their sites for their fees,
>> terms and conditions..
>> 
>> So.
>> Comcast my video access provider charges consumers $9.95 for HBO and $9.95
>> more for Showtime alacart, why cant I as the Internet Access provider charge
>> my subs the same?
>> 
>> The problem is NOT charging for content. The problem is not allowing some to
>> buy access to content. The problem is not allowing all to carry or resell
>> the content.
>> 
>> The facts are...Verizon and Comcasts wont charge for content, if we are
>> allowed to carry content and we choose to not charge for it. If we charge
>> more than the market will bear, consumers will leave us, and that keeps us
>> honeset and fair. Its already established that Consumers have been willing
>> to pay for content.
>> 
>>  If the video content providers complain, tell them you'll give them a
>> revenue share if they send you a caching server for you to host::-)
>> 
>> 
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>> 
>> 
>>> Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
>> 
>> I don't think there are any laws on it at this point.  It's like
>> ESPN's service - the default policy is to block but there is an accept
>> policy for those that pay.
>> 
>>> If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???
>> 
>> Lots of overhead, lots of DNS queries.
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Robert Kim Wireless Internet Advisor
>>  wrote:
>>> WAIT...
>>> 
>>> Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
>>> If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Paul Gerstenberger 
>>> wrote:
>>>> Our TOS is written in such that we can regulate them if they are
>>>> interfering with other customers. Our problem isn't upstream bandwidth,
>>>> but the wireless network (in places). We need to use Trango 900s in
>>>> places, hard to educate people that their using netflix ruins the
>>

Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Jeremie Chism]

Under 3mb causes alot of complaints due to repeated buffeting. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 31, 2010, at 2:45 PM, Jeromie Reeves  wrote:

> Why not bandwidth shape them down to something reasonable? I find
> 1.1~1.2mbit for netflix and it looks fine. they will each 5mbit if you
> let it. This keeps things pretty manageable here.b
> 
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Tom DeReggi  
> wrote:
>> OK, so should we be doing DNS redirecting.
>> 
>> Redirect "hulu.com" to  "allowvideo.com" for $9.95 Shopping Cart item.
>> 
>> Alacart content?
>> 
>> Its no different than Microsoft Windows XP, being allowed to bundle
>> Iexplorer and MSN with WindowsOS, as long as they included signup links for
>> downloading and subscribing to NetScape and one ro two other Big Internet
>> Providers.
>> 
>> As long as its not discriminatory Make sure to include an Allow Item for
>> EVERY Video Provider you can think of Example
>> 
>> Welcome to Allow Video.com Shopping Cart.
>> 1. Enable Hulu $9.95
>> 2. Enable NetFlix $9.95
>> 3. Enable GoogleTV $9.95
>> 4. Enable ESPN360 $9.95  (Note... would redirect to third party ISP
>> partnering with your ISP able to deliver an ESPN360 compatible IP or cached
>> data :-)
>> 5. Enable MYISP TV  (Note: charge for access to your own Video services that
>> you self host/offer, so its availble accross other ISPs also from this site,
>> and so non-discriminary)
>> 
>> Disclaimer: This site/fee allows access to reach the above video provider
>> sites. Access to enter and obtain the site's offered services and content is
>> not covered by this fee. Additional subscription fees may be required
>> directly by the Video content provider. View their sites for their fees,
>> terms and conditions..
>> 
>> So.
>> Comcast my video access provider charges consumers $9.95 for HBO and $9.95
>> more for Showtime alacart, why cant I as the Internet Access provider charge
>> my subs the same?
>> 
>> The problem is NOT charging for content. The problem is not allowing some to
>> buy access to content. The problem is not allowing all to carry or resell
>> the content.
>> 
>> The facts are...Verizon and Comcasts wont charge for content, if we are
>> allowed to carry content and we choose to not charge for it. If we charge
>> more than the market will bear, consumers will leave us, and that keeps us
>> honeset and fair. Its already established that Consumers have been willing
>> to pay for content.
>> 
>>  If the video content providers complain, tell them you'll give them a
>> revenue share if they send you a caching server for you to host::-)
>> 
>> 
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>> 
>> 
>>> Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
>> 
>> I don't think there are any laws on it at this point.  It's like
>> ESPN's service - the default policy is to block but there is an accept
>> policy for those that pay.
>> 
>>> If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???
>> 
>> Lots of overhead, lots of DNS queries.
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Robert Kim Wireless Internet Advisor
>>  wrote:
>>> WAIT...
>>> 
>>> Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
>>> If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Paul Gerstenberger 
>>> wrote:
>>>> Our TOS is written in such that we can regulate them if they are
>>>> interfering with other customers. Our problem isn't upstream bandwidth,
>>>> but the wireless network (in places). We need to use Trango 900s in
>>>> places, hard to educate people that their using netflix ruins the
>>>> internet for X number of other customers on that AP... when many other
>>>> customers on the network can use netfix with no problems.
>>>> 
>>>> We do not have an enforced overage policy, but with the increased
>>>> accounting with our PPPoE changeover, we will be able to enfor

Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Jerry Richardson]

Good idea.

All my models fail. I simply can't charge enough to justify it. The  
lack of spectrum is the limiter.

Jerry Richardson
Sent Mobile

On Aug 31, 2010, at 12:19 PM, "Tom DeReggi"  
 wrote:

> OK, so should we be doing DNS redirecting.
>
> Redirect "hulu.com" to  "allowvideo.com" for $9.95 Shopping Cart  
> item.
>
> Alacart content?
>
> Its no different than Microsoft Windows XP, being allowed to bundle
> Iexplorer and MSN with WindowsOS, as long as they included signup  
> links for
> downloading and subscribing to NetScape and one ro two other Big  
> Internet
> Providers.
>
> As long as its not discriminatory Make sure to include an Allow  
> Item for
> EVERY Video Provider you can think of Example
>
> Welcome to Allow Video.com Shopping Cart.
> 1. Enable Hulu $9.95
> 2. Enable NetFlix $9.95
> 3. Enable GoogleTV $9.95
> 4. Enable ESPN360 $9.95  (Note... would redirect to third party ISP
> partnering with your ISP able to deliver an ESPN360 compatible IP or  
> cached
> data :-)
> 5. Enable MYISP TV  (Note: charge for access to your own Video  
> services that
> you self host/offer, so its availble accross other ISPs also from  
> this site,
> and so non-discriminary)
>
> Disclaimer: This site/fee allows access to reach the above video  
> provider
> sites. Access to enter and obtain the site's offered services and  
> content is
> not covered by this fee. Additional subscription fees may be required
> directly by the Video content provider. View their sites for their  
> fees,
> terms and conditions..
>
> So.
> Comcast my video access provider charges consumers $9.95 for HBO and  
> $9.95
> more for Showtime alacart, why cant I as the Internet Access  
> provider charge
> my subs the same?
>
> The problem is NOT charging for content. The problem is not allowing  
> some to
> buy access to content. The problem is not allowing all to carry or  
> resell
> the content.
>
> The facts are...Verizon and Comcasts wont charge for content, if we  
> are
> allowed to carry content and we choose to not charge for it. If we  
> charge
> more than the market will bear, consumers will leave us, and that  
> keeps us
> honeset and fair. Its already established that Consumers have been  
> willing
> to pay for content.
>
> If the video content providers complain, tell them you'll give them a
> revenue share if they send you a caching server for you to host::-)
>
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>
>
>> Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
>
> I don't think there are any laws on it at this point.  It's like
> ESPN's service - the default policy is to block but there is an accept
> policy for those that pay.
>
>> If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???
>
> Lots of overhead, lots of DNS queries.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Robert Kim Wireless Internet Advisor
>  wrote:
>> WAIT...
>>
>> Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
>> If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Paul Gerstenberger  
>> 
>> wrote:
>>> Our TOS is written in such that we can regulate them if they are
>>> interfering with other customers. Our problem isn't upstream  
>>> bandwidth,
>>> but the wireless network (in places). We need to use Trango 900s in
>>> places, hard to educate people that their using netflix ruins the
>>> internet for X number of other customers on that AP... when many  
>>> other
>>> customers on the network can use netfix with no problems.
>>>
>>> We do not have an enforced overage policy, but with the increased
>>> accounting with our PPPoE changeover, we will be able to enforce  
>>> soon.
>>> I'm not looking forward to those phone calls, but it must be done...
>>>
>>> -Paul
>>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David E. Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:47, Kurt Fankhauser 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP’s just for the cu 
>>>> stomers
>

Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Jeromie Reeves]

Why not bandwidth shape them down to something reasonable? I find
1.1~1.2mbit for netflix and it looks fine. they will each 5mbit if you
let it. This keeps things pretty manageable here.b

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Tom DeReggi  wrote:
> OK, so should we be doing DNS redirecting.
>
> Redirect "hulu.com" to  "allowvideo.com" for $9.95 Shopping Cart item.
>
> Alacart content?
>
> Its no different than Microsoft Windows XP, being allowed to bundle
> Iexplorer and MSN with WindowsOS, as long as they included signup links for
> downloading and subscribing to NetScape and one ro two other Big Internet
> Providers.
>
> As long as its not discriminatory Make sure to include an Allow Item for
> EVERY Video Provider you can think of Example
>
> Welcome to Allow Video.com Shopping Cart.
> 1. Enable Hulu $9.95
> 2. Enable NetFlix $9.95
> 3. Enable GoogleTV $9.95
> 4. Enable ESPN360 $9.95  (Note... would redirect to third party ISP
> partnering with your ISP able to deliver an ESPN360 compatible IP or cached
> data :-)
> 5. Enable MYISP TV  (Note: charge for access to your own Video services that
> you self host/offer, so its availble accross other ISPs also from this site,
> and so non-discriminary)
>
> Disclaimer: This site/fee allows access to reach the above video provider
> sites. Access to enter and obtain the site's offered services and content is
> not covered by this fee. Additional subscription fees may be required
> directly by the Video content provider. View their sites for their fees,
> terms and conditions..
>
> So.
> Comcast my video access provider charges consumers $9.95 for HBO and $9.95
> more for Showtime alacart, why cant I as the Internet Access provider charge
> my subs the same?
>
> The problem is NOT charging for content. The problem is not allowing some to
> buy access to content. The problem is not allowing all to carry or resell
> the content.
>
> The facts are...Verizon and Comcasts wont charge for content, if we are
> allowed to carry content and we choose to not charge for it. If we charge
> more than the market will bear, consumers will leave us, and that keeps us
> honeset and fair. Its already established that Consumers have been willing
> to pay for content.
>
>  If the video content providers complain, tell them you'll give them a
> revenue share if they send you a caching server for you to host::-)
>
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>
>
>>Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
>
> I don't think there are any laws on it at this point.  It's like
> ESPN's service - the default policy is to block but there is an accept
> policy for those that pay.
>
>>If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???
>
> Lots of overhead, lots of DNS queries.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Robert Kim Wireless Internet Advisor
>  wrote:
>> WAIT...
>>
>> Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
>> If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Paul Gerstenberger 
>> wrote:
>>> Our TOS is written in such that we can regulate them if they are
>>> interfering with other customers. Our problem isn't upstream bandwidth,
>>> but the wireless network (in places). We need to use Trango 900s in
>>> places, hard to educate people that their using netflix ruins the
>>> internet for X number of other customers on that AP... when many other
>>> customers on the network can use netfix with no problems.
>>>
>>> We do not have an enforced overage policy, but with the increased
>>> accounting with our PPPoE changeover, we will be able to enforce soon.
>>> I'm not looking forward to those phone calls, but it must be done...
>>>
>>> -Paul
>>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David E. Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:47, Kurt Fankhauser 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP’s just for the customers
>>>> that are abusing the service.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you mean that they're abusing your service, you'll have to clarify

Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Tom DeReggi]

OK, so should we be doing DNS redirecting.

Redirect "hulu.com" to  "allowvideo.com" for $9.95 Shopping Cart item.

Alacart content?

Its no different than Microsoft Windows XP, being allowed to bundle 
Iexplorer and MSN with WindowsOS, as long as they included signup links for 
downloading and subscribing to NetScape and one ro two other Big Internet 
Providers.

As long as its not discriminatory Make sure to include an Allow Item for 
EVERY Video Provider you can think of Example

Welcome to Allow Video.com Shopping Cart.
1. Enable Hulu $9.95
2. Enable NetFlix $9.95
3. Enable GoogleTV $9.95
4. Enable ESPN360 $9.95  (Note... would redirect to third party ISP 
partnering with your ISP able to deliver an ESPN360 compatible IP or cached 
data :-)
5. Enable MYISP TV  (Note: charge for access to your own Video services that 
you self host/offer, so its availble accross other ISPs also from this site, 
and so non-discriminary)

Disclaimer: This site/fee allows access to reach the above video provider 
sites. Access to enter and obtain the site's offered services and content is 
not covered by this fee. Additional subscription fees may be required 
directly by the Video content provider. View their sites for their fees, 
terms and conditions..

So.
Comcast my video access provider charges consumers $9.95 for HBO and $9.95 
more for Showtime alacart, why cant I as the Internet Access provider charge 
my subs the same?

The problem is NOT charging for content. The problem is not allowing some to 
buy access to content. The problem is not allowing all to carry or resell 
the content.

The facts are...Verizon and Comcasts wont charge for content, if we are 
allowed to carry content and we choose to not charge for it. If we charge 
more than the market will bear, consumers will leave us, and that keeps us 
honeset and fair. Its already established that Consumers have been willing 
to pay for content.

 If the video content providers complain, tell them you'll give them a 
revenue share if they send you a caching server for you to host::-)


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's


>Is it even legal to block IP addresses???

I don't think there are any laws on it at this point.  It's like
ESPN's service - the default policy is to block but there is an accept
policy for those that pay.

>If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???

Lots of overhead, lots of DNS queries.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Robert Kim Wireless Internet Advisor
 wrote:
> WAIT...
>
> Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
> If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Paul Gerstenberger  
> wrote:
>> Our TOS is written in such that we can regulate them if they are 
>> interfering with other customers. Our problem isn't upstream bandwidth, 
>> but the wireless network (in places). We need to use Trango 900s in 
>> places, hard to educate people that their using netflix ruins the 
>> internet for X number of other customers on that AP... when many other 
>> customers on the network can use netfix with no problems.
>>
>> We do not have an enforced overage policy, but with the increased 
>> accounting with our PPPoE changeover, we will be able to enforce soon. 
>> I'm not looking forward to those phone calls, but it must be done...
>>
>> -Paul
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David E. Smith wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:47, Kurt Fankhauser  
>>> wrote:
>>> Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP’s just for the customers 
>>> that are abusing the service.
>>>
>>>
>>> If you mean that they're abusing your service, you'll have to clarify 
>>> what that means - the customer pays for bits to be delivered, and you're 
>>> delivering them. If you sell an "unlimited" service, them's the breaks. 
>>> If you bill by usage, just send them their next bill showing all the 
>>> overages they incurred, and that probably will be an effective deterrent 
>>> all by itself. :)
>>>
>>> David Smith
>>> MVN.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup

Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Paul Gerstenberger]

When I googled the issue some months back, I saw a post about blocking the IP 
for the netflix DRM server. That would resolve most the issues by preventing 
the DRM authentication, and as a result, the movie from streaming. But I 
couldn't get it didn't work reliably. Maybe time to revisit that approach.

I don't want to block the netflix website of course, I just want people to get 
their movies via DVD the way they used to! And I only really want to block 
streaming on the segments of the network that simply can't support it.

-Paul

On Aug 31, 2010, at 11:26 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

> Emailed 2 of the customers that were doing this. The one called back real 
> nice and apologized. Said their kid was letting the Netflix on the Nintendo 
> WII run while they were outside riding their bike! They said they will stop 
> it. 2nd customer never got back with me, their service has now been rate 
> limited to 256k. I anticipate a phone call shortly.
>  
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
>  
>  
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jeremy Parr
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 8:46 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>  
> On 30 August 2010 12:07, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
> Whats the IP’s to block so my customers can’t use Netflix and Hulu.
> 
> So you are no longer going to be an Internet provider, and instead just be a 
> Hotmail and CNN.com provider?
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Emailed 2 of the customers that were doing this. The one called back real
nice and apologized. Said their kid was letting the Netflix on the Nintendo
WII run while they were outside riding their bike! They said they will stop
it. 2nd customer never got back with me, their service has now been rate
limited to 256k. I anticipate a phone call shortly.

 

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

 

 

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeremy Parr
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 8:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

 

On 30 August 2010 12:07, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

Whats the IP's to block so my customers can't use Netflix and Hulu.


So you are no longer going to be an Internet provider, and instead just be a
Hotmail and CNN.com provider? 




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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Fred Goldstein]

At 8/31/2010 01:51 PM, Robert Kim wrote:
>WAIT...
>
>Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
>If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???

Thankfully, there is no "net neutrality" rule preventing this.

ISPs always block IP addresses.  Spammers' address blocks, and ISPs 
who tolerate spammers, and ISPs who tolerate ISPs who tolerate 
spammers, are routinely blocked.  As others might be.  Shoot first, 
ask questions later -- this is the Mutually Assured Destruction rule 
that keeps the Internet from collapsing.  And which the neuts have no 
klew about.

This is one reason why ISPs are not common carriers.  Providing 
"information service" (legal term in the US) means that you are not 
carrying stuff blindly, though you don't have full editorial control.

So yes, a web-browsing and email only service is perfectly 
legal.  Verizon Wireless sells just such a plan, in fact; it's 
basically mandatory with Blackberries.  "Full" (but not quite 
neutral) Internet access, as used with Droids, costs more.


>On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Paul Gerstenberger  wrote:
> > Our TOS is written in such that we can regulate them if they are 
> interfering with other customers. Our problem isn't upstream 
> bandwidth, but the wireless network (in places). We need to use 
> Trango 900s in places, hard to educate people that their using 
> netflix ruins the internet for X number of other customers on that 
> AP... when many other customers on the network can use netfix with no 
> problems.
> >
> > We do not have an enforced overage policy, but with the increased 
> accounting with our PPPoE changeover, we will be able to enforce 
> soon. I'm not looking forward to those phone calls, but it must be done...
> >
> > -Paul
> >
> > On Aug 30, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David E. Smith wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:47, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
> >> Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP's just for the 
> customers that are abusing the service.
> >>
> >>
> >> If you mean that they're abusing your service, you'll have to 
> clarify what that means - the customer pays for bits to be 
> delivered, and you're delivering them. If you sell an "unlimited" 
> service, them's the breaks. If you bill by usage, just send them 
> their next bill showing all the overages they incurred, and that 
> probably will be an effective deterrent all by itself. :)
> >>
> >> David Smith
> >> MVN.net
> >>

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 




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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[David E. Smith]

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:51, Robert Kim Wireless Internet Advisor <
evdo.hs...@gmail.com> wrote:

> WAIT...
>
> Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
>

Your network, your rules. Legally, you can probably block whatever you want.
Doing so without informing your users (customers, for ISPs) is ethically
very iffy, but legally it's probably just fine. (Not a lawyer, et cetera)

It's probably a very bad idea, but that's another discussion. :)

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Josh Luthman]

>Is it even legal to block IP addresses???

I don't think there are any laws on it at this point.  It's like
ESPN's service - the default policy is to block but there is an accept
policy for those that pay.

>If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???

Lots of overhead, lots of DNS queries.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Robert Kim Wireless Internet Advisor
 wrote:
> WAIT...
>
> Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
> If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Paul Gerstenberger  wrote:
>> Our TOS is written in such that we can regulate them if they are interfering 
>> with other customers. Our problem isn't upstream bandwidth, but the wireless 
>> network (in places). We need to use Trango 900s in places, hard to educate 
>> people that their using netflix ruins the internet for X number of other 
>> customers on that AP... when many other customers on the network can use 
>> netfix with no problems.
>>
>> We do not have an enforced overage policy, but with the increased accounting 
>> with our PPPoE changeover, we will be able to enforce soon. I'm not looking 
>> forward to those phone calls, but it must be done...
>>
>> -Paul
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David E. Smith wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:47, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>>> Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP’s just for the customers that 
>>> are abusing the service.
>>>
>>>
>>> If you mean that they're abusing your service, you'll have to clarify what 
>>> that means - the customer pays for bits to be delivered, and you're 
>>> delivering them. If you sell an "unlimited" service, them's the breaks. If 
>>> you bill by usage, just send them their next bill showing all the overages 
>>> they incurred, and that probably will be an effective deterrent all by 
>>> itself. :)
>>>
>>> David Smith
>>> MVN.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>
>
>
> --
> Robert Q Kim
> 2611 S Coast Highway
> San Diego, CA 92007
> 310 598 1606
>
> My Latest Blog Posts:
> http://sparkah.com/2010/07/29/experienced-iphone-app-developer-los-angeles-how-to-tell-if-youre-going-to-get-burnt/
> http://sparkah.com/2010/08/25/facebook-marketing-strategies-from-nyc-and-los-angeles-most-devious-minds-2/
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Robert Kim Wireless Internet Advisor]

WAIT...

Is it even legal to block IP addresses???
If it is.. why dont you just block the whole domain alias???


On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Paul Gerstenberger  wrote:
> Our TOS is written in such that we can regulate them if they are interfering 
> with other customers. Our problem isn't upstream bandwidth, but the wireless 
> network (in places). We need to use Trango 900s in places, hard to educate 
> people that their using netflix ruins the internet for X number of other 
> customers on that AP... when many other customers on the network can use 
> netfix with no problems.
>
> We do not have an enforced overage policy, but with the increased accounting 
> with our PPPoE changeover, we will be able to enforce soon. I'm not looking 
> forward to those phone calls, but it must be done...
>
> -Paul
>
> On Aug 30, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David E. Smith wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:47, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>> Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP’s just for the customers that 
>> are abusing the service.
>>
>>
>> If you mean that they're abusing your service, you'll have to clarify what 
>> that means - the customer pays for bits to be delivered, and you're 
>> delivering them. If you sell an "unlimited" service, them's the breaks. If 
>> you bill by usage, just send them their next bill showing all the overages 
>> they incurred, and that probably will be an effective deterrent all by 
>> itself. :)
>>
>> David Smith
>> MVN.net
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
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-- 
Robert Q Kim
2611 S Coast Highway
San Diego, CA 92007
310 598 1606

My Latest Blog Posts:
http://sparkah.com/2010/07/29/experienced-iphone-app-developer-los-angeles-how-to-tell-if-youre-going-to-get-burnt/
http://sparkah.com/2010/08/25/facebook-marketing-strategies-from-nyc-and-los-angeles-most-devious-minds-2/



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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Paul Gerstenberger]

Our TOS is written in such that we can regulate them if they are interfering 
with other customers. Our problem isn't upstream bandwidth, but the wireless 
network (in places). We need to use Trango 900s in places, hard to educate 
people that their using netflix ruins the internet for X number of other 
customers on that AP... when many other customers on the network can use netfix 
with no problems.

We do not have an enforced overage policy, but with the increased accounting 
with our PPPoE changeover, we will be able to enforce soon. I'm not looking 
forward to those phone calls, but it must be done...

-Paul

On Aug 30, 2010, at 9:51 AM, David E. Smith wrote:

> 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:47, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
> Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP’s just for the customers that 
> are abusing the service.
> 
> 
> If you mean that they're abusing your service, you'll have to clarify what 
> that means - the customer pays for bits to be delivered, and you're 
> delivering them. If you sell an "unlimited" service, them's the breaks. If 
> you bill by usage, just send them their next bill showing all the overages 
> they incurred, and that probably will be an effective deterrent all by 
> itself. :) 
> 
> David Smith
> MVN.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Tom DeReggi]

Its also relevent to mention that there are multiple Akamai Server configs. 
A basic server config only stores some of the Internet content in its cache. 
Much larger cache servers are needed, for more effective caching.
What volume is needed to get equivlent cache performance as Comcast Verizon?

Also, hosting their servers is not necessarilyl free. For example, the most 
logicial place to put it might be at one's NOC. That NOC might reside at a 
Colo. At $50 per U of space, that is a residual cost that you will pay.
And how many Us are each of Akamai's 3 servers in the base configuration? 
Note with 100mb for $150/month in a colo, paying teh reoccuring rack fees 
would be more expensive than buying an extra 100mb of bandwidth, thus I'd 
argue even for the ISP there is a minimum usage capacity before it would be 
cost beneficial the the ISP as well, not just Akamai.

What some ISPs are doing is working in cooperation to put in a single Akamai 
server, and then havingthe partner ISPs peer with the ISP that homes the 
Akamai server, and use their aggregate bandwidth to qualify.

Where the caching is most beneficial would be caching data for server s 
located on the opposite coast. For example, bypassing 70ms latency required 
to get from East to West Coast.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's


>  Is this just to have their servers on your network or to BGP peer with
> them?
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> On 8/31/2010 9:56 AM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
>> Emailed Akamai last night. Got a response back today saying we're pulling 
>> an average of 19mbps from them, and do not meet the minimum requirement 
>> of 75mbps required to qualify for the Accelerated Network Partner 
>> program.
>>
>> --
>> Blake Covarrubias
>>
>> On Aug 31, 2010, at 6:27 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>
>>> I really don't know...we haven't tracked it.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Mike Hammett 
>>> wrote:
>>>   How much are you passing to them?
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/31/2010 7:18 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>>> We have asked, and were told that they don't see enough traffic coming
>>>> from our ASN.  Is there someone else we can contact?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Chuck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Glenn Kelley 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I have helped a wisp get this with 700 customers and about 30mbps
>>>>> I have helped another get one with about 500 customers and about 
>>>>> 50mbps
>>>>> So - just ask
>>>>> Truth is - they want to put these in - they crave new locations like 
>>>>> you
>>>>> would not believe.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 00+Mbps and we don't have "thousands" of customers...but we do have 
>>>>> 1500+.
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>
>>>>> _
>>>>> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
>>>>> Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
>>>>> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>>>>>
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Blake Covarrubias]

To place their caching servers on our network.

http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_program.html

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Aug 31, 2010, at 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

>  Is this just to have their servers on your network or to BGP peer with 
> them?
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/31/2010 9:56 AM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
>> Emailed Akamai last night. Got a response back today saying we're pulling an 
>> average of 19mbps from them, and do not meet the minimum requirement of 
>> 75mbps required to qualify for the Accelerated Network Partner program.
>> 
>> --
>> Blake Covarrubias
>> 
>> On Aug 31, 2010, at 6:27 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>> 
>>> I really don't know...we haven't tracked it.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Chuck
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Mike Hammett  
>>> wrote:
>>>  How much are you passing to them?
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 8/31/2010 7:18 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
 We have asked, and were told that they don't see enough traffic coming
 from our ASN.  Is there someone else we can contact?
 
 Regards,
 
 Chuck
 
 
 
 On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Glenn Kelley   wrote:
> I have helped a wisp get this with 700 customers and about 30mbps
> I have helped another get one with about 500 customers and about 50mbps
> So - just ask
> Truth is - they want to put these in - they crave new locations like you
> would not believe.
> 
> On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> 
> 00+Mbps and we don't have "thousands" of customers...but we do have 1500+.
> Regards,
> Chuck
> 
> _
> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
>Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Arc

Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Mike Hammett]

  Is this just to have their servers on your network or to BGP peer with 
them?

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 8/31/2010 9:56 AM, Blake Covarrubias wrote:
> Emailed Akamai last night. Got a response back today saying we're pulling an 
> average of 19mbps from them, and do not meet the minimum requirement of 
> 75mbps required to qualify for the Accelerated Network Partner program.
>
> --
> Blake Covarrubias
>
> On Aug 31, 2010, at 6:27 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>
>> I really don't know...we haven't tracked it.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Mike Hammett  
>> wrote:
>>   How much are you passing to them?
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/31/2010 7:18 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>> We have asked, and were told that they don't see enough traffic coming
>>> from our ASN.  Is there someone else we can contact?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Glenn Kelley   wrote:
 I have helped a wisp get this with 700 customers and about 30mbps
 I have helped another get one with about 500 customers and about 50mbps
 So - just ask
 Truth is - they want to put these in - they crave new locations like you
 would not believe.

 On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:

 00+Mbps and we don't have "thousands" of customers...but we do have 1500+.
 Regards,
 Chuck

 _
 Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
 Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
 Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.



 
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Nick Olsen]

Emailed them this morning, I figure we will get a similar response.

Nick Olsen
Network Operations
(321) 205-1100 x106



From: "Blake Covarrubias" 
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 10:57 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Emailed Akamai last night. Got a response back today saying we're pulling 
an average of 19mbps from them, and do not meet the minimum requirement of 
75mbps required to qualify for the Accelerated Network Partner program.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Aug 31, 2010, at 6:27 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:

> I really don't know...we haven't tracked it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Mike Hammett  
wrote:
>  How much are you passing to them?
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/31/2010 7:18 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> > We have asked, and were told that they don't see enough traffic coming
> > from our ASN.  Is there someone else we can contact?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Glenn Kelley  
wrote:
> >> I have helped a wisp get this with 700 customers and about 30mbps
> >> I have helped another get one with about 500 customers and about 
50mbps
> >> So - just ask
> >> Truth is - they want to put these in - they crave new locations like 
you
> >> would not believe.
> >>
> >> On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> >>
> >> 00+Mbps and we don't have "thousands" of customers...but we do have 
1500+.
> >> Regards,
> >> Chuck
> >>
> >> 

_
> >> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
> >>Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
> >> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 


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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Blake Covarrubias]

Emailed Akamai last night. Got a response back today saying we're pulling an 
average of 19mbps from them, and do not meet the minimum requirement of 75mbps 
required to qualify for the Accelerated Network Partner program.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Aug 31, 2010, at 6:27 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:

> I really don't know...we haven't tracked it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Mike Hammett  
> wrote:
>  How much are you passing to them?
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/31/2010 7:18 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> > We have asked, and were told that they don't see enough traffic coming
> > from our ASN.  Is there someone else we can contact?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Glenn Kelley  wrote:
> >> I have helped a wisp get this with 700 customers and about 30mbps
> >> I have helped another get one with about 500 customers and about 50mbps
> >> So - just ask
> >> Truth is - they want to put these in - they crave new locations like you
> >> would not believe.
> >>
> >> On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> >>
> >> 00+Mbps and we don't have "thousands" of customers...but we do have 1500+.
> >> Regards,
> >> Chuck
> >>
> >> _
> >> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
> >>Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
> >> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >> 
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> >>
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> >>
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Chuck Hogg]

I really don't know...we haven't tracked it.

Regards,

Chuck


On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

>  How much are you passing to them?
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> On 8/31/2010 7:18 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> > We have asked, and were told that they don't see enough traffic coming
> > from our ASN.  Is there someone else we can contact?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Glenn Kelley
>  wrote:
> >> I have helped a wisp get this with 700 customers and about 30mbps
> >> I have helped another get one with about 500 customers and about 50mbps
> >> So - just ask
> >> Truth is - they want to put these in - they crave new locations like you
> >> would not believe.
> >>
> >> On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> >>
> >> 00+Mbps and we don't have "thousands" of customers...but we do have
> 1500+.
> >> Regards,
> >> Chuck
> >>
> >>
> _
> >> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
> >>Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
> >> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Jeremy Parr]

On 30 August 2010 12:07, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

>  Whats the IP’s to block so my customers can’t use Netflix and Hulu.
>

So you are no longer going to be an Internet provider, and instead just be a
Hotmail and CNN.com provider?



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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Mike Hammett]

  How much are you passing to them?

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 8/31/2010 7:18 AM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> We have asked, and were told that they don't see enough traffic coming
> from our ASN.  Is there someone else we can contact?
>
> Regards,
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Glenn Kelley  wrote:
>> I have helped a wisp get this with 700 customers and about 30mbps
>> I have helped another get one with about 500 customers and about 50mbps
>> So - just ask
>> Truth is - they want to put these in - they crave new locations like you
>> would not believe.
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>>
>> 00+Mbps and we don't have "thousands" of customers...but we do have 1500+.
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> _
>> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
>>Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
>> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Chuck Hogg]

We have asked, and were told that they don't see enough traffic coming
from our ASN.  Is there someone else we can contact?

Regards,

Chuck



On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Glenn Kelley  wrote:
> I have helped a wisp get this with 700 customers and about 30mbps
> I have helped another get one with about 500 customers and about 50mbps
> So - just ask
> Truth is - they want to put these in - they crave new locations like you
> would not believe.
>
> On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
>
> 00+Mbps and we don't have "thousands" of customers...but we do have 1500+.
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> _
> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
>   Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Chuck Hogg]

I've got 300+Mbps and we don't have "thousands" of customers...but we do
have 1500+.

Regards,

Chuck


On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Jon Auer  wrote:

> On Aug 30, 2010 2:53 PM, "Blake Covarrubias"  wrote:
>
> I contacted Akamai a while back about this program, and yes I believe they
> also told me 75mbps was the magic number.
>
> --
> Blake Covarrubias
>
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2010, at 12:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:
>
> > No clue, Just going f...
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Michael Baird]

 Well, more like 10. The inquiry cost nothing, they will look it up and 
tell you if they see enough traffic from your AS to justify it or not.


Regards
Michael Baird
On Aug 30, 2010 2:53 PM, "Blake Covarrubias" > wrote:


I contacted Akamai a while back about this program, and yes I believe 
they also told me 75mbps was the magic number.


--
Blake Covarrubias



On Aug 30, 2010, at 12:43, "Nick Olsen" > wrote:


> No clue, Just going f...





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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Glenn Kelley]

I have helped a wisp get this with 700 customers and about 30mbps

I have helped another get one with about 500 customers and about 50mbps

So - just ask 

Truth is - they want to put these in - they crave new locations like you would 
not believe. 


On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:

> 00+Mbps and we don't have "thousands" of customers...but we do have 1500+.  
> 
> Regards,
> Chuck

_
Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Glenn Kelley]

they will give it to you with much less than 75mbps 

best just to ask them :-)


On Aug 30, 2010, at 8:07 PM, Jon Auer wrote:

> 
>> On Aug 30, 2010 2:53 PM, "Blake Covarrubias"  wrote:
>> 
>> I contacted Akamai a while back about this program, and yes I believe they 
>> also told me 75mbps was the magic number.
>> 
>> --
>> Blake Covarrubias
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 30, 2010, at 12:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:
>> 
>> > No clue, Just going f...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com 
  Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.




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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Jon Auer]

On Aug 30, 2010 2:53 PM, "Blake Covarrubias"  wrote:

I contacted Akamai a while back about this program, and yes I believe they
also told me 75mbps was the magic number.

--
Blake Covarrubias



On Aug 30, 2010, at 12:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:

> No clue, Just going f...




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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Blake Covarrubias]

I contacted Akamai a while back about this program, and yes I believe they also 
told me 75mbps was the magic number.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Aug 30, 2010, at 12:43, "Nick Olsen"  wrote:

> No clue, Just going from what I vaguely recall someone saying...
> Like I said, I think I heard it here, Might have been on NANOG.
> 
> Nick Olsen
> Network Operations
> (321) 205-1100 x106
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:52 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
> 
> Does that 75 megabits also apply when you are looking to connect via a public 
> peering point?  Some CDN type networks waive or minimize those requirements 
> if you connect via a public exchange.
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> 
> On 8/30/2010 12:34 PM, Nick Olsen wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure where I heard it (Here I think..) but the magic number is something 
>> like 75Mb/s sustained. So unless you have a few thousand customers, Your 
>> most likely quite below that level.
>> Blocking a CDN could be a big problem. You never know how much of the worlds 
>> content is CDN based till you do this. Blocking any of the big ones (Akamai, 
>> Limelight.. Bitgravity (to a lesser extent)) will break more things then you 
>> can even imagine. If someone is abusing your service, I would rate limit 
>> them.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To put it in perspective. We have two upstreams, One is prepended, making 
>> the something like 80% of the internet prefer the un-prepended transit. 
>> However, the bandwidth was almost level across the board, This had me 
>> stumped. Turns out every CDN I could find liked the prepended transit 
>> better. So even though 20% of the internet liked that transit, that 20% 
>> happened to include some of the most bandwidth intensive things around....
>> 
>> Nick Olsen
>> Network Operations
>> (321) 205-1100 x106
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Justin Wilson" 
>> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 1:22 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>> 
>>AS # is for BGP advertisements. Akamai has a program for ISPs who use a 
>> good deal of bandwidth to their network. 
>> http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_program.html
>> 
>> Basically you give them your AS (you have to be multi homed) and they 
>> see if you meet the minimum bandwidth to their network.  Your upstream(s) 
>> might already be accelerated so you should make some inquiries.
>> 
>> Justin
>> -- 
>> Justin Wilson 
>> http://www.mtin.net/blog – xISP News
>> http://www.twitter.com/j2sw – Follow me on Twitter
>> Wisp Consulting – Tower Climbing – Network Support
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Kurt Fankhauser 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:15:45 -0400
>> To: 'WISPA General List' 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>> 
>> Interesting, whats an AS# ?
>>  
>> 
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> WAVELINC
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> 419-562-6405
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Michael Baird
>> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:59 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>> 
>> Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are using any amount of 
>> bandwidth they will colocate in your facilities (for free), so you can serve 
>> much of the Akamai content locally.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Michael Baird
>> 
>> 
>> Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP’s just for the customers that 
>> are abusing the service.
>>  
>> 
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> WAVELINC
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> 419-562-6405
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>> Behalf Of David E. Smith
>> Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:27 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>> 
>> Whats the IP’s to block so my customers can’t use Netflix and Hulu.
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses Akamai, and Hulu uses 
>> a mixture of Akamai and Limelight for &quo

Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Nick Olsen]

No clue, Just going from what I vaguely recall someone saying...
Like I said, I think I heard it here, Might have been on NANOG.

Nick Olsen
Network Operations
(321) 205-1100 x106



From: "Mike Hammett" 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:52 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Does that 75 megabits also apply when you are looking to connect via
a public peering point?  Some CDN type networks waive or minimize
those requirements if you connect via a public exchange.
- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com



On 8/30/2010 12:34 PM, Nick Olsen wrote:
Not sure where I heard it (Here I think..) but the magic
number is something like 75Mb/s sustained. So unless you have a
few thousand customers, Your most likely quite below that level.
Blocking a CDN could be a big problem. You never know how much
of the worlds content is CDN based till you do this. Blocking
any of the big ones (Akamai, Limelight.. Bitgravity (to a lesser
extent)) will break more things then you can even imagine. If
someone is abusing your service, I would rate limit them.

To put it in perspective. We have two upstreams, One is
prepended, making the something like 80% of the internet prefer
the un-prepended transit. However, the bandwidth was almost
level across the board, This had me stumped. Turns out every CDN
I could find liked the prepended transit better. So even though
20% of the internet liked that transit, that 20% happened to
include some of the most bandwidth intensive things around

Nick Olsen
Network Operations
(321) 205-1100 x106



  From:
"Justin Wilson" 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 1:22 PM
To: "WISPA General List"

Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

AS # is for BGP advertisements.
Akamai has a program for ISPs who use a good deal of
bandwidth to their network.
http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_program.html

Basically you give them your AS (you have to be multi
homed) and they see if you meet the minimum bandwidth to
their network.  Your upstream(s) might already be
accelerated so you should make some inquiries.

Justin
--
Justin Wilson 
http://www.mtin.net/blog
- xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw
- Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support



From: Kurt
Fankhauser 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:15:45 -0400
To: 'WISPA General List' 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Interesting, whats an
AS# ?


Kurt
Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405






  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:59 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are
using any amount of bandwidth they will colocate in your
facilities (for free), so you can serve much of the Akamai
content locally.

Regards
Michael Baird

Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight
IP's just for the customers that are abusing the service.


Kurt
Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405






  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:27 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's



On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

Whats
the IP's to block so my customers can't use Netflix and
Hulu.


It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses
Akamai, and Hulu uses a mixture of Akamai and Limelight for
"content delivery" services. These are the same
content-delivery services used by just about everyone that
has lots of content to distribute to lots of people (I'm
pretty sure Microsoft uses Akamai for Windows Update, for
instance) - Akamai claims they're responsible for 15 to 20
percent of all Web traffic on any given day, so blocking
Akamai wholesale would probably be the worst idea.

David Smith

MVN.net





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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Mike Hammett]

 Does that 75 megabits also apply when you are looking to connect via a 
public peering point?  Some CDN type networks waive or minimize those 
requirements if you connect via a public exchange.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 8/30/2010 12:34 PM, Nick Olsen wrote:
Not sure where I heard it (Here I think..) but the magic number is 
something like 75Mb/s sustained. So unless you have a few thousand 
customers, Your most likely quite below that level.
Blocking a CDN could be a big problem. You never know how much of the 
worlds content is CDN based till you do this. Blocking any of the big 
ones (Akamai, Limelight.. Bitgravity (to a lesser extent)) will break 
more things then you can even imagine. If someone is abusing your 
service, I would rate limit them.




To put it in perspective. We have two upstreams, One is prepended, 
making the something like 80% of the internet prefer the un-prepended 
transit. However, the bandwidth was almost level across the board, 
This had me stumped. Turns out every CDN I could find liked the 
prepended transit better. So even though 20% of the internet liked 
that transit, that 20% happened to include some of the most bandwidth 
intensive things around


Nick Olsen
Network Operations
(321) 205-1100 x106




*From*: "Justin Wilson" 
*Sent*: Monday, August 30, 2010 1:22 PM
*To*: "WISPA General List" 
*Subject*: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

   AS # is for BGP advertisements. Akamai has a program for ISPs who 
use a good deal of bandwidth to their network.

http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_program.html

Basically you give them your AS (you have to be multi homed) and 
they see if you meet the minimum bandwidth to their network.  Your 
upstream(s) might already be accelerated so you should make some 
inquiries.


Justin
--
Justin Wilson 
http://www.mtin.net/blog -- xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw -- Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting -- Tower Climbing -- Network Support




*From: *Kurt Fankhauser 
*Reply-To: *WISPA General List 
*Date: *Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:15:45 -0400
*To: *'WISPA General List' 
*Subject: *Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Interesting, whats an AS# ?


Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405




*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Michael Baird

*Sent:* Monday, August 30, 2010 12:59 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are using any 
amount of bandwidth they will colocate in your facilities (for free), 
so you can serve much of the Akamai content locally.


Regards
Michael Baird


Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP's just for the customers 
that are abusing the service.



Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405




*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *David E. Smith

*Sent:* Monday, August 30, 2010 12:27 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's



On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

Whats the IP's to block so my customers can't use Netflix and Hulu.




It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses Akamai, and Hulu 
uses a mixture of Akamai and Limelight for "content delivery" 
services. These are the same content-delivery services used by just 
about everyone that has lots of content to distribute to lots of 
people (I'm pretty sure Microsoft uses Akamai for Windows Update, for 
instance) - Akamai claims they're responsible for 15 to 20 percent of 
all Web traffic on any given day, so blocking Akamai wholesale would 
probably be the worst idea.




David Smith

MVN.net







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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Nick Olsen]

Not sure where I heard it (Here I think..) but the magic number is something 
like 75Mb/s sustained. So unless you have a few thousand customers, Your most 
likely quite below that level.
Blocking a CDN could be a big problem. You never know how much of the worlds 
content is CDN based till you do this. Blocking any of the big ones (Akamai, 
Limelight.. Bitgravity (to a lesser extent)) will break more things then you 
can even imagine. If someone is abusing your service, I would rate limit them.

To put it in perspective. We have two upstreams, One is prepended, making the 
something like 80% of the internet prefer the un-prepended transit. However, 
the bandwidth was almost level across the board, This had me stumped. Turns out 
every CDN I could find liked the prepended transit better. So even though 20% 
of the internet liked that transit, that 20% happened to include some of the 
most bandwidth intensive things around

Nick Olsen
Network Operations
(321) 205-1100 x106



From: "Justin Wilson" 
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 1:22 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

AS # is for BGP advertisements. Akamai has a program for ISPs who use a 
good deal of bandwidth to their network.
http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_program.html

Basically you give them your AS (you have to be multi homed) and they see 
if you meet the minimum bandwidth to their network.  Your upstream(s) might 
already be accelerated so you should make some inquiries.

Justin
--
Justin Wilson 
http://www.mtin.net/blog - xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw - Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting - Tower Climbing - Network Support



From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:15:45 -0400
To: 'WISPA General List' 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Interesting, whats an AS# ?


Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405






From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Michael Baird
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:59 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are using any amount of 
bandwidth they will colocate in your facilities (for free), so you can serve 
much of the Akamai content locally.

Regards
Michael Baird

Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP's just for the customers that are 
abusing the service.


Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405






From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:27 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's



On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

Whats the IP's to block so my customers can't use Netflix and Hulu.


It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses Akamai, and Hulu uses a 
mixture of Akamai and Limelight for "content delivery" services. These are the 
same content-delivery services used by just about everyone that has lots of 
content to distribute to lots of people (I'm pretty sure Microsoft uses Akamai 
for Windows Update, for instance) - Akamai claims they're responsible for 15 to 
20 percent of all Web traffic on any given day, so blocking Akamai wholesale 
would probably be the worst idea.

David Smith

MVN.net





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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Mike Hammett]

 Not necessarily.  You can do BGP with provider assigned space as 
opposed to provider independent space.  You need BGP to properly utilize 
multiple providers.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 8/30/2010 12:15 PM, Mark Nash - Lists wrote:
You need it if you have your own IP space, for BGP.  If you don't 
"own" your OWN public IPs, then you don't have one.


- Original Message -
*From:* Kurt Fankhauser <mailto:k...@wavelinc.com>
*To:* 'WISPA General List' <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
*Sent:* Monday, August 30, 2010 10:15 AM
    *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Interesting, whats an AS# ?

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405



*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Michael Baird
*Sent:* Monday, August 30, 2010 12:59 PM
    *To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are using any
amount of bandwidth they will colocate in your facilities (for
free), so you can serve much of the Akamai content locally.

Regards
Michael Baird

Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP's just for the
customers that are abusing the service.

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405



*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *David E. Smith
*Sent:* Monday, August 30, 2010 12:27 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser mailto:k...@wavelinc.com>> wrote:

Whats the IP's to block so my customers can't use Netflix and Hulu.

It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses Akamai, and
Hulu uses a mixture of Akamai and Limelight for "content delivery"
services. These are the same content-delivery services used by
just about everyone that has lots of content to distribute to lots
of people (I'm pretty sure Microsoft uses Akamai for Windows
Update, for instance) - Akamai claims they're responsible for 15
to 20 percent of all Web traffic on any given day, so blocking
Akamai wholesale would probably be the worst idea.

David Smith

MVN.net

  

  

  

  





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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Mike Hammett]

 https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#five


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 8/30/2010 12:15 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


Interesting, whats an AS# ?

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405



*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Michael Baird

*Sent:* Monday, August 30, 2010 12:59 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are using any 
amount of bandwidth they will colocate in your facilities (for free), 
so you can serve much of the Akamai content locally.


Regards
Michael Baird

Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP's just for the customers 
that are abusing the service.


Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405



*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *David E. Smith

*Sent:* Monday, August 30, 2010 12:27 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser <mailto:k...@wavelinc.com>> wrote:


Whats the IP's to block so my customers can't use Netflix and Hulu.

It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses Akamai, and Hulu 
uses a mixture of Akamai and Limelight for "content delivery" 
services. These are the same content-delivery services used by just 
about everyone that has lots of content to distribute to lots of 
people (I'm pretty sure Microsoft uses Akamai for Windows Update, for 
instance) - Akamai claims they're responsible for 15 to 20 percent of 
all Web traffic on any given day, so blocking Akamai wholesale would 
probably be the worst idea.


David Smith

MVN.net

  

  
  
  


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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Mike Hammett]

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_system_(Internet) 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_system_%28Internet%29>



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 8/30/2010 12:15 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:


Interesting, whats an AS# ?

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405



*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Michael Baird

*Sent:* Monday, August 30, 2010 12:59 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are using any 
amount of bandwidth they will colocate in your facilities (for free), 
so you can serve much of the Akamai content locally.


Regards
Michael Baird

Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP's just for the customers 
that are abusing the service.


Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405



*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> 
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *David E. Smith

*Sent:* Monday, August 30, 2010 12:27 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser <mailto:k...@wavelinc.com>> wrote:


Whats the IP's to block so my customers can't use Netflix and Hulu.

It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses Akamai, and Hulu 
uses a mixture of Akamai and Limelight for "content delivery" 
services. These are the same content-delivery services used by just 
about everyone that has lots of content to distribute to lots of 
people (I'm pretty sure Microsoft uses Akamai for Windows Update, for 
instance) - Akamai claims they're responsible for 15 to 20 percent of 
all Web traffic on any given day, so blocking Akamai wholesale would 
probably be the worst idea.


David Smith

MVN.net

  

  
  
  


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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Justin Wilson]

AS # is for BGP advertisements. Akamai has a program for ISPs who use a
good deal of bandwidth to their network.
http://www.akamai.com/html/partners/network_program.html

Basically you give them your AS (you have to be multi homed) and they
see if you meet the minimum bandwidth to their network.  Your upstream(s)
might already be accelerated so you should make some inquiries.

Justin
-- 
Justin Wilson 
http://www.mtin.net/blog ­ xISP News
http://www.twitter.com/j2sw ­ Follow me on Twitter
Wisp Consulting ­ Tower Climbing ­ Network Support




From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:15:45 -0400
To: 'WISPA General List' 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

Interesting, whats an AS# ?
 

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
 
 


From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:59 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
 
Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are using any amount of
bandwidth they will colocate in your facilities (for free), so you can serve
much of the Akamai content locally.

Regards
Michael Baird


Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP¹s just for the customers that
are abusing the service.
 

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
 
 


From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:27 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's
 
 

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

Whats the IP¹s to block so my customers can¹t use Netflix and Hulu.
 

 

It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses Akamai, and Hulu uses
a mixture of Akamai and Limelight for "content delivery" services. These are
the same content-delivery services used by just about everyone that has lots
of content to distribute to lots of people (I'm pretty sure Microsoft uses
Akamai for Windows Update, for instance) - Akamai claims they're responsible
for 15 to 20 percent of all Web traffic on any given day, so blocking Akamai
wholesale would probably be the worst idea.

 

David Smith

MVN.net

 
 
 
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Mark Nash - Lists]

You need it if you have your own IP space, for BGP.  If you don't "own" your 
OWN public IPs, then you don't have one.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Kurt Fankhauser 
  To: 'WISPA General List' 
  Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 10:15 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's


  Interesting, whats an AS# ?

   

  Kurt Fankhauser

  WAVELINC

  P.O. Box 126

  Bucyrus, OH 44820

  419-562-6405

   

   


--

  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Michael Baird
  Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:59 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

   

  Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are using any amount of 
bandwidth they will colocate in your facilities (for free), so you can serve 
much of the Akamai content locally.

  Regards
  Michael Baird



  Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP's just for the customers that 
are abusing the service.

   

  Kurt Fankhauser

  WAVELINC

  P.O. Box 126

  Bucyrus, OH 44820

  419-562-6405

   

   


--

  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of David E. Smith
  Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:27 PM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

   

   

  On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

  Whats the IP's to block so my customers can't use Netflix and Hulu.

   

   

  It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses Akamai, and Hulu uses a 
mixture of Akamai and Limelight for "content delivery" services. These are the 
same content-delivery services used by just about everyone that has lots of 
content to distribute to lots of people (I'm pretty sure Microsoft uses Akamai 
for Windows Update, for instance) - Akamai claims they're responsible for 15 to 
20 percent of all Web traffic on any given day, so blocking Akamai wholesale 
would probably be the worst idea.

   

  David Smith

  MVN.net

   


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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Interesting, whats an AS# ?

 

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

 

 

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Baird
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:59 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

 

Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are using any amount of
bandwidth they will colocate in your facilities (for free), so you can serve
much of the Akamai content locally.

Regards
Michael Baird



Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP's just for the customers that
are abusing the service.

 

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

 

 

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:27 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

 

 

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

Whats the IP's to block so my customers can't use Netflix and Hulu.

 

 

It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses Akamai, and Hulu uses
a mixture of Akamai and Limelight for "content delivery" services. These are
the same content-delivery services used by just about everyone that has lots
of content to distribute to lots of people (I'm pretty sure Microsoft uses
Akamai for Windows Update, for instance) - Akamai claims they're responsible
for 15 to 20 percent of all Web traffic on any given day, so blocking Akamai
wholesale would probably be the worst idea.

 

David Smith

MVN.net

 

 
 
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Michael Baird]

Just contact Akamai, and give them your AS #, if you are using any 
amount of bandwidth they will colocate in your facilities (for free), so 
you can serve much of the Akamai content locally.


Regards
Michael Baird


Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP's just for the customers 
that are abusing the service.


Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405



*From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
*On Behalf Of *David E. Smith

*Sent:* Monday, August 30, 2010 12:27 PM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser <mailto:k...@wavelinc.com>> wrote:


Whats the IP's to block so my customers can't use Netflix and Hulu.

It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses Akamai, and Hulu 
uses a mixture of Akamai and Limelight for "content delivery" 
services. These are the same content-delivery services used by just 
about everyone that has lots of content to distribute to lots of 
people (I'm pretty sure Microsoft uses Akamai for Windows Update, for 
instance) - Akamai claims they're responsible for 15 to 20 percent of 
all Web traffic on any given day, so blocking Akamai wholesale would 
probably be the worst idea.


David Smith

MVN.net





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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[David E. Smith]

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:47, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

>  Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP’s just for the customers
> that are abusing the service.
>

If you mean that they're abusing your service, you'll have to clarify what
that means - the customer pays for bits to be delivered, and you're
delivering them. If you sell an "unlimited" service, them's the breaks. If
you bill by usage, just send them their next bill showing all the overages
they incurred, and that probably will be an effective deterrent all by
itself. :)

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Whats your thoughts on blocking limelight IP's just for the customers that
are abusing the service.

 

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

 

 

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 12:27 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

 

 

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

Whats the IP's to block so my customers can't use Netflix and Hulu.

 

 

It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses Akamai, and Hulu uses
a mixture of Akamai and Limelight for "content delivery" services. These are
the same content-delivery services used by just about everyone that has lots
of content to distribute to lots of people (I'm pretty sure Microsoft uses
Akamai for Windows Update, for instance) - Akamai claims they're responsible
for 15 to 20 percent of all Web traffic on any given day, so blocking Akamai
wholesale would probably be the worst idea.

 

David Smith

MVN.net

 




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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Butch Evans]

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 12:07 -0400, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: 
> Whats the IP’s to block so my customers can’t use Netflix 
> and Hulu.

Blocking netflix by IP will block a LOT more than just netflix because
their content is not coming from just their servers.  Hulu uses a
Macromedia Flash port (TCP port 1935) for content delivery.  

These things can be easily determined with a very quick packet capture.
FWIW, I posted a response to Tom DeReggi the other day with a few rules
that would "identify" Netflix (sort of).  Be careful with those rules,
as they will match much more than just Netflix streams. 

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[David E. Smith]

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:07, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

>  Whats the IP’s to block so my customers can’t use Netflix and Hulu.
>
>
>

It would be just about impossible to do. Netflix uses Akamai, and Hulu uses
a mixture of Akamai and Limelight for "content delivery" services. These are
the same content-delivery services used by just about everyone that has lots
of content to distribute to lots of people (I'm pretty sure Microsoft uses
Akamai for Windows Update, for instance) - Akamai claims they're responsible
for 15 to 20 percent of all Web traffic on any given day, so blocking Akamai
wholesale would probably be the worst idea.

David Smith
MVN.net



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[WISPA] netflix/hulu IP's

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Whats the IP's to block so my customers can't use Netflix and Hulu.

 

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

P.O. Box 126

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

 

 

 




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