Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[John Thomas]

Also HP had 100 VG AnyLAN that used 4 wires.

John


Jerry Richardson wrote:
> There was a technology that used all 4 pairs. It was a proprietary solution 
> that put Video on one set and data on the other. Broadxxx or something like 
> that.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:01 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be wrong...
>
> On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>   
>> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in addition
>> to certain quality measures.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Robert West" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>> 
>>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>>> Can
>>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
>>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
>>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
>>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
>>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>>> face.
>>>
>>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>>> the
>>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>>> was
>>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
>>> never saw them used though.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of RickG
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>>
>>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>>> references
>>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>>> Any examples?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
>>>>
>>>> -Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>>>>>> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>>>>>> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> virtually unused.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Forbes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.or

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike Hammett]

Speaking of DragonWave...  They have radios now that do more than 1 Gbit of 
throughput in a single direction.  Are they just doing multiple GigE ports 
or is a 10GigE interface available?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "3-dB Networks" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:07 PM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Yes... although be careful what surge suppressors you use :-)
>
> Dragonwave also uses GigE with PoE for instance on the Horizon Compact.
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:11 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
>> There's the confusion.  2 "standards".  One with 4 pair and one with 2
> pair.
>> Gotta love standards.
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-T
>
> The Motorola PTP600 has a GigE port and POE.  So will POE still work with
> GigE?
>
> Matt
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
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> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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> 



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike Hammett]

AFAIK, there is no standard for PoE on GigE, so each company does their own 
thing until a standard is made available.  I have heard one reference to it 
as power over datalines.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Matt" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:11 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

>> There's the confusion.  2 "standards".  One with 4 pair and one with 2 
>> pair.
>> Gotta love standards.
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-T
>
> The Motorola PTP600 has a GigE port and POE.  So will POE still work with 
> GigE?
>
> Matt
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[3-dB Networks]

Yes... although be careful what surge suppressors you use :-)

Dragonwave also uses GigE with PoE for instance on the Horizon Compact.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> There's the confusion.  2 "standards".  One with 4 pair and one with 2
pair.
> Gotta love standards.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-T

The Motorola PTP600 has a GigE port and POE.  So will POE still work with
GigE?

Matt




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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Matt]

> There's the confusion.  2 "standards".  One with 4 pair and one with 2 pair.
> Gotta love standards.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-T

The Motorola PTP600 has a GigE port and POE.  So will POE still work with GigE?

Matt



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Jerry Richardson]

Sent too quickly

they also have solutions that will do 100Mbps over POTS...


I will say that I was extremely impressed by the Moto/Tut presentation.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

If you really get stuck, the Netgear PowerLine thingy's actually work.

Otherwise NetSys Ethernet repeaters will do 25Mbps.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of 3-dB Networks
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:25 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Yep... I wouldn't use this specific product in a house... but it's the only
VDSL equipment I have firsthand experience with.

http://tinyurl.com/yefhy2q


Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Is that both directions? Maybe thats the answer to Forbes question? -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:26 PM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:

> VDSL equipment can get up to the 70Mbps range or so...
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:07 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> 100Mbps+
> on cat 3? Not according to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
> animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a
short
> cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to
lock
> down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but
> I've
> been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
> speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> things.
> -RickG
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
> Can
> > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come
from
> > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.
>  Most
> > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they
> stick
> > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the
best
> > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> >
> > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.
I
> > never saw them used though.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > Any examples?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > &g

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Jerry Richardson]

If you really get stuck, the Netgear PowerLine thingy's actually work.

Otherwise NetSys Ethernet repeaters will do 25Mbps.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of 3-dB Networks
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:25 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Yep... I wouldn't use this specific product in a house... but it's the only
VDSL equipment I have firsthand experience with.

http://tinyurl.com/yefhy2q


Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Is that both directions? Maybe thats the answer to Forbes question? -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:26 PM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:

> VDSL equipment can get up to the 70Mbps range or so...
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:07 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> 100Mbps+
> on cat 3? Not according to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
> animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a
short
> cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to
lock
> down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but
> I've
> been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
> speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> things.
> -RickG
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
> Can
> > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come
from
> > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.
>  Most
> > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they
> stick
> > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the
best
> > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> >
> > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.
I
> > never saw them used though.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > Any examples?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> > same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their int

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[3-dB Networks]

Yep... I wouldn't use this specific product in a house... but it's the only
VDSL equipment I have firsthand experience with.

http://tinyurl.com/yefhy2q


Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Is that both directions? Maybe thats the answer to Forbes question? -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:26 PM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:

> VDSL equipment can get up to the 70Mbps range or so...
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:07 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> 100Mbps+
> on cat 3? Not according to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
> animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a
short
> cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to
lock
> down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but
> I've
> been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
> speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> things.
> -RickG
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
> Can
> > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come
from
> > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.
>  Most
> > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they
> stick
> > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the
best
> > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> >
> > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.
I
> > never saw them used though.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > Any examples?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> > same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal
wiring
> > is
> > > >> virtually unused.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Forbes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
&

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

But the word "Reliably" is on the description.  So it can "reliably" carry
10mbps but we all know you can push it farther, as in running gigabit over
Cat5.  All depends on your environment.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

If I read the specs correctly, it only does 10Mbps over cat3. To get the
higher speeds you need cat 5 or better. -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:29 PM, jp  wrote:

> http://www.versatek.com/products/vxveb160r2.htm
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:06:37PM -0500, RickG wrote:
> > Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> > My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> 100Mbps+
> > on cat 3? Not according to this:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such
> an
> > animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> > We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a
> short
> > cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> > experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to
> lock
> > down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but
> I've
> > been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> > which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries.
The
> > speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> > Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> > things.
> > -RickG
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West <
> robert.w...@just-micro.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>  Can
> > > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come
> from
> > > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.
>  Most
> > > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who
knows
> > > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they
> stick
> > > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the
> best
> > > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> > >
> > > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines
in
> the
> > > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.
That
> was
> > > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.
>  I
> > > never saw them used though.
> > >
> > > Bob-
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of RickG
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > > To: WISPA General List
> > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> > >
> > > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> > > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > > Any examples?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > > >
> > > > -Kevin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is
the
> > > same
> > > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal
> wiring
> > > is
> > > > >> virtually unused.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Tha

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

Oh, I thought you meant the "slick silver" stuff :)

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Robert West wrote:

> Standard "Old School" residential phone wire.  Heavy gauge 2 pair.  Red,
> black, yellow, green.  At least around here, Ohio, the Telco installed some
> pretty stiff wire.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:50 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
> "The conductors on phone wire are thicker giving more surface area for the
> electrons to play on, more than the thin Cat5."
> Huh? What type of phone wire are you referring to?
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> > receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> > PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone
> wire.
> > Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> > giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> > Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5,
> you
> > just have to have the right conditions.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > wrote:
> >
> > > We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > > My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> > > as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > > Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> > > virtually unused.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Forbes
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

That was my next question :)

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Jerry Richardson  wrote:

> DSL is much different than Ethernet. Higher peak to peak voltage, only
> needs one pair, will run with dialtone, tolerates splices, etc. Phone lines
> are typically daisy chained from jack to jack - even if it's 6-pair. The
> pairs are pulled out depending on which line you want to tap.
>
> Ethernet is much more fragile. Sometimes you can get away with 1 splice on
> Ethernet, other times you can't. Depends on the devices.
>
> If all of the lines are home run to a cabinet, then you can grab 2 of the
> pairs. Since the runs are usually 100' or less you can likely get 100Mbps.
> Otherwise 10Mbps will be much more forgiving.
>
> But really, do you want a bunch of non-standard installs out there that you
> have to explain to a new guy every time he finds one?
>
> Jerry
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:58 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Think about it.  How many DSL connections have you encountered that
> had a long run of satin phone cord from a block to the DSL modem?  I
> used to have a DSL connection running on some of the UGLIEST station
> cable you can imagine; Scotch locks, stubs, all of it.  Yeah it will
> work.  Is it a good idea?
>
> Mike
>
> At 11:58 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
> >Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>  Can
> >easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> >effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> >the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> >phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> >where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> >with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> >option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> >
> >There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> >home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> >in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> >never saw them used though.
> >
> >Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >Behalf Of RickG
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> >To: WISPA General List
> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> >That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> >to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> >Any examples?
> >
> >On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > > >> virtually unused.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Forbes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > >>
> > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >>
> > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >>
> > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

If I read the specs correctly, it only does 10Mbps over cat3. To get the
higher speeds you need cat 5 or better. -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:29 PM, jp  wrote:

> http://www.versatek.com/products/vxveb160r2.htm
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:06:37PM -0500, RickG wrote:
> > Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> > My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> 100Mbps+
> > on cat 3? Not according to this:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such
> an
> > animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> > We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a
> short
> > cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> > experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to
> lock
> > down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but
> I've
> > been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> > which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
> > speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> > Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> > things.
> > -RickG
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West <
> robert.w...@just-micro.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>  Can
> > > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come
> from
> > > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.
>  Most
> > > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> > > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they
> stick
> > > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the
> best
> > > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> > >
> > > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> > > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> > > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.
>  I
> > > never saw them used though.
> > >
> > > Bob-
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of RickG
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > > To: WISPA General List
> > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> > >
> > > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> > > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > > Any examples?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > > >
> > > > -Kevin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> > > same
> > > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal
> wiring
> > > is
> > > > >> virtually unused.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > >> Forbes
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> > > 
> > > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

Is that both directions? Maybe thats the answer to Forbes question? -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:26 PM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:

> VDSL equipment can get up to the 70Mbps range or so...
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:07 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> 100Mbps+
> on cat 3? Not according to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
> animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
> cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
> down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but
> I've
> been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
> speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> things.
> -RickG
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
> Can
> > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.
>  Most
> > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they
> stick
> > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> >
> > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> > never saw them used though.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > Any examples?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> > same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> > is
> > > >> virtually unused.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Forbes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > > >>
> > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >>
> > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscrib

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

Ryan,

Sure, I've done 100Mbps wireless links. But thats not the point. Forbes
originally posted that cat3 will do 100Mbps. I doubt it but if such
equipment exists then I'd like to have that in my war chest. Having ways to
do all kinds of things is very handy. With that said, your point is actually
a point I made in a following post and up to 10Mbps will handle most WAN
connections.

-RickG


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:15 PM, D. Ryan Spott  wrote:

> Rick,
>
> Do you provide 100mbps service to consumer level connections via
> wireless links?
>
> If I can get 4-12mbits down a cat3 or telco wire for a home user then
> then I'll probably go for it. ;)
>
> Ryan
>
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 9:06 AM, RickG  wrote:
>
> > Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> > My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> > 100Mbps+
> > on cat 3? Not according to this:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If
> > such an
> > animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> > We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose
> > a short
> > cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> > experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had
> > to lock
> > down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all
> > but I've
> > been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out
> > EMF
> > which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission
> > retries. The
> > speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> > Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> > things.
> > -RickG
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West <
> robert.w...@just-micro.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> >> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and
> >> receive.  Can
> >> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> >> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems
> >> come from
> >> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has
> >> made.  Most
> >> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who
> >> knows
> >> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if
> >> they stick
> >> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was
> >> the best
> >> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on
> >> its face.
> >>
> >> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone
> >> lines in the
> >> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.
> >> That was
> >> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with
> >> them.  I
> >> never saw them used though.
> >>
> >> Bob-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
> >> boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of RickG
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >>
> >> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> >> references
> >> to the standard being 10Mbps:
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> >> Any examples?
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> >>> barbwire!
> >>>
> >>> -Kevin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> >>>> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> >>>>> house.
> >>>>> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> >> same
> >>>>> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> >>>>> line?
> >

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[eje]

At one point I was desperate and used some cat3 keystones with cat5 cabling 
worked fine for some of the short runs I did but one of the runs was almost 
100ft and I had to force the network card into 10mbit mode to be able to get 
any communication going through that link (it would auto neg at 100 but I could 
get and data through). 6mo later we replaced the computer and couldn't get data 
com going on the new computer for a long while until I finally remembered that 
I had used the cat3 keystones and replaced them and things was working again. A 
Pain in the rear will never do that again. Might be able to make it work NOW 
but later when equipment is replaced and it isn't working will you remember 
what you don't and get it working quickly again?
Not worth considering in the long run if you ask me. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: RickG 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:06:37 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do 100Mbps+
on cat 3? Not according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but I've
been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
things.
-RickG


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.  Can
> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its face.
>
> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in the
> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That was
> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> never saw them used though.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except references
> to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> Any examples?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
> 
> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
> 
> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireles

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

I'll add, when copper pennies were COPPER PENNIES!  No need back then to be
concerned about wire thickness versus cost.  Over engineered wire.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:00 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Standard "Old School" residential phone wire.  Heavy gauge 2 pair.  Red,
black, yellow, green.  At least around here, Ohio, the Telco installed some
pretty stiff wire.




-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:50 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West
wrote:
"The conductors on phone wire are thicker giving more surface area for the
electrons to play on, more than the thin Cat5."
Huh? What type of phone wire are you referring to?

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone wire.
> Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5,
you
> just have to have the right conditions.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> wrote:
>
> > We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> > as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> > virtually unused.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Forbes
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
>

> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>


>
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>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

Standard "Old School" residential phone wire.  Heavy gauge 2 pair.  Red,
black, yellow, green.  At least around here, Ohio, the Telco installed some
pretty stiff wire.




-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:50 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West
wrote:
"The conductors on phone wire are thicker giving more surface area for the
electrons to play on, more than the thin Cat5."
Huh? What type of phone wire are you referring to?

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone wire.
> Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5,
you
> just have to have the right conditions.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> wrote:
>
> > We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> > as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> > virtually unused.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Forbes
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
>

> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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>
>


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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike Hammett]

The prevalent standard uses all 4, they tried one that did just 2, but it 
didn't take hold as it required higher quality cabling.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:51 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> There was a technology that used all 4 pairs. It was a proprietary 
> solution that put Video on one set and data on the other. Broadxxx or 
> something like that.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:01 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be 
> wrong...
>
> On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in 
>> addition
>> to certain quality measures.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------
>> From: "Robert West" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>>> Can
>>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come 
>>> from
>>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made. 
>>> Most
>>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they 
>>> stick
>>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the 
>>> best
>>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>>> face.
>>>
>>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>>> the
>>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>>> was
>>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them. 
>>> I
>>> never saw them used though.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of RickG
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>>
>>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>>> references
>>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>>> Any examples?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>>
>>>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old 
>>>> barbwire!
>>>>
>>>> -Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>>> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the 
>>>> >> house.
>>>> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
>>>> >> same
>>>> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone 
>>>> >> line?
>>>> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
>>>> >> is
>>>> >> virtually unused.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>> >> Forbes
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>> -

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

Yeah, but to just go up and punch in a cat5 jack to the phone wiring just
ain't gonna cut it.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:27 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

VDSL equipment can get up to the 70Mbps range or so...

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do 100Mbps+
on cat 3? Not according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but I've
been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
things.
-RickG


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
Can
> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
face.
>
> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
the
> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
was
> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> never saw them used though.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
references
> to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> Any examples?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>

> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>

> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

Also, solid core versus stranded wire.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> The number of twists per inch makes a difference as well.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Robert West" 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:04 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> > Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> > receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> > PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone
> wire.
> > Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> > giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> > Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5,
> > you
> > just have to have the right conditions.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > wrote:
> >
> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> >> virtually unused.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Forbes
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> > 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> > 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

Whats your point? Considering that most internet connections are less than
10Mbps, DSL will work fine over phone line.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Mike  wrote:

> Think about it.  How many DSL connections have you encountered that
> had a long run of satin phone cord from a block to the DSL modem?  I
> used to have a DSL connection running on some of the UGLIEST station
> cable you can imagine; Scotch locks, stubs, all of it.  Yeah it will
> work.  Is it a good idea?
>
> Mike
>
> At 11:58 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
> >Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>  Can
> >easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> >effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> >the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> >phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> >where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> >with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> >option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> >
> >There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> >home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> >in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> >never saw them used though.
> >
> >Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >Behalf Of RickG
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> >To: WISPA General List
> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> >That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> >to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> >Any examples?
> >
> >On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > > >> virtually unused.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Forbes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > >>
> > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >>
> > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >>
> > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >
> > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >
> > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > 

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Jerry Richardson]

Of course we love standards, that's why there's so many!!!

Jerry

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:39 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

There's the confusion.  2 "standards".  One with 4 pair and one with 2 pair.
Gotta love standards.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-T


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:00 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be 
> wrong...
>
> On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in 
>> addition
>> to certain quality measures.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------
>> From: "Robert West" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>>> Can
>>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come 
>>> from
>>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made. 
>>> Most
>>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they 
>>> stick
>>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the 
>>> best
>>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>>> face.
>>>
>>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>>> the
>>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>>> was
>>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them. 
>>> I
>>> never saw them used though.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of RickG
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>>
>>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>>> references
>>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>>> Any examples?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>>
>>>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old 
>>>> barbwire!
>>>>
>>>> -Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>>> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the 
>>>> >> house.
>>>> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
>>>> >> same
>>>> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone 
>>>> >> line?
>>>> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
>>>> >> is
>>>> >> virtually unused.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>> >> Forbes
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>

>>> 
>>>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>&g

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Jerry Richardson]

There was a technology that used all 4 pairs. It was a proprietary solution 
that put Video on one set and data on the other. Broadxxx or something like 
that.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:01 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be wrong...

On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in addition
> to certain quality measures.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Robert West" 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>> Can
>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>> face.
>>
>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>> the
>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>> was
>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
>> never saw them used though.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>> references
>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>> Any examples?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>
>>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
>>>
>>> -Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>>> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
>>> >> same
>>> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>>> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
>>> >> is
>>> >> virtually unused.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Forbes
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> >>
>>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> >>
>>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>> >>
>>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> >
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> >
>>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> >
>>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>> >
>>> &

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West wrote:
"The conductors on phone wire are thicker giving more surface area for the
electrons to play on, more than the thin Cat5."
Huh? What type of phone wire are you referring to?

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone wire.
> Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5, you
> just have to have the right conditions.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> wrote:
>
> > We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> > as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> > virtually unused.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Forbes
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Jerry Richardson]

DSL is much different than Ethernet. Higher peak to peak voltage, only needs 
one pair, will run with dialtone, tolerates splices, etc. Phone lines are 
typically daisy chained from jack to jack - even if it's 6-pair. The pairs are 
pulled out depending on which line you want to tap.

Ethernet is much more fragile. Sometimes you can get away with 1 splice on 
Ethernet, other times you can't. Depends on the devices.

If all of the lines are home run to a cabinet, then you can grab 2 of the 
pairs. Since the runs are usually 100' or less you can likely get 100Mbps. 
Otherwise 10Mbps will be much more forgiving.

But really, do you want a bunch of non-standard installs out there that you 
have to explain to a new guy every time he finds one?

Jerry


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Mike
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Think about it.  How many DSL connections have you encountered that 
had a long run of satin phone cord from a block to the DSL modem?  I 
used to have a DSL connection running on some of the UGLIEST station 
cable you can imagine; Scotch locks, stubs, all of it.  Yeah it will 
work.  Is it a good idea?

Mike

At 11:58 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
>Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.  Can
>easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
>the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
>phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
>with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
>option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its face.
>
>There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in the
>home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That was
>in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
>never saw them used though.
>
>Bob-
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of RickG
>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
>That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except references
>to the standard being 10Mbps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>Any examples?
>
>On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
>
>
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
> &g

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

Exactly.  Can it be done.  Sure!  What would it take to do it out in the
field?  Way too much!!!



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do 100Mbps+
on cat 3? Not according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but I've
been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
things.
-RickG


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
Can
> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
face.
>
> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
the
> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
was
> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> never saw them used though.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
references
> to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> Any examples?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>

> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>

> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > 

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[jp]

http://www.versatek.com/products/vxveb160r2.htm

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:06:37PM -0500, RickG wrote:
> Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do 100Mbps+
> on cat 3? Not according to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
> animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
> cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
> down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but I've
> been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
> speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> things.
> -RickG
> 
> 
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West 
> wrote:
> 
> > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.  Can
> > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its face.
> >
> > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in the
> > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That was
> > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> > never saw them used though.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except references
> > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > Any examples?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> > same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> > is
> > > >> virtually unused.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Forbes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > > >>
> > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >>
> > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >>
> > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > 
> > 

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[3-dB Networks]

VDSL equipment can get up to the 70Mbps range or so...

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do 100Mbps+
on cat 3? Not according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but I've
been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
things.
-RickG


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
Can
> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
face.
>
> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
the
> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
was
> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> never saw them used though.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
references
> to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> Any examples?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>

> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>

> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > 

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[D. Ryan Spott]

Rick,

Do you provide 100mbps service to consumer level connections via  
wireless links?

If I can get 4-12mbits down a cat3 or telco wire for a home user then  
then I'll probably go for it. ;)

Ryan



On Nov 18, 2009, at 9:06 AM, RickG  wrote:

> Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do  
> 100Mbps+
> on cat 3? Not according to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If  
> such an
> animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose  
> a short
> cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had  
> to lock
> down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all  
> but I've
> been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out  
> EMF
> which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission  
> retries. The
> speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> things.
> -RickG
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West  >wrote:
>
>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and  
>> receive.  Can
>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems  
>> come from
>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has  
>> made.  Most
>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who  
>> knows
>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if  
>> they stick
>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was  
>> the best
>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on  
>> its face.
>>
>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone  
>> lines in the
>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.   
>> That was
>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with  
>> them.  I
>> never saw them used though.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except  
>> references
>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>> Any examples?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal   
>> wrote:
>>
>>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old  
>>> barbwire!
>>>
>>> -Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>>> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the  
>>>>> house.
>>>>> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
>> same
>>>>> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone  
>>>>> line?
>>>>> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal  
>>>>> wiring
>> is
>>>>> virtually unused.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Forbes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> ---
>> 
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> ---
>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.o

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do 100Mbps+
on cat 3? Not according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but I've
been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
things.
-RickG


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.  Can
> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its face.
>
> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in the
> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That was
> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> never saw them used though.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except references
> to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> Any examples?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
> 
> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
> 
> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

There's the confusion.  2 "standards".  One with 4 pair and one with 2 pair.
Gotta love standards.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-T


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:00 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be 
> wrong...
>
> On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in 
>> addition
>> to certain quality measures.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------
>> From: "Robert West" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>>> Can
>>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come 
>>> from
>>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made. 
>>> Most
>>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they 
>>> stick
>>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the 
>>> best
>>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>>> face.
>>>
>>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>>> the
>>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>>> was
>>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them. 
>>> I
>>> never saw them used though.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of RickG
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>>
>>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>>> references
>>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>>> Any examples?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>>
>>>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old 
>>>> barbwire!
>>>>
>>>> -Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>>> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the 
>>>> >> house.
>>>> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
>>>> >> same
>>>> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone 
>>>> >> line?
>>>> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
>>>> >> is
>>>> >> virtually unused.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>> >> Forbes
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>

>>> 
>>>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>

>>> 
>>>> >>
>>>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Subscrib

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

I know, but the twists are to ward off evil RF and magnetic interference.
If you were in a situation with none of these ambient problems you should be
able to push gigabit through it.  But my point was really that never have I
seen the right conditions.  You could play MacGyver and wire up a big
network using Cat3 but in the long run it would cost you more in B.S. than
paying 50 bucks or so for 1000' of the right stuff.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:41 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

The number of twists per inch makes a difference as well.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Robert West" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:04 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone wire.
> Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5, 
> you
> just have to have the right conditions.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> wrote:
>
>> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
>> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
>> virtually unused.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Forbes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>
>

> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike Hammett]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-T


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:00 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be 
> wrong...
>
> On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in 
>> addition
>> to certain quality measures.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Robert West" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>>> Can
>>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come 
>>> from
>>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made. 
>>> Most
>>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they 
>>> stick
>>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the 
>>> best
>>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>>> face.
>>>
>>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>>> the
>>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>>> was
>>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them. 
>>> I
>>> never saw them used though.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of RickG
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>>
>>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>>> references
>>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>>> Any examples?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>>
>>>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old 
>>>> barbwire!
>>>>
>>>> -Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>>> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the 
>>>> >> house.
>>>> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
>>>> >> same
>>>> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone 
>>>> >> line?
>>>> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
>>>> >> is
>>>> >> virtually unused.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>> >> Forbes
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> >>
>>>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>> 

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Josh Luthman]

Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be wrong...

On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in addition
> to certain quality measures.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Robert West" 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>> Can
>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>> face.
>>
>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>> the
>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>> was
>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
>> never saw them used though.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>> references
>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>> Any examples?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>
>>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
>>>
>>> -Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>>> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
>>> >> same
>>> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>>> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
>>> >> is
>>> >> virtually unused.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Forbes
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> >>
>>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> >>
>>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>> >>
>>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> >
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> >
>>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> >
>>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>> >
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>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>
>> 

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike Hammett]

I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in addition 
to certain quality measures.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Robert West" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive. 
> Can
> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its 
> face.
>
> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in 
> the
> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That 
> was
> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> never saw them used though.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except 
> references
> to the standard being 10Mbps: 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> Any examples?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
>>
>> -Kevin
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the 
>> >> same
>> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring 
>> >> is
>> >> virtually unused.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Forbes
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
> 
> 
>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >>
>> >>
>>
> 
> 
>> >>
>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >>
>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >>
>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
> 
> 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >
>>
> 
> 
>> >
>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >
>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >
>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
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> 
> 
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>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike Hammett]

The number of twists per inch makes a difference as well.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Robert West" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:04 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone wire.
> Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5, 
> you
> just have to have the right conditions.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> wrote:
>
>> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
>> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
>> virtually unused.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Forbes
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>
> 
> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> 
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike]

Think about it.  How many DSL connections have you encountered that 
had a long run of satin phone cord from a block to the DSL modem?  I 
used to have a DSL connection running on some of the UGLIEST station 
cable you can imagine; Scotch locks, stubs, all of it.  Yeah it will 
work.  Is it a good idea?

Mike

At 11:58 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
>Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.  Can
>easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
>the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
>phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
>with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
>option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its face.
>
>There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in the
>home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That was
>in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
>never saw them used though.
>
>Bob-
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of RickG
>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
>That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except references
>to the standard being 10Mbps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>Any examples?
>
>On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
>
>
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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> >
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

True.  With the right conditions, even untwisted will do 100mbps but in a
house and running through walls, rarely would the right conditions exist.
But if you aren't pushing 100mbps, only maybe 1, 2 or 10 it could work.  But
you still have the unknown factors, like the splice block in the crawl space
that gets drenched every time the washer drains...  I've seen way
too many bad phone wiring jobs.  I'm sure everyone here has had one of those
"What in the hell?" moments.

Bob-





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Gary Garrett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Guys,
The "Category" rating has to do with the number of twists per inch.
The more twists the more the noise cancels out.
Noise screws up Data. Noise usually comes from AC power somewhere.
The lower the cat number the more screwed up your Data will be.
Period.



Robert West wrote:
> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
Can
> easily do 100mbps.  
> 




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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

When I worked for Qwest they were doing a study of using railroad rails as a
communication medium as well as pipelines.  As long as it will conduct
current, you can signal through it.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Kevin Neal
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:39 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!

-Kevin


On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> wrote:
>
>> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
>> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
>> virtually unused.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Forbes
>>
>>
>>
>>


>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>


>>
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>>
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>
>


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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Gary Garrett]

Guys,
The "Category" rating has to do with the number of twists per inch.
The more twists the more the noise cancels out.
Noise screws up Data. Noise usually comes from AC power somewhere.
The lower the cat number the more screwed up your Data will be.
Period.



Robert West wrote:
> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.  Can
> easily do 100mbps.  
> 



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone wire.
Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5, you
just have to have the right conditions.

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

100Mbps on cat 3? Really?

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
wrote:

> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> virtually unused.
>
> Thanks,
> Forbes
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>


>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.  Can
easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its face. 

There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in the
home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That was
in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
never saw them used though. 

Bob-
 



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except references
to the standard being 10Mbps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
Any examples?

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:

> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
>
> -Kevin
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > wrote:
> >
> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> >> virtually unused.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Forbes
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>


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> >>
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except references
to the standard being 10Mbps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
Any examples?

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:

> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
>
> -Kevin
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > wrote:
> >
> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> >> virtually unused.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Forbes
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
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> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
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> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Josh Luthman]

Cat3 is only 3 pair is it not?

On 11/17/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> Enough pairs for data and power?
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Forbes Mercy" 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 3:12 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
>> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
>> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
>> virtually unused.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Forbes
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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>>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Kevin Neal]

With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!

-Kevin


On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> wrote:
>
>> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
>> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
>> virtually unused.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Forbes
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

100Mbps on cat 3? Really?

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
wrote:

> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> virtually unused.
>
> Thanks,
> Forbes
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike Hammett]

Enough pairs for data and power?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Forbes Mercy" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 3:12 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> virtually unused.
>
> Thanks,
> Forbes
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Jonathan Schmidt]

...unless, a knowledgeable architect did a 100% home run to a wiring
closet...then you have a chance.
. . . J o n a t h a n 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Schmidt
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 5:41 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Old cat3 has a myriad of stubs...it's awful.  You'll never figure out
what's happening.

. . . J o n a t h a n 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of jp
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 4:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Cat3 == phone line
phone line != Cat3

Phone wiring doesn't even have to make the scale of categories.

A lot of the phone wiring is put in daisy chained with wire nuts, by
electricians, homeowners, etc...


On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 01:12:10PM -0800, Forbes Mercy wrote:
> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the 
> same as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
line?
> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring 
> is virtually unused.
> 
> Thanks,
> Forbes
> 
> 
>
--
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 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Jonathan Schmidt]

Old cat3 has a myriad of stubs...it's awful.  You'll never figure out
what's happening.

. . . J o n a t h a n 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of jp
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 4:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Cat3 == phone line
phone line != Cat3

Phone wiring doesn't even have to make the scale of categories.

A lot of the phone wiring is put in daisy chained with wire nuts, by
electricians, homeowners, etc...


On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 01:12:10PM -0800, Forbes Mercy wrote:
> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> virtually unused.
> 
> Thanks,
> Forbes
> 
> 
>
--
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KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting 
 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[jp]

Cat3 == phone line
phone line != Cat3

Phone wiring doesn't even have to make the scale of categories.

A lot of the phone wiring is put in daisy chained with wire nuts, by 
electricians, homeowners, etc...


On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 01:12:10PM -0800, Forbes Mercy wrote:
> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> virtually unused.
> 
> Thanks,
> Forbes
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Bret Clark]

You may not have to rewire...depends a lot on the distance of the link,
but Cat 3 will work.

Ryan Spott wrote:

  I do this when the customer has a "smart closet"


It works great. Until we get Gig-E wireless... then boy oh boy, I
might have to do some re-wiring!

ryan

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
 wrote:
  
  
We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
virtually unused.

Thanks,
Forbes



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Ryan Spott]

I do this when the customer has a "smart closet"


It works great. Until we get Gig-E wireless... then boy oh boy, I
might have to do some re-wiring!

ryan

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
 wrote:
> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> virtually unused.
>
> Thanks,
> Forbes
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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[WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Forbes Mercy]

We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
virtually unused.

Thanks,
Forbes



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