Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
Mac Dearman wrote: West Corporation bought Intrado for 465 million dollars not including expenses. I think that makes Intrado pretty sound and West Corporation is up 24% to $460 million in revenues in their second quarter reports 2006. Who are they? Hell who really cares? They had 460 million CASH - - someone knows them well and does a lot of business with them! In fact West did not have $460M in cash. Their balance sheet for Q405 (before the transaction) showed just over $34M in cash, which is why the press release stated they would use cash, debt, and a credit line for the acquisition. You can see the effect of the acquisition on their balance sheet now, which shows they have $33M in cash and $736M in debt. Compare that with Vonage, which currently has $597M in cash and $278M in debt. Clearly, Vonage has a stronger balance sheet, but that doesn't mean much in and of itself. Anyway, my point remains the same; Intrado had a problem with their business that gave West the opportunity to buy them. Whether West can make it work remains to be seen. You can try to trash anything, but that does not change the truth of what is going on at Intrado, West Communications or their partners. You can schpill a bunch of crap, but that is not going to change the fact that you are not legal in what you are doing if you aren't providing e911 for your VoIP clients. I haven't trashed anything; just shared facts, which you don't seem to like. Further, you don't need Intrado to provide e911 services. Why? Because Intrado is just buying the e911 trunks from the ILECs anyway. Anyone can purchase a DS1 e911 trunk to each of the selective routers they may need to cover their market area. If you are a WISP, you don't need national e911 coverage; you need local e911 coverage. Think about that... Intrado et all have a business model based on providing e911 services to national over the internet VoIP providers who need national e911 coverage. Why pay for national e911 service when you can get a single DS1 from your local ILEC and be done with it? Now, as far as we are concerned - for any and all that want to sell their VoIP solution (or ours) and not worry about having the FCC breathe down their necks - - I am offering a solution that will allow that at a price that will not send them to the bank or wonder how they are going to manage to pay next months bills due to an outrageous expense where there is no ROI. I am doing my best to make it easier on the WISP while you are trying to make them believe that you have the only solution or our solution has serious flaws. I have no doubt that you are a knowledgeable person, but dude - you are not the God of VoIP! Can you ever speak well of what someone else is doing or what the industry has happening? Is it always a terrible thing if you aren't in the middle of it? I've never stated I have the only solution. Criticizing your email doesn't make my solution better or worse. It does however share facts about the situation with others who are less informed. You should know that not only have we been selling VoIP service to our customers for over a year now, we also looked at Intrado as a solution. However, we found that Intrado's solution didn't make sense for us and I would argue doesn't make sense for any WISP. As far as providing e911 where there is NO 911 services - - well that says it all. That would be like building a 5 star hotel in the ghetto. Nomadic e911 is one method of handling that until the actual 911 build out is accomplished. It does make you legal if you are doing business in a place like that. I don't have a clue as to where that would be, but it is better than a bed pan and two drum sticks. It is a honest effort to accomplish what is not yet possible. I didn't say it was the best - - I said it would get you by to make you legal. Nomadic e911 and the FCC's requirement to have e911 in all areas where the service is marketed at two separate issues. There is simply no way around the FCC's requirement today if e911 service is not available. Vonage et all don't care, but the FCC is pretty clear. I am also unsure what MANUAL administrative processes you are referring too and if you would care to hit me off list with that I will do my darndest to understand. I provided an example of a PSAP requiring that database updates be supplied via fax. I think the crowd has answered the rest of your email as far as what has kept them out of the VoIP business :-) I will not debate this on list any further as far as the technical goes, but I will say if you need a fine e911 provider and you are a WISPA member - - hit me off list for your discounted price, full service - FCC Certified letter guaranteeing our compliance and I will be happy to reply. I saw the opposite set of responses where others stated they have been providing VoIP for a while without e911. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: htt
Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
Mac Dearman wrote: West Corporation bought Intrado for 465 million dollars not including expenses. I think that makes Intrado pretty sound and West Corporation is up 24% to $460 million in revenues in their second quarter reports 2006. Who are they? Hell who really cares? They had 460 million CASH - - someone knows them well and does a lot of business with them! In fact West did not have $460M in cash. Their balance sheet for Q405 (before the transaction) showed just over $34M in cash, which is why the press release stated they would use cash, debt, and a credit line for the acquisition. You can see the effect of the acquisition on their balance sheet now, which shows they have $33M in cash and $736M in debt. Compare that with Vonage, which currently has $597M in cash and $278M in debt. Clearly, Vonage has a stronger balance sheet, but that doesn't mean much in and of itself. Anyway, my point remains the same; Intrado had a problem with their business that gave West the opportunity to buy them. Whether West can make it work remains to be seen. You can try to trash anything, but that does not change the truth of what is going on at Intrado, West Communications or their partners. You can schpill a bunch of crap, but that is not going to change the fact that you are not legal in what you are doing if you aren't providing e911 for your VoIP clients. I haven't trashed anything; just shared facts, which you don't seem to like. Further, you don't need Intrado to provide e911 services. Why? Because Intrado is just buying the e911 trunks from the ILECs anyway. Anyone can purchase a DS1 e911 trunk to each of the selective routers they may need to cover their market area. If you are a WISP, you don't need national e911 coverage; you need local e911 coverage. Think about that... Intrado et all have a business model based on providing e911 services to national over the internet VoIP providers who need national e911 coverage. Why pay for national e911 service when you can get a single DS1 from your local ILEC and be done with it? Now, as far as we are concerned - for any and all that want to sell their VoIP solution (or ours) and not worry about having the FCC breathe down their necks - - I am offering a solution that will allow that at a price that will not send them to the bank or wonder how they are going to manage to pay next months bills due to an outrageous expense where there is no ROI. I am doing my best to make it easier on the WISP while you are trying to make them believe that you have the only solution or our solution has serious flaws. I have no doubt that you are a knowledgeable person, but dude - you are not the God of VoIP! Can you ever speak well of what someone else is doing or what the industry has happening? Is it always a terrible thing if you aren't in the middle of it? I've never stated I have the only solution. Criticizing your email doesn't make my solution better or worse. It does however share facts about the situation with others who are less informed. You should know that not only have we been selling VoIP service to our customers for over a year now, we also looked at Intrado as a solution. However, we found that Intrado's solution didn't make sense for us and I would argue doesn't make sense for any WISP. As far as providing e911 where there is NO 911 services - - well that says it all. That would be like building a 5 star hotel in the ghetto. Nomadic e911 is one method of handling that until the actual 911 build out is accomplished. It does make you legal if you are doing business in a place like that. I don't have a clue as to where that would be, but it is better than a bed pan and two drum sticks. It is a honest effort to accomplish what is not yet possible. I didn't say it was the best - - I said it would get you by to make you legal. Nomadic e911 and the FCC's requirement to have e911 in all areas where the service is marketed at two separate issues. There is simply no way around the FCC's requirement today if e911 service is not available. Vonage et all don't care, but the FCC is pretty clear. I am also unsure what MANUAL administrative processes you are referring too and if you would care to hit me off list with that I will do my darndest to understand. I provided an example of a PSAP requiring that database updates be supplied via fax. I think the crowd has answered the rest of your email as far as what has kept them out of the VoIP business :-) I will not debate this on list any further as far as the technical goes, but I will say if you need a fine e911 provider and you are a WISPA member - - hit me off list for your discounted price, full service - FCC Certified letter guaranteeing our compliance and I will be happy to reply. I saw the opposite set of responses where others stated they have been providing VoIP for a while without e911. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: htt
Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
Mac, Will you be operating in Canada Also?? May be a little cold for you :-P You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca office 905 349-2084 Emergency only Pager 905 377-6900 skype cajeptha Mac Dearman wrote: Matt, West Corporation bought Intrado for 465 million dollars not including expenses. I think that makes Intrado pretty sound and West Corporation is up 24% to $460 million in revenues in their second quarter reports 2006. Who are they? Hell who really cares? They had 460 million CASH - - someone knows them well and does a lot of business with them! You can try to trash anything, but that does not change the truth of what is going on at Intrado, West Communications or their partners. You can schpill a bunch of crap, but that is not going to change the fact that you are not legal in what you are doing if you aren't providing e911 for your VoIP clients. Now, as far as we are concerned - for any and all that want to sell their VoIP solution (or ours) and not worry about having the FCC breathe down their necks - - I am offering a solution that will allow that at a price that will not send them to the bank or wonder how they are going to manage to pay next months bills due to an outrageous expense where there is no ROI. I am doing my best to make it easier on the WISP while you are trying to make them believe that you have the only solution or our solution has serious flaws. I have no doubt that you are a knowledgeable person, but dude - you are not the God of VoIP! Can you ever speak well of what someone else is doing or what the industry has happening? Is it always a terrible thing if you aren't in the middle of it? As far as providing e911 where there is NO 911 services - - well that says it all. That would be like building a 5 star hotel in the ghetto. Nomadic e911 is one method of handling that until the actual 911 build out is accomplished. It does make you legal if you are doing business in a place like that. I don't have a clue as to where that would be, but it is better than a bed pan and two drum sticks. It is a honest effort to accomplish what is not yet possible. I didn't say it was the best - - I said it would get you by to make you legal. I am also unsure what MANUAL administrative processes you are referring too and if you would care to hit me off list with that I will do my darndest to understand. I think the crowd has answered the rest of your email as far as what has kept them out of the VoIP business :-) I will not debate this on list any further as far as the technical goes, but I will say if you need a fine e911 provider and you are a WISPA member - - hit me off list for your discounted price, full service - FCC Certified letter guaranteeing our compliance and I will be happy to reply. Sho nuff, Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone? Mac Dearman wrote: I am at a loss here as they are the Nations largest and even providing for certain Telcos! They have written the book on e911 as well as hold a many patents on the technology. They are the nations largest in terms of e911 management. However, before last year they didn't have a single e911 trunk. They tried to leverage their situation and provide VoIP e911 until they found themselves out of money from the buildout expense. They were bought by an unheard of company back in January. See http://radinfo.blogspot.com/2006/01/intrado-gets-bought.html. Yes - there is. First, where there are no actual 911 addresses or the County/Parish does not have their end set up there is the long/Lat approach that is being used. The right PSAP is still attained and the right address is given. Wrong, the FCC requires the VoIP operator to support e911 regardless of whether it is available. The VoIP operator is not allowed to market services in areas where e911 isn't supported. Well, we are doing much better than that :-) The biggest advantage with us is that once the e911 call is placed it does not travel over SIP trunks or the internet when it hits our NOC as we have dedicated PRIs to handle that traffic and we dump it to that route. This way we are not relying on Level3 in Dallas J but a straight shot to Intrado. Having PRIs doesn't help you with manual administrative processes. Your company is not special; every telecom company has to deal with these issues. You just don't know that you will have to. The e911 price is exactly what's holding the majority back! The majority of the ISPs who want to do VoIP can't handle a $5000.00 set up fee and then a minimum of $300.00 per month starting out with 3 VoIP phone clients! When we talk with other WISPs about VoIP they aren't so much worried
RE: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
Matt, West Corporation bought Intrado for 465 million dollars not including expenses. I think that makes Intrado pretty sound and West Corporation is up 24% to $460 million in revenues in their second quarter reports 2006. Who are they? Hell who really cares? They had 460 million CASH - - someone knows them well and does a lot of business with them! You can try to trash anything, but that does not change the truth of what is going on at Intrado, West Communications or their partners. You can schpill a bunch of crap, but that is not going to change the fact that you are not legal in what you are doing if you aren't providing e911 for your VoIP clients. Now, as far as we are concerned - for any and all that want to sell their VoIP solution (or ours) and not worry about having the FCC breathe down their necks - - I am offering a solution that will allow that at a price that will not send them to the bank or wonder how they are going to manage to pay next months bills due to an outrageous expense where there is no ROI. I am doing my best to make it easier on the WISP while you are trying to make them believe that you have the only solution or our solution has serious flaws. I have no doubt that you are a knowledgeable person, but dude - you are not the God of VoIP! Can you ever speak well of what someone else is doing or what the industry has happening? Is it always a terrible thing if you aren't in the middle of it? As far as providing e911 where there is NO 911 services - - well that says it all. That would be like building a 5 star hotel in the ghetto. Nomadic e911 is one method of handling that until the actual 911 build out is accomplished. It does make you legal if you are doing business in a place like that. I don't have a clue as to where that would be, but it is better than a bed pan and two drum sticks. It is a honest effort to accomplish what is not yet possible. I didn't say it was the best - - I said it would get you by to make you legal. I am also unsure what MANUAL administrative processes you are referring too and if you would care to hit me off list with that I will do my darndest to understand. I think the crowd has answered the rest of your email as far as what has kept them out of the VoIP business :-) I will not debate this on list any further as far as the technical goes, but I will say if you need a fine e911 provider and you are a WISPA member - - hit me off list for your discounted price, full service - FCC Certified letter guaranteeing our compliance and I will be happy to reply. Sho nuff, Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone? Mac Dearman wrote: > I am at a loss here as they are the Nations largest and even providing > for certain Telcos! They have written the book on e911 as well as hold > a many patents on the technology. They are the nations largest in terms of e911 management. However, before last year they didn't have a single e911 trunk. They tried to leverage their situation and provide VoIP e911 until they found themselves out of money from the buildout expense. They were bought by an unheard of company back in January. See http://radinfo.blogspot.com/2006/01/intrado-gets-bought.html. > Yes - there is. First, where there are no actual 911 addresses or the > County/Parish does not have their end set up there is the long/Lat > approach that is being used. The right PSAP is still attained and the > right address is given. Wrong, the FCC requires the VoIP operator to support e911 regardless of whether it is available. The VoIP operator is not allowed to market services in areas where e911 isn't supported. > Well, we are doing much better than that :-) The biggest advantage > with us is that once the e911 call is placed it does not travel over > SIP trunks or the internet when it hits our NOC as we have dedicated > PRIs to handle that traffic and we dump it to that route. This way we > are not relying on Level3 in Dallas J but a straight shot to Intrado. Having PRIs doesn't help you with manual administrative processes. Your company is not special; every telecom company has to deal with these issues. You just don't know that you will have to. > The e911 price is exactly what's holding the majority back! The > majority of the ISPs who want to do VoIP can't handle a $5000.00 set > up fee and then a minimum of $300.00 per month starting out with 3 > VoIP phone clients! When we talk with other WISPs about VoIP they aren't so much worried about the price. They are worried about their network, supporting their customers, running their own switch, etc. > It is not perfect, but VoIP is absolutely too easy! Asterisk has made > it possible for my mother to set up a fully func
Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
What is a "licensed 214 carrier"?. What does that mean? Thanks, Scriv Chuck wrote: AMEN Brother ! I have been a licensed 214 carrier for over 6 yearsdomestic and international VOIP ..& I have never been Certified..(at least not by the FCC...). Its hard to say what is exactly needed Chuck Moses HIGH DESERT WIRELESS BROADBAND COMMUNICATION 16922 Airport Blvd # 17 Mojave CA 93501 661 824 3431 office 818 406 6818 cell -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone? Just a few quick points: Intrado manages the 911 set-up for ILECs. When they tried to do this for VoIP and CLECs, ILECs said no; build your own. Then West bought them. What is West famous for? Nothing, but they own quite a few conference calling firms. FCC Certificate? Never heard of such a thing. There are certainly vague requirements for "Inter-Connected VOIP Providers" but no definitions. Even Vonage has told the FCC to come get them. National Coverage: No one has it. Level(3) the default big boy only covers about 80% of therate centers. The network formerly known as MCI only covers 65%. XO doesn't even give a percentage because they only hit 70 markets. Dash-911 announced that they had Nomadic licked, but most of the back-end (not all of it, most) for DASH911 is in fact Intrado (http://www.dash911.com/E911forVoIP/NomadicStaticE911/tabid/59/Default.aspx) . Most of E-911 is convoluted. How is Dash911 certified? Who certified them back in Dec. 0f 05? How can they cert LatinNode? This hairball was thrown up because there were too many madmen with a PC and a DSL connection selling VoIP. And VoIP was approaching the Tipping Point. So K-Mart threw out a hurdle. Good article on Nomadic VoIP: http://www.voip-news.com/news/features/e911-nomadic-trouble-070606 Cable has it easy - you can move your cable modem. Fixed Wireless has it easy too - you can't move your CPE, so make the ATA only work within Your IP range. Or do what AT&T does to CallVantage: if the ATA is unplugged for more than 5 minutes, you have to re-register before any outgoing calls. Here's an article describing how Vonage and MyPhone do it: http://www.voiplowdown.com/2006/07/e911_problems_f.html BIG POINT: Your VOIP service should be offered under a separate corporate entity. This way, if you are sued, you only lose the VOIP business - and not your house, pants and ISP. Asset management is a priority here. As is a decent lawyer, like Kris Twomey, to write you up a solid contract for VOIP that includes a clear E-911 explanation that the customer signs. That's my 25 cents. Peter @ RAD-INFO -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
AMEN Brother ! I have been a licensed 214 carrier for over 6 yearsdomestic and international VOIP ..& I have never been Certified..(at least not by the FCC...). Its hard to say what is exactly needed Chuck Moses HIGH DESERT WIRELESS BROADBAND COMMUNICATION 16922 Airport Blvd # 17 Mojave CA 93501 661 824 3431 office 818 406 6818 cell -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone? Just a few quick points: Intrado manages the 911 set-up for ILECs. When they tried to do this for VoIP and CLECs, ILECs said no; build your own. Then West bought them. What is West famous for? Nothing, but they own quite a few conference calling firms. FCC Certificate? Never heard of such a thing. There are certainly vague requirements for "Inter-Connected VOIP Providers" but no definitions. Even Vonage has told the FCC to come get them. National Coverage: No one has it. Level(3) the default big boy only covers about 80% of therate centers. The network formerly known as MCI only covers 65%. XO doesn't even give a percentage because they only hit 70 markets. Dash-911 announced that they had Nomadic licked, but most of the back-end (not all of it, most) for DASH911 is in fact Intrado (http://www.dash911.com/E911forVoIP/NomadicStaticE911/tabid/59/Default.aspx) . Most of E-911 is convoluted. How is Dash911 certified? Who certified them back in Dec. 0f 05? How can they cert LatinNode? This hairball was thrown up because there were too many madmen with a PC and a DSL connection selling VoIP. And VoIP was approaching the Tipping Point. So K-Mart threw out a hurdle. Good article on Nomadic VoIP: http://www.voip-news.com/news/features/e911-nomadic-trouble-070606 Cable has it easy - you can move your cable modem. Fixed Wireless has it easy too - you can't move your CPE, so make the ATA only work within Your IP range. Or do what AT&T does to CallVantage: if the ATA is unplugged for more than 5 minutes, you have to re-register before any outgoing calls. Here's an article describing how Vonage and MyPhone do it: http://www.voiplowdown.com/2006/07/e911_problems_f.html BIG POINT: Your VOIP service should be offered under a separate corporate entity. This way, if you are sued, you only lose the VOIP business - and not your house, pants and ISP. Asset management is a priority here. As is a decent lawyer, like Kris Twomey, to write you up a solid contract for VOIP that includes a clear E-911 explanation that the customer signs. That's my 25 cents. Peter @ RAD-INFO -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
Amen Peter Great comments and examples. I've got Kris working on my voip paperwork (legal agreements, etc etc) and I found an ITSP (Vitelity) that has the 911 functionality built in to the account, so I don't have to worry about implementing it directly on my system. Most of the e911 requirements are toothless tigers, meant to scare as many as possible from getting into the VOIP business. Cell carriers STILL haven't met e911 requirements in most places, and there are also the examples that Peter has brought up here. It's all part of the "culture of fear" that the current administration has worked hard to develop. Fsck fear! I say get the hell out of my way Matt Larsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peter R. wrote: Just a few quick points: Intrado manages the 911 set-up for ILECs. When they tried to do this for VoIP and CLECs, ILECs said no; build your own. Then West bought them. What is West famous for? Nothing, but they own quite a few conference calling firms. FCC Certificate? Never heard of such a thing. There are certainly vague requirements for "Inter-Connected VOIP Providers" but no definitions. Even Vonage has told the FCC to come get them. National Coverage: No one has it. Level(3) the default big boy only covers about 80% of therate centers. The network formerly known as MCI only covers 65%. XO doesn't even give a percentage because they only hit 70 markets. Dash-911 announced that they had Nomadic licked, but most of the back-end (not all of it, most) for DASH911 is in fact Intrado (http://www.dash911.com/E911forVoIP/NomadicStaticE911/tabid/59/Default.aspx). Most of E-911 is convoluted. How is Dash911 certified? Who certified them back in Dec. 0f 05? How can they cert LatinNode? This hairball was thrown up because there were too many madmen with a PC and a DSL connection selling VoIP. And VoIP was approaching the Tipping Point. So K-Mart threw out a hurdle. Good article on Nomadic VoIP: http://www.voip-news.com/news/features/e911-nomadic-trouble-070606 Cable has it easy - you can move your cable modem. Fixed Wireless has it easy too - you can't move your CPE, so make the ATA only work within Your IP range. Or do what AT&T does to CallVantage: if the ATA is unplugged for more than 5 minutes, you have to re-register before any outgoing calls. Here's an article describing how Vonage and MyPhone do it: http://www.voiplowdown.com/2006/07/e911_problems_f.html BIG POINT: Your VOIP service should be offered under a separate corporate entity. This way, if you are sued, you only lose the VOIP business - and not your house, pants and ISP. Asset management is a priority here. As is a decent lawyer, like Kris Twomey, to write you up a solid contract for VOIP that includes a clear E-911 explanation that the customer signs. That's my 25 cents. Peter @ RAD-INFO -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
Just a few quick points: Intrado manages the 911 set-up for ILECs. When they tried to do this for VoIP and CLECs, ILECs said no; build your own. Then West bought them. What is West famous for? Nothing, but they own quite a few conference calling firms. FCC Certificate? Never heard of such a thing. There are certainly vague requirements for "Inter-Connected VOIP Providers" but no definitions. Even Vonage has told the FCC to come get them. National Coverage: No one has it. Level(3) the default big boy only covers about 80% of therate centers. The network formerly known as MCI only covers 65%. XO doesn't even give a percentage because they only hit 70 markets. Dash-911 announced that they had Nomadic licked, but most of the back-end (not all of it, most) for DASH911 is in fact Intrado (http://www.dash911.com/E911forVoIP/NomadicStaticE911/tabid/59/Default.aspx). Most of E-911 is convoluted. How is Dash911 certified? Who certified them back in Dec. 0f 05? How can they cert LatinNode? This hairball was thrown up because there were too many madmen with a PC and a DSL connection selling VoIP. And VoIP was approaching the Tipping Point. So K-Mart threw out a hurdle. Good article on Nomadic VoIP: http://www.voip-news.com/news/features/e911-nomadic-trouble-070606 Cable has it easy - you can move your cable modem. Fixed Wireless has it easy too - you can't move your CPE, so make the ATA only work within Your IP range. Or do what AT&T does to CallVantage: if the ATA is unplugged for more than 5 minutes, you have to re-register before any outgoing calls. Here's an article describing how Vonage and MyPhone do it: http://www.voiplowdown.com/2006/07/e911_problems_f.html BIG POINT: Your VOIP service should be offered under a separate corporate entity. This way, if you are sued, you only lose the VOIP business - and not your house, pants and ISP. Asset management is a priority here. As is a decent lawyer, like Kris Twomey, to write you up a solid contract for VOIP that includes a clear E-911 explanation that the customer signs. That's my 25 cents. Peter @ RAD-INFO -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
Mac Dearman wrote: I am at a loss here as they are the Nations largest and even providing for certain Telcos! They have written the book on e911 as well as hold a many patents on the technology. They are the nations largest in terms of e911 management. However, before last year they didn't have a single e911 trunk. They tried to leverage their situation and provide VoIP e911 until they found themselves out of money from the buildout expense. They were bought by an unheard of company back in January. See http://radinfo.blogspot.com/2006/01/intrado-gets-bought.html. Yes - there is. First, where there are no actual 911 addresses or the County/Parish does not have their end set up there is the long/Lat approach that is being used. The right PSAP is still attained and the right address is given. Wrong, the FCC requires the VoIP operator to support e911 regardless of whether it is available. The VoIP operator is not allowed to market services in areas where e911 isn't supported. Well, we are doing much better than that :-) The biggest advantage with us is that once the e911 call is placed it does not travel over SIP trunks or the internet when it hits our NOC as we have dedicated PRIs to handle that traffic and we dump it to that route. This way we are not relying on Level3 in Dallas J but a straight shot to Intrado. Having PRIs doesn't help you with manual administrative processes. Your company is not special; every telecom company has to deal with these issues. You just don't know that you will have to. The e911 price is exactly what's holding the majority back! The majority of the ISPs who want to do VoIP can't handle a $5000.00 set up fee and then a minimum of $300.00 per month starting out with 3 VoIP phone clients! When we talk with other WISPs about VoIP they aren't so much worried about the price. They are worried about their network, supporting their customers, running their own switch, etc. It is not perfect, but VoIP is absolutely too easy! Asterisk has made it possible for my mother to set up a fully functional PBX. It kind of reminds me of driver's license in that any idiot who can breathe and see can get a license and anyone who can order a disc with the newest GUI can be in the VoIP business. Now the truth is that there are thousands out there, but only 10 worth subscribing to. Who are these 10? And why would you include your company in the list? Do you resell e911? No Who are you using for a solution? The ILEC like everyone else. Do you have a FCC certificate for each State you are doing business in? We are well aware of all the FCC regulations that impact our company and abide by them. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
I'm interested, Mac.VOIP is the 2nd most wanted service I hear about next to broadband. The number of customers who care about streaming TV or movies or do anything like that compared to the number who want voice service... well... I can't even recall anyone asking for anything BUT VOIP. And everyone has a different reason, too.One guy sits 200 feet from a telco's buried cable, but the political line that separates him from the ILEC runs across his driveway, and Qwest wanted $5/foot to run cable over to him... $5000, and then he could not get DSL, either. So, he told Qwest to shove it and uses Packet 8 now and wireless broadband. Other customers are snowbirds, and find the telco unaccomodating when it comes to having service for just 7 months a year. VOIP he can take with him to his winter hangout... Most would prefer that I provide it... saves them hassle with dealing with a 2nd tech support, billing ,etc. But 911 is absolutely the sticking point. +++ neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington email me at mark at neofast dot net 541-969-8200 Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net - Original Message - From: "Mac Dearman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:06 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] e911 anyone? > > I thought I would "feel out" the listonians here at WISPA first to see if I > could peak anyone's interest in a venture we have been working toward for a > couple months. > > My VoIP Company is currently in the final stages of getting set up with > Intrado (www.intrado.com) (Nations largest e911 provider) for our backbone > and call handling with the ability to resell e911 at an affordable price to > other ISPs who wish to legally have a VoIP service offering. It has been a > long and super expensive adventure and that's why so many of us are not > selling VoIP now. We will offer private branding and FCC compliance > certificates for all who would enter into this with us as well as a web > interface for management and updating, IVR updating, 24x7 call center as > well as a SOAP API interface or branded website. > > I have thought long and hard about the costs of getting onboard with other > e911 providers and I know that is the reasons so many of us aren't already > "whole hog" in the VoIP business. Most of these other companies are charging > a $5K set up fee and a $400.00 month minimum and as much as $3.00 per month > per DID just to offer VoIP legally. SCANDALOUS! > > Would anyone be interested in a solution that would make you 100% FCC legal > that wouldn't impose all the financial burdens on you to get set up and > running? > > I am talking a WISPA Members deal here folks! > > If you aren't a WISPA paid member yet - - - it would be in your best > interest to do so as this is going to rock the boat and make it EASY for all > of us WISPs to get in the VoIP arena. It will be exceptionally easy for any > WISPA member > > Please hit me off list if you questions or concerns. > > Mac > > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
Matt, I haven’t the time to explain all, but I can hit a couple points really fast. See inline below: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta First of all, are you familiar with Intrado's recent past? Very! Watching them lose their business because of VoIP e911 is pretty telling. I am at a loss here as they are the Nations largest and even providing for certain Telcos! They have written the book on e911 as well as hold a many patents on the technology. Secondly, there is no way to be 100% legal regarding VoIP since e911 is not available everywhere, while at the same time the FCC requires all VoIP operators to provide e911 everywhere. Yes - there is. First, where there are no actual 911 addresses or the County/Parish does not have their end set up there is the long/Lat approach that is being used. The right PSAP is still attained and the right address is given. Then there is the realty of working with VoIP upstreams. If you think a good backend system is going to make it all work you are mistaken. I can't tell you how many manual LNP orders we have to handhold. Heck, one of the PSAPs in our market requires all 911 database updates to be faxed to them. Well, we are doing much better than that :-) The biggest advantage with us is that once the e911 call is placed it does not travel over SIP trunks or the internet when it hits our NOC as we have dedicated PRIs to handle that traffic and we dump it to that route. This way we are not relying on Level3 in Dallas J but a straight shot to Intrado. e911 is not what is holding companies back. What is holding companies back is that VoIP is hard and expensive. We try and make it as seamless as possible to our VoIP downstreams, but it isn't perfect. The e911 price is exactly what's holding the majority back! The majority of the ISPs who want to do VoIP can't handle a $5000.00 set up fee and then a minimum of $300.00 per month starting out with 3 VoIP phone clients! It is not perfect, but VoIP is absolutely too easy! Asterisk has made it possible for my mother to set up a fully functional PBX. It kind of reminds me of driver's license in that any idiot who can breathe and see can get a license and anyone who can order a disc with the newest GUI can be in the VoIP business. Now the truth is that there are thousands out there, but only 10 worth subscribing to. I know people want to disagree, but we are doing hundreds of thousands of minutes each month, which I suspect is more than anyone else on this list. Do you resell e911? Who are you using for a solution? Do you have a FCC certificate for each State you are doing business in? Mac -Matt Mac Dearman wrote: > I thought I would "feel out" the listonians here at WISPA first to see if I > could peak anyone's interest in a venture we have been working toward for a > couple months. > > My VoIP Company is currently in the final stages of getting set up with > Intrado (www.intrado.com) (Nations largest e911 provider) for our backbone > and call handling with the ability to resell e911 at an affordable price to > other ISPs who wish to legally have a VoIP service offering. It has been a > long and super expensive adventure and that's why so many of us are not > selling VoIP now. We will offer private branding and FCC compliance > certificates for all who would enter into this with us as well as a web > interface for management and updating, IVR updating, 24x7 call center as > well as a SOAP API interface or branded website. > > I have thought long and hard about the costs of getting onboard with other > e911 providers and I know that is the reasons so many of us aren't already > "whole hog" in the VoIP business. Most of these other companies are charging > a $5K set up fee and a $400.00 month minimum and as much as $3.00 per month > per DID just to offer VoIP legally. SCANDALOUS! > > Would anyone be interested in a solution that would make you 100% FCC legal > that wouldn't impose all the financial burdens on you to get set up and > running? > > I am talking a WISPA Members deal here folks! > > If you aren't a WISPA paid member yet - - - it would be in your best > interest to do so as this is going to rock the boat and make it EASY for all > of us WISPs to get in the VoIP arena. It will be exceptionally easy for any > WISPA member > > Please hit me off list if you questions or concerns. > > Mac > > > > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
We would be interested in an E911 solution that doesn't cost an arm and a leg and we're WISPA memebers. - cw Mac Dearman wrote: I thought I would "feel out" the listonians here at WISPA first to see if I could peak anyone's interest in a venture we have been working toward for a couple months. My VoIP Company is currently in the final stages of getting set up with Intrado (www.intrado.com) (Nations largest e911 provider) for our backbone and call handling with the ability to resell e911 at an affordable price to other ISPs who wish to legally have a VoIP service offering. It has been a long and super expensive adventure and that's why so many of us are not selling VoIP now. We will offer private branding and FCC compliance certificates for all who would enter into this with us as well as a web interface for management and updating, IVR updating, 24x7 call center as well as a SOAP API interface or branded website. I have thought long and hard about the costs of getting onboard with other e911 providers and I know that is the reasons so many of us aren't already "whole hog" in the VoIP business. Most of these other companies are charging a $5K set up fee and a $400.00 month minimum and as much as $3.00 per month per DID just to offer VoIP legally. SCANDALOUS! Would anyone be interested in a solution that would make you 100% FCC legal that wouldn't impose all the financial burdens on you to get set up and running? I am talking a WISPA Members deal here folks! If you aren't a WISPA paid member yet - - - it would be in your best interest to do so as this is going to rock the boat and make it EASY for all of us WISPs to get in the VoIP arena. It will be exceptionally easy for any WISPA member Please hit me off list if you questions or concerns. Mac -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
First of all, are you familiar with Intrado's recent past? Watching them lose their business because of VoIP e911 is pretty telling. Secondly, there is no way to be 100% legal regarding VoIP since e911 is not available everywhere, while at the same time the FCC requires all VoIP operators to provide e911 everywhere. Then there is the realty of working with VoIP upstreams. If you think a good backend system is going to make it all work you are mistaken. I can't tell you how many manual LNP orders we have to handhold. Heck, one of the PSAPs in our market requires all 911 database updates to be faxed to them. e911 is not what is holding companies back. What is holding companies back is that VoIP is hard and expensive. We try and make it as seamless as possible to our VoIP downstreams, but it isn't perfect. I know people want to disagree, but we are doing hundreds of thousands of minutes each month, which I suspect is more than anyone else on this list. -Matt Mac Dearman wrote: I thought I would "feel out" the listonians here at WISPA first to see if I could peak anyone's interest in a venture we have been working toward for a couple months. My VoIP Company is currently in the final stages of getting set up with Intrado (www.intrado.com) (Nations largest e911 provider) for our backbone and call handling with the ability to resell e911 at an affordable price to other ISPs who wish to legally have a VoIP service offering. It has been a long and super expensive adventure and that's why so many of us are not selling VoIP now. We will offer private branding and FCC compliance certificates for all who would enter into this with us as well as a web interface for management and updating, IVR updating, 24x7 call center as well as a SOAP API interface or branded website. I have thought long and hard about the costs of getting onboard with other e911 providers and I know that is the reasons so many of us aren't already "whole hog" in the VoIP business. Most of these other companies are charging a $5K set up fee and a $400.00 month minimum and as much as $3.00 per month per DID just to offer VoIP legally. SCANDALOUS! Would anyone be interested in a solution that would make you 100% FCC legal that wouldn't impose all the financial burdens on you to get set up and running? I am talking a WISPA Members deal here folks! If you aren't a WISPA paid member yet - - - it would be in your best interest to do so as this is going to rock the boat and make it EASY for all of us WISPs to get in the VoIP arena. It will be exceptionally easy for any WISPA member Please hit me off list if you questions or concerns. Mac -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] e911 anyone?
I thought I would "feel out" the listonians here at WISPA first to see if I could peak anyone's interest in a venture we have been working toward for a couple months. My VoIP Company is currently in the final stages of getting set up with Intrado (www.intrado.com) (Nations largest e911 provider) for our backbone and call handling with the ability to resell e911 at an affordable price to other ISPs who wish to legally have a VoIP service offering. It has been a long and super expensive adventure and that's why so many of us are not selling VoIP now. We will offer private branding and FCC compliance certificates for all who would enter into this with us as well as a web interface for management and updating, IVR updating, 24x7 call center as well as a SOAP API interface or branded website. I have thought long and hard about the costs of getting onboard with other e911 providers and I know that is the reasons so many of us aren't already "whole hog" in the VoIP business. Most of these other companies are charging a $5K set up fee and a $400.00 month minimum and as much as $3.00 per month per DID just to offer VoIP legally. SCANDALOUS! Would anyone be interested in a solution that would make you 100% FCC legal that wouldn't impose all the financial burdens on you to get set up and running? I am talking a WISPA Members deal here folks! If you aren't a WISPA paid member yet - - - it would be in your best interest to do so as this is going to rock the boat and make it EASY for all of us WISPs to get in the VoIP arena. It will be exceptionally easy for any WISPA member Please hit me off list if you questions or concerns. Mac -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
