Re: [WSG] Form styling
Tom, I put this together a while ago which you'll probably find useful http://www.dave-woods.co.uk/?p=91 with it in action here http://www.dave-woods.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/accessible-forms1.html If you group the label with the form field then it's usually much easier to style the form and position it as you require. Hope that helps Cheers Dave On 26/09/2007, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello list, OK, I hate form styling. It's my least favorite thing. I have started using Eric Meyer's Reset style sheet. Does anyone have a favorite resource for dealing with forms. I am tired of resorting to... [cough] tables. I do manage on occasion to pull it off w/o tables, but it's always a struggle. Especially where labels are to the left of text inputs. Thanks a bunch in advance. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | www.mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Form styling
Glad it helped :o) The idea for the span around the legend and div around the fieldset initially came from http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/articles/css/legends-of-style/ This then gave me the idea of including a span around the actual label text as it then provides extra flexibility for styling the form. It won't always be necessary but is certainly useful if the label and input can't be styled as you require without the extra markup. Cheers Dave On 26/09/2007, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, Thanks a lot for this. It's really simple and I don't mind the extra span element. So simple in fact, I threw up in my mouth a little from my own embarrassment. :-P THANKS! And thanks to the others for the replies. I will hang on to these in case a situation arises where one method is needed over another. http://www.dave-woods.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/accessible-forms1.html -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Form styling
Mike, This is exactly the reason why I include the br at the end of the labels so that the form still displays nicely without the styles applied. I suppose a better case could be made for removing the display: block; from the labels in this situation but would be needed if for example you wanted a couple of labels side by side and needed to apply a width to the label. John, of course you're right though and the display: block on the label is doing the same thing as the br in the example above. On 27/09/2007, Mike at Green-Beast.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi John, With your labels set to display: block, you don't realy need the extra br at the end of each one. ;) You're right, of course, but I think it's a good idea to keep the breaks. Not everyone supports styles so the breaks keep the form neat without them. My 2 cents. Cheers. Mike Cherim Just relaunched as v5: http://greenmethods.com/ - Original Message - From: John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Form styling http://www.dave-woods.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/accessible-forms1.html With your labels set to display: block, you don't realy need the extra br at the end of each one. ;) -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Positioning a background image
Alternatively you could introduce and extra div and apply padding/margin to create the effect you need. If the background outside the container is a plain colour you could always apply a border-top or 120px to make it appear as you want. The first will definitely work for your situation whilst the second may work depending on the layout. On 01/10/2007, Matthew Pennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 30/09/2007, Mike Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's annoying! But thanks for the explanation :) All the information you ever need on background positioning: http://www.digital-web.com/articles/web_design_101_backgrounds/ :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Levels of 508 compliance
Hi, Are these what you're after? http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/ http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContentID=12 Thanks Dave On 03/10/2007, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi listers, Does anyone have a reference (link) to a site that actually spells out what criteria must be met for the levels of WCAG and 508 compliance. Can't seem to come up with quite what I am after from Google... Thanks a lot in advance. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility
Completely agree with most of the comments. Accessibility ensures that the site is usable, not just for disabled users but for ALL your users. It should come at no extra cost and only if the designer goes out of their way to deliver an inaccessible site does it become a problem. Adding alt attributes, using semantic HTML, ensuring that JavaScript isn't used for critical functionality etc shouldn't be nice to have's for the client, they should be built in as standard by any reputable web designer. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dave Woods http://www.dave-woods.co.uk [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 08/10/2007, Chris Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: McLaughlin, Gail G wrote: We always ask the client if they require that the site comply with accessibility. The response ranges from What is accessibility? to we'll worry about that later to No! So you build poor sites unless specifically told to build them to standards? Ouch. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility
Standards compliance doesn't automatically guarantee an accessible site and there's every chance that valid, semantic markup could be just as or even more inaccessible than a site using tables for layout and inline styles so I do agree and that wasn't the point I was personally trying to put across. If accessibility is considered by a skilled web designer who understands how users are likely to be impacted by different aspects of accessibility then these issues can be dealt with at the outset rather than trying to implement accessibility afterwards. I wasn't trying to belittle accessibility or suggest that it was easy but with the right skills and knowledge it should cost very little to implement single A compliance at the very least which in my opinion far too many websites fail to do. Considering aspects of the design that you've mentioned along with things like colour contrast, colour blindness, type of device being used, browser font-size etc go over and above web standards. However, if they are considered at the beginning of a project then it's not something that will add a huge amount of cost to development compared with another company who only decide at the end of development that they now need to consider accessibility. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dave Woods http://www.dave-woods.co.uk [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 08/10/2007, Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The cost of adding accessibility should really be zero. Statements like this illustrate a total lack of understanding that I am dismayed to encounter in this group. Standards compliance does not equal accessibility. It's just one part of it, and arguably the easiest part. As a designer/developer I don't really care about blind people. I don't consider them (gasp!). I do consider PDAs, cellphones, text-only browsers, screenreaders and google. That's your choice but don't kid yourself that you're building accessible websites. You aren't. You are building standards-compliant websites, and that's not the same thing. You are defining accessibility to be the bits you like doing, and you're pretending the difficult stuff does not exist or isn't important or isn't your responsibility. It can be very challenging to design content that people can understand when it is linearised or if they can only see a small part of the screen or they can only use a keyboard or keyboard emulator to navigate. To say that it's someone else's problem is a total cop-out and is unworthy of a professional designer. Of course it would be nice if user agents were better than they are, but some of these issues of comprehension are down to people, not the user agents. If a web designer's job is to communicate to people (and I'll bet that's what your customers expect), you ought to be taking people into account in your designs. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Snodgrass Sent: 08 October 2007 07:21 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Cost of Accessibility I agree completely with you. With the exception of your API specifics, I think the same exact way. The cost of adding accessibility should really be zero. It takes no extra time or effort if you are designing and coding your websites the proper, because the methods used for accessibility are also the standards for basic web design. Also, many of the changes that help make a website accessible are also very good for things like cross-browser compatibility and S.E.O. Christian Snodgrass Azure Ronin Web Design Joseph Taylor wrote: McLaughlin, Gail G wrote: We always ask the client if they require that the site comply with accessibility. Why not say Would you like a shitty website, or a good quality website? Well-made shouldn't be an extra feature... In fact, since its clearly cheaper and easier to make a crappy website, why don't you just mock up pages in Illustrator, save the whole thing as an image with no alt attribute, and use that instead of a real page? Thats real cheap and easy. Heck, there are people that actually do that! Most people will never know! I cannot tell anyone how to run their own business, or design a website for that matter, but I want to state for the record that anyone on this list should be doing there very best to make the best sites they can. Adding alt attributes to images and doing other minor things that make pages more adaptable to devices and more user-friendly is the right thing to do. Blind people? Accessibility is not about blind people. As a designer/developer I don't really care about blind people. I don't consider them (gasp!). I do consider PDAs, cellphones, text-only browsers, screenreaders and google. I take the responsibility upon myself to deliver a product that works on all of them. I also make no guarantees. I don't mention accessibility or other browsers
Re: [WSG] how a href with javascript pass in A level
Hi, CynthiaSays should only be used as a first step so passing any online automated accessibility test by no means guarantee's that a site is accessible so you should always do a manual check. The search is definitely not accessible on the link you've provided as it simply doesn't work without JavaScript. The header (imagemap) also uses JavaScript so this appears broken to anyone browsing without it. If this same content is still navigable using the main menu then I wouldn't consider this a major issue although they should certainly remove the icon (hand pointer) when JavaScript isn't enabled otherwise it appears clickable when it's not. I agree, that maybe the online validation tests should give more warning that you need to manually test as well but I'd always treat them as an initial test just to ensure you have the basics in place before a manual accessibility test takes place. Hope that helps. Dave - - - - - - - - - - Dave Woods http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 23/10/2007, Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, iam trying to understand how a page that have 1 or 2 javascript in href could pass in level A of WCAG 1. it have a noscript but that doesnt prove anything, cynthisays.com and TAW validators give the some result. I think they should give a warning or even a Human check. To prove if equivalent information are provide? The site that iam testing is www.alentejolitoral.pt it use a a href=javascript:SEB97811_Submit() title=Go Search but for using a noscript it pass in level A, this should be checked by humam, right!? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Minimum width help
Hi Dean,
Not sure what these two styles are actually doing but it looks like
they're the cause within your menu.css
#p7TBMsub03 { padding: 0 0 0 150px; }
#p7TBMsub04 { padding: 0 0 0 210px; }
Removing them seems to fix the problem with no adverse effect.
Cheers
Dave
- - - - - - - - - -
Dave Woods
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
On 24/10/2007, Dean Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can someone explain why I am generating a horizontal scroll bar at
1024 width?
http://www3.andersrice.com/
Thanks,
Dean
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Re: [WSG] Minimum width help
Actually, further investigation, I've spotted what's happening.
You're hiding the submenu's using this
.p7TBMsub {
position: absolute;
visibility:hidden;
left: 0;
top: 0;
width: 100%;
}
But then you're forgetting that the 100% width is being combined with
the padding and therefore forcing your page out by 210px.
You could take my original suggestion and remove the padding but the
better suggestion would be just to remove the width: 100%;
You're applying it to a block element which by default is 100% anyway
but by not applying it, the width will take into consideration the
other padding you're applying automatically.
So, change your code to this and it should work ;o)
.p7TBMsub {
position: absolute;
visibility:hidden;
left: 0;
top: 0;
}
Although, I'm not sure whether using visibility: hidden; will be bad
for screenreaders as I know display: none; will and you're doing a
similar thing so you may be better going for the suckerfish menu
approach where you position the hidden menu using offscreen negative
positioning.
http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/
But that's a different matter altogether.
Hope that helps.
- - - - - - - - - -
Dave Woods
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
On 24/10/2007, Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Dean,
Not sure what these two styles are actually doing but it looks like
they're the cause within your menu.css
#p7TBMsub03 { padding: 0 0 0 150px; }
#p7TBMsub04 { padding: 0 0 0 210px; }
Removing them seems to fix the problem with no adverse effect.
Cheers
Dave
- - - - - - - - - -
Dave Woods
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
On 24/10/2007, Dean Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can someone explain why I am generating a horizontal scroll bar at
1024 width?
http://www3.andersrice.com/
Thanks,
Dean
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Re: [WSG] Alt text for purely aesthetic images
Hi Simon, If you have an image for purely presentational purposes then you can use a blank alt attribute alt= However, if it's purely for presentational purposes then you should really apply it using CSS as a background image ;o) Thanks Dave http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 26/10/2007, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/ Guideline 1. Provide equivalent alternatives to auditory and visual content 1.1 Provide a text equivalent for every non-text element (e.g., via alt, longdesc, or in element content). This includes: images, graphical representations of text (including symbols), image map regions, animations (e.g., animated GIFs), applets and programmatic objects, ascii art, frames, scripts, images used as list bullets, spacers, graphical buttons, sounds (played with or without user interaction), stand-alone audio files, audio tracks of video, and video. [Priority 1] Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Alt text for purely aesthetic images
As a general rule, any images that add to the content or are required for navigation should be applied as a foreground image using the img tag and an alt attribute should be applied. If an image is purely for presentation then use CSS and apply it as a background image. Obviously there are exceptions to this where you may be using image replacement and in this situation you should provide text within the page that provides an alternative for the image. Looking at the page you've provided, it looks perfectly fine in the way you've applied the rounded corners although as a side issue I would suggest running it through http://validator.w3.org as you've got a few errors (you're using an XHTML doctype so don't forget to close img tags as well as escaping ampersands). ;o) Hope that helps. Dave http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 26/10/2007, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi again... Whoops...butterfingers I unwittingly hit send before completing my email. Anywise...here is what it should have said: Hi, WCAG 1.0 ( http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/) states: Guideline 1. Provide equivalent alternatives to auditory and visual content Provide content that, when presented to the user, conveys essentially the same function or purpose as auditory or visual content. ... 1.1 Provide a text equivalent for every non-text element (e.g., via alt, longdesc, or in element content). This includes: images, graphical representations of text (including symbols), image map regions, animations (e.g., animated GIFs), applets and programmatic objects, ascii art, frames, scripts, images used as list bullets, spacers, graphical buttons, sounds (played with or without user interaction), stand-alone audio files, audio tracks of video, and video. [Priority 1] I have two questions regarding images added via CSS. 1) I added an image for each bullet via CSS .box ul li. How do I specify alt text in this situation? Do I add alt text in the HTML...even though there would be no image if CSS was disabled? 2) What is the implication (what do I need to do) for purely presenation/aesthetic images? For example on my wife's microsite (that I built) http://phd.london.edu/ygrushkacockayne/ what do I need to do, if anything, for the gifs that form rounded corners on the boxes, via CCS on .box, box2 et cetera? Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WCAG conformance and checking
Yeah, the webdev toolbar for Firefox has direct links to the cynthiasays (WAI) checker and the section 508 checker along with some other useful tools so if you don't already have it, that's a must for all developers. http://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/ There's also a colour contrast analyzer that's pretty useful for Firefox here http://juicystudio.com/article/colour-contrast-analyser-firefox-extension.php I use these as an initial starting point for testing accessibility but as you've rightly pointed out, these won't guarantee accessibility so manual testing and common sense are much more important once you've performed these initial tests. Hope they help though. Dave http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 26/10/2007, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am on a mission to get the microsite that I built for my wife http://phd.london.edu/ygrushkacockayne/ to conform to W3C's Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0, available at http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/WAI-WEBCONTENT-19990505, level Double-A. I am reading http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT/ and http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/. I realize no automated checking is foolproof...but are there any good automated tools to assist in WCAG conformance checking? ( I hear cynthia mentioned from time to time...any good/any details? Any others? Any good Firefox extensions/plug-ins? Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
Sorry about that, the validator seemed to suggest that you had some image tags that weren't closed and that you were using instead of amp; but having validated it again, it appears fine. Strange. I've had problems with the WAI validator in Firefox sometimes as well, it seems that locally it has problems but once the page is online I tend to find it works alright. On 26/10/2007, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Dave, First off, thanks for the feedback. I do have the Firefox Web Developer tool bar...for some reason the toolsvalidate local accessibility seems to hang...possibly a firewall sisue..i will check on a different network. RE: http://phd.london.edu/ygrushkacockayne/index.html, you said... I would suggest running it through http://validator.w3.org as you've got a few errors (you're using an XHTML doctype so don't forget to close img tags as well as escaping ampersands). ;o) ...please can you elaborate? As far as I can tell this page is valid XHMTL STRICT 1.0. as per: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fphd.london.edu%2Fygrushkacockayne%2Findex.htmlcharset=%28detect+automatically%29doctype=Inlinegroup=0 Dave - I really do appreciate your time and trouble. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
It depends what you're using it for. If it's for black hat search engine tactics which will contain keywords then yes it's bad as it can get you completely banned from Google. If it's for hiding an element of the page which you'll then be displaying using either CSS or JavaScript then it's not neccesarily bad for search engines but can be bad for accessibility as screen readers will ignore it so you'd be better off using negative text indent or negative absolute positioning. It depends on what situation you're using it for but yes it can be bad if used wrongly. Thanks Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 29/10/2007, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I highly doubt that presentational styles will effect SEO. When you use display:none you are not removing the content from the source, you are just hiding it from users viewing the web page. If you was to remove the element from the source using DOM that would be different. James On 10/29/07, Tony Crockford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 29 Oct 2007, at 15:46, Simon Cockayne wrote: Hi, I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. Is this true* or did I dream it? *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. Google specifically caution against hiding text with CSS: http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=66353 is that what you meant? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS display: none has SEO impact?
As far as I'm aware, it's not something that Google will automatically ban a site for anyway but if it is being used for black hat tactics then the site is open to being reported by anyone (possibly a competitor) which Google may then do a manual check of and ban the site if they deem the site to be breaking their terms of use. If display: none; is being used for a legitimate purpose then I wouldn't worry about it but as I mentioned earlier, it can have a negative impact on accessibility so as with most things, it depends how and why you're using this method. Thanks Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 30/10/2007, Alexander Gounder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, The Fact is that SEOs use this CSS feature (display:none) for cloaking which is a Black Hat SEO technique. Further the whole idea of you showing something(h1-3 tags filled with Keywords) to Google or any Search bot and hiding these from you end user speaks very bad about your intentions... Instead if your using this for some other purpose and the effect of this can be viewed by the end user then its not considered cloaking and google is quite intelligent to know that but the same can't be said about other search engines. So you need to decide on this depending on where your traffic is coming from. Thanks Alexander, Web Designer and SEO in Mumbai, India http://www.ecreeds.com On 10/29/07, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am sure I read that CSS's display: none has a detrimental on SEO. Is this true* or did I dream it? *To clarify...I am keen to know if it is true that there is a detrimental impact...not whether it is true that I read it or not. Cheers, Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Rounded Courners .... Your Take
Hi Mike, I was considering using span's instead of div's for my example but was a little torn between the two as I'd usually use span's for their inline purpose in a block of text or for styling something within an inline element (when obviously a div would be invalid). I suppose in either case it's using the tag for something that it wasn't really meant for and as someone mentioned earlier is being misused slightly due to lack of a better alternative using CSS2.1 Your example does highlight the fact that I could probably do away with the topleft div in any case though as this could be applied to container div :o) Thanks Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 31/10/2007, Mike at Green-Beast.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can offer this simple method: http://mikecherim.com/experiments/css_smart_corners.php I prefer spans over divs because divs do have semantic value as divisions whereas span are like puffs of air in that they serve as nothing more than a hook for styles, etc. I'd rather offer a span to accept the background than a full div. That's my take on it anyway. Cheers. Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS/Accessibility question
Hi James, I'd always create a site and content so that it initially works and all the content can be reached using just HTML. It certainly won't look all that pretty but by making sure that everything works fine before you add CSS or JavaScript then you're ensuring that the site will be usable and accessible for any user agents that don't support them. Once this is in place, add CSS to spice up the presentation and then feel free to add any JavaScript to make the functionality and behaviour easier or to add a few dazzles but this shouldn't effect the core functionality of the site. The following article is a really good read and explains the ideas behind this http://accessites.org/site/2007/02/graceful-degradation-progressive-enhancement/ I suspect that you're thinking of using JavaScript to actually display content so you need to ask yourself, how will users on mobile devices of using a text browser read this content? Hope that helps. Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 01/11/2007, Likely, James A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am pretty new to this group but have been seeing all of the useful emails that have been sent over the past month and thought I would try my luck. I am working on a feature story box. I am trying to develop this using web standards but since this is fairly new to me, I thought that I would email and see if anyone has any suggestions on how to improve. My goal is to make this as accessible as possible to users with disabilities. Note that there is no JavaScript yet, this is just the demo. Once the JavaScript is in place, when the user rolls over the link, the main background image would change as well as the selected state of the link. http://internetworks.ca/james/feature/ Any feedback is welcome, good or bad! Thanks for taking the time to help! James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Request possible?
Hi Michael, The overall structure is probably how I'd tackle this but I do have a couple of suggestions. 1 - You don't really need the div for part4 as this seems to just be applying a margin which could be applied directly to #article. 2 - Within the part4infosmall div I wouldn't use a definition list for this as it simply looks like another sub heading and then a paragraph. I presume this is part of a page and is just to demonstrate the layout but there are other issues like no doctype or character set and the your using a heading 3 without 1 or 2 present but I presume this would be corrected in the final page? Obviously this would also include the inline style that you have for the margin on the body. Also you're declaring font-size in pixels but you need to use either em or a percentage value if you want the page to be accessible. You might find this useful to convert your sizes http://www.dave-woods.co.uk/?p=79 Other than that though, it's a relatively simple layout so should only really need a few div containers and then the relevant heading's applied along with paragraphs of text. Hope that helps. Cheers Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 06/11/2007, Michael Vogt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all. I received an request from a client, which I am not sure how to implement correctly. Would you please be so kind to have a quick look at it, and let me know what you think? A first implementation can be found here: html: http://michaelvogt.eu/flow.html css: http://michaelvogt.eu/flow.css At the bottom, of the page, you see the photoshop mock up. I have 2 questions: - is there a better way to do the html structure for this? - is there a way that only 2 lines of text are allowed above the small box? The other text should flow automatically around the box. Thanks a lot, Michael Vogt *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Social Networking Site Software / Script
Vanilla is definitely the most standards compliant forum software I've seen. If you wanted to go down the social networking/bookmarking site route then there's some software called pligg which I believe the likes of digg and sphinn use. http://www.pligg.com/ On 09/11/2007, Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 09-Nov-07, at 5:04 PM, Web Dandy Design wrote: Discussion Forums. Vanilla [1] seems to be an interesting project, which aims to be a standards-based discussion forum. I seem to remember having little difficulty in installing the software, though I haven't experimented with styling it yet. Best, - Rahul. [1] http://getvanilla.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Idiot's guide to JavaScript
I'm in a similar position and recently bought the Simply JavaScript book from SitePoint... it's easy to understand and all the books I've seen of theirs in the past have been up to date and use the latest standards so I presume I'm learning the correct way as apposed to following out of date and bad practice tutorials online. http://www.sitepoint.com/books/javascript1/?SID=8a6e5ef267535b16d9b4f5c5b54a008d Hope that helps. Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 13/11/2007, Kevin Lennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob Mason wrote: Hi guys, Am comfortable with HTML/CSS and accessibility in general, but struggle with JavaScript. I'm not a developer by trade, am a business type (sales and marketing) so most oft he stuff is well over my head. I am looking for a really basic, plain English guide to JavaScript. Either on or offline will do. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance Rob -- Rob Mason t/a Sponge Project www.spongeproject.co.uk [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1128 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 11:09 AM You may want to check out the book called Javascript for the world wide web visual quickstart guide. http://www.amazon.com/JavaScript-World-Wide-Web-Negrino/dp/0321423348/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1194984888sr=8-1 That is not an affiliate link but amazon has it for $12.99 plus shipping there. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE layout glitch on Blog
Looks like it's more likely to do with your use of the pre tag. Firefox is allowing the content to overflow into the other container whilst IE6 won't. The easiest fix would probably be to use some kind of overflow: auto; in that section of the page along with a width to force a scrollbar on any content that is wider than the left column. Hope that helps. Dave - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 14/11/2007, Simon Cockayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am not the owner of http://www.shield.on.ca/Blog/index.php ... But...I am puzzled as to why the navigation sidebar drops down below the blog content in IE 6...but appears fine and dandy (top right immediately below the header) in Firefox 2. Any ideas? I am thinking it is an IE double padding/margin type error...yes...no...yes?? Simon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Colors for web design
Hi, Principles of Beautiful Web Design is worth a read, not only for the information on colours and the theory behind is but there's also plenty of other useful design information especially for web developers who aren't from a design background. http://www.principlesofbeautifulwebdesign.com/ There's also plenty of colour combination websites about, only have this one in my bookmarks though... http://www.colorcombos.com/ Hope that helps. Dave - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 14/12/2007, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know a good online resource or book that discusses how to decide the best color combinations for use on the web. -- Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Definition List appropriate for FAQ?
Hi, Personally, I'd use heading's for the questions and paragraphs for the answers but that's down to my own preference and have seen it done a variety of ways. Cheers Dave - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 17/01/2008, Mike at Green-Beast.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Christian, I've been trying to decide which is more semantically correct for an FAQ [...] definition list is probably the most appropriate My vote is in favor of a DL. I feel it is absolutely the most appropriate element to use in such a case. Cheers. Mike Cherim http://green-beast.com Join Accessible Web Developers on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7010678585 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Where did I come from?
I completely agree with most of the comments so far. Why create functionality that is simply replicating the functionality of a browser? There was an article on text resizing a while ago that I'm sure most people are already aware of by Roger Johansson... http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200709/scrap_text_resize_widgets_and_teach_people_how_to_resize_text/ I'd consider text resizing quite advanced compared to using the back button so I personally think that trying to recreate this kind of functionality is actually a step backwards in trying to educate our users. - - - - - - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 18/01/2008, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 18 Jan 2008, at 17:23, Christian Snodgrass wrote: You shouldn't always assume that they are just trying to replace the back button. As assumptions go, when they say so I can create a button to go back to it..., it is a pretty safe one. And, not everyone knows about the back button. Don't assume... The back button should be one of the very first things people learn about when they are introduced to the web. If you suspect that your users do not, then creating a custom control that works only for your site instead of educating them about the software they use, is doing them a disservice. Additionally, an in page control marked back causes confusion since users don't know if it will act in the same way as their back button or go forward to the previous URL (which it is will alter the effect on the normal back button). -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Background images versus image
The first question I'd ask is why not just use check boxes instead of trying to replicate them? If you mark them up correctly then there's really no better accessible method than using the correct element as it was meant. If you go down this route then you're likely to create all kinds of problems for yourself... what happens when users don't have css available (mobile devices), images disabled (dialup users) or are using screenreaders. If you want to change the appearance then I'd use JavaScript to enhance the existing check boxes but for those user agents that don't support JavaScript or have it disabled you should have the fall back of regular forms. Hope that helps. - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 23/01/2008, Likely, James A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am working on a new site for a client and need some thoughts on a problem that I have. I am making a list with clickable boxes (like input boxes) that have a checked, disabled and clickable state. My question is, what would work best. Using background images or adding images to the code. The reason I ask is 1) If I use images, we can add alt text to describe what function the images have. This would help with screen readers and people with disabilities. 2) Background images keep the code clean but wonder about the alt text and how screen readers and people with disabilities would read the site. Is there a way to imitate the alt for background images? You can see an example of both ways at: Using images: *http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/list/list.html*http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/list/list.html Using background images: *http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/list/list2.html*http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/list/list2.html Let me know your thoughts and what you think would work best. I love the background images as the code is clean, but has any one done any testing to see how this would work for screen readers or do you have suggestions on how to make it more accessible? Thanks for the help. James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Background images versus image
What are the chances of that happening? I would think it would be very slim wouldn't it? You'd be surprised... I know a few dialup users who browse with images disabled to speed up loading times but leave CSS and JavaScript on so that the presentation and any enhanced functionality is still available. I agree that these types of users are in the minority but they do exist. On 25/01/2008, Likely, James A. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From all of the examples that I have seen this is the one that accommodates most users. How would a screen reader read this option? Has any one tested something similar to the example that I found? Thanks again for the help. James -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Snodgrass Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 1:03 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Background images versus image That isn't bad, but if you have Javascript and CSS, but no images, it fails completely. Likely, James A. wrote: Thanks for the emails. Some things I didn't think of but will from now on. I have been doing some reading and looking at options and found this example. http://www.chriserwin.com/scripts/crir/ What are your thoughts on this approach? To me it looks pretty user friendly. Please let me know as this is new to me. Thanks James *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Dave Woods *Sent:* Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:59 AM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* Re: [WSG] Background images versus image The first question I'd ask is why not just use check boxes instead of trying to replicate them? If you mark them up correctly then there's really no better accessible method than using the correct element as it was meant. If you go down this route then you're likely to create all kinds of problems for yourself... what happens when users don't have css available (mobile devices), images disabled (dialup users) or are using screenreaders. If you want to change the appearance then I'd use JavaScript to enhance the existing check boxes but for those user agents that don't support JavaScript or have it disabled you should have the fall back of regular forms. Hope that helps. - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 23/01/2008, *Likely, James A.* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am working on a new site for a client and need some thoughts on a problem that I have. I am making a list with clickable boxes (like input boxes) that have a checked, disabled and clickable state. My question is, what would work best. Using background images or adding images to the code. The reason I ask is 1) If I use images, we can add alt text to describe what function the images have. This would help with screen readers and people with disabilities. 2) Background images keep the code clean but wonder about the alt text and how screen readers and people with disabilities would read the site. Is there a way to imitate the alt for background images? You can see an example of both ways at: Using images: _http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/list/list.html_ Using background images: _http://wisconsin.joekiosk.com/list/list2.html_ Let me know your thoughts and what you think would work best. I love the background images as the code is clean, but has any one done any testing to see how this would work for screen readers or do you have suggestions on how to make it more accessible? Thanks for the help. James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Christian Snodgrass Azure Ronin Web Design http://www.arwebdesign.net/ http://www.arwebdesign.net Phone: 859.816.7955
Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree with Drew Mclellan when he said in his blog that old browsers must die. Using an HTML5 doctype will remove the need to include the meta tag. Using edge within the meta tag will also set IE8 to use the rendering engine for whatever the current version of IE is... what impact this will have on development remains to be seen as I don't think we can really comment until we've seen it in action. Is Microsoft going to pay me my time to add another tag to the head of every page on every clients site I've ever done? NOT So it won't happen, why should we spend even more time on MS screwups? Or am I misreading all this? You're misreading it slightly. Presumably you'll have tested your websites in IE7? Therefore when IE8 is released, all these websites should render exactly the same as IE7 by default, IE8 will use IE7's rendering engine unless you use one of the methods of triggering IE8 standards mode. I dont think adding another tag makes much sense.. I want my site accessible to lots of browsers .. not just freaking IE We'll need to support IE7 for a while yet anyway so will things change that much other than for the mean time just leaving out the meta tag and just ensuring that things work in the IE7 rendering engine (once IE6 users have ceased to exist). On 29/01/2008, varun krishnan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I dont think adding another tag makes much sense.. I want my site accessible to lots of browsers .. not just freaking IE Varun, http://varunkrish.com On Jan 29, 2008 6:41 PM, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Microsoft going to pay me my time to add another tag to the head of every page on every clients site I've ever done? NOT So it won't happen, why should we spend even more time on MS screwups? Or am I misreading all this? Bruce bkdesign - Original Message - From: Peter Mount [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:18 AM Subject: [WSG] This IE8 controversy Hi I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree with Drew Mclellan when he said in his blog that old browsers must die. -- Peter Mount Web Development for Business Mobile: 0411 276602 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.petermount.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
A better approach would be to switch to a more standards compliant browser like Firefox/Opera or Safari ;o) http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/ http://www.opera.com/ http://www.apple.com/safari/ (still appears to be in beta for windows though). If you're a web developer/designer, you should have those three plus IE6 and 7 for testing anyway ;o) If you don't have multiple systems to test on, then you can install multiple versions of IE by using... http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE Hope that helps. On 01/02/2008, kate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh dear me lol I am still on IE6 and so I guess jump a version. Kate Bichon Frisé http://jungaling.com/kynismarmissmillie/index.php Borneo http://julienne.wordpress.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] hello
Also, think about the important factors first when creating a website. Build something that satisfies the requirements, provides the function/content required, is accessible, usable and uses the latest web standards and if the site falls into the web2.0 category then so be it, if not then really who cares? On 12/02/2008, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a read of these for the official definitions or descriptions of web 2.0: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/tim/news/2005/09/30/what-is-web-20.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_2 A good slide show on the topic: http://www.andybudd.com/presentations/dcontruct05/ Or, sit down with some popcorn and watch a web 2.0 video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LzQIUANnHc HTH Russ on 12/2/08 11:07 PM, Gitanjali at wrote: Hello all! Can anybody help me in web 2.0 please *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Fwd: navaigation list rendered bad in ie
Hi Andrew,
As Thierry has pointed out, Zoom will fix this issue but you may want to
have a read of the following as it explains the reasons why...
http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
For fix width layouts, I'd usually tend to fix this by providing a width (in
your case width: 216px; on the anchor will do the same job as the zoom) but
there's various methods of solving the haslayout issue.
Cheers
Dave
- - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
On 14/02/2008, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Behalf Of Andrew WC Brown
Here's an image to the problem
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5567/iefirefoxlistcb1.jpg
Here's a link to the page
http://dutchakscrap.com/about.html
Hi Andrew,
Try this:
div.navigation a {zoom:1;}
As a side note, I don't see a need for that DIV, you could go with the UL
alone.
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Fwd: navaigation list rendered bad in ie
That'll work for IE6 but haslayout also exists in IE7 therefore either zoom
or applying a width would be the best fix ;o)
- - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
On 14/02/2008, aleagi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello there,
Try adding
* html div.navigation a {height: 1%;}
only for IE6...
I know there's a lot of people that don't like conditional comments,
but it can save A LOT of time.
Best Regards,
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 7:29 AM, Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Hi Andrew,
As Thierry has pointed out, Zoom will fix this issue but you may want to
have a read of the following as it explains the reasons why...
http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
For fix width layouts, I'd usually tend to fix this by providing a width
(in
your case width: 216px; on the anchor will do the same job as the zoom)
but
there's various methods of solving the haslayout issue.
Cheers
Dave
- - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
On 14/02/2008, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Behalf Of Andrew WC Brown
Here's an image to the problem
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5567/iefirefoxlistcb1.jpg
Here's a link to the page
http://dutchakscrap.com/about.html
Hi Andrew,
Try this:
div.navigation a {zoom:1;}
As a side note, I don't see a need for that DIV, you could go with the
UL
alone.
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] ie problem
Looks like the double margin bug.
Try changing this...
#navMain ul li a
{ margin:43px 35px 0 0;
border:1px solid black;
float:right; display:block;
}
to this
#navMain ul li a
{ margin:43px 35px 0 0;
border:1px solid black;
float:right; display:inline;
}
Hope that helps.
On 15/02/2008, kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
Im frustrated with a margin difference in ie6. Im modifying a zen cart
install and didnt create the style sheets and dont have much control
over the html.
The problem is the two links (log in and home) at the top right of the
page header. Ive added The borders just so you can see the boxes.
http://cart66.macdesign.eu/
heres the rules:
#navMainWrapper{margin-top:15px;
background-image: url(../../../../images/header.jpg);
background-repeat:no-repeat;
background-position:0 -21px;
_background-position:0 0;
border:0px solid pink;
height:65px;
padding-top:0;
margin-top:0;
padding-bottom:0;
}
#navMain ul li a
{ margin:43px 35px 0 0;
border:1px solid black;
float:right; display:block;
}
/*i think the problem is related to this rule*/
#navMain
{
border:1px solid pink;
display:block;
overflow:visible;
margin-bottom:0; height:1%;
}
I've been trying to figure this out for a long time and need help.
thanks
kevin
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Re: [WSG] Any way to defeat legend styling problems in IE?
I'm sure John won't mind me posting a link to his article on the subject... http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/articles/css/legends-of-style/ Hope that helps. 2008/2/28 Cole Kuryakin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello All - I've already spent a lot of time researching this and - from the threads I've read - there doesn't seem to be a solution for IE in particular. If you go here: http://www.crewasia.ph/index.php?cmd=s7,p2 in IE 6, you'll see that the question mark icon is held off of the left margin of the fieldset (and also displaying a small sliver of the fieldset's top border) which ISN'T as per design. If you look at the same page Firefox, this is the goal. As mentioned, my previous research has left me disheartened about a fix for IE... but then again, the posts I've been reading are well over a year old. Is there something I can do to the legend to make that question mark icon line up with the left border of the fieldset? Great appreciation, as always, in advance. Cole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Rogue text appears in IE6.
Try getting rid of the comments in your source code. I've not had chance to investigate your code thoroughly but that's usually what causes the duplicate character bug. I'm sure that there are other fixes for it but I personally find that if you've structured your markup correctly, indented nested elements and named classes/ID's sensibly then you shouldn't really need to use comments anyway. Cheers Dave http://www.dave-woods.co.uk On 03/04/2008, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've recently built a website trying to move towards more standards-compliant code. After the delight at pushing the site live my world 'caved in' (a little over-dramatic maybe) this morning when a colleague noticed rogue 'ls. text some way down the home page. Live site: http://www.londoncalling2008.com Screen-grab in IE6: http://www.flickr.com/photos/doos/2384241027/ Testing the site: IE7 - no problem FF2 - no problem Safari/PC - no problem Safari/Mac - no problem FF2/Mac - no problem ** IE6 - PROBLEM (http://www.flickr.com/photos/doos/2384241027/) Could anyone find an explanation for this? -- Rob Enslin http://enslin.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] seo / standards question
Go for the first option... h2section title/h2 ul liapage name 1/a/li liapage name 2/a/li ... /ul Google won't give anymore weight as it'll simply dilute the weight of all your h3 tags so only use them where they're relavant and where they are actually heading up contnet. I'd always advise creating your HTML for the users first and foremost using semantic markup. By all means consider what keywords/phrases to use but never abuse semantics in the hope that it'll benefit the search engines. Hope that helps. 2008/4/9 kevin mcmonagle [EMAIL PROTECTED]: hi, im generating a list of page links from my cms, its not really for a nav bar just a section of the site that has a number of related articles. im using h2 for the over all list label but am wondering what to use for the list break tags. right now im using li with the title of each page like this. h2section title/h2 ul liapage name 1/a/li liapage name 2/a/li ... /ul but im wondering if i should use h2's instead? would google give more importance to the h2s? plus it really is a list of page headings so i guess semantically it could go either way right? so either: h2section title/h2 h3apage name/a/h3 h3apage name2/a/h3 ... thanks in advance -kevin mcmonagle www.mcmonagledesign.com www.donegalimage.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Thumbnail Floats
Personally, I'd use overflow on the container to clear the float's and then
add width: 100%; to apply layout for IE7 and below.
div#innerContainer ul{margin: 0; padding: 0;* width: 100%; overflow: hidden;
*}
Hope that helps.
Dave
- - - - -
http://www.dave-woods.co.uk
2008/4/17 Frederick Matzen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I'm pretty much an amateur at this myself but it looks to me like you did
not use* .clearboth { clear: both; } *at the end of each row.
On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Chris Kennon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Attempting to get the results crafted here:
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/tutorial0407.htm
With lli and p elements, but have run into a snag. Would a dashing
standardista lend some CSS to the following template?
http://working.bushidodeep.com/spring_2008/template.html
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Frederick
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Re: [WSG] IE8 beta's a nightmare
Don't fix or change anything in your site to be compatible with a beta version. The beta version is available so that developers can report problems to Microsoft so that any bugs can be fixed for the final release. By changing your code now, you're likely to find that you'll need to change it again when the final release of IE8 is made available. If you're already getting a significant number of IE8 users (which is probably unlikely) then do as Rahul suggests and use the meta tag to force IE7 rendering mode. Hope that helps? Dave -- http://www.dave-woods.co.uk 2008/4/29 Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 29-Apr-08, at 12:40 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote: we just did some testing of our sites in IE8 beta and got some ahhhs and ohhhs - not because of its standard compliance, rather because all sites seem to be broken: logos disappeared, elements misplaced, Google maps blown up, etc. Dare I say: meta http-equiv=X-UA-Compatible content=IE=7 / Does that not give you enough time to fix the issues with the new layout engine and then remove it/set it to content=IE=8? Or have I misunderstood how IE works? I frequently do. Best, - Rahul. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE8 beta's a nightmare
* I've said it many times, MS try to outdo the competition and invent their own mad functions and methods of doing things. You have Mozilla that are promoting a standard and you have MS who are following (to some extent) the standard and also inventing their own.* Maybe a few years ago but Microsoft are following standards much better these days and pass the ACID2 test with IE8. * What developer on this planet is going to take advantage of a feature thats been put into IE and not Mozilla, or any other browser engine for that matter. Thats like giving one user one thing and another user another.* But that's exactly why Microsoft are having the problems that they are ;o) A lot of developers DID take advantage of features of IE during the browser wars and because so many intranet's and business critical applications now rely on these systems, businesses can't upgrade for fear of breaking them, hence the reason why IE6 is taking so long to disappear. I fully believe that Microsoft are heading in the right direction though and whilst I don't agree with everything that Microsoft have done in the past, they are taking the right steps to improve the browser and are at least listening to the developer community. As I mentioned earlier though... Internet Explorer 8 beta 1 is NOT the final release of the browser and it will hopefully have bugs fixed when the final release hits the market. Use it for browsing the web, having a look at your sites, using its new features and reporting bugs back to Microsoft but it shouldn't be used for the production of websites just yet. Thanks Dave - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk 2008/4/29 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ha Ha, i like name inferior explorer. Maybe someone should set up the domain name and allow people to comment on I.E for MS to see. I've said it many times, MS try to outdo the competition and invent their own mad functions and methods of doing things. You have Mozilla that are promoting a standard and you have MS who are following (to some extent) the standard and also inventing their own. What developer on this planet is going to take advantage of a feature thats been put into IE and not Mozilla, or any other browser engine for that matter. Thats like giving one user one thing and another user another. They are going to slice their own heads off. I hate to get into the Unix vs. Windows debate but for reasons like this and others related to MS inventing their own standards, Linux will eventually take over. Didn't MS try to invent their own version of XML, or something like that? I remember seeing a petition in college about it. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Sam Sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ideas stuff and various work right off the bat with ff and opera tweaking ie can go on for weeks and often requires loads of compromises the list of issues with ie browsers hurts my noggin I can't see m$ using geko though (it would be admitting the competition is better) I wish they would, shame it would be better for everyone should be forever reffered to as inferior explorer :) - S 2008/4/29 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Microsoft should save themselves all the hassle and use the Geko engine. There IE still gets shipped with every version of Windows. They have created a nice operating system for general users and by changing their engine to an open source one is not going to decrease sales in their O/S. This isn't the end of the IE bugs. I can put my house on it there will be more to come. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Sam Sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: looks like another quagmire is about to open up; funny how I still feel that I am getting over ie6 2008/4/29 Dave Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Don't fix or change anything in your site to be compatible with a beta version. The beta version is available so that developers can report problems to Microsoft so that any bugs can be fixed for the final release. By changing your code now, you're likely to find that you'll need to change it again when the final release of IE8 is made available. If you're already getting a significant number of IE8 users (which is probably unlikely) then do as Rahul suggests and use the meta tag to force IE7 rendering mode. Hope that helps? Dave -- http://www.dave-woods.co.uk 2008/4/29 Rahul Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 29-Apr-08, at 12:40 PM, Jens-Uwe Korff wrote: we just did some testing of our sites in IE8 beta and got some ahhhs and ohhhs - not because of its standard compliance, rather because all sites seem to be broken: logos disappeared, elements misplaced, Google maps blown up, etc. Dare I say: meta http-equiv=X-UA-Compatible
Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate
I've downloaded Firebug 1.1 Beta and it seems to work fine with Firefox 3 http://getfirebug.com/releases/ Hope that helps. - - - - - http://www.dave-woods.co.uk 2008/6/18 kate [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I hear about so many goodies on my lists I tried to dl Firebug (if our people like it its got to be awesome...hahaahah) But FF said it had a problem and would not allow in FF3. Glad you mentioned Firebug Jason - thanks! Kate - Original Message - *From:* Jason Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Sent:* Wednesday, June 18, 2008 1:32 PM *Subject:* Re: [WSG] Firefox 3 candidate It will replace it even if you install into different directory. :-( Then it means you are not going to have your FireBug available to work with. FF3 is very nice and I am excited. Just can't wait for FireBug to become compatible with it as it is so crucial for us of course. Regards, Jason www.flexewebs.com/semantix On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know if it will replace your version of Firefox 2, or will it run side by side?! Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1507 - Release Date: 6/18/2008 7:09 AM *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
