[WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it out...

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,

I'm hoping someone can see the obvious on the following page and tell me
where I've gone wrong;

http://vasco.brucehighway.com/reports-hierarchical-display.htm 
in Firefox it displays the totals on the right-hand side exactly where I
expect it to be. 
In Internet explorer the numbers are aligning to the document and not to the
relative positioned elements as in Firefox. 
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards, Taco Fleur


clickfindT
www.clickfind.com.au the new Australian search engine for businesses,
products and services . 




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RE: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it out...

[Taco Fleur]

The items are in a relative positioned element.
 
And yes you are right, the plus and minus will expand contract, which is why
I am using a list.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Karl Lurman
Sent: Friday, 15 June 2007 12:44 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it
out...


Not sure why this sort of tabular information isn't in a table? Tables are
not all evil... I suppose you are going to have "expanding/contracting" with
the plus button/icon.

Besides that though, you should look into the absolute positioning of some
of the elements you are putting on the page. 

You could always pull them back into line for IE6 alone:

left:auto !important; /* For reasonably standards based browsers */
left:-20px; /* For hideous non-standards based browsers */

Karl


On 6/15/07, Taco Fleur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Hello all,

I'm hoping someone can see the obvious on the following page and tell me
where I've gone wrong;

http://vasco.brucehighway.com/reports-hierarchical-display.htm
<http://vasco.brucehighway.com/reports-hierarchical-display.htm> 
in Firefox it displays the totals on the right-hand side exactly where I
expect it to be.
In Internet explorer the numbers are aligning to the document and not to the
relative positioned elements as in Firefox. 
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards, Taco Fleur


clickfindT
www.clickfind.com.au the new Australian search engine for businesses, 
products and services .




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RE: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it out...

[Taco Fleur]

Hi, thanks.

I'm not sure what  
"giving the parent  'layout' _might_ solve the issue."
means though?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Philippe Wittenbergh
Sent: Friday, 15 June 2007 1:06 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it
out...


On Jun 15, 2007, at 10:12 AM, Taco Fleur wrote:

> I'm hoping someone can see the obvious on the following page and tell 
> me where I've gone wrong;
>
> http://vasco.brucehighway.com/reports-hierarchical-display.htm
> in Firefox it displays the totals on the right-hand side exactly where 
> I expect it to be.
> In Internet explorer the numbers are aligning to the document and not 
> to the relative positioned elements as in Firefox.
Internet Explorer (6 but I've seen 7 acting up as well) doesn't know where
'right' is. It always computes that based on the nearest container that
'hasLayout' [1] and is positioned. In your case, I think it is  (I
haven't gone through all of your stylesheets).

giving the parent  'layout' _might_ solve the issue.

Why not a  ?

[1] http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
<http://emps.l-c-n.com>





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RE: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it out...

[Taco Fleur]

Hi,
 
that is correct, #result-tree .c-4 is absolute positioned within a relative
positioned element. To me, if you have a relative positioned element and you
put a absolute positioned element in there with right:0px I expect it to sit
right next to the relative positioned element, correct me if I am wrong?
 
Example;
 
  positioned relative
 
  Domain A
  345
  8
  353  positioned absolute
 
 
#result-tree ul li {
 clear: right;
 position: relative;
}
 
#result-tree .c-4 {
 right: 0px;
}

 
  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Karl Lurman
Sent: Friday, 15 June 2007 1:57 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it
out...


heh, funny, I see it as having absolute positioning within firebug when I
inspect one of the numbers in the very right column:


#result-tree .c-4 {reports-hierarchi... (line 102)
right: 0px;
}
#result-tree .c-2, #result-tree .c-3, #result-tree .c-4
{reports-hierarchi... (line 81)
position: absolute;
top:0pt ;
}
p span {text.css (line 7) 
color:#0099CC;
font-weight:bold;
}

Remember that firebug is showing the real-time cascade of the .c-4 styles.
Get firebug if you don't have it! It sometimes helps you diagnose greater
issues in all browsers, even if its a firefox-only extension. 

In terms of the expanding/contracting feature determining if its a table or
a list: I actually believe it is safe to have this kind of UI feature within
a table cell, and the data still be tabular in nature. The expand/contract
is simply offering more detailed information for that particular cell of a
particular row. 

The added semantic benefits of a table might be worth your while, besides
the fact that it will make the implementation of your css/xhtml far easier
and be visually consistent over more browsers (thinking older 5.0 browsers
here too).

With regards to that, I got a YAHOO javascript error on IE6 while trying to
expand/contract, which indicates to me that whoever is implementing the
client side is using YUI. That might not be the best choice if you are
concerned with older browsers, Yahoo have pretty much written off version 5
browsers... 

Regards,
Karl


On 6/15/07, Philippe Wittenbergh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 


On Jun 15, 2007, at 10:12 AM, Taco Fleur wrote:

> I'm hoping someone can see the obvious on the following page and
> tell me
> where I've gone wrong;
>
> http://vasco.brucehighway.com/reports-hierarchical-display.htm
> in Firefox it displays the totals on the right-hand side exactly
> where I
> expect it to be.
> In Internet explorer the numbers are aligning to the document and 
> not to the
> relative positioned elements as in Firefox.
Internet Explorer (6 but I've seen 7 acting up as well) doesn't know
where 'right' is. It always computes that based on the nearest 
container that 'hasLayout' [1] and is positioned. In your case, I
think it is  (I haven't gone through all of your stylesheets).

giving the parent  'layout' _might_ solve the issue. 

Why not a  ?

[1] http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
<  <http://emps.l-c-n.com> http://emps.l-c-n.com>





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RE: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it out...

[Taco Fleur]

Sorry,

It does not ring a bell on this side.

What do you mean by 'hasLayout', I don't use that as a class or id name and
I have no idea what else it could be? Probably the only person who doesn't
get it, sorry...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Philippe Wittenbergh
Sent: Friday, 15 June 2007 1:59 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it
out...


On Jun 15, 2007, at 12:26 PM, Taco Fleur wrote:

> I'm not sure what
> "giving the parent  'layout' _might_ solve the issue."
> means though?
Maybe this translation works better:
"Triggering 'hasLayout' on the parent  _might_ solve the issue"

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
<http://emps.l-c-n.com>





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RE: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it out...

[Taco Fleur]

Sorry missed that link, thought it was part of the signature. Will check
this all out now. Cheers. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Thierry Koblentz
Sent: Friday, 15 June 2007 2:14 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it
out...

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
> I'm not sure what
> "giving the parent  'layout' _might_ solve the issue."
> means though?

Philippe posted a link that explains this:
http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html

But I believe it is the DIV that needs to have layout, try this:
div {zoom:1}

---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com






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RE: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it out...

[Taco Fleur]

I just wanted to say that this suggestion indeed fixed the problem. Thanks. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Philippe Wittenbergh
Sent: Friday, 15 June 2007 1:06 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Difference between IE and Firefox - can't figure it
out...


On Jun 15, 2007, at 10:12 AM, Taco Fleur wrote:

> I'm hoping someone can see the obvious on the following page and tell 
> me where I've gone wrong;
>
> http://vasco.brucehighway.com/reports-hierarchical-display.htm
> in Firefox it displays the totals on the right-hand side exactly where 
> I expect it to be.
> In Internet explorer the numbers are aligning to the document and not 
> to the relative positioned elements as in Firefox.
Internet Explorer (6 but I've seen 7 acting up as well) doesn't know where
'right' is. It always computes that based on the nearest container that
'hasLayout' [1] and is positioned. In your case, I think it is  (I
haven't gone through all of your stylesheets).

giving the parent  'layout' _might_ solve the issue.

Why not a  ?

[1] http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
<http://emps.l-c-n.com>





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[WSG] final layout issues in IE

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,
 
thanks for the help on the previous issue that was solved by adding
'hasLayout' as suggested by Philippe Wittenbergh.
I have one final layout issue to wrap this project up
http://vasco.brucehighway.com/reports-hierarchical-display.htm
I'm hoping someone can identify it or at least in the right direction.
http://vasco.brucehighway.com/_resource/style/reports-hierarchical-display.c
ss

The tree functionality displays perfectly in Firefox when expanding a
selection, however in Internet Explorer it becomes a mess, with some
elements not moving down and staying in place.

I know some people suggested a table layout for this tree structure. For me
the most logical mark-up was a  list since it had to be indented etc. I
could not change it halfway through.

BTW: The page validates correctly.

Thanks in advance.



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[WSG] Images not showing on the MAC (JavaScript issue)

[Taco Fleur]

Hi all,

I hope its not off-topic, it is after all to do with user friendliness.

I'm using some JavaScript to hide any images that have not loaded properly
or are missing. I don't like seeing the red crosses on a site, it looks
unprofessional.

http://www.sellmystuff.com.au/buystuff/generalstuff/parent-category.cfm?cate
goryIdentity=1

The problem is that on the MAC it removes all images like they have not
loaded properly. It only removes the ones within the HTML, not those placed
by CSS.

Following is the code used to check, obviously isLoadedImage always seems to
return false on the MAC for some reason. Would anyone know why?

function isLoadedImage( obj ) {
 if (!obj.complete) {
  return false;
 }
 if ( typeof obj.naturalWidth != "undefined" && obj.naturalWidth == 0 ) {
  return false;
 }

return true;
}

function checkImage() {
 for ( var i = 0; i < document.images.length; i++ ) {
  if ( !isLoadedImage( document.images[ i ] ) ) {
   document.images[ i ].style.visibility = "hidden";
  }
 }
};
myWindow.doAddOnloadListener( checkImage );

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards, Taco Fleur




clickfindT
www.clickfind.com.au the new Australian search engine for businesses,
products and services . 




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[WSG] Call for site check

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,
 
We have a huge website using CSS that is going out the door next month, and
it is ready for testing after the 15th. This application is to go against
some of the big search engine giants out there ran by large communication
corporations (you know the ones I mean).

Anyone interested can register for testing on http://www.clickfind.com.au/
 
Last time I made cash available for testers, however, for most people it was
more the fun of being able to find holes/bugs that we did not! This time
we'll offer a 6 month listing worth $119.70 for every bug/layout* concern
found.

Anyone interested can find a PDF with demo pages on
http://www.clickfind.com.au/Clickfind-demo1.pdf and register for testing by
submitting your email on http://www.clickfind.com.au/ or sending me an email
on [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

We will provide more details closer to the testing.
 
Thanks and looking forward hearing from you.

*layout/css issues are to be accompanied with a full fix, any other issues,
like application errors etc. can be reported on their own



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RE: [WSG] Site check please

[Taco Fleur]

> Without even trying to be "obsessive compulsive" I can report that there
is not enough room for the form labels on my end, so several of them wrap.

Would you be able to post a link to the form in question?

Thanks



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[WSG] Site check please

[Taco Fleur]

site check please www.clickfind.com.au 


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RE: [WSG] Site check please

[Taco Fleur]

Sorry, I meant: Can the more obsessive compulsive members of the group,
check our new site for problems please? :)
www.clickfind.com.au 



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RE: [WSG] Site check please

[Taco Fleur]

Hmm, seems like the DNS has not delegated yet, it was supposed to redirect
to http://testing.clickfind.com.au:777  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Taco Fleur
Sent: Friday, 23 November 2007 8:56 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Site check please

Sorry, I meant: Can the more obsessive compulsive members of the group,
check our new site for problems please? :) www.clickfind.com.au 



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RE: [WSG] Site check please

[Taco Fleur]

Thanks.

> It is a little difficult to read. 
Can you elaborate on the above? 

> The fonts scale well. The overall look is nice. But color on color is
sometimes a difficult trick to pull off.

> Hozriontal overlap when fonts are scaled on this page:


What's the size of the font, and what screen size?

Cheers



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[WSG] Validation questions

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,

I have some validation issues presented to me by http://validator.w3.org and
I'm hoping someone can shed a bit more light on them.

I have an error where it says "document type does not allow element "OL"
here"
The ol tag is within a  I don't understand, is this not
allowed?

I have an error where it says "end tag for element "P" which is not open."
The  tag is actually within javascript, within the 

RE: [WSG] Validation questions

[Taco Fleur]

Hi, yes, am using STRICT doctype
OK, if I understand this correctly, all I need to do to fix it is surround
it with a DIV.

Cheers 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bryan GARNETT-LAW
Sent: Tuesday, 27 November 2007 2:21 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Validation questions

Are you using a STRICT doctype?  If so,  tags can only contain block
level elements.

http://24ways.org/2005/transitional-vs-strict-markup



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RE: [WSG] Validation questions

[Taco Fleur]

Hi,

> This sounds like one of those 'its much easier if you show us the code' 
things :)

Yes, its development, don't want Google to pick up on it.

> Move the '' into the js too.

It needs to be inline due to coding framework used, the following is the
code:
if ( myArray.length == 0 ) {
myTarget.innerHTML = 'No suggestions found';
return false;
}

> Perhaps have 'openThingy' and 'closeThingy' functions?




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RE: [WSG] Validation questions

[Taco Fleur]

Hi,

No actually not using XHTML. It's STRICT 4.01 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christian Montoya
Sent: Tuesday, 27 November 2007 3:11 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Validation questions

On Nov 26, 2007 10:34 PM, Taco Fleur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have an error where it says "end tag for element "P" which is not open."
> The  tag is actually within javascript, within the 

[WSG] display issue in IE7

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,

Would anyone have any idea what causes the display issue with the line that
start with "with..." right underneath PayPal?
http://www.clickfind.com.au/power-search.cfm

The page validates by the way.

Thanks in advance.



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RE: [WSG] display issue in IE7

[Taco Fleur]

Hi Kepler,

You're a legend. Wonder why I put that in there in the first place...

Thanks

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kepler Gelotte
Sent: Thursday, 29 November 2007 6:24 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] display issue in IE7

Hi Taco,

Try getting rid of the "HEIGHT: 3em" from:

FORM#search-main LI {
CLEAR: left; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM:
0.5em; PADDING-TOP: 0.5em; HEIGHT: 3em
}

In power.css

Regards,
Kepler

-Original Message-----
From: Taco Fleur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:21 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] display issue in IE7

Hello all,

Would anyone have any idea what causes the display issue with the line that
start with "with..." right underneath PayPal?
http://www.clickfind.com.au/power-search.cfm

The page validates by the way.

Thanks in advance.



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RE: [WSG] display issue in IE7

[Taco Fleur]

You wouldn't happen to know why (again in IE7) on
http://development.clickfind.com.au:777/
The states overlap the row below when expanding "OR click to search by
state" 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kepler Gelotte
Sent: Thursday, 29 November 2007 6:24 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] display issue in IE7

Hi Taco,

Try getting rid of the "HEIGHT: 3em" from:

FORM#search-main LI {
CLEAR: left; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM:
0.5em; PADDING-TOP: 0.5em; HEIGHT: 3em
}

In power.css

Regards,
Kepler

-Original Message-
From: Taco Fleur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:21 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] display issue in IE7

Hello all,

Would anyone have any idea what causes the display issue with the line that
start with "with..." right underneath PayPal?
http://www.clickfind.com.au/power-search.cfm

The page validates by the way.

Thanks in advance.



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[WSG] [OT] Free 3 months listing on clickfind for all web design businesses on WSG

[Taco Fleur]

 
 
Hello all,

We are offering a free 3 month listing on www.clickfind.com.au as an
appreciation to all WSG members (most of you helped with building the site
in some way). Thanks!



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[WSG] list image not showing properly

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,

I have a problem where the list image is not showing properly

form#search-main .li1 {
background: url(/_resource/image/form/step_1.gif) top left
no-repeat;
}

I realize this is not exactly assigning an image to the list item, but I
went down that path before, and it didn't work out either.

The problem I am having now is that in IE7 it doesn't display well when I
specify a height of 3em (see below) and the content is larger than that.

form#search-main li {
height: 3em; <<<
padding: 0.5em 0 0.5em 50px;
clear: left;
}

The css is on
www.clickfind.com.au/_resource/style/layout/search/default.css

In the end I'll accept any suggestion that displays the numbered icons in
the same position they are now, but not causing problems elsewhere.

Thanks in advance..



clickfindT 1300 859 179
www.clickfind.com.au the new Australian search engine for businesses,
products and services . 




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RE: [WSG] list image not showing properly

[Taco Fleur]

Hi John,

Sorry, forgot, it is www.clickfind.com.au  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Hancock
Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 11:57 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] list image not showing properly 

Hi Taco,

Have you got a link to the page you're trying to fix this on?

Regards,

John Hancock
Identity

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Taco Fleur
Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 12:51 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] list image not showing properly 

Hello all,

I have a problem where the list image is not showing properly

form#search-main .li1 {
background: url(/_resource/image/form/step_1.gif) top left
no-repeat; }

I realize this is not exactly assigning an image to the list item, but I
went down that path before, and it didn't work out either.

The problem I am having now is that in IE7 it doesn't display well when I
specify a height of 3em (see below) and the content is larger than that.

form#search-main li {
height: 3em; <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
padding: 0.5em 0 0.5em 50px;
clear: left;
}

The css is on
www.clickfind.com.au/_resource/style/layout/search/default.css

In the end I'll accept any suggestion that displays the numbered icons in
the same position they are now, but not causing problems elsewhere.

Thanks in advance..



clickfindT 1300 859 179
www.clickfind.com.au the new Australian search engine for businesses,
products and services . 




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[WSG] padding on the bottom ;-)

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,

I have this issue with two layouts that have some padding issue at the
bottom. 
 
In internet explorer
http://www.clickfind.com.au/browse-business-sub-category.cfm?categoryIdentit
y=270

The results (the box above the filter) have this padding at the bottom which
I can't seem to get rid of.
Having the same issue with another layout, but in FireFox >
http://www.clickfind.com.au/ the 3 panels at the bottom of the page.

Any help is appreciated.



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RE: [WSG] padding on the bottom ;-)

[Taco Fleur]

 Thanks Philippe,

That fixed the issue. Although I can't seem to get the space I want at the
bottom. I guess I'll have to live with that. Cheers.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Philippe Wittenbergh
Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 5:59 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] padding on the bottom ;-)


On Dec 7, 2007, at 4:31 PM, Taco Fleur wrote:

> Having the same issue with another layout, but in FireFox > 
> http://www.clickfind.com.au/ the 3 panels at the bottom of the page.

The issue is also visible in Safari and Opera 9.5b, if what you mean a a
kind of vertical lines under those 3 boxes.

That comes from the margin on the  that is collapsing through the divs
(div#box-1-c p, div#box-2-c p, div#box-3-c p {... margin-bottom:  
0.5em;})
Set the margin to 0 and that issue disappears.

That is the correct behaviour, btw.



Philippe
---
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<http://emps.l-c-n.com>





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RE: [WSG] padding on the bottom ;-)

[Taco Fleur]

Hi,
 
tried that, it didn't work, it made the issue worse.
 
cheers.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ? ??
Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 6:13 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] padding on the bottom ;-)


Hello



In internet explorer
http://www.clickfind.com.au/browse-business-sub-category.cfm?categoryIdentit
y=270

The results (the box above the filter) have this padding at the bottom which
I can't seem to get rid of.


Try 'padding' instead of 'margin', i.e.
ul#result li {
...
padding: 1em 0 1em 0;
...
}
instead of
{
...
margin: 1em 0 1em 0;
...
}
If I need some padding at the top and/or bottom I use padding. Usually it
works in IE/Win 


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RE: [WSG] padding on the bottom ;-)

[Taco Fleur]

I've tried the same thing here that Philippe suggested, but removing the
padding on
ul#result p.link {
 background: url(/_resource/image/result/bg_summary_b.gif) left bottom
no-repeat;
 padding: 0 0 0.2em 22px;
 height: 29px;
}
still did not do the trick.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ? ??
Sent: Friday, 7 December 2007 6:13 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] padding on the bottom ;-)


Hello



In internet explorer
http://www.clickfind.com.au/browse-business-sub-category.cfm?categoryIdentit
y=270

The results (the box above the filter) have this padding at the bottom which
I can't seem to get rid of.


Try 'padding' instead of 'margin', i.e.
ul#result li {
...
padding: 1em 0 1em 0;
...
}
instead of
{
...
margin: 1em 0 1em 0;
...
}
If I need some padding at the top and/or bottom I use padding. Usually it
works in IE/Win 


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[WSG] linking to images with //

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,
 
quick question; we signed up for scanalert.com and been given some HTML code
to place a icon on our search engine www.clickfind.com.au 
 
I placed the code on the pages without really paying attention to it, after
a while I discovered the image was linked as
src="//images.scanalert.com/meter/www.clickfind.com.au/12gif"
 
I never seen this before, but it worked! I changed it to
src="http://images.scanalert.com/meter/www.clickfind.com.au/12gif";
and now it doesn't seem to load anymore, for an example see:
http://www.clickfind.com.au/about-clickfind.cfm right next to Yahoo Web
Service the scanalert icon should load.
 
I have no idea whether the way they linked to the image is valid, does
anyone know? I guess if it is, linking to the images that way would overcome
any issues with linking to an image over HTTP or HTTPS
 

Kind regards, Taco Fleur


  _  

clickfindT 1300 859 179
www.clickfind.com.au <http://www.clickfind.com.au/>  the new Australian
search engine for businesses, products and services . 



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RE: [WSG] linking to images with //

[Taco Fleur]

Well, thats the question here.
 
It seems to work without in some browsers (if I'm not mistaken).
 
 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of kate
Sent: Friday, 1 February 2008 8:31 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] linking to images with //


Hi,
Should'nt that be

RE: [WSG] linking to images with //

[Taco Fleur]

>In the other discussion it was more around how to deal with http and https
CSS images references when the image was remote. The accepted solution goven
by all was to use two different CSS files. My friend Ryan Joy noted
(http://www.atxryan.com/2008/01/22/breaking-with-protocol/
) that using this '//' solved the issue in that it assumes whatever protocol
being used by the delivered server.

That's what I thought it would be useful for as well. The question still
remains; does it work in all browsers? I guess we've cleared up the fact
that it is allowed to reference to an image like this.



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RE: [WSG] linking to images with //

[Taco Fleur]

Do you check your logs for 404s?

Like I said, when I published the code as they presented it, I got some 404
errors from browsers looking for the image on our domain.  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Cummiskey
Sent: Friday, 1 February 2008 9:46 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] linking to images with //

Anders Nawroth wrote:

> 
> "//" in the beginning of the URI says this is a network path.
> I have no idea of how the browser support for this is, or how they 
> choose to interpret it.


scanalert/hackersafe publishes their badges with the  method.

I've yet to see a problem with it.



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RE: [WSG] linking to images with //

[Taco Fleur]

On a different note:
Just been speaking with ScanAlert, I tried to get them to understand that
their code does not validate since they used oncontextmenu, and border="0" -
I got a response saying that W3C standards is not widely accepted! 
 
Microsoft is not using it, Google is not using it and all other big
companies are not using it in the US. Apparently they did a lot of research
on this! I had to laugh, but then again, who am I, I could be wrong and they
could be right... Maybe Google and the rest really don't care, I personally
don't think so, but I'm just following the crowd! ;-)
 

Kind regards, Taco Fleur


  _  

clickfindT 1300 859 179
www.clickfind.com.au <http://www.clickfind.com.au/>  the new Australian
search engine for businesses, products and services . 





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RE: [WSG] linking to images with //

[Taco Fleur]

ooh sorry, I thought it had to do with standards...
My apologies. Thread closed.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adam Martin
Sent: Friday, 1 February 2008 11:17 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] linking to images with //


Can we please keep the discussions on topic, lately there have been a number
of threads having nothing to do with standards
Cheers
Adam


On Feb 1, 2008 10:04 AM, Taco Fleur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Do you check your logs for 404s?

Like I said, when I published the code as they presented it, I got some 404
errors from browsers looking for the image on our domain.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Cummiskey
Sent: Friday, 1 February 2008 9:46 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] linking to images with //

Anders Nawroth wrote:

>
> "//" in the beginning of the URI says this is a network path.
> I have no idea of how the browser support for this is, or how they
> choose to interpret it.


scanalert/hackersafe publishes their badges with the  method.

I've yet to see a problem with it.



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RE: [WSG] linking to images with //

[Taco Fleur]

This is interesting!

Are saying it should be src="://images.scanalert.com. Instead of
src="//images.scanalert.com ?

I have not tested it in any other browser than i.e6 and firefox 2

The only reason I found out about the way it was coded was because I got a
report of 404 errors, so I'm thinking you might be right in regards to it
working in some browsers and not in others. 

I got a few 404 errors like
http://www.clickfind.com.au//images.scanalert.com. So I'm guessing the
browser did not detect the schema there.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Ellis
Sent: Friday, 1 February 2008 8:45 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] linking to images with //

Hi
It's a bit difficult to work out what is going one given the image itself
seems to be a 1x1 transparent gif. You may find that your browser is
blocking these as they most likely represent "web bugs", causing the issue
you see.

the HTML spec redirects URI info to RFC2396. In section "3. URI Syntactic
Components" it gives a URI syntax as "://?"
Further in on section 3.1 it reads:
"Relative URI references are distinguished from absolute URI in that
   they do not begin with a scheme name.  Instead, the scheme is
   inherited from the base URI, as described in Section 5.2."

So, you may actually be finding that a URI without a scheme is inheriting
from the "base URI". Section 5.1.3 describes how a base URI could be
constructed from the retrieval URI, which I am reading that if no scheme is
present the document scheme is used (http / https / ftp / scp etc etc).

That being said, this is only an RFC so any support of it may be a fluke.
Did you test the issue over various browsers or just one?

HTH
james



On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:01:03 am Taco Fleur wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> quick question; we signed up for scanalert.com and been given some 
> HTML code to place a icon on our search engine www.clickfind.com.au
>
> I placed the code on the pages without really paying attention to it, 
> after a while I discovered the image was linked as 
> src="//images.scanalert.com/meter/www.clickfind.com.au/12gif"
>
> I never seen this before, but it worked! I changed it to 
> src="http://images.scanalert.com/meter/www.clickfind.com.au/12gif";
> and now it doesn't seem to load anymore, for an example see:
> http://www.clickfind.com.au/about-clickfind.cfm right next to Yahoo 
> Web Service the scanalert icon should load.
>
> I have no idea whether the way they linked to the image is valid, does 
> anyone know? I guess if it is, linking to the images that way would 
> overcome any issues with linking to an image over HTTP or HTTPS
>
>
> Kind regards, Taco Fleur
>
>
>   _
>
> clickfindT 1300 859 179
> www.clickfind.com.au <http://www.clickfind.com.au/>  the new 
> Australian search engine for businesses, products and services .
>
>
>
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> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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[WSG] use of in

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,
 
I've been wondering about this for a while, just hesitated to ask (as it
could be a stupid question).
 
I've always been using  within  (example, see state list on
www.web-designers-australia.com) 
However, I see many people use a list without  tags, and style the text
within the list item by creating a duplicate style of the paragraph tag.
Just wondering, what is the way to go?
 
Thanks


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RE: [WSG] use of in

[Taco Fleur]

This email was sent before an update of the site and the old version did not
contain a list on the front-page (just incase someone was wondering;-)
It's now updated, and has the example list on the front-page.

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Taco Fleur
Sent: Monday, 11 February 2008 12:31 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] use of  in 


Hello all,
 
I've been wondering about this for a while, just hesitated to ask (as it
could be a stupid question).
 
I've always been using  within  (example, see state list on
www.web-designers-australia.com) 
However, I see many people use a list without  tags, and style the text
within the list item by creating a duplicate style of the paragraph tag.
Just wondering, what is the way to go?
 
Thanks

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RE: [WSG] use of in

[Taco Fleur]

Hi Tim,
 
What I mean by duplicate style is that if I assigned color: red, font-size:
0.8em to the  tag, I will have to assign the same style to my  tags
to make sure they look the same.
 
OK, general consensus so far is, it's ok to put it in, but preferred to
leave them out and style the  tag separately.
 
Thanks
 

Kind regards, Taco Fleur


  _  

clickfindT 1300 859 179
www.clickfind.com.au <http://www.clickfind.com.au/>  the new Australian
search engine for businesses, products and services . 


  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim MacKay
Sent: Monday, 11 February 2008 1:14 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] use of  in 



Hi Taco,

 

In the case of the example you provided I'd say definitely no need for the
nested  tag. The  tags are enough to describe the content inside them
- they are items in a list. I don't see how it is a duplicate style of the
 tag either, in my experience it is good practice to style your lists
differently than your paragraphs.

 

Hope this helps,


Best Regards,


Tim

 



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RE: [WSG] use of in

[Taco Fleur]

Hi,

OK, but a paragraph is a paragraph, right? So why not mark it up as one
(even if it's only one)? 

I think from the responses it appears that there is no wrong or right, just
a personal preference ;-)

In my example (http://www.web-designers-australia.com/) the states are
probably not a paragraph, I just hate styling them again ;-)

Definition of paragraph: A paragraph is a section in a piece of writing,
usually highlighting a particular point or topic. It always begins on a new
line and usually with indentation, and it consists of at least one sentence.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Faulds
Sent: Monday, 11 February 2008 1:28 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] use of  in 

I'd say the only time you need to use paragraphs inside list items is when a
list item's content is made up of more than one paragraph.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:13:54 +1000, Tim MacKay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




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RE: [WSG] use of in

[Taco Fleur]

Not sure if I fully understand, I think you mean;
Assign the paragraph style to a HTML tag that is surrounding all other tags?
If so, I would not feel comfortable with that.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Faulds
Sent: Monday, 11 February 2008 2:02 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] use of  in 

If you apply the style to the container, then you don't need to assign
styles individually to different elements (except where you want them to be
different).

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:22:52 +1000, Taco Fleur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi Tim,
> What I mean by duplicate style is that if I assigned color: red,
> font-size:
> 0.8em to the  tag, I will have to assign the same style to my  
> tags to make sure they look the same.
> OK, general consensus so far is, it's ok to put it in, but preferred 
> to leave them out and style the  tag separately.
> Thanks
>
> Kind regards, Taco Fleur
>
>
>   _
>
> clickfindT 1300 859 179
> www.clickfind.com.au <http://www.clickfind.com.au/>  the new 
> Australian search engine for businesses, products and services .
>
>
>   _
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf Of Tim MacKay
> Sent: Monday, 11 February 2008 1:14 PM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: RE: [WSG] use of  in 
>
>
>
> Hi Taco,
>
>
> In the case of the example you provided I'd say definitely no need for 
> the nested  tag. The  tags are enough to describe the content 
> inside them
> - they are items in a list. I don't see how it is a duplicate style of 
> the  tag either, in my experience it is good practice to style your 
> lists differently than your paragraphs.
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
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Ph: (07) 3300 3303
Mb: 0405 678 590


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RE: [WSG] use of in

[Taco Fleur]

> Why not? If this is your HTML:

I would not do it because you'll end up with having to override styles, it's
not clear to other developers who come in on the project, it becomes a mess.
But that might be personal preference again ;-)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Faulds
Sent: Monday, 11 February 2008 2:59 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] use of  in 

> Assign the paragraph style to a HTML tag that is surrounding all other 
> tags?
> If so, I would not feel comfortable with that.

Why not? If this is your HTML:


some text

some text



This

.content {
color: red;
font-size: 1em;
line-height: 1.5
}

makes more sense and is more concise than

p {
color: red;
font-size: 1em;
line-height: 1.5
}

li {
color: red;
font-size: 1em;
line-height: 1.5
}

Although I spose you could do

p, li {
color: red;
font-size: 1em;
line-height: 1.5
}

But there may be cases where you want to apply a style to more than two or
three elements, so it makes more sense to target them with a style on the
container.

-- 
Tyssen Design
http://www.tyssendesign.com.au
Ph: (07) 3300 3303
Mb: 0405 678 590


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[WSG] floats not wrapping

[Taco Fleur]

Hello,
 
does anyone know how I can stop floats from wrapping (not sure if thats the
right word for it).
Best way to explain it is by going to the following page and resize the
browser to something smaller than 800px
http://www.clickfind.com.au/advertise-online.cfm
 
Once you do that, the right side float starts to go below the first float,
which is really not what I want to happen, the browser should just show the
horizontal scrollbar when the browser is resized.
 
Would adding a whitespace:nowrap somewhere do the trick? And if so, what
kind of support does that have? 
Maybe I should lay the page out differently?
 
Thanks in advance.


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RE: [WSG] floats not wrapping

[Taco Fleur]

Thanks Blake... Thinking about it now, pretty stupid question of me. For the
life of me, I could not think of a solution, but funny enough, in the past I
have used this before..

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Blake
Sent: Friday, 15 February 2008 10:31 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] floats not wrapping

Add a width to the containing element to 'brace' the page so that it can't
shrink below the width of the container element. Make sure that width is
wide enough to accomodate the floated layout as you want it.

Regards,
Blake

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Taco Fleur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> does anyone know how I can stop floats from wrapping (not sure if 
> thats the right word for it).
> Best way to explain it is by going to the following page and resize 
> the browser to something smaller than 800px 
> http://www.clickfind.com.au/advertise-online.cfm
>
> Once you do that, the right side float starts to go below the first 
> float, which is really not what I want to happen, the browser should 
> just show the horizontal scrollbar when the browser is resized.
>
> Would adding a whitespace:nowrap somewhere do the trick? And if so, 
> what kind of support does that have?
> Maybe I should lay the page out differently?
>
> Thanks in advance.
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RE: [WSG] keep to the standards of the standards list

[Taco Fleur]

First: I don't think there is one solution that pleases everyone. 
 
Personally, I think people should loosen up a bit on this list. I see most
posts move on topic at some stage.
 
Don't like the post, don't read it. I'm subscribed to 100's of mailing lists
and scan through the subjects, pick out what is interesting, reply if I want
to, if it's crap I ignore it. Why crack a fuss about it in the open.
 
I think more people leave the list because they are scared to say something
on it without getting flamed...
 
My two cents anyway... waiting for the flames... ;-)
 

Kind regards, Taco Fleur

  _  

 <http://www.clickfind.com.au/> www.clickfind.com.au find Australian
businesses, products and services

blog: http://australiansearchengine.wordpress.com
<http://australiansearchengine.wordpress.com/> 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Ortenzi
Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2008 6:06 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] keep to the standards of the standards list


Thank you Matt 

The value of a specifically defined list is adherence to that set of
definitions. Let's hold to the _standards_ of the list as much as we can
please. Although, saying that, I find it good to be helpful... so am one of
the goodwill exploitees, yes.

One thing though, in the desire to hold to standards, conflicts arise in the
creation of code, so we DO have to occasionally debug in order to solve,
don't we?

Joe

On Feb 15 2008, at 11:52, Matt Fellows wrote:


With no offense intended to the list moderators, I feel the usefulness of
this mailing list is diminishing due to an increase in irrelevant and lazy
postings. 

The majority of people on this list are genuine web developers, who care for
the future of the Web and the place Web Standards has in it. But there seems
to be a small number of people who think they can simply post their problems
to this list without consulting any other reference.

Basic CSS problems, PHP syntax and even spam help are just a sample of some
of these questions that can, and should be either found quickly by a number
of popular resources or even a quick search in Google. Instead, they lazily
exploit the goodwill of many in this list who are kind enough to visit their
site and fix their problems.

With the number of these increasing there is no wonder why people are
leaving this list (and publicly doing so).

Out on a limb here - does anybody else feel the same? If so, do you have a
suggestion as to how we can better the quality of the list? 

Matt



On 2/15/08, John Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Please can this be closed? It's far off any standards related topic.




Possibly the only thing I can see as a relevant part of the 'Web 2.0
movement' is the abstraction of the presentational information from data on
a page, which isn't being discussed here.




If posting an off-topic message, please at least mark it as such so the rest
of us can hit the delete button without checking it first for relevant
information!




Kind regards,




John Hancock

Identity




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Ortenzi
Sent: Friday, 15 February 2008 6:32 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] hello


That's art, Kat, design is different.

And design is a significant part of the web.



On Feb 12 2008, at 22:52, Katrina wrote:


kevin mcmonagle wrote:

yes its a buzzword mostly but from a design standpoint its also a genre.

That's an interesting thought. Is Web 2.0 larger than the web itself? Has it
become an art movement/period, in the same way as Modernism, Post-Modernism,
Humanism, Impressionism, etc?


Kat



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Joe Ortenzi

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www.joiz.com




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[WSG] Business Directory review and comparison, usability, accessibility

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,
 
I've compiled a comparison and short review for 4 Australian Business
Directories, the document can be downloaded from the link below
http://australiansearchengine.wordpress.com/2008/02/21/business-directory-re
view-and-comparison/
 
Yes, I own one of them, but I believe I stayed objective. 
 
The reason for posting here is to make sure it is objective, and I will take
onboard any suggestions, additions, correct any information that is
incorrect and will complete any missing information if provided. And I will
also include (or even fix) any negative feedback for clickfind, if any.
 
I'd also like to add more information about accessibility and usability to
the document, which is also one of the reasons for posting here.
 
I'd like to include the contact details and link in the document from people
who are contributing to the document to make it more credible.
 
Thanks.
 

Kind regards, Taco Fleur


  _  

clickfindT 1300 859 179
www.clickfind.com.au <http://www.clickfind.com.au/>  the new Australian
search engine for businesses, products and services . 

 


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Re: [WSG] Standard for "committing" changes to a database?

[Taco Fleur]

Interesting; we're going through the same process here. There is talk about
converting the "view" pages to editable pages that commit the changes right
away. I'm completely against it. I think it will bring along with it lots of
issues;

- when you have text fields that are 20 in size, and the text is 40
characters it will be cutting of the text.
- same thing applies to textareas
- I believe more people will be viewing the records without needing to make
modifications, therefore the main objective should be to make the layout as
good as possible

My opinion is that separate pages for each action is better than trying to
fit all the functionality in one.


On 4/10/08, Jessica Enders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone
>
> I am currently reviewing a desktop application that involves mostly
> viewing and changing records in a database (via a nice GUI front end).
>
> In some places, changes are "committed" as soon as you enter them, a bit
> like how Microsoft Access operates. In other places, the user has to
> specifically "save" to commit changes, like MYOB.
>
> Any opinions on when one approach should be used over the other and
> whether the inconsistency matters?
>
> Thanks in anticipation,
>
>
> Jessica Enders
> Director
> Formulate Information Design
> 
> http://formulate.com.au
> 
> Phone: (02) 6116 8765
> Fax: (02) 8456 5916
> PO Box 5108
> Braddon ACT 2612
> 
>
>
>
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>


-- 
Kind regards,
Taco Fleur
clickfind™ - The new Australian search engine


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[WSG] input type image

[Taco Fleur]

I have a question in regards to styling a submit button.

I have the following HTML


Please note: I'm more than happy for the HTML markup to change, to
achieve the desired effect.

Following is the CSS I used, which I hoped would change the image, but
it doesn't.

input#btnGo {
background: url(/proximer/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg)!important
top left no-repeat;
}

Would it be acceptable to just use a input of type "submit" and leave
the value empty?


-- 
Kind regards,
Taco Fleur
clickfind™ - The new Australian Online Marketing Platform (OMP)
http://www.clickfind.com.au


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Re: [WSG] input type image

[Taco Fleur]

That looks like it did the trick, had to pull the button up a bit with
position: relative;
top: -3px;
I'm not sure why.

Anyways, I ended up with

button#btnGo {
background: url(/proximer/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg) top
left no-repeat;
border: none;
width: 26px;
height: 20px;
cursor: pointer;
position: relative;
top: -3px;
}
button#btnGo span {
position: relative;
left: -3000px;
}

Cheers

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Chris Knowles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Taco Fleur wrote:
>>
>> I have a question in regards to styling a submit button.
>>
>> I have the following HTML
>> > src="/certainedge/_resource/generic/image/btn_go.jpg" alt="GO">
>>
>> Would it be acceptable to just use a input of type "submit" and leave
>> the value empty?
>
> you could use:
>
> 

[WSG] 1px difference between IE and FireFox

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,
 
I'm hoping someone can shed some light on the following issues which I
cannot seem to resolve
http://www.onlinemarketingplatform.com.au/
In Internet Explorer there is a 1px difference in the evolution image, this
is to the right of the text "Business marketing is evolving", if you compare
this screen with firefox you'll see that in firefox it looks exactly as it
should.
 
Stylesheet for the index page
http://www.onlinemarketingplatform.com.au/_resource/style/specific/index.css
The issue is within the h3 element (there is only one on that page).
 
Furthermore, on that same page there is a "find out how" button to the
bottom right, in IE this aligns to the center of the  element, but in
Firefox it does not. I would like it centered.
 
Thanks in advance.
 

Kind regards, Taco Fleur (CIO/CEO/Founder)

  _  

Find Australian businesses, products and services on
<http://www.clickfind.com.au/> www.clickfind.com.au

Blog: http://australiansearchengine.wordpress.com
<http://australiansearchengine.wordpress.com/> 

 

This email (which includes any attachments) has been sent on behalf of
Commerce Engine Pty Ltd or its Associated Entities (hereinafter called
"clickfind"). The information contained in this communication may be
privileged and confidential.  If you are not the intended recipient, any
use, disclosure or copying of this communication is expressly prohibited.
If you have received this E-mail in error, please delete it immediately.
Clickfind does not warrant or represent that this E-mail (including any
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Confidentiality and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of
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RE: [WSG] 1px difference between IE and FireFox

[Taco Fleur]

thanks for the prompt reply.

The cause of this problem is something I've never encountered in my 14 years
of web dev, this is amazing to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Cheers

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent: Monday, 13 October 2008 6:10 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] 1px difference between IE and FireFox

Taco Fleur wrote:
> http://www.onlinemarketingplatform.com.au/ In Internet Explorer there  
> is a 1px difference in the evolution image.

IE6 doesn't like odd numbers so it rounds off 'height: 135px' on h3 to 134px
- making the h3 1px too short.

IE7 handles odd numbers better so it gets the height right, but it places
the h3 itself 1px too high - at least relative to the body-background.

Suggest you cut IE some slack (or bug-space) by making the image 1px shorter
that the h3. Will at least make it appear right in those buggers.

> Furthermore, on that same page there is a "find out how" button to the 
> bottom right, in IE this aligns to the center of the  element,  but 
> in Firefox it does not. I would like it centered.

Add...

p.findOutHow a {margin: 0 auto;}

...to center across browser-land.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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[WSG] button name present and some CSS issues

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,
 
I just published a site that has some strange behaviour.
 
As far as I know, the name of a submit button (name=") is only passed on to
the receiving end when that button is actually clicked. 
I've always worked that way, maybe I've always worked with  and now that I'm using  I'm discovering that they
work differently? Would anyone be able to shed some light on this?
 
The problem is that on the server-side I check to see what button is present
and based on that I perform an action like going back for example. For some
reason in Internet Explorer ALL button names are now passed along when the
form is submitted.
 
http://gabba2.unidapsolutions.com.au/buy-now.cfm
 
 
Display issue, in Internet Explorer the "continue" button at the bottom of
the form is showing only partially. I've tried several things to get it to
display fully, does anyone have any suggestions here?
http://gabba2.unidapsolutions.com.au/buy-now.cfm
 
Thanks in advance
 
Cheers
 

Kind regards, Taco Fleur (CIO/CEO/Founder)

  _  

Find Australian businesses, products and services on
<http://www.clickfind.com.au/> www.clickfind.com.au

www.onlineadvertisingplatform.com.au
<http://www.onlineadvertisingplatform.com.au/>  

Blog: http://australiansearchengine.wordpress.com
<http://australiansearchengine.wordpress.com/> 

 

This email (which includes any attachments) has been sent on behalf of
Commerce Engine Pty Ltd or its Associated Entities (hereinafter called
"clickfind"). The information contained in this communication may be
privileged and confidential.  If you are not the intended recipient, any
use, disclosure or copying of this communication is expressly prohibited.
If you have received this E-mail in error, please delete it immediately.
Clickfind does not warrant or represent that this E-mail (including any
attached files) is free from electronic viruses, faults or defects.
Confidentiality and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of
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Re: [WSG] button name present and some CSS issues

[Taco Fleur]

Thanks Thierry,

Indeed the problem lies with IE6.

"It gets worse though, Internet Explorer 6 has a further bug where it will
treat all  elements as successful controls, and submit their data to
the server, even if they were not clicked. This effectively makes using
multiple button elements impossible."

Back to using  buttons for now.

The *position: relative* trick also worked.

thanks a lot.

-- 
Kind regards,
Taco Fleur
clickfind™ - The new Australian Online Marketing Platform (OMP)
http://www.onlinemarketingplatform.com.au
http://www.clickfind.com.au


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[WSG] Mysterious background dis-appearing

[Taco Fleur]

Hello all,
 
I was wondering if anyone would know why the background on our site is
initially not there and after a few refreshes it appears and then doesn't go
away anymore (which is just how I would like it from the start).
 
Website
http://www.executiveresults.com.au/index.cfm
 
Thanks in advance
 

Kind regards, Taco Fleur (Marketing)

  _  

Boot Camps, Personal Training, Corporate Sport Events and Fitness Holidays

www.executiveresults.com.au <http://www.executiveresults.com.au/>  

www.bootcampthailand.com <http://www.bootcampthailand.com/> 

 

This email (which includes any attachments) has been sent on behalf of
Executive Results or its Associated Entities. The information contained in
this communication may be privileged and confidential.  If you are not the
intended recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this communication is
expressly prohibited.  If you have received this E-mail in error, please
delete it immediately. Clickfind does not warrant or represent that this
E-mail (including any attached files) is free from electronic viruses,
faults or defects.  Confidentiality and legal privilege are not waived or
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RE: [WSG] Mysterious background dis-appearing

[Taco Fleur]

Hi,
 
Yes, you might well be right and the Col. scared the image away ;-)
 
> the background image may have been afraid that Colonel Anna was gonna
break
him in two. :)
 
> Are you seeing this in any particular browser? it looked ok in my firefox.
 
The problem appeared on any page at  
http://www.executiveresults.com.au/ in IE7, Firefox3 and IE6, I tried IE6 on
another machine than mine. And the white under the logo just wasn't there
until doing a few refreshes, I now noticed that was not the only thing, the
image replacement also did not work initially. It's almost as if the browser
did not see part of the stylesheet. I say "part" as it must see some of it
as there is a layout.
 
I don't understand how a refresh could fix it, the whole stylesheet is
either not there at all, or its there, not just a little bit...
 

Kind regards, 

  _  


Find Australian businesses, products and services on
 www.clickfind.com.au

www.onlineadvertisingplatform.com.au
  

Blog: http://australiansearchengine.wordpress.com
 

 

This email (which includes any attachments) has been sent on behalf of
Commerce Engine Pty Ltd or its Associated Entities (hereinafter called
"clickfind"). The information contained in this communication may be
privileged and confidential.  If you are not the intended recipient, any
use, disclosure or copying of this communication is expressly prohibited.
If you have received this E-mail in error, please delete it immediately.
Clickfind does not warrant or represent that this E-mail (including any
attached files) is free from electronic viruses, faults or defects.
Confidentiality and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of
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[WSG] Duplicate buttons

[Taco Fleur]

Title: Message



I have been putting 
duplicate buttons on one form when its a long form, so the user does not have to 
scroll.
I have been told its 
not good for accessibility, what's the go? 
 
Taco 
Fleur
Tell me and I will forgetShow me and I will rememberTeach me and 
I will learn 
 

[WSG] Problem with alignment..

[Taco Fleur]

Title: Problem with alignment..






I have this issue, where I have a table on a page, this table is to big to display on one page, so it's cut off and continued on the next page when printing, but on this next page it's vertically aligned in the middle, while I need it to align to the top. If that makes any sense?

I have page breaks in the page (if that matters any) like so,  also tried the  equivalent.

example
---
[table]
[table]
[table]
[table]
[table]
---
--- 

[cut off table] 

--- 

I need it like
---
[table]
[table]
[table]
[table]
[table]
---
---
[cut off table] 




--- 



Taco Fleur
07 3535 5072

Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn

RE: [WSG] Problem with alignment..

[Taco Fleur]

   Goal 1
<not discussed>
  
  
  

Goal 2
<not discussed>
  
  
  

Goal 3
<not discussed>
  
  
  

Goal 4 10%
Goal 1 
xThis is a test. Department goals... This is a test. Department goals... This is a 
test. Department goals... This is a test. Department goals... This is a test. 
Department goals... This is a test. Department goals... This is a test. Department 
goals... This is a test. Department goals... This is a test. Department goals... This 
is a test. Department goals... dd

Employee
Goal 1 This is a test. Department goals... This is a test. 
Department goals... This is a test. Department goals... This is a test. Department 
goals... This is a test. Department goals... This is a test. Department goals... This 
is a test. Department goals... This is a test. Department goals... This is a test. 
Department goals... This is a test. Department goals... dd

Manager

  
  
Employee: Most 
of the Time   Manager: Most of the Time 
  Agreed: Most of the Time
  
  
  

Goal 5
<not discussed>
  
  
  
How did I display my commitment to TQ Values?
  
  
  
  
Relationship & Service
Employeetest 8 comments here.. test 5 comments 
here.. test 5 comments here.. test 5 comments here.. test 5 comments here.. test 5 
comments here.. test 5 comments here.. 
Managertest 8 comments here.. test 5 comments 
here.. test 5 comments here.. test 5 comments here.. test 5 comments here.. test 5 
comments here.. test 5 comments here.. 
  
  
How often am I doing this?
  
  
Employee: Most of the 
Time   Manager: Seldom   Agreed: 
Most of the Time
  
  
  
General comments from my third meeting
  
  
qqq
  




Fourth Meeting

  
 
What are my 
Goals?
What activities did I undertake to achieve my Goals?
  
  
  
<none 
discussed>
  
  
  
How did I display my commitment to TQ Values?
  
  
  
  
<none 
discussed>
  
  
  
General comments from my fourth meeting
  
  
qqq
  





  
  



Me Date



My Team Leader/Manager/Director Date



Next Level Manager Date



  


 


-Original Message-
From: Ben Bishop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 15 October 2003 11:03 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Problem with alignment..


Hi Taco,

Do you have an example of your page that we could access?
I don't get the vertical centering of a continued table in Firebird and IE6.

regards,

Ben
Farcry + Aura: Power & Style
http://leorex.com/products/aura/



Taco Fleur wrote:

> I have this issue, where I have a table on a page, this table is to 
> big to display on one page, so it's cut off and continued on the next 
> page when printing, but on this next page it's vertically aligned in 
> the middle, while I need it to
>


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[WSG] Style to create input field look?

[Taco Fleur]

Title: Style to create input field look?






What would be the CSS to create the default look of an input box?


Taco Fleur
07 3535 5072

Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn

RE: [WSG] Style to create input field look?

[Taco Fleur]

What I meant was, how to recreate the default look of the input field. For example 
take a input field and do not apply any CSS to it, that it the look I want to recreate 
exactly the same. And not by not applying a style to it.

If that makes any sense?

-Original Message-
From: Glenn Slaven [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 10 November 2003 10:50 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Style to create input field look?



Taco Fleur wrote:

> What would be the CSS to create the default look of an input box?
>
> *Taco Fleur
> 07 3535 5072*
> Tell me and I will forget
> Show me and I will remember
> Teach me and I will learn
>
Um, well it depends what you want the default to be :)

The syntax would be

input, textarea
{
...(insert code here)
}

(Not forgetting the textarea if you're using it)
I usually start with

input, textarea
{
font-family : courier;
color : #00;
background-color : transperant;
}

cheers

-- 
Glenn

"Religion and science are opposed, but only in the same sense as that in which my 
thumb and forefinger are opposed - and between the two, one can grasp everything" - 
Sir William Bragg.

http://glenn.typepad.com/news/


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RE: [WSG] Style to create input field look?

[Taco Fleur]

That would be Windows and IE6

-Original Message-
From: Mathew Patterson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 10 November 2003 11:05 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: [WSG] Style to create input field look?



Different browsers and operating systems will have different
default ways of presenting input fields, so you will never be
able to match all occurrences with one style.

Did you have a target browser/os combination?

Mat.

-Original Message-----
From: Taco Fleur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

What I meant was, how to recreate the default look of the input field. For
example take a input field and do not apply any CSS to it, that it the look
I want to recreate exactly the same. And not by not applying a style to it.

If that makes any sense?
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RE: [WSG] Style to create input field look?

[Taco Fleur]

No just real input fields.

-Original Message-
From: Glenn Slaven [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 10 November 2003 11:11 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Style to create input field look?



Taco Fleur wrote:

>What I meant was, how to recreate the default look of the input field. For example 
>take a input field and do not apply any CSS to it, that it the look I want to 
>recreate exactly the same. And not by not applying a style to it.
>
>If that makes any sense?
>  
>
Hmm, ok sorry, I misunderstood you there

Are you wanting to apply this to something other than an input field 
(like a div) to make it look like an input field? 

-- 
Glenn

"Religion and science are opposed, but only in the same sense as that in which my 
thumb and forefinger are opposed - and between the two, one can grasp everything" - 
Sir William Bragg.

http://glenn.typepad.com/news/


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RE: [WSG] Style to create input field look?

[Taco Fleur]

this one did the trick, cheers.

-Original Message-
From: Lindsay Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 10 November 2003 11:27 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Style to create input field look?



Taco Fleur wrote:

> What I meant was, how to recreate the default look of the input
> field. For example take a input field and do not apply any CSS to it,
> that 
> it the look
> I want to recreate exactly the same. And not by not applying a
> style to it.

try:

input {
border: 2px inset threedface;
background-color: window;
color: windowtext;
}

-- 
 Lindsay Evans.
 Developer,
 Red Square Productions.

 [p] 8596.4000
 [f] 8596.4001
 [w] www.redsquare.com.au

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RE: [WSG] Style to create input field look?

[Taco Fleur]

aayhh I told a lie, it's still not the same...
The top and left part look the same, but the rest is not.

The bottom and right of a default box are 1px gray and then 1px white ;-)

-Original Message-
From: Taco Fleur 
Sent: Monday, 10 November 2003 12:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Style to create input field look?



this one did the trick, cheers.

-Original Message-
From: Lindsay Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 10 November 2003 11:27 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Style to create input field look?



Taco Fleur wrote:

> What I meant was, how to recreate the default look of the input
> field. For example take a input field and do not apply any CSS to it,
> that 
> it the look
> I want to recreate exactly the same. And not by not applying a
> style to it.

try:

input {
border: 2px inset threedface;
background-color: window;
color: windowtext;
}

-- 
 Lindsay Evans.
 Developer,
 Red Square Productions.

 [p] 8596.4000
 [f] 8596.4001
 [w] www.redsquare.com.au

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RE: [WSG] Style to create input field look?

[Taco Fleur]

Other 
question: if a windows XP style is applied to the input field by the OS can CSS 
override it?
 
If I 
want exactly the same effect as the default style on the input field, i.e. 


1. 
left 1px R128 G128 B128
2. top 
1px R128 G128 B128

3. 
left 1px R64 G64 B64
4. top 
1px R64 G64 B64

5. bottom 1px R212 G208 
B200
6. right 1px R212 G208 
B200

7. bottom 1px R255 G255 
B255
8. right 1px R255 G255 
B255
 
But only want 6 and 8 to red, can it be 
achieved?
 
Or did I lose everybody again? 
;-)
 
And I was aware that you can't alter the 
SELECT box, which is a real 
bummer!
 

  -Original Message-From: James Ellis 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, 10 November 2003 
  1:26 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] 
  Style to create input field look?Windows XP or 
  otherwise?XP themes determine the style of button and widgets... 
  styling them with CSS will alter buttons but not drop down widgets.This is 
  in contrast to Safari which doesn't allow you to alter the default button aqua 
  style (to my knowledge).I'm a bit lost here as well. If you don't want 
  to style the fields and widgets then don't put a selector against them - this 
  will allow windoze to set the default 
  style?CheersJamesTaco Fleur wrote:
  this one did the trick, cheers.

-Original Message-
From: Lindsay Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, 10 November 2003 11:27 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Style to create input field look?



Taco Fleur wrote:

  
What I meant was, how to recreate the default look of the input
field. For example take a input field and do not apply any CSS to it,
that 
it the look
I want to recreate exactly the same. And not by not applying a
style to it.

try:

input {
	border: 2px inset threedface;
	background-color: window;
	color: windowtext;
}

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[WSG] Modify class

[Taco Fleur]

Title: Modify class






Is it possible to modify the attribuites of a CLASS dynamically?


In other words, I now have a page with 200 objects on it, 20 of them are of CLASS:helpHidden, when help is clicked I now loop over all objects in the page and see if the object is of CLASS:helpHidden, if so then change the class to helpDisplay, obviously this takes a while and to me it looks like there should be a better way of doing it. Like for example change the properties of the class itself, for example;

CLASS:help


{

    visibility: hidden;

    display: none;

}


When HELP is clicked change the attributes of the class to 


{

    font-weight: bold;

    font-size: 14px;

    color: red;

    cursor: help;

    display: inline;

    visibility: visible;

}




Taco Fleur
07 3535 5072

Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn

RE: [WSG] Modify class

[Taco Fleur]

Starting to look interesting!

Would that overwrite the "display:none" or just add it?

At least I got something to go on now, has anyone ever tried this?

Cheers Ben..

-Original Message-
From: Ben Bishop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 9:10 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Modify class



Hi Taco,

Off the top of my head (and untested) I'd try something like:


.help {
display:none;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 14px;
color: red;
cursor: help;
}


...

Regards,
Ben


Taco Fleur wrote:

> Is it possible to modify the attribuites of a CLASS dynamically?
> In other words, I now have a page with 200 objects on it, 20 of them 
> are of CLASS:helpHidden, when help is clicked I now loop over all 
> objects in the page and see if the object is of CLASS:helpHidden, if 
> so then change the class to helpDisplay, obviously this takes a while 
> and to me it looks like there should be a better way of doing it. Like 
> for example change the properties of the class itself, for example;
>


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RE: [WSG] Modify class

[Taco Fleur]

Title: Modify class



Hi 
Lindsay,
 
That 
seems to work like a dream, that must speed up my help function like by 90%, 
cheers all...
 
Taco
 

  -Original Message-From: Lindsay Evans 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 
  9:13 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [WSG] 
  Modify class
   
  Hi 
  Taco,
   
  That 
  sounded like a challenge, so I came up with this:
  http://lindsay.f2o.org/experiments/css/dynamic_class.html
   
  Works in FB 0.6.1, IE 4.01, 5.01, 5.5 & 6 on 
  WinXP
   
  It 
  is a bit kludgy in that you have to specify indexes for your stylesheet & 
  CSS rule, but it is just a quickie :)
   
  One 
  other way would be to change the className of a parent element and use 
  inheritance to specify the different states. This way is probably a better way 
  to go, IMHO.
   
  -- Lindsay Evans. Developer, Red 
  Square Productions. [p] 8596.4000 [f] 
  8596.4001 [w] www.redsquare.com.au
  
-Original Message-----From: Taco Fleur 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2003 
9:43 AMTo: Web Standards Group (E-mail)Subject: [WSG] 
Modify class
Is it possible to modify the attribuites of a 
CLASS dynamically? 
In other words, I now have a page with 200 
objects on it, 20 of them are of CLASS:helpHidden, when help is clicked I 
now loop over all objects in the page and see if the object is of 
CLASS:helpHidden, if so then change the class to helpDisplay, obviously this 
takes a while and to me it looks like there should be a better way of doing 
it. Like for example change the properties of the class itself, for 
example;
CLASS:help 
{ 
    visibility: hidden; 
    display: none; } 
When HELP is clicked change the attributes of the 
class to 
{ 
    font-weight: bold; 
    font-size: 14px; 
    color: red;     
cursor: help; 
    display: inline; 
    visibility: visible; } 

Taco Fleur07 3535 5072 
Tell me and I will forgetShow me and I 
will rememberTeach me and I will learn 

RE: [WSG] Modify class

[Taco Fleur]

OK after your pointers I got the brain in gear (and found stuff I never thought was 
possible)

I ended up writing the following

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd";>


Contacts System - Tourism Queensland





function replaceRule( objStyle, className, newClassName )
{
var r = objStyle.rules
for ( var i = 0; i < r.length; i++ )
{
if( r[i].selectorText == className )
{
objStyle.removeRule( i );
objStyle.addRule( className, newClassName, i );
return;
}
}
}




test

 
Click on any item to display help.



(This is a short version of the page)
The brain is out of juice now and can't figure out how to *easily* restore the old 
class.
Any bright ideas?
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[WSG] Modify class (hope to bring closure ;-)

[Taco Fleur]

Title: Modify class



Hi 
Guys,
 
I just 
wanted to touch the subject again, as it did not bring closure to my problem 
last time, ie. most of you pointed me in the right direction but I 
still don't have it working fully, Lindsay; your example did display the 
hidden items but it did not hide them again.
 
I came 
up with the following, which also displays the hidden items but again it does 
not hide them.
 

function replaceRule( objStyle, 
className, newClassName )
{
 var r = objStyle.rules
 for ( 
var i = 0; i < r.length; i++ )
 {
  if( 
r[i].selectorText == className 
)
  {
   objStyle.removeRule( i 
);
   objStyle.addRule( className, newClassName, i 
);
   return;
  }
 }
}
test Click on any item to display 
help.
I was 
also thinking maybe it's easier (if possible) to have two classes like 
so;
 
.international { visibility: hidden; display: none; 
}
 
.national {
 visibility: visible; display: inline;}
 
and 
then do something like switchRule( document.styleSheets[0], '.international' , 
'.national' )
But 
how? There doesn't seem to be much documentation out there about dynamic 
stylesheets, or a nice PDF Reference, like Netscape brought out for Client-Side 
_javascript_ Reference

RE: [WSG] Modify class (hope to bring closure ;-)

[Taco Fleur]

Nope that won't help, thanks anyway..

It's only for one object, ie. the object with an id assigned.

-Original Message-
From: Cade Whitbourn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 2:44 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Modify class (hope to bring closure ;-)



Not sure if this will help, but it's a solution I copied from Zeldman quite a while 
back...
 

function toggle( targetId ){
  if (document.getElementById){
target = document.getElementById( targetId );
 if (target.style.display == "none"){
  target.style.display = "";
 } else {
  target.style.display = "none";
 }
   }
}

 
Show

Hello!
[Hide]


Cade.

> Hi Guys,
>  
> I just wanted to touch the subject again, as it did not bring closure to > my 
> problem last time, ie. most of you pointed me in the right direction > but I still 
> don't have it working fully, Lindsay; your example did > display the hidden items 
> but it did not hide them again.
>  
> I came up with the following, which also displays the hidden items but > again it 
> does not hide them.
>  
> 
> 
> function replaceRule( objStyle, className, newClassName )
> {
>  var r = objStyle.rules
>  for ( var i = 0; i < r.length; i++ )
>  {
>   if( r[i].selectorText == className )
>   {
>objStyle.removeRule( i );
>objStyle.addRule( className, newClassName, i );
>return;
>   }
>  }
> }
> 
> 
> test
> 
>  Click on any item to display help.
> 
> I was also thinking maybe it's easier (if possible) to have two classes > like so;
>  
> .international {
>  visibility: hidden;
>  display: none; }
>  
> .national {
>  visibility: visible;
>  display: inline;}
>  
> and then do something like switchRule( document.styleSheets[0], > '.international' , 
> '.national' )
> But how? There doesn't seem to be much documentation out there about > dynamic 
> stylesheets, or a nice PDF Reference, like Netscape brought out > for Client-Side 
> JavaScript Reference
> 

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RE: [WSG] Modify class

[Taco Fleur]

Here is the final result, it works like a dream, much quicker than any other 
hide/display script..
Just thought I'd share it with you...

function fnSwitch( objStyle, className )
{
var r = objStyle.rules
for ( var i = 0; i < r.length; i++ )
{
if( r[i].selectorText == className )
{
r[i].style.visibility = (r[i].style.visibility == 'hidden')  ? 
'visible' : 'hidden';
r[i].style.display = (r[i].style.display == 'none') ? 'inline' 
: 'none';
return;
}
}
}

fnSwitch( document.styleSheets[0], '.national' );
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RE: [WSG] Modify class (hope to bring closure ;-)

[Taco Fleur]

Here it is guys, thought I'd share it with you...

I reckon its a beauty, and works much quicker than any other hide/display function.. 
(yeah I know only IE)

function replaceRule( objStyle, className )
{
var r = objStyle.rules
for ( var i = 0; i < r.length; i++ )
{
if( r[i].selectorText == className )
{
r[i].style.visibility = (r[i].style.visibility == 'hidden')  ? 
'visible' : 'hidden';
r[i].style.display = (r[i].style.display == 'none') ? 'inline' 
: 'none';
return;
}
}
}

replaceRule( document.styleSheets[0], '.national' );

-Original Message-
From: >>> Vaska Design [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 November 2003 8:03 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Modify class (hope to bring closure ;-)



> Nope that won't help, thanks anyway..

Switchmenu from Dynamic Drive?  Seems to work very well for me...

if (document.getElementById){  //DynamicDrive.com change
document.write('\n')
document.write('.submenu{display: none;}\n')
document.write('\n')
}

function SwitchMenu(obj){
if(document.getElementById){
var el = document.getElementById(obj);
var ar = 
document.getElementById("masterdiv").getElementsByTagName("div");
//DynamicDrive.com change
if(el.style.display != "block"){  //DynamicDrive.com change

// by commenting the next four lines out you are telling the script to keep
submenus open when/if you select another submenu - otherwise, the script
will only allow one submenu open at a time...

//for (var i=0; i
NAME OF SECTION

PUT YOUR LIST IN HERE...


NAME OF SECTION2

PUT YOUR LIST IN HERE...



#masterdiv just has some margin information...nothing special...

good luck...vaska

 
> It's only for one object, ie. the object with an id assigned.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Cade Whitbourn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 November 2003 2:44 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Modify class (hope to bring closure ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if this will help, but it's a solution I copied from Zeldman quite a
> while back...
> 
> 
> function toggle( targetId ){
> if (document.getElementById){
>   target = document.getElementById( targetId );
>if (target.style.display == "none"){
> target.style.display = "";
>} else {
> target.style.display = "none";
>}
>  }
> }
> 
> 
> Show
> 
> Hello!
> [Hide]
> 
> 
> Cade.
> 
>> Hi Guys,
>>  
>> I just wanted to touch the subject again, as it did not bring closure to > my
>> problem last time, ie. most of you pointed me in the right direction > but I
>> still don't have it working fully, Lindsay; your example did > display the
>> hidden items but it did not hide them again.
>>  
>> I came up with the following, which also displays the hidden items but >
>> again it does not hide them.
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> function replaceRule( objStyle, className, newClassName )
>> {
>>  var r = objStyle.rules
>>  for ( var i = 0; i < r.length; i++ )
>>  {
>>   if( r[i].selectorText == className )
>>   {
>>objStyle.removeRule( i );
>>objStyle.addRule( className, newClassName, i );
>>return;
>>   }
>>  }
>> }
>> 
>> 
>> test
>> 
>>  Click on any item to display help.
>> 
>> I was also thinking maybe it's easier (if possible) to have two classes >
>> like so;
>>  
>> .international {
>>  visibility: hidden;
>>  display: none; }
>>  
>> .national {
>>  visibility: visible;
>>  display: inline;}
>>  
>> and then do something like switchRule( document.styleSheets[0], >
>> '.international' , '.national' )
>> But how? There doesn't seem to be much documentation out there about >
>> dynamic stylesheets, or a nice PDF Reference, like Netscape brought out > for
>> Client-Side JavaScript Reference
>> 
> 
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> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> *
> 
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> *
> 
> 
> 



>>>  VASKA DESIGN

Identities - Communications Design - Interactive Systems

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
112 rue Sans Souci
1050 Brussels : Belgium
tel: 0485/164.411

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[WSG] ..

[Taco Fleur]

Title: ..






Didn't mean to double post ;-((


Taco Fleur
07 3535 5072

Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn

[WSG] contextual

[Taco Fleur]

Title: Message



Question
 
When using position: 
absolute and creating a contextual layout like
 
#top img 
{
    
position: absolute;
    
left: 100px;
}
 



 
I believe the left 
100px is still calculated from the browser and not from where the div is 
located, should it not calculate the absolute position where ever the div is 
located?
 
 
 
Taco 
FleurTell me and I will 
forgetShow me and I will rememberTeach me and I will learn 
 

RE: [WSG] contextual

[Taco Fleur]

Title: Message



Brilliant,
cheers 
for that Ben..
 
 
Taco 
FleurTell me and I will 
forgetShow me and I will rememberTeach me and I will learn 

  
  -Original Message-From: Ben Bishop 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 6 December 2003 6:30 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [WSG] 
  contextual
  Hi 
  Taco,
   
  Lifted straight from Douglas Bowman's "Making the Absolute, 
  Relative"
  http://www.stopdesign.com/also/articles/absolute/
   
  
  an 
  absolute-positioned 
  element is positioned according to its containing 
  block"
  
   
  
  If an absolute-positioned element resides within no other containing 
  block, (when no ancestor elements are positioned) it is placed 
  relative to the page boundaries (called the initial containing 
  block)
  
   
  hth,
  Ben
  
-Original Message-
I believe the 
left 100px is still calculated from the browser and not from where the 
div is located, should it not calculate the absolute position where 
ever the div is located?
 

[WSG] To much space..

[Taco Fleur]

Title: Message



On http://development.developer-exchange.com 
I have a "A" element that has to much space on the bottom, I can't figure out 
why, anyone?
Also the text moves 
on mouse over, I'd like it to not move on hovering over it. The offending text 
is within the gray area 3 TDs
 
PS. its all 
still a mess and needs cleaning up, I am finally trying to move a bit more 
to CSS, except the tables, I won't do away with those just yet  no no no 
;-))
PPS. any other 
pointers that you might be able to give is appreciated.
 
Thanks,
Taco 
FleurTell me and I will 
forgetShow me and I will rememberTeach me and I will learn 
 

RE: [WSG] Too Much Space..

[Taco Fleur]

> I noticed in your Stylesheet definitions that on hovering 
> over the  element you change your margin and padding from 
> 3 pixels to 2. I'd say that's probably what is moving your 
> text around there.

Yeah, I played around with that, if I did not have anything in there or any
other value then I have now it was even worse.
So still not sure what the issue is there, anyone?
 
> >the tables, I won't do away with those just yet  no no no ;-))
> WUSS! Heh - CSS is so much easier than "table hacks" .. Have 
> you taken the Selectorial yet? 

I haven't yet, I probably will get to that at some stage. But for now it's
not only that I think the table hacks are easier, it's also because I
*think* it works in more browsers than working with CSS lay-out.
(wrong/right)?

I had a look at the themaninblue.com and wow, that is seriously some
brilliant work, but I was not able to make any sense out of the lay-out, I
wish I could.. And what would be the minimum browser that would work in? I
mean that is just perfect for the audience of his website, but what about an
audience that has browsers ranging from ie3, ns3 and up?

> (http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/) > It lays down 
> some basic skills on creating CSS-based layouts.
> 
> To fix the nav buttons on the right side in the mainbody 
> area, try using relative instead of absolute positioning, or 
> just increase the left margin.

Thanks, I'll have a look at it, I did notice those when I looked at it in
Netscape.


> Good work Taco!

Thanks, it's  a start ;-))

> Ryan
> --
> "Heck with kids - standards are our future."
> Webmaster, http://www.theward.net
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: Taco Fleur 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 4:57 AM
> Subject: [WSG] To much space..
> 
> On http://development.developer-exchange.com I have a "A" 
> element that has to much space on the bottom, I can't figure 
> out why, anyone? Also the text moves on mouse over, I'd like 
> it to not move on hovering over it. The offending text is 
> within the gray area 3 TDs
>  
> PS. its all still a mess and needs cleaning up, I am finally 
> trying to move a bit more to CSS, except the tables, I won't 
> do away with those just yet  no no no ;-)) PPS. any other 
> pointers that you might be able to give is appreciated.
>  
> Thanks,
> Taco Fleur
> Tell me and I will forget
> Show me and I will remember
> Teach me and I will learn
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> * 
> 

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*

RE: [WSG] Too Much Space..

[Taco Fleur]

OK, I am convinced It's time to gracefully not please the older browsers
with eye candy...

So I started converting the table layout into divs.
Guess what! It looks like a mess, I must not fully understand the concept
yet.

http://development.developer-exchange.com/test.cfm

It starts out fine, then the #menuTop does not show the top and bottom
border
The #attentionContainer I really can't get any to look like before, I was
able to get the 3 divs lined up next to each other, but there is no border
showing for the #attentionContainer

Then I tried 
#attentionContainer a
{
some stuff here
}

And it just wouldn't do anything for the "a" elements within the context of
#attentionContainer 

Then the text runs through the menu.

I haven't gone any further than this...

Come on you got me started, now don't let me down ;-))


cheers

Taco Fleur
Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn 


> -Original Message-
> From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Sunday, 7 December 2003 7:53 AM
> To: Web Standards Group
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Too Much Space..
> 
> 
> > I had a look at the themaninblue.com and wow, that is 
> seriously some 
> > brilliant work, but I was not able to make any sense out of the 
> > lay-out, I wish I could.. And what would be the minimum 
> browser that 
> > would work in? I mean that is just perfect for the audience of his 
> > website, but what about an audience that has browsers ranging from 
> > ie3, ns3 and up?
> > 
> 
> Hi Taco,
> 
> themaninblue.com is a brilliant site (welcome to the list, 
> Cameron), and has a great write-up on Simon's (American) 
> blog: http://jessey.net/blog/2003/dec/#e01a
> 
> Regarding older browsers like ie3, nn3...
> 
> The old theory was that you coded the hell out of every page 
> until it was locked and exact in every browser on earth. The 
> downside is that this method does not take into account other 
> user agents such as screen readers, text browsers, hand 
> helds, printers and possible the most important, search bots.
> 
> The more recent theory is that you code for standards 
> compliant browsers and then allow the layout to fail 
> gracefully in older and older browsers. The code is lean, so 
> in the oldest browsers (like IE3 and NN3) this will appear is 
> simple content - with no style. This works well, as long as 
> you start with good, clean semantically correct markup.
> 
> Who wins? You can provide clean content to a wider variety of 
> user agents. You can also specifically target printers. But 
> most importantly (from a commercial sense), Google loves it. 
> Like free beer in a pub!
> 
> : )
> Russ
> 
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> * 
> 

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RE: [WSG] Too Much Space..

[Taco Fleur]

First of all, thanks for your step by step guide.

> Start off by doing it all one step at a time. Don't try to 
> dump your content into divs and assume it will happen. Here 
> is a method I'd use:
> 
> 1. Looking for containers
> --
> look at your design or layout (before you made the move to 
> full CSS) and work out the main containers on your page.

Believe it or not that's what I did. I tried to look at divs as I looked at
tables when doing the design.
 
> 2. names
> --
> these containers will become your divs, so you should think 
> of names for them that have semantic meaning. Eg. topbanner, 
> nav, content, container
> 
> If they are unique to a page, use id's rather than classes as 
> specificity may come into play later on. ID's have more 
> weight than classes.

Currently doing so.

> 3. position method
> --
> work out the positioning method for each of the divs. Will 
> the overall div sit in the center of the viewport or line up 
> with the left? Work out whether any items can be floated or 
> have to be absolutely positioned. Avoid absolute positioning 
> if possible - a long explanation would be needed to explain 
> why, but it will affect footers, centering and even printing 
> in N6 and N7.
> 
> If unsure, ask the list about which methods they would use to 
> position each element. This is probably the hardest step as 
> experience comes into play

I seem to get the positions right, but just the minor details as stated in
my previous email I can't get right.
Also some other stuff like the top navigation, I (stole) the code from
maxdesign, but it appears to play up in Netscape, surely it's something I
did wrong but can't get my head around it.
 
> 4. html code
> --
> drop these empty divs onto a new page. So you end up with 
> something like: 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
>  

Currently doing so.

> 5. Drop in content
> --
> Drop in some basic representational text for each container - 
> keep it simple at this stage. You are not trying to lay the 
> page out, just sort out positioning.


Currently doing so.

> 6. Color the divs
> --
> style each div with a different background colour and an 
> outline color:
> 
> #banner 
> {
> border: 1px solid #000;
> background-color: #ddd;
> }
> 
> This will allow you to see how the pages are looking and how 
> divs are interacting.

Currently doing so.

> 7. Test
> --
> Look across as many browsers as you can to see if the 
> positioning models are working - especially if you scale in 
> and out the viewport. Make sure you are aware of your doctype 
> as this will affect the range of IE's. You don't have to use 
> standards compliance mode, but you should be aware of it and 
> its effect on page elements.
>
>
> 8. refine the positioning
> --
> Refine positioning methods until you get something that looks 
> like what you are after.
> 
> 
> 9. style the containers and content
> --
> Now, assuming you have the containers in the right spot, you 
> can start styling the content inside them.
> 
> Use as few classes as possible. You should be able to style 
> any element inside one of the containers using descendant selectors.
> 
> eg:
> #banner {}
> #banner h1 {}
> #banner p {}
> #banner ul {}
> #banner ul il {}
> #banner a:link {}
> Etc.

Currently doing so.
 
> 12. read a few tutorials
> --
> There are three different CSS layout tutorials in the sites 
> below. They take you through each step at a time. They are 
> basic but can be added onto to suit your needs: 
> http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/index.htm
> http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/index.htm
> 
> There is also css-discuss: 
> http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=ThreeColumnLayouts
> http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=TwoColumnFloat
> Heaps of good stuff there...

I'll dive into the tutorials you suggested, see if it will help me get a
better understanding of what is currently wrong.

> Does this all make sense? It should give you a start. The key 
> point is to do each step and then test. Don't try and build a 
> page in one hit.

Makes, sense, and basically that's how I normally tackle my design.

> Feel free to contact me off list if you are ready to throw 
> your computer out the window. The first few CSS layouts are 
> hell, the rest get easier.

You'll wish you never said this, I easily get to the point of throwing the
thing out of the window, so you might want to keep your communication
channel open exclusively for me ;-)) (joking ofcourse)

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* 

RE: [WSG] Too Much Space..

[Taco Fleur]

Can I just add, I was convinced, but now back to where I originally stood,
that is, I believe there are to many hacks that need to be applied to get
the layout as you want it.

I might give the total CSS layout a rest for a while again ;-((

Taco Fleur
Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn 


> -Original Message-
> From: Taco Fleur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Sunday, 7 December 2003 11:54 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [WSG] Too Much Space..
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, thanks for your step by step guide.
> 
> > Start off by doing it all one step at a time. Don't try to
> > dump your content into divs and assume it will happen. Here 
> > is a method I'd use:
> > 
> > 1. Looking for containers
> > --
> > look at your design or layout (before you made the move to
> > full CSS) and work out the main containers on your page.
> 
> Believe it or not that's what I did. I tried to look at divs 
> as I looked at tables when doing the design.
>  
> > 2. names
> > --
> > these containers will become your divs, so you should think
> > of names for them that have semantic meaning. Eg. topbanner, 
> > nav, content, container
> > 
> > If they are unique to a page, use id's rather than classes as
> > specificity may come into play later on. ID's have more 
> > weight than classes.
> 
> Currently doing so.
> 
> > 3. position method
> > --
> > work out the positioning method for each of the divs. Will
> > the overall div sit in the center of the viewport or line up 
> > with the left? Work out whether any items can be floated or 
> > have to be absolutely positioned. Avoid absolute positioning 
> > if possible - a long explanation would be needed to explain 
> > why, but it will affect footers, centering and even printing 
> > in N6 and N7.
> > 
> > If unsure, ask the list about which methods they would use to
> > position each element. This is probably the hardest step as 
> > experience comes into play
> 
> I seem to get the positions right, but just the minor details 
> as stated in my previous email I can't get right. Also some 
> other stuff like the top navigation, I (stole) the code from 
> maxdesign, but it appears to play up in Netscape, surely it's 
> something I did wrong but can't get my head around it.
>  
> > 4. html code
> > --
> > drop these empty divs onto a new page. So you end up with
> > something like: 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> >  
> 
> Currently doing so.
> 
> > 5. Drop in content
> > --
> > Drop in some basic representational text for each container -
> > keep it simple at this stage. You are not trying to lay the 
> > page out, just sort out positioning.
> 
> 
> Currently doing so.
> 
> > 6. Color the divs
> > --
> > style each div with a different background colour and an 
> > outline color:
> > 
> > #banner 
> > {
> > border: 1px solid #000;
> > background-color: #ddd;
> > }
> > 
> > This will allow you to see how the pages are looking and how 
> > divs are interacting.
> 
> Currently doing so.
> 
> > 7. Test
> > --
> > Look across as many browsers as you can to see if the 
> > positioning models are working - especially if you scale in 
> > and out the viewport. Make sure you are aware of your doctype 
> > as this will affect the range of IE's. You don't have to use 
> > standards compliance mode, but you should be aware of it and 
> > its effect on page elements.
> >
> >
> > 8. refine the positioning
> > --
> > Refine positioning methods until you get something that looks 
> > like what you are after.
> > 
> > 
> > 9. style the containers and content
> > --
> > Now, assuming you have the containers in the right spot, you 
> > can start styling the content inside them.
> > 
> > Use as few classes as possible. You should be able to style 
> > any element inside one of the containers using descendant selectors.
> > 
> > eg:
> > #banner {}
> > #banner h1 {}
> > #banner p {}
> > #banner ul {}
> > #banner ul il {}
> > #banner a:link {}
> > Etc.
> 
> Currently doing so.
&

RE: [WSG] Too Much Space..

[Taco Fleur]

I love what you guys are saying and I see the benefit of it TOTALLY.

I took a break, went to see a movie (Cabin Fever), I am now relaxed and will
try again..
With tables it's just so easy, you see the design and you can create it,
with CSS it sort of mix and match, and like James said difficult because it
renders different in each browser. So you need to understand each browser.

The thing that also gets me is, it's just not logical sometimes, like I have
2 columns,
1. Navigation
2. Content
If I have them in that order I can say to the Navigation "float: right" and
all works fine, but if I have them in the following order
1. Content
2. Navigation
And I say "float: right" it is positioned on a new line, I just don’t see
what the difference is?

Anyway, things like that just get my blood boiling because I want to
understand it and I need to see the logic of it all before I can understand
it..;-)

Taco Fleur
Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn 


> -Original Message-
> From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Sunday, 7 December 2003 2:10 PM
> To: Web Standards Group
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Too Much Space..
> 
> 
> Don¹t feel bad!  Using a basic table grid for layout and 
> everything else via CSS is not evil - it is completely 
> acceptable. However, it is just not as pure as full CSS (from 
> the "removing presentation from content" point of view). 
> Zeldman would call this "hybrid" layout. It is still a long 
> way better than nested tables, font tags and invalid code.
> 
> The aim of this group is to help people move *towards* web 
> standards. There is no black or white, just a gradual progression.
> 
> The more I post today the more I sound like a fortune cookie. Russ
> 
> 
> > 
> > Can I just add, I was convinced, but now back to where I originally 
> > stood, that is, I believe there are to many hacks that need to be 
> > applied to get the layout as you want it.
> > 
> > I might give the total CSS layout a rest for a while again ;-((
> > 
> > Taco Fleur
> > Tell me and I will forget
> > Show me and I will remember
> > Teach me and I will learn
> > 
> 
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> * 
> 

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[WSG] center align

[Taco Fleur]

Title: Message



Just been reading 
about center align, and its problems
The recommendation 
is 
 
margin-left: auto;margin-right: 
auto;width: 80%;text-align: left;
and a 
hack
body { text-align: 
center; }
 
I have always been 
using
 
left: 
10%;right: 10%;width: 80%;text-align: 
left;
Which seemed to work in all browsers, is this not easier? Is there any 
reason why I should not do it that way, and work with the hack instead? (just 
wondering)
 
Taco 
FleurTell me and I will 
forgetShow me and I will rememberTeach me and I will learn 
 

RE: [WSG] Too Much Space..

[Taco Fleur]

> Relaxed after seeing Cabin Fever? Isn't that the one with the 
> mulleted 
> kid who bites a lawyer?

Yeah with the flesh eating virus.. I wasn't relaxed for to long, I'm already
stressed again.
 
Is there anyone on this list who can easily put together a 3 column layout?
Hold on, there is more. All 3 columns need to be 33% (or come to 100%)

I was thinking something like the following which I can't get to work

#testContainer
{
width: 100%;
}

#testContainer div
{
width: 33%;
border: 1px solid black;
display: inline;
}


Column 1Column 2Column 3

And I tried

dd
dd
dd 

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RE: [WSG] Too Much Space..

[Taco Fleur]

> Imagine floats as being similar to the old align="right".
> 
> For example, you have a block of content and an image. If you 
> want the image to align right beside the content it must be 
> before the content.

It's starting to sink in a bit now

> Floats work in exactly the same way. To quote:
> "Block level elements above a floated element will not be 
> affected by it. However, elements below will wrap around the 
> floated element" 
> http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/intro> duction.htm

OK got that one now. Cheers.

> Block level element above a floated element 
> ignore the floated element: 
> http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/intro> duction16.htm
> 
> 
> Block level element below a floated element 
> is affected by the floated
> element: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/floatutorial/introduction17.htm
> 
> Makes sense?
> Russ
> 
> 
> > The thing that also gets me is, it's just not logical 
> sometimes, like 
> > I have 2 columns, 1. Navigation
> > 2. Content
> > If I have them in that order I can say to the Navigation 
> "float: right" and
> > all works fine, but if I have them in the following order
> > 1. Content
> > 2. Navigation
> > And I say "float: right" it is positioned on a new line, I 
> just don't see
> > what the difference is?
> 
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> * 
> 

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RE: [WSG] center align

[Taco Fleur]

> The first one is better as you are not taking the box out of 
> the flow of 
> the page. Using top and left with absolute positioning will 
> do this... For example if you had a fixed block to align 
> center, then doing the 
> margins with top and left is difficult as you don't know the width of 
> the viewport.

Hi James, 
I am probably lost, why would it matter what width the viewport is, if you
only care about having a box aligned to the
<2please_james>centre that is 80% wide?

I am 80% and aligned centre
  

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[WSG] 3 Columns

[Taco Fleur]

Title: Message



I hope I am not 
starting to annoy anyone ;-))
 
 

Creates a area 100% wide, i.e. covering the width of the 
viewing area, which is great.
Column 1Column 2Column 
3
 
The there are 3 divs 
that all have a width of 33%, but they don't fill the 100% wide area covering 
it. If working with tables this would have worked, why not in 
CSS?
 
PS. I am new to 
layout with CSS, I only discovered what INLINE does a couple of days ago ;-)) I 
had always used CSS for style but never layout, always tried to keep it of for 
as long as possible Today I decided it was the day to learn it, you guys are 
the ones suffering for it ;-))

RE: [WSG] Too Much Space..

[Taco Fleur]

Cheers Russ,

Now a 
Around it and it won't work?

Anyway, I let you guys get back to work and see if it all might make sense
when I sleep over it...

PS. Just curious is poo another word for kakka, i.e. sh^t? Or just something
out of the blue.

Taco Fleur
Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn 


> -Original Message-
> From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Sunday, 7 December 2003 6:05 PM
> To: Web Standards Group
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Too Much Space..
> 
> 
> Try this:
> http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/poo.htm
> 
> Modify as required
> Russ
> 
> 
> > Is there anyone on this list who can easily put together a 3 column 
> > layout? Hold on, there is more. All 3 columns need to be 
> 33% (or come 
> > to 100%)
> > 
> 
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> * 
> 

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RE: [WSG] Too Much Space..

[Taco Fleur]

Hi Ben,

I'm sure I will not use anything else but table less layout WHEN it clicks,
I just hope it clicks soon ;-))

> Don't give up on it - once it clicks, you'll never taint your 
> code with layout tables again!
> 
> The following isn't really structured, more a collection of 
> statements:
> 
> Don't attempt to force the CSS into recreating the 
> restrictive confines of a table layout. CSS layouts do 
> require a fundamental change in thinking, 

Is there an easy way trying to get a grasp of what that fundamental change
in thinking is?

> but the freedom you 
> have is incredible. Cross-platform / cross-browser support is 
> exceptional for practically all the things you need to do. 
> It's good for most things you want to do, and then there's 
> the fun in pushing the boundaries for things you'd like to do.
> 
> Now, not to fob you off or suggest the wise words of a bunch 
> of losers who have nothing better to do on their weekend than 
> work aren't helpful... but have you seen the css-discuss 
> Wiki? http://css-discuss.incutio.com/

I'll have a peek!

> And I think Russ' tutorials are fantastic: 
> http://css.maxdesign.com.au/

Yeah they are agreat and helped me out a lot.

Cheers

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RE: [WSG] 3 Columns

[Taco Fleur]

> Did you see my earlier post? The 3 col sample I sent through 
> should work fine. The version you mention below will not work 
> because you are misunderstanding the fundamentals of the box model.

It takes a while for the posts and my emails to arrive, the mailserver at my
host is a bit flaky..
The 3 col sample works, but as soon as I start to adjust to my needs it just
falls to pieces, not saying your code is bad, but just saying what already
said "I do not understand the fundamentals".
 
> Padding, border and margins are added to the OUTSIDE of a 
> container in CSS. This means you have three containers set to 
> 100% and then you are adding 6 pixels of border (2px per box) 
> to this total. This makes 100% + 6px = more than 100%.

Great now we got something to go on, that what I need.
I understand what you are saying above, but would that not only matter if
you would be working with fixed sizes? 
I understand that if you have a . and place it in a 100px wide container it would
not fit, because we are really working with 110 pixels, due to the padding
and border being added. Which is basically the same concept as when working
with tables. When working with tables this all does not matter when working
with percentages instead of fixed width, and I would assume it would not
matter for CSS either, would it?
If it would, then are you saying it calculates it like 100% (800px for
example) + 10 pixels for the padding and border?

> Floated items are very blunt -  like small kids. If they 
> cannot fit they will tell you. They simply go down, line by 
> line until there is room for them to fit. That is what has 
> happened to your layout.

Hold on, do you even see 3 cols that have 33% in size? I look at it in IE
and they are no larger than the text it contains.

> Have a look at the one I sent before. It is very stable and 
> easy to do. It relies on one simple thing - the middle column 
> is static - in the flow - and it has margin on the left and 
> right to make it look like a centre column.

I did have a look at it, I also played around with the tutorials, but every
time I try to get the design as on development.developer-exchange.com I just
completely ruin the layout.

> Always good to leave something in the normal flow of the document.
> 
> Another aside, don't get carried away with inline! Especially 
> when you are also trying to float something. Any floated item 
> immediately becomes a box - it has too, so if you convert it 
> back to inline, it will probably do something very odd.

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RE: [WSG] Too Much Space..

[Taco Fleur]

Aaah that kind of poo!

http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/poo2.htm gave me a 404

Taco Fleur
Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn 


> -Original Message-
> From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Sunday, 7 December 2003 7:01 PM
> To: Web Standards Group
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Too Much Space..
> 
> 
> "ode to poo" with centred container: 
> http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/poo2.htm
> 
> Why poo? Good question. Maybe something to do with a 3 year 
> old child that is hassling me as we speak.  :)
> 
> Russ
> 
> 
> > 
> > Cheers Russ,
> > 
> > Now a 
> > Around it and it won't work?
> > 
> > Anyway, I let you guys get back to work and see if it all 
> might make 
> > sense when I sleep over it...
> > 
> > PS. Just curious is poo another word for kakka, i.e. sh^t? Or just 
> > something out of the blue.
> > 
> > Taco Fleur
> > Tell me and I will forget
> > Show me and I will remember
> > Teach me and I will learn
> > 
> > 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Sent: Sunday, 7 December 2003 6:05 PM
> >> To: Web Standards Group
> >> Subject: Re: [WSG] Too Much Space..
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Try this:
> >> http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/poo.htm
> >> 
> >> Modify as required
> >> Russ
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> Is there anyone on this list who can easily put together 
> a 3 column 
> >>> layout? Hold on, there is more. All 3 columns need to be
> >> 33% (or come
> >>> to 100%)
> 
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RE: [WSG] Finally!

[Taco Fleur]

Chris,
quick 
before everyone else sees it, there are some error on
http://www.neester.com/index2.php
 
Warning: main(mods/mod_home.php) [function.main]: failed to create 
stream: No such file or directory in 
/home/domains/neester-com/neester/www_root/index2.php on line 
94Warning: main() [function.main]: Failed opening 
'mods/mod_home.php' for inclusion (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php') in 
/home/domains/neester-com/neester/www_root/index2.php on line 
94
 
:-))

   
   
   -Original 
  Message-From: Chris Stratford 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, 8 December 2003 3:25 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] 
  Finally!
  
  Hey 
  People!
  Sorry this is like 
  the 10th email today!
   
  Im just so 
  happy!
   
  Check this out in 
  Mozilla and IE:
   
  www.neester.com/index2.php
   
  I LOVE YOU 
  CSSJ
   
  Who do I kiss for 
  this?
   
  
  
  • Chris Stratford• 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]• www.neester.com 
  
  

[WSG] form input

[Taco Fleur]

Title: form input






Is there some way that you can only target input elements with type SUBMIT?


Example;


</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">form input</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">{</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">background-color: #FFCFCE;</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">border: 1px solid black;</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">font-weight: bold;</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">color: white;</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">width: 160px;</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">background-image: url(../image/buttonSubmit_background03.gif);</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">cursor: hand;</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">background-repeat: repeat-x;</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">}</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">









  

  




This would apply the style over all INPUT elements, but I was wondering if it could be just applied to the input elements that have type SUBMIT or BUTTON?

I realize I could do it the following way, but thats not what I am after.


</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">form input .submit</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">{</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">background-color: #FFCFCE;</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">border: 1px solid black;</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">font-weight: bold;</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">color: white;</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">width: 160px;</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">background-image: url(../image/buttonSubmit_background03.gif);</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">cursor: hand;</FONT>

<BR>    <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">background-repeat: repeat-x;</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">}</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">









  

  



Taco Fleur
Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn

RE: [WSG] form input [Virus checkedAU]

[Taco Fleur]

Hi Mark,



The answer as ever is yes and no.  Yes in mozilla et al and no in IE.


As always ofcourse.


The only way to do it reliable is the way you are proposing - unless you
can refer to it another way - i.e. does it sit in another div that is
referencable?


I don't see however how it being in another div would make any difference? Can you 
explain how it would make a difference if it was in another DIV?

Thanks
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RE: [WSG] form input [Virus checkedAU]

[Taco Fleur]

Yes, but that would the same as assigning a class to the submit button.

Anyway, thanks for the input - answer: it can't be done yet;-))

-Original Message-
From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 10 December 2003 10:36 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] form input [Virus checkedAU]



..using a descendant selector...

#mydiv input
{
   blah : blah;
}

#anotherdiv input
{
   blah : blah;
}

That said, I've had some issues with getting markup to validate with 
divs in forms.

Cheers
James
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RE: [WSG] form input [Virus checkedAU]

[Taco Fleur]

Steve,

I realize what your saying, and thats exactly what I meant by "I realize I could do it 
the following way, but thats not what I am after." Which was refering to using a class.

Cheers.

-Original Message-
From: Stephen Dixon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 10 December 2003 10:51 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: [WSG] form input [Virus checkedAU]



Taco,

There's more than one way to reference a cat.

I think what Mark means is that if there was a  around the submit
button you could use that as a more specific selector.  IMHO, probably just
easier to use a class (as previously mentioned...)

Steve Dixon.


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[WSG] px em pt ???

[Taco Fleur]

Title: px em pt ???






(aayyy, my third post today?)


I'd like to see what all of yours opinion is on what to use for sizes, I have always been a believer to stick to pixels, because that is the only size that to me sounds as something that is not platform/OS bound.

Anyway, I also found the following article to back this up, who wants to break it down?



Using CSS (cascading style sheets) makes it easy to specify font sizes, but before you set a font size you should be aware that it could change the layout of your site considerably. Different browsers interpret font sizes differently, so a font that appears readable in Microsoft Internet Explorer may be smaller when viewed in Netscape. In addition, font sizes on Windows systems are not always the same as they are on other platforms. Your site may look great to Windows users, but it may be illegible to those using a Mac.

There is much controversy in relationship to font-size specifications. Our advice is the same as the majority of long-time designers. When you specify a font size, specify it in pixels (px) not points (pt) or em. Using a pt or em font-size property instead of px allows for your site text to be resized according to the viewer's system settings. If their system is set to view very large text, your web site's layout will become distorted and your web site may be illegible to them.

Also, be very careful not to set your font-size pixels too small. Some folks may not be able to read tiny text and adjusting their system text size will have no effect on your site because your font-size is specified as px. There truly is a happy medium in any situation and the font-size (ie. 12px) will vary depending on the font-family (ie. Arial, Times New Roman, etc.) you use. 

Taco Fleur
07 3535 5072

Tell me and I will forget
Show me and I will remember
Teach me and I will learn

RE: [WSG] px em pt ???

[Taco Fleur]

Correct me if I am wrong, but if your working with % percentage, does that mean that 
in some browsers the font size can be bigger or smaller than intended? Thats what I 
understoud from the article that Russ send me the link of.

-Original Message-
From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 10 December 2003 1:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] px em pt ???



Hey Taco

The general idea that we stick to in here is that % or ems are best.

This is to work around a "bug" in IE/WIN that prevents px based fonts being
resized easily. It is still possible to resize px fonts in IE but you have
to dig around in the menu rather than using ctrl+scrolly mouse.

Perfect case of theoretical accessibility vs. real life accessibility.

Using pt for fonts on the web is a mistake. Points are a unit for measuring
fonts on paper and do not adapt well to the complexities of screen
resolution, etc..


Cheers

Mark


--
Mark Stanton
Technical Director
Gruden Pty Ltd
Tel: 9956 6388
Mob: 0410 458 201
Fax: 9956 8433
http://www.gruden.com

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RE: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???

[Taco Fleur]

thats a good one... 
It makes sense what you are saying, to me anyway.

-Original Message-
From: Miles Tillinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 10 December 2003 1:42 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???



I definitely agree that relative sized fonts provide a more accessible design but I 
wonder about how sight-impaired users themselves use the web and their PC's in 
general?  For instance, my grandfather has coke-bottle-thickness glasses and as such 
uses a 19" monitor in 800x600 resolution, which seems ridiculous to me with my 20/20 
vision.  However for him it is perfect and when he reads websites he doesn't have to 
adjust the font size because it is already fine for him based on the fact that his 
interface is already configured to be large in all respects.

I doubt there would be site-impaired users who use 1280x1024 resolution for Windows 
and just increase the font-size in their browser.  In fact I would guess that they 
would, like my grandfather, already have their interface appearance tweaked the way 
thay want and therefore their browser would inherit the same appearance.

Just my $0.02...

Miles.


-Original Message-
From: Cameron Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???



That article gives the worst advice I've seen.

Basically, they're saying that if someone wants to
resize the text on your web page, you shouldn't allow
them to because it will break your site, making it
illegible.

If a user wants to resize the text on your site, it is
because it is illegible to them in the first place;
increasing font size can only improve matters.  Better
that it breaks your design and they're able to see the
content, rather than them not being able to see it at
all.

By using px units, you lock many users into exactly
the font size specified (some browsers can resize px,
but not IE).  Using a relative unit, such as em or %
(I use em), allows users to resize text so they can
ACTUALLY SEE IT.  If you ask any reasonably
usability-oriented designer they will tell you to use
relative units (www.stopdesign.com | www.zeldman.com),
and to code your web page structure to allow for
variable text sizes.

Hope this helps (and it didn't seem like I was yelling
at you), 
--
Cameron Adams

W: www.themaninblue.com


In reply to:

(aayyy, my third post today?) 

I'd like to see what all of yours opinion is on what
to use for sizes, I have always been a believer to
stick to pixels, because that is the only size that to
me sounds as something that is not platform/OS bound.

Anyway, I also found the following article to back
this up, who wants to break it down? 
 
Using CSS (cascading style sheets) makes it easy to
specify font sizes, but before you set a font size you
should be aware that it could change the layout of
your site considerably. Different browsers interpret
font sizes differently, so a font that appears
readable in Microsoft Internet Explorer may be smaller
when viewed in Netscape. In addition, font sizes on
Windows systems are not always the same as they are on
other platforms. Your site may look great to Windows
users, but it may be illegible to those using a Mac.

There is much controversy in relationship to font-size
specifications. Our advice is the same as the majority
of long-time designers. When you specify a font size,
specify it in pixels (px) not points (pt) or em. Using
a pt or em font-size property instead of px allows for
your site text to be resized according to the viewer's
system settings. If their system is set to view very
large text, your web site's layout will become
distorted and your web site may be illegible to them.

Also, be very careful not to set your font-size pixels
too small. Some folks may not be able to read tiny
text and adjusting their system text size will have no
effect on your site because your font-size is
specified as px. There truly is a happy medium in any
situation and the font-size (ie. 12px) will vary
depending on the font-family (ie. Arial, Times New
Roman, etc.) you use. 

__
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/
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RE: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???

[Taco Fleur]

Makes sense too..

I guess in the end it all becomes a case of - is the client willing to pay for your 
extra time required to apply all these hacks.

Having worked for several government bodies I am afraid to say I have NEVER worked 
with %, simply because it looked like a paint to work with. And the only downfall I 
see in using pixels is due to the fact IE (some versions) can't scale it.
(the only sites I developed for the gorvernment were Intranet, so don't come down to 
hard on me ;-)

I'll give it a go though at some stage.

-Original Message-
From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 10 December 2003 2:19 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???


Sorry for the length of this...

1. All government sites are supposed to follow WAI guideline - which
recommend the use of relative font sizes.

2. The aim is to give users the option. Saying that users can change their
screen resolution is throwing the responsibility back onto them - it is our
job to make it as easy as possible for all users to see our content.

3. There are many different users out there with a wide variety of vision
impairments from mildly reduced eyesight to totally blind. Each of these
groups has specific needs and we have to keep them all in mind.

We have done extensive testing with a wide range of these groups. I really
recommend all web designers and developers sit with both blind and near
blind users and watch them use your sites. It changes your perspective on
accessiblity.

One quick example to do with pixels: people with severe eye problems (close
to blind) would probably be using assistive technologies such as Zoom Text-
software based screen enlargers that can increase parts of the screen up to
400-600%. Pixel based fonts become a real issue for these people as there
are often not enough pixels to render a font properly. I sat with a woman
testing one of my sites were a footer was set to 12px and saw that the text
was unreadable for her. Fonts in nearby areas of the page that were
relatively positioned were able to be read easily.

4. Relative font sizing is very easy to manage as long as you understand two
things:

1. The document tree
2. inheritance

Relative font sizes will be inherited by items lower down the tree. EG.
Nested lists set with 80% will inherit and be reduced to 80% x 80%  = 64%.

To solve this problem, place your relative font declarations at one level of
the document tree or pay attention to how they can cascade and affect your
content. It is easy to reverse the effect with rules like:

ul ul { font-size: 100%;}

Russ



> 
> thats a good one...
> It makes sense what you are saying, to me anyway.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Miles Tillinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 December 2003 1:42 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???
> 

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