Re: [WSG] client side optimization...
I'm sure there are a great deal of items that I don't mention 1. no inline styles or inline javascript. 2. get rid of all white space, inline comments etc in mark up, CSS, and js ( css can be reduced to one line for instance) 3. optimize all images and image sprites 4. also where possible use image sprites for background images instead of individual files 5. reduce http requests to the browser 6. call all javascript/jquery from the end of the file not the beginning 7. use cache http://developer.yahoo.com/performance/rules.html may help. I am also taking an online course from the w3c in mobile development and we did an entire section on client-side website optimization. I learned about the following from the course. http://www.websiteoptimization.com/services/analyze/ www.smushit.com/ysmush.it/ redbot.org I hope it helps, Nancy On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Albert Listy albertli...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, I'm looking for best practices for client side optimization. I know that's a little vague but I'm looking at a lot of things. Faster load times, asynchronous cross talk, web 2.0 (whatever that is) and Jquery/json/ajax tips. Basically I might be hit with a lot of different tasks to make the pages scream client side (no server hits if possible) so I'm thinking of references, whether they are sites, books, etc. Thanks, Albert *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] w3c mobile validator and html5?
I noticed this validator only checks for xhtml 1.1 basic or mp1.2. Is it going to checking again html5? http://validator.w3.org/mobile/ What about media queries... Is the mobile checker suitable for if you are creating one set of htmls code and for mulitple devices? Thanks, Nancy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] w3c mobile validator and html5?
Thanks, I love the more graphical layout and organization putting critical issues on top. The checker told me a number of very useful things like my page size is too large, not to use event handlers I went and found a wai-aria model that I think will work instead.. I have been moving image sizing to the style sheet and not left inline.. Take care, Nancy Johnson On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Phil Archer ph...@w3.org wrote: On 12/12/2011 17:28, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: On 12/12/2011 17:18, Nancy Johnson wrote: I noticed this validator only checks for xhtml 1.1 basic or mp1.2. Is it going to checking again html5? http://validator.w3.org/mobile/ Not to my knowledge, no. You could argue that it's aimed at older generations of phones/browsers. We (W3C) have been discussing this issue. The mobile checker is an implementation of the mobileOK Basic Tests [1] which is the machine testable subset of the Mobile Web Best Practices [2]. As long as that is true we have: - a checker rooted firmly in a specification - which is a good thing; - a checker that is growing old and, as is obvious, increasingly out of date - which is a bad thing. If we were to update the checker to, for example, cover HTML5 or any other technology (CSS3, SVG or whatever) then how would we root that in a spec? It becomes a dynamic system without a reference point. Now - since a lot of work went in to the checker (and the specs behind it) and it's a potentially useful tool, we don't want to lose it. However, we would need some sort of community effort to determine what the checker would check. There's also an issue of cost - maintaining the validation suite means writing new code. For now, I think we can say that the mobileOK checker is a useful guide. A lot of the best practices are still entirely valid. Taken with the Mobile Web Applications Best Practices [3] they form good advice to any mobile developer. However, it does need some interpretation - which is a pity. For example, the checker will warn you if you don't use the application/xhtml+xml MIME type. If you're coding in HTML5 that's simply wrong and I haven't seen an instance where there's an advantage in using the XHTML MIME type. The checker will scream at you if you don't include cache control or image dimensions - those are very much right! What about media queries... Is the mobile checker suitable for if you are creating one set of htmls code and for mulitple devices? No. I'd say not yet. What we need is the mechanism for how to manage change and how to effect change in the checker. Keep nagging us - that might help us get it higher on the agenda. HTH Phil. [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/mobileOK-basic10-tests/ [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/ [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/mwabp/ -- Phil Archer W3C eGovernment http://www.w3.org/egov/ http://philarcher.org @philarcher1 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Drop-down menu issues
I've been struggling with a horizontal drop-down menu that came to us and we have no control over.. 1. fly-outs to 3 levels 2. only the final element in the fly out has a link. There is no left-hand menu to take some of the pressure off the fly-outs... I did add an additional skip link to the site map just before the navigation... We are the production team and this was decided and designed long before we were involved. although I raised concerns from the beginning. The menu items are added dynamically by the content management team using Vignette now OpenText. Originally I used the original Suckerfish and I removed the a href ..if there was no link. works wonderfully with a screenreader (better and easier than a mouse user), however there is no visual for the keyboard only user however, this user can tab from link to link. this user misses the content for the non-link area. Other issues have come up non-508 and it was extremely challenging to style each level with and without a link. Then I discovered Superfish and wanted to upgrade the technology, however it won't work for keyboard only users without a link. Question... Is it appropiate to use a href=# or any other means to indicate no link? there is no onclick event straight html. Is there something else? Would WAI-Aria roles work here? If so could someone point me to an easy tutorial with more examples than lots of text.? Thanks, Nancy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] looping and inputs
We have a situation where there is a checkbox within a loop, there could be 1 to as many as 50 instances depending on the results of a query. The id is checkbox and and is needed to remain the same for dynamic reasons according to the engineer. Therefore won't validate. Has anyone come across this and is there any easy solution? Thanks in advance, Nancy Johnson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Is it still necessary to encode ampersands?
Besides ampersands, I worked on a dynamic site that the convention was to add a (+) sign in the friendly URL. The plug takes the page title and puts the (+) sign between words. The W3C validator tells me to convert to amp; and produces 163 errors per page, a site that validated up to the point of the friendly URL was added. There are also URLs to searches that don't validate for other reasons. I work as part of a team and had no say in the decision. So now, if I ask for help on certain email lists, and all I get is that your page doesn't validate. I no longer get any help for the question I ask which has nothing to do with why the page isn't validating. As more and more pages are generated dynamically with CMS in place, using friendly URL's or using markers as described below, should this be something the the W3C validator addresses? Nancy On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:58 AM, Michal Miksik mmik...@gmail.com wrote: I just had problems with ampersands in google static maps, where if placing multiple pins in 1 map I had to change markers= to amp;markers=, otherwise wouldn't work at all MM On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 7:39 AM, Dan Webb libweb...@gmail.com wrote: Hi folks, Years ago, I use to painstakingly and religiously convert to amp; when ever I encountered it (HTML 4.01 Strict doctype). It's still pegged as invalid by the W3C validator, but is it really still necessary these days? What could possibly go wrong in modern browsers? I'm talking specifically here about ampersands in URLs that are provided to me by database vendors, which I have no control over; I'm about to start inserting literally 100s of them into static html pages. thanks, danny boy. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- -- Ing. Michal Mikšík web designer/developer Bratislava, SLOVAK REPUBLIC Web: http://moonpixel.com Please consider the environment before printing this email. This E-mail is Intended Solely for the Addressee(s) and May be Confidential. - If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has been E-mailed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this E-mail. - Delivery of this E-mail to any person other than the named addressee is not intended in any way to waive confidentiality. - If you have received this E-mail in error please contact the sender or delete the message, thank you. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] NVDA-screen reader software for windows
How does NVDA compare to JAWs for testing? Nancy On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Rob Crowther robe...@boogdesign.com wrote: Lorrie Laskey wrote: Do screen readers exist for Linux operating systems? Yes, there's Orca for GTK/Gnome: http://projects.gnome.org/orca/ Rob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] NVDA-screen reader software for windows
Sorry I wasn't clear. Does NVDA support everything that a paid program such as JAWs supports? Thank you Nancy On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Thierry Koblentz thierry.koble...@gmail.com wrote: How does NVDA compare to JAWs for testing? If I recall, unless you buy a license, you are not allowed to use Jaws for testing -- Regards, Thierry www.tjkdesign.com | articles and tutorials www.ez-css.org | ultra light CSS framework *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Background music on web pages
I will leave any site where I am forced to listen to music. I should never have to turn off music. I also work in an office with other people which disturbs them, and have a mild hearing loss which makes background music very loud and annoying. Not everyone experiences music/sound the same way. Nancy On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 9:07 PM, Kat k...@t-tec.com.au wrote: Lesley Lutomski wrote: Thanks to all who have replied. As far as don't do it goes, you're preaching to the converted here, but I don't seem to be able to get the message through to my clients. The clients in question are a committee (first problem!), who all say Oh, I know nothing about computers/the internet but at the same time refuse to be guided. Referring them to usability articles is a non-starter, because they'll just not look at them. I've tried reducing the arguments to very basic, non-technical issues, but my powers of persuasion are apparently lacking. Given that I can't afford to turn down the work, I'll take on board the points folk have made here and promise to do the least-awful job on it I can! Thanks again. Lesley Are they business people? Then use business language. Talk about their marketing/advertising/ and the budget and the daily work, 24/7, at achieving their brand/image that goes on by everyone at the organisation. That if someone has a bad experience, it has a bigger then expected negative impact: they will tell 20 people. That background music is an instant bad experience, and will undo at least half of the work they have achieved so far. Give it to them in numbers, so they know it is a monetary loss. Kat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] expandable menu
Hi I have a question on Expandable menus. I am working on a rather large site, which html and CSS were delivered along with some minimal jquery. Our task is to put a Vignette CMS behind it and am working with Vignette Developers. There is a vertical left-hand navigation the only the CSS was delivered. The Vignette Developer wants a javascript expandable and collapse menu so when he adds the Vignette portlets, it will automatically expand and contract at will. It also needs to be 508 compliant. He would like to use an accordion collapsible menu which he has, but I wanted to try to find an expandable/collapsible menu. I found http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200705/accessible_expanding_and_collapsing_menu/ but this one needs to onclick to expand and another onclick to contract. He needs it to automatically contract when the focus is removed. It uses a toggle. I am not strong enough in JS to make adjustments. Any suggestions? Has anyone used an accordion expandable menu for the left hand navigation? Thank you in advance Nancy Johnson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] skip links
Might I suggest article from Webaim.org http://www.webaim.org/techniques/skipnav/ Don't forget about the mobility impaired user as well. Nancy On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 9:36 AM, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote: Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers? It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course) it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach. I'd be really grateful . . . Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] [Spam] :The wisdom? of using q to clear
I'm not sure q is supported by all browsers. Nancy On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:26 AM, designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote: - Original Message - From: Ben Buchanan 2009/9/27 designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk Thanks to all who replied. However, no-one said don't do this because . . . ?? OK, well, since you're kind of asking... ;) Don't do that because it's horrendously non-semantic and you should be making your pages semantically correct. You are basically adding fake content to your page just to support a specific design requirement at a specific point in time, etc... Since you're actually adding content, you could potentially end up with some users seeing for clearing when they view your page. For example some mobile phones I've used revealed content that was hidden by CSS. Also Google will pick up all the extraneous for clearing text and read it along with your real content. If you want to put something into your markup just for clearing purposes I can't really see the point in using q - it's not a quote by any stretch of the imagination. If you can make it work with a br / tag stick to that, I think. If you need text just use a neutral tag and a space, eg. div class=brute-force-clearnbsp;/div which is at least better than actual text. Better to avoid it entirely though, using one of the alternative fixes mentioned earlier. cheers, Ben --- Fair enough Ben, I'm convinced! I've adopted the 'corrected' overflow approach, as suggested by TDK, for the particular job in hand. Thanks all, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Let's stay in touch on LinkedIn
Can you tell me why I get these. My name is not Nick. Nancy On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Dale Cruse - dale.cr...@gmail.com dale.cr...@gmail.com wrote: LinkedIn Dale Cruse - dale.cr...@gmail.com requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: Nick, Join my network on LinkedIn. - Dale Accepthttp://www.linkedin.com/e/7L1XvhOEro1RJ5LtYH3XHbryRcefSR7tSTTS06J/blk/I1410518942_2/pmpxnSRJrSdvj4R5fnhv9ClRsDgZp6lQs6lzoQ5AomZIpn8_cBYOd3AUcjkMcjgNiiZcpSVOjmBVryYScjcSdzkMczsLrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from Dale Cruse - dale.cr...@gmail.comhttp://www.linkedin.com/e/7L1XvhOEro1RJ5LtYH3XHbryRcefSR7tSTTS06J/blk/I1410518942_2/39vczgVe34Rc34QckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/S2_svi/ *WHY MIGHT CONNECTING WITH DALE CRUSE - dale.cr...@gmail.com BE A GOOD IDEA?* *People Dale Cruse - dale.cr...@gmail.com knows can discover your profile* Connecting to Dale Cruse - dale.cr...@gmail.com will attract the attention of LinkedIn users. See who's been viewing your profilehttp://www.linkedin.com/e/wvp/inv18_wvmp/ . © 2009, LinkedIn Corporation *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] standards matter - an informationweek article
Do you have a link to the information week story? Nancy On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 9:53 PM, dwain dwain.alf...@gmail.com wrote: in the april 20th issue of informationweek there is an article about standards. the title of the article is standards matter - we all want interoperability, but are you willing to take vendors to task for breaking faith?. it was a good industry-wide account of the standards problem. web designers got a paragraph and i thought i would share it with the list. another high-profile standards failure is browser support for html and cascading style sheets. designers who don't know -- or don't care -- about the implications of proprietary extensions to html spew out web sites that work only in internet explorer for windows. i hope that this article gains some serious thought in upper, middle and lower management to insist on industry standards so that in our neck of the woods, the web will become a nicer place to navigate. we all know that browser manufacturers are trying to keep up with the latest developments, but it's the folks in the trenches, like us doing the work, that need the guidance into a better more compliant internet experience. just my $0.02. cheers, dwain -- Fear of the devil is one way of doubting God. - Kahlil Gibran *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] standards matter - an informationweek article
Interesting article. I hope it makes a difference Nancy On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Christie Mason cma...@managersforum.com wrote: I think he was referring to this story http://www.informationweek.com/news/infrastructure/management/showArticle.jh tml?articleID=216600011 Christie Mason -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Nancy Johnson Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:21 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] standards matter - an informationweek article Do you have a link to the information week story? Nancy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Looking For Information
I started to tab/enter throughout the site. Main navigation is at the top, is mouseover and mouse out and it skipped directly to the sign up It reads, Home, The Recipes, Nigella loves, Food Forum, Nigella's Books etc, Club Room Sign in, many of these are drop down menus I did not try the sign up. Below the sign up is what looks like an a series of images that has a hyper link., each image is text describing the type of recipes this will search and bring up for you. There are no alt tags on the images, however, I could tab and enter to these. I did not see any contact information on the homepage. I hope this helps a little. Nancy On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Marvin Hunkin startrekc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. and this is not a very good design for accessibility. no contact information, i could seem to find. so posting below. cheers Marvin. Hi. went to this site at http://www.nigella.com and tried to signup, but not letting me and do you think i can find any contact information? i need help? maybe some one with some sight? tried a couple of e-mail addresses, but bounced back. getting frustrated. and my broadband connection is slow today? cheers Marvin. E-mail: startrekc...@gmail.com MSN: sttartrekc...@msn.com Skype: startrekcafe We Are The Borg! You Will Be Assimilated! Resistance Is Futile! Star Trek Voyager Episode 68 Scorpian Part One E-mail: startrekc...@gmail.com MSN: sttartrekc...@msn.com Skype: startrekcafe We Are The Borg! You Will Be Assimilated! Resistance Is Futile! Star Trek Voyager Episode 68 Scorpian Part One *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] embedding quicktime .mov cross-platform
Firefox 2 asked for quicktime plugins. My company won't allow you to install quicktime on their pcs. Nancy On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Ron Zisman ronzis...@mac.com wrote: anybody know of a solid way to embed quicktime movies cross-platform--in a standards sort of way. i've googled around and haven't found what i need. i'm told my current method hates IE. surprise. test page here: http://www.ricochet.org/test_flippin/georg_tampered.html thanks in advance --ron *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please
A bit off topic, but not totally: are there any free good online tutorials (best practices and/or standards based) to help me learn to write javascript? Thanks, Nancy On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think Javascript is Object-Based, because I can just write a function that prints instead of using an object. And even though Javascript has objects, I think the style of writing it is more accurately described by the prototype model. You can print Hello, world in Ruby without explicitly creating any objects, does that also make it not Object-Based? And yes, even primitives and nil are object in Ruby (are primitives truly objects in Java, or can they be wrapped into objects?). Prototype is just one of the possible inheritance models. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] CSS editors
I'm Dreamweaver and hand write code. Years ago I used to use BBedit and loved it, however, I also moved from mac to pc years ago. I'm sorry that Barebones didn't develop versions for the pc. The companies I tend to work for are PC only Nancy On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 6:52 AM, designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does no-one use Topstyle? http://www.newsgator.com/Individuals/TopStyle/Default.aspx Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Question about accessibility
I dislike image maps as there are so many better ways to do navigtation. However, client side image maps are 508 compliant and accessible if coded correctly. Server side image maps are not. see this article in http://www.webaim.org/techniques/images/alt_text.php#maps Nancy On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Tim Offenstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 6:37 AM -0400 8/27/08, Jason Pruim wrote: Good Morning everyone! I have a client that wants me to write his navigation mostly as a picture and then use image maps to get to the actual links. I am wondering, how would I go about convincing my client that this isn't the best way to do it? I personally think that some nice text links, styled properly with CSS would look just as good if not better then image maps. Oh, and to put it into context, it's a picture rating site so I don't know that Blind users are going to be too much of a concern for him since they can't see what the main part of the site is for. Just to clarify, strictly speaking in terms of accessibility, if redundant text links are provided elsewhere on the page, image maps are not a hindrance to blind users because they have an alternate method of navigating. But of course the many excellent suggestions regarding a more efficient way of coding the site are definitely the way to go. Besides, images maps are a royal pain to maintain. -Tim -- Tim Offenstein *** Campus Accessibility Liaison *** (217) 244-2700 CITES Departmental Services *** www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] W3C Validation Question
I just ran the following page through the W3C validator. http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ewr/instances.cfm and the only thing it didn't like was the way I displayed the metatags. I got 4 errors. These are metatags that have been there long before I came and integrated them into the new style sheet. I don't feel comfortable deleting them. Any thoughts? Nancy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] W3C Validation Question
Thank you for your answers, I did indeed forget the beginning html tag, thank you for pointing it out. Since one the pages I have live validated in W3C without the html tag, it isn't my primary concern, but will update with our next release. It is interesting regarding the noscript and W3C not doing javascript. I will also move them to body on next release. Nancy On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 10:26 AM, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 10:02 -0400, Joseph Taylor wrote: Well for starters you're missing your opening html tag... ... which is optional. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Lawsuits for inaccessible websites
In the US, there already has been a few lawsuits against big name corporations, I believe Southwest Airlines and Holiday Inn both settled. The current one is Target http://www.jimthatcher.com/law-target.htm. I feel, maybe incorrectly, that current law suits at least in the US are brought against large big name organizations for a reason. The importance of Target has to do with the American with Disabilities Act and the question whether this law has to expand to include the virtual world has to adhere to the same accessibility standards as the brick and mortar world. Nancy On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 21 Aug 2008, at 17:56, Jon Warner wrote: If I hosted a party, of course I would do my best to accommodate everyone's needs but to receive a court summons several days later because i had not installed a wheelchair ramp, for example, is surely wrong. The wheelchair ramp analogy, whilst not perfect, is a useful one I think. To refer to the example you used, I don't see that anyone would expect you to install a wheelchair ramp for the sake of a one-off private party (although if you invited your wheelchair-using friends they might get a bit p**sed off if you hadn't catered for them). I guess the equivalent of that on the internet is a personal site or blog which, whilst existing on the public internet, makes no attempt to provide content aimed at the wider public, and is simply a vanity site of one sort or another. However, a site that provides a service to the wider public (be that in the form of information, professional debate, selling a product or service, or anything else like that), then the analogous 'real world' experience would be that of a shop or library or seminar venue not installing a ramp, and that of course is a very different situation because the service provided has an implied invitation to the public as a whole. To use your party analogy, the private party would be a nightclub open to all-comers; whether they have to pay to enjoy the service is immaterial, the implied invitation to the public is there. In the vanity site situation I guess that the more personal the site content the harder it would be to bring discrimination case (though I /suppose/ that someone could argue -- just -- that they were desperately interested in what you had for breakfast and that since the site is on the public internet they have a right to be able to access it); with the second situation, however, the 'service offered to the public' aspect means that the potential for a law suit is very clear. Just my take. -- Rick Lecoat www.sharkattack.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Is anyone of you deaf?
I have a mild-to-moderate mid-range hearing loss, so I am very lucky for I have a great deal of my own hearing left. I got scammed however by an unscrupulous Hearing Aid Reseller and got a great deal of support when I joined Hearing Loss Association of America. http://www.hearingloss.org/. I don't know if they have any international chapters, but they are an advocacy group for folks with hearing loss with an active discussion and message boards on a variety of topics. I also have a close friend who is blind and is very computer literate. She is the one who made me aware of how folks with disabilities struggle to access the web. I began to learn and read then about webstandards and accessibility and been building sites in that way for about 8 years. Nancy On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 2:29 AM, Graphics Web Designing, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not deaf but I am disabled myself. I am a paraplegic. Have been for 5 years now. But been working with web development for about 18 yrs Sherri Graphic's Web Designing, LLC (941)429-5005 (941)525-3955 Cell (941)426-8117 Fax/Phone (877)447-8932 Have a great day. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://webgraphicdesigning.com Save on your next Vacation/Travel Check out our online travel site and save money. As independent certified referral travel agents (RTA's), we offer the same travel vendors you already know at prices which rival Orbitz, Expedia, Travelocity. You're already booking online...why not book with someone you know...us! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gary Barber Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:11 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Is anyone of you deaf? Michael Heuberger wrote: Hello folks As a deaf webdesigner strictly following web standards, I am wondering if anyone of you is deaf too? Currently I live in Auckland and am waiting for my permission for residency... Cheers Michael H. Michael You may want to talk with Vicky Stanton. She sometimes contributes here. Her blog is http://www.vickisvapours.com/ -- Gary Barber Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect Web: radharc.com.au blog: manwithnoblog.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Acceptable autoplay of music
If I come to a site with music playing, I leave it immediately without looking at the site. I don't know best practices, but I believe the user needs to be in control. On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Nick Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good morning James, If it helps, what you will find is the typical user experience on band websites is that the audio player automatically starts within 2-3 seconds of the site fully loading. The file size of the player and the audio file are both small so the site isn't slow when being viewed on the user's end. An important thing to keep in mind that the user always needs to have the option to adjust the volume and to start/stop/pause the music. If that is not a feature the user will get annoyed and could potentially leave the site just as quickly as they got there! I hope this helps and have a great day! Nicholas Taylor Web Strategy Systems Manager Purdue University South Campus Courts, Building D 507 Harrison Street West Lafayette, IN 47907 (765) 496-6864 office (765) 494-0793 fax (616) 634-9193 mobile On 8/15/08 10:14 AM, James Leslie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, This is a more best practices question than strictly standards, but I *think* it is on-topic, apologies if not and please mail me off-list if you feel that is more appropriate. I have a band for a client who are requesting that on the homepage loading a music player starts automatically. Do people think this is acceptable for a bands website or would you think that you should always get the user to initiate playback? Thanks James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] input type=submit and IE6 and 7
Does anyone know why in IE6 and 7 there is a black outline around buttons that use input type=submit instead of input type=button, and is there a work around to rid of the outline? Webaim.org suggests using 'submit' or 'reset' instead of 'button' to define the input type. http://www.webaim.org/techniques/forms/controls#button Would input type=button be just as accessible? Thanks in advance Nancy Johnson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] 508 compliant dashboard
Hi Can you point me to a dashboard that is 508 compliant? We like the user to be able to: --move each individual dashboard within the webpage --minimize and maximize each individual dashboard. --choose which dashboards with the page the user would like. Thanks, Nancy Johnson - Original Message From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 7:24:20 AM Subject: WSG Digest * WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST * From: Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 14:29:27 +0200 Subject: RE: [WSG] Web Standards In Colleges and Universities Hi James, Tony has given you some great advice. If I may add to that, although it may be difficult depending on the circumstance, try to keep a cool head at all times. Your integrity comes first, backed up by your intellectual property. If it may help you in your studies, I can email you several Fast track tutorial project packages regarding the application of web standards and accessibility in various scenarios: Building Accessible Static Navigation with CSS Calling Accessible Context-Sensitive Help with Unobtrusive DOM/JavaScript Creating Accessible Tabular Data Tables Creating Auto-line Numbered Code Blocks These are free-of-charge, so don't worry about any kind of compensation. I write all code and content within the Visual Studio 2005 IDE Source Code Editors, so there's no extraneous code added to the HTML, CSS and DOM/JavaScript of a proprietary nature by a WYSIWYG authoring environment. I'll be presenting these at the next WritersUA Annual conference in March 2008 at Portland, Oregon, USA. Please let me know, and I'll be happy to send them. Kind regards, Frank M. Palinkas Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help W3C HTML Working Group (H.T.M.L.W.G.) - Invited Expert M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+ Senior Technical Communicator Web Standards Accessibility Designer From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jeffery Sent: Saturday, 20 October, 2007 12:00 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Web Standards In Colleges and Universities Thanks Toney. Most of the documents we are handed from the tutor are grammatically wrong and contain a huge amount of spelling errors, such as: Place the curser over the table cell click ok when you done Im not sure who is writing them, but again, another issue. I will have a private chat with him, and see what he says. Im all for pushing Web Standards forward, and when i see a college in Birmingham (thats classed as on of the best) teaching outdated methods it makes me angry for both the industry and for the thousands of students. It may not be his fault, your right. James On 10/20/07, Tony Crockford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 20 Oct 2007, at 10:18, James Jeffery wrote: Should i use my essay and examples and take it to the head of the college? I really don't know how to go about this, but its definatly a problem. Who set the syllabus? Assuming it's the college administration, then they are the people to discuss your concerns with. don't assume the tutor is at fault. have a private chat with him, if he truly isn't aware of web standards, then you can tell him that you will be speaking to the college administration about the syllabus being taught and its shortcomings. if he is aware, but is bound by the syllabus, then you may find an ally in your quest. either way, have the private chat, challenging him in front of class, is bound to create a defensive stance from him. if the syllabus is wrong (as it appears to be) work your way through the college administration, explaining that the methods being taught are wrong and using this as support for your case: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/government it/web guidelines/ consultations.aspx In order to meet European objectives for inclusive e-government and so that the UK public sector meets its obligations with regards to disability legislation, we have proposed that all government websites must meet Level Double-A of the W3C guidelines by December 2008. Government websites are strongly recommended to develop an accessibility policy to aid the planning and procurement of inclusive websites. This includes building a business case, analysing user needs, developing an accessibility test plan and procuring accessible content authoring tools. The guidance covers some of the design solutions to common problems faced by users but is mainly aimed at strategic managers and project managers to assist with planning and procurement. try not to be adversarial, you'll get a better response with a can you explain why we are learning outdated methods approach. hth and good luck
Re: [WSG] Web Standards In Colleges and Universities
I was hired to work on a section of a fairly visible high volume site in the US. I had an image comp and was all set to build out the structure using standards when I got handed the html and css I was supposed to use. I was aghast as the table based nested table structure that was so sloppy it showed externally. The CSS I received was minimal. I did clean up the coding in my area, reducing the number of nested tables and depending more on divs. I expanded the CSS as well. My part and the greater site passed the 508 compliancy testing so it went live. Nancy Johnson __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
Hi I hope this thread isn't closed. I have never worked on large retail sites as I tend to work on non-profit and government sites, but if the problem has to do with alt tags then I have very little sympathy for Target as this seems like a minor thing. A person with a disability expends at least 4 times as much energy than someone with no disability just to get through the day. Target could use a bit of kindness on that level alone, what could this company do to make the life of someone a bit easier and hopefully little cost. The argument that says that folks with visually disabilities can physically go to the store to shop is also not true. Blind folks cannot shop in a store without a sited person there to help them and tell them where things are and so they can't browse easily. Websites have the ability to open doors, allowing the visually impaired to browse and do this alone and independently. Although I am not an expert and may be incorrect, all assistive devices are extremely expensive, and I have a feeling at least some or not all of the burden falls on the person who needs the assistive device (at least in the US), such as a screen reader and an up-to-date computer to support it. In comparison, I think making a website accessible is a minor cost. Nancy Johnson Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Data Tables
Hi, I just listened to a few of the video on Steve Faulkners http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/AccessibilityTesting This was linked from Max Design's Some links for light reading http://www.maxdesign.com.au/2007/09/11/some-links-141/ My question is: with regard to data tables: when do you use th scope=col coding or th scope=row and when do you use the header ids such as th id=c2 td headers=c2 Is one better than the other. Does anyone know which was used is the video samples above? Thanks in advance, Nancy Johnson Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: Website Directory Structure - Best Practice
I believe best practices are to have all images in a directory entitled images, all css, in a folder entitled css etc etc,However, there are exceptions. I work for a college and have 200 images of headshots of faculty and put in an a separate directory for management purposes.You need to look at how the site is used and managed. Best Practices, isn't always 100% appropriate.Nancy Johnsonwsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGESTIf you have suddenly been thrown into digest mode and don't know why, it's because your address was bouncing for at least 5 posts.To
revert to a standard subscription, please log into the website - http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/ - and select "Edit your login details and mail list subscriptions" from the members home page and change the selection to"Full WSG list". You can change your subscription at any time and you can now select a different email address for WSG and WSGCMS list posts. You can also suspend email from these lists.To unsubscribe entirely and leave the group, please log into the website and select Unsubscribe from the members home page. You can reach Russ and Peter the list managers at [EMAIL PROTECTED]When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "WSG Digest"There are some problems with the Digest version. Our apologies for this. It is the way that SmarterMail handles it so that HTML email and attachments are not put into the digest as source code. We are STILL talking with the software developers about
this.From: "Patrick H. Lauke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:14:50 +Subject: Re: [WSG] tabindexDesigner wrote: In an endeavor to 'be good', I've been putting tabindex on links just lately. Certainly the WAI validator gives me a warning if I don't.Aeh...which validator would that be? It sound more to me like your validator is lying. However, it looks to me as though 'modern' browsers tab through the links even without the tabindexTabbing through links has been a built-in browser functionality for quite some time. IE4, Netscape 4, etc all support tabbing. As it happens, the default taborder is the correct (desired) one anyway - menu at the top, then a couple of links lower down. So, should I be putting tabindex in, and if so, why?No, you don't need tabindex if the source
order is already correct. And what's the current thinking on accesskey?Mostly useless, due to the way they were implemented. It's practically impossible to find enough key assignments that are guaranteed not to interfere with browser/assistive technology/operating system shortcuts.P-- Patrick H. Lauke__re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.ukhttp://redux.deviantart.com__Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Forcehttp://webstandards.org/__From: Designer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:19:44 +Subject: Re: [WSG] tabindexThank you Gentlemen,I'll strip the bloomin'
things out again then!The validator I was using (Patrick) is the one which appears in the FF web developer toolbar ('validate WIA) and it's items 9.4 and 9.5 which warn me that:[/Rule: 9.4.1 - All Anchor, AREA, BUTTON, INPUT, OBJECT, SELECT and TEXTAREA elements are required to use the 'tabindex' attribute.* Warning - One or more Anchor, AREA, BUTTON, INPUT, OBJECT, SELECTand TEXTAREA elements do not use the 'tabindex' attribute./]--mutter mutter :-)Best Regards,Bob McClellandCornwall (UK)www.gwelanmor-internet.co.ukFrom: "Joseph R. B. Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:58:28 -0500Subject: Website Directory Structure - Best PracticeGreetings Friends,A topic I haven't seen posted here yet, that I feel is relevant when it comes to working to have a standard way of doing things.When it comes to website directory structure, I'm
curious to know how you gurus out there set up yours.I myself, have been using this set up:root web folder-images-main.htm-events.htm-bio.htmetc, etcRecently I was hired to do some cleanup on a site I hadn't built and the directory was set up like:root web folder-main--images--main.htm-events--images--events.htm-bio--images--bio.htmetc, etcLooking at these two layouts, I first notice that the 2nd layout has multiple images folders, one for each page in fact. This sort of organizes the images better, but now there's images all over the place.How do YOU set up your directories?Joseph R. B. TaylorSites by Joe, LLChttp://sitesbyjoe.com(609)335-3076[EMAIL PROTECTED]From: Jay Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:31:32
[WSG] Re: Digest mode has been set for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
You haven't set me yet in digest mode yet. I'm still receiving 50 emails per day. Please change my settings. Thank you Nancywsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: Digest mode has been set for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
I live in eastern US. Much as I would love to visit Austrailia, it is out of the question for now at least. I think some sort of video of your events would be great! Nancyakella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about ukraine?there are four of usbut only two of us know each other... On 6/9/05, Kvnmcwebn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: " Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies how it's really done? "how about northern ireland?**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help **-- glhf,akella. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.
Re: [WSG] Color LCD Monitors vs traditional Monitors
Thank you for all the feed back on LCD Monitors vs traditional monitors. I will look at all the suggestions. Nancy Paul Menard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could be the color calibration on the LCD or 'traditional' CRT. Check out some tools like:http://www.colorvision.com/ (PANTONE Spyder - hardware based)http://www.easyrgb.com/calibrate.php Also if you own Photoshop it does have an adjustement tool that provides some color calibrationfor your system. I've heard some great things about the external 'spider' calibration tools fromthe designers at work.--- Nancy Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Dear Webstandards, Are there any articles or standards out there that talk about how to pick colors for both LCD and traditional monitors? I have a website that is an intense blue that looks great in a tradiational monitor but looks terrible in an LCD monitor. Nancy Johnson - Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page **The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help** Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
[WSG] Color LCD Monitors vs traditional Monitors
Dear Webstandards, Are there any articles or standards out there that talk about how to pick colors for both LCD and traditional monitors? I have a website that is an intense blue that looks great in a tradiational monitor but looks terrible in an LCD monitor. Nancy Johnson Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page
Re: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)
Thank you all for responding, and thank you for the link regarding forms. As with div's, I am beginning to understand. Use them for overall layout, but if there is an alternative within a div tag not to use them, then don't use them. Take care, Nancy russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Where can I find a good example of how forms should be laid out for accessibility.Try these:http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/support/Training/Online/webdesign/accessibility.html#formshttp://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/WSG_Oct_04/toc.html 2. Comment on div tags. If we are not suppose to use tables for layout and div tags are supposed to be used with restraint. What other options with layout are there?Are you referring to this:7. and elements have no real semantic meaning, so usethem judiciously. I'm not saying "don't use them", but if there is anotherelement that explains the content, use it instead!This seems to be talking more about the direct mark-up of content thanoverall positioning. With marking up content, the aim is to use the mostcorrect elements (the element that has the most meaning) where possible anduse divs only if needed.With overall layout, the aim is to get away from tables and unnecessary divs- there may be times when you can position an element directly. For example:If you use a for your navigation, you may not need to place the inside a - you could apply positioning style to the directly.However, if the nav also needed other elements, you would probably need towrap them all in a div and position that.Russ**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)
I did not attend this conference and I read the article listed below. Maybe I am missing something. 1. Where can I find a good example of how forms should be laid out for accessibility. 2.Comment on div tags. If we are not suppose to use tables for layoutand div tags are supposed to be used with restraint. What other options with layout are there? Nancy JohnsonJason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings!I penned a bit of a summary of some of the things I learned at WE04,and Sitepoint have published it!http://www.sitepoint.comor straight to the article:http://www.sitepoint.com/article/essentials-modern-web-designDid I miss anything imprtant? Well, it's too late now if I did, but Ithink I covered mostly everything within the scope of the article.(Not everything at the conference mind you!)-- Jason FossAlmost Anything Desktop Publishingwww.almost-anything.com.auWindows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]North Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia"We can do almost anything!"**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [WSG] PDF to HTML conversions
As I said earlier, some .pdf's can be made accessible in the later versions of Acrobat Standard andProfessionalunder Tools and Accessibility. For those type of documents you can also open your .pdf document and do a "save as" and save it as a .doc or .rtf. It will tell you if you cannot save itas a .doc or .rtf. It depends on how the .pdf was originally created. Nancy Johnson Web Usability [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi,Sorry I am a bit late on this. While I haven't got a direct answer, I wrotean article about PDFs and Accessibility which might provide you with someuseful information.http://www.usability.com.au/resources/pdf.cfmI know some large organisations (at least one bank) use tools toautomatically convert PDFs to RTF - however, they have to then translate theinformation contained in things like graphs and flow charts by hand.Roger-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Behalf Of CHAUDHRY, BhuvneshSent: Tuesday, 5 October 2004 8:37 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] PDF to HTML conversionsHi,The WE04 was great but unfortunately none of the speakers discussed theissue of making PDF files accessible. I am currently facing thisproblem.Does anyone have ideas about the tools in market to convert PDF intoHTML or any other ways to make the PDF files accessible.Any thoughts would be welcome.ThanksBhuvnesh Chaudhry*This e-mail message (along with any attachments) is intended only for thenamed addressee and could contain information that is confidential orprivileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that anydissemination, copying or use of any of the information is prohibited.Please notify us immediately by return e-mail if you are not the intendedrecipient and delete all copies of the original message and attachments.This footnote also confirms that this message has been checked for computerviruses.***The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting helpThe discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help** Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
Re: [WSG] PDF to HTML conversions
Maybe this isn't exactly what your question is, but if you convert a document from something like Word to .pdf using Acrobat Standard or Professional, andthen you can add accessibility tags which is located under the Tools in the menu. JAWS reads this just fine. That is if the user has Acrobat Reader 5 or 6. I tested it at a friend ofmine's home who is blind. Weare so understaffed that we have to depend on .pdf files whether I like it or not. I also encourage any userwho cannot read the .pdf to email useand we will email them the .doc version. If all your documents were originally scanned in as jpegs, then they can never be made accessible. For those documents, I do try to let the user know. Nancy JohnsonAmit Karmakar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bhuvnesh,Try this also,http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/support/Training/Online/webdesign/accessibility.html#pluginsOn Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:38:44 +1000, Andrew Ivin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Hi Bhuvnesh, I don't know if this may suit your needs, but google's search results for PDF's also provides a html version of the PDF. On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:37:15 +1000, CHAUDHRY, Bhuvnesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Hi, The WE04 was great but unfortunately none of the speakers discussed the issue of making PDF files accessible. I am currently facing this problem. Does anyone have ideas about the tools in market to convert PDF into HTML or any other ways to make the PDF files accessible. Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks Bhuvnesh Chaudhry * This e-mail message (along with any attachments) is intended only for the named addressee and could contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any dissemination, copying or use of any of the information is prohibited. Please notify us immediately by return e-mail if you are not the intended recipient and delete all copies of the original message and attachments. This footnote also confirms that this message has been checked for computer viruses. * ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Regards,Amit Karmakarhttp://karmakars.com**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help** Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
Re: [WSG] floating image
Yes, this is exactly what I am interested in. Thank you for responding and I will try it out.
I also want to thank all of you who have responded to my inquiry, and have set the emails aside.
I haven't had time to try them out, but intend to soon.
Nancy JohnsonLea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 07:58:51 -0700, Robin Button wrote: How can one have an image on the left with a caption below the image, and text on the right. I don't want to text to float around the image and I don't want to use a table.so you want:xxx lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum xxx lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum xxx lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum caption lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum ?Consider:
caption
lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum css:#captionedImageBlock div {background: url('animage.jpg') no-repeat;padding-top: Npx;float: left;width: Mpx;}#captionedImageBlock p {margin-left: Mpx;}where N is the height of the image and M is the width of the image (plus a little)You'd also want a little bit of spacing around the image, too.(Thank you for asking, I had a need for this on a page and the answer sprang straight into my head when I saw your question :))warmly,Lea-- Lea de GrootElysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/Brisbane, Australia**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledgeTo be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004See
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[WSG] Images without float
How canone have an image on the left with a caption below the image, and text on the right. I don't want to text to float around the image and I don't want to use a table. Thanks, Nancy Johnson Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
Re: [WSG] Image work around
Hmmm, I'm sorry I must have inadverdently left out some text. At www.guildinstitute.org, I have placed an image on the left and text on the right. Currently the text and image are in a 2-column table to keep each in a separate column. How can I achieve the same thing using CSS? The style sheet I used comes from a Dreamweaver template and has the images float left. http://www.guildinstitute.org/css/emx_nav_leftrev.css Also, the image I understand is too large for those who come to the website using a 600 by 800 display. I will have to reduce the size as well. Is there an ideal width for images these days? Thank you, Nancy Johnson --- Lea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:40:01 -0700 (PDT), Nancy Johnson wrote: What is the best way to have in css to have an image on the left with on the right without using , but keeping each in it's own column. I'm sorry, could you try phrasing that again? I don't seem to be able to validate your syntax. bg Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/ Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Image work around
Dear all, I realize this has been addressed before. What is the best way to have in css to have an image on the left with on the right without using , but keeping each in it's own column. Currently I have a page where the image and text in a table. The image is the size the client seems to like but to large for 600 by 800 displays. I am using 2 css styles sheets one for text and one that came from a CSS Template in Dreamweaver. http://www.guildinstitute.org Thank You Nancy Johnson __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Table within a div tag and IE
Dear Jonothan,
Thank you, I will try your suggestions. I agree I should use the style
sheet for tables. I will begin to experiment with that.
Take care,
Nancy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jonothan Stribling
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 3:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Table within a div tag and IE
A useful cludge is to nest the table in a div and give the div a width.
You should really remove all width, cellpadding, cellspacing from the
table into a style.
Cheers
jon
- Original Message -
From: Nancy Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:43:15 -0400
Subject: [WSG] Table within a div tag and IE
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dear WSG,
I'm sure this has been talked about before:
I'm about to make live a master calendar for our organization. I've
set it up so there are data tables within a div tag. The tables are
set at a width of 75% and I did not put anything for a width with the
td tags.
The page looks great in IE, if I give the table a width of 75%. If I
give the table a width of 100%, the right side goes off the page. IE
doesn't seem to page attention to the right margin within the div tag.
Within Netscape or Firefox, 75% width seems to mean 75% of the div
tag, so the table appears truncated. These do better if I give the
table a width of 100%.
Changing the right hand margin of the div tag doesn't seem to help.
Unfortunately, this page is not live so I cannot give you a link.
Details below:
table width=75% border=0 cellspacing=5 cellpadding=3
tr valign=top class=bodytext4a
td class=bodytext4aDate/td
td class=bodytext4aStart Time/td
td class=bodytext4aEnd Time/td
td class=bodytext4aDescription/td
td class=bodytext4aLocation/td
td class=bodytext4aContact/td
/tr
The remaining rows access data from a SQL Server database.
'bodytext4a' is for formatting text. Dreamweaver automatically adds
it to the td
I did not use the 'th' tags
The CSS Style Sheet came from an online template that I have modified
over time.
The table is located within a div tag entitled middle
Here is the CSS:
#middle {
margin: 10px 160px 20px 165px;
padding: 20px;
border: 0px none #80;
background: #ff;
}
There is also a left id to this as follows:
#left {
position: absolute;
top: 185px;
left: 10px;
margin: 5px;
padding: 5px;
border: thin solid #00;
width: 150px;
voice-family: \}\;
voice-family:inherit;
background: #CC;
}
htmlbody #left {
width: 150px;
margin: 5px;
padding: 5px;
border: thin solid #00;
}
Thanks,
Nancy
**
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Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] Unaccessible - NY Attorney General busts two big name sites
Can his speech be put on your website in some form? Nancy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 2:49 AM To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Unaccessible - NY Attorney General busts two big name sites And of course, Bruce Maguire (the guy who sued SOCOG) will be speaking about accessibility and legal implications for Australian Developers at the upcoming September WE04 conference. :) Russ Have you forgotten Sydney Olympics web site, it was 4 years ago the Human Rights Commission awarded A$20,000 compensation in the Maguire vs. SOCOG case. You can find it all here: http://www.contenu.nu/socog.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Doctype Javascript and accessibility
Thank you all for you suggestions. I think the older pages will go to Contribute as is, and loose any include page possibilities, unless they already end in .asp. The newer pages, I will use the template feature to recreate these. I can also look into reconfiguring of IIS to include handlers and includes. I act as webmaster, designer, and manager, without a real voice in anything. I have long been a proponent of all your suggestions, in web management. The website needs to be rebuilt from scratch in a series of smaller websites, with the marketing portion a priority. The trustees wanted a new look and almost hired a web developer, but do to many internal political issues, this has been put on hold and I created a new homepage. I could go on for pages and pages detailing the problems, issues, politics and lack of communication that reflects on this website. Being allowed to change to Contribute is a small victory. We are a Microsoft Shop, which is actually a double victory for Contribute. Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Deering Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Doctype Javascript and accessibility -Original Message- From: Of Nancy Johnson Thanks to Patrick and yourself for responding. I am beginning the process of migrating an existing web site from FrontPage to Contribute. I have always used the webbot feature for includes of footers and navigation. This is a website that has unfortunately multiple generations of html, and too many webpublishers with no experience are allowed to update content and more. Much as I would like to tear it down and rebuild it from scratch, it's not going to happen. I am having trouble with server side includes working with documents ending in .htm or .html. They only seem to work with .asp documents. This should be the default setting in the web server config; do not parse .htm or .html files as they are static HTML files and contain no server instructions. You can change this if you want/need, but then all htm/html docs will be parsed, making your server work harder than maybe necessary. Of course, if you have files with SS instructions in them that must be parsed, you could just change the filenames to .asp (and configure the server for redirects). I see your edu is using Microsoft-IIS/6.0. I haven't used it in a long time, but it should have most/all/more features of Apache. You could try and get the WebMaster to custom configure Includes, Handlers, etc, the IIS equivalent of http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_include.html http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/handler.html Such an approach should not be a hack. If you have a good team, I would recommend it is time to really sit down and take a look at the problems and try to look at a whole range of issues to try to move forward in a practical way. This includes developing proper server and content management policies and procedures. In most medium to large organisations, if this is not done at a reasonably early stage, it never gets done, because when it is not done, it grows out of hand, and the cost to re-establish proper web publishing and server management procedures just becomes to costly and time consuming to reengineer. As a consequence, many organisations run servers that are poorly optimised from a SDLC point of view (not a SysOp view). They are just a maze of hacks and poor policy. If you don't do this you will be adding hack after hack after hack. I just don't have the time to use the template feature in Dreamweaver to create multiple templates for the multiple generations of webpages, which means rebuilding each page. This is a sample of what I have been using: !--#include file=facheader.htm-- Any thoughts? In the distant past I used javascript to include a footer. It is only on one or two pages: http://www.wheelock.edu/news/NewsArchives.htm it is in the footer at the bottom. Here is a link to the actual javascript. http://www.wheelock.edu/news/newsfooter.js. Nancy Johnson It's not a good idea to try and generate content client side if you can do it server side, infact, in such instances it can't comply with WCAG1 P1 because it won't work where client side scripting is turned off, so if that function is designed to generate essential content, there is no graceful degradation path when applied to that context. Geoff Deering ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help
RE: [WSG] Doctype Javascript and accessibility
Thanks to Patrick and yourself for responding. I am beginning the process of migrating an existing web site from FrontPage to Contribute. I have always used the webbot feature for includes of footers and navigation. This is a website that has unfortunately multiple generations of html, and too many webpublishers with no experience are allowed to update content and more. Much as I would like to tear it down and rebuild it from scratch, it's not going to happen. I am having trouble with server side includes working with documents ending in .htm or .html. They only seem to work with .asp documents. I just don't have the time to use the template feature in Dreamweaver to create multiple templates for the multiple generations of webpages, which means rebuilding each page. This is a sample of what I have been using: !--#include file=facheader.htm-- Any thoughts? In the distant past I used javascript to include a footer. It is only on one or two pages: http://www.wheelock.edu/news/NewsArchives.htm it is in the footer at the bottom. Here is a link to the actual javascript. http://www.wheelock.edu/news/newsfooter.js. Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vincent De Baere Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 4:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Doctype Javascript and accessibility On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:27:32 -0400 Nancy Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know if a simple doctype javascript is accessible to text readers? First of all: what do you mean by doctype javascript? Second: what do you mean by text reader? A text-mode UA (à la lynx)? Screen reader software? In the first case (text-mode UA), it depends on the UA, however, IIRC lynx does not support javascript. Keep in mind that search engines too may not support javascript. That makes javascript-dependent navigation one of the worst ideas ever IMHO. In the second case it depends on the UA the screen reader is reading from. I can imagine MSIE to execute the code on page load thus enabling a screen reader to read the contents. However, I could be wrong on this one... The javascript would be similar to the following: snip document.write(); snip script tag Out of curiosity: why would you want content to be accessible depending on whether or not the user has javascript activated? The way you're writing those links to the page is causing me never to see it at all... . And if I want to contact you, i need to find my good old phone guide... . (heck, where's that one?) Vincent ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Are wireframes necessary when using web standards?
Thanks to all of you who responded to my question about wireframes. I have a better idea now. Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Budd Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 5:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Are wireframes necessary when using web standards? Showing my ignorance: Don't wireframes show flow only? Like the map view in Dreamweaver? Or is it an actual possible design one creates often in Photoshop, though this article indicated Freehand. Hi Nancy, Think storyboard, only without the graphical elements Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Doctype Javascript and accessibility
Dear All,
Does anyone know if a simple doctype _javascript_ is accessible
to text readers?
The _javascript_ would be similar to the following:
!-- Begin
document.write('a href=""
To Newslinks Archives HomePage/a . ');
document.write('a href="" Back
to Campus NewsLink Homepage/a . ');
document.write('a href=""
Home/a');
document.write('p Wheelock College, 200 The Riverway,
Boston, MA 02215-4176, ph.
617-879-2000/p');
document.write('p copy; 2003, Wheelock College /p');
// End --
I would link it to the webpage like the following:
script language=_javascript_ src="">
/script
Thanks,
Nancy
RE: [WSG] Are wireframes necessary when using web standards?
Showing my ignorance: Don't wireframes show flow only? Like the map view in Dreamweaver? Or is it an actual possible design one creates often in Photoshop, though this article indicated Freehand. Nancy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Budd Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 5:19 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Are wireframes necessary when using web standards? Ian Fenn wrote: My client wanted something to show internal stakeholders so I started doing a few wireframes but suddenly wondered, Why am I doing this? Why don't I just build the website using web standards? A day later I finished a working prototype of the website in question. The client is happy but another producer has been quite vocal with his opinion that the prototype was built too early. From my perspective, a prototype has more value than wireframes. Web standards make development much more rapid, so we can respond quickly to any other needs thrown up before going into production. What do you think? Here's my take. I think wireframes are a great first step in developing a site with a complex user flow. I'll often literally just sketch them on paper. They take no time at all and are very easy to change. Because they are rough, people don't get too attached to them as well, which is a bonus. If I'm creating slightly more polished wireframes I'll do them in Freehand. I've all the widgets and templates created, so I can knock a batch of wireframes up very quickly. I can annotate them myself with instructions or print them out and have people scribble on them with suggestions. All very useful. I can then hand them over to the client and they can sign each one off. This forces the client to understand and take responsibility for each wireframe and the signed off wireframes become part of our project spec. HTML prototypes can be extremely useful as they give you and the client a real understanding of the user flow. It's fine looking through a batch of wireframes, but nothing gives you the feel of a website like, er, a website. However I think you have to be a particularly gifted developer to be able to knock up a half descent HTML template in anything near the time it takes to create one in Freehand (or the graphics package of your choice). Also for the HTML template to be as flexible as it's paper equivalent you really do need some mechanism for adding notes/instructions (like a div that you can toggle on and off) and allowing the client to comment and sign them off. Obviously as they are HTML there is no way you can really include them in your spec. The other big issue is that people get very protective of their 'code'. I could see it being very tempting not to change something on a wireframe because it's a 'hassle' rather than for any strategic reasons. also their is the temptation to try and cut corners and turn your prototype into the real thing. Never a good idea in my book, as, by definition, a prototype is a rough, rushed version of what you actually want to build. My position them would be to always wireframe and to build prototypes when you have the time/budget. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] A California meeting? was Brisbane July Meeting - Report
In Northeastern US, the states are geographically very small, so a New England Chapter which encompasses about 6 states, or even a New York, New England chapter 7 states may work. Is there anyway to organize your graph by region? Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lachlan Hardy Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 7:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] A California meeting? was Brisbane July Meeting - Report Sean Corfield wrote: Question to Peter - is the city/state level membership information available in aggregate so we can figure out what might work for regional US meetings? Well, I wouldn't dare speak for Peter, but the member location list he indicated previously in this discussion - http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/login_view.cfm? - is ordered from right to left. Therefore everyone is grouped according to country, then state, and then city For example, there are around 30 members in California - 4 listed in San Diego, 3 in LA, 3 in Sacramento, 3 in San Francisco and various others. So if, as someone suggested (Peter again?), everyone were to put the closest major city they are willing to attend a meeting at, those numbers might increase a bit Cheers, Lachlan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] A California meeting? was Brisbane July Meeting - Report
Being from Boston, I can see attending a New England regional meeting every few months. I noticed people from Massachusetts, VT, CT, and Maine on the list, I cannot see flying to Chicago on a regular basis. Nancy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean Corfield Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] A California meeting? was Brisbane July Meeting - Report On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 09:52:55 -0700, Tricia Fitzgerald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about a more central USA location like Chicago, IL? I suspect we'll end up having a whole bunch of regional meetings if this is going to happen at all. I'm in the Bay Area, California and Sacramento is *just* within reasonable reach to hold an evening meeting, for *some* parts of the Bay Area. San Francisco is more central (indeed, BACFUG - Bay Area ColdFusion User Group - meets in SF and gets folks from Sacramento sometimes even tho' they have their own UG). I can see a Bay Area WSG meeting drawing folks from all over the Bay Area - Sacramento to San Jose and maybe a little further afield. I can also see an Orange County WSG meeting drawing folks from the greater LA area and down as far as San Diego. I don't see folks from the West Coast going to Chicago just for a WSG meeting - a full-blown two day conference maybe, but not just a meeting. Same with the East Coast folks (there should be a good concentration of them to make a 'local' DC-based meeting worthwhile I'd expect). Question to Peter - is the city/state level membership information available in aggregate so we can figure out what might work for regional US meetings? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Redesigning smh.com.au amp; theage.com.au with css
Dear Russ, This seemed like a very interesting meeting, would it be possible to publish the actual CSS files? Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 11:23 AM To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] Redesigning smh.com.au amp; theage.com.au with css Project Mars - Redesigning smh.com.au amp; theage.com.au with css Peter Ottery put this presentation together for the Sydney meeting of the Web Standards Group on Thursday June 10, 2004. It outlines the process he and his team used to take the SMH and Age sites from table based layouts to full CSS. Available as a 1mb pdf file: http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/resource210.cfm I'd like to thank Peter for making the presentation available to all. Russ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Safety experts advise switching browsers
Most people I believe are unaware that there are multiple browsers. If this warning hits the network news, it may raise some awareness among the average computer user. Most people have no idea what web standards are. Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kay Smoljak Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Safety experts advise switching browsers I guess it depends on the kinds of sites you visit (and perhaps what you feed your dog) - I come across very few these days that don't look ok in Firefox. And I don't just visit the sites of web standards advocates, honest! Even all four of the internet banking applications I use work fine in Firefox (although Westpac's main side nav doesn't work, which doesn't prevent me from logging into the banking app). -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:09:56 +0100, Joe Leech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the main problem with switching browsers is visible right there on the page. The header breaks in non IE browsers. If the user is to switch browsers then there should be not detrimental effects to the experience. Unfortunately too many sites are *IE only* and look like a dogs dinner in anything else. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Rant about Bobby
Dear Group, Ive come to use Bobby for one reason and that is insuring that all images have alt tags. I manage a website or at least try to where too many people have the ability to add content and unfortunately other items to our website. In my opinion the comments pages that come up are too cumbersome and many comments do not address issues on my page but possible issues or they are incorrect. It has also called me on a linking issue where one word out of three was the same to describe two different links and told me I shouldnt use the same description to describe different links. Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marc Greenstock Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 11:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Rant about Bobby
RE: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their ac t
Title: RE: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act If we are talking IE: Isnt the problem is that Microsoft is going to integrate its next version of IE directly into its operating system, which maybe an issue unto itself? Right or wrong they dont want to spend the money to patch or upgrade the current browser. Longhorn (the name of the next operating system) keeps getting postponed. In the meantime, I think as a web developer, one designs for the browser their users use. It would take a special interest group, maybe one for some disability, to publicize that using IE is inaccessible to them, and since IE is fairly accessible to most groups, I dont see that happening. Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jamie Mason Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 12:24 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their ac t Hi, I'd be happiest if an IE7.x came that was completely standards compliant and auto updated itself (without a facility to disable this) and if MS wanted to add any exclusive extras then they did, but that everything else rendered exactly as the technology creators intended. They get their extra stuff to try and win extra users with, and developers who choose not to use those features still have their pages rendered properly and if they do, those features didn't affect the non IE excluisve components. Hope that made sense :/ Jamie Mason: Design -Original Message- From: Nick Gleitzman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 08 June 2004 16:57 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act On Wednesday, June 9, 2004, at 01:41 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If we are going to make sites that only work in certain browsers why not just code to IE's standards and not bother with the obscure browsers like firefox and opera. That way we don't need standards at all! I can have my marquee tag back and my ActiveX controls - Ill be able to do all kinds of great things. After all nearly everyone uses IE... Seriously though, If you are going to take this hardline attitude by purposefully excluding users of certain browsers then you may as well do what I was saying above. Don't loose site of the objective - with standards we are trying to let more browsers work with our sites not less. Don't get too bitter about IE people it's not good for your health. No, no - I'm not suggesting for a second we should *only* develop for IE, or any other certain browsers! Just the opposite - I make a point of delivering my clients' message to the maximum number of visitors. And I'm not bitter; just realistic. That's why I say 'IE is here to stay'. Thanks to the many gurus around, we have a whole menu of hacks available so we *can* deliver Standards-driven sites to non-compliant browsers. I just think we have to keep an eye on the past, even as we move forward. Someone said in a recent post on another thread, 'IE/Mac is no longer being developed, so it's a dead duck.' Huh? Did all the IE/Mac users just stop, there and then, when that news was announced? No - and that's why I'll keep hacking for, and testing in, the widest possible range of browsers I can. I owe it to my clients. 100% compliant browsers. Write once, publish anywhere. It's the dream of Standards, right? I'm all for it; I'll do my bit, and more. But it's not the real world - not yet. Nick ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Reminder about Sydney meeting - Thursday 10 June
Ah.. I wish I could attend but I live on the other side of the globe. Are these presentations put on your website anywhere? Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Russ Weakley - Maxdesign Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 5:47 AM To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] Reminder about Sydney meeting - Thursday 10 June June WSG Meeting (Sydney) Thursday 10 June, 2004 6:30pm - Informal start/Networking 7:00pm - Official start Peter Ottery talks about converting the SMH and The Age to full CSS. Should be a very interesting presentation. Hope to see you all! RSVP to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Presentation notes will be online for out-of-Sydney members soon after the event. Thanks Russ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] SkillSwap
Looks interesting; thank you for sharing. Is it located in England? Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Budd Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 7:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] SkillSwap Oops, Sorry folks. Somehow I managed to send this to the wrong mailing list :-( Don't I feel like a prat! Andy Budd wrote: The next SkillSwap is running this monday. For more info, see www.skillswap.org Andy Budd * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] javascript form submission
Thanks I did not know that asp.net ran on linux. I will look at the URL you sent. Nancy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] _javascript_ form submission If you are an ASP coder and want to move to Linux then why not use ASP.NET? It will be a much easier learning curve than PHP. FYI: Many ASP.NET pages run on Mono [C# compiler for Linux] including web services, and many DotNet apps run without modification. The Mono website is http://mono.org. woric Original Message - Nancy Johnson wrote: Dear All,This is a side track to this thread: I have always used .asp for formsubmission, but I want to find a _javascript_ and/or php versions of formsubmissions in case I have to do a site that does not have a windowsbased server. I think PHP is the way to go, since it works on almost all servers out there, including Windows.
RE: [WSG] javascript form submission
Dear All, This is a side track to this thread: I have always used .asp for form submission, but I want to find a javascript and/or php versions of form submissions in case I have to do a site that does not have a windows based server. I am also weak with javascript and no nothing about php. Can you point me to some good URLS and/or books that could help me out? Thanks in advance, Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mordechai Peller Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] javascript form submission Ned Lukies wrote: I come from a programming rather than a design background, so my opinion may not be the correct one as far as accessability is concerned. Since the issue is data validity, programming is what's important. That said, something I find even more annoying is a large form that is validated on the server, which when presented again if there is a validation error, has lost half the data you had submitted. That's just lazy programming. It is very easy to preload a form before shipping out to the browser. I recently had to reload a form completely client side, which is slightly trickier. (Needed to use JS and cookies, but since it was for a controlled audience, I could dictate the requirements.) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Design Philosophy
I have been following this thread and this is a wonderful answer. Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mkear Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:45 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Design Philosophy It seems to me that too many people confuse Design with artwork or colours, pictures - the pretty stuff.But design goes a lot further than that. It's to do with DOES IT DO THE JOB IT'S FOR?. A designer has to take account of the medium he's designing for. A designer for a magazine has to think in terms or 4 or 6 colour printing presses, A4 paper size, space for headers, page numbers, gutter margins, all that stuff. A designer of home electrical appliances has to think in terms of safety, fashion look, easy use for all people including children, people with disabilities, colours dictated by the capabilities of the manufacturing factory regarding powder coating or enamel, or plastics etc etc. A designer of warships has to think in terms of huge bits of steel, predominantly grey/green colouring, allowing for battle damage but still keeping the ship functioning etc. And a web designer doesn't have those parameters to work with. A web designer has to design with colours that may vary from user to user, font sizes (and therefore page layout) that differs from user to user, little control over the browser the user's going to use now or in the future, varying font sets. If a designer comes up with a pretty-looking design that requires every browser to produce exactly the same look on a screen, and doesn't have a way (i.e. CSS hacks etc) to make that happen in every browser, then it's a poor design, no matter what it looks like because it's too inflexible. I'd suggest that such a designer is probably still thinking like a magazine designer and isnt thinking in the medium he's working with yet. One of the parameters of the medium a web designer has to learn to work with is that the output is FLEXIBLE. If the design isn't flexible it's a poor design. As an example (obvious perhaps but it will illustrate the point): If the design requires a particular font to be installed then it's a poor design. The design should allow for a variety of fonts. A good design will look different, but acceptable if the font displayed is one of a range of fonts. Similarly so with all the other parameters. If the design requires a colour to be rendered in precisely the same way on all users' machines, it's a poor design, because you have no control over users' monitors, and how well they're maintained. Designers who think they just handle the way a site looks aren't doing all their job. It's conceivable you could have a gorgeous looking site that is poorly designed because it doesn't work properly in the browsers of the target market. Or it looks fantastic but its difficult to find the information you're looking for. It's also conceivable that a very well designed site might be very boring to look at but functions very well indeed. In other words, if you're a web designer, and you think that is roughly the same as graphic artist you're a long way short of the mark. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] preload images javascript
Dear WSG, Im not a big _javascript_ users, but I was wondering, does a preload image _javascript_ speed up web pages that have many images? njohnson
RE: [WSG] Looking for feedback
Dear Andy, Side note question. What is a browsercam account? With only 3% of my users using Opera, Mozilla and Safari, tend to look at Netscape and IE, but I worry about the other browsers. Thanks, Nancy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Budd Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 12:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Looking for feedback Design looks nice. Not to be rude, but is it a template or did you design it yourself? Had a look in Safari. The header stuff is fine, but the main content is a little all over the place. Would probably be a good idea to get hold of a browsercam account. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hey guys working on putting a design together at the moment, looking for some feedback on the coding and some ways to improve it. it's just about finished. link: http://www.wirenine.com/beta/ thanks, chris Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Looking for feedback
Thank you so much, Nancy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of russ - maxdesign Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 9:03 AM To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Looking for feedback Nancy, try here: http://www.browsercam.com/ Dear Andy, Side note question. What is a browsercam account? With only 3% of my users using Opera, Mozilla and Safari, tend to look at Netscape and IE, but I worry about the other browsers. Thanks, Nancy * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] RE: You have subscribed to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Dear WSG, This group seems like a great group and will take advantage of the information that I learn through the digest and visiting your website. I have always been interested in Web Standards, and have a special interest in web accessibility. Living in Massachusetts USA, means that I probably will never attend a meeting. Have you ever considered having your meetings online somehow. I realize time may also be a factor, just a thought. Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 12:14 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: You have subscribed to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Welcome to The Web Standards Group. Please read this message and store it for future reference. It contains instructions for receiving the list in Digest Mode WHO ARE WE? The Web Standards Group is for web developers/designers who are interested in web standards, CSS and (X)HTML and related topics. The aim is to provide web developers/designers a forum (via our mailing list and regular meetings) to discuss issues and share knowledge in standards-related web development. We also aim to get the web standards message out to the web development community, provide information/assistance to developers who have not yet embraced standards-based development. POSTING MESSAGES Messages to the list are sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The mail list is for all of us. You can post about anything to do with web standards - such as: - in-progress sites for peer review - completed sites for peer review - interesting sites you come across that address web standards well (or poorly) - good articles you find on web standards, CSS, (X)HTML and related topics. - questions or problems you may have relating to web standards, CSS, (X)HTML and related topics. - topics you'd like to open up for group discussion relating to web standards, CSS, (X)HTML and related topics. This list is not rigidly controlled, so don't be shy about posting. Someone will tell you if a post is off topic! Thanks for joining, Russ and Peter __ To unsubscribe from the list, please log in to http://webstandardsgroup.org/ and then select Unsubscribe from the menu in the members section. __ Digest Mode Send an email from your subscribed account to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with set mode digest wsg (no quotes) as the BODY (not subject) and it will be so. The digest is a pain on some mail clients (Outlook and Eudora I think... should be OK on Entourage I believe) as it separates into many attachments to try an get around mixed content (text and HTML) gracefully and SmarterTools have heeded our request to allow us to force the digest to all text and this should be available in the next release (SmarterMail 2.0). __ Commands to be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (used in the body of the message NOT the subject line): Help wsg Set mode digest wsg Set mode standard wsg Command descriptions: Using the Help wsg command will reply with help associated to the WSG list. Using the Set mode digest wsg command will send all messages from lists within one file based on an interval by the moderator (daily at 5am AEST). Using the Set mode standard wsg command will send all messages individually and is the standard option. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] RE: You have subscribed to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Dear WSG, Thank you all for responding. I am still exploring your website and what you have to offer since I discovered you all only this morning. In reply to the individual who talked about the webstandards meetup: I joined a css meetup once, and I think I was the only one that signed up in my area so it never happened. I understand the limitations in setting up an online meeting, but would support this if it could ever happen. If anyone in my area of New England, ever wants to meet, I am game. Take care, Nancy Johnson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of afdesign Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 11:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] RE: You have subscribed to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Welcome to the WSG Nancy! Online meetings is not something that has been suggested as far as I know but maybe worth looking into if there is enough interest. (Just a reminder that anyone with ideas like this can leave a comment to the member feedback thread over at the discussion room- http://discuss.webstandardsgroup.org/archives/08.htm) Just so you know by my count there as 9 members in the state of Massachusetts, 6 of whom live in Boston and 1 who lives near Boston. As a co-organiser of the Melbourne Group, that's about as many members as we had on the books when the decision to start a Melbourne Group was made. It just takes one or two people willing to get the thing off the ground. The advantage? Apart from meeting like minded people and networking, you can often solve a problems face to face alot quicker and easier. So if there are any Boston types interested, maybe we can move this thread to the discussion room, so you can chat and get organised. That's how the Brisbane group got off the ground. cheers dez Dear WSG, This group seems like a great group and will take advantage of the information that I learn through the digest and visiting your website. I have always been interested in Web Standards, and have a special interest in web accessibility. Living in Massachusetts USA, means that I probably will never attend a meeting. Have you ever considered having your meetings online somehow. I realize time may also be a factor, just a thought. Nancy Johnson * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
