Re: [WSG] client side optimization...

2012-03-19 Thread Nancy Johnson
I'm sure there are a great deal of items that I don't mention
1.  no inline styles or inline javascript.
2.  get rid of all white space, inline comments etc in mark up,  CSS, and js
   ( css can be reduced to one line for instance)
3. optimize all images and image sprites
4. also where possible use image sprites for background images instead
of individual files
5. reduce http requests to the browser
6. call all javascript/jquery from the end of the file not the beginning
7. use cache

http://developer.yahoo.com/performance/rules.html   may help.

I am also  taking an online course from the w3c in mobile development
and we did an entire section on client-side website optimization. I
learned about the following from the course.
http://www.websiteoptimization.com/services/analyze/
www.smushit.com/ysmush.it/
redbot.org

I hope it helps,

Nancy



On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Albert Listy albertli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello all, I'm looking for best practices for client side optimization.

 I know that's a little vague but I'm looking at a lot of things. Faster load
 times, asynchronous cross talk, web 2.0 (whatever that is) and
 Jquery/json/ajax tips.

 Basically I might be hit with a lot of different tasks to make the pages
 scream client side (no server hits if possible) so I'm thinking of
 references, whether they are sites, books, etc.

 Thanks,
 Albert

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[WSG] w3c mobile validator and html5?

2011-12-12 Thread Nancy Johnson
I noticed this validator only checks for xhtml 1.1 basic or mp1.2.  Is
it going to checking again html5?  http://validator.w3.org/mobile/
What about media queries...   Is the mobile checker suitable for if
you are creating one set of htmls code and  for mulitple devices?

Thanks,

Nancy


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Re: [WSG] w3c mobile validator and html5?

2011-12-12 Thread Nancy Johnson
Thanks,

I love the more graphical layout and organization putting critical
issues on top.

The checker told me a number of very useful things like my page size
is too large,  not to use event handlers I went and found a
wai-aria model that I think will work instead..

I have been moving image sizing to the style sheet and not left inline..

Take care,

Nancy Johnson


On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Phil Archer ph...@w3.org wrote:

 On 12/12/2011 17:28, Patrick H. Lauke wrote:

 On 12/12/2011 17:18, Nancy Johnson wrote:

 I noticed this validator only checks for xhtml 1.1 basic or mp1.2. Is
 it going to checking again html5? http://validator.w3.org/mobile/


 Not to my knowledge, no. You could argue that it's aimed at older
 generations of phones/browsers.


 We (W3C) have been discussing this issue. The mobile checker is an
 implementation of the mobileOK Basic Tests [1] which is the machine testable
 subset of the Mobile Web Best Practices [2]. As long as that is true we
 have:

 - a checker rooted firmly in a specification - which is a good thing;
 - a checker that is growing old and, as is obvious, increasingly out of date
 - which is a bad thing.

 If we were to update the checker to, for example, cover HTML5 or any other
 technology (CSS3, SVG or whatever) then how would we root that in a spec? It
 becomes a dynamic system without a reference point.

 Now - since a lot of work went in to the checker (and the specs behind it)
 and it's a potentially useful tool, we don't want to lose it. However, we
 would need some sort of community effort to determine what the checker would
 check. There's also an issue of cost - maintaining the validation suite
 means writing new code.

 For now, I think we can say that the mobileOK checker is a useful guide. A
 lot of the best practices are still entirely valid. Taken with the Mobile
 Web Applications Best Practices [3] they form good advice to any mobile
 developer. However, it does need some interpretation - which is a pity.

 For example, the checker will warn you if you don't use the
 application/xhtml+xml MIME type. If you're coding in HTML5 that's simply
 wrong and I haven't seen an instance where there's an advantage in using the
 XHTML MIME type.

 The checker will scream at you if you don't include cache control or image
 dimensions - those are very much right!




 What about media queries... Is the mobile checker suitable for if
 you are creating one set of htmls code and for mulitple devices?


 No.


 I'd say not yet.  What we need is the mechanism for how to manage change and
 how to effect change in the checker. Keep nagging us - that might help us
 get it higher on the agenda.

 HTH

 Phil.



 [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/mobileOK-basic10-tests/
 [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-bp/
 [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/mwabp/


 --

 Phil Archer
 W3C eGovernment
 http://www.w3.org/egov/

 http://philarcher.org
 @philarcher1



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[WSG] Drop-down menu issues

2011-07-29 Thread Nancy Johnson
I've been struggling with a horizontal drop-down menu that came to us
and we have no control over..

1. fly-outs to 3 levels
2. only the final element in the fly out has a link.

There is no left-hand menu to take some of the pressure off the fly-outs...
I did add an additional skip link to the site map just before the navigation...

We are the production team and this was decided and designed long
before we were involved. although I raised concerns from the
beginning.
The menu items are added dynamically by the content management team
using Vignette now OpenText.

Originally I used the original Suckerfish and  I removed the a href
..if there was no link.
works wonderfully with a screenreader (better and easier than a mouse
user), however there is no visual for the keyboard only user however,
this user can tab from link to link.  this user misses the content for
the non-link area.

Other issues have come up non-508 and it was extremely challenging to
style each level with and without a link.

Then I discovered Superfish and wanted to upgrade the technology,
however it won't work for keyboard only users without a link.

Question... Is it appropiate to use a href=# or any other means to
indicate no link?  there is no onclick event straight html.  Is there
something else?
Would WAI-Aria roles work here?  If so could someone point me to an
easy tutorial with more examples than lots of text.?

Thanks,

Nancy


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[WSG] looping and inputs

2011-03-02 Thread Nancy Johnson
We have a situation where there is a checkbox within a loop, there
could be 1 to as many as 50 instances depending on the results of a
query.

The id is checkbox  and   and is needed to remain the same for
dynamic reasons according to the engineer.

Therefore won't validate.

Has anyone come across this and is there any easy solution?

Thanks in advance,

Nancy Johnson


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Re: [WSG] Is it still necessary to encode ampersands?

2010-06-25 Thread Nancy Johnson
Besides ampersands, I worked on a dynamic site that the convention was
to add a (+) sign in the friendly URL. The plug takes the page title
and puts the (+) sign between words.

The W3C validator tells me to convert to amp; and produces 163 errors
per page, a site that validated up to the point of the friendly URL
was added.  There are also URLs to searches that don't validate for
other reasons.

I work as part of a team and had no say in the decision.

So now, if I ask for help on certain email lists, and all I get is
that your page doesn't validate.  I no longer get any help for the
question I ask which has nothing to do with why the page isn't
validating.

As more and more pages are generated dynamically with CMS in place,
using friendly URL's or using markers as described below, should this
be something the the W3C validator addresses?

Nancy

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:58 AM, Michal Miksik mmik...@gmail.com wrote:
 I just had problems with ampersands in google static maps,
 where if placing multiple pins in 1 map I had to change markers=
 to amp;markers=, otherwise wouldn't work at all
 MM




 On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 7:39 AM, Dan Webb libweb...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi folks,

 Years ago, I use to painstakingly and religiously convert  to amp;
 when ever I encountered it (HTML 4.01 Strict doctype).

 It's still pegged as invalid by the W3C validator, but is it really
 still necessary these days? What could possibly go wrong in modern
 browsers?

 I'm talking specifically here about ampersands in URLs that are
 provided to me by database vendors, which I have no control over; I'm
 about to start inserting literally 100s of them into static html
 pages.

 thanks,

 danny  boy.


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 --
 --

 Ing. Michal Mikšík
 web designer/developer

 Bratislava, SLOVAK REPUBLIC

 Web: http://moonpixel.com


 


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Re: [WSG] NVDA-screen reader software for windows

2010-03-12 Thread Nancy Johnson
How does NVDA compare to JAWs for testing?

Nancy

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Rob Crowther robe...@boogdesign.com wrote:
 Lorrie Laskey wrote:

 Do screen readers exist for Linux operating systems?

 Yes, there's Orca for GTK/Gnome:

 http://projects.gnome.org/orca/

 Rob


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Re: [WSG] NVDA-screen reader software for windows

2010-03-12 Thread Nancy Johnson
Sorry I wasn't clear.   Does NVDA support everything that a paid
program such as JAWs supports?

Thank you

Nancy

On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 2:29 PM, Thierry Koblentz
thierry.koble...@gmail.com wrote:
 How does NVDA compare to JAWs for testing?

 If I recall, unless you buy a license, you are not allowed to use Jaws for
 testing


 --
 Regards,
 Thierry
 www.tjkdesign.com | articles and tutorials
 www.ez-css.org | ultra light CSS framework






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Re: [WSG] Background music on web pages

2010-03-05 Thread Nancy Johnson
I will leave any site where I am forced to listen to music.  I should
never have to turn off music.

I also work in an office with other people which disturbs them, and
have a mild hearing loss which makes background music very loud and
annoying.  Not everyone experiences music/sound the same way.

Nancy

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 9:07 PM, Kat k...@t-tec.com.au wrote:
 Lesley Lutomski wrote:

 Thanks to all who have replied.

 As far as don't do it goes, you're preaching to the converted here, but
 I don't seem to be able to get the message through to my clients.

 The clients in question are a committee (first problem!), who all say Oh,
 I know nothing about computers/the internet but at the same time refuse to
 be guided.  Referring them to usability articles is a non-starter, because
 they'll just not look at them.  I've tried reducing the arguments to very
 basic, non-technical issues, but my powers of persuasion are apparently
 lacking.

 Given that I can't afford to turn down the work, I'll take on board the
 points folk have made here and promise to do the least-awful job on it I
 can!

 Thanks again.

 Lesley


 Are they business people? Then use business language. Talk about their
 marketing/advertising/ and the budget and the daily work, 24/7, at achieving
 their brand/image that goes on by everyone at the organisation. That if
 someone has a bad experience, it has a bigger then expected negative impact:
 they will tell 20 people. That background music is an instant bad
 experience, and will undo at least half of the work they have achieved so
 far. Give it to them in numbers, so they know it is a monetary loss.

 Kat



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[WSG] expandable menu

2009-12-01 Thread Nancy Johnson
Hi

I have a question on Expandable menus. I am working on a rather large
site, which html and CSS were delivered along with some minimal
jquery.  Our task is to put a Vignette CMS behind it and am working
with Vignette Developers.

There is a vertical left-hand navigation the only the CSS was
delivered. The Vignette Developer wants a javascript expandable and
collapse menu so when he adds the Vignette portlets, it will
automatically expand and contract at will. It also needs to be 508
compliant.

He would like to use an accordion collapsible menu which he has, but I
wanted to try to find an expandable/collapsible menu.

I found  
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200705/accessible_expanding_and_collapsing_menu/
but this one needs to onclick to expand and another onclick to
contract.  He needs it to automatically contract when the focus is
removed.  It uses a toggle. I am not strong enough in JS to make
adjustments.

Any suggestions?  Has anyone used an accordion expandable menu for the
left hand navigation?

Thank you in advance

Nancy Johnson


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Re: [WSG] skip links

2009-10-28 Thread Nancy Johnson
Might I suggest article from Webaim.org
http://www.webaim.org/techniques/skipnav/
Don't forget about the mobility impaired user as well.

Nancy

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 9:36 AM, designer
desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote:
 Can anyone point me to the best way of providing a 'skip nav' procedure
 which is invisible to sighted readers but is picked up by screen readers?
 It seems a can of worms - I've searched and read about it, but (of course)
 it is impossible to find out which way is recommended by real world web
 designers who have actually used a bullet-proof approach.

 I'd be really grateful . . .

 Thanks,

 Bob


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Re: [WSG] [Spam] :The wisdom? of using q to clear

2009-09-29 Thread Nancy Johnson
I'm not sure q is supported by all browsers.

Nancy

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 7:26 AM, designer
desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk wrote:

 - Original Message - From: Ben Buchanan

 2009/9/27 designer desig...@gwelanmor-internet.co.uk

 Thanks to all who replied.  However, no-one said don't do this because . .
 .
 ??

 OK, well, since you're kind of asking... ;) Don't do that because it's
 horrendously non-semantic and you should be making your pages semantically
 correct. You are basically adding fake content to your page just to support
 a specific design requirement at a specific point in time, etc...

 Since you're actually adding content, you could potentially end up with some
 users seeing for clearing when they view your page. For example some
 mobile phones I've used revealed content that was hidden by CSS. Also Google
 will pick up all the extraneous for clearing text and read it along with
 your real content.

 If you want to put something into your markup just for clearing purposes I
 can't really see the point in using q - it's not a quote by any stretch of
 the imagination. If you can make it work with a br / tag stick to that, I
 think. If you need text just use a neutral tag and a space, eg. div
 class=brute-force-clearnbsp;/div which is at least better than actual
 text.

 Better to avoid it entirely though, using one of the alternative fixes
 mentioned earlier.

 cheers,

 Ben

 ---

 Fair enough Ben, I'm convinced! I've adopted the 'corrected' overflow
 approach, as suggested by TDK, for the particular job in hand.

 Thanks all,

 Bob




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Re: [WSG] Let's stay in touch on LinkedIn

2009-09-09 Thread Nancy Johnson
Can you tell me why I get these.  My name is not Nick.

Nancy

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 8:48 AM, Dale Cruse - dale.cr...@gmail.com 
dale.cr...@gmail.com wrote:

  LinkedIn

 Dale Cruse - dale.cr...@gmail.com requested to add you as a connection on
 LinkedIn:

 Nick,

 Join my network on LinkedIn.

 - Dale
   
 Accepthttp://www.linkedin.com/e/7L1XvhOEro1RJ5LtYH3XHbryRcefSR7tSTTS06J/blk/I1410518942_2/pmpxnSRJrSdvj4R5fnhv9ClRsDgZp6lQs6lzoQ5AomZIpn8_cBYOd3AUcjkMcjgNiiZcpSVOjmBVryYScjcSdzkMczsLrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/
   View
 invitation from Dale Cruse - 
 dale.cr...@gmail.comhttp://www.linkedin.com/e/7L1XvhOEro1RJ5LtYH3XHbryRcefSR7tSTTS06J/blk/I1410518942_2/39vczgVe34Rc34QckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/S2_svi/


 *WHY MIGHT CONNECTING WITH DALE CRUSE - dale.cr...@gmail.com BE A GOOD
 IDEA?*

 *People Dale Cruse - dale.cr...@gmail.com knows can discover your profile*
 Connecting to Dale Cruse - dale.cr...@gmail.com will attract the attention
 of LinkedIn users. See who's been viewing your 
 profilehttp://www.linkedin.com/e/wvp/inv18_wvmp/
 .


 © 2009, LinkedIn Corporation

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Re: [WSG] standards matter - an informationweek article

2009-04-23 Thread Nancy Johnson
Do you have a link to the information week story?

Nancy

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 9:53 PM, dwain dwain.alf...@gmail.com wrote:
 in the april 20th issue of informationweek there is an article about
 standards.  the title of the article is standards matter - we all want
 interoperability, but are you willing to take vendors to task for breaking
 faith?.  it was a good industry-wide account of the standards problem.  web
 designers got a paragraph and i thought i would share it with the list.

 another high-profile standards failure is browser support for html and
 cascading style sheets.  designers who don't know -- or don't care -- about
 the implications of proprietary extensions to html spew out web sites that
 work only in internet explorer for windows.

 i hope that this article gains some serious thought in upper, middle and
 lower management to insist on industry standards so that in our neck of the
 woods, the web will become a nicer place to navigate.  we all know that
 browser manufacturers are trying to keep up with the latest developments,
 but it's the folks in the trenches, like us doing the work, that need the
 guidance into a better more compliant internet experience.

 just my $0.02.

 cheers, dwain



 --
 Fear of the devil is one way of doubting God.   - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: [WSG] standards matter - an informationweek article

2009-04-23 Thread Nancy Johnson
Interesting article.  I hope it makes a difference

Nancy

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Christie Mason
cma...@managersforum.com wrote:
 I think he was referring to this story
 http://www.informationweek.com/news/infrastructure/management/showArticle.jh
 tml?articleID=216600011

 Christie Mason

 -Original Message-
 From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
 Behalf Of Nancy Johnson
 Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:21 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] standards matter - an informationweek article

 Do you have a link to the information week story?

 Nancy




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Re: [WSG] Looking For Information

2009-01-26 Thread Nancy Johnson
I started to tab/enter throughout the site.  Main navigation is at the
top, is mouseover and mouse out and it skipped directly to the sign up
It reads, Home, The Recipes, Nigella loves, Food Forum, Nigella's
Books etc, Club Room Sign in, many of these are drop down menus

I did not try the sign up.

Below the sign up is what looks like an a series of images that has a
hyper link., each image is text describing the type of recipes this
will search and bring up for you. There are no alt tags on the images,
however, I could tab and enter to these.

I did not see any contact information on the homepage.

I hope this helps a little.

Nancy


On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Marvin Hunkin startrekc...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi.
 and this is not a very good design for accessibility.
 no contact information, i could seem to find.
 so posting below.
 cheers Marvin.

 Hi.
 went to this site at http://www.nigella.com
 and tried to signup, but not letting me and do you think i can find any
 contact information?
 i need help?
 maybe some one with some sight?
 tried a couple of e-mail addresses, but bounced back.
 getting frustrated.
 and my broadband connection is slow today?
 cheers Marvin.
 E-mail: startrekc...@gmail.com
 MSN: sttartrekc...@msn.com
 Skype: startrekcafe
 We Are The Borg! You Will Be Assimilated! Resistance Is Futile!
 Star Trek Voyager Episode 68 Scorpian Part One
 E-mail: startrekc...@gmail.com
 MSN: sttartrekc...@msn.com
 Skype: startrekcafe
 We Are The Borg! You Will Be Assimilated! Resistance Is Futile!
 Star Trek Voyager Episode 68 Scorpian Part One




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Re: [WSG] embedding quicktime .mov cross-platform

2009-01-15 Thread Nancy Johnson
Firefox 2 asked for quicktime plugins.  My company won't allow you to
install quicktime on their pcs.

Nancy

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Ron Zisman ronzis...@mac.com wrote:
 anybody know of a solid way to embed quicktime movies cross-platform--in a
 standards sort of way.

 i've googled around and haven't found what i need. i'm told my current
 method hates IE. surprise.

 test page here:
 http://www.ricochet.org/test_flippin/georg_tampered.html

 thanks in advance

 --ron




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Re: [WSG] JavaScript clarification please

2008-10-24 Thread Nancy Johnson
A bit off topic, but not totally:  are there any free good online
tutorials (best practices and/or standards based)  to help me learn to
write javascript?

Thanks,

Nancy

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I don't think Javascript is Object-Based, because I can just write a
 function that prints instead of using an object. And even though
 Javascript has objects, I think the style of writing it is more
 accurately described by the prototype model.

 You can print Hello, world in Ruby without explicitly creating
 any objects, does that also make it not Object-Based?
 And yes, even primitives and nil are object in Ruby (are primitives
 truly objects
 in Java, or can they be wrapped into objects?).

 Prototype is just one of the possible inheritance models.

 Regards,
 Rimantas
 --
 http://rimantas.com/


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Re: [WSG] CSS editors

2008-10-20 Thread Nancy Johnson
I'm Dreamweaver and hand write code.   Years ago I used to use BBedit
and loved it, however, I also moved from mac to pc years ago.  I'm
sorry that Barebones didn't develop versions for the pc.  The
companies I tend to work for are PC only

Nancy

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 6:52 AM, designer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Does no-one use Topstyle?

 http://www.newsgator.com/Individuals/TopStyle/Default.aspx

 Bob
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Re: [WSG] Question about accessibility

2008-08-27 Thread Nancy Johnson
I dislike image maps as there are so many better ways to do
navigtation.  However, client side image maps are 508 compliant and
accessible if coded correctly.  Server side image maps are not.
see this article in  http://www.webaim.org/techniques/images/alt_text.php#maps

Nancy

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Tim Offenstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 At 6:37 AM -0400 8/27/08, Jason Pruim wrote:

 Good Morning everyone!

  I have a client that wants me to write his navigation mostly as a picture
 and then use image maps to get to the actual links.

 I am wondering, how would I go about convincing my client that this isn't
 the best way to do it? I personally think that some nice text links, styled
 properly with CSS would look just as good if not better then image maps.

  Oh, and to put it into context, it's a picture rating site so I don't
 know that Blind users are going to be too much of a concern for him since
 they can't see what the main part of the site is for.


 Just to clarify, strictly speaking in terms of accessibility, if redundant
 text links are provided elsewhere on the page, image maps are not a
 hindrance to blind users because they have an alternate method of
 navigating.

 But of course the many excellent suggestions regarding a more efficient way
 of coding the site are definitely the way to go. Besides, images maps are a
 royal pain to maintain.

 -Tim
 --
 
   Tim Offenstein  ***  Campus Accessibility Liaison  ***  (217) 244-2700
CITES Departmental Services  ***  www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein
 


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[WSG] W3C Validation Question

2008-08-26 Thread Nancy Johnson
I just ran the following page through the W3C validator.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ewr/instances.cfm and the only thing it
didn't like was the way I displayed the metatags. I got 4 errors.
These are metatags that have been there long before I came and
integrated them into the new style sheet.  I don't feel comfortable
deleting them.

Any thoughts?

Nancy


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Re: [WSG] W3C Validation Question

2008-08-26 Thread Nancy Johnson
Thank you for your answers, I did indeed forget the beginning html
tag, thank you for pointing it out. Since one the pages I have live
validated in W3C without the html tag, it isn't my primary concern,
but will update with our next release.

It is interesting regarding the noscript and W3C not doing
javascript.  I will also move them to body on next release.

Nancy

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 10:26 AM, David Dorward [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 10:02 -0400, Joseph Taylor wrote:
 Well for starters you're missing your opening html tag...

 ... which is optional.

 --
 David Dorward
 http://dorward.me.uk/



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Re: [WSG] Lawsuits for inaccessible websites

2008-08-21 Thread Nancy Johnson
In the US, there already has been a few lawsuits against big name
corporations,  I believe Southwest Airlines and Holiday Inn both
settled.   The current one is Target
http://www.jimthatcher.com/law-target.htm.

I feel, maybe incorrectly, that current law suits at least in the US
are brought against large big name organizations for a reason.   The
importance of Target has to do with the American with Disabilities Act
and the question whether this law has to expand to include the virtual
world has to adhere to the same accessibility standards as the brick
and mortar world.

Nancy

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 21 Aug 2008, at 17:56, Jon Warner wrote:

 If I hosted a party, of course I would do my best to accommodate
 everyone's needs but to receive a court summons several days later because i
 had not installed a wheelchair ramp, for example, is surely wrong.

 The wheelchair ramp analogy, whilst not perfect, is a useful one I think. To
 refer to the example you used, I don't see that anyone would expect you to
 install a wheelchair ramp for the sake of a one-off private party (although
 if you invited your wheelchair-using friends they might get a bit p**sed off
 if you hadn't catered for them). I guess the equivalent of that on the
 internet is a personal site or blog which, whilst existing on the public
 internet, makes no attempt to provide content aimed at the wider public, and
 is simply a vanity site of one sort or another.

 However, a site that provides a service to the wider public (be that in the
 form of information, professional debate, selling a product or service, or
 anything else like that), then the analogous 'real world' experience would
 be that of a shop or library or seminar venue not installing a ramp, and
 that of course is a very different situation because the service provided
 has an implied invitation to the public as a whole. To use your party
 analogy, the private party would be a nightclub open to all-comers; whether
 they have to pay to enjoy the service is immaterial, the implied invitation
 to the public is there.

 In the vanity site situation I guess that the more personal the site content
 the harder it would be to bring discrimination case (though I /suppose/ that
 someone could argue -- just -- that they were desperately interested in what
 you had for breakfast and that since the site is on the public internet they
 have a right to be able to access it); with the second situation, however,
 the 'service offered to the public' aspect means that the potential for a
 law suit is very clear.

 Just my take.

 --
 Rick Lecoat
 www.sharkattack.co.uk



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Re: [WSG] Is anyone of you deaf?

2008-08-20 Thread Nancy Johnson
I have a mild-to-moderate mid-range hearing loss, so I am very lucky
for I have a great deal of my own hearing left.

I got scammed however by an unscrupulous Hearing Aid Reseller and got
a great deal of support when I joined Hearing Loss Association of
America.  http://www.hearingloss.org/.  I don't know if they have any
international chapters, but they are an advocacy group for folks with
hearing loss with an active discussion and message boards on a variety
of topics.

I also have a close friend who is blind and is very computer literate.
 She is the one who made me aware of how folks with disabilities
struggle to access the web.  I began to learn and read then about
webstandards and accessibility and been building sites in that way for
about 8 years.

Nancy

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 2:29 AM, Graphics  Web Designing, LLC
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am not deaf but I am disabled myself. I am a paraplegic. Have been for 5
 years now. But been working with web development for about 18 yrs




 Sherri
 Graphic's  Web Designing, LLC
 (941)429-5005  (941)525-3955 Cell
 (941)426-8117 Fax/Phone
 (877)447-8932


 Have a great day.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://webgraphicdesigning.com


 Save on your next Vacation/Travel
  Check out our online travel site and save money. As independent certified
 referral travel agents (RTA's), we offer the same travel vendors you already
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 booking online...why not book with someone you know...us!




 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Gary Barber
 Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:11 PM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] Is anyone of you deaf?

 Michael Heuberger wrote:
 Hello folks

 As a deaf webdesigner strictly following web standards, I am wondering
 if anyone of you is deaf too?

 Currently I live in Auckland and am waiting for my permission for
 residency...

 Cheers

 Michael H.

 Michael

 You may want to talk with Vicky Stanton.  She sometimes contributes here.

 Her blog is http://www.vickisvapours.com/

 --
 Gary Barber
 Freelance User Interaction Designer/ Information Architect

 Web: radharc.com.au
 blog: manwithnoblog.com



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Re: [WSG] Acceptable autoplay of music

2008-08-15 Thread Nancy Johnson
If I come to a site with music playing, I leave it immediately without
looking at the site.  I don't know best practices, but I believe the
user needs to be in control.

On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Nick Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Good morning James,

 If it helps, what you will find is the typical user experience on band
 websites is that the audio player automatically starts within 2-3 seconds of
 the site fully loading.  The file size of the player and the audio file are
 both small so the site isn't slow when being viewed on the user's end.

 An important thing to keep in mind that the user always needs to have the
 option to adjust the volume and to start/stop/pause the music.  If that is
 not a feature the user will get annoyed and could potentially leave the site
 just as quickly as they got there!


 I hope this helps and have a great day!

 
 Nicholas Taylor
 Web Strategy  Systems Manager
 Purdue University
 South Campus Courts, Building D
 507 Harrison Street
 West Lafayette, IN 47907
 (765) 496-6864 office
 (765) 494-0793 fax
 (616) 634-9193 mobile



 On 8/15/08 10:14 AM, James Leslie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi,

 This is a more best practices question than strictly standards, but I
 *think* it is on-topic, apologies if not and please mail me off-list if you
 feel that is more appropriate.

 I have a band for a client who are requesting that on the homepage loading a
 music player starts automatically. Do people think this is acceptable for a
 bands website or would you think that you should always get the user to
 initiate playback?

 Thanks

 James


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[WSG] input type=submit and IE6 and 7

2008-02-27 Thread Nancy Johnson
Does anyone know why in IE6 and 7 there is a black outline around
buttons that use input type=submit  instead of input
type=button,  and is there a work around to rid of the outline?

Webaim.org suggests using 'submit' or 'reset' instead of 'button'  to
define the input type.
http://www.webaim.org/techniques/forms/controls#button

Would input type=button  be just as accessible?


Thanks in advance

Nancy Johnson


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[WSG] 508 compliant dashboard

2007-11-01 Thread Nancy Johnson
Hi 
Can you point me to a dashboard that is 508 compliant?  
We like the user to be able to:
--move each individual dashboard within the webpage
--minimize and maximize each individual dashboard. 
--choose which dashboards with the page the user would like. 

Thanks,

Nancy Johnson

- Original Message 
From: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 7:24:20 AM
Subject: WSG Digest


*
WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGEST
*


From: Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 14:29:27 +0200
Subject: RE: [WSG] Web Standards In Colleges and Universities

Hi James,

 

Tony has given you some great advice. If I may add to that, although it
 
may
be difficult depending on the circumstance, try to keep a cool head at 
all
times. Your integrity comes first, backed up by your intellectual 
property.

 

If it may help you in your studies, I can email you several Fast track
tutorial project packages regarding the application of web standards
 and
accessibility in various scenarios:

 

Building Accessible Static Navigation with CSS

Calling Accessible Context-Sensitive Help with Unobtrusive 
DOM/JavaScript

Creating Accessible Tabular Data Tables

Creating Auto-line Numbered Code Blocks

 

These are free-of-charge, so don't worry about any kind of
 compensation. 
I
write all code and content within the Visual Studio 2005 IDE Source
 Code
Editors, so there's no extraneous code added to the HTML, CSS and
DOM/JavaScript of a proprietary nature by a WYSIWYG authoring 
environment.
I'll be presenting these at the next WritersUA Annual conference in 
March
2008 at Portland, Oregon, USA. Please let me know, and I'll be happy to
 
send
them.

 

Kind regards,

Frank M. Palinkas
Microsoft M.V.P. - Windows Help

W3C HTML Working Group (H.T.M.L.W.G.) - Invited Expert

M.C.P., M.C.T., M.C.S.E., M.C.D.B.A., A+   

Senior Technical Communicator 

Web Standards  Accessibility Designer 

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On
Behalf Of James Jeffery
Sent: Saturday, 20 October, 2007 12:00 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Web Standards In Colleges and Universities

 

Thanks Toney.

Most of the documents we are handed from the tutor are grammatically 
wrong
and contain a huge amount of spelling errors, such as:

Place the curser over the table cell click ok when you done 

Im not sure who is writing them, but again, another issue.

I will have a private chat with him, and see what he says. Im all for 
pushing
Web Standards forward, and when i see a college in Birmingham (thats 
classed 
as on of the best) teaching outdated methods it makes me angry for both
the industry and for the thousands of students.

It may not be his fault, your right.

James

On 10/20/07, Tony Crockford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On 20 Oct 2007, at 10:18, James Jeffery wrote:
  Should i use my essay and examples and
 take it to the head of
 the college? I really don't know how to go about this, but its
 definatly a 
 problem.


Who set the syllabus?

Assuming it's the college administration, then they are the people to
discuss your concerns with.

don't assume the tutor is at fault.

have a private chat with him, if he truly isn't aware of web 
standards, then you can tell him that you will be speaking to the
college administration about the syllabus being taught and its
shortcomings.

if he is aware, but is bound by the syllabus, then you may find an 
ally in your quest.

either way, have the private chat,  challenging him in front of
class, is bound to create a defensive stance from him.

if the syllabus is wrong (as it appears to be) work your way through 
the college administration, explaining that the methods being taught
are wrong and using this as support for your case:

http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/government it/web guidelines/ 
consultations.aspx

In order to meet European objectives for inclusive e-government and
so that the UK public sector meets its obligations with regards to
disability legislation, we have proposed that all government websites 
must meet Level Double-A of the W3C guidelines by December 2008.
Government websites are strongly recommended to develop an
accessibility policy to aid the planning and procurement of inclusive
websites. This includes building a business case, analysing user 
needs, developing an accessibility test plan and procuring accessible
content authoring tools. The guidance covers some of the design
solutions to common problems faced by users but is mainly aimed at
strategic managers and project managers to assist with planning and 
procurement.



try not to be adversarial, you'll get a better response with a can
you explain why we are learning outdated methods approach.



hth and good luck

Re: [WSG] Web Standards In Colleges and Universities

2007-10-23 Thread Nancy Johnson
I was hired to work on a section of a fairly visible high volume site in the 
US.  I had an image comp and was all set to build out the structure using 
standards when I got handed the html and css I was supposed to use.

I was aghast as the table based nested table structure that was so sloppy it 
showed externally.  The CSS I received was minimal.

I did clean up the coding in my area, reducing the number of nested tables and 
depending more on divs. I expanded the CSS as well.  

My part and the greater site passed the 508 compliancy testing so it went live.

Nancy Johnson


__
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Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard

2007-10-05 Thread Nancy Johnson
Hi 

I hope this thread isn't closed.  

I have never worked on large retail sites as I tend to work on non-profit and 
government sites, but if the problem has to do with alt tags then I have very 
little sympathy for Target as this seems like a minor thing.

A person with a disability expends at least 4 times as much energy than someone 
with no disability just to get through the day.  Target could use a bit of 
kindness on that level alone, what could this company do to make the life of 
someone a bit easier and hopefully little cost. 


The argument that says that folks with visually disabilities can physically go 
to the store to shop is also not true. 

Blind folks cannot shop in a store without a sited person there to help them 
and tell them where things are and so they can't browse easily.  Websites have 
the ability to open doors, allowing the visually impaired to browse and do this 
alone and independently.

Although I am not an expert and may be incorrect, all assistive devices are 
extremely expensive, and I have a feeling at least some or not all of the 
burden falls on the person who needs the assistive device (at least in the US), 
such as a screen reader and an up-to-date computer to support it.   In 
comparison, I think making a website accessible is a minor cost. 

Nancy Johnson








   

Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, 
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[WSG] Data Tables

2007-09-13 Thread Nancy Johnson
Hi,

I just listened to a few of the video on Steve Faulkners  
http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/AccessibilityTesting 
This was linked from  Max Design's Some links for light reading 
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/2007/09/11/some-links-141/ 

My question is: with regard to data tables:  when do you use th scope=col  
coding or th scope=row

and when do you use the header ids  such as th id=c2  td headers=c2

Is one better than the other. Does anyone know which was used is the video 
samples above?


Thanks in advance,

Nancy Johnson







  

Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on 
Yahoo! TV.
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[WSG] Re: Website Directory Structure - Best Practice

2006-03-20 Thread Nancy Johnson
I believe best practices are to have all images in a directory entitled images, all css, in a folder entitled css etc etc,However, there are exceptions. I work for a college and have 200 images of headshots of faculty and put in an a separate directory for management purposes.You need to look at how the site is used and managed. Best Practices, isn't always 100% appropriate.Nancy Johnsonwsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote:  WEB STANDARDS GROUP MAIL LIST DIGESTIf you have suddenly been thrown into digest mode and don't know why, it's because your address was bouncing for at least 5 posts.To
 revert to a standard subscription, please log into the website - http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/ - and select "Edit your login details and mail list subscriptions" from the members home page and change the selection to"Full WSG list". You can change your subscription at any time and you can now select a different email address for WSG and WSGCMS list posts. You can also suspend email from these lists.To unsubscribe entirely and leave the group, please log into the website and select Unsubscribe from the members home page. You can reach Russ and Peter the list managers at [EMAIL PROTECTED]When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "WSG Digest"There are some problems with the Digest version. Our apologies for this. It is the way that SmarterMail handles it so that HTML email and attachments are not put into the digest as source code. We are STILL talking with the software developers about
 this.From: "Patrick H. Lauke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:14:50 +Subject: Re: [WSG] tabindexDesigner wrote: In an endeavor to 'be good', I've been putting tabindex on links just  lately. Certainly the WAI validator gives me a warning if I don't.Aeh...which validator would that be? It sound more to me like your validator is lying. However, it looks to me as though 'modern' browsers tab through the  links even without the tabindexTabbing through links has been a built-in browser functionality for quite some time. IE4, Netscape 4, etc all support tabbing. As it happens, the default taborder is the correct  (desired) one anyway - menu at the top, then a couple of links lower  down. So, should I be putting tabindex in, and if so, why?No, you don't need tabindex if the source
 order is already correct. And what's the current thinking on accesskey?Mostly useless, due to the way they were implemented. It's practically impossible to find enough key assignments that are guaranteed not to interfere with browser/assistive technology/operating system shortcuts.P-- Patrick H. Lauke__re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.ukhttp://redux.deviantart.com__Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Forcehttp://webstandards.org/__From: Designer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:19:44 +Subject: Re: [WSG] tabindexThank you Gentlemen,I'll strip the bloomin'
 things out again then!The validator I was using (Patrick) is the one which appears in the FF web developer toolbar ('validate WIA) and it's items 9.4 and 9.5 which warn me that:[/Rule: 9.4.1 - All Anchor, AREA, BUTTON, INPUT, OBJECT, SELECT and TEXTAREA elements are required to use the 'tabindex' attribute.* Warning - One or more Anchor, AREA, BUTTON, INPUT, OBJECT, SELECTand TEXTAREA elements do not use the 'tabindex' attribute./]--mutter mutter :-)Best Regards,Bob McClellandCornwall (UK)www.gwelanmor-internet.co.ukFrom: "Joseph R. B. Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:58:28 -0500Subject: Website Directory Structure - Best PracticeGreetings Friends,A topic I haven't seen posted here yet, that I feel is relevant when it comes to working to have a standard way of doing things.When it comes to website directory structure, I'm
 curious to know how you gurus out there set up yours.I myself, have been using this set up:root web folder-images-main.htm-events.htm-bio.htmetc, etcRecently I was hired to do some cleanup on a site I hadn't built and the directory was set up like:root web folder-main--images--main.htm-events--images--events.htm-bio--images--bio.htmetc, etcLooking at these two layouts, I first notice that the 2nd layout has multiple images folders, one for each page in fact. This sort of organizes the images better, but now there's images all over the place.How do YOU set up your directories?Joseph R. B. TaylorSites by Joe, LLChttp://sitesbyjoe.com(609)335-3076[EMAIL PROTECTED]From: Jay Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:31:32 

[WSG] Re: Digest mode has been set for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

2005-11-03 Thread Nancy Johnson
You haven't set me yet in digest mode yet. I'm still receiving 50 emails per day. Please change my settings.

Thank you

Nancywsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote:
Digest mode has been set for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
		 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

 

 

Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us

2005-06-09 Thread Nancy Johnson
I live in eastern US. Much as I would love to visit Austrailia, it is out of the question for now at least. 

I think some sort of video of your events would be great!

Nancyakella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
what about ukraine?there are four of usbut only two of us know each other...
On 6/9/05, Kvnmcwebn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
" Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies how it's really done? "how about northern ireland?**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list  getting help **-- glhf,akella. 
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Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.

Re: [WSG] make poverty history website

2005-05-19 Thread Nancy Johnson
I still have a question regarding Flash and Accessibility issues. 
Is it true that the W3C has not done a spec for Flash? If that is so why?

I believe that Flash has some accessibility features built in. How successful are they? 

Although Flash does many wonderful things, I have never considered accessible. I have also heard that If you build your entire website using Flash, search engines have a hard time finding your site. Is that true as well?

Nancy 

sam sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It all works in firefox for me. But then I have 1.0.4, also works fin in Opera 8 a joyful browser, better thab ff, apart from the absence of extensionsJust want to clarify that I did not work on the MPH site, I am using simular approach to them in terms of displaying flash content. I find it really nifty and by far the best approachdo any members of the list see any draw backs to the use of flashObject?is there a better method of putting flash in pages?thanks  SSMike Foskett wrote:Hi Sam,Is there a reason why http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/video/?pageVideo=/flv/clickuk512k.flv does not display in Firefox v1.0.3 ? Reading the associated articles it should do, and when it doesn't it should display an alternative text version, though MPH probably
 forgot.Mike 2k:)2 -Original Message-From: sam sherlock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 May 2005 17:13To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] make poverty history websiteHi List,I visited the www.makepovertyhistory.org website last night and was pleased to see that the site uses Geoff Sterns FlashObject. This seems to reaffirm my opinion that the flashObject method of placing flash in the page is more approprate than the MM object / embed code and flash satay or other technics used elsewhere.I consider this to be a real world issue in developing modern websites, standard or otherwise since flash and rich media is often an important part of the build of the site (clients and user like it when it works well)So I wanted to
 know what the list thinks of the flashObject technic and other alternatives out there?More info can be found on Flash Object here:http://blog.deconcept.com/2005/03/31/proper-flash-embedding-flashobject-best-practices/Flash Satayhttp://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/sIFRhttp://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/sifratb  SS**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list  getting helpThis email and any files transmitted with it are confidential andintended
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Re: [WSG] Color LCD Monitors vs traditional Monitors

2005-03-24 Thread Nancy Johnson
Thank you for all the feed back on LCD Monitors vs traditional monitors. I will look at all the suggestions.

Nancy
Paul Menard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Could be the color calibration on the LCD or 'traditional' CRT. Check out some tools like:http://www.colorvision.com/ (PANTONE Spyder - hardware based)http://www.easyrgb.com/calibrate.php Also if you own Photoshop it does have an adjustement tool that provides some color calibrationfor your system. I've heard some great things about the external 'spider' calibration tools fromthe designers at work.--- Nancy Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Dear Webstandards,  Are there any articles or standards out there that talk about how to pick colors for both LCD and traditional monitors?   I have a website that is an intense blue that looks great in a tradiational monitor but looks terrible in an LCD monitor.  Nancy Johnson  
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[WSG] Color LCD Monitors vs traditional Monitors

2005-03-22 Thread Nancy Johnson
Dear Webstandards,

Are there any articles or standards out there that talk about how to pick colors for both LCD and traditional monitors? 

I have a website that is an intense blue that looks great in a tradiational monitor but looks terrible in an LCD monitor.

Nancy Johnson
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Re: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)

2004-10-29 Thread Nancy Johnson
Thank you all for responding, and thank you for the link regarding forms.

As with div's, I am beginning to understand. Use them for overall layout, but if there is an alternative within a div tag not to use them, then don't use them. 

Take care,

Nancy

russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 1. Where can I find a good example of how forms should be laid out for accessibility.Try these:http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/support/Training/Online/webdesign/accessibility.html#formshttp://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/WSG_Oct_04/toc.html 2. Comment on div tags. If we are not suppose to use tables for layout and div tags are supposed to be used with restraint. What other options with layout are there?Are you referring to this:7. 
and elements have no real semantic meaning, so usethem judiciously. I'm not saying "don't use them", but if there is anotherelement that explains the content, use it instead!This seems to be talking more about the direct mark-up of content thanoverall positioning. With marking up content, the aim is to use the mostcorrect elements (the element that has the most meaning) where possible anduse divs only if needed.With overall layout, the aim is to get away from tables and unnecessary divs- there may be times when you can position an element directly. For example:If you use a 
for your navigation, you may not need to place the 
inside a 
- you could apply positioning style to the 
directly.However, if the nav also needed other elements, you would probably need towrap them all in a div and position that.Russ**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list  getting help**__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)

2004-10-28 Thread Nancy Johnson
I did not attend this conference and I read the article listed below. Maybe I am missing something.

1. Where can I find a good example of how forms should be laid out for accessibility.

2.Comment on div tags. If we are not suppose to use tables for layoutand div tags are supposed to be used with restraint. What other options with layout are there?

Nancy JohnsonJason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Greetings!I penned a bit of a summary of some of the things I learned at WE04,and Sitepoint have published it!http://www.sitepoint.comor straight to the article:http://www.sitepoint.com/article/essentials-modern-web-designDid I miss anything imprtant? Well, it's too late now if I did, but Ithink I covered mostly everything within the scope of the article.(Not everything at the conference mind you!)-- Jason FossAlmost Anything Desktop Publishingwww.almost-anything.com.auWindows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]North Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia"We can do almost anything!"**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list  getting
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RE: [WSG] PDF to HTML conversions

2004-10-07 Thread Nancy Johnson
As I said earlier, some .pdf's can be made accessible in the later versions of Acrobat Standard andProfessionalunder Tools and Accessibility. 

For those type of documents you can also open your .pdf document and do a "save as" and save it as a .doc or .rtf.

It will tell you if you cannot save itas a .doc or .rtf. It depends on how the .pdf was originally created.

Nancy Johnson
Web Usability [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,Sorry I am a bit late on this. While I haven't got a direct answer, I wrotean article about PDFs and Accessibility which might provide you with someuseful information.http://www.usability.com.au/resources/pdf.cfmI know some large organisations (at least one bank) use tools toautomatically convert PDFs to RTF - however, they have to then translate theinformation contained in things like graphs and flow charts by hand.Roger-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Behalf Of CHAUDHRY, BhuvneshSent: Tuesday, 5 October 2004 8:37 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] PDF to HTML conversionsHi,The WE04 was great but unfortunately none of the speakers discussed theissue of making PDF files accessible. I am currently facing
 thisproblem.Does anyone have ideas about the tools in market to convert PDF intoHTML or any other ways to make the PDF files accessible.Any thoughts would be welcome.ThanksBhuvnesh Chaudhry*This e-mail message (along with any attachments) is intended only for thenamed addressee and could contain information that is confidential orprivileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that anydissemination, copying or use of any of the information is prohibited.Please notify us immediately by return e-mail if you are not the intendedrecipient and delete all copies of the original message and attachments.This footnote also confirms that this message has been checked for
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Re: [WSG] PDF to HTML conversions

2004-10-05 Thread Nancy Johnson
Maybe this isn't exactly what your question is, but if you convert a document from something like Word to .pdf using Acrobat Standard or Professional, andthen you can add accessibility tags which is located under the Tools in the menu. 

JAWS reads this just fine. That is if the user has Acrobat Reader 5 or 6. I tested it at a friend ofmine's home who is blind. 

Weare so understaffed that we have to depend on .pdf files whether I like it or not. 
I also encourage any userwho cannot read the .pdf to email useand we will email them the .doc version. 

If all your documents were originally scanned in as jpegs, then they can never be made accessible. For those documents, I do try to let the user know. 

Nancy JohnsonAmit Karmakar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bhuvnesh,Try this also,http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/support/Training/Online/webdesign/accessibility.html#pluginsOn Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:38:44 +1000, Andrew Ivin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Hi Bhuvnesh,  I don't know if this may suit your needs, but google's search results for PDF's also provides a html version of the PDF.  On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:37:15 +1000, CHAUDHRY, Bhuvnesh   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:  Hi,   The WE04 was great but unfortunately none of the speakers discussed the  issue of making PDF files accessible. I am currently facing this  problem.   Does anyone have ideas about the tools in market to convert PDF into  HTML or any other ways to make the PDF files accessible.
   Any thoughts would be welcome.   Thanks   Bhuvnesh Chaudhry   *  This e-mail message (along with any attachments) is intended only for the named addressee and could contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any dissemination, copying or use of any of the information is prohibited. Please notify us immediately by return e-mail if you are not the intended recipient and delete all copies of the original message and attachments.   This footnote also confirms that this message has been checked for computer viruses.   *   ** 
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Re: [WSG] floating image

2004-10-04 Thread Nancy Johnson
Yes, this is exactly what I am interested in. Thank you for responding and I will try it out. 

I also want to thank all of you who have responded to my inquiry, and have set the emails aside.

I haven't had time to try them out, but intend to soon.

Nancy JohnsonLea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 07:58:51 -0700, Robin Button wrote: How can one have an image on the left with a caption below the image, and text on the right. I don't want to text to float around the image and I don't want to use a table.so you want:xxx lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum xxx lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum xxx lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum caption lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum ?Consider:

caption
lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum lorem epsum css:#captionedImageBlock div {background: url('animage.jpg') no-repeat;padding-top: Npx;float: left;width: Mpx;}#captionedImageBlock p {margin-left: Mpx;}where N is the height of the image and M is the width of the image (plus a little)You'd also want a little bit of spacing around the image, too.(Thank you for asking, I had a need for this on a page and the answer sprang straight into my head when I saw your question :))warmly,Lea-- Lea de GrootElysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/Brisbane, Australia**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledgeTo be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004See
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[WSG] Images without float

2004-09-30 Thread Nancy Johnson
How canone have an image on the left with a caption below the image, and text on the right. I don't want to text to float around the image and I don't want to use a table.

Thanks,

Nancy Johnson




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Re: [WSG] Image work around

2004-09-19 Thread Nancy Johnson
Hmmm, I'm sorry I must have inadverdently left out
some text.  

At www.guildinstitute.org, I have placed an image on
the left and text on the right.  Currently the text
and image are in a 2-column table to keep each in a
separate column.

How can I achieve the same thing using CSS? 

The style sheet I used comes from a Dreamweaver
template and has the images float left. 

http://www.guildinstitute.org/css/emx_nav_leftrev.css

Also, the image I understand is too large for those
who come to the website using a 600 by 800 display.  I
will have to reduce the size as well.  Is there an
ideal width for images these days?

Thank you,

Nancy Johnson



--- Lea de Groot
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:40:01 -0700 (PDT), Nancy
 Johnson wrote:
  What is the best way to have in css to have an
 image
  on the left with on the right  without using , but
  keeping  each in it's own column.
 
 I'm sorry, could you try phrasing that again?
 I don't seem to be able to validate your syntax.
 bg
 
 Lea
 -- 
 Lea de Groot
 Elysian Systems - http://elysiansystems.com/
 Brisbane, Australia

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[WSG] Image work around

2004-09-18 Thread Nancy Johnson
Dear all,

I realize this has been addressed before. 

What is the best way to have in css to have an image
on the left with on the right  without using , but
keeping  each in it's own column.

Currently I have a page where the image and text in a
table. The image is the size the client seems to like
but to large for 600 by 800 displays.  I am using 2
css styles sheets one for text and one that came from
a CSS Template in Dreamweaver.
http://www.guildinstitute.org

Thank You

Nancy Johnson




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RE: [WSG] Table within a div tag and IE

2004-09-09 Thread Nancy Johnson
Dear Jonothan,

Thank you, I will try your suggestions.  I agree I should use the style
sheet for tables.  I will begin to experiment with that. 

Take care,

Nancy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jonothan Stribling
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 3:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Table within a div tag and IE

A useful cludge is to nest the table in a div and give the div a width.

You should really remove all width, cellpadding, cellspacing from the
table into a style.

Cheers
jon


- Original Message -
From: Nancy Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 10:43:15 -0400
Subject: [WSG] Table within a div tag and IE
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 
 

Dear WSG, 

  

I'm sure this has been talked about before: 

  

I'm about to make live a master calendar for our organization. I've
set it up so there are data tables within a div tag. The tables are
set at a width of 75% and I did not put anything for a width with the
td tags.

  

The page looks great in IE, if I give the table a width of 75%.  If I
give the table a width of 100%, the right side goes off the page. IE
doesn't seem to page attention to the right margin within the div tag.

  

Within Netscape or Firefox, 75% width seems to mean 75% of the div
tag, so the table appears truncated.  These do better if I give the
table a width of 100%.

  

Changing the right hand margin of the div tag doesn't seem to help. 

  

Unfortunately, this page is not live so I cannot give you a link. 

  

Details below: 

  

  table width=75%  border=0 cellspacing=5 cellpadding=3 

 tr valign=top class=bodytext4a 

  td class=bodytext4aDate/td 

  td class=bodytext4aStart Time/td 

  td class=bodytext4aEnd Time/td 

  td class=bodytext4aDescription/td 

  td class=bodytext4aLocation/td 

  td class=bodytext4aContact/td 

/tr 

  

The remaining rows access data from a SQL Server database. 

'bodytext4a' is for formatting text.  Dreamweaver automatically adds
it to the td

  

I did not use the 'th' tags 

  

The CSS Style Sheet came from an online template that I have modified
over time.

  

The table is located within a div tag entitled middle 

  

  

Here is the CSS: 

  

#middle { 

margin: 10px 160px 20px 165px; 

padding: 20px; 

border: 0px none #80; 

background: #ff; 

} 

  

  

There is also a left id to this as follows: 

  

#left { 

position: absolute; 

top: 185px; 

left: 10px; 

margin: 5px; 

padding: 5px; 

border: thin solid #00; 

width: 150px; 

voice-family: \}\; 

voice-family:inherit; 

background: #CC; 

  

} 

htmlbody #left { 

width: 150px; 

margin: 5px; 

padding: 5px; 

border: thin solid #00; 

  

} 

  

  

Thanks, 

  

Nancy
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RE: [WSG] Unaccessible - NY Attorney General busts two big name sites

2004-08-23 Thread Nancy Johnson
Can his speech be put on your website in some form?

Nancy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of russ - maxdesign
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 2:49 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] Unaccessible - NY Attorney General busts two big name
sites

And of course, Bruce Maguire (the guy who sued SOCOG) will be speaking
about
accessibility and legal implications for Australian Developers at the
upcoming September WE04 conference.

:)
Russ




 Have you forgotten Sydney Olympics web site, it was 4 years ago the
Human
 Rights Commission awarded A$20,000 compensation in the Maguire vs.
SOCOG case.
 You can find it all here: http://www.contenu.nu/socog.html
 

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RE: [WSG] Doctype Javascript and accessibility

2004-08-11 Thread Nancy Johnson
Thank you all for you suggestions.  I think the older pages will go to
Contribute as is, and loose any include page possibilities, unless they
already end in .asp.   

The newer pages, I will use the template feature to recreate these. 

I can also look into reconfiguring of IIS to include handlers and
includes.

I act as webmaster, designer, and manager, without a real voice in
anything.  I have long been a proponent of all your suggestions, in web
management. 

The website needs to be rebuilt from scratch in a series of smaller
websites, with the marketing portion a priority.  The trustees wanted a
new look and almost hired a web developer, but do to many internal
political issues, this has been put on hold and I created a new
homepage.  

I could go on for pages and pages detailing the problems, issues,
politics and lack of communication that reflects on this website.

Being allowed to change to Contribute is a small victory. We are a
Microsoft Shop, which is actually a double victory for Contribute. 

Nancy Johnson


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Geoff Deering
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:22 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Doctype Javascript and accessibility

 -Original Message-
 From: Of Nancy Johnson
 Thanks to Patrick and yourself for responding.

 I am beginning the process of migrating an existing web site from
 FrontPage to Contribute.  I have always used the webbot feature for
 includes of footers and navigation.

 This is a website that has unfortunately multiple generations of html,
 and too many webpublishers with no experience are allowed to update
 content and more. Much as I would like to tear it down and rebuild it
 from scratch, it's not going to happen.

 I am having trouble with server side includes working with documents
 ending in .htm or .html.  They only seem to work with .asp documents.

This should be the default setting in the web server config; do not
parse
.htm or .html files as they are static HTML files and contain no server
instructions.

You can change this if you want/need, but then all htm/html docs will be
parsed, making your server work harder than maybe necessary.  Of course,
if
you have files with SS instructions in them that must be parsed, you
could
just change the filenames to .asp (and configure the server for
redirects).

I see your edu is using  Microsoft-IIS/6.0.  I haven't used it in a long
time, but it should have most/all/more features of Apache.

You could try and get the WebMaster to custom configure Includes,
Handlers, etc, the IIS equivalent of

http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_include.html
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/handler.html

Such an approach should not be a hack.  If you have a good team, I would
recommend it is time to really sit down and take a look at the problems
and
try to look at a whole range of issues to try to move forward in a
practical
way.  This includes developing proper server and content management
policies
and procedures.

In most medium to large organisations, if this is not done at a
reasonably
early stage, it never gets done, because when it is not done, it grows
out
of hand, and the cost to re-establish proper web publishing and server
management procedures just becomes to costly and time consuming to
reengineer.  As a consequence, many organisations run servers that are
poorly optimised from a SDLC point of view (not a SysOp view).  They are
just a maze of hacks and poor policy.

If you don't do this you will be adding hack after hack after hack.


 I just don't have the time to use the template feature in Dreamweaver
to
 create multiple templates for the multiple generations of webpages,
 which means rebuilding each page.

 This is a sample of what I have been using:
 !--#include file=facheader.htm--

 Any thoughts?

 In the distant past I used javascript to include a footer. It is only
on
 one or two pages:  http://www.wheelock.edu/news/NewsArchives.htm it is
 in the footer at the bottom.   Here is a link to the actual
javascript.
 http://www.wheelock.edu/news/newsfooter.js.

 Nancy Johnson

It's not a good idea to try and generate content client side if you can
do
it server side, infact, in such instances it can't comply with WCAG1 P1
because it won't work where client side scripting is turned off, so if
that
function is designed to generate essential content, there is no graceful
degradation path when applied to that context.

Geoff Deering

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RE: [WSG] Doctype Javascript and accessibility

2004-08-10 Thread Nancy Johnson
Thanks to Patrick and yourself for responding.  

I am beginning the process of migrating an existing web site from
FrontPage to Contribute.  I have always used the webbot feature for
includes of footers and navigation. 

This is a website that has unfortunately multiple generations of html,
and too many webpublishers with no experience are allowed to update
content and more. Much as I would like to tear it down and rebuild it
from scratch, it's not going to happen. 

I am having trouble with server side includes working with documents
ending in .htm or .html.  They only seem to work with .asp documents. 

I just don't have the time to use the template feature in Dreamweaver to
create multiple templates for the multiple generations of webpages,
which means rebuilding each page. 

This is a sample of what I have been using: 
!--#include file=facheader.htm-- 

Any thoughts?

In the distant past I used javascript to include a footer. It is only on
one or two pages:  http://www.wheelock.edu/news/NewsArchives.htm it is
in the footer at the bottom.   Here is a link to the actual javascript.
http://www.wheelock.edu/news/newsfooter.js. 

Nancy Johnson

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Vincent De Baere
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 4:40 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Doctype Javascript and accessibility

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:27:32 -0400
Nancy Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Does anyone know if a simple doctype javascript is accessible to text
 readers?

First of all: what do you mean by doctype javascript?

Second: what do you mean by text reader? A text-mode UA (à la lynx)?
Screen reader software?

In the first case (text-mode UA), it depends on the UA, however, IIRC
lynx does not support javascript. Keep in mind that search engines too
may not support javascript. That makes javascript-dependent navigation
one of the worst ideas ever IMHO.

In the second case it depends on the UA the screen reader is reading
from. I can imagine MSIE to execute the code on page load thus enabling
a screen reader to read the contents. However, I could be wrong on this
one...

 The javascript would be similar to the following:  

snip document.write();
snip script tag

Out of curiosity: why would you want content to be accessible depending
on whether or not the user has javascript activated? The way you're
writing those links to the page is causing me never to see it at all...
.
And if I want to contact you, i need to find my good old phone guide...
.
(heck, where's that one?)

Vincent

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RE: [WSG] Are wireframes necessary when using web standards?

2004-08-09 Thread Nancy Johnson
Thanks to all of you who responded to my question about wireframes. I
have a better idea now.

Nancy Johnson

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andy Budd
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 5:01 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Are wireframes necessary when using web standards?

 Showing my ignorance:

 Don't wireframes show flow only? Like the map view in Dreamweaver? Or 
 is
 it an actual possible design one creates often in Photoshop, though 
 this
 article indicated Freehand.

Hi Nancy,

Think storyboard, only without the graphical elements

Andy Budd

http://www.message.uk.com/

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[WSG] Doctype Javascript and accessibility

2004-08-09 Thread Nancy Johnson








Dear All,



Does anyone know if a simple doctype _javascript_ is accessible
to text readers?



The _javascript_ would be similar to the following: 



!-- Begin



document.write('a href=""
To Newslinks Archives HomePage/a . ');

document.write('a href="" Back
to Campus NewsLink Homepage/a . ');

document.write('a href=""
Home/a');

document.write('p Wheelock College, 200 The Riverway,
Boston, MA 02215-4176, ph.
617-879-2000/p');

document.write('p copy; 2003, Wheelock College /p');



// End --



I would link it to the webpage like the following: 



script language=_javascript_ src="">

 /script



Thanks,



Nancy








RE: [WSG] Are wireframes necessary when using web standards?

2004-08-06 Thread Nancy Johnson
Showing my ignorance:

Don't wireframes show flow only? Like the map view in Dreamweaver? Or is
it an actual possible design one creates often in Photoshop, though this
article indicated Freehand.

Nancy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andy Budd
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 5:19 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Are wireframes necessary when using web standards?

Ian Fenn wrote:

 My client wanted something to show internal stakeholders so I started 
 doing a few wireframes but suddenly wondered, Why am I doing this? 
 Why don't I just build the website using web standards?

 A day later I finished a working prototype of the website in question.

 The client is happy but another producer has been quite vocal with his

 opinion that the prototype was built too early.

 From my perspective, a prototype has more value than wireframes. Web 
 standards make development much more rapid, so we can respond quickly 
 to any other needs thrown up before going into production.

 What do you think?

Here's my take.

I think wireframes are a great first step in developing a site with a 
complex user flow. I'll often literally just sketch them on paper. They 
take no time at all and are very easy to change. Because they are 
rough, people don't get too attached to them as well, which is a bonus.

If I'm creating slightly more polished wireframes I'll do them in 
Freehand. I've all the widgets and templates created, so I can knock a 
batch of wireframes up very quickly. I can annotate them myself with 
instructions or print them out and have people scribble on them with 
suggestions. All very useful.

I can then hand them over to the client and they can sign each one off. 
This forces the client to understand and take responsibility for each 
wireframe and the signed off wireframes become part of our project 
spec.

HTML prototypes can be extremely useful as they give you and the client 
a real understanding of the user flow. It's fine looking through a 
batch of wireframes, but nothing gives you the feel of a website like, 
er, a website.

However I think you have to be a particularly gifted developer to be 
able to knock up a half descent HTML template in anything near the time 
it takes to create one in Freehand (or the graphics package of your 
choice).

Also for the HTML template to be as flexible as it's paper equivalent 
you really do need some mechanism for adding notes/instructions (like a 
div that you can toggle on and off) and allowing the client to comment 
and sign them off. Obviously as they are HTML there is no way you can 
really include them in your spec.

The other big issue is that people get very protective of their 'code'. 
I could see it being very tempting not to change something on a 
wireframe because it's a 'hassle' rather than for any strategic 
reasons. also their is the temptation to try and cut corners and turn 
your prototype into the real thing. Never a good idea in my book, as, 
by definition, a prototype is a rough, rushed version of what you 
actually want to build.

My position them would be to always wireframe and to build prototypes 
when you have the time/budget.

Andy Budd

http://www.message.uk.com/

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RE: [WSG] A California meeting? was Brisbane July Meeting - Report

2004-07-20 Thread Nancy Johnson
In Northeastern US, the states are geographically very small, so a New
England Chapter which encompasses about 6 states, or even a New York,
New England chapter 7 states may work. 

Is there anyway to organize your graph by region?

Nancy Johnson

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lachlan Hardy
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 7:11 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] A California meeting? was Brisbane July Meeting -
Report

Sean Corfield wrote:

   Question to Peter - is the city/state level membership information
 available in aggregate so we can figure out what might work for
 regional US meetings?

Well, I wouldn't dare speak for Peter, but the member location list he 
indicated previously in this discussion - 
http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/login_view.cfm? - is ordered from 
right to left. Therefore everyone is grouped according to country, then 
state, and then city

For example, there are around 30 members in California - 4 listed in San

Diego, 3 in LA, 3 in Sacramento, 3 in San Francisco and various others. 
So if, as someone suggested (Peter again?), everyone were to put the 
closest major city they are willing to attend a meeting at, those 
numbers might increase a bit

Cheers,
Lachlan

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RE: [WSG] A California meeting? was Brisbane July Meeting - Report

2004-07-19 Thread Nancy Johnson
Being from Boston, I can see attending a New England regional meeting
every few months. I noticed people from Massachusetts, VT, CT, and Maine
on the list, I cannot see flying to Chicago on a regular basis.

Nancy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sean Corfield
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 10:41 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] A California meeting? was Brisbane July Meeting -
Report

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 09:52:55 -0700, Tricia Fitzgerald [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 What about a more central USA location like Chicago, IL?

I suspect we'll end up having a whole bunch of regional meetings if
this is going to happen at all. I'm in the Bay Area, California and
Sacramento is *just* within reasonable reach to hold an evening
meeting, for *some* parts of the Bay Area. San Francisco is more
central (indeed, BACFUG - Bay Area ColdFusion User Group - meets in SF
and gets folks from Sacramento sometimes even tho' they have their own
UG).

I can see a Bay Area WSG meeting drawing folks from all over the Bay
Area - Sacramento to San Jose and maybe a little further afield. I can
also see an Orange County WSG meeting drawing folks from the greater
LA area and down as far as San Diego.

I don't see folks from the West Coast going to Chicago just for a WSG
meeting - a full-blown two day conference maybe, but not just a
meeting. Same with the East Coast folks (there should be a good
concentration of them to make a 'local' DC-based meeting worthwhile
I'd expect).

Question to Peter - is the city/state level membership information
available in aggregate so we can figure out what might work for
regional US meetings?
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RE: [WSG] Redesigning smh.com.au amp; theage.com.au with css

2004-06-21 Thread Nancy Johnson
Dear Russ,

This seemed like a very interesting meeting, would it be possible to
publish the actual CSS files?

Nancy Johnson

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of russ - maxdesign
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 11:23 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Redesigning smh.com.au amp; theage.com.au with css

Project Mars - Redesigning smh.com.au amp; theage.com.au with css

Peter Ottery put this presentation together for the Sydney meeting of
the
Web Standards Group on Thursday June 10, 2004. It outlines the process
he
and his team used to take the SMH and Age sites from table based layouts
to
full CSS.

Available as a 1mb pdf file:
http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/resource210.cfm

I'd like to thank Peter for making the presentation available to all.
Russ


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RE: [WSG] Safety experts advise switching browsers

2004-06-17 Thread Nancy Johnson
Most people I believe are unaware that there are multiple browsers.  If
this warning hits the network news, it may raise some awareness among
the average computer user.  

Most people have no idea what web standards are.

Nancy Johnson


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kay Smoljak
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:42 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Safety experts advise switching browsers

I guess it depends on the kinds of sites you visit (and perhaps what
you feed your dog) - I come across very few these days that don't look
ok in Firefox. And I don't just visit the sites of web standards
advocates, honest! Even all four of the internet banking applications
I use work fine in Firefox (although Westpac's main side nav doesn't
work, which doesn't prevent me from logging into the banking app).

-- 
Kay Smoljak
http://kay.smoljak.com

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:09:56 +0100, Joe Leech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I think the main problem with switching browsers is visible right
there
 on the page.  The header breaks in non IE browsers.  If the user is to
 switch browsers then there should be not detrimental effects to the
 experience.  Unfortunately too many sites are *IE only* and look like
a
 dogs dinner in anything else.
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RE: [WSG] Rant about Bobby

2004-06-10 Thread Nancy Johnson









Dear Group,



Ive come to use Bobby for one
reason and that is insuring that all images have alt tags. I manage a website
or at least try to where too many people have the ability to add content and
unfortunately other items to our website.



In my opinion the comments pages that come
up are too cumbersome and many comments do not address issues on my page but
possible issues or they are incorrect. It has also called me on a linking
issue where one word out of three was the same to describe two different links and
told me I shouldnt use the same description to describe different links.




Nancy Johnson



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Marc Greenstock
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004
11:41 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Rant about Bobby












RE: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their ac t

2004-06-08 Thread Nancy Johnson
Title: RE: [WSG] Action to force browser developers to clean up their act









If we are talking IE: Isnt the
problem is that Microsoft is going to integrate its next version of IE directly
into its operating system, which maybe an issue unto itself? Right or
wrong they dont want to spend the money to patch or upgrade the current browser.
Longhorn (the name of the next operating system) keeps getting postponed.




In the meantime, I think as a web
developer, one designs for the browser their users use. It would
take a special interest group, maybe one for some disability, to publicize that
using IE is inaccessible to them, and since IE is fairly accessible to most
groups, I dont see that happening.



Nancy Johnson







-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jamie Mason
Sent: Tuesday, June
 08, 2004 12:24 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: [WSG] Action to force
browser developers to clean up their ac t



Hi, 
I'd be happiest if an IE7.x came
that was completely standards compliant and auto updated itself (without a
facility to disable this) and if MS wanted to add any exclusive extras then
they did, but that everything else rendered exactly as the technology creators
intended. They get their extra stuff to try and win extra users with, and
developers who choose not to use those features still have their pages rendered
properly and if they do, those features didn't affect the non IE
excluisve components.

Hope that made sense :/ 

Jamie Mason: Design 
 



-Original Message- 
From: Nick Gleitzman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: 08 June 2004 16:57

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject: Re: [WSG] Action to force
browser developers to clean up their act 



On Wednesday, June 9, 2004, at 01:41 AM,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

 If we are going to make sites that only work in
certain browsers why 
 not just 
 code to IE's standards and not
bother with the obscure browsers like 
 firefox 
 and opera. That
way we don't need standards at all! I can have my 
 marquee 
 tag back and my ActiveX
controls - Ill be able to do all kinds of 
 great things. 
 After all nearly
everyone uses IE... 
 
 Seriously though, If you
are going to take this hardline attitude by 
 purposefully excluding users
of certain browsers then you may as well 
 do what I was saying
above. Don't loose site of the objective - with 
 standards we are

 trying to let more browsers
work with our sites not less. Don't get 
 too bitter 
 about IE people it's not good
for your health. 

No, no - I'm not suggesting for a second we should
*only* develop for 
IE, or any other certain browsers!
Just the opposite - I make a point 
of delivering my clients' message
to the maximum number of visitors. 
And I'm not bitter; just realistic.
That's why I say 'IE is here to 
stay'. Thanks to the many gurus
around, we have a whole menu of hacks 
available so we *can* deliver
Standards-driven sites to non-compliant 
browsers. 

I just think we have to keep an eye on the past, even
as we move 
forward. Someone said in a recent
post on another thread, 'IE/Mac is no 
longer being developed, so it's a
dead duck.' Huh? Did all the IE/Mac 
users just stop, there and then,
when that news was announced? No - and 
that's why I'll keep hacking for,
and testing in, the widest possible 
range of browsers I can. I owe it
to my clients. 

100% compliant browsers. Write once, publish anywhere.
It's the dream 
of Standards, right? I'm all for
it; I'll do my bit, and more. But it's 
not the real world - not yet.


Nick 
___

Omnivision. Websight.

http://www.omnivision.com.au/


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RE: [WSG] Reminder about Sydney meeting - Thursday 10 June

2004-06-03 Thread Nancy Johnson
Ah.. I wish I could attend but I live on the other side of the globe.
Are these presentations put on your website anywhere?

Nancy Johnson

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Russ Weakley - Maxdesign
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 5:47 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: [WSG] Reminder about Sydney meeting - Thursday 10 June

June WSG Meeting (Sydney)
Thursday 10 June, 2004

6:30pm - Informal start/Networking
7:00pm - Official start

Peter Ottery talks about converting the SMH and The Age to full CSS.
Should
be a very interesting presentation. Hope to see you all!

RSVP to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Presentation notes will be online for out-of-Sydney members soon after
the
event.

Thanks
Russ

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RE: [WSG] SkillSwap

2004-06-03 Thread Nancy Johnson
Looks interesting; thank you for sharing.  Is it located in England?

Nancy Johnson

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andy Budd
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 7:09 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] SkillSwap

Oops,

Sorry folks. Somehow I managed to send this to the wrong mailing list 
:-(

Don't I feel like a prat!


Andy Budd wrote:

 The next SkillSwap is running this monday. For more info, see 
 www.skillswap.org

Andy Budd

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RE: [WSG] javascript form submission

2004-05-19 Thread Nancy Johnson









Thanks I did not know that asp.net ran on
linux. I will look at the URL you sent.



Nancy



-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:31
PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] _javascript_ form
submission





If you are an ASP coder
and want to move to Linux then why not use ASP.NET? It will be a much easier
learning curve than PHP.











FYI: Many ASP.NET pages
run on Mono [C# compiler for Linux] including web services, and many DotNet
apps run without modification. 











The Mono website is http://mono.org.











woric











 Original Message
- 
Nancy Johnson wrote:





Dear All,This is a side track to this thread: I have always used .asp for formsubmission, but I want to find a _javascript_ and/or php versions of formsubmissions in case I have to do a site that does not have a windowsbased server. 

I think PHP is the way to
go, since it works on almost all servers out there, including Windows. 










RE: [WSG] javascript form submission

2004-05-18 Thread Nancy Johnson
Dear All,

This is a side track to this thread: I have always used .asp for form
submission, but I want to find a javascript and/or php versions of form
submissions in case I have to do a site that does not have a windows
based server. 

I am also weak with javascript and no nothing about php.  Can you point
me to some good URLS and/or books that could help me out?

Thanks in advance,

Nancy Johnson



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mordechai Peller
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 8:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] javascript form submission

Ned Lukies wrote:

I come from a programming rather than a design background, so my
opinion may 
not be the correct one as far as accessability is concerned. 
  

Since the issue is data validity, programming is what's important.

That said, something I find even more annoying is a large form that is 
validated on the server, which when presented again if there is a
validation 
error, has lost half the data you had submitted. 
  

That's just lazy programming. It is very easy to preload a form before 
shipping out to the browser. I recently had to reload a form completely 
client side, which is slightly trickier. (Needed to use JS and cookies, 
but since it was for a controlled audience, I could dictate the 
requirements.)
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RE: [WSG] Design Philosophy

2004-05-12 Thread Nancy Johnson
I have been following this thread and this is a wonderful answer.

Nancy Johnson

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mkear
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 9:45 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Design Philosophy

It seems to me that too many people confuse Design with artwork or
colours, pictures - the pretty stuff.But design goes a lot further
than that.  It's to do with DOES IT DO THE JOB IT'S FOR?.   A designer
has
to take account of the medium he's designing for.

A designer for a magazine has to think in terms or 4 or 6 colour
printing
presses, A4 paper size, space for headers, page numbers, gutter margins,
all
that stuff.

A designer of home electrical appliances has to think in terms of
safety,
fashion look, easy use for all people including children, people with
disabilities, colours dictated by the capabilities of the manufacturing
factory regarding powder coating or enamel, or plastics etc etc.

A designer of warships has to think in terms of huge bits of steel,
predominantly grey/green colouring, allowing for battle damage but still
keeping the ship functioning etc.

And a web designer doesn't have those parameters to work with.  A web
designer has to design with colours that may vary from user to user,
font
sizes (and therefore page layout) that differs from user to user, little
control over the browser the user's going to use now or in the future,
varying font sets.  If a designer comes up with a pretty-looking design
that
requires every browser to produce exactly the same look on a screen, and
doesn't have a way (i.e. CSS hacks etc) to make that happen in every
browser, then it's a poor design, no matter what it looks like because
it's
too inflexible.  I'd suggest that such a designer is probably still
thinking
like a magazine designer and isnt thinking in the medium he's working
with
yet.   One of the parameters of the medium a web designer has to learn
to
work with is that the output is FLEXIBLE.  If the design isn't flexible
it's
a poor design.

As an example (obvious perhaps but it will illustrate the point):  If
the
design requires a particular font to be installed then it's a poor
design. 
The design should allow for a variety of fonts.  A good design will look
different, but acceptable if the font displayed is one of a range of
fonts. 
  Similarly so with all the other parameters.   If the design requires a
colour to be rendered in precisely the same way on all users' machines,
it's
a poor design, because you have no control over users' monitors, and how
well they're maintained.


Designers who think they just handle the way a site looks aren't doing
all
their job.   It's conceivable you could have a gorgeous looking site
that is
poorly designed because it doesn't work properly in the browsers of the
target market.   Or it looks fantastic but its difficult to find the
information you're looking for.   It's also conceivable that a very well
designed site might be very boring to look at but functions very well
indeed.

In other words, if you're a web designer, and you think that is
roughly
the same as graphic artist you're a long way short of the mark.

Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com




Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2


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[WSG] preload images javascript

2004-05-11 Thread Nancy Johnson








Dear WSG,



Im not a big _javascript_ users, but I was wondering, does
a preload image _javascript_ speed up web pages that have many images?



njohnson








RE: [WSG] Looking for feedback

2004-04-28 Thread Nancy Johnson
Dear Andy,

Side note question. What is a browsercam account?  With only 3% of my
users using Opera, Mozilla and Safari, tend to look at Netscape and IE,
but I worry about the other browsers.

Thanks,

Nancy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andy Budd
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 12:41 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Looking for feedback

Design looks nice. Not to be rude, but is it a template or did you 
design it yourself?

Had a look in Safari. The header stuff is fine, but the main content is 
a little all over the place. Would probably be a good idea to get hold 
of a browsercam account.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 hey guys
  
 working on putting a design together at the moment, looking for some 
 feedback on the coding and some ways to improve it. it's just about 
 finished.
  
 link: http://www.wirenine.com/beta/
  
 thanks,
 chris


Andy Budd

http://www.message.uk.com/

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RE: [WSG] Looking for feedback

2004-04-28 Thread Nancy Johnson
Thank you so much, 

Nancy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of russ - maxdesign
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 9:03 AM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] Looking for feedback

Nancy, try here:
http://www.browsercam.com/


 Dear Andy,
 
 Side note question. What is a browsercam account?  With only 3% of my
 users using Opera, Mozilla and Safari, tend to look at Netscape and
IE,
 but I worry about the other browsers.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Nancy

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[WSG] RE: You have subscribed to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

2004-04-23 Thread Nancy Johnson
Dear WSG,

This group seems like a great group and will take advantage of the
information that I learn through the digest and visiting your website. 

I have always been interested in Web Standards, and have a special
interest in web accessibility.  Living in Massachusetts USA, means that
I probably will never attend a meeting.  Have you ever considered having
your meetings online somehow. I realize time may also be a factor, just
a thought.

Nancy Johnson

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 12:14 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: You have subscribed to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Welcome to The Web Standards Group.

Please read this message and store it for future reference. It contains
instructions for receiving the list in Digest Mode

WHO ARE WE?

The Web Standards Group is for web developers/designers who are
interested in web standards, CSS and (X)HTML and related topics.

The aim is to provide web developers/designers a forum (via our mailing
list and regular meetings) to discuss issues and  share knowledge in
standards-related web development.

We also aim to get the web standards message out to the web
development community, provide information/assistance to  developers who
have not yet embraced standards-based development.

POSTING MESSAGES

Messages to the list are sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

The mail list is for all of us. You can post about anything to do with
web standards - such as:

- in-progress sites for peer review 
- completed sites for peer review 
- interesting sites you come across that address web standards  well (or
poorly) 
- good  articles you find on web standards, CSS, (X)HTML and related
topics.  
- questions or problems you may have relating to web standards, CSS,
(X)HTML and related topics. 
- topics you'd like to open up for group discussion relating to web
standards, CSS, (X)HTML and related topics.

This list is not rigidly controlled, so don't be shy about posting.
Someone will tell you if a post is off topic!

Thanks for joining, Russ and Peter

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Send an email from your subscribed account to
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the BODY (not subject) and it will be so. 

The digest is a pain on some mail clients (Outlook and Eudora I think...
should be OK on Entourage I believe) as it separates into many
attachments to try an get around mixed content (text and HTML)
gracefully and SmarterTools have heeded our request to allow us to force
the digest to all text and this should be available in the next release
(SmarterMail 2.0).

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Commands to be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (used in the body
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RE: [WSG] RE: You have subscribed to wsg@webstandardsgroup.org

2004-04-23 Thread Nancy Johnson
Dear WSG,

Thank you all for responding.  I am still exploring your website and
what you have to offer since I discovered you all only this morning.

In reply to the individual who talked about the webstandards meetup:  I
joined a css meetup once, and I think I was the only one that signed up
in my area so it never happened.

I understand the limitations in setting up an online meeting, but would
support this if it could ever happen. If anyone in my area of New
England, ever wants to meet, I am game.

Take care,

Nancy Johnson

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of afdesign
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 11:11 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] RE: You have subscribed to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Welcome to the WSG Nancy!

Online meetings is not something that has been suggested as far as I 
know but maybe worth looking into if there is enough interest.

(Just a reminder that anyone with ideas like this can leave a comment to

the member feedback thread over at the discussion room- 
http://discuss.webstandardsgroup.org/archives/08.htm)

Just so you know by my count there as 9 members in the state of 
Massachusetts, 6 of whom live in Boston and 1 who lives near Boston. As 
a co-organiser of the Melbourne Group, that's about as many members as 
we had on the books when the decision to start a Melbourne Group was 
made. It just takes one or two people willing to get the thing off the 
ground.

The advantage? Apart from meeting like minded people and networking, you

can often solve a problems face to face alot quicker and easier.

So if there are any Boston types interested, maybe we can move this 
thread to the discussion room, so you can chat and get organised. That's

how the Brisbane group got off the ground.

cheers
dez

Dear WSG,

This group seems like a great group and will take advantage of the
information that I learn through the digest and visiting your website. 

I have always been interested in Web Standards, and have a special
interest in web accessibility.  Living in Massachusetts USA, means that
I probably will never attend a meeting.  Have you ever considered
having
your meetings online somehow. I realize time may also be a factor, just
a thought.

Nancy Johnson
  


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