Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

Stuart,

I did as you suggested.

I now have another bi-lingual site to do and was wondering if there  
is a way to mark up for languages (Italian/English) something like:


nome/name

span class perhaps? Seems like it would add a lot of bytes to the page.

The declared language on the document will be Italian, as most of the  
text will be in that language.



1.
You can use the "lang" attribute,





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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE weirdness

[Dennis Lapcewich]

Return Receipt
   
   Your   Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE  
   document:  weirdness
   
   wasDennis Lapcewich/R6/USDAFS   
   received
   by: 
   
   at:03/21/2007 08:21:22  
   






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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[BKDesign Solutions]

From: "Bob Schwartz"

OK. I've fixed them all but one and I'm at a loss to how to fix it.

Dreamweaver is complaining that I am using this more than once to  
point to different URL's


Any thoughts?

Bob


Get rid of dreamweaver? ;)

Bruce P
bkdesign



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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE weirdness

[BKDesign Solutions]

The below sounds like a good way to discourage using this list.

Bruce P
bkdesign
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:54 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE weirdness


Bob Schwartz wrote:

Lots and lots and lots of emails about his site! There were 6 I just
received  within a 30 min period, another 5 within 30 mins this morning
... :(

Bearing in mind that there's over 2000 people on the list, and that
there's already a lot of list traffic, and that all of these emails are
asking people for help on a site you're building, is it not possible to:

- reply off list to people
- send one big email
- try a little harder to work things out

Whilst we want an environment that's welcoming to people as they learn, do
bear in mind that every email you send goes to everyone on the list, and
maybe just consider if they're all necessary.

Mike
- writing purely in a personal capacity and not as a list core member






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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Stuart Foulstone]

Hi,

I think Dreamweaver is complaining about using the same link text to point
to different URLs not the other way round (It is OK to use different link
text to point to the same URL).

In your menu you have:

rss feed

Below you have another link to a different URL
(http://www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml)
which has an image with replacement link text alt="RSS Feed".

So, without images, one link text is "rss feed" the other "RSS Feed" which
are both the same to a screenreader.

yours,

Stuart




On Wed, March 21, 2007 11:13 am, Bob Schwartz wrote:

> Dreamweaver is complaining that I am using this more than once to
> point to different URL's
>
> http://www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml";> src="../../as/im/xml.gif" id="xml" alt="RSS Feed" title="FIFe RSS
> feed" width="72" height="15">
>
> The only other use of this URL is in the head:
>
>  href="http://www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml";>
>
> and on the page where I explain RSS:
>
> http://www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml";>http://
> www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml    id="xmlfeed" alt="RSS Feed" title="FIFe RSS feed" width="72"
> height="15">
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Bob
>
>
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-- 
Stuart Foulstone.
http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk
BigEasy Web Design
69 Flockton Court
Rockingham Street
Sheffield
S1 4EB

Tel. 07751 413451


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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

Stuart,

Your menu has links with the same anchor text but different  
destinations -

"introduction", "current" and "members".  When you can see the menu
structure the context is obvious but when using a screen reader  
this can

be confusing.


OK. I've fixed them all but one and I'm at a loss to how to fix it.

Dreamweaver is complaining that I am using this more than once to  
point to different URL's


http://www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml";>src="../../as/im/xml.gif" id="xml" alt="RSS Feed" title="FIFe RSS  
feed" width="72" height="15">


The only other use of this URL is in the head:

href="http://www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml";>


and on the page where I explain RSS:

http://www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml";>http:// 
www.fifeweb.org/feed/fife.xml   id="xmlfeed" alt="RSS Feed" title="FIFe RSS feed" width="72"  
height="15">


Any thoughts?

Bob


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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE weirdness

[Stuart Foulstone]

Hi,

Since Bob was effectively asking for a peer review of his web design prior
to publication, I would have thought this was an entirely legitimate use
of this forum.

We can all learn new techniques from each other as part of this process,
with the result that we all increase the quality of our Web design and
promote Web standards.

With appologies to those who know it all already. of course.


Stuart



On Wed, March 21, 2007 7:54 am, Mike Brown wrote:
> Bob Schwartz wrote:
>
> Lots and lots and lots of emails about his site! There were 6 I just
> received  within a 30 min period, another 5 within 30 mins this morning
> ... :(
>
> Bearing in mind that there's over 2000 people on the list, and that
> there's already a lot of list traffic, and that all of these emails are
> asking people for help on a site you're building, is it not possible to:
>
> - reply off list to people
> - send one big email
> - try a little harder to work things out
>
> Whilst we want an environment that's welcoming to people as they learn, do
> bear in mind that every email you send goes to everyone on the list, and
> maybe just consider if they're all necessary.
>
> Mike
> - writing purely in a personal capacity and not as a list core member
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Stuart Foulstone.
http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk
BigEasy Web Design
69 Flockton Court
Rockingham Street
Sheffield
S1 4EB

Tel. 07751 413451


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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE weirdness

[Mike Brown]

Bob Schwartz wrote:

Lots and lots and lots of emails about his site! There were 6 I just
received  within a 30 min period, another 5 within 30 mins this morning
... :(

Bearing in mind that there's over 2000 people on the list, and that
there's already a lot of list traffic, and that all of these emails are
asking people for help on a site you're building, is it not possible to:

- reply off list to people
- send one big email
- try a little harder to work things out

Whilst we want an environment that's welcoming to people as they learn, do
bear in mind that every email you send goes to everyone on the list, and
maybe just consider if they're all necessary.

Mike
- writing purely in a personal capacity and not as a list core member






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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

Philip,

It looks like the site may have problems displaying at widths of  
less than
1000px in Opera 9 and Firefox.  The backgrounds don't stay within  
the three
columns properly, leaving some text unreadable.  Probably an issue  
with div
positioning, and the box model since the problem doesn't seem to  
show up in

IE -- which is what you presumably used to test the positioning.


Got a fix? It's the body background (faux column)image that is  
shifting in FF.



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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

 Kenny,


Your cites should probably not be in their own paragraphs if the cite
can be styled directly.


I took the cites out of the paragraphs and the page did not pass w3  
validation, I put them back in and it did.


Bob


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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

In my primary style sheet I got 29 warnings like this:

Same colors for color and background-color in two contexts .month and h5

As there are no h5's with a .month class anywhere in the site, I  
would assume I can just ignore these types of warnings, but it bugs  
me that the style sheet does not validate "cleanly" just the same.



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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

I ran my style sheets through the w3 validator and in the style sheet  
that comes with ThickBox I got the following errors.


They seem to me to be CSS hacks that the author has used to solve  
problems with different browsers.


Should I leave them, or fix them?

#TB_overlay
Parse Error - opacity=60)

#TB_overlay
Property -moz-opacity doesn't exist : 0.6

#TB_overlay
Property opacity doesn't exist : 0.6

#TB_HideSelect
Parse Error - opacity=0)

#TB_HideSelect
Property -moz-opacity doesn't exist : 0

#TB_HideSelect
Property opacity doesn't exist : 0

#TB_iframeContent
Property _margin-bottom doesn't exist : 1px



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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

OK, you convinced me.

Your reason for doing so is far more valid than my lame reasoning  
with the Danone and Armani examples.


Thanks.



On Tue, March 20, 2007 11:56 am, Bob Schwartz wrote:

You should also perhaps markup your "logo" H1 content as a change
from the
declared natural language of the page (English).


Thanks for you tips Stuart:

1. How do I do that?
2.I'm curious as to why you  think it is necessary - it is the name
of the association - I doubt if Danone or Armani marks their names up
as French or Italian on their English sites.




I did say "perhaps".

1.
You can use the "lang" attribute,


2.
The idea is that speech synthesizers will pronouce it correctly and
braille generators will be able to substitute the appropriate control
codes.


I was thinking more in terms of Web standards, rather than the  
standards
of other Websites (Danone - 260 coding errors errors on home page;  
Armani

- Flash!)


Stuart




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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Stuart Foulstone]

On Tue, March 20, 2007 11:56 am, Bob Schwartz wrote:
>> You should also perhaps markup your "logo" H1 content as a change
>> from the
>> declared natural language of the page (English).
>
> Thanks for you tips Stuart:
>
> 1. How do I do that?
> 2.I'm curious as to why you  think it is necessary - it is the name
> of the association - I doubt if Danone or Armani marks their names up
> as French or Italian on their English sites.
>
>

I did say "perhaps".

1.
You can use the "lang" attribute,


2.
The idea is that speech synthesizers will pronouce it correctly and 
braille generators will be able to substitute the appropriate control
codes.


I was thinking more in terms of Web standards, rather than the standards
of other Websites (Danone - 260 coding errors errors on home page; Armani
- Flash!)


Stuart

-- 
Stuart Foulstone.
http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk
BigEasy Web Design
69 Flockton Court
Rockingham Street
Sheffield
S1 4EB

Tel. 07751 413451


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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE weirdness

[Jorge Laranjo]

An try to use http://www.sidar.org/hera/ (you can choose you're  
language) to check your site
And you're site has 1 error for the Priority 3: Keyboard shortcuts:  
No keyboard shortcuts provided.



Em 2007/03/20, às 18:46, Bob Schwartz escreveu:

In the test site I put up the other day for "scrutiny" http:/// 
www.fotografics.it/fife/


I have discovered a funny one with IE 6

If you go to organization --->commissions---> any commission except  
show


you should see an image beside the list of names.

The image is attached as a background to the div holding the names

(try with FF)

on IE 6 they are not showing up.

Is there some hack I should know about, but don't?

Bob



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--
Atentamente,
Jorge Laranjo

email> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
gTalk > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
msn > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
aim > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
skype> jorge.laranjo
http://www.olhares.com/fueg0/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fueg0/
http://concursosdefotografia.blogspot.com/






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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE weirdness

[Jorge Laranjo]

The '&' should be escaped as &

You can see that you've only got one 'warning' and that's it! http:// 
tinyurl.com/2m4pey




Em 2007/03/20, às 18:46, Bob Schwartz escreveu:

In the test site I put up the other day for "scrutiny" http:/// 
www.fotografics.it/fife/


I have discovered a funny one with IE 6

If you go to organization --->commissions---> any commission except  
show


you should see an image beside the list of names.

The image is attached as a background to the div holding the names

(try with FF)

on IE 6 they are not showing up.

Is there some hack I should know about, but don't?

Bob



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--
Atentamente,
Jorge Laranjo

email> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
gTalk > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
msn > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
aim > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
skype> jorge.laranjo
http://www.olhares.com/fueg0/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fueg0/
http://concursosdefotografia.blogspot.com/






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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

Rob,

The navigation is dependent on javascript for the flyouts which not  
only
do the flyouts cease to work when js is turned off they also become  
dead

links leaving only a partial working menu.


What browser - OS are you using?

In everything I've checked it in, the links are not dead with  
javascript turned off.


They do cease to work as flyouts, but instead  line up nicely one  
under the other.


Bob


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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

Stuart,

Your menu has links with the same anchor text but different  
destinations -

"introduction", "current" and "members".  When you can see the menu
structure the context is obvious but when using a screen reader  
this can


This is a real head-scratcher.

I'm having trouble finding other words that fit the space. but keep  
the meaning.


I'll work on it.

Thanks,

Bob


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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

 Nick,

As no screenreaders read title attributes by default (and no  
screenreader user ever changes the default setting, apparently) you  
aren't really deriving any benefit (at least in accessibility  
terms) from the title attributes, so they might as well go.


They were originally put there when I took over the site several  
years ago as a means of letting people know "what  was where" in the  
completely re-done site navigation.


I suppose they have out lived their usefulness, so will go.

Thanks for the tip.

Bob




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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

Thanks Kenny,


I would appreciate it if
you guys could check it out for any errors or "wrong practices"


Most/every page has two h1's, and there should only be one per page.
Ideally, you should keep the h1 for the page title, but not for the
site title.


I've fixed these (not yet uploaded to test server).


Your cites should probably not be in their own paragraphs if the cite
can be styled directly.


I've fixed these, too (not yet uploaded to test server) though I  
can't seem to get the exact styling (align-right) I want to work  
using css - the font-size does work, though. They look OK aligned left.



Other than that, looks great.


Thank you.



Some may also say that having a splash screen page (a page with no
other navigation other than "enter") is a bad practice, but I think
that's more a matter of personal preference.


I like it, the client likes it :-}

Olly Hodgson pointed out (here) that I should put links to the major  
sections of the site on it though, some I am studying a way to do that


Best,

Bob


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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Lyn Patterson]

During the planning for the site re-do we relied pretty heavily on a 
year's worth of visitor stats in making decisions.


One of the things our stats showed us was the very low percentage of 
800 x 600 and below visitors we had, plus people were complaining that 
the site was looking too small, so we bumped it up.


There was some discussion about keeping a lower res version, but the 
client ruled it out.

Thanks Bob - that's very interesting. Love the main page image!

Lyn
Western Web Design
www.westernwebdesign.com.au



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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

Thanks Lyn,

During the planning for the site re-do we relied pretty heavily on a  
year's worth of visitor stats in making decisions.


One of the things our stats showed us was the very low percentage of  
800 x 600 and below visitors we had, plus people were complaining  
that the site was looking too small, so we bumped it up.


There was some discussion about keeping a lower res version, but the  
client ruled it out.



Bob - I was wondering about the width of the #wrappers- 980px/960px  
which causes horizontal scrolling if viewed on a smaller screen  
resolution such as 800 x 600.  I have always tried to avoid  
horizontal scolling sometimes with great difficulty - does it not  
matter so much now that many people are using higher screen  
resolutions?




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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Bob Schwartz]

You should also perhaps markup your "logo" H1 content as a change  
from the

declared natural language of the page (English).


Thanks for you tips Stuart:

1. How do I do that?
2.I'm curious as to why you  think it is necessary - it is the name  
of the association - I doubt if Danone or Armani marks their names up  
as French or Italian on their English sites.




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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Lyn Patterson]

Bob - I was wondering about the width of the #wrappers- 980px/960px 
which causes horizontal scrolling if viewed on a smaller screen 
resolution such as 800 x 600.  I have always tried to avoid horizontal 
scolling sometimes with great difficulty - does it not matter so much 
now that many people are using higher screen resolutions?


Lyn
Western Web Design
www.westernwebdesign.com.au
  

The test site at

http://www.fotografics.it/fife/

has been refurbished to make it more standards compliant,

before moving on to the accessibility "layer" I would appreciate it if you
guys could check it out for any errors or "wrong practices"





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RE: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Philip Kiff]

Bob Schwartz wrote:
> The test site at
> http://www.fotografics.it/fife/
> has been refurbished [...] I would appreciate it
> if you guys could check it out for any errors or "wrong practices"

It looks like the site may have problems displaying at widths of less than
1000px in Opera 9 and Firefox.  The backgrounds don't stay within the three
columns properly, leaving some text unreadable.  Probably an issue with div
positioning, and the box model since the problem doesn't seem to show up in
IE -- which is what you presumably used to test the positioning.

Phil.



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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Rob Unsworth]

On Mon, 19 Mar 2007, Bob Schwartz wrote:

> The test site at
> 
> http://www.fotografics.it/fife/
> 
> has been refurbished to make it more standards compliant,
> 
> before moving on to the accessibility "layer" I would appreciate it if you
> guys could check it out for any errors or "wrong practices"

Bob, 

The navigation is dependent on javascript for the flyouts which not only 
do the flyouts cease to work when js is turned off they also become dead 
links leaving only a partial working menu.

This would be very confusing for a screen reader user.



-- 
Regards,  | Lions District 201 Q3
Rob Unsworth  | IT & Internet Chairman
Ipswich, Australia| http://www.lionsq3.asn.au
-



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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Stuart Foulstone]

Hi,

>From an WAI accessibility point of view:

Your menu has links with the same anchor text but different destinations -
"introduction", "current" and "members".  When you can see the menu
structure the context is obvious but when using a screen reader this can
be confusing.

You should also perhaps markup your "logo" H1 content as a change from the
declared natural language of the page (English).

Stuart

On Mon, March 19, 2007 2:42 pm, Bob Schwartz wrote:
> The test site at
>
> http://www.fotografics.it/fife/
>
> has been refurbished to make it more standards compliant,
>
> before moving on to the accessibility "layer" I would appreciate it
> if you guys could check it out for any errors or "wrong practices"
>
> Thanks,
>
> bob
>
>

-- 
Stuart Foulstone.
http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk
BigEasy Web Design
69 Flockton Court
Rockingham Street
Sheffield
S1 4EB

Tel. 07751 413451


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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Olly Hodgson]

On 3/19/07, Kenny Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Some may also say that having a splash screen page (a page with no
other navigation other than "enter") is a bad practice, but I think
that's more a matter of personal preference.


Personally, I'd have links to the major sections of the site, rather
that one small insignificant link at the bottom of the page. A
screen-reader user would have to trawl through the whole screen before
they could get into the meat of the site, which doesn't seem ideal.

On a non-accessibility tip, the header graphic appears to have quite
significant JPEG artifacts on my screen (they show up more on the
Macbook for some reason).  Also, the sub-menus on the left-hand
navigation appear, then grow slightly in size (in both Safari and
Camino on MacOSX). I'm not sure if that's intentional or not, but it's
a bit distracting.

Cheers,


--
Olly Hodgson
http://thinkdrastic.net/


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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Nick Fitzsimons]

On 19 Mar 2007, at 14:42:38, Bob Schwartz wrote:


The test site at

http://www.fotografics.it/fife/

has been refurbished to make it more standards compliant,

before moving on to the accessibility "layer" I would appreciate it  
if you guys could check it out for any errors or "wrong practices"


One thing I notice is that the links in the navigation have title  
attributes which, when they appear as a tooltip, obscure the contents  
of the submenus and of the menu items further down the page (I've  
looked in Safari and Firefox, BTW).


Of course, when you move off the link the tooltip vanishes, but it  
reminded me of something that one of the speakers (I believe it was  
Anne McMeekin of the Royal National Institute for the Blind)  
mentioned at the WSG London Accessibility meetup a couple of weeks  
ago: a partially-sighted user might well have a screen magnification  
of as much as 32 times normal (or more), and the appearance of a big  
yellow tooltip box obscuring the actual content is usually a major  
hindrance to them.


In this case, such a user might not even notice that a submenu (which  
could be partially off the right of their screen) had appeared, nor  
would they be able to scan down the main menu until the tooltip  
finally disappeared.


As no screenreaders read title attributes by default (and no  
screenreader user ever changes the default setting, apparently) you  
aren't really deriving any benefit (at least in accessibility terms)  
from the title attributes, so they might as well go.


Generally though I think it looks extremely good :-)

Cheers,

Nick.

(Apologies if I've misrepresented what was said at the WSG meetup,  
but I believe I've remembered it correctly :-)

--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/





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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Kenny Graham]

I would appreciate it if
you guys could check it out for any errors or "wrong practices"


Most/every page has two h1's, and there should only be one per page.
Ideally, you should keep the h1 for the page title, but not for the
site title.

Your cites should probably not be in their own paragraphs if the cite
can be styled directly.

Other than that, looks great.

Some may also say that having a splash screen page (a page with no
other navigation other than "enter") is a bad practice, but I think
that's more a matter of personal preference.


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Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time

[Joseph R. B. Taylor]

Looks pretty strong.

*Joseph R. B. Taylor*
Sites by Joe, LLC
/Custom Web Design & Development/
Phone: (609) 335-3076
www.sitesbyjoe.com 



Bob Schwartz wrote:

The test site at

http://www.fotografics.it/fife/

has been refurbished to make it more standards compliant,

before moving on to the accessibility "layer" I would appreciate it if 
you guys could check it out for any errors or "wrong practices"


Thanks,

bob


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