Re: [WSG] XHTML Issues

2005-12-02 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Bert Doorn wrote: I code in xhtml Strict and serve it as text/html. My code is future-proof, valid and well structured. Future proof from what? Do you really think any browser will ever drop support for HTML4? If I code in HTML4, there is less need for writing properly structured

Re: [WSG] XHTML Issues

2005-12-02 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
... I code in xhtml Strict and serve it as text/html. My code is future-proof, valid and well structured. If I code in HTML4, there is less need for writing properly structured documents. Too bad if quality of code depends on choice between HTML and XHTML. If at some point in the future

Re: [WSG] Re: the basics of Firefox (was RE: [WSG] BBC E-mail: Overhaul for Firefox web browser)

2005-12-02 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Adam Morris wrote: If I uninstall everything, will I lose all my bookmarks, prefs etc.? No, you won't, that's not how it works. However, as has been said several times on this list, this is not a Firefox support list. Look up information about the profile folder, how to backup your

Re: [WSG] XHTML Issues

2005-12-02 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Rimantas Liubertas wrote: It is pretty easy to check, all we need is some online tool which, given an url can resend page's content with application/xhtml+xml. Then grab those XHTML pages and see what happens. Try Hixie's content-type proxy.

Re: [WSG] XHTML Issues

2005-12-02 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
2005/12/2, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Rimantas Liubertas wrote: It is pretty easy to check, all we need is some online tool which, given an url can resend page's content with application/xhtml+xml. Then grab those XHTML pages and see what happens. Try Hixie's content-type proxy.

Re: [WSG] XHTML Issues

2005-12-02 Thread Christian Montoya
On 12/2/05, Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2005/12/2, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Rimantas Liubertas wrote: It is pretty easy to check, all we need is some online tool which, given an url can resend page's content with application/xhtml+xml. Then grab those XHTML

Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility

2005-12-02 Thread Geoff Deering
Lloyd wrote: Guys, Thanks for all the feedback! Backend is important as one of our content providers is blind. Does anyone know much more about Joomla? They are possibly prepared to upgrade (As they see this is just the same thing). I want to know whether its possible to do this with either

Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility

2005-12-02 Thread Rakesh Patil
Plz dont send me any mail onword.. otherwise i'll.!!1 On 12/1/05, Lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys,I have been asked to work on a web site and Mambo is the current CMSbeing used. They want to, if possible, keep Mambo as they're CMS but upon

Re: [WSG] XHTML Issues

2005-12-02 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Christian Montoya wrote: 2005/12/2, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Try Hixie's content-type proxy. http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/cgi/content-type-proxy/content-type-proxy Is this a trick? hr at the bottom of the page prevents it from handling xml. Any sort of xml. Now how am I going to

Re: [WSG] XHTML Issues

2005-12-02 Thread Christian Montoya
On 12/2/05, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/2/05, Rimantas Liubertas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2005/12/2, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Rimantas Liubertas wrote: It is pretty easy to check, all we need is some online tool which, given an url can resend page's

[WSG] UK Government Web standards - IE and serving issues...

2005-12-02 Thread Cameron Edwards
Following some of the very interesting UK .gov mails of late, I've been involved in a fierce debate about serving XHTML 1.0 STRICT either as application/xhtml+xml or text/html, content negotiation and the like - whether, in fact, the world is ready for XHTML etc Gurus argue for and against - at

Re: [WSG] UK Government Web standards - IE and serving issues...

2005-12-02 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Cameron Edwards wrote: Following some of the very interesting UK .gov mails of late, I've been involved in a fierce debate about serving XHTML 1.0 STRICT either as application/xhtml+xml or text/html, content negotiation and the like - whether, in fact, the world is ready for XHTML etc While I

RE: [WSG] UK Government Web standards - IE and serving issues...

2005-12-02 Thread Patrick Lauke
Cameron Edwards Following some of the very interesting UK .gov mails of late, I've been involved in a fierce debate about serving XHTML 1.0 STRICT either as application/xhtml+xml or text/html, content negotiation and the like - whether, in fact, the world is ready for XHTML etc Hmm...that

Re: [WSG] UK Government Web standards - IE and serving issues...

2005-12-02 Thread Daisy
Patrick Lauke wrote: (imagine your grandmother with her IE6 going to her local council website - after you finally got her to use the interweb - to find information on some opening times or whatever, only to be presented with a Open / Save as... dialog). Patrick, I'm a grandmother -- albeit a

RE: [WSG] UK Government Web standards - IE and serving issues...

2005-12-02 Thread Patrick Lauke
Daisy Could we drop the sexist (it's never a grandfather!), ageist digs at people who simply had the misfortune to be born 10, 20, 50 years too early? Fair enough, my sincere apologies. In my defence, the example was actually based on a real life example from a colleague of mine. Replace

RE: [WSG] UK Government Web standards - IE and serving issues...

2005-12-02 Thread Cameron Edwards
Patrick/Lachlan - many, many thanks for your input... ...clashing as it is in some regard. :o) I'd still prefer to deliver my site as XHTML 1.0 STRICT - if I serve it merely as text//html then I'm still covering the bases somewhat while elements of the world at large play catch-up. My mark-up

Re: [WSG] UK Government Web standards - IE and serving issues...

2005-12-02 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Patrick Lauke wrote: Daisy Could we drop the sexist (it's never a grandfather!), ageist digs at people who simply had the misfortune to be born 10, 20, 50 years too early? Replace my previous statement with something non-gender/non-age specific phrase to signify users who may have a average

political correctness (was RE: [WSG] UK Government Web standards - IE and serving issues...)

2005-12-02 Thread Patrick Lauke
Lachlan Hunt I'll be sure to make sure all my future examples use non-technologically inclined, gender indeterminent homo sapien instead. Sure it's a mouthful, but we mustn't be sexist. You can go overboard on political correctness, certainly...but Daisy's comment is very valid in my

Re: [WSG] Mambo Accessibility

2005-12-02 Thread David Nicol
Hi all, Weused Textpattern for http://www.bustahouse.com/and http://www.selfcateringshetland.com/ It's a really nice solution for putting together sites. My main concern with Textpattern is teaching clients how to use it, as the sections/categories model is sometimes a little tricky for them to

Re: [WSG] editor

2005-12-02 Thread Tom Livingston
On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 21:38:31 -0500, Steve Clason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd suggest avoiding WYSIWYG editors (Dreamweaver, Frontpage, etc.) FrontPlague, yes - avoid it. DreamWeaver 8, i'd think about. It's pricy (compared to NotePad and TextEdit), sure, but it has excellent CSS support

[WSG] Oracle/Peoplesoft and accessibility/standard code

2005-12-02 Thread Jesse Rodgers
Hi, I am getting the total run around here from developers on Oracle/Peoplesoft and I was hoping someone on this list could help. My couple questions: - Does anyone know of an accessible PeopleSoft built application? - Has the issue of PeopleSoft generated code been an issue or is the

Re: [WSG] Standards and Aesthetics

2005-12-02 Thread Jan Brasna
http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/2005/11/web_blandards.html + discussion at http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200511/standards_do_not_stifle_creativity/ -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com ** The

Re: [WSG] Re: UK Government Web Accessibility

2005-12-02 Thread Jan Brasna
accessibility is an optional extra or it's the usual yeah, everything we do is accessible. You know it isn't. Not neccessarily. If the producer is working with standards and approaching his task responsively, it should be included in his best practise. Micro-perfection of HTML tags and

Re: [WSG] Newcomers and Web Standards (was editor)

2005-12-02 Thread XStandard
[Lori wrote] I am new to (trying to learn how) constructing standards conforming web pages using XHTML and would like to know what HTML editor you folks that are light years ahead of me would recommend? [Lachlan wrote] Since you're new, you might want to stick with HTML4 Lachlan, here is a

Re: [WSG] Newcomers and Web Standards (was editor)

2005-12-02 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
... Lachlan, here is a classic example of a person new to Web Standards asking for a recommendation about which editor to use and instead you embroil this person in a debate over MIME types. Do you think this is a healthy environment for newcomers to learn about Web Standards? Why do you

[WSG] Site check and review please

2005-12-02 Thread Jad Madi
Hi, We have alpha launched itoot.net yesterday, please give me your opinion, feedback, criticism Thank you in advace. -- Regards Jad madi Blog http://jadmadi.net/ Web standards Planet http://W3planet.net/ ** The discussion list for

[WSG] Layout Check Please

2005-12-02 Thread Joseph R. B. Taylor
Guys, I'm on a PC with Firefox 1.5, IE 6.0 and Opera 8.5. Everything looks okay so far, but I was hoping some of you mac / linux guys could take a peek at this layout please. http://sausalito.sitesbyjoe.com/default.asp Thanks so much, Joe Taylor http://sitesbyjoe.com

Re: [WSG] Site check and review please

2005-12-02 Thread Rob Mientjes
On 12/2/05, Jad Madi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have alpha launched itoot.net yesterday, please give me your opinion, feedback, criticism Looks good, no issues. That is to say, no issues with design and performance. The about page could use some revisions. The quotation marks aren't pretty (in

Re: [WSG] Layout Check Please

2005-12-02 Thread Patrick Haney
Guys,  I'm on a PC with Firefox 1.5, IE 6.0 and Opera 8.5.  Everything looks okay so far, but I was hoping some of you mac / linux guys could take a peek at this layout please.http://sausalito.sitesbyjoe.com/default.asp Joe,Took a look at it with a few browsers in OS X 10.4.3, everything looks

Re: [WSG] Layout Check Please

2005-12-02 Thread James O'Neill
My only little comment is to either make the font size fo the nav bar a little bigger or to bold the text. The size of the font seems kind of hard to read verses the background.On 12/2/05, Patrick Haney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys, I'm on a PC with Firefox 1.5, IE 6.0 and Opera 8.5. Everything

Re: [WSG] Layout Check Please

2005-12-02 Thread Joseph R. B. Taylor
Can you please send me a screenshot of that chaos? If you care to, my email site [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you everyone! I wonder whats going wrong with IE/Mac? Joe Taylor http://sitesbyjoe.com Lucid Realm Design wrote: I'm running Mac OSX 10.2. It checks out on Firefox and Safari but on IE

Re: [WSG] Newcomers and Web Standards (was editor)

2005-12-02 Thread XStandard
Here is Hickson's reasoning as taken from http://www.hixie.ch/advocacy/xhtml 1. Authors write XHTML that makes assumptions that are only valid for tag soup or HTML4 UAs, and not XHTML UAs, and send it as text/html. 2. Authors find everything works fine. 3. Time passes. 4. Author decides to

Re: [WSG] Re: the basics of Firefox (was RE: [WSG] BBC E-mail: Overhaul for Firefox web browser)

2005-12-02 Thread Adam Morris
ok ok ok... don't get your knickers in a twist! I'll shut up about FF now!!xOn 02/12/05, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Adam Morris wrote: If I uninstall everything, will I lose all my bookmarks, prefs etc.? No, you won't, that's not how it works.However, as has been saidseveral times on

Re: [WSG] Newcomers and Web Standards (was editor)

2005-12-02 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Vlad Alexander (XStandard) wrote: Lachlan Hunt wrote: Lori Cole wrote: I am new to (trying to learn how) constructing standards conforming web pages using XHTML and would like to know what HTML editor you folks that are light years ahead of me would recommend? Since you're new, you might

Re: [WSG] Newcomers and Web Standards (was editor)

2005-12-02 Thread Matthew Cruickshank
Lachlan Hunt wrote: Yes. Why should we attempt to hide the truth from them, especially when they're just starting out and they need to lose/avoid any bad habits and mistakes as quickly as possible. Yours is a fringe and pedantic opinion, and you're being ridiculously harsh on XHTML. I'm

Re: [WSG] Newcomers and Web Standards (was editor)

2005-12-02 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
2005/12/2, XStandard Vlad Alexander [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So Rimantas, you have written invalid XHTML, served it as XML and then blamed XHTML because your Web site broke. Your assumption is wrong :) If you had written invalid HTML 4 and some User Agents had not parsed it correctly, would you

Re: [WSG] Newcomers and Web Standards (was editor)

2005-12-02 Thread XStandard
Lachlan, you have been on this list long enough to know that when you make extreme statements such as since you're new, you might want to stick with HTML4 or IE does not support XHTML, that debate will ensue. This is not what newcomers to Web Standards need. A better approach would have been to

[WSG] liquid widths

2005-12-02 Thread kvnmcwebn
Im only starting to play around with liquid layouts. I like this 3 column example that uses min widths. For non-mozilla browsers it uses horizontal rules to set the min scaling of the boxes. It then hides these from browser that support min width, it seems a bit reduntant to me but.

Re: [WSG] editor

2005-12-02 Thread James Ellis
Hi Lori Welcome to the list HTML Tidy is a third party tool, rather than an editor. It comes in very handy when you want to convert some code to standards compliant code. Your best introduction to Tidy is probably via the Firefox extension @

Re: [WSG] Oracle/Peoplesoft and accessibility/standard code

2005-12-02 Thread James Ellis
Hi You could try running it through HTML tidy... or maybe you could write your own frontend to their backend? Do you have some example pages? Cheers JamesOn 12/3/05, Jesse Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi,I am getting the total run around here from developers onOracle/Peoplesoft and I was

Re: [WSG] editor

2005-12-02 Thread Artemis
Could you pretty please elaborate on rubbish? I mean, I know what you're saying, but I am curious as to what code Frontpage and Dreamweaver puts out that is rubbish. I've seen it said so many times, but no one ever elaborates. Many thanks, Artemis Original Message From:

Re: [WSG] editor

2005-12-02 Thread Artemis
I'm confused lol. My personal site is XHTML and I don't get any popup box when viewing in IE. What is this ?xml? used for? Why would the average personal site need it? If you could explain in beginner speak, I would greatly appreciate it :) Artemis Original Message From:

Re: [WSG] Oracle/Peoplesoft and accessibility/standard code

2005-12-02 Thread Jesse Rodgers
Hey, Oh the code is horrid. No question. What I am being told is that Peoplesoft/Oracle are *working on it* and there is nothing the developer using the tools can do. Drill down into a discussion with a development team and you find out that if they do change the way the HTML is then

Re: [WSG] editor

2005-12-02 Thread Jay Gilmore
Artemis wrote: Could you pretty please elaborate on "rubbish"? I mean, I know what you're saying, but I am curious as to what code Frontpage and Dreamweaver puts out that is rubbish. I've seen it said so many times, but no one ever elaborates. Many thanks, Artemis