Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion

[Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明]

Aha, Bill.  Then why do you mentioned, "Just This"??

:-)

On 8/4/2010 8:12 PM, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:


JMJM,

I’m fine.  How are you?  I’ve been busy too – I like it that way.

The only difference between ‘Just THIS’ and ‘just IS’ is ‘TH’.

Seriously, and as I’ve said before, there is no difference between 
‘Just THIS’, ‘Mu’, ‘Dried Shit-Stick’, ‘The Oak Tree in the Garden’, 
Gutei’s raised finger - and your ‘just IS’.  They’re all just words or 
actions trying to communicate Buddha Nature – Just THIS!


…Bill!

*From:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] 
*On Behalf Of *Jue Miao Jing Ming - 

*Sent:* Thursday, August 05, 2010 9:09 AM
*To:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion

Hello Bill, How are you?  I was terribly busy.

Is there a difference between "just This"  and "just IS"?

:-)

On 8/4/2010 6:18 PM, billsm...@hhs1963.org 
<mailto:billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:


Just THIS!

…Bill!

*From:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Jue Miao Jing
Ming - 
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:52 PM
*To:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion

Smile on the last sentence... (no comment on the words before
that)...   If I may add.

With 5,000 plus words in Diamond Sutra, all it said was just,
"whatever you think it is, it is NOT.  It just IS.."

:-)


On 8/4/2010 8:29 AM, roloro1557 wrote:

Joe-

And another thing(s). . . .

When I said "I do these things because I can" - as in I am
responsible - where responsible = able to respond.

I *HELP* my neighbor. Just help her, that's all. I don't
liberate her or give her peace. I *FEED* the cats. Just feed
them, that's all. I don't liberate them or give them peace. I
do volunteer *WORK* at the library. Just volunteer work,
that's all. I don't liberate the library or give it peace. Geeze!

I would appreciate it if in the future you do not assume you
know what I mean. It's a pretty safe bet I don't mean what you
mean! Also please do not twist my words into something they
are not meant to say. If something is not clear to you, just ask.

This kind of stuff is why the old masters were so careful with
words and didn't talk so much!

Artie

=
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu




-- 


Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can

http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com  <http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com>

http://www.heartchan.org  <http://www.heartchan.org>



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--
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com  <http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com>
http://www.heartchan.org  <http://www.heartchan.org>



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--
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

RE: [Zen] Re: Compassion

[BillSmart]

JMJM,

 

I’m fine.  How are you?  I’ve been busy too – I like it that way.

 

The only difference between ‘Just THIS’ and ‘just IS’ is ‘TH’.

 

Seriously, and as I’ve said before, there is no difference between ‘Just THIS’, 
‘Mu’, ‘Dried Shit-Stick’, ‘The Oak Tree in the Garden’, Gutei’s raised finger - 
and your ‘just IS’.  They’re all just words or actions trying to communicate 
Buddha Nature – Just THIS!

 

…Bill!  

 

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Jue Miao Jing Ming - 
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 9:09 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion

 

  

Hello Bill, How are you?  I was terribly busy. 

Is there a difference between "just This"  and "just IS"?

:-) 

On 8/4/2010 6:18 PM, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: 

  

Just THIS!

 

…Bill!

 

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Jue Miao Jing Ming - 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:52 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion

 

  

Smile on the last sentence... (no comment on the words before that)...   If I 
may add.

With 5,000 plus words in Diamond Sutra, all it said was just, "whatever you 
think it is, it is NOT.  It just IS.."

:-) 


On 8/4/2010 8:29 AM, roloro1557 wrote: 

  

Joe-

And another thing(s). . . . 

When I said "I do these things because I can" - as in I am responsible - where 
responsible = able to respond.

I *HELP* my neighbor. Just help her, that's all. I don't liberate her or give 
her peace. I *FEED* the cats. Just feed them, that's all. I don't liberate them 
or give them peace. I do volunteer *WORK* at the library. Just volunteer work, 
that's all. I don't liberate the library or give it peace. Geeze!

I would appreciate it if in the future you do not assume you know what I mean. 
It's a pretty safe bet I don't mean what you mean! Also please do not twist my 
words into something they are not meant to say. If something is not clear to 
you, just ask.

This kind of stuff is why the old masters were so careful with words and didn't 
talk so much!

Artie

=
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu






-- 
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org



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-- 
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org





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[Zen] Re: Compassion

[maitreya003]

Artie,

I know (or at least think I do ) what you mean about animals.  i often 
experience that unspoken understanding and communication too.

Joe
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "roloro1557"  wrote:
>
> Joe,
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> I like compactness and economy of words, I like "a lot packed into a
> little" whenever possible. I do occasionally write more lenghty,
> essay-ish posts though.
> 
> Intentions are always open to interpretation, aren't they? Assumptions
> and concepts often get in the way, don't they?  Words are tools- like
> most tools they have certain safety issues and should be used with
> caution, yes?
> 
> This is why I like animals so much. No words - yet there is always
> communication and plenty of understanding :-) Or at least it's that way
> for me.
> 
> Artie
> 
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "maitreya003"  wrote:
> >
> >
> > I will not assume things.  A good idea if you don't want your
> intentions to be open to interpretation is to explain them.  Single
> lines have different meanings for different people, so use the lines,
> but then share the meaning they have for you. This way the need to tell
> me and Anthony you don't wish to explain yourself would not be
> necessary. If you are trying to make a point, express it.  But to make a
> point that is misunderstood and offer no understanding is a waste.  I
> will respect your wishes though.  If you post something, and I do not
> understand then I will ask your meaning and if you wish to you will
> expound on it, if not that's ok too.
> 
> 
> =
> FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
> The way to do is be. Lao Tzu
>






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Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion

[Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明]

Hello Bill, How are you?  I was terribly busy.

Is there a difference between "just This"  and "just IS"?

:-)

On 8/4/2010 6:18 PM, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:


Just THIS!

…Bill!

*From:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] 
*On Behalf Of *Jue Miao Jing Ming - 

*Sent:* Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:52 PM
*To:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion

Smile on the last sentence... (no comment on the words before that)... 
  If I may add.


With 5,000 plus words in Diamond Sutra, all it said was just, 
"whatever you think it is, it is NOT.  It just IS.."


:-)


On 8/4/2010 8:29 AM, roloro1557 wrote:

Joe-

And another thing(s). . . .

When I said "I do these things because I can" - as in I am
responsible - where responsible = able to respond.

I *HELP* my neighbor. Just help her, that's all. I don't liberate
her or give her peace. I *FEED* the cats. Just feed them, that's
all. I don't liberate them or give them peace. I do volunteer
*WORK* at the library. Just volunteer work, that's all. I don't
liberate the library or give it peace. Geeze!

I would appreciate it if in the future you do not assume you know
what I mean. It's a pretty safe bet I don't mean what you mean!
Also please do not twist my words into something they are not
meant to say. If something is not clear to you, just ask.

This kind of stuff is why the old masters were so careful with
words and didn't talk so much!

Artie

=
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu



--
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com  <http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com>
http://www.heartchan.org  <http://www.heartchan.org>



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--
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

[Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明]

Dear Mayka,

How are you?  I am concerned. Are you are seeking outward and not 
inward?  Are you expecting from or being dependent on TNH?


Are you being turned by situation (form)?

Concerned,
JM

On 8/4/2010 4:27 PM, Maria Lopez wrote:


This is a real Teacher:
/http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=armP8TfS9Is/ 

Someone that is there educating, correcting, guiding, present.  You 
won't ever see any good teacher of any subject absented from the 
classroom.  Watch the five documentary video and you'll understand the 
point I'm trying to make here.  When you reach to the last video 
you'll be seeing that Teacher leaves the children only when they have 
already learnt.  He doesn't leave the classroom in the hands of the 
children.  First he educates them and stay with them supervising...

Mayka

--- On *Thu, 5/8/10, Maria Lopez //* wrote:


From: Maria Lopez 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 5 August, 2010, 0:14

/Anthony;/
//
/I had just had an immaginary Teacher for many years.  He wasn't
real.  He was never present, or available, or guiding.
correcting.. .he was just a tape, video, dvd, book...I currently
see him more a kind of pleasant show to be watched and
listened rather than a real Teacher. /

/Mayka/

--- On *Wed, 4/8/10, Anthony Wu //* wrote:


From: Anthony Wu 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Wednesday, 4 August, 2010, 22:35

Mayka,
I am very glad you came back. As regards the difference you
talk about between Christianity and Buddhism, I agree to some
extent. The former is more emotional, more intending to help,
while the latter is trying to do away with emotions, which
they think are harmful. Nevertheless, I think it is too
premature for you to give up on TNH, who is a wonderful
personality.
Anthony

--- On *Thu, 5/8/10, Maria Lopez //* wrote:


From: Maria Lopez 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Thursday, 5 August, 2010, 12:13 AM

/Hi Mike, Anthony... and all of you.  How very kind of you
both to ask for me.  Not often this happens to me in
groups.  Hardly ever anyone miss me!. .  I've been away in
Spain most of July.  I have some access to internet but
not much and when I did this mail used mainly in
groups wasn't available. Besides I wasn't feeling much
talkative.  I had to renounce to the TNH retreat in the UK
because  I have some special needs and can travel alone
right now...The hardest part here was to finding out once
again that the only benefit I get from my sangha is the
sitting down together and that once that is finished is
better to thanks for the sitting in company and walk away
from them as far as possible.By the way and whatever
you all say, the Christian Communities do care a lot of
more for the vulnerable but the new western buddhist and
alike, don't give a dam!.  They may be all in maxim red
alert urgent need of oxygeno for themselves!./
//
/Thank you /
/Mayka/

--- On *Sun, 1/8/10, Anthony Wu //*
wrote:


From: Anthony Wu 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 23:01

Mike,
Zen is everyday life, so it is a project, a hobby and
everything you can think about.
Yes, I miss Mayka too.
Anthony

--- On *Sun, 1/8/10, mike brown //* wrote:


From: mike brown 
Subject: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 9:48 AM

Mayka,
I haven't been posting recently (most of the
topics are a bit too naff for me - makes Zen sound
like a hobby or some kind of a project). Anyway,
haven't seen you post for a while and I know you
have health issues in your family. Everything ok?
Mike







--
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

[Zen] Re: Compassion

[roloro1557]

Joe,

Thank you.

I like compactness and economy of words, I like "a lot packed into a
little" whenever possible. I do occasionally write more lenghty,
essay-ish posts though.

Intentions are always open to interpretation, aren't they? Assumptions
and concepts often get in the way, don't they?  Words are tools- like
most tools they have certain safety issues and should be used with
caution, yes?

This is why I like animals so much. No words - yet there is always
communication and plenty of understanding :-) Or at least it's that way
for me.

Artie


--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "maitreya003"  wrote:
>
>
> I will not assume things.  A good idea if you don't want your
intentions to be open to interpretation is to explain them.  Single
lines have different meanings for different people, so use the lines,
but then share the meaning they have for you. This way the need to tell
me and Anthony you don't wish to explain yourself would not be
necessary. If you are trying to make a point, express it.  But to make a
point that is misunderstood and offer no understanding is a waste.  I
will respect your wishes though.  If you post something, and I do not
understand then I will ask your meaning and if you wish to you will
expound on it, if not that's ok too.


=
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu

RE: [Zen] Re: Compassion

[BillSmart]

Just THIS!

 

…Bill!

 

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Jue Miao Jing Ming - 
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:52 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion

 

  

Smile on the last sentence... (no comment on the words before that)...   If I 
may add.

With 5,000 plus words in Diamond Sutra, all it said was just, "whatever you 
think it is, it is NOT.  It just IS.."

:-) 


On 8/4/2010 8:29 AM, roloro1557 wrote: 

  

Joe-

And another thing(s). . . . 

When I said "I do these things because I can" - as in I am responsible - where 
responsible = able to respond.

I *HELP* my neighbor. Just help her, that's all. I don't liberate her or give 
her peace. I *FEED* the cats. Just feed them, that's all. I don't liberate them 
or give them peace. I do volunteer *WORK* at the library. Just volunteer work, 
that's all. I don't liberate the library or give it peace. Geeze!

I would appreciate it if in the future you do not assume you know what I mean. 
It's a pretty safe bet I don't mean what you mean! Also please do not twist my 
words into something they are not meant to say. If something is not clear to 
you, just ask.

This kind of stuff is why the old masters were so careful with words and didn't 
talk so much!

Artie

=
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu





-- 
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org





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database 5341 (20100804) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

[BillSmart]

Anthony,

 

I don’t know what Buddhism’s view is vis-à-vis emotions, but in my zen practice 
emotions arise all the time.  I don’t try to ‘do away’ with them.  I accept 
them.

 

…Bill!

 

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Anthony Wu
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 4:35 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

 

  


Mayka,

 

I am very glad you came back. As regards the difference you talk about between 
Christianity and Buddhism, I agree to some extent. The former is more 
emotional, more intending to help, while the latter is trying to do away with 
emotions, which they think are harmful. Nevertheless, I think it is too 
premature for you to give up on TNH, who is a wonderful personality.

 

Anthony

--- On Thu, 5/8/10, Maria Lopez  wrote:


From: Maria Lopez 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 5 August, 2010, 12:13 AM

  


Hi Mike, Anthony... and all of you.  How very kind of you both to ask for me.  
Not often this happens to me in groups.  Hardly ever anyone miss me!. .  I've 
been away in Spain most of July.  I have some access to internet but not much 
and when I did this mail used mainly in groups wasn't available. Besides I 
wasn't feeling much talkative.  I had to renounce to the TNH retreat in the UK 
because  I have some special needs and can travel alone right now...The hardest 
part here was to finding out once again that the only benefit I get from my 
sangha is the sitting down together and that once that is finished is better to 
thanks for the sitting in company and walk away from them as far as possible.   
 By the way and whatever you all say, the Christian Communities do care a lot 
of more for the vulnerable but the new western buddhist and alike, don't give a 
dam!.  They may be all in maxim red alert urgent need of oxygeno for 
themselves!.

 

Thank you 

Mayka

 


--- On Sun, 1/8/10, Anthony Wu  wrote:


From: Anthony Wu 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 23:01

  


Mike,

 

Zen is everyday life, so it is a project, a hobby and everything you can think 
about.

 

Yes, I miss Mayka too.

 

Anthony

--- On Sun, 1/8/10, mike brown  wrote:


From: mike brown 
Subject: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 9:48 AM

  


Mayka,

 

I haven't been posting recently (most of the topics are a bit too naff for me - 
makes Zen sound like a hobby or some kind of a project). Anyway, haven't seen 
you post for a while and I know you have health issues in your family. 
Everything ok?

 

Mike

 





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database 5341 (20100804) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

RE: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

[BillSmart]

Mayka,

 

I’ve heard Jesus described as ‘an imaginary friend for grownups’, and I think 
to some extent that’s very true.  The same could be said of Buddha.  People 
create concepts of people or myths like these and use them to help cope with 
everyday life.  It’s a lot easier to rely on the teachings or imagined counsel 
of some ‘holy’ person than face life directly.

 

I agree with Anthony that for the most part TNH seems to be pretty well 
clued-in.  Remember, you’ve dealt with students of his, not TNH himself.

 

And in the end you can always be encouraged by the zen-inspired observations 
that: ‘Even the best zen master can’t enlighten an uncommitted student; but a 
committed student can become enlightened by a false zen master.’

 

…Bill!

 

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Maria Lopez
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:15 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

 

  


Anthony;

 

I had just had an immaginary Teacher for many years.  He wasn't real.  He was 
never present, or available, or guiding. correcting...he was just a tape, 
video, dvd, book...I currently see him more a kind of pleasant show to be 
watched and listened rather than a real Teacher. 

 

Mayka

 

 


--- On Wed, 4/8/10, Anthony Wu  wrote:


From: Anthony Wu 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 4 August, 2010, 22:35

  


Mayka,

 

I am very glad you came back. As regards the difference you talk about between 
Christianity and Buddhism, I agree to some extent. The former is more 
emotional, more intending to help, while the latter is trying to do away with 
emotions, which they think are harmful. Nevertheless, I think it is too 
premature for you to give up on TNH, who is a wonderful personality.

 

Anthony

--- On Thu, 5/8/10, Maria Lopez  wrote:


From: Maria Lopez 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Thursday, 5 August, 2010, 12:13 AM

  


Hi Mike, Anthony... and all of you.  How very kind of you both to ask for me.  
Not often this happens to me in groups.  Hardly ever anyone miss me!. .  I've 
been away in Spain most of July.  I have some access to internet but not much 
and when I did this mail used mainly in groups wasn't available. Besides I 
wasn't feeling much talkative.  I had to renounce to the TNH retreat in the UK 
because  I have some special needs and can travel alone right now...The hardest 
part here was to finding out once again that the only benefit I get from my 
sangha is the sitting down together and that once that is finished is better to 
thanks for the sitting in company and walk away from them as far as possible.   
 By the way and whatever you all say, the Christian Communities do care a lot 
of more for the vulnerable but the new western buddhist and alike, don't give a 
dam!.  They may be all in maxim red alert urgent need of oxygeno for 
themselves!.

 

Thank you 

Mayka

 


--- On Sun, 1/8/10, Anthony Wu  wrote:


From: Anthony Wu 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 23:01

  


Mike,

 

Zen is everyday life, so it is a project, a hobby and everything you can think 
about.

 

Yes, I miss Mayka too.

 

Anthony

--- On Sun, 1/8/10, mike brown  wrote:


From: mike brown 
Subject: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 9:48 AM

  


Mayka,

 

I haven't been posting recently (most of the topics are a bit too naff for me - 
makes Zen sound like a hobby or some kind of a project). Anyway, haven't seen 
you post for a while and I know you have health issues in your family. 
Everything ok?

 

Mike





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database 5341 (20100804) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

[Zen] Re: Compassion

[roloro1557]

Hi Anthony-

Well :-) I progressed through koan study, zenwise. And LIFE! otherwise
:-)

That is to say, I'm getting older, my living situation has changed, my
priorities have changed too. Lots of letting go :-)

Wanting (yes, attachment) to be more natural, real - as opposed to
meaningless convention, you know?

Artie :-)

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu  wrote:
>
> Artie,
>
> It occurred to me that a few years back you were not that way. How did
you progress?
>
> Anthony

=
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu

[Zen] Re: Compassion

[maitreya003]

Artie

I will not assume things.  A good idea if you don't want your intentions to be 
open to interpretation is to explain them.  Single lines have different 
meanings for different people, so use the lines, but then share the meaning 
they have for you. This way the need to tell me and Anthony you don't wish to 
explain yourself would not be necessary. If you are trying to make a point, 
express it.  But to make a point that is misunderstood and offer no 
understanding is a waste.  I will respect your wishes though.  If you post 
something, and I do not understand then I will ask your meaning and if you wish 
to you will expound on it, if not that's ok too.  
joe

Sorry if this is a duplicate message as my connection timed out when I sent it 
originally

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "roloro1557"  wrote:
>
> Joe-
> 
> And another thing(s). . . .
> 
> When I said "I do these things because I can" - as in I am responsible -
> where responsible = able to respond.
> 
> I *HELP* my neighbor. Just help her, that's all. I don't liberate her or
> give her peace. I *FEED* the cats. Just feed them, that's all. I don't
> liberate them or give them peace. I do volunteer *WORK* at the library.
> Just volunteer work, that's all. I don't liberate the library or give it
> peace. Geeze!
> 
> I would appreciate it if in the future you do not assume you know what I
> mean. It's a pretty safe bet I don't mean what you mean! Also please do
> not twist my words into something they are not meant to say. If
> something is not clear to you, just ask.
> 
> This kind of stuff is why the old masters were so careful with words and
> didn't talk so much!
> 
> Artie
> 
> =
> FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
> The way to do is be. Lao Tzu
>






Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
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Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

[Maria Lopez]

This is a real Teacher:
 
http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=armP8TfS9Is
 
Someone that is there educating, correcting, guiding, present.  You won't ever 
see any good teacher of any subject absented from the classroom.  Watch 
the five documentary video and you'll understand the point I'm trying to make 
here.  When you reach to the last video you'll be seeing that Teacher leaves 
the children only when they have already learnt.  He doesn't leave the 
classroom in the hands of the children.  First he educates them and stay with 
them supervising...
 
Mayka 

--- On Thu, 5/8/10, Maria Lopez  wrote:


From: Maria Lopez 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 5 August, 2010, 0:14


  








Anthony;
 
I had just had an immaginary Teacher for many years.  He wasn't real.  He was 
never present, or available, or guiding. correcting.. .he was just a tape, 
video, dvd, book...I currently see him more a kind of pleasant show to be 
watched and listened rather than a real Teacher. 
 
Mayka
 
 

--- On Wed, 4/8/10, Anthony Wu  wrote:


From: Anthony Wu 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Wednesday, 4 August, 2010, 22:35


  






Mayka,
 
I am very glad you came back. As regards the difference you talk about between 
Christianity and Buddhism, I agree to some extent. The former is more 
emotional, more intending to help, while the latter is trying to do away with 
emotions, which they think are harmful. Nevertheless, I think it is too 
premature for you to give up on TNH, who is a wonderful personality.
 
Anthony

--- On Thu, 5/8/10, Maria Lopez  wrote:


From: Maria Lopez 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Thursday, 5 August, 2010, 12:13 AM


  






Hi Mike, Anthony... and all of you.  How very kind of you both to ask for me.  
Not often this happens to me in groups.  Hardly ever anyone miss me!. .  I've 
been away in Spain most of July.  I have some access to internet but not much 
and when I did this mail used mainly in groups wasn't available. Besides I 
wasn't feeling much talkative.  I had to renounce to the TNH retreat in the UK 
because  I have some special needs and can travel alone right now...The hardest 
part here was to finding out once again that the only benefit I get from my 
sangha is the sitting down together and that once that is finished is better to 
thanks for the sitting in company and walk away from them as far as 
possible.    By the way and whatever you all say, the Christian Communities do 
care a lot of more for the vulnerable but the new western buddhist and alike, 
don't give a dam!.  They may be all in maxim red alert urgent need of oxygeno 
for themselves!.
 
Thank you 
Mayka
 

--- On Sun, 1/8/10, Anthony Wu  wrote:


From: Anthony Wu 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 23:01


  






Mike,
 
Zen is everyday life, so it is a project, a hobby and everything you can think 
about.
 
Yes, I miss Mayka too.
 
Anthony

--- On Sun, 1/8/10, mike brown  wrote:


From: mike brown 
Subject: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 9:48 AM


  






Mayka,
 
I haven't been posting recently (most of the topics are a bit too naff for me - 
makes Zen sound like a hobby or some kind of a project). Anyway, haven't seen 
you post for a while and I know you have health issues in your family. 
Everything ok?
 
Mike

Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

[Maria Lopez]

Anthony;
 
I had just had an immaginary Teacher for many years.  He wasn't real.  He was 
never present, or available, or guiding. correcting...he was just a tape, 
video, dvd, book...I currently see him more a kind of pleasant show to be 
watched and listened rather than a real Teacher. 
 
Mayka
 
 

--- On Wed, 4/8/10, Anthony Wu  wrote:


From: Anthony Wu 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 4 August, 2010, 22:35


  








Mayka,
 
I am very glad you came back. As regards the difference you talk about between 
Christianity and Buddhism, I agree to some extent. The former is more 
emotional, more intending to help, while the latter is trying to do away with 
emotions, which they think are harmful. Nevertheless, I think it is too 
premature for you to give up on TNH, who is a wonderful personality.
 
Anthony

--- On Thu, 5/8/10, Maria Lopez  wrote:


From: Maria Lopez 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Thursday, 5 August, 2010, 12:13 AM


  






Hi Mike, Anthony... and all of you.  How very kind of you both to ask for me.  
Not often this happens to me in groups.  Hardly ever anyone miss me!. .  I've 
been away in Spain most of July.  I have some access to internet but not much 
and when I did this mail used mainly in groups wasn't available. Besides I 
wasn't feeling much talkative.  I had to renounce to the TNH retreat in the UK 
because  I have some special needs and can travel alone right now...The hardest 
part here was to finding out once again that the only benefit I get from my 
sangha is the sitting down together and that once that is finished is better to 
thanks for the sitting in company and walk away from them as far as 
possible.    By the way and whatever you all say, the Christian Communities do 
care a lot of more for the vulnerable but the new western buddhist and alike, 
don't give a dam!.  They may be all in maxim red alert urgent need of oxygeno 
for themselves!.
 
Thank you 
Mayka
 

--- On Sun, 1/8/10, Anthony Wu  wrote:


From: Anthony Wu 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 23:01


  






Mike,
 
Zen is everyday life, so it is a project, a hobby and everything you can think 
about.
 
Yes, I miss Mayka too.
 
Anthony

--- On Sun, 1/8/10, mike brown  wrote:


From: mike brown 
Subject: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 9:48 AM


  






Mayka,
 
I haven't been posting recently (most of the topics are a bit too naff for me - 
makes Zen sound like a hobby or some kind of a project). Anyway, haven't seen 
you post for a while and I know you have health issues in your family. 
Everything ok?
 
Mike

Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

[Anthony Wu]

Mayka,
 
I am very glad you came back. As regards the difference you talk about between 
Christianity and Buddhism, I agree to some extent. The former is more 
emotional, more intending to help, while the latter is trying to do away with 
emotions, which they think are harmful. Nevertheless, I think it is too 
premature for you to give up on TNH, who is a wonderful personality.
 
Anthony

--- On Thu, 5/8/10, Maria Lopez  wrote:


From: Maria Lopez 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 5 August, 2010, 12:13 AM


  








Hi Mike, Anthony... and all of you.  How very kind of you both to ask for me.  
Not often this happens to me in groups.  Hardly ever anyone miss me!. .  I've 
been away in Spain most of July.  I have some access to internet but not much 
and when I did this mail used mainly in groups wasn't available. Besides I 
wasn't feeling much talkative.  I had to renounce to the TNH retreat in the UK 
because  I have some special needs and can travel alone right now...The hardest 
part here was to finding out once again that the only benefit I get from my 
sangha is the sitting down together and that once that is finished is better to 
thanks for the sitting in company and walk away from them as far as 
possible.    By the way and whatever you all say, the Christian Communities do 
care a lot of more for the vulnerable but the new western buddhist and alike, 
don't give a dam!.  They may be all in maxim red alert urgent need of oxygeno 
for themselves!.
 
Thank you 
Mayka
 

--- On Sun, 1/8/10, Anthony Wu  wrote:


From: Anthony Wu 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 23:01


  






Mike,
 
Zen is everyday life, so it is a project, a hobby and everything you can think 
about.
 
Yes, I miss Mayka too.
 
Anthony

--- On Sun, 1/8/10, mike brown  wrote:


From: mike brown 
Subject: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 9:48 AM


  






Mayka,
 
I haven't been posting recently (most of the topics are a bit too naff for me - 
makes Zen sound like a hobby or some kind of a project). Anyway, haven't seen 
you post for a while and I know you have health issues in your family. 
Everything ok?
 
Mike

RE: [Zen] Compassion

[Maria Lopez]

Hey Jody;
 
By the way, that one that walk away while the friend was grieving perhaps went 
away to put his own mask of oxigeno and got glued on it; he...! 
 
Mayka
 
 

--- On Wed, 4/8/10, Maria Lopez  wrote:


From: Maria Lopez 
Subject: RE: [Zen] Compassion
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 4 August, 2010, 22:00


  








Hi Jody;
 
Thanks for you empathy towards my person.  But as someone said: "Forgive them 
for they live in forgetfullness"  It is said that everything happens for a 
reason.  Perhaps the reason here is that I may not need from TNH any longer 
retreats.  One never knows when the bulb of enlightened is going to be switch 
on/off and find myself guiding the "Holy TNH!.  
 
Warm embrace
Mayka 
 
 
 
--- On Wed, 4/8/10, Jody W. Ianuzzi  wrote:


From: Jody W. Ianuzzi 
Subject: RE: [Zen] Compassion
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Wednesday, 4 August, 2010, 21:00


  

Hello Mayka,

Your message really disturbed me. I think the lack of compassion you found
in the meditation groups that you attended is terrible.

I have a good friend whose boyfriend calls himself a compassionate Buddhist
but when my friend's good friend died she sobbed for three hours and he just
walked out of the room. 

It just goes to show you that you can stand in a garage and call yourself a
car but you are not a car just like some people can call themselves Buddhist
and not be one.

JODY 

Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion

[Anthony Wu]

Artie,
 
It occurred to me that a few years back you were not that way. How did you 
progress?
 
Anthony

--- On Wed, 4/8/10, roloro1557  wrote:


From: roloro1557 
Subject: [Zen] Re: Compassion
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 4 August, 2010, 6:55 AM


  



Anthony-

Oh, so sorry, I misunderstood you! :-)

I agree completely with you about argument, and I prefer not to do it.

*sigh* However, such is the nature of people thinking they know, and of 
attachment. This is why, for me at least, practice is a daily thing.

Artie :-)

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu  wrote:
>
> Artie,
>  
> My comment is completely neutral. I don't expect you to explain yourself. I 
> like your way. Argument is not the right way, much less the zen way.

=
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu

RE: [Zen] Compassion

[Maria Lopez]

Hi Jody;
 
Thanks for you empathy towards my person.  But as someone said: "Forgive them 
for they live in forgetfullness"  It is said that everything happens for a 
reason.  Perhaps the reason here is that I may not need from TNH any longer 
retreats.  One never knows when the bulb of enlightened is going to be switch 
on/off and find myself guiding the "Holy TNH!.  
 
Warm embrace
Mayka 
 
 
 
--- On Wed, 4/8/10, Jody W. Ianuzzi  wrote:


From: Jody W. Ianuzzi 
Subject: RE: [Zen] Compassion
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 4 August, 2010, 21:00


  



Hello Mayka,

Your message really disturbed me. I think the lack of compassion you found
in the meditation groups that you attended is terrible.

I have a good friend whose boyfriend calls himself a compassionate Buddhist
but when my friend's good friend died she sobbed for three hours and he just
walked out of the room. 

It just goes to show you that you can stand in a garage and call yourself a
car but you are not a car just like some people can call themselves Buddhist
and not be one.

JODY 

RE: [Zen] Compassion

[Jody W. Ianuzzi]

Hello Mayka,

Your message really disturbed me.  I think the lack of compassion you found
in the meditation groups that you attended is terrible.

I have a good friend whose boyfriend calls himself a compassionate Buddhist
but when my friend's good friend died she sobbed for three hours and he just
walked out of the room.  

It just goes to show you that you can stand in a garage and call yourself a
car but you are not a car just like some people can call themselves Buddhist
and not be one.

JODY 





Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

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[Zen] Compassion

[Maria Lopez]

Talking about compassion, here I paste a first video from the five of them for 
your all enjoyment.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=armP8TfS9Is
 
Mayka

Re: [Zen] Re: Compassion

[Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明]

Smile on the last sentence... (no comment on the words before that)...   
If I may add.


With 5,000 plus words in Diamond Sutra, all it said was just, "whatever 
you think it is, it is NOT.  It just IS.."


:-)


On 8/4/2010 8:29 AM, roloro1557 wrote:


Joe-

And another thing(s). . . .

When I said "I do these things because I can" - as in I am responsible 
- where responsible = able to respond.


I *HELP* my neighbor. Just help her, that's all. I don't liberate her 
or give her peace. I *FEED* the cats. Just feed them, that's all. I 
don't liberate them or give them peace. I do volunteer *WORK* at the 
library. Just volunteer work, that's all. I don't liberate the library 
or give it peace. Geeze!


I would appreciate it if in the future you do not assume you know what 
I mean. It's a pretty safe bet I don't mean what you mean! Also please 
do not twist my words into something they are not meant to say. If 
something is not clear to you, just ask.


This kind of stuff is why the old masters were so careful with words 
and didn't talk so much!


Artie

=
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu




--
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

[Maria Lopez]

Hi Mike, Anthony... and all of you.  How very kind of you both to ask for me.  
Not often this happens to me in groups.  Hardly ever anyone miss me!. .  I've 
been away in Spain most of July.  I have some access to internet but not much 
and when I did this mail used mainly in groups wasn't available. Besides I 
wasn't feeling much talkative.  I had to renounce to the TNH retreat in the UK 
because  I have some special needs and can travel alone right now...The hardest 
part here was to finding out once again that the only benefit I get from my 
sangha is the sitting down together and that once that is finished is better to 
thanks for the sitting in company and walk away from them as far as 
possible.    By the way and whatever you all say, the Christian Communities do 
care a lot of more for the vulnerable but the new western buddhist and alike, 
don't give a dam!.  They may be all in maxim red alert urgent need of oxygeno 
for themselves!.
 
Thank you 
Mayka
 

--- On Sun, 1/8/10, Anthony Wu  wrote:


From: Anthony Wu 
Subject: Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 23:01


  








Mike,
 
Zen is everyday life, so it is a project, a hobby and everything you can think 
about.
 
Yes, I miss Mayka too.
 
Anthony

--- On Sun, 1/8/10, mike brown  wrote:


From: mike brown 
Subject: [Zen] Where's Mayka?
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Sunday, 1 August, 2010, 9:48 AM


  






Mayka,
 
I haven't been posting recently (most of the topics are a bit too naff for me - 
makes Zen sound like a hobby or some kind of a project). Anyway, haven't seen 
you post for a while and I know you have health issues in your family. 
Everything ok?
 
Mike

[Zen] Re: Why zazen may be easier for non-Westernized East Asians?

[roloro1557]

Hi ED-

Thanks for the interesting article :-)

I'm a student of Jung, and he wrote about the differences between east
and west, actually saying much the same thing about cultural
differences, without the sophisticated technology to back it up of
course. I find it really interesting that so many of his ideas are
turning out to be right on the mark. :-)

I have always suspected - in general - that what Easterners are actually
doing when they do zazen or meditate, is quite different than what
Westerners are doing. I would be interested to see a study on this.

Happily, zazen isn't the only way. As Bill! remarked in a recent post,
there is also koan study. It worked very well for me - still does :-)

Artie



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED"  wrote:
>
>
>
> Culture wires the brain: A cognitive neuroscience perspective
> August 3rd, 2010 in Medicine & Health / Psychology & Psychiatry
>

=
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu

[Zen] Re: Compassion

[roloro1557]

Joe-

And another thing(s). . . .

When I said "I do these things because I can" - as in I am responsible -
where responsible = able to respond.

I *HELP* my neighbor. Just help her, that's all. I don't liberate her or
give her peace. I *FEED* the cats. Just feed them, that's all. I don't
liberate them or give them peace. I do volunteer *WORK* at the library.
Just volunteer work, that's all. I don't liberate the library or give it
peace. Geeze!

I would appreciate it if in the future you do not assume you know what I
mean. It's a pretty safe bet I don't mean what you mean! Also please do
not twist my words into something they are not meant to say. If
something is not clear to you, just ask.

This kind of stuff is why the old masters were so careful with words and
didn't talk so much!

Artie

=
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu

[Zen] Why zazen may be easier for non-Westernized East Asians?

[ED]

Culture wires the brain: A cognitive neuroscience perspective
August 3rd, 2010 in Medicine & Health / Psychology & Psychiatry




Where you grow up can have a big impact on the food you eat, the clothes
you wear, and even how your brain works. In a report in a special
section on Culture and Psychology in Perspectives on Psychological
Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science,
psychological scientists Denise C. Park from the University of Texas at
Dallas and Chih-Mao Huang from the University of Illinois at
Urbana-Champaign discuss ways in which brain structure and function may
be influenced by culture.

There is evidence that the collectivist nature of East Asian cultures
versus individualistic Western cultures affects both brain and behavior.
East Asians tend to process information in a global manner whereas
Westerners tend to focus on individual objects.

There are differences between East Asians and Westerners with respect to
attention, categorization, and reasoning.

For example, in one study, after viewing pictures of fish swimming,
Japanese volunteers were more likely to remember contextual details of
the image than were American volunteers. Experiments tracking
participants' eye movements revealed that Westerners spend more time
looking at focal objects while Chinese volunteers look more at the
background.

In addition, our culture may play a role in the way we process facial
information. Research has indicated that when viewing faces, East Asians
focus on the central region of faces while Westerners look more broadly,
focusing on both the eyes and mouth.

Examining changes in cognitive processes—how we think—over time
can provide information about the aging process as well as any
culture-related changes that may occur.

When it comes to free recall, working memory, and processing speed,
aging has a greater impact than does culture—the decline in these
functions is a result of aging and not cultural experience.

Park and Huang note that, "with age, both cultures would move towards a
more balanced representation of self and others, leading Westerners to
become less oriented to self and East Asians to conceivably become more
self-focused."

While numerous studies suggest that culture may affect neural function,
there is also limited evidence for the effect of cultural experiences on
brain structure. A recent study conducted by Park and Michael Chee of
Duke/National University of Singapore showed evidence for thicker
frontal cortex (areas involved in reasoning) in Westerners compared to
East Asians, whereas East Asians had thicker cortex in perceptual areas.

Park and Huang observe that using neuroimaging to study the impact of
culture on neuroanatomy faces many challenges. They write, "The data are
collected from two groups of participants who typically differ in many
systematic ways besides their cultural values, rendering interpretation
of any differences found quite difficult." In addition, for each study,
it is important that the MRI machines use identical imaging hardware and
software.

The authors conclude, "This research is an important domain for
understanding the malleability of the human brain and how differences in
values and social milieus sculpt the brain's structure and function."

Provided by Association for Psychological Science



"Culture wires the brain: A cognitive neuroscience perspective." August
3rd, 2010. www.physorg.com/news200062422.html

Re: [Zen] Speaking of people who are missed. . .

[roloro1557]

Ok Edgar, we want photos!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu  wrote:
>
> Edgar,
>
> What are your 'other things'? Fighting alligators? Supporting Tantric
rituals?
>
> Anthony

=
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu

[Zen] Re: Compassion

[roloro1557]

Joe,

Anthony has inspired me, and I have changed my mind. I have decided to
answer you, but only to correct your assumptions and misconceptions. I
won't argue with you. I have nothing to defend or prove.

When I said: "The farmer scatters seed, he doesn't make it grow. The
seed would grow no matter who scatters it, or even if it's just
scattered by the wind." You took me literally. What I meant is: My
neighbor would be just as "helped" if Bill! or Anthony or you helped her
- the cats would be just as "fed" if Bill! or Anthony or you fed them -
the work at the library would be just as "done" if Bill! or Anthony or
you did it. I don't labor under the same illusions and concepts as you
do. I don't think or believe my actions of helping, feeding, and working
are liberating anyone, or bringing anyone peace, or somehow helping the
world. I do these things because I can. I'm no bodhisattva, and I'm no
zen master, I'm no Mother Theresa. I'm me. I do what I do, usually and
mostly because I want to.

I said "Trying to change others is like trying to cover the earth with
leather to protect your feet from stones and thorns. It is much easier
to put on shoes."

You then said:
THis is meant to bring peace to a being who goes through the world
affected by
everyone else. If you want to be happy and you go about it by changing
every
one else you will fail, so change your self. However Trying to help
others, not
merely to control your own upset caused by others, is not found in this
saying.
It was intended to help a person that always blames others for their own
unhappiness.

Well, all I can say is, I would prefer you not tell me what things mean
to me. I can interpret things for myself just fine, thank you.

What that statement means to me is that there will always be people in
the world who do distasteful, cruel, and awful things; lying, cheating,
stealing, raping, and killing. These are the stones and thorns. Putting
on shoes means doing what I can to protect myself. Then I am in a
position to help others. I think trying to stop these things is a waste
of energy - and NO this doesn't mean I somehow "approve" of lying and
cheating and stealing and raping and killing. It means I think my energy
is better spent in protecting myself as best I can and trying to help
the people who are victims of these things.

I said, "Don't draw another's bow, don't ride another's horse, don't
mind another's business. Mind your own business. --Dahui"

Again misapplied. When someone is being raped, don't help. When someone
asks
for help tell them it is their business. When a seial rapist is
captured, let
him go. When an addict is suffering don't offer help. Where is the
balance in
this?

This is not at all what I meant, and I don't like the inflammatory and
accusational tone of your statement. Of course I would try to help a
rape victim. Of course I would try to help someone who asks me for help.
Of course I don't think serial rapists should be let go. Of course I
think addicts should be helped.

You were being critical of other people's zen, that is what I meant. You
don't know the individualities and idiosyncrasies of someone else's bow,
or horse, or zen or beingness! No one can judge someone else's zen! No.
Not even you!

Artie

=
FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
The way to do is be. Lao Tzu