On 12/12/2012 12:49 AM, Bill! wrote:
You're beginning to sound like a sour grapes Tea Bagger.
Bill, your 'realization' would be revealed as pretense by this alone,
but we also have your endorsement of communism to remove all doubt. You
have not only revealed your/self/, but the fox who
On 12/12/2012 8:08 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Democracy is a huge failure, because it elects not the best qualified
to solve real problems, but the best liars, bull shitters, and those
most willing to prostitute themselves to their corporate and banker
masters.
This is true, of course, but I
On 12/12/2012 7:15 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
taxes, like death, are just part of life
Taxes are so dangerous because they enhance and sustain government
power, which is pernicious due to the imperfections of human nature, and
because they destroy economic productivity, which impoverishes
On 12/12/2012 3:21 AM, mike brown wrote:
I`m not sure that certain ethic groups do have a higher propensity to
wage war.
It sounds as if you are unfamiliar with both the anthropology and
genetic data. For the anthropology I suggest Napoleon Chagnon; for a
glimpse at the tip of a genetic
On 12/12/2012 10:48 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Now is the time for the Churchill quote about democracy being the
worst form of government except for all the alternatives.
Like hard cases making bad law, pithy comments can make for poor
reasoning. IS democracy /really/ better than all the
On 12/12/2012 11:48 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Is this the system you think would be better than our tax based system?
You seem to be under the misapprehension that because I foresee
something I must 'want' all aspects of it.
I live in California
So, if you can't already recognize a
On 12/12/2012 12:33 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Is this the system you think would be better than our tax based
system?
You seem to be under the misapprehension that because I foresee
something I must 'want' all aspects of it.
You wrote of some better system than
On 12/12/2012 1:24 PM, Joe wrote:
I see the evil of state and national lotteries for the reason in your
final clause
Very true, one might regard them as a tax on the desperate and those
ignorant of the implication of statistics. They are particularly
pernicious in that they make such a /few,
On 12/12/2012 1:09 PM, Joe wrote:
RAF,
Overruled!
Get outta that 'host seat'!
To paraphrase the dialog from Butch and Sundance: there /ARE NO/ rules
in a zen-fight ... let alone /over/rules.
RAF
On 12/12/2012 2:05 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
So the US of 1792 or changed relatively continuously, according to the
initial rules, into the current US, so it can't be any better as a
system than what we have now, right?
Wrong; the degenerate condition we have now is worse than the republic
On 12/12/2012 5:31 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
The system hasn't been overturned - you can't evaluate the
Constitution as a system without looking at what happened, how it
worked out.
I am saying it started out a representative republic; it is now
socialism becoming a communist tyranny,
On 12/12/2012 8:00 PM, Joe wrote:
Communism will never catch on in USA
I hope you are right, not that I am a fan of the status quo or think
/it/ can prevent collapse of the over-populated technostate. I just see
a communist tyranny as another burden of misery that people don't need
to
Joe,
I was very impressed by this:
By the time Vinoba had reached the conference, two thousand acres had
been given back to the poorest villagers. Inspired by Vinoba's work,
Vimala also walked across India from east to west and north to south and
eventually ten million acres of land was
On 12/11/2012 5:49 AM, mike brown wrote:
what does that say about the American people/culture and the dropping
of the atomic bomb on those 2 civilian populated cities?
First, let me say that I believe the US DROVE the Japanese into that
war, and that the American people who supported that,
On 12/11/2012 8:51 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Any generosity on the part of the government
The main problem with government generosity is that the government
doesn't HAVE anything to give that it did not TAKE from someone. Now
some user fees, and resource extraction taxes, etc... are more or less
On 12/11/2012 3:02 AM, Bill! wrote:
when I said 'sincere student' I meant a person who is sincerely
seeking relief from suffering.
Thank you; I had wondered if that quotation about sincerity (in response
to my query about what light some of these teachers had emitted) was a
hint that it was
On 12/11/2012 11:01 AM, Joe wrote:
I disagree with your simply statement. I find it simplistic.
That is unsurprising, as most people accept the idea that if a MAJORITY
of your fellow inhabitants of a territory agree to rob you, and divide
the loot according to a democratic procedure that it
Chris,
I find this a very congenial response:
On 12/11/2012 1:04 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Can one's belief in personal ownership be an attachment, a hindrance
to the mind's freedom?
No doubt, but I found poverty and concerns about how to provide for my
family to have been a much
On 12/11/2012 1:59 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Is there some other society you wish you'd been born into rather that
the one you were?
Not the kind of thing I dwell on, but, since you ask, I consider it
karma to have been born where/when I was and to have the opportunity to
encounter both
On 12/11/2012 2:55 PM, ChrisAustinLane wrote:
Of course current science predicts rather grim things long term
anyways - difficult to envision any non-reversible computation lasting
more than a hundred trillion years or so from now.
Chris, I am /glad/ you think the way you do.
As the poster
On 12/11/2012 7:23 PM, mike brown wrote:
those of us too young to be guilty..
How does that line above fit in with the genetic propensity to drop
nuclear bombs on Japan (or at least wage war)?
Short answer: a baby already has genetic propensities, but has not had
time to manifest many of
On 12/10/2012 4:36 AM, Merle Lester wrote:
indeed bill! merle
'Even the most talented teacher cannot bring an insincere student to
realization; but a sincere student can come to realization under even a
false teacher.'
Making the reasonable inference that the use of so many
On 12/9/2012 10:15 PM, Bill! wrote:
a sincere student
I have no reason to doubt the truth of that statement, but it raises a
question in my mind, in regard to what qualifies a student to be
considered sincere, /and by whom/? Obviously, if someone 'hangs
around' a zendo or sangha for some
On 12/10/2012 1:47 PM, Joe wrote:
there are two other conditions which must obtain. These are, that the
student must want to teach; and, that the student must be ABLE to teach.
Thank you for this informative response; that is the kind of thing I've
had no opportunity to learn in my isolated
On 12/10/2012 5:57 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
raf...bill and i have an understanding as to what
bill!!! means...ask him...it is not as mysterious as
you might believe...nothing what so ever to be zenful about
Okay, thanks for an explanation.
RAF
On 12/10/2012 6:00 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
his understandable decision NOT to 'care for and share with' every
wandering rice-bag who wanted to live off the charity of those who
supported the monastery.RAF. Please explain what you mean by this
RAF...?
What it means is that the abbots
On 12/10/2012 7:24 PM, Merle Lester wrote:
if a man needth shelter and food for a thousand nights that is what
must be done in the name of universal love and compassion.
Yeah? I wish you could explain your superior vision of the dharma to
those old abbots; I'd like to witness their reactions.
On 12/10/2012 9:33 PM, Joe wrote:
those old places lived on the handouts and donations of others,
already!, themselves!, and they had to be very, very careful about who
they let in.
Very true, but even today, let us imagine merle walking up to a modern
American zen center and telling them
On 12/9/2012 11:10 AM, Joe wrote:
There are confirmatory signs which a teacher can recognize
I find myself more interested in the occasions when a /teacher/ emits a
sign of /their/ illumination. Might you, or Bill, share with us some
instances you have encountered in your time immersed in
On 12/9/2012 12:34 PM, Joe:
:it's personal and can be misleading to others,
Yeah, but I sure am glad someone thought it worthwhile to record the
incident where Ikkyu was asked for a practice suitable to a layman, and
he gave all of /us/ attention.
On 12/8/2012 11:31 AM, yonyon...@gmail.com wrote:
I've always felt that Catholic contemplatives ... were all
bodhisattvas in their own right.
Now that the dharma of no dharma has been promulgated, what other
dharmas could there be?
RAF
On 12/8/2012 1:24 PM, Joe wrote:
the practices and states attained are different
Exactly. And the hint I was dropping here (while trying not to be
overtly critical) is that one who leads others into any path but the Way
of vast emptiness /with nothing holy in it/ can hardly be regarded as a
On 11/30/2012 11:45 PM, Joe wrote:
The golden glow of the low cook-fire; the golden light of Samadhi. The
identity of the Community and its lineage, and its storehouse of
wisdom and stories. It goes 'way back. This is no modern Invention.
I sense that we are all on the same page about this.
On 12/1/2012 7:53 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
I'm surprised you don't have a wood stove instead of a fireplace with
a blower.
We live in a poorly designed faux-chalet that was built by the previous
owner, and have just made-do all these years as first we hung on working
in a hard-scrabble
Edgar and RAF,
Why are you concerned with Hindu Cycles? Don't we have to get
through the Aztec Calendar thingy first?
Actually, Bill, I'm pretty sure it is the MAYAN calendar thingy, but
what the heck, it is all just THIS! and THAT! anyway, right?
Now, there are several aspects to my
On 11/30/2012 7:48 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
A silver dime should be no problem...
Yeah, dimes are the way to go. Spending silver ounces would involve
taking too much fiat-garbage in change, for most purchases. Also, the
circulated character of old dimes makes them self-authenticating,
whereas
On 11/30/2012 12:53 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
I had no idea!
About what?
I'm sorry -
About what?
I've sent you $50 (via PayPal) to help out.
I can't accept it. I would say 'thank you anyway', but the idea that you
would just suddenly send me $50 as an expression of your generosity
On 11/30/2012 1:43 PM, Joe wrote:
The significance is the 10,000 Things, in One.
The Ten Thousand things return to the One: what does the One return to?
And the ringing of it or the striking of it would be its function in
the Zendo
I like the idea!
You are right though, about what a
On 11/30/2012 8:03 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
What's your water source?
A small stream whose watershed lies on NF land abutting our northern
boundary. I pick up the water in a roll-pipe somewhat more than 100
vertical feet above the house so we have pressurized-water. A bit of a
nuisance to keep
Bill:
What does EP mean?
Evolutionary Psychology, and by extension, in common usage, the body of
adapted behavior in humans mediated by genetic propensity.
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it
On 11/30/2012 7:55 PM, Bill! wrote:
I've experimented around with electric power generation (solar and
wind) and still haven't found any that are more cost-effective, much
less more efficient and 'green', then the community grid.
True. I just want my own power source so that when the power
On 11/30/2012 7:59 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
But Bill uses Zen (capitalized) to refer to the historical Buddhist
sect (which I refer to as zen (uncapitalized since it's less important
than Zen)).
Okay, thanks for that explanation. I usually capitalize it simply as a
sign of respect, though when
On 11/30/2012 10:45 PM, Bill! wrote:
So are your efforts to be able to produce your own electricity based
on a desire for:
1. constancy (as in a temporary back-up)
RAF
On 11/29/2012 12:05 AM, Joe wrote:
RAF,
It's a dubious welcome, when it comes to demise. ;-)
Is your view... well... informed by WHAT?
As I mentioned in reference to 'vast emptiness', having already learned
of the scientific views of cosmology and astronomy (at least as then
promulgated)
On 11/29/2012 2:39 PM, Joe wrote:
Come clean
I drink home-made wine
Feed critters, sow, attend, reap
Is this Zen? Who cares?!
On 11/29/2012 2:39 PM, Joe wrote:
I put no stock in prophecy.
Nor do I ... until it comes true/is revealed to be scientifically valid,
whereupon I take an interest in the Way that enabled that revelation.
Projecting from trends, *maybe*.
As I said, extant scientific data is sufficient to
On 11/29/2012 4:08 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
Nice poem and certainly to the point!
gassho
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
On 11/29/2012 4:40 PM, Joe wrote:
That translation was always in error.
/What/ translation was in error? What is the correct rendering of
whatever it is you are writing about?
RAF
On 11/29/2012 6:55 PM, Joe wrote:
So, what's going on in *your* life? ...
You wrote lines about wine and animals.
I live as a semi-recluse in a forested cove in the mountains of western
NC; by semi I mean that I drive into town to buy supplies when I need
to, but otherwise prefer to remain
On 11/29/2012 8:09 PM, Joe wrote:
Yet, to see her sky aright, I must leave town, myself.
Not much light pollution here, except a small town to the south; nearest
real cities are a hundred miles away behind mountain ranges, and I'm at
~ 3000 feet, so we have some pretty night skies, and an
On 11/29/2012 8:40 PM, Joe wrote:
Hope you saw it last night, both the moon and Jupiter
The moon just rose above the ridge a little while ago, behind the bare
branches of the trees; very dramatic, with a strong halo ... pink outer
ring and an inner white to faintly golden ring almost as wide
On 11/28/2012 8:40 AM, Edgar Owen wrote:
My take on the Boddhisattva vow is that the best way, in fact the ONLY
effective way, to enlighten other beings is to manifest one's own
realization in the world as an example...
Yeah, and /that/ is already a full-time job ;-)
RAF
On 11/28/2012 2:46 AM, Joe wrote:
Wu li would be something like Physics.
Yes, clearly I have conflated the terms in my recollection of reading
that book, several decades ago: it was said that the Chinese term for
physics is 'Wu Li', or patterns of organic energy.
It's a different Wu, and
On 11/28/2012 2:40 AM, Joe wrote:
There's nothing wrong with the Bodhisattva vows; ... it helps to make
them. I mean, to make them helps us to wake up.
I am glad that it has been helpful to you, and others. In my own case, I
feel good about NOT taking the vow, and not least because it
On 11/28/2012 10:09 AM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
denial of the response, denial of the moment of social awkwardness is
not the path
I agree.
Often I am tempted to pretend not to perceive the slight - to be all
who is it that could get offended but that is a bull shit pushing
away the sensory
On 11/28/2012 11:32 AM, Joe wrote:
The book by that journalist was pretty thin stuff, on both Physics and
the mysticism
I agree. At the time I had not yet developed my own ideas about some of
the open problems in physics, and I was very impressed by the way the
old zenjis had apprehended
On 11/28/2012 8:04 PM, Bill! wrote:
The amount of suffering is dependent upon attachments.
Edgar:
Duuuh! The more people the more attachments and since the carrying
capacity of the Earth has ALREADY been exceeded the more suffering per
person...
I think we can be pretty confident that
On 11/28/2012 11:20 PM, Joe wrote:
the Dharma-Ending Age is not yet upon us
I suspect that it IS. Whether our not too distant future is what the
ancients were thinking of as 'the time that is hard to live through' or
not is impossible to prove, rationally, one way or the other; I have my
It happens that 'all is unfolding as it must' has recently been a topic
of discussion on a secular science forum, (by analogy to the
inevitability of physical and chemical reactions to proceed according to
initial conditions and experimental protocols) and it is my contention
that the human
On 11/27/2012 4:46 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote:
Needs to spend a bit of time not doing in order to live as we can live!
Yes, Wu Li ... yet again a concept I was recently discussing with Edgar,
in regard to the (on my view, imminent and inevitable) population crash.
RAF
On 11/27/2012 7:04 PM, Edgar Owen wrote:
It's mostly mental suffering that Buddhism addresses in saying that
suffering is due to attachments, desires, and ignorance. Mental
suffering can thus largely be released and avoided by proper
understanding or realization in the Buddhist sense.
Point
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