From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
Sent: Mon, Aug 26, 2013 8:57:54 AM
because i can and it's fun!..i do not follow the norm mike..do
you?..merle
From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
Sent: Mon, Aug 26, 2013 8:57:54 AM
because i can and it's fun!..i do not follow the norm mike..do
you?..merle
Your definition
from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
--
*From: *larry maher lcmahe...@gmail.com;
*To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
*Subject: *Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
*Sent: *Mon, Aug 26, 2013 11:08:10 PM
I hate to quote the master but the Buddha said 'since there is no way to
prove
Merle,br/br/If you have no concrete, empirical evidence of a creator god
then it's all just preconceived and presupposed. In other words - made
up.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
that liberation and
freedom are not found thru a belief in a god.
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
From: larry maher lcmahe...@gmail.com;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
Sent: Mon, Aug 26, 2013 11:08:10 PM
I
Freeing the mind is a myth.
What cannot be found, cannot be bound.
The imagined mind, imagines itself otherwise.
KG
On 8/27/2013 1:53 AM, larry maher wrote:
Totally fair to say. How can anyone 'free' his mind if he hangs onto
preconceived ideas?
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:44 PM,
what was?...merle
I thought it was a 60s flashback thing..
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
From: Bill! billsm...@hhs1963.org;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: [Zen] Re: the human body
Sent: Sun, Aug 25, 2013 9:42:54 AM
Merle,
Did you
: [Zen] Re: the human body
Sent: Sun, Aug 25, 2013 3:46:28 AM
mike ..you have missed the boat...( the point)... watch the brazilian tribe
doc..then tell me there is no god...merle
Merle,
Just because belief in a god gives comfort it doesn't make it true.
Mike
Sent from Yahoo
Merle,br/br/what the hell did you think god was?...br/br/I'm not
sure, but does he wear the Welsh number 15 shirt and convert the winning kick
against England last year?br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail
for iPad
Thing is tho, a belief in a deity *is* the norm. And is also 'painting legs on
a snake' because it just isn't needed. Also, not sure how believing in a god is
fun. Each to their own, I suppose.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo!
Mail for iPad
merlewiit...@yahoo.com;
* To: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
* Subject: * Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
* Sent: * Mon, Aug 26, 2013 8:57:54 AM
because i can and it's fun!..i do not follow the norm mike..do
you?..merle
Your definition is meaningless though
Larry,br/br/I think it's fair to say that Buddhism respects the gods people
may choose to believe in, but it remains a central tenet of Buddhism that
liberation and freedom are not found thru a belief in a
god.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
of Buddhism that liberation
and freedom are not found thru a belief in a god.
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
--
*From: *larry maher lcmahe...@gmail.com;
*To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
*Subject: *Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
*Sent: *Mon, Aug 26, 2013 11:08
Most people of such delusional persuasion also use 'creation' as a noun.
KG
On 8/25/2013 1:01 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Your definition is meaningless though and certainly not in accord with
how most people define 'God'. The universe works just fine without
such a belief. Why
And a 6000 year old one, at that.br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
Sent: Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:31:32 AM
mike...it is the nature of the beast : human... to construct weave and
create.. we do not live by bread alone..you know that...merle
Merle
They're
delusional...huh?...wait till the sun goes down on you!! merle
Most people of such delusional persuasion also use 'creation' as a noun.
KG
On 8/25/2013 1:01 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Your definition is meaningless though and certainly not in accord with how
most people
The creating and identifying of the ego as self is what creates suffering: the
First Noble Truth.br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
Sent: Sun, Aug 25, 2013 8:10:17 AM
yes... but we do it anyway..so let's have fun doing it..merle
Merle,
The idea behind self-realisation to to stop the weaving and deconstruct. You
should know that..
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
I thought it was a 60s flashback thing..br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail
for iPad
bill... not yet..it's coming to a store near you next month...merle
Merle,
Did you just have a birthday or something?
...Bill!
.
bill...they are in yahoo ... ..merle
Merle,
I was just wondering where you got all those emoticans you started using
lately...
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:
bill... not yet..it's coming to a store near you next month...merle
Merle,
Zen is a religion looking for a God. The Buddha said 'there is no way to
prove God and there is no way to not prove, so believe whatever works for
you.' That's why I like Eastern thought, Hindu's cool also, just too many
gimics and sideshows and people thinking dressing in white bathrobes helps
Bill!,br/br/Would you agree that you probably would never have experienced
'zen' without Siddharta Gotama's enlightenment and the spreading of the sutras?
I agree that experiencing Buddha Nature is not intrinsically dependent on them,
but it may as well be. Without Buddha's rediscovering of
Larry,br/br/Why would Zen be looking for a God? That would just be creating
an unnecessary dualism. The universe works perfectly well without the need to
create a Creator.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for
iPad
an
unnecessary dualism. The universe works perfectly well without the need to
create a Creator.
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
--
* From: * larry maher lcmahe...@gmail.com;
* To: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
* Subject: * Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
* Sent: * Sat
for iPad
From: larry maher lcmahe...@gmail.com;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
Sent: Sat, Aug 24, 2013 6:20:48 AM
Zen is a religion looking for a God. The Buddha said 'there is no way to prove
God
: [Zen] Re: the human body
Sent: Sat, Aug 24, 2013 4:24:25 AM
Merle,
Well, that all depends on what you mean by 'zen'.
I've defined what I mean by zen (lower-case 'z') many, many times on this forum
and elsewhere. A short version of that definition is: a set of teachings and
techniques
interesting bill..your streaks ahead in consciousness..merle
Mike,
No and Yes...
The no part is that I experienced Buddha Nature on my own before encountering
zen. I'm sure we all have. When we were infants before our intellect was
developed enough to create the delusion of
Merlebr/br/They're both fictional constructs. But at least ego has some
relative truth.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Merle,br/br/Utility is no measure of
Truth.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
On 8/24/2013 2:27 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Larry,
Why would Zen be looking for a God? That would just be creating an
unnecessary dualism. The universe works perfectly well without the
need to create a Creator.
Mike
Even the need some feel to identify or creating a creator is an
And comfort is only sought when dis-eased.
KG
On 8/24/2013 4:19 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Merle,
Utility is no measure of Truth.
Mike
God is no different than a haemorrhoid cream. I like
it!br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
I am very very impressed with how you lived your life. I found this, well,
to be frank, all too late. I knew about it, read about it, even tried it a
few times but I didn't get more interested until I was desperate.
Thanks,
Larry
PS I've sort of belonged to a open internet group with a terrific
mike..explain yourself please..
and KG not true...on a beautiful spring day one rejoices and gives thanks
that one has eyes to see and ears to hear and a tongue to speak..merle
And comfort is only sought when dis-eased.
KG
On 8/24/2013 4:19 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
cynical mike..tut tut..shame on you..merle
God is no different than a haemorrhoid cream. I like it!
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
From: Kristopher Grey k...@kgrey.com;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
what is AYPsite.com? merle
I am very very impressed with how you lived your life. I found this, well, to
be frank, all too late. I knew about it, read about it, even tried it a few
times but I didn't get more interested until I was desperate.
Thanks,
Larry
PS I've sort of belonged to a
From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
Sent: Sat, Aug 24, 2013 6:40:32 AM
mike excuse me...what's soul got to do with ego?..merle
Bill!,
Would you agree that you probably
Merle,br/br/Just because belief in a god gives comfort it doesn't make it
true. br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
But they're both so comforting!br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Merle,br/br/The idea behind self-realisation to to stop the weaving and
deconstruct. You should know that..br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from
Yahoo! Mail for iPad
merlewiit...@yahoo.com;
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com;
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: the human body
Sent: Sun, Aug 25, 2013 1:23:16 AM
mike..explain yourself please..
and KG not true...on a beautiful spring day one rejoices and gives thanks
that one has eyes
Your definition is meaningless though and certainly not in accord with how most
people define 'God'. The universe works just fine without such a belief. Why
paint legs on a snake?br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for
iPad
Can anyone help me? I'm new here. I was just wondering who the forum head
was? If the answer is no one could I please find out who Merle or Bill is?
The one with the 45 yrs of meditation. I won't bother anyone, am just
trying to figure this out.
Thank you
Larry
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 6:53 PM,
Larry,
Bill and me, Edgar, are co-moderators of the group...
Edgar
On Aug 23, 2013, at 12:32 PM, larry maher wrote:
Can anyone help me? I'm new here. I was just wondering who the forum head
was? If the answer is no one could I please find out who Merle or Bill is?
The one with the 45
from what i gather you would not have zen if you did not have
buddhism..correct me if i am incorrect..merle
Merle,
Yes. IMO zen is not an exclusive subset or sect of Buddhism.
Buddhism is a religion has does have many, many lists of principles, dogma,
doctrines, rituals, precepts,
bill...not why me...that's plain silly..why not you?...merle
Merle,
I have been in pain before. When I am in pain I don't think of pain as a
judgmental delusion, I think of it as pain and judge it to be bad; and maybe
even think Poor, poor me! Why do I have to suffer all this pain?
bill...acceptance is the key...what sort odf a zen buddhist are you?..merle
Merle,
Yes! Why me? Why not someone else? Someone I don't like? Someone who
doesn't look like me or is the same color as me or speaks the same language as
I do. Someone ELSE!
...Bill!
--- In
hallo bill...so tell me why oh why is the classification referred to as zen
buddhism?... can you have zen without buddhist principles?... merle
Merle,
As you should very well know by now I don't identify with being a Buddhist.
I do however practice zen and have for over 45 years; but just
bill...so you are still telling me pain is a delusion?... tell me next time
when you are in deep pain..try a very bad toothache..see it as a delusion and
don't visit the dentist...how long will you last before you realise it is real
and needs attention?...merle
Merle,
As you should
bill...i see...so if one is in pain..this is an illusion..try telling that to
someone bowled over and in agony...merle
Merle,
I also want to add that experiencing Buddha Nature, such as through zazen, does
not involve a disconnection with the body. It involves a disconnection with
the
'Real' and 'delusion', are also 'classification'.
The Taoist symbol of Yin/Yang may appear to spin, but only if you're
putting some spin on it.
KG
On 8/21/2013 9:43 PM, Bill! wrote:
The experience of feeling/touch is real. That experience is Buddha
Nature. The classification of it as
have you been in pain bill..and thought it was judgemental delusion?...merle
Merle,
I don't know how you got from what I said earlier to your post below.
The experience of feeling/touch is real. That experience is Buddha Nature.
The classification of it as 'pain' is the judgmental
spinning top springs to mind...and it can topple when it stops...merle
'Real' and 'delusion', are also 'classification'.
The Taoist symbol of Yin/Yang may appear to spin, but only if
you're putting some spin on it.
KG
On 8/21/2013 9:43 PM, Bill! wrote:
The experience of
Bill,
This is one of the reasons I like Zen Forum :)
Siska
-Original Message-
From: Bill! billsm...@hhs1963.org
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2013 05:03:32
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Zen] Re: the human body
Merle
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