RE: [Zen] Death of a Sangha member
Joe, br/br/Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend and Dharma brother. It sounds as though he lead a really full life with no regrets. That we should all be so fortunate!br/br/Mikebr/br/br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone
Re: [Zen] Death of a Sangha member
Mike, thank you. I don't know what Jim felt in his last moments, but he certainly lived as a free person and was an inspiration and friend to us all. No dry eyes in the desert this week. May Jim rest in final Nirvana! Hail! --Joe uerusuboyo@... wrote: Joe, Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend and Dharma brother. It sounds as though he lead a really full life with no regrets. That we should all be so fortunate! Mike Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Death
Good Eve DP, I understand.. But what YOU don't understand yet is that OCD... is your particular vulnwerability. I spent 25 minutes underwater. I drowned. Don't you think I faced rehab.. and my own inabilities.. not to mention judgements from others during recovery?? For me.. part of Zen practice is acknowledging and accepting the real flaws I have. It would have been easier if I had parents who, (though they love me), were not perfectionists. THEIR needs for me to be brilliant, beautiful, Ivy-Leaguerd--educated-and married-to-wealth and power~ certainly would have made my recovery easier, shorter, and would have provided me with real life options. They lived in fantasy--assuming I would STILL recover and be all those things. But what I realized some time later is that I had to embrace and live values that were right for me. *sigh* There isn't a person on the planet without problems, disabilities, or inabilities. Harsh as it reads.. you ain't nuttin' special. We've all got struggles, problems, sorrors and questions. I will always have some residual problems stemming from my accident. You are wise enough to not only join a group like this, but to acknowledge your own problems openly here. Perhaps the best thing I can offer you is that I don't feel sorry for you. You have unique gifts to offer. We all do. Get busy in finding yours.. and offer them to others. Remember.. there are small children with OCD who don't understand their problems. Maybe you can help them. The presence you may be seeking is outside yourself. Look within to what you can offer, rather than what you can feel from some higher spiritual parent. Give first. At least try. With compassion, Kristy thank you for your kind words. My main setback is that I've never *felt* a true presence of anything outside this world. --- On Sun, 8/29/10, DP dave.dplat...@gmail.com wrote: From: DP dave.dplat...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 7:09 PM I greatly appreciate your words. The idea of getting involved with life is helpful, but the problem is that with my OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) it will always be in the back of my mind.OCD perpetuates my fear of death, and my fear of death is the root of my OCD... --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthypl...@... wrote: *bows* to you DP...   I've often read and heard that the reality of death is an important part of zen practice and training. Personally, I have never devoted any time to it. I will explain why. WhenI I was 25, I had a life-altering car accident. So serious that I was technically dead for moments while my heart and kidneys stopped functioning. I spent a month in a coma, and six months in the hospital. No-- I didn't experience any of those near-death visions. I wasn't at all religious then --or now. It was long before I found Zen.  But if I HAD died, I wouldn't have known the difference. If there is some kind of transcent existence after death, I suppose I'll find out. If not, I won't experience anything at all, including pain, fear or loss. I suggest you look within about why you fear death. Do you have unfinished business here. Finish them. Do you feel guilty due to some behavior or action you have done? Fix it and work on forgiveness. Do you believe in a hell where you fear you are headed for eternity? If so, seek guidance from those who share your belief. Is your ego so big that you feel entitled to be immortal? Truthfully, what is there really to fear?  I guess I just can't wrap my head around such a fear. If someone runs me over at a crosswalk today..(which is possible due to these crazy, texting, cell-phone-talking, putting on lipstick on with one hand while driving with their knee), I guess I will die. Other than the fact of dealing with resolving  my financial and living issues by family and friends as they grieve my loss-- in the end..life goes on.  Perhaps your problem with being stuck on this issue is due to your focus on it. Get involved in someon else's life, and the fear and focus will gradually cease.  Be well. :) Kristy   --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Rose P things_r...@... wrote: From: Rose P things_r...@... Subject: Re: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 12:26 PM  Hi DP  I've read your posts and the replies you've gotten with interest. I don't have much information, zen wise, to offer with regards death and the fear of it, although I do *get* where you're coming from. Some of the others will hopefully post on this subject perhaps. What I have found extremely useful is the site www.dharmaseed.org. I try to listen to at least one talk a day. In terms of repetitive, troublesomeÂ
Re: [Zen] Death
DP, Why on earth would anyone be worried about death? After all you won't be around or conscious to experience it! Remember you were dead before you were born. Do you worry about not being alive before you were born? Of course not. Then why worry about being dead after you're dead? Same thing exactly. You'll be in exactly the same state, or rather no state at all. Death is entirely an illusion and an illusory fear. And even if you are still worried about death the best answer to that is simply to immerse yourself completely in the present moment and enjoy it and forget death. After all death doesn't exist. That is your death will never exist for you. All that will ever exist for you is life! Edgar On Aug 29, 2010, at 9:11 PM, DP wrote: I will check them out. I appreciate your words. I guess I was frustrated with other zen groups, where I only received vague platitudes and rhetorical questions along the lines of why be afraid of death? Which I understand but have a problem implementing. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote: Hi DP  I've read your posts and the replies you've gotten with interest. I don't have much information, zen wise, to offer with regards death and the fear of it, although I do *get* where you're coming from. Some of the others will hopefully post on this subject perhaps. What I have found extremely useful is the site www.dharmaseed.org. I try to listen to at least one talk a day. In terms of repetitive, troublesome thoughts, there are some fairly good talks given by a teacher called Gloria Ambrosia. I've only been using the site for a month or so, so I'm sure there's a wealth of other stuff on there that could be checked out, and might be of some use.  Take care,  Rose  --- On Sun, 8/29/10, DP dave.dplat...@... wrote: From: DP dave.dplat...@... Subject: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 2:59 PM  ARe there any good meditations I can do which helps me deal with my fear of death? I just finished Thich Nhat Hanh's No Death No Fear, and I liked it, but I feel such a hard time getting around the idea of continuance - it's too much for my materialist mind. So maybe I need a different tack... How do I confront the reality of death with the aim towards lessening my fear of this?
RE: [Zen] Death
I figure if I am thinking about death then I am alive and I don't have to worry about it and if I am dead I won't know it. JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Death
*smiles* Your comment reminds me of the koan about what your face looked like before you were born. Perhaps that IS a meditation koan DP could ponder;) As to the post suggesting that everyone is , or must be afraid of death beit consciously or not-- I must respectfully disagree. Such an awareness is unique to each of us. Not to mention that to make such generalizations is merely a projection on their part. I met a man last spring who kept popping up in my life like an old penny. We had little in common and with vastly different life tracts. Over time, I have truly been touched and enriched by this man, even though many things about him bug the hell out of me. He knows more about death than I'll ever know or want to At 19, in Vietnam, he was captured and tortured for months. Beaten routinely, he still has residual injuries today. I just got off the phone with him, as he is awaiting final audiology checks to complete his paperwork for his military pension. He will be 60 in October. After his tour in Nam, he went back to school, married and had a son. As part of a humanitarian corp, he and his family moved to the Middle East. His wife and son were killed by a car bomb in Beirut. He has travelled the world, helping out in the most difficult and dangerous places on the globe. When he returned to the USA, he worked in law inforcement in NYC, NY. One day he was struck by a drunk driver, and was nearly killed. He was in a coma and spent months in the hospital. He was left with many physical disabilities and memory problems. He needed a new career, and went back to school to study the ministry. He was a minister when the terrorist attack came on 9/11. He spent 48-hour days in the heart of the crisis as a minister also trained in law enforcement. Due to the severe environmental toxins at Ground Zero, he now has severe liver damage , and is on a transplant list. He is diabetic.. has no teeth.. and can barely walk. Yet this man perseveres. I have no idea what this man sees in me, but he cares so much about me--without really knowing very much about me. He has an endless array of annoying habits. And he humbles me to the core. Who do I think I am to moan about my life disappointments? He has lived a dozen lives already in his 60 years. I've learned from him that fear of death is an egoistic mindset. It truly doesn't matter when I die. What matters is what I do right now and today to help others, and offer whatever I have to them. What gifts we each have within ourselves do not exist for our own comfort and pleasures. They exist to be used to help and connect with others. Be well.. Kristy --- On Mon, 8/30/10, Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net Subject: Re: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 4:55 AM DP, Why on earth would anyone be worried about death? After all you won't be around or conscious to experience it! Remember you were dead before you were born. Do you worry about not being alive before you were born? Of course not. Then why worry about being dead after you're dead? Same thing exactly. You'll be in exactly the same state, or rather no state at all. Death is entirely an illusion and an illusory fear. And even if you are still worried about death the best answer to that is simply to immerse yourself completely in the present moment and enjoy it and forget death. After all death doesn't exist. That is your death will never exist for you. All that will ever exist for you is life! Edgar On Aug 29, 2010, at 9:11 PM, DP wrote: I will check them out. I appreciate your words. I guess I was frustrated with other zen groups, where I only received vague platitudes and rhetorical questions along the lines of why be afraid of death? Which I understand but have a problem implementing. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote: Hi DP  I've read your posts and the replies you've gotten with interest. I don't have much information, zen wise, to offer with regards death and the fear of it, although I do *get* where you're coming from. Some of the others will hopefully post on this subject perhaps. What I have found extremely useful is the site www.dharmaseed.org. I try to listen to at least one talk a day. In terms of repetitive, troublesome thoughts, there are some fairly good talks given by a teacher called Gloria Ambrosia. I've only been using the site for a month or so, so I'm sure there's a wealth of other stuff on there that could be checked out, and might be of some use.  Take care,  Rose  --- On Sun, 8/29/10, DP dave.dplat...@... wrote: From: DP dave.dplat...@... Subject: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 2:59 PM  ARe there any good meditations I can do which helps me deal
Re: [Zen] Death
Edgar, Your highlighted remark makes things worse. It is no cure for the fear of death. There must be a 'cure', but not the words. Anthony --- On Mon, 30/8/10, Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net Subject: Re: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 30 August, 2010, 6:55 PM DP, Why on earth would anyone be worried about death? After all you won't be around or conscious to experience it! Remember you were dead before you were born. Do you worry about not being alive before you were born? Of course not. Then why worry about being dead after you're dead? Same thing exactly. You'll be in exactly the same state, or rather no state at all. Death is entirely an illusion and an illusory fear. And even if you are still worried about death the best answer to that is simply to immerse yourself completely in the present moment and enjoy it and forget death. After all death doesn't exist. That is your death will never exist for you. All that will ever exist for you is life! Edgar On Aug 29, 2010, at 9:11 PM, DP wrote: I will check them out. I appreciate your words. I guess I was frustrated with other zen groups, where I only received vague platitudes and rhetorical questions along the lines of why be afraid of death? Which I understand but have a problem implementing. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote: Hi DP  I've read your posts and the replies you've gotten with interest. I don't have much information, zen wise, to offer with regards death and the fear of it, although I do *get* where you're coming from. Some of the others will hopefully post on this subject perhaps. What I have found extremely useful is the site www.dharmaseed.org. I try to listen to at least one talk a day. In terms of repetitive, troublesome thoughts, there are some fairly good talks given by a teacher called Gloria Ambrosia. I've only been using the site for a month or so, so I'm sure there's a wealth of other stuff on there that could be checked out, and might be of some use.  Take care,  Rose  --- On Sun, 8/29/10, DP dave.dplat...@... wrote: From: DP dave.dplat...@... Subject: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 2:59 PM  ARe there any good meditations I can do which helps me deal with my fear of death? I just finished Thich Nhat Hanh's No Death No Fear, and I liked it, but I feel such a hard time getting around the idea of continuance - it's too much for my materialist mind. So maybe I need a different tack... How do I confront the reality of death with the aim towards lessening my fear of this?
Re: [Zen] Death
Anthony, For you maybe but not for me... You need to get rid of your attachments to life and to death both! If you clearly realize the true nature of your being that will happen automatically. Edgar On Aug 30, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: Edgar, Your highlighted remark makes things worse. It is no cure for the fear of death. There must be a 'cure', but not the words. Anthony --- On Mon, 30/8/10, Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net Subject: Re: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 30 August, 2010, 6:55 PM DP, Why on earth would anyone be worried about death? After all you won't be around or conscious to experience it! Remember you were dead before you were born. Do you worry about not being alive before you were born? Of course not. Then why worry about being dead after you're dead? Same thing exactly. You'll be in exactly the same state, or rather no state at all. Death is entirely an illusion and an illusory fear. And even if you are still worried about death the best answer to that is simply to immerse yourself completely in the present moment and enjoy it and forget death. After all death doesn't exist. That is your death will never exist for you. All that will ever exist for you is life! Edgar On Aug 29, 2010, at 9:11 PM, DP wrote: I will check them out. I appreciate your words. I guess I was frustrated with other zen groups, where I only received vague platitudes and rhetorical questions along the lines of why be afraid of death? Which I understand but have a problem implementing. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote: Hi DP  I've read your posts and the replies you've gotten with interest. I don't have much information, zen wise, to offer with regards death and the fear of it, although I do *get* where you're coming from. Some of the others will hopefully post on this subject perhaps. What I have found extremely useful is the site www.dharmaseed.org. I try to listen to at least one talk a day. In terms of repetitive, troublesome thoughts, there are some fairly good talks given by a teacher called Gloria Ambrosia. I've only been using the site for a month or so, so I'm sure there's a wealth of other stuff on there that could be checked out, and might be of some use.  Take care,  Rose  --- On Sun, 8/29/10, DP dave.dplat...@... wrote: From: DP dave.dplat...@... Subject: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 2:59 PM  ARe there any good meditations I can do which helps me deal with my fear of death? I just finished Thich Nhat Hanh's No Death No Fear, and I liked it, but I feel such a hard time getting around the idea of continuance - it's too much for my materialist mind. So maybe I need a different tack... How do I confront the reality of death with the aim towards lessening my fear of this?
Re: [Zen] Death
DP, Kristy, again, offers a possible solution: helping others to combat fear of death. Try it, and consider consulting a physician on a possible medicine. On the other hand, don't even think about her words 'fear of death is so and so'. Anthony --- On Mon, 30/8/10, Kristy McClain healthypl...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Kristy McClain healthypl...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 30 August, 2010, 11:23 PM *smiles* Your comment reminds me of the koan about what your face looked like before you were born. Perhaps that IS a meditation koan DP could ponder;) As to the post suggesting that everyone is , or must be afraid of death beit consciously or not-- I must respectfully disagree. Such an awareness is unique to each of us. Not to mention that to make such generalizations is merely a projection on their part. I met a man last spring who kept popping up in my life like an old penny. We had little in common and with vastly different life tracts. Over time, I have truly been touched and enriched by this man, even though many things about him bug the hell out of me. He knows more about death than I'll ever know or want to At 19, in Vietnam, he was captured and tortured for months. Beaten routinely, he still has residual injuries today. I just got off the phone with him, as he is awaiting final audiology checks to complete his paperwork for his military pension. He will be 60 in October. After his tour in Nam, he went back to school, married and had a son. As part of a humanitarian corp, he and his family moved to the Middle East. His wife and son were killed by a car bomb in Beirut. He has travelled the world, helping out in the most difficult and dangerous places on the globe. When he returned to the USA, he worked in law inforcement in NYC, NY. One day he was struck by a drunk driver, and was nearly killed. He was in a coma and spent months in the hospital. He was left with many physical disabilities and memory problems. He needed a new career, and went back to school to study the ministry. He was a minister when the terrorist attack came on 9/11. He spent 48-hour days in the heart of the crisis as a minister also trained in law enforcement. Due to the severe environmental toxins at Ground Zero, he now has severe liver damage , and is on a transplant list. He is diabetic.. has no teeth.. and can barely walk. Yet this man perseveres. I have no idea what this man sees in me, but he cares so much about me--without really knowing very much about me. He has an endless array of annoying habits. And he humbles me to the core. Who do I think I am to moan about my life disappointments? He has lived a dozen lives already in his 60 years. I've learned from him that fear of death is an egoistic mindset. It truly doesn't matter when I die. What matters is what I do right now and today to help others, and offer whatever I have to them. What gifts we each have within ourselves do not exist for our own comfort and pleasures. They exist to be used to help and connect with others. Be well.. Kristy --- On Mon, 8/30/10, Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net Subject: Re: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 4:55 AM DP, Why on earth would anyone be worried about death? After all you won't be around or conscious to experience it! Remember you were dead before you were born. Do you worry about not being alive before you were born? Of course not. Then why worry about being dead after you're dead? Same thing exactly. You'll be in exactly the same state, or rather no state at all. Death is entirely an illusion and an illusory fear. And even if you are still worried about death the best answer to that is simply to immerse yourself completely in the present moment and enjoy it and forget death. After all death doesn't exist. That is your death will never exist for you. All that will ever exist for you is life! Edgar On Aug 29, 2010, at 9:11 PM, DP wrote: I will check them out. I appreciate your words. I guess I was frustrated with other zen groups, where I only received vague platitudes and rhetorical questions along the lines of why be afraid of death? Which I understand but have a problem implementing. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote: Hi DP  I've read your posts and the replies you've gotten with interest. I don't have much information, zen wise, to offer with regards death and the fear of it, although I do *get* where you're coming from. Some of the others will hopefully post on this subject perhaps. What I have found extremely useful is the site www.dharmaseed.org. I try to listen to at least one talk a day. In terms of repetitive, troublesome thoughts, there are some fairly good talks given by a teacher
Re: [Zen] Death
Hi DP I've read your posts and the replies you've gotten with interest. I don't have much information, zen wise, to offer with regards death and the fear of it, although I do *get* where you're coming from. Some of the others will hopefully post on this subject perhaps. What I have found extremely useful is the site www.dharmaseed.org. I try to listen to at least one talk a day. In terms of repetitive, troublesome thoughts, there are some fairly good talks given by a teacher called Gloria Ambrosia. I've only been using the site for a month or so, so I'm sure there's a wealth of other stuff on there that could be checked out, and might be of some use. Take care, Rose --- On Sun, 8/29/10, DP dave.dplat...@gmail.com wrote: From: DP dave.dplat...@gmail.com Subject: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 2:59 PM ARe there any good meditations I can do which helps me deal with my fear of death? I just finished Thich Nhat Hanh's No Death No Fear, and I liked it, but I feel such a hard time getting around the idea of continuance - it's too much for my materialist mind. So maybe I need a different tack... How do I confront the reality of death with the aim towards lessening my fear of this?
Re: [Zen] Death
Death, final and complete lack of existence, is a common Mid-Eastern concept. It is a limited concept as their ideas about life are more physical than spiritual. In Tuetonic/Norse teachings, we accept spiritual life, within our clan, people, as perpetual. Life does not end---it merely shifts from spiritual to physical levels depended, primarily, on how we wish to evolve. We also realise that once we have reached as far as we can go in the physical life, we retreat to the spiritual life. But AT NO POINT does life cease to exist. All is one and one is all. LEN --- On Sun, 8/29/10, DP dave.dplat...@gmail.com wrote: From: DP dave.dplat...@gmail.com Subject: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 7:59 AM ARe there any good meditations I can do which helps me deal with my fear of death? I just finished Thich Nhat Hanh's No Death No Fear, and I liked it, but I feel such a hard time getting around the idea of continuance - it's too much for my materialist mind. So maybe I need a different tack... How do I confront the reality of death with the aim towards lessening my fear of this?
Re: [Zen] Death
*bows* to you DP... I've often read and heard that the reality of death is an important part of zen practice and training. Personally, I have never devoted any time to it. I will explain why. WhenI I was 25, I had a life-altering car accident. So serious that I was technically dead for moments while my heart and kidneys stopped functioning. I spent a month in a coma, and six months in the hospital. No-- I didn't experience any of those near-death visions. I wasn't at all religious then --or now. It was long before I found Zen. But if I HAD died, I wouldn't have known the difference. If there is some kind of transcent existence after death, I suppose I'll find out. If not, I won't experience anything at all, including pain, fear or loss. I suggest you look within about why you fear death. Do you have unfinished business here. Finish them. Do you feel guilty due to some behavior or action you have done? Fix it and work on forgiveness. Do you believe in a hell where you fear you are headed for eternity? If so, seek guidance from those who share your belief. Is your ego so big that you feel entitled to be immortal? Truthfully, what is there really to fear? I guess I just can't wrap my head around such a fear. If someone runs me over at a crosswalk today..(which is possible due to these crazy, texting, cell-phone-talking, putting on lipstick on with one hand while driving with their knee), I guess I will die. Other than the fact of dealing with resolving my financial and living issues by family and friends as they grieve my loss-- in the end..life goes on. Perhaps your problem with being stuck on this issue is due to your focus on it. Get involved in someon else's life, and the fear and focus will gradually cease. Be well. :) Kristy --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Rose P things_r...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Rose P things_r...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 12:26 PM Hi DP I've read your posts and the replies you've gotten with interest. I don't have much information, zen wise, to offer with regards death and the fear of it, although I do *get* where you're coming from. Some of the others will hopefully post on this subject perhaps. What I have found extremely useful is the site www.dharmaseed.org. I try to listen to at least one talk a day. In terms of repetitive, troublesome thoughts, there are some fairly good talks given by a teacher called Gloria Ambrosia. I've only been using the site for a month or so, so I'm sure there's a wealth of other stuff on there that could be checked out, and might be of some use. Take care, Rose --- On Sun, 8/29/10, DP dave.dplat...@gmail.com wrote: From: DP dave.dplat...@gmail.com Subject: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 2:59 PM ARe there any good meditations I can do which helps me deal with my fear of death? I just finished Thich Nhat Hanh's No Death No Fear, and I liked it, but I feel such a hard time getting around the idea of continuance - it's too much for my materialist mind. So maybe I need a different tack... How do I confront the reality of death with the aim towards lessening my fear of this?
Re: [Zen] Death
I greatly appreciate your words. The idea of getting involved with life is helpful, but the problem is that with my OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) it will always be in the back of my mind.OCD perpetuates my fear of death, and my fear of death is the root of my OCD... --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthypl...@... wrote: *bows* to you DP...   I've often read and heard that the reality of death is an important part of zen practice and training. Personally, I have never devoted any time to it. I will explain why. WhenI I was 25, I had a life-altering car accident. So serious that I was technically dead for moments while my heart and kidneys stopped functioning. I spent a month in a coma, and six months in the hospital. No-- I didn't experience any of those near-death visions. I wasn't at all religious then --or now. It was long before I found Zen.  But if I HAD died, I wouldn't have known the difference. If there is some kind of transcent existence after death, I suppose I'll find out. If not, I won't experience anything at all, including pain, fear or loss. I suggest you look within about why you fear death. Do you have unfinished business here. Finish them. Do you feel guilty due to some behavior or action you have done? Fix it and work on forgiveness. Do you believe in a hell where you fear you are headed for eternity? If so, seek guidance from those who share your belief. Is your ego so big that you feel entitled to be immortal? Truthfully, what is there really to fear?  I guess I just can't wrap my head around such a fear. If someone runs me over at a crosswalk today..(which is possible due to these crazy, texting, cell-phone-talking, putting on lipstick on with one hand while driving with their knee), I guess I will die. Other than the fact of dealing with resolving  my financial and living issues by family and friends as they grieve my loss-- in the end..life goes on.  Perhaps your problem with being stuck on this issue is due to your focus on it. Get involved in someon else's life, and the fear and focus will gradually cease.  Be well. :) Kristy   --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Rose P things_r...@... wrote: From: Rose P things_r...@... Subject: Re: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 12:26 PM  Hi DP  I've read your posts and the replies you've gotten with interest. I don't have much information, zen wise, to offer with regards death and the fear of it, although I do *get* where you're coming from. Some of the others will hopefully post on this subject perhaps. What I have found extremely useful is the site www.dharmaseed.org. I try to listen to at least one talk a day. In terms of repetitive, troublesome thoughts, there are some fairly good talks given by a teacher called Gloria Ambrosia. I've only been using the site for a month or so, so I'm sure there's a wealth of other stuff on there that could be checked out, and might be of some use.  Take care,  Rose  --- On Sun, 8/29/10, DP dave.dplat...@... wrote: From: DP dave.dplat...@... Subject: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 2:59 PM  ARe there any good meditations I can do which helps me deal with my fear of death? I just finished Thich Nhat Hanh's No Death No Fear, and I liked it, but I feel such a hard time getting around the idea of continuance - it's too much for my materialist mind. So maybe I need a different tack... How do I confront the reality of death with the aim towards lessening my fear of this? Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Death
I will check them out. I appreciate your words. I guess I was frustrated with other zen groups, where I only received vague platitudes and rhetorical questions along the lines of why be afraid of death? Which I understand but have a problem implementing. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote: Hi DP  I've read your posts and the replies you've gotten with interest. I don't have much information, zen wise, to offer with regards death and the fear of it, although I do *get* where you're coming from. Some of the others will hopefully post on this subject perhaps. What I have found extremely useful is the site www.dharmaseed.org. I try to listen to at least one talk a day. In terms of repetitive, troublesome thoughts, there are some fairly good talks given by a teacher called Gloria Ambrosia. I've only been using the site for a month or so, so I'm sure there's a wealth of other stuff on there that could be checked out, and might be of some use.  Take care,  Rose  --- On Sun, 8/29/10, DP dave.dplat...@... wrote: From: DP dave.dplat...@... Subject: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 2:59 PM  ARe there any good meditations I can do which helps me deal with my fear of death? I just finished Thich Nhat Hanh's No Death No Fear, and I liked it, but I feel such a hard time getting around the idea of continuance - it's too much for my materialist mind. So maybe I need a different tack... How do I confront the reality of death with the aim towards lessening my fear of this? Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Death
I think Kristy's comments below are right on target. I have never faced a 'real' death experience like the one she described, but I have been able through zen training and practice to experience 'death' of the concept of 'self' - the dualistic concept that my 'self' has a separate existence from everything (or even something) else. It's the dualistic self/other split. After you've experienced that, and have been able to fully embrace it, physical 'death' doesn't have the same meaning or engender a sense of dread that it once held. So, you can either go out and play on the highway hoping to get hit by a car, or you can sit zazen. It's your choice. ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kristy McClain Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 2:26 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Death *bows* to you DP... I've often read and heard that the reality of death is an important part of zen practice and training. Personally, I have never devoted any time to it. I will explain why. WhenI I was 25, I had a life-altering car accident. So serious that I was technically dead for moments while my heart and kidneys stopped functioning. I spent a month in a coma, and six months in the hospital. No-- I didn't experience any of those near-death visions. I wasn't at all religious then --or now. It was long before I found Zen. But if I HAD died, I wouldn't have known the difference. If there is some kind of transcent existence after death, I suppose I'll find out. If not, I won't experience anything at all, including pain, fear or loss. I suggest you look within about why you fear death. Do you have unfinished business here. Finish them. Do you feel guilty due to some behavior or action you have done? Fix it and work on forgiveness. Do you believe in a hell where you fear you are headed for eternity? If so, seek guidance from those who share your belief. Is your ego so big that you feel entitled to be immortal? Truthfully, what is there really to fear? I guess I just can't wrap my head around such a fear. If someone runs me over at a crosswalk today..(which is possible due to these crazy, texting, cell-phone-talking, putting on lipstick on with one hand while driving with their knee), I guess I will die. Other than the fact of dealing with resolving my financial and living issues by family and friends as they grieve my loss-- in the end..life goes on. Perhaps your problem with being stuck on this issue is due to your focus on it. Get involved in someon else's life, and the fear and focus will gradually cease. Be well. :) Kristy --- On Sun, 8/29/10, Rose P things_r...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Rose P things_r...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 12:26 PM Hi DP I've read your posts and the replies you've gotten with interest. I don't have much information, zen wise, to offer with regards death and the fear of it, although I do *get* where you're coming from. Some of the others will hopefully post on this subject perhaps. What I have found extremely useful is the site www.dharmaseed.org. I try to listen to at least one talk a day. In terms of repetitive, troublesome thoughts, there are some fairly good talks given by a teacher called Gloria Ambrosia. I've only been using the site for a month or so, so I'm sure there's a wealth of other stuff on there that could be checked out, and might be of some use. Take care, Rose --- On Sun, 8/29/10, DP dave.dplat...@gmail.com wrote: From: DP dave.dplat...@gmail.com Subject: [Zen] Death To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 2:59 PM ARe there any good meditations I can do which helps me deal with my fear of death? I just finished Thich Nhat Hanh's No Death No Fear, and I liked it, but I feel such a hard time getting around the idea of continuance - it's too much for my materialist mind. So maybe I need a different tack... How do I confront the reality of death with the aim towards lessening my fear of this? __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5407 (20100829) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5407 (20100829) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum
