RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
-Original Message- From: Elmer L. Fairbank [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 8:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] The Return of the King At 04:18 AM 11/18/2003 -0900, BLT wrote: RB Scott wrote: Ah. The Harry Potter syndrome. Now I understand., Now you understand and I am confused. What is this Harry Potter syndrome? I didn't like the Harry Potter movie that I saw. In fact, I never went to see the next one. And I have never read one of the books. Is it possible that you are just too old to like fantasy? I thought you were my age. I am the same age as Mel Perkins. Yes, Tolkein has redeeming social value. I have always been fascinated with his characterizations and I thought the movie version did a reasonable job of bringing them to life. Potter, on the other hand, while entertaining, reminds me a great deal of the Hardy Boys (turns handle on crank for the next installment). Has it's use, but ... Ah yes, redeeming social value: an eye-of-the-beholder matter if there ever was one. RBS // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
At 08:58 AM 11/18/2003 -0500, Uncle Ron wrote: Yes, Tolkein has redeeming social value. I have always been fascinated with his characterizations and I thought the movie version did a reasonable job of bringing them to life. Potter, on the other hand, while entertaining, reminds me a great deal of the Hardy Boys (turns handle on crank for the next installment). Has it's use, but ... Ah yes, redeeming social value: an eye-of-the-beholder matter if there ever was one. Yes, we was smiling when we wrote that, wondering what sort of comments it might provoke. Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
-Original Message- From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] The Return of the King RB Scott wrote: I liked Harry Potter and have read all the books (because my children have). I liked the movie as well. Ditto Lord of The Rings. However, as a rule, neither are my cups of tea. My tastes and interests run more to the likes of: Dickens, Irving, Roth, Salinger, Dickinson, Potok, Wolfe. I thought Judith Freeman's (my first of her) was well crafted. I love Dickens, but find Salinger more depressing than any other author I've ever read. And being a moderate to severe manic depressive myself, I don't care for him on that account. I don't forgive authors who depress me. I read WE THE LIVING by Ayn Rand a number of years ago, and I have steadfastly refused to read anything else by her. My depressions don't need any help. I'm surprised you didn't find Dickens depressing too, if quaint. Arguably, Salinger and Rand's stuff gets to you because it's more contemporary. Tell me, if I were to read a book by Roth, which one should I try first, something that would make me feel good about being alive? Have you read nothing by Roth? Surely you've heard of Portnoy's Complaint? But if you didn't like Salinger, I'd worry you also wouldn't like Roth. But let me think on a good First Roth book -- probably The Great American Novel. I'd say Roth's stuff sort of occupies the middle ground between, say, authors like Chaim Potok and J.D. Salinger. Others in that middle would include Irving (The World According to Garp, Cider House Rules, The Fouth Hand etc) and Wolfe (Bonfire of the Vanities). Ron // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
-Original Message- From: Elmer L. Fairbank [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] The Return of the King Last winter I decided to take the Beecroft challenge and see what really was in Pride and Prejudice, since there was a hole in my late 18th/early 19th century British literature experience anyway. The first read left me a bit lost and still wondering. So I read it again and began to find the treasures. Realizing that it was satire really helped, I stopped being offended by the seriousness of some of the absurdities. I have since read most of her other novels and re-read P/P at least twice more and find them quite intriguing. Her style has to grow on you, I guess. I really like the BBC production of P/P also. The character portrayals are excellent. Till, you must have had a premonition that I am also a Jane Austen fan, although initially (way back in high school) I recoiled at her work because it seemed too girlie. After several failed attempts to hooked on PP, two good friends (both female) persauded me to give Persuasion a go...and I've been an Austen fan ever since. Ironically, at this very moment our family (all females but me) is plowing through the JA movies and books. RBS // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Standards vs Censorship
Big gripe I had with the ALM crowd. Many of them are advocates for artistic freedom. They want license to write anything that contributes to a good-selling story, regardless of the implicit message or moral content -- including explicit descriptions of sexual behavior that clearly violates LDS standards. These things are a part of real life, they argue. I abandoned the protests in the AML forum long ago. But recently the issue was raised again, as Deseret Book issued a new edict proclaiming that books which fail to meet their standards will not be sold there. I had a private laugh as I thought to myself, It serves them right. In a way, I think the recalcitrance of many LDS artists has forced this policy. There have been predictable howls of anguish and protest against such heavy-handed censorship. But I suspect that serious LDS writers who wish to have a market for their work will toe the line. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] The Mouse
Mickey is 75 today. Somehow defines the age of our culture. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Mouse
At 04:11 PM 11/18/2003 +, Gib Mij wrote: Mickey is 75 today. Somehow defines the age of our culture. Does this age also include his predecessor Steamboat Willy, or just his current incarnation as the Mick? Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
-Original Message- From: Jim Cobabe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] The Return of the King John W. Redelfs wrote: --- Tell me, if I were to read a book by Roth, which one should I try first, something that would make me feel good about being alive? --- I read everything by Phillip Roth when I was too young to know better. Entertaining and sinfully engaging fiction, but many of the situations are seriously X-rated. Yes indeed, Roth's fiction is definitely sinfully engaging You probably won't find his works on the shelves of Deseret Book. I think today that constitutes a serious indictment. Ah, Deseret Book: the final arbiter of great writing. I was surprised to find Chaucer there. Someone's bolts must be loose. RBS // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Standards vs Censorship
-Original Message- From: Jim Cobabe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 10:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ZION] Standards vs Censorship There have been predictable howls of anguish and protest against such heavy-handed censorship. But I suspect that serious LDS writers who wish to have a market for their work will toe the line. I'm not sure what line I'm supposed to toe. But, whatever it is, I'm not howling in protest. The Church leadership has every right to do whatever it will regards artists and their works. Deseret Book should not carry any books that it deems inappropriate. I'd like to think that many serious Mormon writers are seeking audiences that include more non-Mormons than Mormons. Many serious writers, who happen to be Mormons, do not want to be labled a Mormon Writer any more than Chaim Potok wanted to be labled a Jewish Writer. But the sensitivity of Church leadership -- it's quite a bit less now than it was a few decades ago -- does create some challenges for Mormon writers of fiction who want draw from their life expereiences. For instance, I'm reasonably certain that the writer of the piece below -- an excerpt from a draft of a novel -- does not expect that his book will be distributed by Deseret Book. Neither does he expect that he will be called in to have a chat with his bishop or stake president. I'm sure he would like it if Mormons read the book, but I'm absolutely certain his book is aimed at a very general audience. In this excerpt, he sets-up the dilemma that confronts novelists (and other artists) who happen to be Mormons: PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY BEFORE PROCEEDING: The piece below is protected by U.S. Copyright laws. The author has given permission for its ONE-TIME use here. YOU MAY NOT distribute it by any means to anyone nor may you copy it. The material remains the SOLE PROPERTY of its author and may not be given to or shared with others unless you first obtain written permission from the author. IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE, PLEASE DO SO BEFORE PROCEEDING FURTHER. IF YOU CAN NOT ABIDE WHAT HAS BEEN STIPULATED ABOVE, PLEASE READ NO FURTHER. DELETE THIS POST FROM YOUR FILES IMMEDIATELY. A Mormon Goy Write about what you know, my favorite English teacher always said. Easier to do for Mrs. Margaret Mulder, garden variety shikse that she was. It seemed to me that her selection of religion was more connected to temporal matters than doctrinal correctness; the thoughtfulness of the minister; his oratorical skills and personal charm; the architecture and ambiance of the sanctuary; the resonance of the pipe organ; whether the organist that had mastered Bachs Prelude and Fugue in D and tenors in the choir sang in tune. Doctrinal correctness was an incidental oh by the way; truths to her were malleable and relative, not exactly hard and fast divine edicts etched in granite by God, Himself, or rolling off His tongue on earth: the prophet, seer, revelator and President of the Mormon Church The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Writing about what I knew best, my life and times -- which then as now are inextricably linked to the church presented a complex and troublesome challenge. Mormon religion and culture are so deeply embedded in me that it is practically impossible to conjure anything original, fresh, however benign, without running the considerable risk of offending or unsettling my ancestors living and dead (there are scores of each); putting me crosswise with church leaders, from the bishop of my ward upwards to the Apostles themselves (or in their crosshairs, figuratively, of course!). Worse, writing about what I knew best could inadvertently lead to what some may deem to be heretical and ethnically treasonous acts. I was no turncoat. I was born to unflinchingly stand my ground. Though my head be bloodied, it would remain unbowed; I was the captain of my fate, the lord and master of my soul. No Gentile blood coursed through my veins. I, Jedediah Pratt Russell, was fruit from the loins of those roaring Lions of Zion Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. And, most critically, from the resilient apostle brothers Pratt, Parley and Orson.¨ And, like them, from the womb of the stalwart founding mother of feminism and unshrinking head witch Anne Hutchinson of Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut and New York; and Lathrops, and Howlands and Tillies and The Mayflower. Scratch any vein on the family corpus and it will bleed Yankee royal blue. Never mind that in my mind and heart I was a bona fide member of the house of Israel, an anointed son of Joseph and his colorful coat, and his begotten Ephraim and Manasses, a kissing cousin of Judah and his tribe. I was called. I was chosen too. What I once sang in guileless plangent soprano (a year before testosterone-engorged testicles knocked my voice down an octave and, eventually, my faith and works too?) was a
[ZION] Nauvoo Zion reunion
If you drive, you are welcome to stay at the house in Indianapolis along the way. I don't charge much for room and board. ;-) K'aya K'ama Gerald Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/ Freedom Forever At 08:47 PM 11/15/2003 -0600, Heidi the fair wrote: LOVE the suggestion, Gary! We're only 6 hours from Nauvoo...let's plan on it! Till MAY be able to swing it. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Mormon Writers
Ron poses a false dilemma -- but it makes for a good story. A few years ago Elder Richard G. Scott gave a general conference address on the topic of cultural baggage. He indicated that cultural roots are and should be an important and integral part of our membership in the Church. We bring with us the good things, and abandon the dross. It seems painfully obvious to me that Church leaders are fully aware of these issues. Indeed I believe there is more sensitivity and attention devoted to diverse cultural heritage today than I can ever remember. In fact I have Jewish ancestors that bring a unique cultural background to my family, and contribute an important component of my own cultural identity. BTW, I checked at Deseret Book, and found that they list five novels by Chiam Potok. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Mormon Writers
Pray what was the false dilemma I posed? I made it quite clear that much has changed in the past 20 years. The setting for the novel -- the excerpt especially -- is the 70s and 60s. I'm not surprised that Potok's books are carried by Deseret Book. It did carry Evenson's works, as I recall. And, I would expect that Deseret Book just might carry similar treatments (similar to Potok's)of the Mormon culture, written by Mormon authors. A more Rothian approach, however, could still present some problems. Now don't tell me that DB stocks Roth's books too. RBS -Original Message- From: Jim Cobabe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 12:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Mormon Writers Ron poses a false dilemma -- but it makes for a good story. A few years ago Elder Richard G. Scott gave a general conference address on the topic of cultural baggage. He indicated that cultural roots are and should be an important and integral part of our membership in the Church. We bring with us the good things, and abandon the dross. It seems painfully obvious to me that Church leaders are fully aware of these issues. Indeed I believe there is more sensitivity and attention devoted to diverse cultural heritage today than I can ever remember. In fact I have Jewish ancestors that bring a unique cultural background to my family, and contribute an important component of my own cultural identity. BTW, I checked at Deseret Book, and found that they list five novels by Chiam Potok. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// // /// // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The Mouse
From: "Jim Cobabe" [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (BMickey is 75 today. (B (BSomehow defines the age of our culture. (B-- (BAnd Japan decided to celebrate by finally launching the Japanese (Bversion of the Disney Channel. They showed Steamboat Willie and (Bthen Monsters, Inc., with reruns of Boy Meets World coming right (Bup. Don't know why I included that bit of trivia, but there it (Bis. (B (B// (B/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// (B/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// (B/ (B--^ (BThis email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (BEASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 (BOr send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (BTOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! (Bhttp://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html (B--^
RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
The wise and venerable Till explains: Realizing that it was satire really helped, I stopped being offended by the seriousness of some of the absurdities. If that stuff is satire then why am I not allowed to guffaw loudly at all the appropriate places (virtually every line) during the movies? Those movies, to me are almost as funny as Airplane. But nobody else is laughing, and those of the female persuasion in my household don't appreciate my noisy enjoyment. What gives? Tom // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
-Tom- I found the Tolkein movie that I watched (something about rings I think) Just curious if there's a Tolkien movie that isn't about rings... to be a tiresome road movie where the heroes kept getting into impossible situations for no apparent reason and then being rescued in the best Greek tragedy tradition by deux ex machina. Not sure why you find _deus ex machina_ to be tiresome, though in any case I disagree that much if any of the conflict resolution in Tolkien's writings qualifies as such. (Qualifies as _deus ex machina_, I mean. I won't argue about matters of taste, like whether a given story is tiresome.) As for getting into impossible situations for no apparent reason, you may have to give some examples to clue in those of us who don't know what you're referring to. The Potter stuff is similar, but at least mildly entertaining, Apparently there are a few others, here and there, who find the Tolkien movies at least mildly entertaining. I just prefer reading Narnia and having the challenge of sorting out the strong Christian symbols running around the outside of the storyline. Allegory is certainly much easier on the reader, as long as he shares with the author the underlying knowledge necessary to interpret the allegory correctly. Tolkien, though himself a devoted Christian (in fact, he converted C. S. Lewis, if I recall correctly), explicitly denied any allegorical intent in his writings. The result is that the reader has to work a little harder, dig a little deeper, and try to understand his symbolism within the framework the author used to construct the fable -- which in essence is what Tolkien's so-called trilogy is. Granted, not everyone enjoys such a mental workout. They get little reward for their efforts, and thus find it tiresome. Maybe that is what you were referring to, though since you were commenting on the recent movie version and not the books, I really don't know. But I do know that since beginning to reread Tolkien in my forty-first year, I have been immensely enjoying the depth of imagery and texture of narrative that quite escaped the notice of my half-aged self two decades ago. I certainly enjoy allegory as much as the next fellow, but my respect for Tolkien has deepened. However, if the movie adaptations have left you with the sour taste of a contrived-resolution road movie, you perhaps ought not to waste your time reading the books. I can only imagine what the spectre of Tom Bombadil would do to your blood pressure. Hey, I'm Tom Bombadil, Tommy Bom-bom-ba-dil-lo! My head is a sieve, and my brain is like Bril-lo! I dance and I sing, and I sing and I dance! I'm a jolly old godling in search of my pants! Stephen // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
-Tilly- Last winter I decided to take the Beecroft challenge and see what really was in Pride and Prejudice Till! I'm flattered. And glad to hear you enjoyed it, eventually at least. Her style has to grow on you, I guess. Orson Scott Card, LDS writer of fiction/science fiction/fantasy, has complained that most present-day authors eschew developing the character of good guys because, as they claim, bad guys are more interesting. Card maintains that the good guys are actually far more interesting, and that evil is essentially banal. That is exactly the viewpoint I get from Austen novels. Her protagonists are interesting, engaging, honorable if flawed, while the antagonists are ultimately revealed to be veneer-thin and distastefully similar in their smallness. Or that's my view of things. Stephen // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] Scott Card
Stephen Beecroft wrote: --- Orson Scott Card, LDS writer of fiction/science fiction/fantasy, has complained that most present-day authors eschew developing the character of good guys because, as they claim, bad guys are more interesting. --- Yet Card is not above using the same tactics as other writers. I was terribly disappointed with _Saints_. In the story Card apparently found an interest in exploring the sexuality of Joseph Smith and one of his plural wives. Perhaps I'm prudish, but I thought this was speculation on matters that are best left open. That said, I have to admit that some of the other more liberal LDS writers that have ventured into this territory were certainly less sensitive than Card's treatment of the issues. As far as I know, opening this topic for discussion, particularly under the heading of New Mormon History, qualifies singularly as a preoccupation for Signaturi. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
RB Scott wrote: I liked Harry Potter and have read all the books (because my children have). I liked the movie as well. Ditto Lord of The Rings. However, as a rule, neither are my cups of tea. My tastes and interests run more to the likes of: Dickens, Irving, Roth, Salinger, Dickinson, Potok, Wolfe. I thought Judith Freeman's (my first of her) was well crafted. Well, I decided to honor your good taste by taking one of your suggestions, Ron. I didn't want to read any porno, so I decided to read Wolfe instead of Roth. I just got back from the public library where I checked out THE SHADOW OF THE TORTURER by Gene Wolfe. I so glad that you recommended Wolfe, he has long been one of my favorite authors.. Heh, heh... I'm just kidding. I decided that you must have meant Tom Wolfe instead of Thomas Wolfe or Gene Wolfe, and I'm going to try THE BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES by Tom Wolfe. And just to make my evening cultural I picked up the second Laura Croft TOMB RAIDERS from Blockbuster. lol BTW, if you want to try a truly great Wolfe, read THE SHADOW OF THE TORTURER. Of course, Gene writes on a little higher reading level than Tom Wolfe. Hm I wonder if they will ever do a movie of THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly, soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding. (President Gordon B. Hinckley, October 2003) === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
-Original Message- From: Stephen Beecroft [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 6:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] The Return of the King -Tilly- Last winter I decided to take the Beecroft challenge and see what really was in Pride and Prejudice Till! I'm flattered. And glad to hear you enjoyed it, eventually at least. Her style has to grow on you, I guess. Orson Scott Card, LDS writer of fiction/science fiction/fantasy, has complained that most present-day authors eschew developing the character of good guys because, as they claim, bad guys are more interesting. Card maintains that the good guys are actually far more interesting, and that evil is essentially banal. That is exactly the viewpoint I get from Austen novels. Her protagonists are interesting, engaging, honorable if flawed, while the antagonists are ultimately revealed to be veneer-thin and distastefully similar in their smallness. Or that's my view of things. Interesting view, Card's. I'd say it's a mixed bag of good guys and bad. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
-Original Message- From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 8:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] The Return of the King Heh, heh... I'm just kidding. I decided that you must have meant Tom Wolfe instead of Thomas Wolfe or Gene Wolfe, and I'm going to try THE BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES by Tom Wolfe. And just to make my evening cultural I picked up the second Laura Croft TOMB RAIDERS from Blockbuster. lol BTW, if you want to try a truly great Wolfe, read THE SHADOW OF THE TORTURER. Of course, Gene writes on a little higher reading level than Tom Wolfe. I'll stick with Tom. I'm a low brow kinda guy. Ron // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The Return of the King
RB Scott wrote: I'll stick with Tom. I'm a low brow kinda guy. What do you know about Thomas Wolfe who wrote Look Homeward, Angel? I almost borrowed that one before I noticed Tom Wolfe right next to it on the shelf. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly, soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding. (President Gordon B. Hinckley, October 2003) === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] The Return of the King
I also liked Harry Potter (the books are better than the movies), however LOTR movies are very good, though I still love the books more. I don't like much of Salinger. Am a big fan of Dickens and Irving. Dickinson's poetry is some of the best there is: I can still hear the flies buzzing. One of the more intriguing books I'd read in my youth was: My Name Is Asher Lev. Potok's showing ultra-orthodox Jews struggling in a Gentile-Christian world was great. And I always drink my orange juice quickly, so the vitamins don't leak out. Haven't read much Wolfe nor any of Freeman's. Mostly, I read doctrinal writings, science, and translations of ancient writings. Reading Hugh Nibley in my early twenties almost destroyed my brain for anything light hearted or easy. I had to retrain myself to read lighter stuff (like Tolkien ;-) The LOTR is an event-driven story. The world in which the hobbits live is drastically changed, and the epic doesn't end with the destruction of Sauron, but with the reestablishment of the old hobbit order, with the magic folk retiring to other lands over the seas. (for a good explanation of Middle Earth, read Tolkien's Silmarillion, as he explains its entire history). It is an epic. World war, huge years-long journeys, deaths, and moments of hope are all included. Tolkien said he based it upon a medieval Europe with Christian ideals laced within it. Several characters emulate different traits of the Savior: Frodo is the lowly Redeemer and destroyer of the darkness. Aragorn represents the returned King, who conquers his enemies and reigns over a long period of peace. Sam is the symbol of patience and hope in a hopeless situation, returning to the Shire and restoring it after it is destroyed by Saruman (sorry, for those of you who haven't read the book!). There are other symbols in the books, showing that darkness can be destroyed, even when all is seemingly beyond hope. K'aya K'ama, Gerald (Gary) Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html LDS Evidences, Family History, Food Storage, etc. RBS: I liked Harry Potter and have read all the books (because my children have). I liked the movie as well. Ditto Lord of The Rings. However, as a rule, neither are my cups of tea. My tastes and interests run more to the likes of: Dickens, Irving, Roth, Salinger, Dickinson, Potok, Wolfe. I thought Judith Freeman's (my first of her) was well crafted. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
