Re: [zones-discuss] Can you plese let me know whether OpenSolaris 2009.6 support sparse zonnes?
We don't have sparse zones in 2009.06 Hey db, if you don't have sparse root zones in OpenSolaris 2009.06, then what do you call the sparse root zone I made in OpenSolaris 2008.11 by following this tutorial: http://houdini68.blogspot.com/2009/03/sparse-zones-cloning-and-zfs.html The end result of following the instructions does at least superficially kind of seem like a sparse root zone. Is what I created following these instructions not a real sparse root zone (i.e. a fake sparse root zone) or is this a case of the left hand at Sun not knowing what the right hand is doing (i.e. someone at Sun implemented this functionality and other people at Sun don't know about it)? Not to be rude or anything but when I first installed 2008.11 months ago, I typed in OpenSolaris 2008.11 and sparse root zone into google and that was one of the first links that came up. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Can you plese let me know whether OpenSolaris 2009.6 support sparse zonnes?
We don't have sparse zones in 2009.06 Hey Dan, if you don't have sparse root zones in OpenSolaris 2009.06, then what do you call the sparse root zone I made in OpenSolaris 2008.11 by following this tutorial: http://houdini68.blogspot.com/2009/03/sparse-zones-cloning-and-zfs.html The end result of following the instructions does at least superficially kind of seem like a sparse root zone. Is what I created following these instructions not a real sparse root zone (i.e. a fake sparse root zone) or is this a case of the left hand at Sun not knowing what the right hand is doing (i.e. someone at Sun implemented this functionality and other people at Sun don't know about it)? Not to be rude or anything but when I first installed 2008.11 months ago, I typed in OpenSolaris 2008.11 and sparse root zone into google and that was one of the first links that came up. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Can you plese let me know whether OpenSolaris 2009.6 support sparse zonnes?
Hi, He replied to my post earlier advising not to use the inherit-pkg-dir method as it will be unpredictable in OpenSolaris. Do a quick search on this same page with the term um. don't do that and read that! I think the conclusion is there is no sparse zones in OpenSolaris 2009.06. Every zone is a whole-root zone! The thing is I think OpenSolaris 2009.06 is too bleeding edge. The development breaks something of the old, stable technology found in Solaris 10. Sun is using OpenSolaris as a testing ground for Solaris 10 (or the future Solaris 11). OpenSolaris is essentially Solaris 10/11 BETA. And, Sun cannot claim OpenSolaris is mission-critical. Here's another frustration and confusion: if you check the OpenSolaris documentation (NOT Solaris 10 docs) for Containers and Zones (forgot the exact title), you can see that it provides instructions to use inherit-pkg-dir and talks about sparse zones. In actual fact, Sun has now (hopefully, temporarily) removed sparse zones technology but the documentation gives the wrong instructions! Well, anyway... I am thinking of an alternative and do not know if it is possible: mount a ZFS filesystem as read-only in a zone (inside OpenSolaris 2009.06, of course). It this way we can mimick sparse zones just like before. I have not really played with ZFS to that degree. Can anyone tell if this is possible and how to do it? -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Can you plese let me know whether OpenSolaris 2009.6 support sparse zonnes?
On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 09:39:12AM +0200, Nicolas Dorfsman wrote: Le 5 juin 09 à 04:45, Edward Pilatowicz a écrit : The difference between Solaris 10 and OpenSolaris is that, on Solaris 10 by using the create would automatically inherit all the 4 directories mentioned above, and by using create -b would create a whole-root zone. On OpenSolaris, however, by using create (without the -b option) would be creating whole-root zones as it does not inherit any directories from the global zones. It would be nice also if you could explain what is the rationale behind this difference. Thanks! the reason for the difference is that SRV4 packaging is very different from ipkg. Solaris 10 is based of SRV4 packaging and opensolaris is based off of ipkg. ipkg will enable us to do lots of things we couldn't with SRV4 packaging. one of the things we will be able to do is have different contents installed in the global zone and non-global zones. hence inherit-pkg-dir doesn't make a whole lot of sense in this context. ipkg seems to be a great advanced techno. Anyway, it's incredible to remove the inherit-pkg facility. no one removed inherit-pkg-dir. inherit-pkg-dir is closely tied to svr4 packaging, and it still works for systems that use svr4 packaging. but opensoalris uses ipkg, and ipkg replaces svr4. so if we want inherit-pkg-dir support we'd need to re-implement it for ipkg. that is work that hasn't been done yet. inherit-pkg-dir has a lot of sense in many users context ! yes, we (the zones development team, of which i am a member) are well aware of that. I really can't understand how somebody could have validated this : hey ipkg great thing, sparse-zone bad thing...let's remove this. that never happened. Where is the team who create the zone concept here ? you're talking to them on this forum. Where is the thread I missed where this great feature suppression was discussed ? Is there only developpers on board ? calm down. take a deep breath. there is no feature suppression going on. ipkg is changing a lot of things. ipkg zones currently don't support all the functionality that svr4 zones do. there's still a lot of work here to be done. wrt inherit-pkg-dir, we (the zones team) are aware that it provides certain indirect features that users like. for example: - keeping zone software contents in sync with the global zone - read only filesystem (an artifact of using lofi) - etc. as we work on improving the ipkg brand we will be looking at these types of features (previously provided by the inherit-pkg-dir option) and evaluating how they should best be implemented in the ipkg brand. (either via the inherit-pkg-dir option as everyone currently knows it, or perhaps via multiple new options that can be used to replace the old inherit-pkg-dir.) if you'd like to participate in this development process then you've come to the right place. thanks ed ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Can you plese let me know whether OpenSolaris 2009.6 support sparse zonnes?
Many thanks Edward for your answer. Comments below. Le 5 juin 09 à 10:24, Edward Pilatowicz a écrit : On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 09:39:12AM +0200, Nicolas Dorfsman wrote: Le 5 juin 09 à 04:45, Edward Pilatowicz a écrit : ipkg seems to be a great advanced techno. Anyway, it's incredible to remove the inherit-pkg facility. no one removed inherit-pkg-dir. inherit-pkg-dir is closely tied to svr4 packaging, and it still works for systems that use svr4 packaging. but opensoalris uses ipkg, and ipkg replaces svr4. so if we want inherit-pkg-dir support we'd need to re-implement it for ipkg. that is work that hasn't been done yet. inherit-pkg-dir has a lot of sense in many users context ! yes, we (the zones development team, of which i am a member) are well aware of that. I really can't understand how somebody could have validated this : hey ipkg great thing, sparse-zone bad thing...let's remove this. that never happened. Great ! Where is the team who create the zone concept here ? you're talking to them on this forum. Where is the thread I missed where this great feature suppression was discussed ? Is there only developpers on board ? calm down. take a deep breath. :) there is no feature suppression going on. Thanks ! And sorry. I was really afraid (as you've seen). There was too many don't think about it, maybe in Solaris next, maybe not this last year for me. ipkg is changing a lot of things. ipkg zones currently don't support all the functionality that svr4 zones do. there's still a lot of work here to be done. wrt inherit-pkg-dir, we (the zones team) are aware that it provides certain indirect features that users like. for example: - keeping zone software contents in sync with the global zone - read only filesystem (an artifact of using lofi) - etc. as we work on improving the ipkg brand we will be looking at these types of features (previously provided by the inherit-pkg-dir option) and evaluating how they should best be implemented in the ipkg brand. (either via the inherit-pkg-dir option as everyone currently knows it, or perhaps via multiple new options that can be used to replace the old inherit-pkg-dir.) Ok. if you'd like to participate in this development process then you've come to the right place. Well, for now, I've spent most of my OpenSolaris dedicated time on advocacy/evangelise actions. Many times I thought about participating on development...I'm not sure to have the correct brain. But I have to think about it. Nicolas ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Can you plese let me know whether OpenSolaris 2009.6 support sparse zonnes?
On 06/03/09 02:06, Nicolas Dorfsman wrote: Le 2 juin 09 à 23:21, Dan Price a écrit : We don't have sparse zones in 2009.06, but zones work fine, and are quite small by default. Please try installing a zone, and just add the additional software you need use 'pkg install'. Any chance to have it again in the next future ? We like the memory optimization of sparse zones. Just curious, what range of memory usage differences have you seen between sparse and whole root zones, and what where you running as applications? Steffen Nico ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Can you plese let me know whether OpenSolaris 2009.6 support sparse zonnes?
I don't understand your statement that OpenSolaris 2009.06 does not support sparse zone. I would appreciate if you could clarify what you meant by We don't have sparse zones in 2009.06... I thought by using the commands add inherit-pkg-dir, set dir=/xxx (for /lib, /platform, /sbin and /usr) would create so-called sparse-zones on OpenSolaris 2009.06. In fact, I have just successfully doen this a few mintues ago. The difference between Solaris 10 and OpenSolaris is that, on Solaris 10 by using the create would automatically inherit all the 4 directories mentioned above, and by using create -b would create a whole-root zone. On OpenSolaris, however, by using create (without the -b option) would be creating whole-root zones as it does not inherit any directories from the global zones. It would be nice also if you could explain what is the rationale behind this difference. Thanks! -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Can you plese let me know whether OpenSolaris 2009.6 support sparse zonnes?
On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 07:07:36PM -0700, Kevin Pan wrote: I don't understand your statement that OpenSolaris 2009.06 does not support sparse zone. I would appreciate if you could clarify what you meant by We don't have sparse zones in 2009.06... I thought by using the commands add inherit-pkg-dir, set dir=/xxx (for /lib, /platform, /sbin and /usr) would create so-called sparse-zones on OpenSolaris 2009.06. In fact, I have just successfully doen this a few mintues ago. um. don't do that. the inherit-pkg-dir property is only applicable to solaris distros which use SVR4 packaging. (this means solaris 10 and SXCE). it is not applicable to opensolaris system. using it on opensolaris based systems will result in undefined behaviors and unsupporable configurations. we actually have a bug filed on this issue: 567 ipkg zones verify callback should abort if it sees inherit-pkg-dir http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=8567 the fix for this bug will verify that ipkg brand zone configurations don't have any inherit-pkg-dir properties, and if they do the configuration will be reported as invalid. The difference between Solaris 10 and OpenSolaris is that, on Solaris 10 by using the create would automatically inherit all the 4 directories mentioned above, and by using create -b would create a whole-root zone. On OpenSolaris, however, by using create (without the -b option) would be creating whole-root zones as it does not inherit any directories from the global zones. It would be nice also if you could explain what is the rationale behind this difference. Thanks! the reason for the difference is that SRV4 packaging is very different from ipkg. Solaris 10 is based of SRV4 packaging and opensolaris is based off of ipkg. ipkg will enable us to do lots of things we couldn't with SRV4 packaging. one of the things we will be able to do is have different contents installed in the global zone and non-global zones. hence inherit-pkg-dir doesn't make a whole lot of sense in this context. ed ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Can you plese let me know whether OpenSolaris 2009.6 support sparse zonnes?
Edward Pilatowicz wrote: the inherit-pkg-dir property is only applicable to solaris distros which use SVR4 packaging. (this means solaris 10 and SXCE). it is not applicable to opensolaris system. using it on opensolaris based systems will result in undefined behaviors and unsupporable configurations. we actually have a bug filed on this issue: 567 ipkg zones verify callback should abort if it sees inherit-pkg-dir http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=8567 the fix for this bug will verify that ipkg brand zone configurations don't have any inherit-pkg-dir properties, and if they do the configuration will be reported as invalid. The labeled brand used by Trusted Extensions in opensolaris is still using the inherit-pkg-dir property, but this is described in bugzilla 9191 labeled zones should no longer rely on sparse-root functionality and a fix will soon be putback to the /dev repository for 2009.06. Since the labeled brand shares much of its configuration with the ipkg brand, bugzilla 567 should be integrated after 9191. --Glenn ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [zones-discuss] Can you plese let me know whether OpenSolaris 2009.6 support sparse zonnes?
Thank you for reply. Is there any way to manually download the required packages and use them with the zoneadm and zonecfg? for example fetching all OpenSolaris 2009.6 packages and creating a local repository? Thanks. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zones-discuss mailing list zones-discuss@opensolaris.org
