[Zope-dev] ZCatalog becoming empty when using "Update" in conjunction with ZPatterns
Hi all
I had a ZCatalog with about 3500 DataSkin instances indexed. Then
I started to index instances of a regular ZClass as well. Then I
added another index, to catalog an additional property of this
ZClass, and hit "Update Catalog".
When Zope returned from updating, there were no records in the
Catalog, though the Vocabulary was intact. I see that I cannot
search for the DataSkin metatypes using the "Find Objects"
ZCatalog tab: they don't show up in the "Find objects of type"
field. So perhaps this is why updating failed.
However, now the Catalog is not accepting any entries. I originally
did the cataloging using this kind of loop on all the classes I
wanted indexed::
ids = container.Roundup.Issues.defaultRack.getPersistentItemIDs()
for id in ids:
object = container.Roundup.Issues.defaultRack.getItem(id)
Catalog.catalog_object( object
, string.join( object.getPhysicalPath()
, '/'))
When I try to run that again, I still get "There are no objects in
the Catalog." upon return. When I run it using a newly created catalog
('testCatalog') instead, it works fine.
Could anyone perhaps explain what's happening here?
Regards,
Jean
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Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev
On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 08:50:14 -0500, "Andreas Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Also I had expect some input of the community regarding at unicode support >inside Zope. But there has been no feedback. It looks like no one needs >unicode support in Zope ?! :-) I see the smiley, but Im still not sure whether you are joking. Ive had stable, mature unicode support available as patches since Zope version 2.1. Im sure Andreas is familiar with them, we have discussed some details on more than one occasion. Ive expressed to DC several times that I am keen to get these patches into the zope core, and at Brian's request documented the changes in two fishbowl proposals (even that request seemed cheeky at the time; my patches were stable long before the fishbowl process ;-). He said he was keen to get something into version 2.3, then version 2.4, but so far nothing. >The opening of the CVS >is a good starting point but I would like to see more people contributing. So far it really does appear that nothing will happen about this particular issue until it is needed by a zope.com consulting project. If there is anything more that I can do then somebody please tell me what. Toby Dickenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Idea for 10x Zope - specific distributions
Hi, I've been reading the comments around making Zope 10 times bigger with interest - excellent stuff. Not sure if zope-dev is the place for this, but all the other 10x conversation is here. Some of you may know that I was pretty involved in NIP's Zope efforts a while ago but have since moved into another area, leaving it in the capable hands of Chris W and Andy D. I still have an interest in Zope both for my personal projects, and because I wish I could use it in my current role :-) Anyway, looking from the semi-outside, I suspect one quick way to make Zope a lot more popular is to package it up in a number of installations which solve a particular problem. Some of us get into Zope because its neat and interesting technology, but most start from wanting to solve a particular problem. For example: - "I want to run something like Slashdot" - "I'd like to run a simple community site for my local club" - "I would like to maintain a web site as painlessly as possible, with some useful functionality" - "I would like to keep a list of my MP3s and serve them out to my home network" - etc. I would suggest if we spend some time looking at those scenarios, and prepared Zope distributions which got people working as quickly as possible, we'd see a lot of interest. Put them up on Freshmeat as their own projects, pointing direct to the relevant page on zope.org. Most other Open Source solutions require a fair amount of installation of different components, which is a fair amount of hassle. Zope has a lot going for it as the basis for a package solution, as it can be completely self contained, and very easily integrated in with Apache if required. Currently, if you want to do anything interesting with Zope, you have to install Zope and then assemble the solution for yourself from a whole bunch of other products. This doesn't have to happen, its just how Zope is currently distributed. (I know there's some work happening on product management infrastructure, but not only will that take time to happen, it also doesn't solve the problem of the documentation etc. which should also be oriented to the specific problem area.) Once someone downloads an scenario-specific version of Zope and puts it to use, chances are their interest will grow and they will start to use it for other things. But that will only happen once they've solved their initial problem. I don't think preparing such distributions will be too hard. "All" it requires is someone to write some documentation and prepare an installation for Win32 and Linux (and possibly MacOS X for the discerning users). I don't even think we need to be too worried about keeping the distributions updated with the latest & greatest Zope + bits, because unless the new version beings something dramatically useful (or is an important security update) it doesn't matter. To prepare these scenario-specific distributions, I believe we need a series of people who are familiar with the particular problem domain and are willing to build distributions, write documentation, and answer domain-specific questions if there are any. I have almost done this for the Open Source ELN (http://www.opensourceeln.org) and will post a recipie on how to create a Win32 distribution in a week or so which other people can use. The documentation will be something like "Install this file, then go to this URL, join the site (it is a CMF-based thing) and enjoy. If you want to get into customisation, you want to mess with the templates you can see at this URL (the skins folder). If you want to know what is going on, read this document and the rest of Zope.org". Short and simple. What do people think? Do you think scenario-specific distributions would have helped you get into Zope? How did you get into Zope? Would/Could you prepare a distribution for people sharing the same problem you started with? Simon - My opinions are my own, NIP's opinions are theirs -- Simon J. Coles Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] New Information Paradigms Work Phone: +44 1344 753703 http://www.nipltd.com/ Work Fax: +44 1344 753742 === Life is too precious to take seriously === ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev
Clearly this is a situation that has broken down. I'll suggest a resolution in a private note to you in a sec. --Paul Toby Dickenson wrote: > On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 08:50:14 -0500, "Andreas Jung" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>Also I had expect some input of the community regarding at unicode support >>inside Zope. But there has been no feedback. It looks like no one needs >>unicode support in Zope ?! :-) >> > > I see the smiley, but Im still not sure whether you are joking. > > Ive had stable, mature unicode support available as patches since Zope > version 2.1. Im sure Andreas is familiar with them, we have discussed > some details on more than one occasion. > > Ive expressed to DC several times that I am keen to get these patches > into the zope core, and at Brian's request documented the changes in > two fishbowl proposals (even that request seemed cheeky at the time; > my patches were stable long before the fishbowl process ;-). He said > he was keen to get something into version 2.3, then version 2.4, but > so far nothing. > > >>The opening of the CVS >>is a good starting point but I would like to see more people contributing. >> > > So far it really does appear that nothing will happen about this > particular issue until it is needed by a zope.com consulting project. > If there is anything more that I can do then somebody please tell me > what. > > > > Toby Dickenson > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] my comments on i18n
Hi all, I've readed the relevants messages right now, hope didn't missed any. Instead of trying to answer everybody I'd like to make two concrete proposals. As Paul said in the Paris meeting and as Joachim W. has stated in a previous mail, one thing we can work on is in a common way to get translations from message catalogs, from Python code and DTML and ZPT templates. Don't matters where the messages and their translations are stored, either in a "ZBabel Tower" or in a "Message Catalog" or somewhere else, they would be get in the same way. So, Stephane, Joachim and every body else, we can work on this if want. I would propose to do it in a wiki and step by step: first Python code, when have finished with it we move to DTML, and finally to ZPT. The output from this would be an specification for the way to get translations from message catalogs in the ZODB. My second concrete proposal is about content negotiation, which includes language negotiation. There's already a proposal for this in the fishbowl: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/HTTPContentNegotiation This proposal was made by Andreas Jung and Tino Wildenhain, let's move it forward. IMO this should be the first thing to put in the core. -- J. David Ibáñez, Nuxeo.com Debian user (http://www.debian.org) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Open letters, hijacking and the like
--On Sunday, December 2, 2001 3:08 pm -0800 Clark O'Brien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On the one hand ZC is this munificent benefactor of > Zope. > > On the other hand ZC is this poor cash strapped little > company that can't afford to take any interest in Zope > unless they have an immediate incentive. > > YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS DUDE. I AM SORRY BUT THIS > IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE. Heh. In the ideal world, this may be true. However, the real world is a balance. Any company that becomes an open-ended "munificent benefactor" either goes bust or becomes a charity - and even charities need revenue. On the other hand, if Zope Corp. become too internally focussed, they lose the community. The trick that ZC is trying to pull off is to fulfill the promise of "The Cathedral and the Bazzar" and make this Open Source thing happen for real. I for one applaud them and really hope they make it (and that Paul & Co. write a book about it for the rest of us to give to investors to get them to buy into our plans :-). Without projects like Zope Corp., Open Source is just going to be a plaything for students and geeks in their spare time. Me, I'd like Open Source to become The Way Software is Developed. Consider - what other companies have someone of Paul's seniority particiapting forums like this? Forgive me for putting words into his mouth, but at Paul's level, you don't muck around, if something is a waste of time, you stop doing it. Generally the things on your radar would be investors, important customers, strategy, and shaping your organisation. The Zope community is obviously valued by Zope Corp., or they'd ignore us. I suggest we need to all join in a constructive, mature conversation about how to make Zope, and Zope Corp's business model a success. If we pull that off, we'll be doing the world of Open Source Software a great service. BTW, Those of you that aren't yet in the business world, or are currently at a level where business issues don't matter that much, I suggest learning from the business perspective of what's going on here will do you a lot of good in your future careers. Zope as a technology will be hot for a comparatively short period compared to the business model. Simon (who just became a CEO himself, and sees the world in a different light now) - My opinions are my own, NIP's opinions are theirs -- Simon J. Coles Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] New Information Paradigms Work Phone: +44 1344 753703 http://www.nipltd.com/ Work Fax: +44 1344 753742 === Life is too precious to take seriously === ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Don't try to index URL (or any other REQUEST property)
Hi all Turns out that one major cause of my ZCatalog hassles was that I had an index called 'URL'. That is, my ZClass had a property called URL, and I was indexing on this. It makes everything in the ZCatalog vanish. "No objects in Catalog". Deleting this index makes everything re-appear again! :) It seems that having indexes with names that appear in the REQUEST object is a definite no-no. Regards, Jean ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev
- Original Message - From: "Toby Dickenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Andreas Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Joachim Werner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Paul Everitt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Robert Rottermann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 05:34 Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letter to zope-dev On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 08:50:14 -0500, "Andreas Jung" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>Also I had expect some input of the community regarding at unicode support >>inside Zope. But there has been no feedback. It looks like no one needs >>unicode support in Zope ?! :-) > >I see the smiley, but Im still not sure whether you are joking. > >Ive had stable, mature unicode support available as patches since Zope >version 2.1. Im sure Andreas is familiar with them, we have discussed >some details on more than one occasion. I must admit that I have lost the focus while working on other stuff. I also hesitated including the patches because it takes some time understanding the patches. When I checkin patches of other people I like to understand and know about all side effects to minimize the risks because I take over some kind of responsibilities and ownership of the code. The best way to include the patches into Zope is to get CVS access and put your stuff into a sandbox including updated documentation and unittests where neccessary. >Ive expressed to DC several times that I am keen to get these patches >into the zope core, and at Brian's request documented the changes in >two fishbowl proposals (even that request seemed cheeky at the time; >my patches were stable long before the fishbowl process ;-). He said >he was keen to get something into version 2.3, then version 2.4, but >so far nothing. Sometimes things get lost or forgotten. The best way to solve is problem is to become an active contributor with CVS checkin rights (see above). >>The opening of the CVS >>is a good starting point but I would like to see more people contributing. >So far it really does appear that nothing will happen about this >particular issue until it is needed by a zope.com consulting project. This is not true. E.g. unicode support for the ZCatalog in Zope 2.5 has been added without the need of a ZC consulting project. I have implemented this support because I know that unicode support in the ZCatalog is very important due to my professional experiences during the last years. I admit that there is a gap between lots of useful proposals in the Fishbowl and the number of proposals that are really implemented and get included in the Zope core. I think the writers of proposals should try to get a "go ahead" on the zope-coders list after the proposal has been reviewed by the community and ZC and then work the implementation. But don't expect that all proposals can be implemented with ZC resources only. If someone likes to contribute interesting things to Zope, this is now much more easy with the opening of the CVS compared to earlier times. Regards, Andreas - -Andreas JungZope Corporation - - EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.zope.com - - "Python Powered" http://www.python.org - - "Makers of Zope" http://www.zope.org - - "Life is a fulltime occupation" - - ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
DCWorkflow (was Re: [Zope-dev] Another open letter. :-))
Lennart Regebro wrote: > From: "Dieter Maurer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > Here are some things that I feel should be introduced into Zope: >> > - Workflow support. (Because everybody needs it) >>You know DCWorkflow? > Yes. I think it should be moved off CMF and into Zope proper. I am actually working on such an animal, but I have no idea when/if I will be able to release the code. My request to the powers that be to be able to release my code is moving very slowly. In the meantime you can use it with a minimalist portal_actions/types/workflow triad with a little patch that's currently sitting in the PTK tracker. Number 401, I think. Sorry, no doco yet :-) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Zope Exceptions and translation
Hi all, I'am looking for several products to translate zope-site into german. I have found ZBabel and it works very fine for normal websites. It always works fine in the standard_error_message if there is an error_value and an error_type. But it doesnt work if i get an string exception, because the error_value is an complete html-site. Therefore i tryed to patch some Exceptions in HTTPResponse to raise an class-Exception and a short string as error_value. The problem i see is that all exceptions in zope are raised in many defferent places and thats very difficult to patch them or to make them translation-able. I think it is a good way to change all string-exceptions like these in HTTPResponse to class-exceptions and the error_value to a normal description. With these changes the standard_error_message could be raised and there is an ability to translate the error_value. Do i think in the right way or did i missing any facts thanks as ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: DCWorkflow (was Re: [Zope-dev] Another open letter. :-))
>I am actually working on such an animal, but I have no idea when/if I will >be able to release the code. My request to the powers that be to be able >to release my code is moving very slowly. > >In the meantime you can use it with a minimalist >portal_actions/types/workflow triad with a little patch that's currently >sitting in the PTK tracker. Number 401, I think. Sorry, no doco yet :-) PLEASE, look at OpenFlow (a Zope Product). It is based on years of research and covers all aspects. It works very well too! Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: DCWorkflow (was Re: [Zope-dev] Another open letter. :-))
Stephan Richter wrote: >> I am actually working on such an animal, but I have no idea when/if I >> will be able to release the code. My request to the powers that be to >> be able to release my code is moving very slowly. >> >> In the meantime you can use it with a minimalist >> portal_actions/types/workflow triad with a little patch that's >> currently sitting in the PTK tracker. Number 401, I think. Sorry, no >> doco yet :-) > PLEASE, look at OpenFlow (a Zope Product). It is based on years of > research and covers all aspects. It works very well too! Well, I did, actually, for at least a little bit. Its concept of "tokens" seems to be geared much more towards RDBMS-backed apps, and in some areas seems needlessly complex, at least for the app I'm working on. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Exceptions and translation
You're certainly right, but it would be a big job. In fact I recently started a proposal on the subject (bare bones). Please add to it! Especially the requirement for i18n. http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/ClassBasedExceptions seb * Andre Schubert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [011203 15:10]: > Hi all, > > I'am looking for several products to translate zope-site into german. > I have found ZBabel and it works very fine for normal websites. > It always works fine in the standard_error_message if there is an > error_value and an error_type. > But it doesnt work if i get an string exception, because the error_value > is an complete html-site. > Therefore i tryed to patch some Exceptions in HTTPResponse to raise an > class-Exception and a short string > as error_value. > The problem i see is that all exceptions in zope are raised in many > defferent places and thats very difficult > to patch them or to make them translation-able. > I think it is a good way to change all string-exceptions like these in > HTTPResponse to class-exceptions and the error_value > to a normal description. With these changes the standard_error_message > could be raised and there is an ability to > translate the error_value. > Do i think in the right way or did i missing any facts > > thanks as > > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) -- [] j a m k i t seb bacon T: 020 7749 7218 F: 020 7739 8683 M: 07968 301 336 W: www.jamkit.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: DCWorkflow (was Re: [Zope-dev] Another open letter. :-))
At 10:12 AM 12/3/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Well, I did, actually, for at least a little bit. Its concept of "tokens" >seems to be geared much more towards RDBMS-backed apps, and in some areas >seems needlessly complex, at least for the app I'm working on. I don't agree about the RDBMS stuff, but I agree with you about the complexity. However, I think it is so complex due to its generic approach. It would be so much better, if you would try to build a simpler interface on top of it, than implementing everything again. I have actually done that before with Formulator. iuveno was in the process to develop their own HTML Form tool, when Formulator came around and we dropped it all and just wrote a Product that extended Formulator a little bit for our needs. Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Product Development Career
Hi.. I'm a Product Development Engineer from Brunsfield Communication Malaysia. I'm still fresh in this job and need some guideline. My scope of work right now is to study the smart home system. Our company seeking for the manufacturer/principal to get the OEM licences. Please help me, how to perform this task everyday.Feel free to e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Exceptions and translation
Hi, yes it is a big job, but i started at all form-based exceptions, because the members of our websites can manage many things over web-forms, thats why i tried to patch all HTTPResponse-exceptions with writing a product that patches the correspondend functions, further i patched Converters.py so that it returns german error_values. Thats the work i have done and it seems to work for me. All i want is a Product which catches as many exceptions as possible and translate them into, for me, german. I also thought that i can design the product as like as zzlocale, thats its easy to translate into other languages. I dont want to hack the sources, i want a Product but its hard to program all the exceptions. thanks as seb bacon schrieb: > > You're certainly right, but it would be a big job. In fact I recently > started a proposal on the subject (bare bones). Please add to it! > Especially the requirement for i18n. > > http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/ClassBasedExceptions What and how should it add??? > > seb > > * Andre Schubert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [011203 15:10]: > > Hi all, > > > > I'am looking for several products to translate zope-site into german. > > I have found ZBabel and it works very fine for normal websites. > > It always works fine in the standard_error_message if there is an > > error_value and an error_type. > > But it doesnt work if i get an string exception, because the error_value > > is an complete html-site. > > Therefore i tryed to patch some Exceptions in HTTPResponse to raise an > > class-Exception and a short string > > as error_value. > > The problem i see is that all exceptions in zope are raised in many > > defferent places and thats very difficult > > to patch them or to make them translation-able. > > I think it is a good way to change all string-exceptions like these in > > HTTPResponse to class-exceptions and the error_value > > to a normal description. With these changes the standard_error_message > > could be raised and there is an ability to > > translate the error_value. > > Do i think in the right way or did i missing any facts > > > > thanks as > > > > ___ > > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > (Related lists - > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > > -- > >[] j a m k i t > > seb bacon > T: 020 7749 7218 > F: 020 7739 8683 > M: 07968 301 336 > W: www.jamkit.com > > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] Zope Exceptions and translation
This proposal is dead-on to make the errors more accessible and customizable. This is the solution to some of my previous error_message threads. How do we move this from proposal to project? Why not start with a less ambitious first phase of opening up Exceptions control as a "product". How about a Folder attribute or a standard_error_message controller? Then with time ready it for the core. -Trevor > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf > Of Andre Schubert > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:09 AM > To: seb bacon > Cc: zope > Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Exceptions and translation > > > Hi, > > yes it is a big job, but i started at all form-based exceptions, > because the members of our websites can manage many things over > web-forms, thats why i tried to patch > all HTTPResponse-exceptions with writing a product that patches the > correspondend functions, > further i patched Converters.py so that it returns german error_values. > Thats the work i have done and it seems to work for me. > All i want is a Product which catches as many exceptions as possible and > translate them into, for me, german. > I also thought that i can design the product as like as zzlocale, thats > its easy to translate into other languages. > > I dont want to hack the sources, i want a Product but its hard to > program all the exceptions. > > thanks as > > seb bacon schrieb: > > > > You're certainly right, but it would be a big job. In fact I recently > > started a proposal on the subject (bare bones). Please add to it! > > Especially the requirement for i18n. > > > > http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/ClassBasedExceptions > > What and how should it add??? > > > > > seb > > > > * Andre Schubert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [011203 15:10]: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I'am looking for several products to translate zope-site into german. > > > I have found ZBabel and it works very fine for normal websites. > > > It always works fine in the standard_error_message if there is an > > > error_value and an error_type. > > > But it doesnt work if i get an string exception, because the > error_value > > > is an complete html-site. > > > Therefore i tryed to patch some Exceptions in HTTPResponse to raise an > > > class-Exception and a short string > > > as error_value. > > > The problem i see is that all exceptions in zope are raised in many > > > defferent places and thats very difficult > > > to patch them or to make them translation-able. > > > I think it is a good way to change all string-exceptions like these in > > > HTTPResponse to class-exceptions and the error_value > > > to a normal description. With these changes the standard_error_message > > > could be raised and there is an ability to > > > translate the error_value. > > > Do i think in the right way or did i missing any facts > > > > > > thanks as > > > > > > ___ > > > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > > (Related lists - > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > > > > -- > > > >[] j a m k i t > > > > seb bacon > > T: 020 7749 7218 > > F: 020 7739 8683 > > M: 07968 301 336 > > W: www.jamkit.com > > > > ___ > > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > (Related lists - > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Zope string addiction (was: Zope Exceptions and translation)
Since we are all out complaining about things we'd like to see
differently in Zope, let me do my complaining here.
IMO, the string exception problem is one of the worst simptoms of Zope
string addiction.
There are way too many parts of Zope that depend on using the right
string value. Exceptions and permissions are the worst two, I think.
Zope exceptions should be classes, as seb explained, but ideally the
should inherit from a common Zope Exception that is already security
declared, so that we can import and catch them in restricted code. I'm
tired of writing python scripts that need to do a blind catch because
the thing I'm trying to catch is a sligth different form of 'Bad
Request' for something as simple as creating an object in a folder that
happened to have the same id of an object already there. Any string
exception in Zope core or in products should be considered a bug.
As for permissions, I bet many of you have spent a fair amount of hours
debugging a permission problem just to find out that you misspelled or
miscapitalized (is that a word?) a permission and created another
permission in the process.
I think that permissions should be registered somewhere in order to be
used, and the declarative security machinery should barf (or at least
complain loudly) at any attempt to protect something with an
unregistered permission.
I envision something in the lines of:
:# some product module
:
:from AccessControl import declarePermission
:
:editSomeStuffPermission = declarePermission("Edit some stuff", roles=(
:"Manager", "Owner"))
Which would declare a permission called "Edit some stuff" and
automatically give it to the roles roles "Manager" and "Owner"
In the end, editSomeStuffPermission might end up being a plain string,
but if it's not a string, it could be security declared so as to be
importable by restricted code.
Speaking of permissions, when something is not accessible by web or
restricted code, it should not trigger the Authentication mecanism.
Since there is no login:password combo that could be used, as there is
no role that would allow access, Zope shouldn't ask for them.
And speaking of roles, I'm not sure if they should be unstringfied also,
but since they aren't used directly (much) I don't see a pressing need
to unstringfy them.
Cheers, Leo
--
Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like
solitary confinement.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope string addiction (was: Zope Exceptions and translation)
On Monday, December 3, 2001, at 12:07 PM, Leonardo Rochael Almeida wrote: > Since we are all out complaining about things we'd like to see > differently in Zope, let me do my complaining here. > > IMO, the string exception problem is one of the worst simptoms of Zope > string addiction. > > There are way too many parts of Zope that depend on using the right > string value. Exceptions and permissions are the worst two, I think. > > Zope exceptions should be classes, as seb explained, but ideally the > should inherit from a common Zope Exception that is already security > declared, so that we can import and catch them in restricted code. I'm > tired of writing python scripts that need to do a blind catch because > the thing I'm trying to catch is a sligth different form of 'Bad > Request' for something as simple as creating an object in a folder that > happened to have the same id of an object already there. Any string > exception in Zope core or in products should be considered a bug. Hopefully the publishing machinery will get overhauled enough in Zope 3 to address this. What you're seeing is a long-standing feature of Bobo (aka ZPublisher) that allowed the raising of HTTP 'Exceptions'. When one of these exceptions is raised, the publishing machinery translates it into an appropriate HTTP error code. Since this is such a deep and old feature (written long before class based exceptions were implemented), no one's taken the time to go through and deal with updating them. There are actually a few levels of exceptions possible - standard application level exceptions and the more deliberate protocol based exceptions, such as 'Bad Request', 'Unauthorized', 'Forbidden', etc. > As for permissions, I bet many of you have spent a fair amount of hours > debugging a permission problem just to find out that you misspelled or > miscapitalized (is that a word?) a permission and created another > permission in the process. > > I think that permissions should be registered somewhere in order to be > used, and the declarative security machinery should barf (or at least > complain loudly) at any attempt to protect something with an > unregistered permission. A simple solution that I've found to work decently is to have a 'permissions' module. The CMF does this (Products.CMFCore.CMFCorePermissions). It doesn't really register permissions, but it names them:: ModifyPortalContent = 'Modify Portal Content' Then code that needs to use that permission imports CMFCorePermissions: security.declareProtected(CMFCorePermissions.ModifyPortalContent, 'edit') def edit(self, ...): It's not a perfect solution, but it does work - and it gives a place of reference to discover what the Python name of a permission is. I think the Zope AccessControl package has a similar module now. Moving away from the 'string addiction' is a major effort. I don't know how easily it could be retrofitted into the Zope2 architecture, but I do think this should be a major concern for Zope 3 since the core architecture is going through its first significant overhaul in a very long time. Jeffrey P Shell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Exceptions and translation
Hi, we at ZBabel have to same problems with translating the Exceptions of Products. And my personal best solution is to use the translate-Method direct in the Python-Code which raises the Exceptions. That works for every text directly in the Python Code. Regards Dirk Andre Schubert schrieb: > Hi, > > yes it is a big job, but i started at all form-based exceptions, > because the members of our websites can manage many things over > web-forms, thats why i tried to patch > all HTTPResponse-exceptions with writing a product that patches the > correspondend functions, > further i patched Converters.py so that it returns german error_values. > Thats the work i have done and it seems to work for me. > All i want is a Product which catches as many exceptions as possible and > translate them into, for me, german. > I also thought that i can design the product as like as zzlocale, thats > its easy to translate into other languages. > > I dont want to hack the sources, i want a Product but its hard to > program all the exceptions. > > thanks as > > seb bacon schrieb: > > > > You're certainly right, but it would be a big job. In fact I recently > > started a proposal on the subject (bare bones). Please add to it! > > Especially the requirement for i18n. > > > > http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/ClassBasedExceptions > > What and how should it add??? > > > > > seb > > > > * Andre Schubert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [011203 15:10]: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I'am looking for several products to translate zope-site into german. > > > I have found ZBabel and it works very fine for normal websites. > > > It always works fine in the standard_error_message if there is an > > > error_value and an error_type. > > > But it doesnt work if i get an string exception, because the error_value > > > is an complete html-site. > > > Therefore i tryed to patch some Exceptions in HTTPResponse to raise an > > > class-Exception and a short string > > > as error_value. > > > The problem i see is that all exceptions in zope are raised in many > > > defferent places and thats very difficult > > > to patch them or to make them translation-able. > > > I think it is a good way to change all string-exceptions like these in > > > HTTPResponse to class-exceptions and the error_value > > > to a normal description. With these changes the standard_error_message > > > could be raised and there is an ability to > > > translate the error_value. > > > Do i think in the right way or did i missing any facts > > > > > > thanks as > > > > > > ___ > > > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > > (Related lists - > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > > > > -- > > > >[] j a m k i t > > > > seb bacon > > T: 020 7749 7218 > > F: 020 7739 8683 > > M: 07968 301 336 > > W: www.jamkit.com > > > > ___ > > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > (Related lists - > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Help! Why is my XML content being munged by ?
(using friend's email, please reply to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] )
I am noticing the following behavior:
I have created lots of content in XML using my own
personal DTD.
Certain of my XML tags happen to be the same as XHTML
tags, except that they are upper case--
for example, and .
When I refer to my XML content (contained in a
DTMLDocument or some such) using dtml-var,
The tags that look like HTML tags are lowercased!
Even worse, ONLY the closing tags are
lowercased. Needless to say, this drives my
validating parser crazy :-{
It seems Zope is too clever by half: parsing the tags,
looking for "HTML" tags, and lowercasing them.
I saw some parsing code in DocumentTemplate/DT_HTML.py
Is this where it is happening?
How can I turn this off?
Or, must I use a namespace prefix like
Or not use any tags in XML that look like XHTML
Does anyone have advice for me? Please help!
TIA,
--Craeg
BTW, Here is my XML code:
http://www.arielpartners.com/dtd/block.dtd";>
Ariel Partners
Products
This is a blurb for xyz
this is a block of text. blah blah blah.
This is stored in my own product, or a DTMLDocument
(same behavior either way) called foo.
Anyway, when I refer to this via , I get
the following:
http://www.arielpartners.com/dtd/block.dtd";>
Ariel Partners
Products<--- munged
This is a blurb for xyz
this is a block of text. blah blah blah.
<--- munged
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Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com
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[Zope-dev] How to enhance Zope URI resolver to understand URNs?
(using friend's email, please reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) We are putting together a website using Zope. All of our content is stored in XML documents. The documents have links in them, some of which are specified using URNs. The cross links from one local document to another are specified using URNs instead of URLs so that the content remains context-agnostic. In this way, we can map the URN to different URLs depending on the particular Zope instance. We don't want the content to "know" about the particular layout of the ZODB, or even that it happens to be inside Zope at all! (some of our clients use Apache Cocoon, or some other technology) There are three ways I can think of for making this work: 1) Our XSLT transformer could reference a map somewhere and turn the URNs to URLs in the resulting HTML. 2) Our XSLT Transformer could leave the URNs alone, and the Zope URI Resolution mechanism could be enhanced with a lookup table that would map a URN to a URL. Of course, the resolver would be programmed in python with full access to the power of acquisition... [:-)] 3) We could use acquisition directly, but there are two drawbacks a) it still requires knowledge of the layout of the ZODB -- that is, if something is in a particular sub-branch, you might have to use several statements to make it work. That violates separation of concerns. b) we then have to emulate acquisiton in non-Zope environments. Thoughts, anyone? TIA! --Craeg __ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Open Letters and Zope 3
Folks, There is a lot of exciting development happening in Zope 3, which is open to the public in CVS, and it's really an answer to many of the concerns raised in the "open letters" in the past few days. Here are some of the things happening: - The structure of the Python packages has been redone. It will be much easier to see which packages can be used independently of Zope and which are meant for the Zope application. (There are many packages that can be separated already, but it's not easy to figure out.) - The new component architecture is having a very positive impact. Deep multiple inheritance is a thing of the past. The Python code is free of Zope framework clutter, besides occasional ZODB details. - There are interfaces for everything from authorization to folders, so the API is being documented as it is written. - ZPublisher has been refactored significantly and renamed to "Zope.Publisher". No more string exceptions, no more "maybe_webdav" hacks, no more publishing modules. Interfaces exist and more are planned. - The HTTP server has been redone. It is more optimized and there is a cleaner separation of the server (now "Zope.Server") and the publisher, making it easier to create alternate front-ends to the publisher (for speed). There are also tuning options. - There are unit tests for *everything*. - We're using page templates instead of DTML. I invite everyone to check out Zope 3X right away. But before you do, read carefully: We are first creating "Zope 3X", a version of Zope that is not compatible with Zope 2. We are taking off the shackles and blazing forward, applying the lessons we learned from Zope 2 and CMF. Soon we will create "Zope 3". Zope 3 will add Zope 2 backward compatibility. MINI-FAQ Q: What is Zope 3X? A: Zope 3X is Zope rebuilt from the ground up, applying the lessons learned from Zope 2 and CMF. Q: What is Zope 3? A: Zope 3 is Zope 3X plus compatibility with Zope 2 products. Q: Will Zope 3X be compatible with Zope 2 products? A: No. Q: Will Zope 3 be compatible with Zope 2 products? A: Yes. Q: Will Zope 3X support DTML? A: Probably not. Q: Will Zope 3 support DTML? A: Yes. Q: Will Zope 3X be compatible with CMF? A: No. Q: Will Zope 3 be compatible with CMF? A: Very likely, but a lot of the CMF ideas will be folded directly into Zope 3. You might not need CMF anymore. Q: Are Zope 3X and Zope 3 licensed under the new GPL-compatible ZPL 2.0? A: Yes. Q: Why is Zope Corp. doing all this rearchitecting when Zope really needs feature XX? A: To make it easier for you, the developer. We make the flour, you make the cake. (Zope corp. will create major components also, but the best way to expand Zope is to empower developers.) Q: What is the component architecture? A: It's similar to other component architectures in that it lets you fit small pieces of functionality together. While Zope 2 has many parts welded together with inheritance, Zope 3 will let you take things apart and put them together like legos. See: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/VisionStatement Q: How hard will it be to migrate a product to the component architecture? A: There are patterns emerging that should make it straightforward and much easier than starting from scratch. Q: Is I18N in the plans? A: Yes. It is time to start planning for internationalization. If this is your strength, download and get to know Zope 3X and the component architecture wiki, get involved in the community, and please help! Q: How can I help? A: If you're interested in helping and you have time, educate yourself on the component architecture and Zope 3X then volunteer to assist in your particular area of expertise. Q: Is there a tutorial? A: Yes! Look at the /Docs directory in CVS. Note that it's still in development. Q: When will Zope 3 be ready? A: I don't really know, but it's moving forward quickly. INSTRUCTIONS To check out Zope 3X from CVS: cvs -d :pserver:cvs.zope.org:/cvs-repository co -r Zope-3x-branch Zope3 To check out the tutorial: cvs -d :pserver:cvs.zope.org:/cvs-repository co -d Tutorial \ /Docs/ZopeComponentArchitecture/PythonProgrammerTutorial Zope 3X requires Python 2.2b2. To compile the extensions, run "python2.2 stupid_build.py". To start the HTTP server on port 8080, "python2.2 z3.py" (it's very barebones right now; all the meat is in the code.) To run all unit tests in /bin/bash (over 250 of them!): PYTHONPATH=lib/python python2.2 utilities/unittestgui \ Zope.Testing.allZopeTests Again, this is all quite exciting and I hope you can join the action. Shane ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: SV: [Zope-dev] Fishbowl?
On Saturday 01 December 2001 02:29, Magnus Heino wrote: > > 3. We could use another open source tool. Bugzilla springs to > > mind. Yes, it's not Zope, or even python, but it does > > work, certainly better than anything we, as a community, have > > right now or could build in the time it would take to > > install and set up. > > Well, I'm not too sure about that. Bugzilla is an undocumented, hacked, > run-at-one-place-but-dont-try-to-move-it-beast. imho. Just like > sourceforge... > > I gave it a try a while ago, but threw it away. http://roundup.sf.net/ ... is in heavy development, but is also being used right now. Richard ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letters and Zope 3
From: "Shane Hathaway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > - The new component architecture is having a very positive impact. Deep > multiple inheritance is a thing of the past. Oh, DARN! I've been holding Zope up as an example that multiple inheritence DOES work to the people who religiously claim otherwise! :-) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: DCWorkflow (was Re: [Zope-dev] Another open letter. :-))
> PLEASE, look at OpenFlow (a Zope Product). It is based on years of research > and covers all aspects. It works very well too! Correct me if I'm mistaken, but from what I saw OpenFlow is very low level. You'd need an entire additional layer to attain what DCWorkflow does. Not that it's bad to be low level, mind you, but that missing layer prevents people from using it directly like DCWorkflow. Florent -- Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo SARL (Paris, France) +33 1 40 33 79 10 http://nuxeo.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] ZCatalog becoming empty when using "Update" in conjunction with ZPatterns
Are you using any virtual hosting setup of any kind? If so, switching from
using a base class of CatalogAware.CatalogAware to
CatalogPathAware.CatalogAware might solve this problem...
Sean
-Original Message-
From: Jean Jordaan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 1:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Zope-dev] ZCatalog becoming empty when using "Update" in
conjunction with ZPatterns
Hi all
I had a ZCatalog with about 3500 DataSkin instances indexed. Then
I started to index instances of a regular ZClass as well. Then I
added another index, to catalog an additional property of this
ZClass, and hit "Update Catalog".
When Zope returned from updating, there were no records in the
Catalog, though the Vocabulary was intact. I see that I cannot
search for the DataSkin metatypes using the "Find Objects"
ZCatalog tab: they don't show up in the "Find objects of type"
field. So perhaps this is why updating failed.
However, now the Catalog is not accepting any entries. I originally
did the cataloging using this kind of loop on all the classes I
wanted indexed::
ids = container.Roundup.Issues.defaultRack.getPersistentItemIDs()
for id in ids:
object = container.Roundup.Issues.defaultRack.getItem(id)
Catalog.catalog_object( object
, string.join( object.getPhysicalPath()
, '/'))
When I try to run that again, I still get "There are no objects in
the Catalog." upon return. When I run it using a newly created catalog
('testCatalog') instead, it works fine.
Could anyone perhaps explain what's happening here?
Regards,
Jean
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Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letters and Zope 3
A couple of additions to my mini-FAQ: Q: Will there be an official "Zope 3X" release? A: No. It will be available via CVS. Zope 3X is for developers only. Q: Is the component architecture set in stone? A: No, and we hope you'll give feedback, especially in the wiki. Shane ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: DCWorkflow (was Re: [Zope-dev] Another open letter. :-))
On Monday, December 3, 2001, at 10:36 PM, Florent Guillaume wrote: >> PLEASE, look at OpenFlow (a Zope Product). It is based on years >> of research >> and covers all aspects. It works very well too! > > Correct me if I'm mistaken, but from what I saw OpenFlow is very low > level. You'd need an entire additional layer to attain what DCWorkflow > does. > > Not that it's bad to be low level, mind you, but that missing layer > prevents people from using it directly like DCWorkflow. It's not always good to be high-level either. I've written five custom workflows in the past two months, and only one of them in DCWorkflow. There are a lot of complexities in the workflows that I had to design that DCWorkflow didn't handle -- not to mention the fact that the workflows (which is very central to the system that I'm currently developing) are very essential business components and need to be kept under tighter source code control than occasional .zexp checkins can give me. Don't get me wrong - I like DCWorkflow. But it should not be considered the ultimate workflow solution either. Instead, what should be considered the ultimate workflow solution is the CMF's 'portal_workflow' tool and the interface that Workflow objects have to implement. DCWorkflow gives you an object that implements this interface, and that object in turn gives you the ability to define and manage a workflow through the web. But what makes the system so nice is that you can write your own workflow in Python that lives up to that interface. Or you could write a workflow object that could interpret files exported from a visual workflow design tool. The core WorkflowTool does the basic work -- a developer just has to satisfy a documented interface and register their class with the WorkflowTool as another type of Workflow object that can be added to the system. This is what is so compelling to me about the CMF's Workflow Tool - not that I can design a workflow through the web, but that if I design one through the web and run into limitations, I can do it / redo it all in Python. Jeffrey P Shell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope-Coders] Zope 3; getting in on the act?
Jim Fulton wrote: > > This is a quick note to let you all know we're glad you are paying attention. > I'm a little pressed for time right now, but I'll make a much fuller > response soon (no latr than Monday) with lots of information and suggestions > on ways to contribute. Well, Tres beat me to the punch a couple of days before I sent my note, but I hadn't caught up enough to see his message. :/ Hopefully, I'll be able to add a little something. We've created two new mailing lists: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-dev, and [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb4-dev to discuss Zope3 and ZODB 4 (the next generation of ZODB, which will be used with Zope 3). As Tres pointed out, the main place to get information is the ComponentArchitecture Wiki: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture There's a lot of good information there, although it's badly in need of updating, including responsing to comments. I'll try to get a good bit done this week. The Vision Statement at: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/VisionStatement describes the goals and, at a high level, the approach. See especially the "Proposed Solution" section. There are two reasons why the Wiki has been a bit neglected for the last few weeks: 1. I was focussed on a tutorial, aimed as Python programmers, that described, in a step-by-step detailed way, with an example, how to develop content and components for Zope3. The tutorial is available via CVS in the "Docs" area. You can browse it at: http://cvs.zope.org/Docs/ZopeComponentArchitecture/PythonProgrammerTutorial/ Note that: - Only Chapter 1 is (mostly) done. - The tutorial text is in the README.txt files. - The tutorial is arranged into chapters and the chapters are arranged into steps. The steps are executable Python packages. Step5 of chapter actually worked with the checked in Prototype code (see below) as of this writing. :) 2. When I reached a stable revision of the tutorial, we began working on an evolutionary (we hope) prototype of a future architecture necesary to run the tutorial. We still have a ways to go. While I was working on this document, Shane Hatheway posted an excellent summary and FAQ of some of the recent developmebnts: http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2001-December/014313.html http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2001-December/014318.html The first link above includes instructions for checking out the Zope 3x prototype. You can also browse the prototype code at: http://cvs.zope.org/Zope3/?only_with_tag=Zope-3x-branch We'd very much like community involvement at all levels. I encourage people to get involved. The mailing list and Wiki are a good place to start. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (888) 344-4332http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] ZMailman mailing list
Hello everyone, I have setup a project page at http://demo.iuveno-net.de/iuveno/Products/ZMailman You can subscribe to the Mailing List there and also get to the CVS. I will give anyone who likes, write access to the CVS and/or the project page. Maybe someone who tried to get my ZMailman proof of concept going on his Zope install could write a how-to and put it on the site? Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] My thoughts on the development process
Hi there, I've read parts of the open letter threads just now. There's a lot of talk about how if only we have better tools the whole process will go better and Zope will get more contributors. That's a typical hacker response, and I do this myself as well. Throwing more technology at a problem doesn't always make a problem go away. And though technological solutions to social problems are nice if you can have them, and we should look for them, they don't always work. I'm not convinced more technology will make the dead fish problem go away. I think the contributing process is in fact too heavyweight. It should be easier for people to get in drastic changes to Zope. The only way for people to take more responsibility if they can actually have it. Only a few people will take it, but that's more than what is possible now, with possibly the single exception of my taking responsibility for ParsedXML. And until recently I was still in the position of doubting whether I really had it formally, not just de-facto. I kept asking for approval and guidelines from the official maintainers, but they were too busy (no blame to them), so I went on anyway and did a release eventually. I dread having to go through the fishbowl to add in my 'node path' implementation to ParsedXML. I've done the design work, I've implemented most of it, and I feel I'd have mostly wasted time writing a fishbowl proposal. I hadn't even explored the problem enough to be able to do that. I needed to prototype it to understand it. I've discussed some issues with people locally and and on the Zope-XML mailing list. And I'll probably release a version in a few days. Perhaps adding Formulator to the Zope core would be nice eventually. But going through the fishbowl bureaucracy would take forever. I only have so much time to spend on it, and I'd rather spend time improving the product itself. And now look at how the Zope core is actually being developed. Sure, there's lots of stuff in the fishbowl about what the Zope future should be like. Plenty of stuff, though some stuff is rather hard to find. But I have a lot of praise for what the Zope Corp people have accomplished it it; it's a lot better than having no such thing at all, even if it's only used as a notification service in part. The main thinking about the directions of Zope is not done in the fishbowl or on the lists, it's in the minds of the talented people at Zope Corp and in the brainstorm sessions they hold together. That's the natural way people work. I work that way too. Such a process can occur on mailing lists as well, but it's very hard to break into it. I've tried several times. I'll keep trying as I'm convinced it's possible, but it takes a lot of persistence. Time will tell. On the Zope-XML list I just post regular updates about my thinking to encourage discussion, and sometimes that works. So what am I trying to get at with this mail? One thing is that the process is too heavy-weight right now. The other thing is that the core coders at Zope Corp are in a position nobody else is in, and that should change. They are the only ones that can get around the fishbowl if they so desire. They can use the fishbowl in effect as a notification service. Not that they want to; I don't doubt their good intentions for one minute. But I want to be able to use it like that too when I need to. Others should be able to as well. I think I and a few other contributors are slowly getting to that position, but it happens too slowly and takes way too much persistence now. So let's trade in some risks to the Zope core development (rash action and messed up stuff happening once every while), in exchange for a lot more active contributors. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Cool stuff!
I just looked through a few parts of the Zope3 CVS tree, and I must say it's looking mighty nice so far at the 50,000 foot level... I especially like the Zope.Transaction package; it'll eliminate the need for my ZLite.Transaction hack. Indeed, much of the package-level refactoring seems much more friendly to those of us who'd like to pick and choose the parts we use. The Zope.Publisher and Zope.App.ZopePublication packages look cool too. Very nice configuration system, with meta-configuration, even. Very awesome. I can see how this will make it easier to create products that influence other products, although I'm not sure how the import order works out; haven't gotten that far just yet. Nonetheless, this is all *really* impressive stuff. So far, the only thing that's been at all negative is that many of the 'IFooBarBaz' interfaces seem a little confusing as to what they do, in that their names don't seem very obvious or self-documenting, at least to me. But I promise that once I *do* figure out what they do, I'll try to suggest more evocative names. :) The interfaces in the tutorial could use improvement similarly; again if I can think of anything better I'll try to suggest naming conventions. P.S. Speaking of naming, I still dislike "feature" as a term for interface implementations; various suggestions available on the "Feature" page of the ComponentArchitecture Wiki. :) P.P.S. You guys must've been *really* busy on this... I'm really impressed. The new stuff so far seems like a breath of fresh air where Zope internals are concerned. Kudos! ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] my comments on i18n
Hi! Just a very short comment: > As Paul said in the Paris meeting and as Joachim W. has > stated in a previous mail, one thing we can work on is in > a common way to get translations from message catalogs, from > Python code and DTML and ZPT templates. exactly > Don't matters where the messages and their translations are > stored, either in a "ZBabel Tower" or in a "Message Catalog" > or somewhere else, they would be get in the same way. yep > I would propose to do it in a wiki and step by step: first Python > code, when have finished with it we move to DTML, and finally > to ZPT. My priorities are the other way around, but that shouldn't be the problem ... > The output from this would be an specification for the way to > get translations from message catalogs in the ZODB. yep > My second concrete proposal is about content negotiation, which > includes language negotiation. There's already a proposal for > this in the fishbowl: > >http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/HTTPContentNegotiation > > This proposal was made by Andreas Jung and Tino Wildenhain, let's > move it forward. IMO this should be the first thing to put in the > core. We don't have anything sophisticated there. So we are very open to those things. Concerning the Wiki: Why not go on using the Wiki Stephane Fermigier has set up for us? Joachim ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] My thoughts on the development process
Hi Martijn! Formulator is a good case how things can work. You did the main design work on your own. And that was very good. Then we had the chance to contribute ideas for new fields etc. I now have my own FormulatorExtensions product with stuff I could imagine being part of Formulator as soon as they are really ready for it. Others added multi-page forms support etc. But all that contributing and extending only works because there was a sane architecture at the beginning. So the contributor doesn't have to answer the question "How would I possibly like my forms?", but just answer questions that are much more focussed, like "How can I add a WYSIWYG editor to text fields?". It is possible, but painsome to do design work on the web or via a mailing list ... BTW: Just for the record: FormulatorExtensions currently include: - a Link field that has a Javascript pop-up to fill it with local links from a tree view of your site. The pop-up can be specified as a method. Also works for choosing images from pools - an HTML field with stripogram support (thanks to Dirk Datzert) and an optional WYSIWYG editor (IE only) - an internationalized version of the list field (to be able to translate the list items via ZBabel) - a size field for tables etc. (choose a unit like % or px, and add a value) Joachim ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] My thoughts on the development process
--- Martijn Faassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi there, > > I've read parts of the open letter threads just now. > There's a lot of > talk about how if only we have better tools the > whole process will go > better and Zope will get more contributors. > > That's a typical hacker response, and I do this > myself as well. > Throwing more technology at a problem doesn't always > make a problem go > away. And though technological solutions to social > problems are nice if > you can have them, and we should look for them, they > don't always work. I agree, the problem is more social than technological. However, cool technology that saves time rather than wastes it, makes contributing a pleasure rather than a pain, would be a great benefit IMHO. I was actually really down on Zope on Wed and Thurs. I was about ready to go and do something myself. Mostly writing and theorizing at first and then developing. However, Friday turned me around. I don't want to start from scratch, it's too hard. I don't want to "build" a community from scratch, it's damn near impossible. We've already got a tremendous community here, and it hasn't realized its potential even. So, I decided to stay here and do my theorizing and tinkering with Zope stuff, even if I'm not in 100% agreement with the way everything is done. And if nobody likes what I do, then I'll have my own Zope the way I want it thank you. If people like it then fine, they can have it. Nothing technological changed my mind, it was purely social. > I'm not convinced more technology will make the dead > fish problem go > away. I think the contributing process is in fact > too heavyweight. It > should be easier for people to get in drastic > changes to Zope. The only > way for people to take more responsibility if they > can actually have it. > Only a few people will take it, but that's more than > what is possible > now, with possibly the single exception of my taking > responsibility for > ParsedXML. And until recently I was still in the > position of doubting > whether I really had it formally, not just de-facto. > I kept asking for > approval and guidelines from the official > maintainers, but they were too > busy (no blame to them), so I went It will be a slow and deliberate process to allow "outsiders" the ability to make big waves. It has to be in many respects. But I think each contributor will slowly make part of the core their own and take the initiative with it. > > I dread having to go through the fishbowl to add in > my 'node path' > implementation to ParsedXML. I've done the design > work, > I've implemented most of it, and I feel I'd have > mostly wasted time writing > a fishbowl proposal. I hadn't even explored the > problem enough to be able > to do that. I needed to prototype it to understand > it. I've discussed some > issues with people locally and and on the Zope-XML > mailing list. And > I'll probably release a version in a few days. Yes, prototypes are extremely valuable, more-so than fishbowl proposals to us hackers. But not everyone can appreciate a prototype, because the audience for feedback is not always hackers. Making a prototype work for non-techies is a lot of work too... > > Perhaps adding Formulator to the Zope core would be > nice eventually. But > going through the fishbowl bureaucracy would take > forever. I only have so > much time to spend on it, and I'd rather spend time > improving the product > itself. Yup, there needs to be people charged with analysing and taking outside products and integrating them with the core platform. A process to do this should be put in place. > > And now look at how the Zope core is actually being > developed. Sure, > there's lots of stuff in the fishbowl about what the > Zope future should be like. > Plenty of stuff, though some stuff is rather hard to > find. But I have a lot > of praise for what the Zope Corp people have > accomplished it it; it's a lot > better than having no such thing at all, even if > it's only used as > a notification service in part. I agree. It's better than nothing. > The main thinking about the directions of Zope is > not done in the fishbowl or > on the lists, it's in the minds of the talented > people at Zope Corp and in > the brainstorm sessions they hold together. That's > the natural way people > work. I work that way too. Such a process can occur > on mailing lists as > well, but it's very hard to break into it. I've > tried several times. > I'll keep trying as I'm convinced it's possible, but > it takes a lot of > persistence. Time will tell. On the Zope-XML list I > just post regular updates > about my thinking to encourage discussion, and > sometimes that works. There needs to be some way to elicit discussion. Again, I think this is a social issue. We need to "market" the idea that the community voice matters, and that feedback is a valuable contribution, no matter at what level it comes from or how it is made. I intend to try to do this
Re: [Zope-dev] Open Letters and Zope 3
--- Shane Hathaway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A couple of additions to my mini-FAQ: > > Q: Will there be an official "Zope 3X" release? > A: No. It will be available via CVS. Zope 3X is > for developers only. Hmmm, I get the feeling that if it is good enough, it might get "released" anyway... Kinda like the way those "killer bees" escaped from the lab. -Casey __ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] My thoughts on the development process
I think Martijn sums up the issue nicely with this message. The development process is pretty heavyweight at the moment, and only things that have really high velocity or lots of weight when they hit the process actually make it in to the core. In some ways, this is the very purpose of the process -- weeding the wheat from the chaff by ensuring that what goes through gets its tires kicked and rekicked many times. But as I see it, it's ultimately ineffective for two reasons, neither of them having to do with technology: 1. The process does not encourage "hit and run" contribution. Many folks don't want to contribute major features, they just want to change tiny things when it suits them. Lots of times these changes are not detrimental; usually it's more detrimental to disallow folks from making them in order to keep Zope "pure" as opposed to allowing the changes and perhaps accepting some amount of cruft as a result. Zope is already so crufty in many places that it's hard to be pious about it with a straight face. ;-) 2. The process lies. It says that if you follow it, a well- designed implementation of your proposal has a good chance of making it in to the core after the process as its documented is finished. The lie is that one step of the process isn't documented: it needs to get past ZC to get in. There's nothing major that has gone into the core that hasn't at some point needed to go through ZC. ZC is usually very busy with gigs and cant technically review everything, thus some very good proposals languish. It was only because I continually whined that what used to be CST is now in Zope 2.5, and I work at ZC. It's gotta be damn near impossible for folks outside of ZC. No technological solution can really make much an impact on either of these problems. I actually think that with Zope3 in progress, it's a great time to completely and formally hand off bits and pieces of Zope2 ownership to folks within ZC and without. This should be the first goal towards ZC-community collaboration, IMHO. - C Martijn Faassen wrote: > Hi there, > > I've read parts of the open letter threads just now. There's a lot of > talk about how if only we have better tools the whole process will go > better and Zope will get more contributors. > > That's a typical hacker response, and I do this myself as well. > Throwing more technology at a problem doesn't always make a problem go > away. And though technological solutions to social problems are nice if > you can have them, and we should look for them, they don't always work. > > I'm not convinced more technology will make the dead fish problem go > away. I think the contributing process is in fact too heavyweight. It > should be easier for people to get in drastic changes to Zope. The only > way for people to take more responsibility if they can actually have it. > Only a few people will take it, but that's more than what is possible > now, with possibly the single exception of my taking responsibility for > ParsedXML. And until recently I was still in the position of doubting > whether I really had it formally, not just de-facto. I kept asking for > approval and guidelines from the official maintainers, but they were too > busy (no blame to them), so I went on anyway and did a release eventually. > > I dread having to go through the fishbowl to add in my 'node path' > implementation to ParsedXML. I've done the design work, > I've implemented most of it, and I feel I'd have mostly wasted time writing > a fishbowl proposal. I hadn't even explored the problem enough to be able > to do that. I needed to prototype it to understand it. I've discussed some > issues with people locally and and on the Zope-XML mailing list. And > I'll probably release a version in a few days. > > Perhaps adding Formulator to the Zope core would be nice eventually. But > going through the fishbowl bureaucracy would take forever. I only have so > much time to spend on it, and I'd rather spend time improving the product > itself. > > And now look at how the Zope core is actually being developed. Sure, > there's lots of stuff in the fishbowl about what the Zope future should be like. > Plenty of stuff, though some stuff is rather hard to find. But I have a lot > of praise for what the Zope Corp people have accomplished it it; it's a lot > better than having no such thing at all, even if it's only used as > a notification service in part. > > The main thinking about the directions of Zope is not done in the fishbowl or > on the lists, it's in the minds of the talented people at Zope Corp and in > the brainstorm sessions they hold together. That's the natural way people > work. I work that way too. Such a process can occur on mailing lists as > well, but it's very hard to break into it. I've tried several times. > I'll keep trying as I'm convinced it's possible, but it take
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope-Annce] jcNTUserFolder 0.2.1 released
"Jay, Dylan" wrote: > Can I ask you a question? Something I;ve tried to do in the past with > jcNTUserFolder (maybe not tried hard enough) is this. I want all my users to > be authenticated via challenge-response mechanism such that no one has to > enter a username or password. > >From what I can work out jcNTUserFolder doesn't actually help with this at > all, or have I missed something? I wrote jcNTUserFolder just to do that, you know :-) But, currently, you have to go through IIS. I think there is an howto on http://www.zope.org/Members/jephte I have tried to look at challenge/response authentication, but it is so hard and so much undocumented I left it. it would require to change Medusa (IIS and IE have a no-close connection when in challenge/response mode. it seems it must be so at least for the challenge/response part of the protocol; I suppose it would require too much time if they have to authenticate on each connection :), and to change Zope (you don't have the password, just a hash, that you must ask the PDC to validate for you, unless someone know how the hash is generated), and to have a compatible User Folder. however, if someone can point me to a good source of documentation about that, and some example code, I may want to give it a try again. regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] RE: [Zope-Annce] jcNTUserFolder 0.2.1 released
One way is to not replicate the challenge-response functionatlity at all. Put Zope behind IIS in two spots. One which is protected and thus elicits a challenge/response and another that has IIS anoymous access on it. Then get the zope security machinery to alternate between the two urls depending on the security required. Then all you need is remote user mode in Zope to work by allowing any remote user secure access. Perhaps remembering new REMOTE_USER's so further roles can be associated with them. I've tried doing this in the past but I think my install of IIS was screwed and I couldn't use either jcNTUserFolder or GUF to allow any REMOTE_USER in, so I gave up. Would my idea work, or is it flawed? > -Original Message- > From: Jephte CLAIN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2001 3:40 PM > To: Jay, Dylan > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Zope-Annce] jcNTUserFolder 0.2.1 released > > > "Jay, Dylan" wrote: > > Can I ask you a question? Something I;ve tried to do in the > past with > > jcNTUserFolder (maybe not tried hard enough) is this. I > want all my users to > > be authenticated via challenge-response mechanism such that > no one has to > > enter a username or password. > > >From what I can work out jcNTUserFolder doesn't actually > help with this at > > all, or have I missed something? > I wrote jcNTUserFolder just to do that, you know :-) > But, currently, you have to go through IIS. I think there is > an howto on > http://www.zope.org/Members/jephte > > I have tried to look at challenge/response authentication, > but it is so > hard and so much undocumented I left it. it would require to change > Medusa (IIS and IE have a no-close connection when in > challenge/response > mode. it seems it must be so at least for the > challenge/response part of > the protocol; I suppose it would require too much time if they have to > authenticate on each connection :), and to change Zope (you don't have > the password, just a hash, that you must ask the PDC to validate for > you, unless someone know how the hash is generated), and to have a > compatible User Folder. > > however, if someone can point me to a good source of > documentation about > that, and some example code, I may want to give it a try again. > > regards, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope-Annce] jcNTUserFolder 0.2.1 released
"Jay, Dylan" wrote: > One way is to not replicate the challenge-response functionatlity at all. this is the solution i have opted for. it has run now for two years :-) the problem is Zope cannot be in remote user mode and in normal mode at the same time. I think that setting up a zeo cluster (one zope instance that is served through IIS, and is used to update content, and one which has the normal behavior, and serves public content) could enable this, but I haven't tried yet. > Put Zope behind IIS in two spots. One which is protected and thus elicits a > challenge/response and another that has IIS anoymous access on it. Then get > the zope security machinery to alternate between the two urls depending on > the security required. please elaborate: you mean that when access to http://iis.host.com/zope_anonymous.pcgi/protected_resource is forbidden, zope automatically redirect the user to http://iis.host.com/zope_protected.pcgi/protected_resource? > Then all you need is remote user mode in Zope to work > by allowing any remote user secure access. Perhaps remembering new > REMOTE_USER's so further roles can be associated with them. I don't understand :-( regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] RE: [Zope-Annce] jcNTUserFolder 0.2.1 released
> -Original Message- > From: Jephte CLAIN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2001 5:51 PM > To: Jay, Dylan > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Zope-Annce] jcNTUserFolder 0.2.1 released > > > "Jay, Dylan" wrote: > > One way is to not replicate the challenge-response > functionatlity at all. > this is the solution i have opted for. it has run now for two > years :-) > the problem is Zope cannot be in remote user mode and in > normal mode at > the same time. I think that setting up a zeo cluster (one > zope instance > that is served through IIS, and is used to update content, > and one which > has the normal behavior, and serves public content) could enable this, > but I haven't tried yet. There has to be some way round that. Is the REMOTE_USER variable still pased in even if zope isn't in remote user mode? Couldn't a user folder be implemented to use it? > > Put Zope behind IIS in two spots. One which is protected > and thus elicits a > > challenge/response and another that has IIS anoymous access > on it. Then get > > the zope security machinery to alternate between the two > urls depending on > > the security required. > please elaborate: you mean that when access to > http://iis.host.com/zope_anonymous.pcgi/protected_resource is > forbidden, > zope automatically redirect the user to > http://iis.host.com/zope_protected.pcgi/protected_resource? Yes, that's exactly what I mean. > > Then all you need is remote user mode in Zope to work > > by allowing any remote user secure access. Perhaps remembering new > > REMOTE_USER's so further roles can be associated with them. > I don't understand :-( I guess what I'm talking about is a user folder implementation that uses the REMOTE_USER variable and contructs a user object around that. It assumes that IIS has done it's job and the this REMOTE_USER is allowed in. It looks to see if it's seen this user before. If not it creates the user with some default role. If the user does exist with the same name as REMOTE_USER then this user is used with all it's associated roles etc. I had thought this is what jcNTUserFolder did but I couldn't get it to work like this. I think what it does do is try to authenticate directly with the nt domain server using a name and password supplied by the user? ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope-Annce] jcNTUserFolder 0.2.1 released
"Jay, Dylan" wrote: > There has to be some way round that. Is the REMOTE_USER variable still pased > in even if zope isn't in remote user mode? Couldn't a user folder be > implemented to use it? nope. REMOTE_USER is passed when the web server (IIS in our case) has done the *authentication* and said: "ok, REMOTE_USER is the name of the user coming in, and he's ok". then, zope just has to do *authorization*: "does this user whose name is given has the correct role to acces that ressource?" > > please elaborate: you mean that when access to > > http://iis.host.com/zope_anonymous.pcgi/protected_resource is > > forbidden, > > zope automatically redirect the user to > > http://iis.host.com/zope_protected.pcgi/protected_resource? > Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Hum, this is an idea to explore further. this is interesting. and no, jcNTUserFolder does not do that right now. > I guess what I'm talking about is a user folder implementation that uses the > REMOTE_USER variable and contructs a user object around that. It assumes > that IIS has done it's job and the this REMOTE_USER is allowed in. this is exactly the default behavior. > It looks to see if it's seen this user before. If not it creates the user with some > default role. this is interesting. in the default implementation, if the remote user does not exist in the acl_users, it is considered anonymous. > If the user does exist with the same name as REMOTE_USER then > this user is used with all it's associated roles etc. > > I had thought this is what jcNTUserFolder did but I couldn't get it to work > like this. I think what it does do is try to authenticate directly with the > nt domain server using a name and password supplied by the user? jcNTUserFolder, like the standard one, behave differently in remote user mode and in normal mode (actually, it does not modify the default behavior): - in normal mode, it tries to log the user on the local machine, and if it can, it assumes that the username/password pair is valid, and then let Zope do authorization - in remote user mode, it does not authenticate because the REMOTE_USER has already authenticated, and let Zope do authorization. regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Exceptions and translation
Trevor Toenjes schrieb: > > This proposal is dead-on to make the errors more accessible and > customizable. This is the solution to some of my previous error_message > threads. > > How do we move this from proposal to project? > > Why not start with a less ambitious first phase of opening up Exceptions > control as a "product". How about a Folder attribute or a > standard_error_message controller? Yes thats it let us begin this project because it seems that a lot of poeple would use it. > Then with time ready it for the core. Thats the way. Thanks as > -Trevor > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf > > Of Andre Schubert > > Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 11:09 AM > > To: seb bacon > > Cc: zope > > Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Exceptions and translation > > > > > > Hi, > > > > yes it is a big job, but i started at all form-based exceptions, > > because the members of our websites can manage many things over > > web-forms, thats why i tried to patch > > all HTTPResponse-exceptions with writing a product that patches the > > correspondend functions, > > further i patched Converters.py so that it returns german error_values. > > Thats the work i have done and it seems to work for me. > > All i want is a Product which catches as many exceptions as possible and > > translate them into, for me, german. > > I also thought that i can design the product as like as zzlocale, thats > > its easy to translate into other languages. > > > > I dont want to hack the sources, i want a Product but its hard to > > program all the exceptions. > > > > thanks as > > > > seb bacon schrieb: > > > > > > You're certainly right, but it would be a big job. In fact I recently > > > started a proposal on the subject (bare bones). Please add to it! > > > Especially the requirement for i18n. > > > > > > http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/ClassBasedExceptions > > > > What and how should it add??? > > > > > > > > seb > > > > > > * Andre Schubert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [011203 15:10]: > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I'am looking for several products to translate zope-site into german. > > > > I have found ZBabel and it works very fine for normal websites. > > > > It always works fine in the standard_error_message if there is an > > > > error_value and an error_type. > > > > But it doesnt work if i get an string exception, because the > > error_value > > > > is an complete html-site. > > > > Therefore i tryed to patch some Exceptions in HTTPResponse to raise an > > > > class-Exception and a short string > > > > as error_value. > > > > The problem i see is that all exceptions in zope are raised in many > > > > defferent places and thats very difficult > > > > to patch them or to make them translation-able. > > > > I think it is a good way to change all string-exceptions like these in > > > > HTTPResponse to class-exceptions and the error_value > > > > to a normal description. With these changes the standard_error_message > > > > could be raised and there is an ability to > > > > translate the error_value. > > > > Do i think in the right way or did i missing any facts > > > > > > > > thanks as > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > > > (Related lists - > > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > > > > > > -- > > > > > >[] j a m k i t > > > > > > seb bacon > > > T: 020 7749 7218 > > > F: 020 7739 8683 > > > M: 07968 301 336 > > > W: www.jamkit.com > > > > > > ___ > > > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > > (Related lists - > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > > > > ___ > > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > > (Related lists - > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) > > > > ___ > Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev > ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** > (Related lists - > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce > http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/z
