[Zope-dev] Is Zope.2.7.4 feature frozen ?

2004-12-16 Thread Rodrigo Dias Arruda Senra
Hi,
is the  Zope 2.7.4 feature frozen ?
If not, I believe that the patch :
   http://zope.org/Collectors/Zope/1584
   It adds the directive 'extensions' to zope.conf.
   If overriden, then the specified directory will be used for 
ExternalMethods,
   instead of the default $INSTANCE/Extensions.

IMVHO it would be simple to add and nice to have it there.
For further information check the thread Give 'Extensions' a 
configurable directory in zope.conf,
in zope users mailling list.

Nevertheless,  that patch was cooked for 2.8. I volunteer to clean it, 
port it back and
test it under 2.7.4b, and re-submit to ZC if approved.

best regards,
Rod Senra

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Re: [Zope-dev] Is Zope.2.7.4 feature frozen ?

2004-12-16 Thread Andreas Jung

--On Donnerstag, 16. September 2004 11:16 Uhr -0300 Rodrigo Dias Arruda 
Senra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi,
is the  Zope 2.7.4 feature frozen ?
Yes.
Nevertheless,  that patch was cooked for 2.8. I volunteer to clean it,
port it back and
test it under 2.7.4b, and re-submit to ZC if approved.
Consider to clean it up for 2.7.5. New features for 2.7.4 final are 
currently
not accepted.

Andreas
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope-Coders] Roundtrip-safe DAV

2004-12-16 Thread Florent Guillaume
Emiliano Heyns  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Though this (zope-dev) is the right place to discuss them (I suggest we
  stop crossposting to zope-coders to avoid duplication).
  
  I haven't looked at the patches, but I like the idea of limiting the
  visibility of DAV items to those that make sense.
 
 Sorry for posting the patch to the list. I'll add it to a Zope
 Collector -- the CMF collector seems most appropriate, yeah?

Yes the CMF collector is fine.
Thanks.

Florent

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope-Coders] Roundtrip-safe DAV

2004-12-16 Thread Florent Guillaume
Emiliano Heyns  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:38:26 +0100, Florent Guillaume [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  Yes the CMF collector is fine.
 
 Must issues be approved before showing up? I posted the issue but
 can't find it back.

No it should be visible, and in the Pending state.
And it's not there and I didn't get any notification email of a new entry.
Please repost it (http://collector.zope.org/CMF).

Florent

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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Zope-Coders] Roundtrip-safe DAV

2004-12-16 Thread Emiliano Heyns
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:14:36 +0100, Florent Guillaume [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 No it should be visible, and in the Pending state.
 And it's not there and I didn't get any notification email of a new entry.
 Please repost it (http://collector.zope.org/CMF).

I appearantly need an account on the zope site to actually store the
issue (after submitting it says 'you need an account...'. When I try
to create an account it just goes back to the registration page with
no indication on what went wrong or right, no account created,
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[Zope-dev] Zope Service on Windows

2004-12-16 Thread Christian Theune
Howdi.

I just checked in how I finally got Zope 2.7.x to run as a service on
Windows again. Setting the PYTHONPATH environment actually even makes
more sense here as the CreateProcess API call won't take the sys.path
into the new python, but the environment variables. This now also plays
with the import of sitecustomize.py correctly.

I still wonder why this seems to behave differently in 2.7 as in 2.8.
The 2.8 currently works as a service out of the box. I don't see the
actual difference. Anybody tell me. I'm scared.

Also: I'd like to know if this solution for 2.7 is acceptible or not. It
works for me but I'm everything but a windows guru.

Cheers,
Christian

PS: See
http://cvs.zope.org/Zope/skel/bin/Attic/zopeservice.py.in.diff?r1=1.1.2.8r2=1.1.2.9only_with_tag=Zope-2_7-branch
 
for the change.

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Re: [Zope-dev] Why third_party/docutils?

2004-12-16 Thread Christian Theune
Just for a note: This just made me spend more than two very annoying
hours debugging and fixing the zopeservice.py. Those changes are not
meant to be done on a stable branch ... 

Am Montag, den 29.11.2004, 12:43 +0100 schrieb Stefan H. Holek:
 [docutils was moved from lib/python/docutils to 
 lib/python/third_party/docutils/docutils and an ugly sys.path hack 
 employed]
 
 Why oh why do we always have to make it harder to start up Zope 
 (instead of making it simpler, for once)?

*Going for beer to save my sanity*

Theuni

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Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Service on Windows

2004-12-16 Thread Tim Peters
[Christian Theune]
 I just checked in how I finally got Zope 2.7.x to run as a service on
 Windows again. Setting the PYTHONPATH environment actually
 even makes more sense here as the CreateProcess API call won't
 take the sys.path into the new python, but the environment
 variables.

It doesn't sound like a good solution.  PYTHONPATH is Python's envar,
not Zope's, and a user can legitimately set PYTHONPATH to whatever
they like (for example, to get other extensions they've installed
found by whichever Python is running).  Then their stuff won't work if
we clobber their PYTHONPATH.

 This now also plays with the import of sitecustomize.py correctly.

 I still wonder why this seems to behave differently in 2.7 as in 2.8.
 The 2.8 currently works as a service out of the box. I don't see the
 actual difference. Anybody tell me. I'm scared.

I don't know -- I've lost track of how Zope 2 gets built on Windows. 
All along on Windows, Products/WinBuilders/etc/ has tried to install
its own sitecustomize.py on Windows, to force the software home into
sys.path whenever Zope's Python is used.  I don't have any idea how
that plays with the other sitecustomize.py newly added to Zope 2
proper.  Best guess is that they conflict horribly wink, but that
nobody has noticed that yet.

 Also: I'd like to know if this solution for 2.7 is acceptible or not. It
 works for me but I'm everything but a windows guru.

As above, I doubt it's the right solution.  But if nobody on Windows
complains, maybe you're stuck with it.  It would be good to know if
you're aware of WinBuilders and Zope fighting over sitecustomize.py
now.  Who wins?  If Zope's sitecustomize.py is overwriting the
sitecustomize.py WinBuilders tries to install, that would explain why
Windows services stopped working.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Why third_party/docutils?

2004-12-16 Thread Andreas Jung

--On Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2004 19:28 Uhr +0100 Christian Theune 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Just for a note: This just made me spend more than two very annoying
hours debugging and fixing the zopeservice.py. Those changes are not
meant to be done on a stable branch ...
I disagree because maintaining Docutils in the state as they were in former 
version
was a real pain. Cleaning up the mess was therefore a valid option and 
since this change
happened during two final releases things (zopeservice) were only broken in 
beta 1 and 2
(that's why we have betas *wink*). Also no one came up so far with a better 
solution so I regard
the reorganization as a suitable solution. But I am of course further 
improvements are very welcome :-)
Any volunteers? .-)

Andreas
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Re: [Zope-dev] Why third_party/docutils?

2004-12-16 Thread Stefan H. Holek
*sound of me protesting noisily*
Let me remind you of the Pope's decree:
http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2004-November/024073.html
Stefan
On 16. Dez 2004, at 20:14, Andreas Jung wrote:

--On Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2004 19:28 Uhr +0100 Christian Theune 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Just for a note: This just made me spend more than two very annoying
hours debugging and fixing the zopeservice.py. Those changes are not
meant to be done on a stable branch ...
I disagree because maintaining Docutils in the state as they were in 
former version
was a real pain. Cleaning up the mess was therefore a valid option and 
since this change
happened during two final releases things (zopeservice) were only 
broken in beta 1 and 2
(that's why we have betas *wink*). Also no one came up so far with a 
better solution so I regard
the reorganization as a suitable solution. But I am of course further 
improvements are very welcome :-)
Any volunteers? .-)

Andreas
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dressed as we are supposed to think he is.   /Pete McBreen/
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Re: [Zope-dev] Re: SOAP Support for ZOPE

2004-12-16 Thread John Ziniti
Brian Lloyd wrote:
  - It is a pain to do anything with SOAP because the
publisher has a hard-coded idea that anything xml must
be xml-rpc
This would be minimally disruptive to the Zope core, while enabling
people interested in SOAP to evolve different solutions without
everybody having to buy into a particular approach or implementation
right now.
+1
I think these ideas are great, but wasn't it also you who said,
Unfortunately, though, this misfeature has  been around for a long time
and would break a lot of people if the default were changed.  I think
getting this changed might be met with some amount of resistance.  If
we're voting ;-) I vote for biting the bullet and making the change
today.
John Ziniti
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Re: [Zope-dev] Why third_party/docutils?

2004-12-16 Thread Andreas Jung

--On Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2004 20:30 Uhr +0100 Stefan H. Holek 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

*sound of me protesting noisily*
Let me remind you of the Pope's decree:
http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2004-November/024073.html
I have not seen a proposal so far how to solve this issue that works with a 
complete
Docutils package and without sitecustomize.py and I don't know about a 
better solution.
Having Docutils in sane state from the maintenance prospective is much more 
important for me
than leaving it as it was.

Andreas
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Re: [Zope-dev] Is Zope.2.7.4 feature frozen ?

2004-12-16 Thread Jim Fulton
Rodrigo Dias Arruda Senra wrote:
Hi,
is the  Zope 2.7.4 feature frozen ?
Huh?  Zope 2.7 is feature frozen.  New features need to
go into 2.8.
Jim
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Re: [Zope-dev] Why third_party/docutils?

2004-12-16 Thread Jim Fulton
Andreas Jung wrote:

--On Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2004 20:30 Uhr +0100 Stefan H. Holek 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

*sound of me protesting noisily*
Let me remind you of the Pope's decree:
http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2004-November/024073.html
I have not seen a proposal so far how to solve this issue that works 
with a complete
Docutils package and without sitecustomize.py and I don't know about a 
better solution.
Having Docutils in sane state from the maintenance prospective is much 
more important for me
than leaving it as it was.
As I said in one of my responses to this thread, I see no problem that
this extra directory solves.  Could you please explain what problem
you think an extra directory will solve?
Jim
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Re: [Zope-dev] Why third_party/docutils?

2004-12-16 Thread Jim Fulton
Andreas Jung wrote:

--On Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2004 15:34 Uhr -0500 Jim Fulton 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Andreas Jung wrote:

--On Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2004 20:30 Uhr +0100 Stefan H. Holek
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
*sound of me protesting noisily*
Let me remind you of the Pope's decree:
http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2004-November/024073.html
I have not seen a proposal so far how to solve this issue that works
with a complete
Docutils package and without sitecustomize.py and I don't know about a
better solution.
Having Docutils in sane state from the maintenance prospective is much
more important for me
than leaving it as it was.

As I said in one of my responses to this thread, I see no problem that
this extra directory solves.  Could you please explain what problem
you think an extra directory will solve?
Stefan complained about the sitecustomize.py file and the additional
paths injected inside the file. Moving docutils as a whole to lib/python
would not solve the problem with similar adjustments to sys.path.
AFAICT, the problem is that you made a change that requires lots of scripts
to be modified and become slightly more complicated. This is not a huge deal
if there's a good reason for it, but I can't figure out what that reason
could be. See below.
So 
sitecustomize.py
is the issue and not the location.
Why is docutils in third_party?
Stefan asked this before. You answered:
  It has been moved there because older Zope versions shipped with a stripped
   down and hacked docutils version which fit into the path magic. But this
   version was hard to maintain and it was a pain in the a** to update the
   package from time to time. That's why it moved as a whole into a different
   location.
This answer doesn't make any sense to me.  What does changing the docutils 
version
have to do with it's location. Zope 3 has docutils in lib/python, why can't 
Zope 2?
Jim
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RE: [Zope-dev] Re: SOAP Support for ZOPE

2004-12-16 Thread Aruna Kathiria
Hi Brian:

I discussed with Michel Pelletier and he will help to produce a patch
that exactly implements your proposal that we'll send to you for your
review. Then we'll just provide an outside Product that calls the
registration function.

Thanks a lot for your suggestions...

Aruna Kathiriya

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:14 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Zope-dev] Re: SOAP Support for ZOPE

Hi all - having had to implement a monkey patch product before to enable
SOAP, I'd like to make a few observations and a suggestion:

  - It is a pain to do anything with SOAP because the
publisher has a hard-coded idea that anything xml must
be xml-rpc

  - There is currently no easy way around this w/o monkey
patching, which then leaves you vulnerable to future
changes to the publisher

  - Opinions on the state of SOAP support in the Python world
are far from unanimous - I think it would be premature to
put a particular implementation into Zope proper

  - That said, Zope should make it possible for Cignex and
others to provide SOAP support as add-on products without
unreasonable contortions

So the suggestion: I think we'd be in a better place if we:

  - Fix the publisher to at least recognize a SOAP request vs.
an xml-rpc request

  - Provide some kind of 'registration hook' so that a Product
can register with the publisher to handle SOAP requests

  - Have the publisher hand off where appropriate to a registered
SOAP handler if installed, else return an HTTP NotImplemented
or similar if there is no SOAP handler

  - Apply the KISS rule: only one product can register to the be
the SOAP handler, and resist turning this into any kind of
grand-unified-pluggable-publisher architecture ;)

This would be minimally disruptive to the Zope core, while enabling
people interested in SOAP to evolve different solutions without
everybody having to buy into a particular approach or implementation
right now.


Brian Lloyd[EMAIL PROTECTED]
V.P. Engineering   540.361.1716
Zope Corporation   http://www.zope.com


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Behalf Of Tres Seaver
 Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:22 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [Zope-dev] Re: SOAP Support for ZOPE


 Florent Guillaume wrote:
  Richard wrote:
 
 On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 06:54 am, Aruna Kathiria wrote:
 
 I did some work regarding SOAP support on ZOPE and published this 
 document on zope.org.
 
 Is there really no interest in getting SOAP support into the Zope 
 core? I've got a guy working on some Microsoft Word stuff at the 
 moment, and he was dumbfounded when he discovered that Zope doesn't 
 support SOAP. In his words, everyone supports SOAP. Sigh :)
 
 
  There is probably interest, but it needs motivated people like Aruna

  and you to push it.
 
 
 Are there any objections to getting Aruna's patches into the 2.8 
 codebase? I'd be willing to do the work - but note I know 
 practically nothing about SOAP - I just want to be able to use it.
 
 
  One problem is that Aruna's approach introduces dependencies to 
  external
  modules: fpconst, and a patched SOAPy. If these can be resolved, why

  not.

 Because of those dependencies, I think support in the core is not 
 feasible.  However, I believe that it should be possible to create a 
 product which solves those issues.  This product would either need to 
 monkey-patch the publisher (as outlined by John Zinit earlier in the
 thread) or else register a new kind of server, which could be 
 configured (like the WebDAV source server) to listen on its own port.

 For an example of such a Product, see ZServerSSL, 
 http://sandbox.rulemaker.net/ngps/zope/zssl/

 Tres.
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Re: [Zope-dev] Why third_party/docutils?

2004-12-16 Thread Andreas Jung

--On Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2004 16:01 Uhr -0500 Jim Fulton 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Andreas Jung wrote:

--On Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2004 15:34 Uhr -0500 Jim Fulton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Andreas Jung wrote:

--On Donnerstag, 16. Dezember 2004 20:30 Uhr +0100 Stefan H. Holek
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
*sound of me protesting noisily*
Let me remind you of the Pope's decree:
http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2004-November/024073.html
I have not seen a proposal so far how to solve this issue that works
with a complete
Docutils package and without sitecustomize.py and I don't know about a
better solution.
Having Docutils in sane state from the maintenance prospective is much
more important for me
than leaving it as it was.

As I said in one of my responses to this thread, I see no problem that
this extra directory solves.  Could you please explain what problem
you think an extra directory will solve?
Stefan complained about the sitecustomize.py file and the additional
paths injected inside the file. Moving docutils as a whole to lib/python
would not solve the problem with similar adjustments to sys.path.
AFAICT, the problem is that you made a change that requires lots of
scripts
to be modified and become slightly more complicated. This is not a huge
deal
if there's a good reason for it, but I can't figure out what that reason
could be. See below.
You're still not getting the point. Z2 shipped and Z3 ships with a 
*stripped*
down version of Docutils where only the docutils subfolder is used. Now
the *whole* package is included which makes it necessary to adjust the 
paths.
Moving this as a whole to lib/python does *not* solve the need to adjust the
path using sitecustomize.py or by adding paths to runzopefriends.

Docutils should be kept *somewhere* as a *whole* which makes updating much 
easier.
Moving the package to lib/python does *not* solve Stefans problem which is 
maybe
only a problem on Stefan's side (I don't know).

I would appreciate it if people in the community could come up with 
reasonable
proposals and ideas how to solve problems instead of fighting against 
solutions being
made. Especially the Z2 community is currently in a state where there is 
much talking
and crying of people about Z2 issues that sux or must be resolved but there 
is really only
a small, small of people really doing something substantial work.

So looking back at this issue: the solution is working except for Stefan 
and if there is a problem
anyone should suggest a reasonable problem or just fix the original problem 
(maintainability
of Docutils) in a better way than I did. Otherwise we should keep it as it 
is or revert to
an older version that has not the problems. But in this case I won't care 
about Docutils
in future versions.

Andreas

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Re: [Zope-dev] Why third_party/docutils?

2004-12-16 Thread Dieter Maurer
Andreas Jung wrote at 2004-12-16 20:47 +0100:
 *sound of me protesting noisily*

 Let me remind you of the Pope's decree:
 http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2004-November/024073.html


I have not seen a proposal so far how to solve this issue that works with a 
complete
Docutils package and without sitecustomize.py and I don't know about a 
better solution.

What problems are solved by (mere) moving DocUtils into
a third_party package that stay when it is one level up?

Providing Zope's own sitecustomize.py interferes with
site customizations usually maintained in the site's sitecustomize.py.

At least, this needs prominent warning notes:

   Zope now shadows any sitecustomize.py that may be in
   effect in your Python installation.
   Move any relevant definitions to Zope's sitecustomize.py.


A *.pth file might be an alternative to a sitecustomize.py
(although *.pth has issues, too).


-- 
Dieter
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Re: [Zope-dev] Is Zope.2.7.4 feature frozen ?

2004-12-16 Thread Paul Winkler
On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 11:16:22AM -0300, Rodrigo Dias Arruda Senra wrote:
 Hi,
 
 is the  Zope 2.7.4 feature frozen ?
 
 If not, I believe that the patch :
http://zope.org/Collectors/Zope/1584
It adds the directive 'extensions' to zope.conf.
If overriden, then the specified directory will be used for 
 ExternalMethods,
instead of the default $INSTANCE/Extensions.

Nice idea. How hard would it be to make it support 
multiple Extensions directories, just like we can have
multiple Products directories?
 
-- 

Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
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