Re: [sig-policy] prop-118-v001: No need policy in APNIC region

Sat, 25 Feb 2017 18:57:37 -0800 

Hi Ernest,
Our records show that your transfer case was resolved to your satisfaction. If there is anything else we can do for you, please do get in touch with me. 


Kind regards,

George Kuo
APNIC


On 25/2/17 12:32 pm, Pacswitch Email wrote:

Dear all,

I can tell you my real experience with APNIC, when I want to transfer my
unused IP ranges to a Singapore based ISP from my account, they deny
it!! That is ridiculous! They said I cannot transfer! I cannot believe
it if the IP address I owned but I cannot transfer it to a new owner.

Can anyone tell me who has the same experience?

Ernest Tse

Sent from Mobile

David Hilario <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> 於 2017年2月25日 12:24 寫道：



Hi,

The justification for the needs was/is great to have in place to
protect a free pool of scarce resources.

Maintaining a correct registry, with the proper information is one of
the core responsibilities of the RIRs, and as a community we must
develop policies that allows the RIR to do that job in the most easy
and convenient manner, no need would enable that for APNIIC, their
time can then be spent on other things.

Unused resources, ideally should be returned to the free pool, but
that almost never happen voluntarily, they will instead be
transferred, or even simply assigned or sub-allocated, no real big
difference here, just different values in the Database and different
real world contracts, some Database editing you can do yourself,
others you need to ask your RIR for assistance.

Resources that get transferred are not issued by the RIR from their
free pool, they are already out there, I do not see any positive
impact if APNIC rejects a transfer because the recipient cannot
justify the whole prefix to be transferred.

It will not increase the free pool available at APNIC.
It may as well cancel the whole transfer.
If initially rejected and further information is needed, it delays
what is a very sensitive process, where both the offering and
receiving party wants the whole process rounded up as fast as possible.

RIPE region has had the "no need policy" in place for years, I don't
believe any sign of massive hoarding for speculative purpose is
visible over there (Multiple membership process gets abused, but that
is another issue altogether).
Large transfers were made, and you do not need to have access to any
stats to know those organisations needed that space, justifying large
allocations can be extremely time consuming and ultimately detrimental
to the overall LIR's business.


David Hilario

/IP Manager/

*Larus Cloud Service Limited*

p: +852 29888918 <tel:+852%202988%208918>  m: +359 89 764 1784
<tel:+359%2089%20764%201784>
f:+852 29888068 <tel:+852%202988%208068>
a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
w:laruscloudservice.net/uk <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk>
e: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>


On 25 February 2017 at 02:03, Owen DeLong <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

    I disagree…

    I believe that needs testing still preserves the idea of
    distributing addresses to those with need even in a
    post-exhaustion world.

    This serves to discourage speculative transactions and other
    transfers to those not actually needing addresses which would only
    drive prices up and not provide any benefit to the community.

    Owen


    On Feb 24, 2017, at 08:32 , Pacswitch Email
    <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

    Hello all,

    I agreed that APNIC should accept all transfer without question
    because IP resource could be count into a assets to the IP holder
    in accounting. That's mean the ip holder have the right to
    request transfer to or from other APNIC members or other RIR.

    Ernest Tse

    Sent from Mobile

    David Hilario <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>> 於 2017年2月24日 22:04
    寫道：




    Hi Aftab,

    This is only to simplify things, need based policies are there
    to protect the free pool from exhaustion and ensure fair
    distribution.

    Space that is already out there can already be transferred
    without much hassle, removing the need base justification just
    simplifies the whole process, making the transfer faster and
    smoother.


    David Hilario

    /IP Manager/

    *Larus Cloud Service Limited*

    p: +852 29888918 <tel:+852%202988%208918>  m: +359 89 764 1784
    <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784>
    f:+852 29888068 <tel:+852%202988%208068>
    a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
    w:laruscloudservice.net/uk <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk>
    e: [email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>


    On 22 February 2017 at 10:04, Aftab Siddiqui
    <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

        Thanks Guangliang for the update.

        Hi David, what are we trying to fix?

        On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 at 14:13 Guangliang Pan <[email protected]
        <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

            Hi Aftab,____

            __ __

            We don't have a case that rejected because the recipient
            could not demonstrate need. However, during the
            evaluation process, APNIC Hostmasters often ask for more
            support documents before approve large transfers. ____

            __ __

            Kind regards,____

            __ __

            Guangliang____

            ========== ____

            __ __

            __ __

            __ __

            __ __

            __ __

            *From:*Aftab Siddiqui [mailto:[email protected]
            <mailto:[email protected]>]
            *Sent:* Wednesday, 22 February 2017 12:23 AM
            *To:* David Hilario; Guangliang Pan
            *Cc:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>


            *Subject:* Re: [sig-policy] prop-118-v001: No need
            policy in APNIC region____

            __ __

            Hi Guangliang,____

            Do you have any stats on rejection rate due to weak
            requirement justifications? ____

            __ __

            On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 at 18:34 David Hilario
            <[email protected]
            <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____

                Dear Benny,____

                __ __

                Thank you for asking for clarifications. ____

                __ __

                This proposal is for any transfer, within in or out
                of region.____

                __ __

                The need based part is only needed to match any
                registry requiring a need based justification, this
                can be another RIR or even an NIR.____

                __ __


                ____

                David Hilario____

                /IP Manager/____

                *Larus Cloud Service Limited*____

                p: +852 29888918 <tel:+852%202988%208918>  m: +359
                89 764 1784 <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784>
                f:+852 29888068 <tel:+852%202988%208068>
                a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road,
                Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
                w:laruscloudservice.net/uk
                <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk>
                e: [email protected]
                <mailto:[email protected]>____

                __ __

                On 21 February 2017 at 05:38, Guangliang Pan
                <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____

                Dear David,____

                    ____

                From implementation point of view, I would like to
                double check if the following proposal will also
                apply to transfers within the APNIC region.____

                    ____

                    - APNIC shall accept all transfers of Internet
                number resources to its____

                       service region, provided that they comply
                with the policies relating____

                       to transfers within its service region.____

                    ____

                Best regards,____

                 ____

                Guangliang Pan (Benny)____

                Registration Services Manager, APNIC____

                Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>____

                SIP: [email protected]
                <mailto:[email protected]>____

                Phone: +61 7 3858 3188 <tel:+61%207%203858%203188>____

                http://www.apnic.net <http://www.apnic.net/>____

                
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------____

                * You can now call APNIC Helpdesk for free using
                Skype. For more information____

                visit: www.apnic.net/helpdesk
                <http://www.apnic.net/helpdesk>____

                 ____

                 ____

                 ____

                 ____

                *From:*[email protected]
                <mailto:[email protected]>
                [mailto:[email protected]
                <mailto:[email protected]>] *On
                Behalf Of *David Hilario
                *Sent:* Friday, 17 February 2017 12:17 AM
                *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
                *Subject:* Re: [sig-policy] prop-118-v001: No need
                policy in APNIC region____

                 ____

                 ____

                Dear list,____

                 ____

                We are only a few days away from the meeting in
                Saigon.____

                There has been no opposition to the policy, but only
                very little support as well.____

                 ____

                As the proposer of this policy I would like to know
                if there is interest in streamlining the policy a
                bit in order to make transfers between two regions
                more compatible, it is really more of a small patch
                the way I see it.____

                 ____

                Any opposition to it is very much welcome too, only
                the "positive" sides were really investigated and I
                would gladly hear any opposition to it as well as
                any support.____

                 ____

                David Hilario____

                /IP Manager/____

                *Larus Cloud Service Limited*____

                p: +852 29888918 <tel:+852%202988%208918>  m: +359
                89 764 1784 <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784>
                f:+852 29888068 <tel:+852%202988%208068>
                a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road,
                Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
                w:laruscloudservice.net/uk
                <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk>
                e: [email protected]
                <mailto:[email protected]>____

                __ __

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            -- ____

            Best Wishes,____

            __ __

            Aftab A. Siddiqui____

        --
        Best Wishes,

        Aftab A. Siddiqui


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