Hi George, Thanks for quick response and clarification. Again, still not sure what problem we are trying to solve? Haven't seen a single use case.
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 at 10:02 George <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Aftab, > > We are happy to share more information if we have the permission from > the account holder. Otherwise, it is not possible for the APNIC > Secretariat to disclose individual account and request information on > the public mailing list. > > > George Kuo > APNIC > > On 25/2/17 10:04 pm, Aftab Siddiqui wrote: > > Interesting. > > > > I hope secretariat/hostmaster can comment. > > > > On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 at 12:32 Pacswitch Email <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > I can tell you my real experience with APNIC, when I want to > > transfer my unused IP ranges to a Singapore based ISP from my > > account, they deny it!! That is ridiculous! They said I cannot > > transfer! I cannot believe it if the IP address I owned but I cannot > > transfer it to a new owner. > > > > Can anyone tell me who has the same experience? > > > > Ernest Tse > > > > Sent from Mobile > > > > David Hilario <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> 於 2017年2月25日 12:24 寫道： > > > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> The justification for the needs was/is great to have in place to > >> protect a free pool of scarce resources. > >> > >> Maintaining a correct registry, with the proper information is one > >> of the core responsibilities of the RIRs, and as a community we > >> must develop policies that allows the RIR to do that job in the > >> most easy and convenient manner, no need would enable that for > >> APNIIC, their time can then be spent on other things. > >> > >> Unused resources, ideally should be returned to the free pool, but > >> that almost never happen voluntarily, they will instead be > >> transferred, or even simply assigned or sub-allocated, no real big > >> difference here, just different values in the Database and > >> different real world contracts, some Database editing you can do > >> yourself, others you need to ask your RIR for assistance. > >> > >> Resources that get transferred are not issued by the RIR from > >> their free pool, they are already out there, I do not see any > >> positive impact if APNIC rejects a transfer because the recipient > >> cannot justify the whole prefix to be transferred. > >> > >> It will not increase the free pool available at APNIC. > >> It may as well cancel the whole transfer. > >> If initially rejected and further information is needed, it delays > >> what is a very sensitive process, where both the offering and > >> receiving party wants the whole process rounded up as fast as > >> possible. > >> > >> RIPE region has had the "no need policy" in place for years, I > >> don't believe any sign of massive hoarding for speculative purpose > >> is visible over there (Multiple membership process gets abused, > >> but that is another issue altogether). > >> Large transfers were made, and you do not need to have access to > >> any stats to know those organisations needed that space, > >> justifying large allocations can be extremely time consuming and > >> ultimately detrimental to the overall LIR's business. > >> > >> > >> David Hilario > >> > >> /IP Manager/ > >> > >> *Larus Cloud Service Limited* > >> > >> p: +852 29888918 <+852%202988%208918> <tel:+852%202988%208918> m: +359 > 89 764 1784 <+359%2089%20764%201784> > >> <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784> > >> f:+852 29888068 <+852%202988%208068> <tel:+852%202988%208068> > >> a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR > >> w:laruscloudservice.net/uk <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk> > >> e: [email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]> > >> > >> > >> On 25 February 2017 at 02:03, Owen DeLong <[email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> > >> I disagree… > >> > >> I believe that needs testing still preserves the idea of > >> distributing addresses to those with need even in a > >> post-exhaustion world. > >> > >> This serves to discourage speculative transactions and other > >> transfers to those not actually needing addresses which would > >> only drive prices up and not provide any benefit to the > community. > >> > >> Owen > >> > >>> On Feb 24, 2017, at 08:32 , Pacswitch Email > >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello all, > >>> > >>> I agreed that APNIC should accept all transfer without > >>> question because IP resource could be count into a assets to > >>> the IP holder in accounting. That's mean the ip holder have > >>> the right to request transfer to or from other APNIC members > >>> or other RIR. > >>> > >>> Ernest Tse > >>> > >>> Sent from Mobile > >>> > >>> David Hilario <[email protected] > >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> 於 2017年2月24日 > >>> 22:04 寫道： > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hi Aftab, > >>>> > >>>> This is only to simplify things, need based policies are > >>>> there to protect the free pool from exhaustion and ensure > >>>> fair distribution. > >>>> > >>>> Space that is already out there can already be transferred > >>>> without much hassle, removing the need base justification > >>>> just simplifies the whole process, making the transfer > >>>> faster and smoother. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> David Hilario > >>>> > >>>> /IP Manager/ > >>>> > >>>> *Larus Cloud Service Limited* > >>>> > >>>> p: +852 29888918 <+852%202988%208918> > <tel:+852%202988%208918> m: +359 89 764 > >>>> 1784 <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784> > >>>> f:+852 29888068 <+852%202988%208068> <tel:+852%202988%208068> > >>>> a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, > >>>> HKSAR > >>>> w:laruscloudservice.net/uk <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk> > >>>> e: [email protected] > >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 22 February 2017 at 10:04, Aftab Siddiqui > >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Thanks Guangliang for the update. > >>>> > >>>> Hi David, what are we trying to fix? > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 at 14:13 Guangliang Pan > >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Aftab,____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> We don't have a case that rejected because the > >>>> recipient could not demonstrate need. However, > >>>> during the evaluation process, APNIC Hostmasters > >>>> often ask for more support documents before approve > >>>> large transfers. ____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> Kind regards,____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> Guangliang____ > >>>> > >>>> ========== ____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> *From:*Aftab Siddiqui > >>>> [mailto:[email protected] > >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>] > >>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 22 February 2017 12:23 AM > >>>> *To:* David Hilario; Guangliang Pan > >>>> *Cc:* [email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [sig-policy] prop-118-v001: No need > >>>> policy in APNIC region____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> Hi Guangliang,____ > >>>> > >>>> Do you have any stats on rejection rate due to weak > >>>> requirement justifications? ____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 at 18:34 David Hilario > >>>> <[email protected] > >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____ > >>>> > >>>> Dear Benny,____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> Thank you for asking for clarifications. ____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> This proposal is for any transfer, within in or > >>>> out of region.____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> The need based part is only needed to match any > >>>> registry requiring a need based justification, > >>>> this can be another RIR or even an NIR.____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> David Hilario____ > >>>> > >>>> /IP Manager/____ > >>>> > >>>> *Larus Cloud Service Limited*____ > >>>> > >>>> p: +852 29888918 <+852%202988%208918> > >>>> <tel:+852%202988%208918> m: +359 89 764 1784 > <+359%2089%20764%201784> > >>>> <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784> > >>>> f:+852 29888068 <+852%202988%208068> > <tel:+852%202988%208068> > >>>> a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, > >>>> Tsuen Wan, HKSAR > >>>> w:laruscloudservice.net/uk > >>>> <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk> > >>>> e: [email protected] > >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> On 21 February 2017 at 05:38, Guangliang Pan > >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > wrote:____ > >>>> > >>>> Dear David,____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> From implementation point of view, I would like > >>>> to double check if the following proposal will > >>>> also apply to transfers within the APNIC > region.____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> - APNIC shall accept all transfers of > >>>> Internet number resources to its____ > >>>> > >>>> service region, provided that they comply > >>>> with the policies relating____ > >>>> > >>>> to transfers within its service region.____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> Best regards,____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> Guangliang Pan (Benny)____ > >>>> > >>>> Registration Services Manager, APNIC____ > >>>> > >>>> Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>____ > >>>> > >>>> SIP: [email protected] > >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>____ > >>>> > >>>> Phone: +61 7 3858 3188 <(07)%203858%203188> > >>>> <tel:+61%207%203858%203188>____ > >>>> > >>>> http://www.apnic.net <http://www.apnic.net/>____ > >>>> > >>>> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------____ > >>>> > >>>> * You can now call APNIC Helpdesk for free using > >>>> Skype. For more information____ > >>>> > >>>> visit: www.apnic.net/helpdesk > >>>> <http://www.apnic.net/helpdesk>____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> *From:*[email protected] > >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>> [mailto:[email protected] > >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>] *On > >>>> Behalf Of *David Hilario > >>>> *Sent:* Friday, 17 February 2017 12:17 AM > >>>> *To:* [email protected] > >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [sig-policy] prop-118-v001: No > >>>> need policy in APNIC region____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> Dear list,____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> We are only a few days away from the meeting in > >>>> Saigon.____ > >>>> > >>>> There has been no opposition to the policy, but > >>>> only very little support as well.____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> As the proposer of this policy I would like to > >>>> know if there is interest in streamlining the > >>>> policy a bit in order to make transfers between > >>>> two regions more compatible, it is really more > >>>> of a small patch the way I see it.____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> Any opposition to it is very much welcome too, > >>>> only the "positive" sides were really > >>>> investigated and I would gladly hear any > >>>> opposition to it as well as any support.____ > >>>> > >>>> ____ > >>>> > >>>> David Hilario____ > >>>> > >>>> /IP Manager/____ > >>>> > >>>> *Larus Cloud Service Limited*____ > >>>> > >>>> p: +852 29888918 <+852%202988%208918> > >>>> <tel:+852%202988%208918> m: +359 89 764 1784 > <+359%2089%20764%201784> > >>>> <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784> > >>>> f:+852 29888068 <+852%202988%208068> > <tel:+852%202988%208068> > >>>> a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, > >>>> Tsuen Wan, HKSAR > >>>> w:laruscloudservice.net/uk > >>>> <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk> > >>>> e: [email protected] > >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on > >>>> resource management policy * > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> sig-policy mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>> > https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy____ > >>>> > >>>> -- ____ > >>>> > >>>> Best Wishes,____ > >>>> > >>>> __ __ > >>>> > >>>> Aftab A. Siddiqui____ > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Best Wishes, > >>>> > >>>> Aftab A. Siddiqui > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management > >>>> policy * > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> sig-policy mailing list > >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected] > > > >>>> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy > >>> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management > >>> policy * > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> sig-policy mailing list > >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >>> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy > >> > >> > > * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy > > * > > _______________________________________________ > > sig-policy mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy > > > > -- > > Best Wishes, > > > > Aftab A. Siddiqui > > > > > > * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy > * > > _______________________________________________ > > sig-policy mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy > > > -- Best Wishes, Aftab A. Siddiqui
* sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy * _______________________________________________ sig-policy mailing list [email protected] https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
