Re: [sig-policy] prop-118-v001: No need policy in APNIC region

Sat, 25 Feb 2017 19:03:07 -0800 


Hi Aftab,
We are happy to share more information if we have the permission from the account holder. Otherwise, it is not possible for the APNIC Secretariat to disclose individual account and request information on the public mailing list. 


George Kuo
APNIC

On 25/2/17 10:04 pm, Aftab Siddiqui wrote:

Interesting.

I hope secretariat/hostmaster can comment.

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 at 12:32 Pacswitch Email <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

    Dear all,

    I can tell you my real experience with APNIC, when I want to
    transfer my unused IP ranges to a Singapore based ISP from my
    account, they deny it!! That is ridiculous! They said I cannot
    transfer! I cannot believe it if the IP address I owned but I cannot
    transfer it to a new owner.

    Can anyone tell me who has the same experience?

    Ernest Tse

    Sent from Mobile

    David Hilario <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>> 於 2017年2月25日 12:24 寫道：



    Hi,

    The justification for the needs was/is great to have in place to
    protect a free pool of scarce resources.

    Maintaining a correct registry, with the proper information is one
    of the core responsibilities of the RIRs, and as a community we
    must develop policies that allows the RIR to do that job in the
    most easy and convenient manner, no need would enable that for
    APNIIC, their time can then be spent on other things.

    Unused resources, ideally should be returned to the free pool, but
    that almost never happen voluntarily, they will instead be
    transferred, or even simply assigned or sub-allocated, no real big
    difference here, just different values in the Database and
    different real world contracts, some Database editing you can do
    yourself, others you need to ask your RIR for assistance.

    Resources that get transferred are not issued by the RIR from
    their free pool, they are already out there, I do not see any
    positive impact if APNIC rejects a transfer because the recipient
    cannot justify the whole prefix to be transferred.

    It will not increase the free pool available at APNIC.
    It may as well cancel the whole transfer.
    If initially rejected and further information is needed, it delays
    what is a very sensitive process, where both the offering and
    receiving party wants the whole process rounded up as fast as
    possible.

    RIPE region has had the "no need policy" in place for years, I
    don't believe any sign of massive hoarding for speculative purpose
    is visible over there (Multiple membership process gets abused,
    but that is another issue altogether).
    Large transfers were made, and you do not need to have access to
    any stats to know those organisations needed that space,
    justifying large allocations can be extremely time consuming and
    ultimately detrimental to the overall LIR's business.


    David Hilario

    /IP Manager/

    *Larus Cloud Service Limited*

    p: +852 29888918 <tel:+852%202988%208918>  m: +359 89 764 1784
    <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784>
    f:+852 29888068 <tel:+852%202988%208068>
    a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
    w:laruscloudservice.net/uk <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk>
    e: [email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>


    On 25 February 2017 at 02:03, Owen DeLong <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

        I disagree…

        I believe that needs testing still preserves the idea of
        distributing addresses to those with need even in a
        post-exhaustion world.

        This serves to discourage speculative transactions and other
        transfers to those not actually needing addresses which would
        only drive prices up and not provide any benefit to the community.

        Owen


        On Feb 24, 2017, at 08:32 , Pacswitch Email
        <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
        wrote:

        Hello all,

        I agreed that APNIC should accept all transfer without
        question because IP resource could be count into a assets to
        the IP holder in accounting. That's mean the ip holder have
        the right to request transfer to or from other APNIC members
        or other RIR.

        Ernest Tse

        Sent from Mobile

        David Hilario <[email protected]
        <mailto:[email protected]>> 於 2017年2月24日
        22:04 寫道：




        Hi Aftab,

        This is only to simplify things, need based policies are
        there to protect the free pool from exhaustion and ensure
        fair distribution.

        Space that is already out there can already be transferred
        without much hassle, removing the need base justification
        just simplifies the whole process, making the transfer
        faster and smoother.


        David Hilario

        /IP Manager/

        *Larus Cloud Service Limited*

        p: +852 29888918 <tel:+852%202988%208918>  m: +359 89 764
        1784 <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784>
        f:+852 29888068 <tel:+852%202988%208068>
        a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan,
        HKSAR
        w:laruscloudservice.net/uk <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk>
        e: [email protected]
        <mailto:[email protected]>


        On 22 February 2017 at 10:04, Aftab Siddiqui
        <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
        wrote:

            Thanks Guangliang for the update.

            Hi David, what are we trying to fix?

            On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 at 14:13 Guangliang Pan
            <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

                Hi Aftab,____

                __ __

                We don't have a case that rejected because the
                recipient could not demonstrate need. However,
                during the evaluation process, APNIC Hostmasters
                often ask for more support documents before approve
                large transfers. ____

                __ __

                Kind regards,____

                __ __

                Guangliang____

                ========== ____

                __ __

                __ __

                __ __

                __ __

                __ __

                *From:*Aftab Siddiqui
                [mailto:[email protected]
                <mailto:[email protected]>]
                *Sent:* Wednesday, 22 February 2017 12:23 AM
                *To:* David Hilario; Guangliang Pan
                *Cc:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>


                *Subject:* Re: [sig-policy] prop-118-v001: No need
                policy in APNIC region____

                __ __

                Hi Guangliang,____

                Do you have any stats on rejection rate due to weak
                requirement justifications? ____

                __ __

                On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 at 18:34 David Hilario
                <[email protected]
                <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____

                    Dear Benny,____

                    __ __

                    Thank you for asking for clarifications. ____

                    __ __

                    This proposal is for any transfer, within in or
                    out of region.____

                    __ __

                    The need based part is only needed to match any
                    registry requiring a need based justification,
                    this can be another RIR or even an NIR.____

                    __ __


                    ____

                    David Hilario____

                    /IP Manager/____

                    *Larus Cloud Service Limited*____

                    p: +852 29888918
                    <tel:+852%202988%208918>  m: +359 89 764 1784
                    <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784>
                    f:+852 29888068 <tel:+852%202988%208068>
                    a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road,
                    Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
                    w:laruscloudservice.net/uk
                    <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk>
                    e: [email protected]
                    <mailto:[email protected]>____

                    __ __

                    On 21 February 2017 at 05:38, Guangliang Pan
                    <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____

                    Dear David,____

                        ____

                    From implementation point of view, I would like
                    to double check if the following proposal will
                    also apply to transfers within the APNIC region.____

                        ____

                        - APNIC shall accept all transfers of
                    Internet number resources to its____

                           service region, provided that they comply
                    with the policies relating____

                           to transfers within its service region.____

                        ____

                    Best regards,____

                     ____

                    Guangliang Pan (Benny)____

                    Registration Services Manager, APNIC____

                    Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>____

                    SIP: [email protected]
                    <mailto:[email protected]>____

                    Phone: +61 7 3858 3188
                    <tel:+61%207%203858%203188>____

                    http://www.apnic.net <http://www.apnic.net/>____

                    
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------____

                    * You can now call APNIC Helpdesk for free using
                    Skype. For more information____

                    visit: www.apnic.net/helpdesk
                    <http://www.apnic.net/helpdesk>____

                     ____

                     ____

                     ____

                     ____

                    *From:*[email protected]
                    <mailto:[email protected]>
                    [mailto:[email protected]
                    <mailto:[email protected]>] *On
                    Behalf Of *David Hilario
                    *Sent:* Friday, 17 February 2017 12:17 AM
                    *To:* [email protected]
                    <mailto:[email protected]>
                    *Subject:* Re: [sig-policy] prop-118-v001: No
                    need policy in APNIC region____

                     ____

                     ____

                    Dear list,____

                     ____

                    We are only a few days away from the meeting in
                    Saigon.____

                    There has been no opposition to the policy, but
                    only very little support as well.____

                     ____

                    As the proposer of this policy I would like to
                    know if there is interest in streamlining the
                    policy a bit in order to make transfers between
                    two regions more compatible, it is really more
                    of a small patch the way I see it.____

                     ____

                    Any opposition to it is very much welcome too,
                    only the "positive" sides were really
                    investigated and I would gladly hear any
                    opposition to it as well as any support.____

                     ____

                    David Hilario____

                    /IP Manager/____

                    *Larus Cloud Service Limited*____

                    p: +852 29888918
                    <tel:+852%202988%208918>  m: +359 89 764 1784
                    <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784>
                    f:+852 29888068 <tel:+852%202988%208068>
                    a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road,
                    Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
                    w:laruscloudservice.net/uk
                    <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk>
                    e: [email protected]
                    <mailto:[email protected]>____

                    __ __

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                -- ____

                Best Wishes,____

                __ __

                Aftab A. Siddiqui____

            --
            Best Wishes,

            Aftab A. Siddiqui


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--
Best Wishes,

Aftab A. Siddiqui


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