Hello David,
Are you going to speak at APRICOT ? I want to know more your proposal policy.
Best Regards,
Ernest TsePacswitch Globe Telecom Ltd.// Web: http://www.pacswitch.com// Tel:
+852-21570550//Mobile: +852-62536678//Skype: codesixs
On Mon, 27/02/2017 18.00, David Hilario <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Aftab,
> I am not sure that what you look for can be found, this policy proposal is
> not fixing something fundamentally broken.
> It merely looks to simplify the administrative burden placed on the receiving
> party and the APNIC secretariat while reassuring the offering party that the
> transfer will go through for the agreed size.
>
> One of the real life scenario getting "fixed" is the 2 steps transfers.When
> the recipient gets the first half of a given prefix as they only qualify for
> that right now and later the second half when they can justify it too.
>
> This leaves the recipient in a weak position, the offering party is still the
> registered holder of the other half and are policy wise free to transfer to
> anyone else or can even have their membership closed and the space returned
> to the free pool, leaving the recipient without the whole prefix they
> intended...
>
>
> David Hilario
IP Manager
Larus Cloud Service Limited
p: +852 29888918 m: +359 89 764 1784
> f: +852 29888068
> a: Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing
Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
> w: laruscloudservice.net/uk
> e: [email protected]
> On 26 February 2017 at 08:42, Aftab Siddiqui <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi George,Thanks for quick response and clarification.
> Again, still not sure what problem we are trying to solve? Haven't seen a
> single use case.
> On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 at 10:02 George <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
>
Hi Aftab,
>
>
We are happy to share more information if we have the permission from
>
the account holder. Otherwise, it is not possible for the APNIC
>
Secretariat to disclose individual account and request information on
>
the public mailing list.
>
>
>
George Kuo
>
APNIC
>
>
On 25/2/17 10:04 pm, Aftab Siddiqui wrote:
>
> Interesting.
>
>
>
> I hope secretariat/hostmaster can comment.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 at 12:32 Pacswitch Email <[email protected]
>
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> I can tell you my real experience with APNIC, when I want to
>
> transfer my unused IP ranges to a Singapore based ISP from my
>
> account, they deny it!! That is ridiculous! They said I cannot
>
> transfer! I cannot believe it if the IP address I owned but I cannot
>
> transfer it to a new owner.
>
>
>
> Can anyone tell me who has the same experience?
>
>
>
> Ernest Tse
>
>
>
> Sent from Mobile
>
>
>
> David Hilario <[email protected]
>
> <mailto:[email protected]>> 於 2017年2月25日 12:24 寫道：
>
>
>
>>
>
>> Hi,
>
>>
>
>> The justification for the needs was/is great to have in place to
>
>> protect a free pool of scarce resources.
>
>>
>
>> Maintaining a correct registry, with the proper information is one
>
>> of the core responsibilities of the RIRs, and as a community we
>
>> must develop policies that allows the RIR to do that job in the
>
>> most easy and convenient manner, no need would enable that for
>
>> APNIIC, their time can then be spent on other things.
>
>>
>
>> Unused resources, ideally should be returned to the free pool, but
>
>> that almost never happen voluntarily, they will instead be
>
>> transferred, or even simply assigned or sub-allocated, no real big
>
>> difference here, just different values in the Database and
>
>> different real world contracts, some Database editing you can do
>
>> yourself, others you need to ask your RIR for assistance.
>
>>
>
>> Resources that get transferred are not issued by the RIR from
>
>> their free pool, they are already out there, I do not see any
>
>> positive impact if APNIC rejects a transfer because the recipient
>
>> cannot justify the whole prefix to be transferred.
>
>>
>
>> It will not increase the free pool available at APNIC.
>
>> It may as well cancel the whole transfer.
>
>> If initially rejected and further information is needed, it delays
>
>> what is a very sensitive process, where both the offering and
>
>> receiving party wants the whole process rounded up as fast as
>
>> possible.
>
>>
>
>> RIPE region has had the "no need policy" in place for years, I
>
>> don't believe any sign of massive hoarding for speculative purpose
>
>> is visible over there (Multiple membership process gets abused,
>
>> but that is another issue altogether).
>
>> Large transfers were made, and you do not need to have access to
>
>> any stats to know those organisations needed that space,
>
>> justifying large allocations can be extremely time consuming and
>
>> ultimately detrimental to the overall LIR's business.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> David Hilario
>
>>
>
>> /IP Manager/
>
>>
>
>> *Larus Cloud Service Limited*
>
>>
>
>> p: +852 29888918 <tel:+852%202988%208918> m: +359 89 764 1784
>
>> <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784>
>
>> f:+852 29888068 <tel:+852%202988%208068>
>
>> a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
>
>> w:laruscloudservice.net/uk <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk>
>
>> e: [email protected]
>
>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> On 25 February 2017 at 02:03, Owen DeLong <[email protected]
>
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> I disagree…
>
>>
>
>> I believe that needs testing still preserves the idea of
>
>> distributing addresses to those with need even in a
>
>> post-exhaustion world.
>
>>
>
>> This serves to discourage speculative transactions and other
>
>> transfers to those not actually needing addresses which would
>
>> only drive prices up and not provide any benefit to the community.
>
>>
>
>> Owen
>
>>
>
>>> On Feb 24, 2017, at 08:32 , Pacswitch Email
>
>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>
>>> wrote:
>
>>>
>
>>> Hello all,
>
>>>
>
>>> I agreed that APNIC should accept all transfer without
>
>>> question because IP resource could be count into a assets to
>
>>> the IP holder in accounting. That's mean the ip holder have
>
>>> the right to request transfer to or from other APNIC members
>
>>> or other RIR.
>
>>>
>
>>> Ernest Tse
>
>>>
>
>>> Sent from Mobile
>
>>>
>
>>> David Hilario <[email protected]
>
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> 於 2017年2月24日
>
>>> 22:04 寫道：
>
>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Hi Aftab,
>
>>>>
>
>>>> This is only to simplify things, need based policies are
>
>>>> there to protect the free pool from exhaustion and ensure
>
>>>> fair distribution.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Space that is already out there can already be transferred
>
>>>> without much hassle, removing the need base justification
>
>>>> just simplifies the whole process, making the transfer
>
>>>> faster and smoother.
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> David Hilario
>
>>>>
>
>>>> /IP Manager/
>
>>>>
>
>>>> *Larus Cloud Service Limited*
>
>>>>
>
>>>> p: +852 29888918 <tel:+852%202988%208918> m: +359 89 764
>
>>>> 1784 <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784>
>
>>>> f:+852 29888068 <tel:+852%202988%208068>
>
>>>> a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan,
>
>>>> HKSAR
>
>>>> w:laruscloudservice.net/uk <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk>
>
>>>> e: [email protected]
>
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> On 22 February 2017 at 10:04, Aftab Siddiqui
>
>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>
>>>> wrote:
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Thanks Guangliang for the update.
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Hi David, what are we trying to fix?
>
>>>>
>
>>>> On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 at 14:13 Guangliang Pan
>
>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Hi Aftab,____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> We don't have a case that rejected because the
>
>>>> recipient could not demonstrate need. However,
>
>>>> during the evaluation process, APNIC Hostmasters
>
>>>> often ask for more support documents before approve
>
>>>> large transfers. ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Kind regards,____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Guangliang____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ========== ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> *From:*Aftab Siddiqui
>
>>>> [mailto:[email protected]
>
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>]
>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 22 February 2017 12:23 AM
>
>>>> *To:* David Hilario; Guangliang Pan
>
>>>> *Cc:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [sig-policy] prop-118-v001: No need
>
>>>> policy in APNIC region____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Hi Guangliang,____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Do you have any stats on rejection rate due to weak
>
>>>> requirement justifications? ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 at 18:34 David Hilario
>
>>>> <[email protected]
>
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Dear Benny,____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Thank you for asking for clarifications. ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> This proposal is for any transfer, within in or
>
>>>> out of region.____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> The need based part is only needed to match any
>
>>>> registry requiring a need based justification,
>
>>>> this can be another RIR or even an NIR.____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> David Hilario____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> /IP Manager/____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> *Larus Cloud Service Limited*____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> p: +852 29888918
>
>>>> <tel:+852%202988%208918> m: +359 89 764 1784
>
>>>> <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784>
>
>>>> f:+852 29888068 <tel:+852%202988%208068>
>
>>>> a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road,
>
>>>> Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
>
>>>> w:laruscloudservice.net/uk
>
>>>> <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk>
>
>>>> e: [email protected]
>
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> On 21 February 2017 at 05:38, Guangliang Pan
>
>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Dear David,____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> From implementation point of view, I would like
>
>>>> to double check if the following proposal will
>
>>>> also apply to transfers within the APNIC region.____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> - APNIC shall accept all transfers of
>
>>>> Internet number resources to its____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> service region, provided that they comply
>
>>>> with the policies relating____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> to transfers within its service region.____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Best regards,____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Guangliang Pan (Benny)____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Registration Services Manager, APNIC____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> SIP: [email protected]
>
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Phone: +61 7 3858 3188
>
>>>> <tel:+61%207%203858%203188>____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> http://www.apnic.net <http://www.apnic.net/>____
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> * You can now call APNIC Helpdesk for free using
>
>>>> Skype. For more information____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> visit: www.apnic.net/helpdesk
>
>>>> <http://www.apnic.net/helpdesk>____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> *From:*[email protected]
>
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>>>> [mailto:[email protected]
>
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>] *On
>
>>>> Behalf Of *David Hilario
>
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, 17 February 2017 12:17 AM
>
>>>> *To:* [email protected]
>
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [sig-policy] prop-118-v001: No
>
>>>> need policy in APNIC region____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Dear list,____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> We are only a few days away from the meeting in
>
>>>> Saigon.____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> There has been no opposition to the policy, but
>
>>>> only very little support as well.____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> As the proposer of this policy I would like to
>
>>>> know if there is interest in streamlining the
>
>>>> policy a bit in order to make transfers between
>
>>>> two regions more compatible, it is really more
>
>>>> of a small patch the way I see it.____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Any opposition to it is very much welcome too,
>
>>>> only the "positive" sides were really
>
>>>> investigated and I would gladly hear any
>
>>>> opposition to it as well as any support.____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> David Hilario____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> /IP Manager/____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> *Larus Cloud Service Limited*____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> p: +852 29888918
>
>>>> <tel:+852%202988%208918> m: +359 89 764 1784
>
>>>> <tel:+359%2089%20764%201784>
>
>>>> f:+852 29888068 <tel:+852%202988%208068>
>
>>>> a:Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road,
>
>>>> Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
>
>>>> w:laruscloudservice.net/uk
>
>>>> <http://laruscloudservice.net/uk>
>
>>>> e: [email protected]
>
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on
>
>>>> resource management policy *
>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>
>>>> sig-policy mailing list
>
>>>> [email protected]
>
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>>>>
>>>> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> -- ____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Best Wishes,____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> __ __
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Aftab A. Siddiqui____
>
>>>>
>
>>>> --
>
>>>> Best Wishes,
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Aftab A. Siddiqui
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management
>
>>>> policy *
>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>
>>>> sig-policy mailing list
>
>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>>>> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
>
>>> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management
>
>>> policy *
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>
>>> sig-policy mailing list
>
>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>
>>> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
>
>>
>
>>
>
> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy
>
> *
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> sig-policy mailing list
>
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>
> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best Wishes,
>
>
>
> Aftab A. Siddiqui
>
>
>
>
>
> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy
> *
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> sig-policy mailing list
>
> [email protected]
>
> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
>
>
>
--
Best Wishes,
Aftab A. Siddiqui
* sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy *
_______________________________________________
sig-policy mailing list
[email protected]
https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
* sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy
*
_______________________________________________
sig-policy mailing list
[email protected]
https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy* sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy *
_______________________________________________
sig-policy mailing list
[email protected]
https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
