Hearing this makes me want to take more extreme opinions around you.
On Sat, 2024-01-27 at 12:44 +1300, Charles Haynes wrote: > One other way that economics (and specifically behavioural economics) > has changed my way of looking at the world is that I'm now more > aware of my own paradoxical behaviours. Like the endowment effect and > the sunk cost fallacy. I have also found one tool to be particularly > valuable and that's the notion of "setting a betting line." Which is > a way of measuring my confidence in something. One thing I've noticed > though is that people who do this are not always completely honest > with themselves. In theory you should be willing to take "either > side" of such a bet, but when I set a line like that, I'm often > reluctant to take one side of the bet - which means I've set the line > wrong and I'm lying to myself about how likely I really think > something is. > > I'm not sure I explained that well, but in practice it works out to > me asking people "how much are you willing to bet" if they say > something I disagree with - and sometimes ending up actually making > wagers with people. If you see me say something you think is > outrageous I encourage you to ask me to put my money where my mouth > is. :) > > — Charles > > On Fri, 26 Jan 2024 at 23:01, Jeremy Bornstein <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I would definitely do this for USD $500/day. For one, I am > > convinced that it's in the realm of things that I (and most people) > > would get used to quickly enough for the unpleasant aspects to fade > > to tolerability or even pleasure. Also, I may have some minor > > masochistic tendencies... but not enough of them to do this for > > $100/day. > > > > I don't believe absolutes such as "no amount of money" for things > > like this. Imagine a million dollars, or more. Even for people who > > have sufficient access to funds for their own direct use, that > > would represent a huge amount of leverage for helping other people, > > which I think most folks would eventually decide made the agony > > worth it. > > > > Of course, this potentially opens up the thought experiment to > > other things even less universally appealing than cold showers, but > > I'm not sure that actually discussing those possibilities would be > > sufficiently edifying or amusing for us. > > > > Jeremy > > > > P.S. Apologies for the previous empty mails... it looks like my > > mail client had been in a running broken state. > > > > > > > Clearly I cannot afford this but I still want to test the > > > longevity/sustainability of this decision - that USD 500 is > > > enough. > > > > > > Can you convince yourself that you receive 500 dollars worth of > > > health, motivation and resilience benefits to withstand 180 > > > seconds of 12-15 centigrade water every. Single. Day. for a week? > > > > > > My assumption is that you’ll decide it isn’t worth it, even for > > > USD 500. > > > > > > My motivation for cold showers (6 months of pure agony, I’ll add) > > > is twofold and deeply personal -watching my father die -cancer- > > > and be miserable about being cold, and my own mental health > > > benefits enormously from it (it is the hardest thing I can do in > > > a day, everything else is a piece of cake). But no amount of > > > money would incentivise me to do this. > > > > > > Huda Masood > > > +91 9886796967 > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 26 Jan 2024 at 02:37, Charles Haynes > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I would do the shower thing for somewhere between USD$100 and > > > > USD$500 per day. ($100 is probably not enough, $500 definitely > > > > is.) > > > > > > > > One learning about money is that looking at investments daily > > > > makes me unhappy and that for me the "asymmetry of happiness" > > > > is real - that losing $100 makes me more unhappy than winning > > > > $100 would (and it's not just about the non-linearity of the > > > > value of money, but it may be an endowment effect). So in > > > > circumstances where good and bad things are both likely to > > > > happen relatively frequently I try to "smooth out" the > > > > frequency by checking less often. > > > > > > > > On Fri, 26 Jan 2024 at 07:52, Huda Masood via Silklist > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Tell me then, in what other areas of your life have you > > > > > applied the new learnings with money? > > > > > > > > > > I find the human relationship with money extraordinarily > > > > > interesting. My current social experiment is asking how much > > > > > could I pay them to take a 3 minute cold shower every day, > > > > > for a whole year. No hot water before or after. > > > > > > > > > > I’ve had no takers so far. Everyone wriggles out with some > > > > > condition or the other. No amount of money is incentive > > > > > enough. > > > > > > > > > > But they’d happily do it if family was in danger or they > > > > > could work half time for the same pay. > > > > > > > > > > I find that very telling. > > > > > > > > > > Huda Masood > > > > > +91 9886796967 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 at 18:27, Christopher A Kantarjiev via > > > > > Silklist <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On 1/24/24 10:16 PM, Udhay Shankar N via Silklist wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very interesting thought. The most thought-provoking part > > > > > > is "changing > > > > > > > your mental model" which resonated with me, because the > > > > > > mental model > > > > > > > which causes this to be an issue in the first place is > > > > > > "Am I being taken > > > > > > > advantage of?" (which is completely different from "Can I > > > > > > afford this?" > > > > > > > which requires a separate thread, I think.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes ... I grew up in a household where my father tracked > > > > > > every penny of > > > > > > expenses and basically invented a double-entry bookkeeping > > > > > > system so he > > > > > > could resolve his cash accounts Sunday night. I guess it > > > > > > was "fun" for > > > > > > him, but hell for everyone else when he wandered the house > > > > > > saying "where > > > > > > did I spent twelve cents?". > > > > > > > > > > > > It came both from a history of not having enough (he lived > > > > > > through WWII > > > > > > in Germany) and a fear of being taken advantage of ... > > > > > > which I, somewhat > > > > > > unfortunately, inherited. > > > > > > > > > > > > Those two things were very intertwined in my attitude > > > > > > towards money, and > > > > > > this experience was a big step in learning to let go of > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > >
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