I take exception to this characterization. Electricity in a metal conductor moves at the speed of light.
You are opening a can of worms talking about the speed of flow of actual electrons or charges... Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: M. G. Devour [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 10:37 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: CS>Thinking about current flow: for Neville > > Dear Neville, > > You write: > > > [The actual linear velocity of the electrons within the wire is > > > proportional to the current: Zero with the switch off, > and limited > > > by ohm's law, ie. total circuit resistance and voltage, when on.] > > > > As a simple example...the higher the current, the quicker > the 'flow', > > (forgetting ohms law for the moment)... yes? > > The higher the voltage or lower the resistance, then yes, the > current will be higher, which means the electrons are moving > faster in the wire. Any given electron will be scooting along > the wire at a higher velocity, literally calculable in some > meters per second. Amperage is actually a measure of the > number of charge carriers (electrons in this > case) that flow past a fixed point in a unit of time. > > > > [As it turns out the *convention* of current flow from > plus to minus > > > was created before they figured out what was actually > carrying the > > > current, and stuck, as tradition often does.] > > > > OK, now we come to the better bit. Traditional thinking, (of old > > perhaps), supposes that 'something moves, or travels' in a > particular > > fashion...up and down, left to right, right to left, over > and under, > > plus to minus...and so it was 'supposed' this was the case with > > electricity 'moving or travelling' from positive to negative or > > negative to positive... yes? Sorry, I sort of can't > explain that any > > better.<g> Electricity being an unknown entity if you like. > > I think it goes all the way back to some of the earliest > experimenters with electricity, like Volta, maybe... I think > he was the first to build a "battery" using acid and > dissimilar metals. I think he just arbitrarily picked one > pole and called it "positive" and *postulated* or assumed a > "positive" current flowing from it to the negative pole... > Not knowing at the time that the actual carriers were > electrons flowing in the opposite direction. > > So, conventional "current" measures a hypothetical positive > charge carrier moving from the positive terminal to the > negative. In most situations, the *real* current is the flow > of electrons in the opposite direction. > > If you break a circuit and hook the positive (red) lead of > your ammeter to the side closest to the positive supply > terminal and the negative lead to the other, then the current > that you read on the display should be a positive number. > Reverse the meter leads and you should get a minus sign in > front of the same number. > > > [Of course, there are materials other than metals that can carry > > > current, including semiconductors like they make transistors, > > > diodes, and integrated circuits with, and, as in our > case, water in > > > an electrolysis cell.] > > > > Now, by this I assume you are referring to current > 'travelling' from a > > starting point, on one end of a circuit board as an example, and > > 'travelling' along the 'circuits' to the other end of the board, > > 'directional' if you like...yes? > > Well, on any given circuit board conductors go all over so > the geometry is seldom that simple, but if you trace the flow > along the conductors, through various components, from the > positive supply connection to the negative, you'll be moving > opposite to the flow of electrons, but > *with* the "conventional" current. > > > > [Now, in water, you may actually have both electrons > flowing *and* > > > atoms or molecules of the solvent (water) or solutes (silver or > > > salt, or > > > whatever) flowing in different directions...] > > > > Now don't anyone freak out here but in my language this would > > be...'electricity travelling' between the two electrodes, but in > > combination with silver, water molecules and any impurities > which may > > be in the water which would be affected by the 'electricity', and > > these molecules etc would be 'drifting' in the water...yes? > Stay with > > me here if you can, I'll get proper terminologies down > better later on. > > Yep, that sounds about right... > > I think really pure distilled water won't carry much current > at all, so there's very little electron flow in the fluid as > there is in metals... > I think what has to happen is you have to wait for the tiny > fraction of water molecules that spontaneously dissociates > into H+ and OH- ions under normal conditions to provide the > "seed" so to speak, for more current to flow later as silver > gradually gets into the water and provides more charge carriers. > > Only charged particles will move when you put a voltage > across the cell. Uncharged particles, like molecules of > sugar, for instance, are not a part of current flow. Ions only! > > > > Electrons will still flow from your battery's negative terminal, > > > through the wire to the negative electrode, through the water to > > > your positive electrode, then back through the wire to > the battery > > > positive terminal. > > > > Yes, I know what's happening there now, but now we are talking of > > 'direction' again, from negative to positive. This was my > suggestion > > some time ago when I said I had read that 'electricity', or > 'current', > > is 'pushed' so to speak, out from the negative and returned through > > the positive. See what I mean? > > Yep, the actual *things* that flow in this case are electrons > that move from negative to positive through your circuit. > > "Conventional" current happens to be in the opposite > direction of electron flow, thanks to dead white guys > hundreds of years ago. <grin> > > > Or is it that we don't use the 'positive and negative' terminology > > when water is the electrical current transfer > medium...circuit boards > > require 'direction' if you like whereas water just 'completes' a > > circuit with no particular 'direction'. > > Nope, the polarity is just as important in the water, but you > have to recognize that you might have different types of > charge carriers: free electrons, positive ions, negative ions. > > Electrons and negative ions will move toward the positive > terminal, and positive ions will move toward the negative > terminal. Switch the wires and the stuff will all turn around > and move in the opposite direction through the water. > > > Like my analogy of a stop valve in the clock circle, or water pipe > > circle, the current is apparent when the valve is opened, but not > > apparent when the valve is closed...hence, the positive > and/or negative > > terminology is not used in this case...yes? Be patient! > > Well, if you turn off the voltage by flipping a switch, for > instance, there *is* no voltage applied to the rest of the > circuit and no current will flow. In that sense, polarity is > irrelevant. But as soon as you turn on the switch, your > voltage supply is re-connected and current will flow, and > follow all the normal rules for polarity and direction. > > Be well, > > Mike D. > > [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] > [[email protected] ] > [Speaking only for myself... ] > > > -- > The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. > > Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org > > To post, address your message to: [email protected] > > Address Off-Topic messages to: [email protected] > > The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... > > List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]> > > >
