Norton, Steve wrote:
Marshall,
As always, I appreciate your comments and correction of my errors. And
my errors are numerous.I did some more searching. There is little
research data on metallic silver that I could find except for inhaled
silver which would probably be converted to silver ions before
assimilation into the bloodstream.
The lungs actually secrete H2O2 to break down silver particles in the
lungs, which makes silver oxide and silver hydroxide, which is absorbed
into the blood stream and most likely quickly converted to silver chloride.
I found a lot of web pages that state
that colloidal silver is removed by the kidneys but could find no
supporting studies.
I did find the following reference to a JAMA article:
"Colloidal silver and other similar substances have been proved to be
removed from the blood by the. Kupffer cells in the liver. ...
jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/reprint/84/13/939.pdf"
Unfortunately this article is for subscribers only. Can you check and
make sure they are really talking about colloidal silver? I often find
that when one searches deeper in many articles that they are calling
many things colloidal silver, including salts and MSP.
And this put out by Stephen Quinto:
"Stable, pure, and fine silver particles are more likely to be
eliminated first through bile and then secondly through normal kidney
excretion"
http://www.natural-immunogenics.com/pdf/SS-White%20Technical%20Paper%200
02-SafetyInformation-01-23-033.pdf
There are a number of studies supporting particle removal by Kupffer
cells in the liver in general but not specific to silver.
The problem is, are any of the references supported by good solid
evidence? My theory could certainly be wrong, but with the facts and
what I believe to be true seems to fit better than other theories. I
wish we could find some really good tests that can pull it all
together. There was a debate in 2001 between Stuart and Frank on this
very list which concerned this to some extent, where Frank was
supporting a chloride hypothesis and Stuart was supporting a ammonia
complex hypothesis. That an be found at
http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/silver.html but I cannot say it really
adds any light to this.
Marshall
Can you point me to something supporting colloidal silver removal by the
kidneys?
Thanks,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:54 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Silver/Autism/Safety
But when added to the data fro Frank Key that after ingesting CS, there
is no trace of silver ions in the blood, I believe your analysis is
incorrect. I believe that silver ions are primarily removed by the
liver, not the kidneys. Colloidal silver is removed by the kidneys.
Thus if you take silver compounds, there is no colloidal component, and
99% is removed by the liver. If you take colloidal silver the ionic
silver portion that makes it into the blood plates out onto the
colloidal particles ( the normal well known photographic development
process ), leaving no ionic silver to be measured in the blood, but
producing 100% colloid in the blood. Then this is removed by the
kidneys. If you assume that about 80% of the silver is absorbed into
the blood stream, that leaves about 20% remaining in the digestive
tract, which is then eventually eliminated in the feces.
Marshall
Norton, Steve wrote:
My opinion is not just based on a simplistic assumption as you have
stated. It is actually based on the test results posted at:
http://www.silvermedicine.org/altmanstudy.html
Those test results are striking in one important way. If you take a
look at the scientific studies that have measured silver excretion,
those studies show that about 99% of silver is excreted through the
feces and 1% through the urine. However, none of those studies used
EIS as the silver source.
But if you look at the Roger Altman test where EIS was used, roughly
79% of the silver was excreted in the urine and 21% in the feces. So
the question you have to ask is why the extreme difference in
excretion paths for EIS vs. other forms of ingested silver? The
primary difference in EIS as the silver source and other silver
sources is the silver ions in the EIS. Now note that the amount of
silver excreted in the urine is about what you might expect as the
ionic portion of the EIS. I think it is a reasonable assumption that
it is the ionic silver that is excreting in the urine.
The next question is why? Now I admit that this next leap of logic is
open to other possibilities. But I think it is either because silver
chloride is processed out through the kidneys same as the body would
excrete excess sodium chloride or potassium chloride. Or it could be
because the silver chloride is removed by the kidneys because it is in
the form of insoluble silver chloride particles due to the low
solubility of silver chloride in water.
While one may question whether silver ions and HCl form AgCl in the
stomach, I think that it is the highest probability reaction and
speculating on some other unknown conclusion is the unlikely solution.
Whatever the source of the silver in the urine, one other interesting
point is that it must be formed in the body before assimilation into
the blood and remains unchanged until excretion. If it was formed
while in the bloodstream then you would expect to see other sources of
silver, especially metallic silver, also form the same compound. But
they do not because for other sources of silver less than 1% of the
silver is excreted in the urine.
- Steve N
-----Original Message-----
From: Malcolm [mailto:s...@asis.com]
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:19 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Silver/Autism/Safety
YES!
Edzackly. It's way too simplistic to assume that because we can (do)
form silver chloride from ionic or even micro-particulate EIS silver
in a jar, that that is what is happening in the mammal stomach, or
blood, or lymph. How silver is bound, or transported in living tissue
is largely unknown; how ANY metal is moved about inside us, why
certain metals concentrate in certain tissues - all are questions with
poorly defined answers.
Take care,
Malcolm
On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 08:32 -0400, Ode Coyote wrote:
Natural Immunogenics did "test tube" tests...probably "borrowed" from
the University of Utah study.
Frank Key, the maker of MesoSilver tested for silver ions in the
blood after using ionic silver using an ion selective probe and found
none.
However, he does have a means to determine total silver content in
blood samples and DIDN'T say that there was no silver, or what form
it
was or wasn't in.
He also doesn't say that ionic silver doesn't work, just that it's
the particle portion that does the job. [Which implies that he found
particles..IF.. he looked and found anything]
Logically, given no ions, if it was silver chloride, saying so would
promote his product.
If it was pure silver particles, it wouldn't.
..proving a negative isn't possible, so he really is saying
...*nothing* ...and everything said ABOUT that nothing is
speculation.
We know what happens to ions in a test tube, but not in the bodies
intelligent chemical soup along with metallo transport proteins and
such.
A theory does exists [unproven] that ions and particles work
together to make *particles* in the blood, out of ions.
ANY ion exchange route is "possible".
Also that "particles" are subject to ionization.
"Where" Silver Chloride can form, other than in a test tube that
excludes myriads of other factors, is up in the air.
Do "particles" ionize to kill germs? [ probably so ]
Virtually any silver compound will kill germs, some better than
others in a given environment.
But what about that "intelligent soup" environment ?
What works...works.
That's ALL we "know".
Ode
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