Mike Monett wrote: > Re: CS>FerroFluids > From: Marshall Dudley > Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:46:44 > > > I still don't know how you can say this. > > I follow the ideal, Marshall, of Mike Devour, who took over the > Silver Lists "to promote and encourage discussions on colloidal > silver, to identify and counter the hype, myths and propaganda that > surround the subject of Colloidal Silver, and to study the art and > science of Colloidal Silver production, testing, and use, so > newcomers and experienced members alike will have the widest > possible range of choices with reasonable certainty of success and > minimum cost." > > Unlike you, Marshall, I have no commercial interest in the > production of colloidal silver, and I have no preconceived notions > of how the cs process works. I don't really care - I'm just > interested in making the best cs possible. But in order to do so, I > must first understand it. >
That is a slap in the face, and totally untrue. First I promote people making it themselves with their own generators. I do not sell generators. I have no personal financial interest in people making their own, I am on this list to help people. I spend a lot of my time doing research and posting for one reason only, to help others. I do sell it to those who want to not make it themselves, but that is as service, I make virtually nothing on it, and when people purchase large amounts of it I always tell them how to make it themselves.. > > As we age, our immune system starts to degrade, and the 10 ppm cs > from the typical 3 nines may not work as well as it did. For > example, Sol just went through a 4-week cold that her cs didn't > touch, and she is now busy making stronger cs. I expect to see more > of this phenomenon as the group ages. You may be next. > > Most people do not die of old age. They get an infection that their > immune system cannot handle, and the toxins overwhelm the body > functions. Superman just died of bedsores. My mother is getting > older, and her unusually good health is starting to fade. I do not > want to see her die of a plain cold. > > We also face extremely dangerous viruses such as SARS or West Nile, > and doctors say the next major epidemic is only a matter of time. > Medical science has no answer, except to give steroids that turn > human bones into peanut butter. I believe cs is our only hope, but > 10 ppm probably won't work for someone who is already weakened by > infections. > > Due to the shortsighted use of antibiotics, our environment now has > extremely dangerous antibiotic-resistant bacteria, such as ecoli, > tuberculosis, streptococcus, and plain staf bacteria that can turn > into necrotizing fasciitis (flesh-eating bacteria). It is a rare > infection but debilitating or lethal to the victims. > > Cassi Moore is a beautiful young lady who turned into a tragic > example of the brutal stupidity of doctors who can inflict extreme > harm while treating something they know nothing about, and have no > resources to fight back. Her experience should be part of your > knowledge of the current state of medical science. > > Warning: the following link contains descriptions and photos of > human suffering that you may wish you never saw. > > http://www.nnff.org/survivors/cassi_moore/cassi.htm > > I believe high-ppm cs could influence the outcome of these > infections, if given in time. But it must be available when it is > needed, and it must be the best ionic cs we can make. Marv's > experiment described below shows that particulate cs is simply not > effective. Silver ions are the only thing that works against > bacteria and viruses. > > Marv Hacker's milk tests showed there was something seriously wrong > with the understanding of how particulate cs kills bacteria. It > simply doesn't work: I am at a loss as to why this attack on me. For the most part I agree with most of everything you have written above. And your comments about what I sell makes no sense, it is over 80% ionic anyway. As far as the the milk test below, it is irrelevant, except for preserving milk. The test shows quite well that ionic silver preserves milk better than colloidal in the test with whatever ppms were used, but there are two problems. First there is no indication of the ppm strengths of the two products. A milk test is a sum greater or less than zero test, and any slight difference in the strength of the two could make significant differences in the outcome. What was the ppm of the two? If they were different, then differing amounts of each should have been used to make the test valid. Secondly, to make the test valid for internal use, one would have to add a few drops of HCl, or at least sodium chloride to both of the silvers solutions since we know that ionic silver immediately becomes silver chloride when it hits the stomach. Otherwise the test results do not apply to internal use, but could to external use. Also, I have never said that the ionic part is not effective. I have said that it is effective for promoting healing due to it being able to cause dedifferentiating of injured cells, and I have gone through the analysis of how it reaches the blood stream and eventually becomes particulate silver in the blood stream several times. So it is quite possible that the ionic silver portion of EIS is more effective than the colloidal portion, if for no other reason than there is 5 to 10 times as much of it. What I take issue with is your statement that the colloidal portion of silver in EIS is silver oxide, although that statement is impossible since silver oxide dissolves in water, and once saturation is reached it forms a PRECIPITATE of silver oxide that falls out of solution in a very short time. You comments about me selling EIS having an effect on what I am writing when I try to correct your outlandish comments are nothing but a paper tiger and an attack on my credibility that is totally unfounded. Marshall > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Re: CS>CS in the fridge? > From: Marv Hacker > Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 07:30:32 > http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60724.html > > Hi, Jason, > > The only objective evidence that I have, is in support of your > position that Ionic Silver has the greater pathogen-killing power > (outside of the body). > > I did the "Milk Test", comparing a product containing mostly Ionic > Silver with one that is mostly sub-nanometer Silver Particles, with > an unadulterated sample. Placing four liquid ounces of milk > (pasteurized and homogenized, where the "use by" date was more that > a week into the future) from the same carton into three glasses, > then adding a teaspoon from each of the two Silver products into two > different glasses. > > After four days: > > the untreated glass contained a solidified sour (stinky) > substance. > > the glass treated with the mostly-Particulate Silver product was > partially solidified, and had some odor. > > the glass treated with the mostly-Ionic Silver product was liquid, > and there was no bad smell. > > To me, this indicates that Silver Ions are better at preserving milk > than Silver Particles. It also suggests, to me, that Ionic Silver > would have more "pathogen-killing power" than the Particulate Silver > product, when used outside the human body (topically). > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Another example, someone with a compromised immune system, such as > myself and many others on the list, 10 ppm cs simply won't work > anymore. In my case, mold toxins have demolished my body's ability > to identify and properly respond to invaders, and it attacks the > wrong things. I need cs to survive infections and to help repair the > damage my system inflicts. I could not live without it. But the 3 > nines stuff is useless for me. It doesn't work anymore. > > Some time earlier, I undertook studies to discover the process > behind colloidal silver, and I made many innovative and useful > experiments which are now recorded in the Silver archives. > > Among these are the ULVDV posts, the importance of current density > at the electrodes, the "Making Ions Visible" posts, the "Constant > Current Generator with High Voltage Compliance", the Godzilla cs > generator, the "High PPM Measurements", the Faraday equations, the > Mercury equation solver, understanding the Nernst Diffusion layer, > the basic cs equations, etc. I believe my contributions to the > current understanding of the cs process are well recognized. > > These studies led to a basic understanding of the cs process. The > following is a copy of previous posts which you have read: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > The particles are various forms of oxides and are generated in the > Nernst diffusion layer next to the electrodes. Here are the basic > equations: > > At the anode, a silver atom gives up an electron to become an ion. > > Ag(s) - e --> Ag(+) > > At the cathode, water dissociates and hydrogen ions accept electrons > to form hydrogen gas: > > H2O --> H(+) + OH(-) > > 2H(+) + 2e --> H2(g) > > So for every silver ion, one hydroxyl ion is produced. > > The ions diffuse throughout the solution, mainly by convection > currents. I posted two experiments earlier that show how to make > these ions visible: > > CS> Making Ions Visible > http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61491.html > > Re: CS> Making Ions Visible > http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61527.html > > The significance of these experiments is that the two ion clouds > passed through each other without combining to form oxides. The > reason is the ions have to be very close to each other and headed > almost directly towards each other before they will combine. This > requires a very high density of ions to give a reasonable > probability they will combine. The only place this occurs is in the > Nernst Diffusion layer close to each electrode. > > When the ion concentration of both species is high enough, the > silver ions combine with the hydroxyl ions to form silver oxides. > There are at least two paths: > > Path #1: > > One silver ion combines with one hydroxyl ion to form silver > hydroxide: > > Ag(+) + OH(-) --> AgOH (silver hydroxide) > > The silver hydroxide dissociates to form silver oxide particles: > > 2AgOH --> Ag2O + H2O (silver oxide) > > Path #2: > > Two silver ions combine with two hydroxyl ions to form silver oxide: > > 2Ag(+) + 2OH(-) --> Ag2O + H2O > > This shows why high current density produces more oxide content. The > Nernst diffusion layer is more concentrated at high current density. > > It also shows why reversing electrode polarity and using AC instead > of DC produces so much oxide. When the polarity reverses, the Nernst > diffusion layer already has a high concentration of the opposite > species, so oxide formation begins immediately. > > When you add H2O2 to the resulting solution, some of the oxide is > converted back to ions: > > Ag2O + H2O2 --> 2Ag(+) + O2 + H2O > > 2AgOH + H2O2 --> 2Ag(+) + O2 + 2H2O > > This increases the effectiveness since more silver ions are > available to kill bugs. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Once a silver atom gives up an electron and becomes an ion, it can't > get it back. Electrons do not flow in water. > > Marshall, unless you can provide an equation that shows how a silver > ion can become a neutral atom in a solution that contains only > distilled water plus silver and hydroxyl ions, there is no question > of the particles being the various forms of silver oxides described > above. > > If you have a different explanation, Marshall, please give us the > equations to support your claims. Without your equations, there can > be no question of the particles being silver oxide as I describe > above. > > Here is the rest of your post: > > > The data contradicts it. > > You provide no equations. Without them any talk is wishful thinking. > > > Silver oxide dissolves in water, that means there are no > > particles, so how can the particles of anything be silver oxide, > > it would be a solution? > > I believe your chem book solubility figures are wrong. > > > If you exceed the solubility limit of silver oxide then it will > > form a tan colored precipitate, which precipitates out in a matter > > of hours, > > Silver oxide is a dark black substance that forms on the electrodes > within seconds of exceeding the local Nernst limit of current > density. > > > so how can particles that last for years be silver oxide. > > Non sequitur. Silver oxide lasts for years in your clock battery. > > > Simple fact is that they cannot. Also as the particles get bigger > > they absorb in the light spectrum exactly as documents indicate > > they should vs size, which proves that they are silver particles. > > Marshall, wishing they were silver does not make it so. > > Tyndall works with any particle, including oxides. Just because you > get a Tyndall response, it doesn't mean the particles are silver. > They could be ordinary room dust. > > Marshall, the particle wars are over. They are oxides. Ions rule. > > Best Wishes, > > Mike Monett > > -- > The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. > > Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org > > To post, address your message to: [email protected] > Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > Address Off-Topic messages to: [email protected] > OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html > > List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]>
