Its fun to watch you guys argue over each others mental qualiifications and the requirement for therapy
I have been in therapy for over 12 years - something to do with Nam and all the killing and a continued career in death working plane crashes homicide child abuse etc.as a forensic specialist. I don't think its a bad thing because we can get off track and loose ourselves in the melee of life. Perhaps those of us who go overboard to perpetuate life are the ones who need to spend a little more time on the couch to onceagain realize that trying to stay healty and alive for God knows how long is truely working against nature, We we never supposed to live forever and all these little bugs and nasty things, well they have to eat too to survive. Man has opted out of the food chain and now refuses to allow the worms to get him/her after death through the use of preservatives. It's not natural if you take a real hard look at it. On the otherhand I do love the relief CS gives me from the bugs and I have no intention of letting them make me feel like crap if I can stop them. But given all the changes in the world and the little critters are geyying stronger each day there will come a time when all of this is futile. The earth is a mutual eating society. It's the way things work. Nice to be outside the loop but make no mistake someday the bugs are going to get you regardless of how many chemicals you suck in. Hope this doesn't ruffle anyones feathers. Just consider the fact that when you start throwing out topics like thearapy there are those of us out here with major experience in that realm and more in philosopy who are quite willing to step in and ask you if thats really where you want to go. Peace Steve Ellsworth ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Holmes" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 7:09 PM Subject: RE: CS> garnet needs therapy > Most therapists I have known need therapy. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Garnet [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 6:01 AM > To: Silver List > Subject: Re: CS> garnet needs therapy > > Who needs therapy? > > > On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 20:52, name withheld wrote: > > hi > > i think garnet should see a therapist for emotional problems. > > > > garnet can have her say and nenah can have her say. > > > > but this argument is helping no one. > > > > > > > > On Nov 24, 2004, at 10:37 AM, Garnet wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 2004-11-24 at 00:43, Nenah Sylver wrote: > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Garnet" <[email protected]> > > >> To: "Silver List" <[email protected]> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:11 AM > > >> Subject: CS> > > >> > > >> > > >>> Toxic as defined in Stedman's Medical Dictionary means poisonous. > > >>> Poisonous is defined as injurious or dangerous to health. > > >> > > >> I know what poisonous means, Garnet. Ozone is not poisonous. > > > > > > That is a totally irresponsible statement in light of the many studies > > > documenting injurious effects of pure ozone. > > > > > > > > >> > > >>>> I have medical grade ozone equipment obtained from Plasmafire in > > >>>> Canada and > > >> use > > >>>> it for many purposes. When ozone is inhaled through olive oil (or > > >>>> tea tree > > >> and > > >>>> other essential oils), an entirely new compound is created. > > >> > > >>> Do you know what that compound is? If not how do you know if it is > > >>> toxic? Not all toxic effects are immediately apparent. Olive Oil is > > >>> often not pure and may contain hexane or lye. How do you know that > > >>> the > > >>> olive oil you are using is actually pure -- do you have it assayed, > > >>> do > > >>> you know batch numbers in case there is a recall? Tee Tree oil if it > > >>> is > > >>> an inferior grade can contain toxic compounds -- again do you use > > >>> assayed numbered batches? > > >> > > >> This is a spurious argument. If I spent my time getting substances > > >> assayed, I > > >> wouldn't be living. I am satisfied that the substances I'm using with > > >> ozone are > > >> pure. > > >> > > > > > > That is an often used and very convenient evasion Nenah, but simply > > > what > > > I expect of those in your position to make money by putting a > > > disinformation spin on their products. > > > > > >> > > >>> Ozone may scavenge toxins but it also produces toxins. What are the > > >>> amounts that you consider proper Nenah. Do you even know the ppm of > > >>> the > > >>> treatments you administer? Or what blood levels they produce? If not > > >>> then you are treading on very risky ground. > > >> > > >> There are settings on my units. I don't have the ppm conversion chart > > >> handy at > > >> the moment. > > > > > > See above. > > > > > >> > > >>>> The myth that ozone is toxic is based on studies done over 50 years > > >>>> ago > > >> > > >>> Absolutely not true Nenah, there are many studies since the 50's that > > >>> demonstrate toxic effects of pure ozone. See this is what I mean by > > >>> practitioners who take someone else's word for the safety of a > > >>> practice > > >>> without actually doing their own checking -- you have simply > > >>> demonstrated my point very well. > > >> > > >> And so I have medical references for the opposite. What does that > > >> prove? It > > >> proves that you follow your sources and I follow mine. I use ozone > > >> and get > > >> positive results and you do not use it because you follow your > > >> sources. > > >> > > > > > > It proves that the research you base your statements on is not > > > supported > > > by a consensus of the world's experts. Are your references published in > > > peer reviewed journals? That is the difference between bona fide > > > studies > > > and simple publications. The sources one chooses to follow speaks to > > > the > > > quality and level of excellence and integrity one embodies. > > > > > > > > >> > > >>> It was the ozone itself. Here is another reference that you can find > > >>> in > > >>> most medical libraries and many public libraries. What are the > > >>> citations > > >>> in your new book Nenah. I would certainly like to see their data! Can > > >>> you provide those references please? > > >> > > >> I will provide ONE reference here. There are more in my book. > > >> www.thefinchleyclinic.co.uk/nojavascript/therapies/ozone/safe.htm > > > > > > This article is not referenced and provides no data. It is worthless. > > > > > > It states:"Interestingly the opponents Ozone therapy are in my > > > experience always people or organisations who either have not actually > > > investigated the merits of the therapy, or who have a vested interest > > > in > > > suppressing the therapy. As Anthony D'Angelo put it: -"The people who > > > oppose your ideas are inevitably those who represent the established > > > order that your ideas will upset." > > > > > > Totally wrong in my case. I have investigated the therapy for over 7 > > > years. I have no vested interest. And I am certainly not what anyone > > > would label as establishment by any stretch of the imagination. > > > > > > Lung damage has been documented both acute and chronic. Again I have > > > not > > > said Ozone is not beneficial, just that it is risky and that the > > > practioners must be well trained and able to verify what they are > > > actually adminstering. > > > > > >> > > >> > > >>> The copyright date 2001 indicates it is quite up to date. The > > >>> information is meticulously reviewed by a world renowed board of > > >>> editors > > >>> and specialists in their respective fields. This is the 10th edition > > >>> of > > >>> this standard reference work published over the past 64 years. > > >> > > >> > > >> Many "experts" who are considered "standard" reading in their field > > >> say that > > >> colloidal silver is bad for you but that doesn't make them right. > > > > > > The editors of Goodman and Gillmans are not self-appointed experts > > > Nenah. They are world renowned and at the top of their respective > > > fields. Has nothing to do with the disinformation spread by a few about > > > CS. > > > > > >> > > >> > > >>>> Ozone must be used properly and in the right concentrations. Of > > >>>> course it > > >> will > > >>>> irritate your lungs if it's at too high a concentration -- but that > > >>>> doesn't > > >> mean > > >>>> ozone is toxic. > > >> > > >>> Yes actually it does mean that ozone is toxic because the definition > > >>> of > > >>> toxic is injurious to health. > > >> > > >> > > >> Spurious. My point above about hydrochloric acid still stands. You > > >> can take > > >> water. People need water to live but too much will kill you. It also > > >> matters > > >> whether you drink it or put your face under it. > > > > > > Your argument is circular Nenah. A clear indication of one that is not > > > able to use critical analysis and logic to support a position. > > > > > >> > > >> > > >>>> Ozone has proven tremendously healing for me and for many, many > > >>>> others with > > >> whom > > >>>> I have personal contact. I urge the more open minded of you to see > > >>>> for > > >> yourself > > >>>> what this amazing therapy can do. For more information, you can > > >>>> join the > > >> Oxyplus > > >>>> list at Yahoo. > > >> > > >>> My posts on this list speak for my open minded nature. But open > > >>> minded > > >>> does not mean unquestioning or unable to discern truth or validity. I > > >>> never said that ozone was without therapeutic benefit. > > >>> > > >>> Resorting to spin and disinformation to sell or defend a practice is > > >>> however an indication of being closed minded -- close to the truth. > > >>> An > > >>> inability to discern safety in therapeutics is a very dangerous > > >>> quality > > >>> for anyone particularly a health care practitioner, author or > > >>> consultant. > > >> > > >>> But as usual when I refute the erroneous information you post Nenah > > >>> you > > >>> will disappear from the list for a period of time until you presume > > >>> the > > >>> list has forgotten your poorly researched and misleading information, > > >>> also known in the vernacular as "spin". But you see these are the > > >>> exact > > >>> types of posts that I do not forget and that give alternative > > >>> medicine > > >>> practioners a bad name. > > >> > > >> > > >> You are making an assumption as to why I might not reply to your > > >> posts after a > > >> point. I simply choose not to put more energy than necessary into > > >> what appears > > >> to me to be a non-productive use of my time and energy. I'm simply > > >> putting out > > >> that ozone therapy is a wonderful adjunct to health, just like > > >> colloidal silver > > >> is; and if people want to explore that based on my post, that's their > > >> choice. I > > >> have no investment one way or the other. > > >> > > >> I am aware of arguments pro and con for ozone, and have made my > > >> choice based on > > >> (1) people's successes, and (2) my own empirical evidence. My own > > >> experience is > > >> worth something to me. > > > > > > Have you followed those people long term? What type of tests have you > > > done to determine there was no damage done? Empirical evidence is > > > helpful but it is not repeatable and verifiable, two requirements of > > > well founded scientific data. > > > > > > I have not disparged personal experience -- in fact I think it is quite > > > valuable. As I have stated about Ozone, but the fact remains that is is > > > risky and does have toxic effects. Not recognizing the limitations of a > > > therapy is irresponsible and indicates someone who can not be trusted > > > to > > > have the best interest of their clients at heart. Profit and image are > > > the stock and trade of this type of practitioner. We find them in both > > > alternative and traditional medicine, indeed in many walks of life. > > > > > > They are often the most charming people well practices in the art of > > > distraction and able to spin the most amazing tales that confound the > > > critical thinking abilities of even the best minds. But their webs are > > > gossamer and fall apart under scrutiny. > > > > > > BTW Nenah WHERE is your PHd from? Did it come from an accredited > > > university? Lack of an answer here is an answer. > > > > > >> > > >> > > >>> I might also point out that I do not sell anything, no products, no > > >>> books, my consultations on this list are offered freely to all. I > > >>> have > > >>> no axe to grind or sale to make. I am interested in full disclosure > > >>> and > > >>> public access to truth. > > >>> > > >>> Garnet > > >> > > >> > > >> I have no axe to grind either. Again, if you are interested in > > >> learning more > > >> about ozone and why a "spin" has been put on it, you might consider > > >> joining > > >> Oxyplus or writing to Saul Pressman at Oxyplus. He also has a free > > >> book, The > > >> Story of Ozone, which he's happy to send to anyone who asks. > > > > > > I have learned all I need to know about ozone in the past 7 years I > > > have > > > been actively reseraching its potential for treating degenerative > > > disease. My criteria are that something has to be number one safe, > > > affordable and available. You see Nenah most of the truly ill people in > > > the world have very little money, time, energy or expertise. I have > > > been > > > on the Oxyplus List previously and did not find the information > > > credible, anecdotal information is not that useful for my purposes as > > > stated above. > > > > > > Before Mike has a hissy fit I will direct further responses to the OT > > > list. See ya there unless you are simply too busy with more important > > > things than the safety of your clients and the interest of full > > > disclosure to participate in a real discussion. > > > > > > Garnet > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. > > > > > > Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org > > > > > > To post, address your message to: [email protected] > > > Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > > > > > Address Off-Topic messages to: [email protected] > > > OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html > > > > > > List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]> > > > > > > > >
